Everton announce start date for new stadium construction

Greg O'Keefe has tweeted the following which shows that Moshiri is fully committed to his plans for the new stadium - the first phase at least
First phase of construction will be funded directly by Farhad Moshiri. The club are edging closer to announcing their funding deal for the second phase, construction of stadium proper, with their aim still to be complete if possible by 2024/25

Are they bringing spades?

No one will believe it until they see a man with a spade…..

And why wait a month, this delay has Kenwright written all over it….

Jesus ffs!

Does anyone else think it's crazy to build a massive stadium that will house 53,000+ on basically fill?

I mean, the settling in a decade could cause serious structural issues, no?

I dunno. I'm sure everything's been taken into account by engineers and whatnot. I'm just a fan of building something heavy over solid ground, call me nuts.

It will be gorgeous, I just hope it doesn't end up in 25 years time looking like the Leaning Tower of Pisa.

I have just drove past and there is quite a bit of activity going on, but wait they might find a unexploded bomb or 100 million tons of asbestos seriously people its defo happening by the time it is built raffa will be only a distant memory and breath.

"And why wait a month, this delay has Kenwright written all over it"

We have waited 20 odd years already. I doubt 26 more days will make any difference. Personally I'm very pleased that they are finally starting work.

Hopefully this should mean the development costs incurred so far, c.£50M can be capitalised and the loss reduced.

Every little helps!

Jamie#3 we built London city airport on filled in docks, the terminal and aprons sit on what was once water.

It's good news but the club still looks as if it trying to secure funding for the actual stadium element of the project, when and if they secure that financial support will be the time that we can all breathe a sigh of relief and truly celebrate and look forward to watching Everton FC play in its new ground.

Jamie, just about any structure can be built to be stable and resist settlement today, in almost any ground. We can even build artificial islands in the sea and put huge tower blocks or airports on them. Mostly a matter of cost.

You're right that it's better to start favourably (like a rock bed for example) if possible. Specialized foundations are massively expensive so the main concern is not flirting with danger by aiming for economies.

Anyway, if it sinks they can turn it into a giant underground car park and just build a new stadium on top :)

I'll be more interested in the final cost, which will be a lot higher than forecasts we've seen so far.

Iain - snap!

Michael, is the site/area still open, not fenced? I was thinking of going for a snoop around next week if I can fit it in.

I read somewhere in the last few days that the cost might be approaching £750m as of now, not certain where I saw it or how reliable the person was who wrote it, but it's not beyond reason that it will probably be quite close to a £1bn by the time it's finally constructed. Rarely do these massive projects come in on time and on the original budget.

Iain -

I had no idea the airport at London was built on fill! Amazing when you consider it. Calms my fears a bit.

Will -

They can flirt with economies all they want, AFTER the base has been drained, poured, compacted, compacted again, and then compacted again just for shits and giggles!

Barry - agreed.

Barry -

Everything is increasing in price. There's no way this project is coming in on budget. I don't know about over there, but just the price of wood alone has skyrocketed here in the States. Everything is increasing in price.

This is NOT a covid, political statement, but rather economic fact: you can't shut down an economy without consequences, never mind for near a year. Prices will increase as companies look to either survive or recoup losses.

No way this project comes in on budget. Unless they scrimp on the fill! Then we'll want to defend the east end of the stadium second half, so we're running slightly downhill towards the west to finish off the game! If the pitch runs north to south, simply replace directionals to achieve the point of that last sentence. 😜

Rafa’s buzzing!

Jamie, it’s the perfect metaphor for their management style. Top-heavy on appearance with some suspect ideas about foundation.

Great news

From 47s you can see footage of Bramley Moore Dock from 1896 as seen from the overhead railway journey to Princes Dock
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uc1QCgSuXQ0

I’ll be there at dinner time Monday 26th July - “can I mind yer spade mister?”

Crikey - didn’t take long for Rafa to put his foot down!

Filling in the dock is the perfect opportunity to do some much needed thinning out in the squad. Just hope we have the same contractors who worked on the Jimmy Hoffa freeway stateside. Couldn't come a day sooner for me.

Dear Lord. Never a day goes by without me being totally astounded by the sheer depth and variation of expertise across all topics from the wonderful and known core of persons on ToffeeWeb. From Football managers…..coaches…Football finance guru’s….Stadium Building Experts…Construction finance experts…whatever next?? We are the Blessed Club. The Blessed are amongst us. Best that RS🤩🤩

Chris (23) - Oh yes, on TW you’ll find the best football managers, physios, accountants, architects, engineers, financial advisors… the lot!

Why clubs take an age to recruit key personnel or agonise over major decisions when they could just pop over to TW, check what the boys (and girls) on here think and save time and money.

Michael and Lyndon should start pimping the site out to clubs that are looking for help.

Ian #21, yep, clearly Rafa is a guy who gets things done right out of the gate!

Any truth to the rumor that he and Messi were spotted at breakfast this morning at The Titanic? I expect an announcement on that this week.

John #22, hahahaha, that's great, but wasn't Hoffa rumored to reside under the end zone at Giants Stadium? Clearly there's a stadium construction technique there that needs looking into.

I am actually enthused that this forum encourages and displays some well informed although varied perspectives. Sometimes just taking it from the top means you're just taking it from the top.

Maybe you can take your grand kids there with their bucket and spades save going to New Brighton.

My bro has had the big burger stand on corner of Stanley park. Bill sort of promised him a patch on bmd so take it with a pinch when I say kenright out. He can hang on until he gets the nod. Although the word ring fenced was in the promised conversation.

Kevin, 19, that was great, thanks.

We could use that overhead railway when the stadium's finished.

Will,

I just had a shandy in the Bramley-Moore pub mate. Laing O'Rourke are getting the heavy machinery in place, they are one of the best civil engineering companies in the UK.

