Everton have confirmed that the start date for construction work at Bramley-Moore Dock will be Monday, 26 July. Main contractors Laing O'Rourke will immediately begin the first phase of the project to construct the club's new 52,888-seater stadium.
That is the day that the club take possession of the site and the first phase of the development will be the enabling works to prepare the dock site in readiness for the build which is anticipated to take around three years.
Work will include the repair and preservation of the Grade II listed dock wall, stabilising of the hydraulic tower located on the site, the development of welfare facilities for Laing O'Rourke construction staff, the preparation for demolition of existing non-listed structures, and raking of the dock floor. Pipework will also be installed that will be used for the infilling of the dock.
Once these works are completed, Laing O'Rourke will begin the process of infilling the dock.
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Club Chairman, Bill Kenwright, said: “We are thrilled to be able to confirm that construction work will commence on our new stadium later this month. This will be a momentous day in the history of the Club and is testament to the ambition and financial commitment of Farhad and the determination and talent of Denise and her executive team at the Club.
“Like every Evertonian Goodison Park has been a massive part of my life but in moving forward we could not have found a more fitting nor more glorious site for our new stadium — one which will both honour our history and celebrate our magnificent future.”
Meanwhile, Everton's Chief Executive, Denise Barrett-Baxendale, commented: “This moment will rank as one of the most important in the Club's history as it symbolises a new era for Evertonians, an era which will see our supporters, their children and their children's children supporting their team in one of the finest stadiums in world football.
“This project presents such an exciting future for our club and is a clear demonstration of our owner's commitment and ambition.
“I would like to thank everyone who has played a part in helping us reach this point — my colleagues who have ensured this project has remained on schedule despite the challenging circumstances presented by the pandemic, business leaders and politicians, the people of the city and, of course, our supporters who have given us their unwavering support at every stage of this project.
“I would also like to thank Laing O'Rourke and look forward to working with them and seeing our stunning designs become a reality in the years ahead.”
Reader Comments (159)
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1 Posted 01/07/2021 at 15:26:20
First phase of construction will be funded directly by Farhad Moshiri. The club are edging closer to announcing their funding deal for the second phase, construction of stadium proper, with their aim still to be complete if possible by 2024/25
2 Posted 01/07/2021 at 16:00:33
No one will believe it until they see a man with a spade…..
And why wait a month, this delay has Kenwright written all over it….
3 Posted 01/07/2021 at 16:05:58
4 Posted 01/07/2021 at 16:08:50
I mean, the settling in a decade could cause serious structural issues, no?
I dunno. I'm sure everything's been taken into account by engineers and whatnot. I'm just a fan of building something heavy over solid ground, call me nuts.
It will be gorgeous, I just hope it doesn't end up in 25 years time looking like the Leaning Tower of Pisa.
5 Posted 01/07/2021 at 16:08:51
6 Posted 01/07/2021 at 16:09:13
We have waited 20 odd years already. I doubt 26 more days will make any difference. Personally I'm very pleased that they are finally starting work.
7 Posted 01/07/2021 at 16:12:12
Every little helps!
8 Posted 01/07/2021 at 16:13:48
9 Posted 01/07/2021 at 16:16:28
10 Posted 01/07/2021 at 16:20:05
You're right that it's better to start favourably (like a rock bed for example) if possible. Specialized foundations are massively expensive so the main concern is not flirting with danger by aiming for economies.
Anyway, if it sinks they can turn it into a giant underground car park and just build a new stadium on top :)
I'll be more interested in the final cost, which will be a lot higher than forecasts we've seen so far.
11 Posted 01/07/2021 at 16:20:48
12 Posted 01/07/2021 at 16:23:52
13 Posted 01/07/2021 at 16:24:50
14 Posted 01/07/2021 at 16:24:57
I had no idea the airport at London was built on fill! Amazing when you consider it. Calms my fears a bit.