I am a bricklayer of 40 years and I have worked on million-pound private houses to small extensions for people I know and everything in-between we are in good hands there will be a lot of trucks bringing stone or "Type 1 MOT" to do the landfill and it will be compacted down with massive rollers.

It's just a normal day at work for civil companies like Laings, but first all the cabins will be going in and surveyors will be in first to set out. Then the water management will be done, then the infill of thousands of tons of MOT will be going in. It's just a straight-forward job really.

Watched an old tube video the other days of Liverpool circa 1880 ( might be the same one Kevin Molly is referring to ) and it shows men walking across of the tower block girders of the India buildings 200ft up with no harnesses, no boots, just normal shoes, flat caps, absolutely mental ! part of that video footage, done in colour btw shows the trains going past Bramley-Moore Dock with sailing ships docked in it and it got me thinking at the time, that every man and boy in that footage would have supported Everton as nobody else existed for many a mile. Happy days for everyone. Made up about the stadium, it's really going to happen. Waited a long time. Was at Goodison during the glory years and was lucky enough as a boy to see the white boots of little Alan Ball grace the turf, Labone et al. I hope I get to walk into the new stadium. It won't be Goodison and it won't smell like Goodison but it's high time. NSNO

Jamie, timber prices are now falling and some predictions they will crash completely by the end of the year. On a similar note hopefully our Russian metal connections will ensure lower than market rate prices.

Will yes.! Apparently even people at the time were saying 'why the hell are we getting rid of this'. Madness.

Mark (31) - Have you got a link to that video?

Was it The Docker’s Umbrella you could see in the background?

Michael, I have the feeling you are going to be the TW progress report guy as the build goes along!

Hey guys, have a look of the Time Team Special called "The Lost Dock of Liverpool". It's a cracking programme definitely worth a watch, especially to our American friends to get an idea of what 200-year old docks look like under the ground.

This is it Michael, I think. Not watched it yet, just found it.

Link

Michael @40 Is that the one where they found our last trophy next to the Arteta money?

John, the trophy was there but not the money.

Jamie #4 The Liver Building is built on one-third of the filled-in St George’s dock and the entire Pier Head and dock system is built on reclaimed land.

Basically a couple of centuries ago anything past St Nicholas church was the Royal Blue Mersey so I guess with today’s advancements we should be alright.

John Kavanagh

Brilliant idea. Most of the dead wood has long since fossilized so it should provide a sturdy foundation.

Great news. Despite the here and now turbulence with all things management and players, it's good to see the club pressing on with the strategic vision. There is a long-term plan.

An iconic stadium for the club, the supporters and the city to be proud of.

Now let's make sure we have a team to justify the setting when we move there. And hopefully one that gives the Grand old Lady the send off she deserves.

Goose bump moment for Evertonians.

One of the best, most dramatic, football stadiums in the world, is about to become a reality.

JFC! The Construction phase is so similar to our playing style; SNAIL PACE with plenty of sideways, backwards passes!!!

Just dig a hole, fill it up with smectite and build lol. Simples!

Here's an Echo headline made in heaven just for Tony Abrahams:

"Everton's long-awaited Bramley-Moore Dock news can unite fans in time of turmoil"

Dream on...

Building on reclaimed land isn't uncommon, but climate change includes rising sea levels, so if you have a choice I'd go a few metres higher to be safe...

Remember traveling on the dockers umbrella or the ovee as some dockers called it, as kids it was finally closed down in the mid 50's I think.

Bill (51) - I’m too young myself but I remember my old fella telling me about it.

That and the fact that the air in the city at the time was so dirty that sometimes you couldn’t see your hand in front of your face. He said he’d get home, blow his nose and it’d be black.

I think he lived in a cardboard box in the middle of the road too…

Gotta dream Michael, because it’s a long time since I saw it happen, although I’m sure you’d love it though, because it’s absolutely fantastic when it does happen!

Life is life, people were meant to have different opinions, and it’s obvious that certain people will never agree with each other, especially over something as emotional as football, until everything comes together that is, and our team finally wins again. Meaning what a gullible fool I am!

Tony S, I can believe it. My grandad (long dead now) used to drive his bus along the dock road in the 50s with his packet of Capstan and the Daily Mirror on the dashboard. Smoking the Capstan was probably like a breath of fresh air.

Anecdote, A young John Lennon got on his bus one night in town, said he booted him off for having leather trousers on.

Surely not. Tony Marsh said it would never happen and he err...knows a thing or two.

Dave # 44,
I think the water used to go up as far as the old mersey tunnel entrance.
Water street was true to its name.

I think I read that they would be using hydraulic fill – sand dredged from a suitable spot out in Liverpool Bay, and deposited in the dock by pumping it in as a slurry. The sand settles and the water is decanted off. Stone or Type 1 MOT would be far too expensive.

To allay your fears, Jamie, the degree of settlement is figured in. Contrary to that useless bible thing you keep reading, building on sand is actually the way to go. And any heavy structures will be founded on piles driven or cast into the sand. As Michael says, all standard construction techniques...

But good quality control and quality assurance must still be followed and diligently applied at all stages. Yes, they do know what they are doing...

just expecting them now to find a mummified remains from a lost indigenous tribal species wearing a liverpool shirt.

Meaning the building site gets ring fenced as a site of historical significance.

Tony #52 Your dad was right about the air I remember in the late 50'S I was serving my apprenticeship and had to attend Riversdale Technical College that was just by Liverpool Cricket Ground close to Otterspool Prom. One day there was a thick fog so no buses and I had to start walking home, I lived in Scarisbrick Rd and after walking for over an hour it cleared up and I manage to get on a bus. I had a light colored pair of trousers on and along the creases there was a black stain from the fog. I belive at one time Liverpool was known as the capital of Bronchitis.

Bill (51)I remember going on the overhead railway a couple of times, they were a bit like the old trams, wooden seats, not very comfortable, boneshakers we used to call them. I worked on the docks in the late fifties and early sixties and they were not in use then so you are right about them finishing in the mid fifties. There was a good film “ Waterfront” and I think they were shown in that, with Robert Newton and Richard Burton, saw it it on The Roscommon in the early fifties.

Michael, stop going on the Echo website!!

For the architects out there, and I'm certainly not one, surely the London Docklands and Canary Wharf involved similar construction? As far as I know, they haven't sunk yet.

As like clockwork, a positive stadium announcement magically comes out after yesterday's divisive managerial announcement. I wonder how long the club has been sitting on this news waiting for the right time to publish it.

Bill (59) - I’ve heard a theory that the Liverpool accent is a combination of Irish immigrants and the air quality.

Danny The new stand being built at Fulhams ground is close to the river Thames and they needed permission to extend out into the River and I always wondered did they have any problems with heritage societies and how they went about it.

Tony whatever the combination it is easy to recognize were ever you live. As the song goes. In my Liverpool home '
We speak with an accent extremely rare
If you want a Cathedral we've got one to spare
In my Liverpool home'.
Funny thing is even though I don't live there anymore I will always call it home. Wish I just had half of the money it cost for me and the family to go back for visits.

Jamie #4

Over a century ago the George's Dock was infilled and the, so called, Three Graces constructed. Last time I was down there I didn't notice any of them leaning or sinking.

By comparison, infilling BMD should be a doodle with today's modern equipment. Global warming and rising water levels have been factored into the design, too, so you don't have to worry about that, either!

Kristian # 63

Sorry to disappoint you but Everton haven't been sitting on the announcement. The survey work only finished yesterday!

Will # 68. I'd been waiting for a conspiracy post, too. lol Toffeeweb can be so negative!!

Parts of the Overhead structure was still around well into the 1970s and some of the stone pillars have been preserved by the Salthouse Dock. The Dingle Station still exists albeit under a car showroom at the end of Park Road. They use the platforms, or did do, to store cars.

Kristian, I've watched from the start of the thread for a post in that vein. That's how used to it we are!

Dave @ 60 - I left Liverpool aged eight in the late sixties, though was back regularly for games and visiting as we only moved to Warrington initially.

I might be wrong and have no older relatives to ask now, but I seem to remember parts of the structure of the overhead rail still in place mid 60s, if not working. Or am I getting confused?

Will (68), There might still have been markings where the overhead railway had been by the mid sixties but they definitely were not working by then.

Regarding the accent it took me years to work it out because geograhically we should be broad Lancashire I thought the exaggerated "kkk" sound was arabic.

Took a trip to Rhyl to work it out I thought the place was overrun with scousers (it is) but the dialect confused me till I realised it was the natural North Wales accent (listen to Michael Owen for a good example). Trade from there has come through Liverpool for centuries doubtless umpteen families have moved to the city. Mix in the Irish invasion and "viola" - the scouse accent

Will, it's programmed into our DNA. As they say, 'Once Everton has Touched you '

Kristian 63 if Ancelotti had not done a runner on us then no need for Raffa, stadium announcement would have probably been made on same day anyway.

Doesn't matter what the club does. Some people are never happy.

So the money is in place to fill in the hole, er, then that’s it. Oh well, jumpers for goalposts.

Talk of the Overhead Railway reminds me of my Grandfather's stories when he used to educate me about Liverpool of old.

Nostalgia with a hint of futurism. Wouldn't it be a great idea to implement a new electric skyline train system running along the docks. Maybe from the Albert Dock through to Bramley Moore or even beyond as part of the redevelopment? Similar to what you see in some airports, particularly in the US.

Additional public transport option around the city centre and providing a futuristic flavour of the city's heritage?

Thanks, Dave - didn't think of it working but thought there was some of the gear still there. Some things from back then I can remember like it was yesterday, others, not so sure!

I said to my mum years back, I thought I remembered going on the old Runcorn-Widnes transporter bridge. Turns out I was a baby in the cot when it closed, so I guess I imagined it!

Kristian, yes.

Danny, I agree. I'm no rail anorak but I love elevated trains, monorails etc. Every city should have one!

The advantages of a mono rail

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDOI0cq6GZM

I believe a lot of the the old railway lines are still there, and have even seen plans that were going to link up most of the city once again. Edge hill, across to Parliament st, would link up with the railway lines going south, and Tuebrook, Anfield by the old Clarence pub, and walton by the taxi club, would have also joined existing lines, going north.

I think this might have went ahead if Liverpool would have got the Commonwealth games, but I still expect some kind of link now that Anfield is going to house over 60.000 fans, although I think Bramley Moore is going to be so much more straightforward, considering it’s already on a working line.

I wonder if Moorefields will ever get built up again? although it wouldn’t surprise me to see hovercrafts on the river Mersey on match days in the future, even if that might sound a bit far-fetched.

You know the more I see the Projected Images of BMD the more I like it, especially if they have a ferry facility to cross the Mersey (no allusion to Gerry and the Pacemakers btw) on a sunny day. What could be more exhilarating, to see the Blues against decent opposition and 40 odd thousand at least cheering them on?

I just hope I am still here when that materialises, whenever that may be! Assuming of course that I can get a Ticket! I will indeed be a happy man !

Brian #29, I think Ring Fenced Burgers would be a very catchy name.

Michael B and Will, thanks for the head's up on that 2008 program. I'm about halfway through it and it's really interesting.

Onion Ring Fenced Burgers - or is that too cheesy

Mike 81 - agreed - Ring Fenced Burgers is deffo better than say Ring Tasty Burgers.

Our new home is going to be fabulous. One of the best stadiums in world sport, in an absolutely iconic setting. I'm so proud of the club for the way they've gone about the whole process.
We've got an amazing owner and a first class group of professionals supporting him. Qualities I have no doubt will be mirrored in the project delivery team.
When you go in there for the first time - it will take your breath away.
What an exciting time it is for Evertonians.