They can flirt with economies all they want, AFTER the base has been drained, poured, compacted, compacted again, and then compacted again just for shits and giggles!
15 Posted 01/07/2021 at 16:27:53
16 Posted 01/07/2021 at 16:29:55
Everything is increasing in price. There's no way this project is coming in on budget. I don't know about over there, but just the price of wood alone has skyrocketed here in the States. Everything is increasing in price.
This is NOT a covid, political statement, but rather economic fact: you can't shut down an economy without consequences, never mind for near a year. Prices will increase as companies look to either survive or recoup losses.
No way this project comes in on budget. Unless they scrimp on the fill! Then we'll want to defend the east end of the stadium second half, so we're running slightly downhill towards the west to finish off the game! If the pitch runs north to south, simply replace directionals to achieve the point of that last sentence. 😜
17 Posted 01/07/2021 at 16:30:20
18 Posted 01/07/2021 at 16:31:53
19 Posted 01/07/2021 at 16:32:29
20 Posted 01/07/2021 at 16:33:50
21 Posted 01/07/2021 at 16:34:15
22 Posted 01/07/2021 at 16:34:55
23 Posted 01/07/2021 at 16:37:11
24 Posted 01/07/2021 at 16:38:22
25 Posted 01/07/2021 at 16:44:12
Why clubs take an age to recruit key personnel or agonise over major decisions when they could just pop over to TW, check what the boys (and girls) on here think and save time and money.
Michael and Lyndon should start pimping the site out to clubs that are looking for help.
26 Posted 01/07/2021 at 16:45:29
Any truth to the rumor that he and Messi were spotted at breakfast this morning at The Titanic? I expect an announcement on that this week.
John #22, hahahaha, that's great, but wasn't Hoffa rumored to reside under the end zone at Giants Stadium? Clearly there's a stadium construction technique there that needs looking into.
27 Posted 01/07/2021 at 16:50:25
28 Posted 01/07/2021 at 16:51:27
29 Posted 01/07/2021 at 16:52:41
30 Posted 01/07/2021 at 16:56:43
We could use that overhead railway when the stadium's finished.
31 Posted 01/07/2021 at 16:58:58
I just had a shandy in the Bramley-Moore pub mate. Laing O'Rourke are getting the heavy machinery in place, they are one of the best civil engineering companies in the UK.
I am a bricklayer of 40 years and I have worked on million-pound private houses to small extensions for people I know and everything in-between we are in good hands there will be a lot of trucks bringing stone or "Type 1 MOT" to do the landfill and it will be compacted down with massive rollers.
It's just a normal day at work for civil companies like Laings, but first all the cabins will be going in and surveyors will be in first to set out. Then the water management will be done, then the infill of thousands of tons of MOT will be going in. It's just a straight-forward job really.
32 Posted 01/07/2021 at 17:00:55
33 Posted 01/07/2021 at 17:00:56
37 Posted 01/07/2021 at 17:02:29
38 Posted 01/07/2021 at 17:04:33
Was it The Dockers Umbrella you could see in the background?
39 Posted 01/07/2021 at 17:06:34
40 Posted 01/07/2021 at 17:09:40
41 Posted 01/07/2021 at 17:15:25
42 Posted 01/07/2021 at 17:18:08
43 Posted 01/07/2021 at 17:21:42
44 Posted 01/07/2021 at 17:34:36
Basically a couple of centuries ago anything past St Nicholas church was the Royal Blue Mersey so I guess with todays advancements we should be alright.
45 Posted 01/07/2021 at 17:36:41
Brilliant idea. Most of the dead wood has long since fossilized so it should provide a sturdy foundation.
46 Posted 01/07/2021 at 17:43:35
An iconic stadium for the club, the supporters and the city to be proud of.
Now let's make sure we have a team to justify the setting when we move there. And hopefully one that gives the Grand old Lady the send off she deserves.