Jamie @ 4, Devonshire Dock Hall at Barrow is about the size of a football stadium and was built on part of a much larger dock than BMD. It's been standing for nearly 40 years.

Tony #54 I think the ciggy of the day in them times for us Kids to try was the woodbine, tried it once and I believe after that it was the reason I never smoked again. Wife used to smoke Capstan when we were courting, she lived in Croxteth opposite the English Electric, one night I was walking home late down the East Lancs Rd and a bus stopped and the driver asked did I have a ciggy, I still had some of the girl friends in my pocket and I gave him what was left, after that if he seen me walking home late at night he would stop and give me a lift.

Nearly 70 and left my home city of Liverpool in my early 20's. Reading this thread has made me homesick even after so many years.

I remember the fog; the Widnes/Runcorn Transporter Bridge and of course the Pier Head, which was pretty grim in my youth! The Ferry across to Wallasey I think it was as my relatives all lived on the Wirral.

I can't remember the pub in the city where we used to drink before heading off to the Beachcomber or the Manhattan Club on that hilly road, which I can't recall the name of either at the moment, Mount Street or something like that?

I remember seeing a car with the licence plate Ten 10 parked outside the Manhattan Club and being amazed! Used to see the group the Escorts around those clubs and just to get back to EFC, I never missed a single match.

Can't get back to GP these days but seeing the date of the 26th July for the first steps to BMD gives me goosebumps.

Mike gaynes no prob mate, tony Robinson is a great presenter right at the end of the programme I had a little tear in my eye at the way he ended it, my nephew is playing for marine now mike, he didn't want to go the states to that college, they are paying him a good wage, so he and the family are quite happy.

Tony 79. I'll take the speke airport hovercraft all day.

Good news to swallow the Rafa pill with? Kenwright almost had me in tears with that, almost Shakespearean, speech. At last it looks like we’ll be moving. Hip hip hooray!!

Probably needed to get it out there before the Rafa salary was disclosed. Usmanov has stepped up and allowed his name to be mentioned as the catalyst.

There is some early speculation of 15 million but not known yet could be as low as 6-7.

Michael Kenrick -

Thanks for allaying fears. I literally laughed at loud at this:

Contrary to that useless bible thing you keep reading, building on sand is actually the way to go.

I'm not being sarcastic at all, I'm cackling like a hyena. My stomach hurts a bit. Very funny.

Oh Lord above. Some time when TW is slow, we should have an atheist v. God debate. Or if I ever actually meet you, over like 20 beers. Each.

I should say thank you to the myriad of posters who gave concrete examples (pun intended) of buildings on top of filled areas.

I had no idea about the history of some of the waterside places in Liverpool being filled and having construction on top. Very cool.

Liverpool just sounds like the coolest city. Seriously. I have to get over my fear of flying and get there before my time is up.

Thank you again to all who posted in reply.

Barry 70, Scouse, like the basque language, is of extraterrestrial origin. The truth is out there!

Michael B, thanks for the update on your nephew. Sorry to hear he's not gracing the US collegiate pitches with his badly-needed quality, but I'm delighted to hear he's a Mariner, because now I can go see him play! I'm a huge Marine supporter, courtesy of Peter Mills, and I probably own the only Marine game shirt in America. So when I come over next season, I'll get to cruise up to Crosby and cheer your family!

Jamie, the CCP is turning the South China Sea into a huge landfill to build air and naval bases. Same goes for Hong Kong.

I thought you’d be aware of that as it was all your former President would talk about.

Jamie (92), there was actually such a debate in the Liverpool Daily Post a few years ago, it started when a reader wrote to David Charters, a great reporter sadly gone, and in his letter said “ There are no atheists or agnostics in a fox hole during a war”. The debate went for a few weeks with readers writing in their thoughts, very interesting and very, very lively.

Not sure, but in the end those who believed in God won the debate!!

Barry @ 70 accents are really a big deal. To me, the scouse accent is musical. I recall the last time we had a ToffeeWeb get together. Keith, a cockney Blue and his son were there. At the end of the night it was me, Derek, Dave A, Neil Copeland and ( Brian Williams)??? I was giving a speech in my pretty thick Irish accent. The guys all nodded in what I assumed was agreement. Actually, they didn't have the first clue what I was saying.

Andy#98
TBH...it's a bit like that when you post as well!😊

Colin @ 96 -

I filtered that fella, heavily. Plus, even if he said it, would it be true??

Dave A @ 97 -

Of course they won the debate! And yes, there's no atheists or agnostics in fox holes.

That reminds me what my late Grandfather, Robert "Pop" Meagher used to tell me. He flew a B17 bomber in WWII. The common saying while flying was, "God is my co-pilot." Reason being is, as Pop described it to me, it was never like the movies. You didn't fly in and out, weaving about dodging shrapnel explosions all around you.

You just flew straight and prayed.

Will never forget that. Great man, my Pop.

This is great news. What a location. Reminds me of the time I camped beside a river right in the middle of a u-shaped valley in Co Wiclow, and yes smart arse, there probably was an Ox-bow lake nearby. Anyway, it was a spectacular setting. Anyone who's bed to Powerscourt will know what I'm talking about.

But the midgies were unbearable. I mean they were crawling all over us. We had to pack up before dark and head somewhere else.

I wonder will the elements be a problem here. In the dead of winter the breeze comes in off the Mersey. Its Foggy and damp.

Would the stadium be designed with the elements in mind? I'm sure it will be and if that's the case I'd like to know how.

BILL(59) and Dave(60)

I also have strong memories of riding on the Overhead. I have been in Canada since 1963 just after we won the League. Been back on a regular basis, almost always to see Everton. You can leave Liverpool but Liverpool never leaves you. From the Pier Head to Clubmoor on the 13 Tram or bus was a regular for me and my mates. Usually we had spent our last penny and we often asked the Conductor to take our names.We used to tell them that we had been robbed or we had lost our money at New Brighton Baths. We were never asked to get off the bus even though the kind conductors must never have believed us.I would love to be able to see that first game in 2024 and keep all great memories alive. I had to cancel our last visit with two of my sons in 2019 due to Covid.

While I am in a pleasant mood and love all things Everton I would like to wave the White flag to Darren Hind who I have verbally battled with too many times. I would like a TRUCE. We are both Evertonians and we need to think together on whatever lies ahead. After the truce, perhaps we can start to disagree again. Hope this doesn't sound too squidgy or sloppy. If it does I can go back to being Ornery. Hope he reads this. WOW that was hard.

Yeah but didn't the atheist take two out of three submissions against the priest on the Monty Python sketch?

Oops sorry, God had his existence proven by two falls to a submission. That Monsignor Edward Gray had some moves for a man of the cloth. Appreciating Python required some intake that may have affected my memory there.

Me dad was a docker in the 60s 70s and he told me a local scrap. metal company got the contract of cutting down the dockers umbrella and the steel was shipped to Australia to build the Sydney harbour area up, not shure if its accurate...ate there any Australian blues on here?

Tony @ 38 the archive footage of Bramley-Moore Dock and the men walking across the girders is on You Tube. Type in Victorian Liverpool - old footage enhanced with colour and sound. The other one is called Liverpool in the 1930's.
The footage in the first Victorian one starts off close to Lime Street and quickly moves to shots of Bramley-Moore Dock.
Not a red in site of course because this was before they existed.
The second one shot in the 30's shows the men high up on the girders opposite the Liver Buildings just walking around without a care in the world, no health and safety, no hard hats, just cloth caps and trilbys.
Neither too long but truly fascinating because they have been colour enhanced and sound has been added.

Should be a Monorail from the Pier head to BMD, the 4th grace, as a cool way to get to the game and nod to the dockers' umbrella.
Why not? A Monorail worked out for Springfield didn't it?

Brendan, behave yourself!!I I will meet you in the Crown someday.

Tony 53 - your not gullible mate. As a matter of fact it is people like you who make things happen. You have faith that what you hope for will happen one day.

And for the benefit of Michael and Jamie there is actually mention of it in that “useless bible thingy”. “For faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things unseen.” Check it out.

As for me I hope that one day I will enter that stadium with you and your ould fella before I die. It will be great.

Laurie -

I think you and I are on the same hymn sheet - pun intended.

I recall a rather brave comment you made on TW that I agreed wholeheartedly with back in the covid debate days on TW. I won't rehash the subject matter - bit too sensitive. But it entailed the focus of humanity on other definably more tragic deaths in the world.

I didn't forget it, and you immediately became infallible on TW for me.

Cheers.

For the stadium, I hope to enter Goodison before it waves goodbye, and BMD before the bell rings.

John (102) You were not to far from us in Liverpool I lived in Norris Green, Scarisbrick Road, Broadway one end East Lancs the other. I Believe you live in Ontario. I hope to get there in summer or fall to visit my granddaughter she lives in the Gravenhurst area.

Michael @57

You are absolutely correct about the type of material which will be used for infilling the dock.

I retired some years ago after a career in civil engineering as a buyer. In 2004, the firm I worked for had a contract at the Port of Tilbury which involved infilling a redundant dock similar to Bramley-Moore. We used pulverised fuel ash from the nearby coal-fired power station which was available at minimal cost.

We then built the first of several paper handling warehouses on top of the infilled dock. Not a glamorous project like the new stadium and different filling material but the same construction method.

Andy #108

I'm not Belfast so don't often drink in the Crown. But two of my children for reasons I cannot fathom love Belfast and live there... so I'm in Belfast pretty often.

Of course I would like to share a pint... I'll even pay!

Bill (111)...

Gravenhurst is quite a bit North from us. We live in the Niagara area. It would be worth the drive to possibly meet up. Perhaps in-between. Let me know when you are going there.

Back to Liverpool. One of my favourite places was the Rag House (The Regal) and Norris Green Baths. I also used to go to The Clubmoor. Seems no time ago.

Jamie @4; Have no fear, there's a monster slab of sandstone just below the surface. Half of the pre WW 1 city was built of it and on it. The river sits on it.
As you come in on the train you're surrounded by cliff height sandstone cuttings.

The dock wall has held back a river with a 32ft tidal range for 170 yesrs, its not just sat there like big lego pieces, its anchored to the bedrock.
They will drill down into it.

Stopping the River leaking back into the building site will be the harder part. Finance – as is usual – will be the hardest problem, not the engineering.

Michael (105) I'm originally a Cheshire Blue but I've lived in Australia for the past 50 years. The Sydney Harbour Bridge was opened in the early 1930's so the steel couldn't have come from the over head railway. I have a very vague memory of travelling on the railway as a small kid with my Mum and Dad. I think they wanted to experience it before it closed.

Bill gall. I grew up off scarisbrick by the bridge, I’m sure you remember the crown pub, to say spit n sawdust was doing it a favour.

I hear we have bought Ben white

I hope you and Jamie, both get to Bramley Moore, Laurie, especially because it was your links to the regeneration of Melbourne docks, that has made me believe that little bit more mate, and not just for Everton, but also for the once downtrodden city of Liverpool, in general really.

Liverpool is changing, it’s becoming so much more multi-cultural now, (John Lennon - Imagine, I’m sure he’ll come into the debate on God) but this can only be a good thing, it’s the only way the city can grow, but Goodison Pk, still retains that old scouse everything Jamie, and even though I’m delighted to be going to Bramley Moore, take it from me mate, “ you’ve got to see Goodison Pk, under the floodlights, especially if it’s one of those games, when the Everton crowd really unite!