47 Posted 01/07/2021 at 17:48:24
One of the best, most dramatic, football stadiums in the world, is about to become a reality.
48 Posted 01/07/2021 at 17:48:48
Just dig a hole, fill it up with smectite and build lol. Simples!
49 Posted 01/07/2021 at 17:52:12
"Everton's long-awaited Bramley-Moore Dock news can unite fans in time of turmoil"
50 Posted 01/07/2021 at 17:52:18
51 Posted 01/07/2021 at 17:59:58
52 Posted 01/07/2021 at 18:05:14
That and the fact that the air in the city at the time was so dirty that sometimes you couldnt see your hand in front of your face. He said hed get home, blow his nose and itd be black.
I think he lived in a cardboard box in the middle of the road too…
53 Posted 01/07/2021 at 18:07:30
Life is life, people were meant to have different opinions, and its obvious that certain people will never agree with each other, especially over something as emotional as football, until everything comes together that is, and our team finally wins again. Meaning what a gullible fool I am!
54 Posted 01/07/2021 at 18:12:39
Anecdote, A young John Lennon got on his bus one night in town, said he booted him off for having leather trousers on.
55 Posted 01/07/2021 at 18:17:51
56 Posted 01/07/2021 at 18:18:09
I think the water used to go up as far as the old mersey tunnel entrance.
Water street was true to its name.
57 Posted 01/07/2021 at 18:27:56
To allay your fears, Jamie, the degree of settlement is figured in. Contrary to that useless bible thing you keep reading, building on sand is actually the way to go. And any heavy structures will be founded on piles driven or cast into the sand. As Michael says, all standard construction techniques...
But good quality control and quality assurance must still be followed and diligently applied at all stages. Yes, they do know what they are doing...
58 Posted 01/07/2021 at 18:31:33
Meaning the building site gets ring fenced as a site of historical significance.
59 Posted 01/07/2021 at 18:44:46
60 Posted 01/07/2021 at 18:45:25
61 Posted 01/07/2021 at 18:48:57
For the architects out there, and I'm certainly not one, surely the London Docklands and Canary Wharf involved similar construction? As far as I know, they haven't sunk yet.
63 Posted 01/07/2021 at 18:53:01
64 Posted 01/07/2021 at 18:56:17
65 Posted 01/07/2021 at 18:57:18
66 Posted 01/07/2021 at 19:18:07
We speak with an accent extremely rare
If you want a Cathedral we've got one to spare
In my Liverpool home'.
Funny thing is even though I don't live there anymore I will always call it home. Wish I just had half of the money it cost for me and the family to go back for visits.
67 Posted 01/07/2021 at 19:20:29
Over a century ago the George's Dock was infilled and the, so called, Three Graces constructed. Last time I was down there I didn't notice any of them leaning or sinking.
By comparison, infilling BMD should be a doodle with today's modern equipment. Global warming and rising water levels have been factored into the design, too, so you don't have to worry about that, either!
Kristian # 63
Sorry to disappoint you but Everton haven't been sitting on the announcement. The survey work only finished yesterday!
Will # 68. I'd been waiting for a conspiracy post, too. lol Toffeeweb can be so negative!!
Parts of the Overhead structure was still around well into the 1970s and some of the stone pillars have been preserved by the Salthouse Dock. The Dingle Station still exists albeit under a car showroom at the end of Park Road. They use the platforms, or did do, to store cars.
68 Posted 01/07/2021 at 19:21:11
Dave @ 60 - I left Liverpool aged eight in the late sixties, though was back regularly for games and visiting as we only moved to Warrington initially.
I might be wrong and have no older relatives to ask now, but I seem to remember parts of the structure of the overhead rail still in place mid 60s, if not working. Or am I getting confused?