This news may have come about to ease the agony of our new appointment. Either way it’s great news.
If Rafa is still with us when we move into BMD then it will surely mean we have won something major !

Of course there'll be a PR angle to this. Just like politicians, who time announcements.

But so what? Either way, this announcement was going to be made and the stadium plans are massive positive for this club of ours. Pleased to see progress and I don't link this to the current managerial appointment. The timing of the announcement? Okay, maybe. But the stadium? In flight way before Benitez was even an embryonic thought.

Bobby, so will it be All White on the Night ?

I heard we were allegedly chasing him, good player but £50 M when Ben Godfrey cost less than half of that !

The Crown. What a fine Belfast pub!

The talk of the accent always intrigues me as the Scouse one is so unique and so geographically enclosed compared to others which tend to spread and fade over a wider area if that makes sense? From my experience, you can move 3 miles away from Speke to Widnes or from Huyton to St Helens and there is a significant shift in accent.

I'm a bit of a language geek, so always interested in dialects and accents. I always assumed that the Scouse accent was originally based on a Lancashire one but had been heavily influenced by the Irish immigration of the 19th century as well as close links to North East Wales. The latter makes sense when you hear people from Wrexham speak. I'd say they sound closer to Scouse than Welsh.

I've not done my research, but I also think it was influenced by the sea faring nature of the City, particularly Scandinaivans? Someone more educated will have to confirm, but isn't that where the term Scouse and the associated local dish comes from??

At last. This has been an epic saga so far.

Rafa has been hired as a piledriver, there's no way the infill will be a problem.

Looking forward to the time lapse coverage of the build.

Undoubtedly there will be issues, but every building project encounters them; the constructors will have assessed all the risks and price accordingly.

But this is exciting; personally love the design, the location is outstanding..or will be!

Nil Satis Nisi Optimum...

Danny,

Try ‘Scouse:A Social And Cultural History’ by Tony Crowley. It’s written a bit academic in its early stages, but it’s pretty informative.

Danny@123: Scouse accents vary according to the individual and the area of Liverpool. From my experience, that’s always been the case. Accents vary from the ‘very working class’ with broad accents with an edge, to ‘more middle class’ with softer accents and rounded edges.

Tony@119: Good post. Goodison can make the hairs stand up on the back of your neck. Let’s hope the new stadium will carry that on.

Stan. North Liverpool usually talk a bit faster. the south maybe a bit less
broader but that’s just rule of thumb and just my opinion. For lfc accent see Hagar the horrible more Oslo twang.

Tony post 119 more than once I have urged/ suggested the away fans should be up in the gods like at toon or Man U out of eyeline. Behind a Perspex screen but obviously proper ventilation. Derby day that’s optional.

Thanks Chris. Just bought the online version. I only read when I travel, so that will need to wait for my next flight!

Stan, Brian, yes, it does vary according to area. I personally never noticed a north / south city difference, more the area. I think the north / south difference reflects that as the south of the city has a larger percentage of the more affluent areas. Woolton, Hunts Cross, Allerton, Mossley Hill, Childwall etc. My family is from Speke and Garston but you can tell the shift in accent from Speke compared to when I lived in Woolton. That's 2 miles from Speke and I could walk to my mum's house from there. I guess the same could apply to Bootle and Crosby?

Thinking of Woolton, I always used to point out Howard Kendall's apprarent old house to my son whenever we passed it in the car or on the 81 bus. I don't know if it's still there, but there was a St Rupert's Tower stain glass decorative at the side of the front door.

Local myth maybe, but it was known as Howard's old house.

Danny, The theory is that it derives from Lobscouse, from a Norwegian boiled meat and vegetable stew, called Lapskaus in Norway. Lob also is an ancient dialect word for boiled.

Andy (98), yes I remember that night very well, we’d gone through a few topics and we were on to how and when we got married with religion thrown into the chat, in a funny way, you and me were of different religions and so were our wives,in a back to front way, you was married to a lovely Catholic lady and my wife was married to a lovely Catholic gentleman, how lucky you and my wife were!! Oh and your father in law was part of the conversation, we did a lot of laughing about the whole business, a pleasant end to a nice night, except for Derek and Neil who missed their last trains home.

Foundation plan, and a couple of typical sections can be found on the planning submission for those who are curious. Link below; first 2 drawings.

Stadium is piled down to the underlying sandstone, as referred to in a couple of the previous posts.

http://northgate.liverpool.gov.uk/DocumentExplorer/Application/folderview.aspx?type=MVMPRD_DC_PLANAPP&key=1166800

You can direct your structural engineering queries this way; its been the day job for 20 years!

Brian (117) never went in the Crown I went mostly to the Broadway and as a couple of my mates lived by the Strand we went to the Western. My future wife lived in Croxteth so we often went to the Oyster and Lobster. I here the Oyster is no longer there.

Type or paste your comment here. PLEASE capitalise initial letters of proper names and use proper grammar. No txt-speak; all-lowercase posts are likely to be deleted

Yeah the broady a quick seven pints then break a few hearts usually on a Sunday go the club round the corner.Well that was the plan. Broady club featured as a setting in a film you probably know. Gumshoe starring Albert finney and bill dean ( Harry cross brook side, great blue he used to drink in the Sefton west derby village,

The sydney harbour bridge was built in Middlesbrough and shipped over. There are lots of stamps on the steel with Middlesbrough UK on it. I’ve spent many a night on the rocks around there getting pissed in the Irish bars. Great spot.
A lot of the the instruments in lighthouses around Australia were also made in Middlesbrough so the Smoggies were a busy lot all them years ago.
Brian and Bill.
We moved up to Sparrow Hall from St Anne Street in 77 so spent my teenage years in and around Norris Green. Apparently there was not one single pub registered in Noggsy as they were all on the boundary.
As for the crown, well it was my local but my regular was the Black Bull were my best mate lived nearby.
Spent a bit of time in the Crown though and there was one time when the coppers put a last orders restriction at 9.40pm because of constant trouble. It didnt make much difference though as we just got six pints each and sat there till midnight drinking warm beer. It’s hard to look back at shit like that because you just shake your head and think WTF..
On the subject of accents. I went the match for years with mates from Norris Green, Fazakerley, Kirkby, Walton and Scotland Road. I suppose everyone has there own tone so the accent can be seen as different but there was one lad from Kirkby who was actually very hard to understand because he hardly moved his lips. He was like a foreigner amongst the crowd. Great gang of lads though and it was the laugh we had that made the match day special.
Looking forward to getting home and seeing them all again when this COVID is finally contained.

Brian went to the Broadway Club a few times, at that time J.Royle's dad played the organ there, tried to get them to run a Sunday league team with no luck.

Pete,

St Anne Street rang a bell so I talked to my wife who remembered it. Before moving to Croxteth, they lived in the 4 squares, Queen Anne Place and used to walk down to Queen Anne Street to go downtown. Small World: a man commentating from Australia and a woman in Canada remembering her childhood.

Typical. Another stadium update following the shit show of appointing Benitez.

Bill well my cousin anto Garvey ran the pub team from clubmoor, ( farmers pub ) called the nalgo. Played most on the dockers club playing fields. I think maybe the half decent Broadway nogs players turned out for them

Peter Clarke me dad was on the docks for 20 odd years and that's what he heard mate, 25000 ton of cast iron must have went somewhere maybe they pitched it😁

Dermot 139, I'll take a stadium update every day of the week for the next 3 years until its built.

Daily reader, very rare poster. Live in London but left my hometown of Belfast 25 years ago. Feel I have to share a fact (at least this is what I was always told 😂):
When the Crown was built the married owners were Catholic and Protestant. The story goes that the Protestant wanted something regal to do with the monarchy about the bar, so the Catholic agreed to have a mosaic of the crown outside the entrance to the bar. But the irony for the Catholic half of the marriage was that everyone walking into the bar had to walk on the crown, therefore disrespecting it in their eyes.
In any case, worth a visit as Guinness is very good.
UTFT!

Apologies if it's already been mentioned but The Crown was demolished some years ago.

Bill, different Crown I think. The one in Great Victoria Street Belfast is still going strong and I think is owned by the National Trust. I was in it two weeks ago. No standing at the bar, if you want a drink you leave the door of your snug open.
A couple of years ago I got an email from a girl I dated at school 45 years ago, I hadn't seen her since. We arranged to meet and catch up on old times in The Crown. I was there early sat at the bar. She came in, still gorgeous, had a good look round walked right past me and went to leave. I called after her. The look on her face was magnificent. Seems I hadn't aged quite as well as I thought.

Andy
Bill was talking about the Crown near the Sparrow Hall estate in Liverpool.

Bill@146: When I lived in Norris Green ages 8 to 13 from 1963 to 1968, the ‘Sparrow Hall gang’ was much-feared by my mates and me. The word was, don’t get caught by the Sparrow-Hall gang, they’ll torture you. Never did get to see any of that fabled gang!

Stan moved to Norris green in my youth but unlike you I met them that was a fight to remember I luckily I survived.

Brian.(140),Brian if it’s the same Anto, I sat near him in the Upper Bullens, he passed away three or four years ago, a nice fella, think he was on Tranmere Rovers books at one time, If it’s him, I went to his funeral in St. Mathews, Duncan McKenzie was one of the mourners, trying to think of Anto’s brothers first name, a cracking boxer for Kirkby ABC, saw him a few times at the Stadium and was involved in some punch for punch fights.

The Crown ! My dad's local, he used to drink on the balcony upstairs. We lived on Parthenon Drive always pronounced Parthenion by Liverpool people. When built in the 1930s (?) it was a class joint. All art deco with a restaurant. Bents pub.
In later years it was the only place I've ever seen with a double bar...a moat between where you got your ale and where it was pulled. You could buy anything there that had been made on the industrial estate up Long Lane.
Burnt down and demolished a while back I think.

Was in Liverpool the last couple of days for in-laws family get together. This morning after agreeing to meet up with my better half and her twin sister around lunch time I thought I'd go look at the site of our new ground.
The whole area desperately needs some form of rejuvenation and as had been commented on before the road system seems to need significant upgrading.
Called Inthe Bramley House for a quick drink before walking back into the city.
There's probably people who walk a bit faster than me but I'm not a slow walker and it took me between 20 to 25 minutes to walk from The Bramley House to the Liver Building.
Can't wait to attend the first game.

Bill.

My mam had a pub in Cazneau Street, The Denbigh Castle. That area around the 4 Squares, Gerard Gardens was our playground as kids.

The pub actually got knocked down last year along with St Joseph's School. They are actually going to build the new Police Station on it.

I walked around there a couple of years ago when I was home from Australia and it's sad to see that history disappear. Just great memories now.

Back to the Crown. The Fitzy's had it for a few years and someone changed the name of the upstairs bar to Rembrants. Yes, they missed the 'd' out… which was apt given that the only artists in there were piss artists. It was finally bowled over a few years ago, much to the relief of the residents nearby.

Dave @149.

Yeah, my dad's nephew, Anto. I went everywhere with him, ie, Bayern semi-fina, Rotterdam etc. Strangely my first memory going the match was with him at the Chelsea title season in 1969, Lower Bullens: 5-2 – Bally ran amok.

Usually my dad (the major) took me and Tony, home and away. Franny Garvey, his bro was a good boxer. An injury to his hand curtailed his career a bit but he would still wipe out any mouthy kopites in the farmers four at a time, no problem.

Anto was no mug either. Respiratory problem on a Sunday and he was too stubborn to go the hospital. Could easily have been saved but he didn't fancy going cos of all them loons in the Royal Hospital etc. Stubborn to the end. We never bothered much going the Crown really.