69 Posted 01/07/2021 at 19:27:09
70 Posted 01/07/2021 at 19:31:36
Took a trip to Rhyl to work it out I thought the place was overrun with scousers (it is) but the dialect confused me till I realised it was the natural North Wales accent (listen to Michael Owen for a good example). Trade from there has come through Liverpool for centuries doubtless umpteen families have moved to the city. Mix in the Irish invasion and "viola" - the scouse accent
71 Posted 01/07/2021 at 19:34:26
72 Posted 01/07/2021 at 19:34:39
73 Posted 01/07/2021 at 19:36:40
74 Posted 01/07/2021 at 19:38:00
75 Posted 01/07/2021 at 19:43:00
Nostalgia with a hint of futurism. Wouldn't it be a great idea to implement a new electric skyline train system running along the docks. Maybe from the Albert Dock through to Bramley Moore or even beyond as part of the redevelopment? Similar to what you see in some airports, particularly in the US.
Additional public transport option around the city centre and providing a futuristic flavour of the city's heritage?
76 Posted 01/07/2021 at 19:44:05
I said to my mum years back, I thought I remembered going on the old Runcorn-Widnes transporter bridge. Turns out I was a baby in the cot when it closed, so I guess I imagined it!
77 Posted 01/07/2021 at 19:49:04
Danny, I agree. I'm no rail anorak but I love elevated trains, monorails etc. Every city should have one!
78 Posted 01/07/2021 at 19:56:56
79 Posted 01/07/2021 at 19:58:46
I think this might have went ahead if Liverpool would have got the Commonwealth games, but I still expect some kind of link now that Anfield is going to house over 60.000 fans, although I think Bramley Moore is going to be so much more straightforward, considering its already on a working line.
I wonder if Moorefields will ever get built up again? although it wouldnt surprise me to see hovercrafts on the river Mersey on match days in the future, even if that might sound a bit far-fetched.
80 Posted 01/07/2021 at 20:03:03
I just hope I am still here when that materialises, whenever that may be! Assuming of course that I can get a Ticket! I will indeed be a happy man !
81 Posted 01/07/2021 at 20:03:19
Michael B and Will, thanks for the head's up on that 2008 program. I'm about halfway through it and it's really interesting.
82 Posted 01/07/2021 at 20:16:55
83 Posted 01/07/2021 at 20:19:45
84 Posted 01/07/2021 at 20:38:16
We've got an amazing owner and a first class group of professionals supporting him. Qualities I have no doubt will be mirrored in the project delivery team.
When you go in there for the first time - it will take your breath away.
What an exciting time it is for Evertonians.
85 Posted 01/07/2021 at 20:40:05
86 Posted 01/07/2021 at 20:45:37
87 Posted 01/07/2021 at 20:52:51
I remember the fog; the Widnes/Runcorn Transporter Bridge and of course the Pier Head, which was pretty grim in my youth! The Ferry across to Wallasey I think it was as my relatives all lived on the Wirral.
I can't remember the pub in the city where we used to drink before heading off to the Beachcomber or the Manhattan Club on that hilly road, which I can't recall the name of either at the moment, Mount Street or something like that?
I remember seeing a car with the licence plate Ten 10 parked outside the Manhattan Club and being amazed! Used to see the group the Escorts around those clubs and just to get back to EFC, I never missed a single match.
Can't get back to GP these days but seeing the date of the 26th July for the first steps to BMD gives me goosebumps.
88 Posted 01/07/2021 at 20:56:08
89 Posted 01/07/2021 at 21:07:01
90 Posted 01/07/2021 at 21:16:40
91 Posted 01/07/2021 at 21:27:04
There is some early speculation of 15 million but not known yet could be as low as 6-7.
92 Posted 01/07/2021 at 21:31:19
Thanks for allaying fears. I literally laughed at loud at this:
Contrary to that useless bible thing you keep reading, building on sand is actually the way to go.
I'm not being sarcastic at all, I'm cackling like a hyena. My stomach hurts a bit. Very funny.
Oh Lord above. Some time when TW is slow, we should have an atheist v. God debate. Or if I ever actually meet you, over like 20 beers. Each.