Getting to the side of the current threads.

When you look at the architectural picture, can anybody honestly not say, "Wow! The best in the entire UK and Europe"?

Let's be proud of this and the entire Liverpool city project. I have lived in Adelaide for 34 years but my real home is the whole of Merseyside. My missus and I looked around Bramley-Moore Dock a couple of years ago on a retirement trip. Looked so awful and jaded. So, two fingers to the heritage dick-brains. This stadium will be a fantastic attraction not only for Everton but for anybody visiting Liverpool.

Dan Meiss, thanks for your brilliance in architecture. Your foresight is way beyond the norm. I hope I remain fit enough to travel back to the homeland and to watch a game at the new home of Everton FC.

Bob, good post there, mate.

Like you so rightly mentioned, the place was an absolute eyesore, before this project was even mentioned, and it can only be good for the area in respect of jobs and rejuvenation.

Also agree – the more I see it, the more I am in awe! 👍

Tick tick tick official countdown commences.

3 years to go, but I'll be happy even if it's 4.

Brian (153), yes Anto was a tough nut, I had a good chat to him in The Upper Bullens not long before he passed away, he didn’t look well, had that illness nobody wants, but still came to the game, I asked him why he had come when he was so ill, “ Dave I’d be in the house, sitting there worrying how they were getting on, I’d rather be here watching”. I told him he was a lot braver than I’d be in the same condition.

Yes “Franny” that was him, never met him, knew him through his boxing, I was a recorder for The Everton Red Triangle ABC so used to have a seat close up to the ring, you’d see some boxers take a good punch and they’d fold, give up, then you’d see some like Franny take a real good punch and it would invigorate them see it on their face, pull themselves together and go after their opponent and give them plenty back, but always in a controlled way, made for a good fight.

Have to go with Bob's comments (154).

Last time I made it home was 2014 but, due to medical problems, mainly my heart, that slowed me down a bit, and that curtailed my travels. Getting over it and now the new ground is on my bucket list. Here is hoping there will be no major delays.

A very enjoyable thread this, so thank you to all who contributed and especially all those who went off at tangents to the main point! On the main point, the new stadium, I'm with Bill above; Bob 154 has got it spot on.

But to the tangents: like Danny O'Neill I'm a Speke boy who ended up in Woolton/Allerton and like some posters I have always detected a difference in the accents of North Liverpool and the South End. I think I first became vaguely aware of this at the age of 11 and travelling across the city to attend Cardinal Allen, alma mater to the White Pele.

Although it was a grammar school CA was the most socially mixed comprehensive school you could ever have imagined. Suddenly, after growing up in the semi rural Speke of the 1950's (I kid you not), I was mixing with lads from Kirkdale and Kenny, Scotty Road and County Road and there were times at first when I did not have a clue what they were on about. We must have overcome this, however, because some of them have been lifelong friends.

I am no student of phonetics but it seems to me that the accent softens slightly in South Liverpool. Nor am I saying that this is a good thing (or a bad thing), it's merely an observation based on living in the city and having taught in schools at polar ends of Liverpool. I'm not a sociologist either but there could be something in the comments I've read about the influence of socio-economic status on the accent.

I was particularly interested, I don't know why, in the references to some of the old pubs around the place and I just wanted to steer you to some brilliant films that you'll enjoy if you enjoyed reading the comments on this thread. Whether you live here, are an exiled Scouser, an honorary Scouser like Andy Crooks or just someone whose love of EFC has made you interested in the city please seek out these films if you have not yet seen them:

Terence Davies, born Wavertree 1945, is the writer and director of each film. "Distant Voices, Still Lives" and "The Long Day Closes" are autobiographical films about growing up in Liverpool in the 1940's and 50's. Be prepared to be shocked at how poor we were. Brilliantly written and acted, they are not necessarily what I'd call feelgood films. Then there is the wonderful, elegaic documentary narrated by Terence himself, "Of Time and The City." Without doubt the best film history of any city, and yes I am biased! It will give you goosebumps.

That's an interesting point Gerard. I think still to this day, the accent is softer in many of the southern districts such as Woolton.

Speke is interesting. My mother was born in 1947 and grew up in Speke. Initially near to St Ambrose Church and then in the Prefabs. When we moved back following my Dad's military service, we eventually ended up in School Way before she then moved onto the regenerated Dymchurch estate literally on the site of the Prefab she had spent much of her early life.

She had a much softer accent than the one you hear in Speke today, so I guess that's a result of families from other parts of the city being moved to places like Speke as it was being developed after the war? Her father and mother (my Grandparents) were from Belfast and Glasgow respectively, so no Liverpool roots.

Thanks for the tips. I love history in general, but I love Liverpool history.

Danny ah yes the prefabs! School Way where you lived was the “dividing line” and some kids had painted arrows on the road pointing in one direction towards “Brickville” and in the other to “Tintown”.

My mistake by the way; I believe Terence Davies grew up in Kensington not Wavertree.

Gerard @159 great post. I've seen the 2nd and 3rd of the films you mention. I'm not a scouser but have spent a lot of time in Liverpool which I first visited in 1965 on a school trip – how it's changed since then!

I can do a decent scouse accent which I find helps when trying to get served in pubs and chatting to locals.

Gerard,

3 great films. I’ll have to dig out ‘Of Time and the City’, I’ve not watched it in years, and you’ve reminded me how good it is. Yes it gets to you alright. ‘Thou art Peter and you’re a brick’, from memory.

I was at Cardinal Allen from 59-66, so a contemporary of Colin Harvey but he was a couple of years ahead of me, but playing for Everton B even then.

We actually played for the same team once. It was 16 a side in Germany on a school trip, youth hosteling in Bavaria. Against a load of German lads. We won 1-0 I think. It was going dark at the time, so hard to tell.