93 Posted 01/07/2021 at 21:38:21
I had no idea about the history of some of the waterside places in Liverpool being filled and having construction on top. Very cool.
Liverpool just sounds like the coolest city. Seriously. I have to get over my fear of flying and get there before my time is up.
Thank you again to all who posted in reply.
94 Posted 01/07/2021 at 21:40:50
95 Posted 01/07/2021 at 21:42:22
96 Posted 01/07/2021 at 21:44:31
I thought youd be aware of that as it was all your former President would talk about.
97 Posted 01/07/2021 at 21:45:28
Not sure, but in the end those who believed in God won the debate!!
98 Posted 01/07/2021 at 21:55:42
99 Posted 01/07/2021 at 22:02:03
TBH...it's a bit like that when you post as well!😊
100 Posted 01/07/2021 at 22:05:42
I filtered that fella, heavily. Plus, even if he said it, would it be true??
Dave A @ 97 -
Of course they won the debate! And yes, there's no atheists or agnostics in fox holes.
That reminds me what my late Grandfather, Robert "Pop" Meagher used to tell me. He flew a B17 bomber in WWII. The common saying while flying was, "God is my co-pilot." Reason being is, as Pop described it to me, it was never like the movies. You didn't fly in and out, weaving about dodging shrapnel explosions all around you.
You just flew straight and prayed.
Will never forget that. Great man, my Pop.
101 Posted 01/07/2021 at 22:18:30
But the midgies were unbearable. I mean they were crawling all over us. We had to pack up before dark and head somewhere else.
I wonder will the elements be a problem here. In the dead of winter the breeze comes in off the Mersey. Its Foggy and damp.
Would the stadium be designed with the elements in mind? I'm sure it will be and if that's the case I'd like to know how.
102 Posted 01/07/2021 at 22:21:32
I also have strong memories of riding on the Overhead. I have been in Canada since 1963 just after we won the League. Been back on a regular basis, almost always to see Everton. You can leave Liverpool but Liverpool never leaves you. From the Pier Head to Clubmoor on the 13 Tram or bus was a regular for me and my mates. Usually we had spent our last penny and we often asked the Conductor to take our names.We used to tell them that we had been robbed or we had lost our money at New Brighton Baths. We were never asked to get off the bus even though the kind conductors must never have believed us.I would love to be able to see that first game in 2024 and keep all great memories alive. I had to cancel our last visit with two of my sons in 2019 due to Covid.
While I am in a pleasant mood and love all things Everton I would like to wave the White flag to Darren Hind who I have verbally battled with too many times. I would like a TRUCE. We are both Evertonians and we need to think together on whatever lies ahead. After the truce, perhaps we can start to disagree again. Hope this doesn't sound too squidgy or sloppy. If it does I can go back to being Ornery. Hope he reads this. WOW that was hard.
103 Posted 01/07/2021 at 22:23:53
104 Posted 01/07/2021 at 22:35:47
105 Posted 01/07/2021 at 22:40:30
106 Posted 01/07/2021 at 22:42:12
The footage in the first Victorian one starts off close to Lime Street and quickly moves to shots of Bramley-Moore Dock.
Not a red in site of course because this was before they existed.
The second one shot in the 30's shows the men high up on the girders opposite the Liver Buildings just walking around without a care in the world, no health and safety, no hard hats, just cloth caps and trilbys.
Neither too long but truly fascinating because they have been colour enhanced and sound has been added.
107 Posted 01/07/2021 at 23:00:09
Why not? A Monorail worked out for Springfield didn't it?
108 Posted 01/07/2021 at 23:09:19
109 Posted 01/07/2021 at 23:27:54
And for the benefit of Michael and Jamie there is actually mention of it in that “useless bible thingy”. “For faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things unseen.” Check it out.
As for me I hope that one day I will enter that stadium with you and your ould fella before I die. It will be great.
110 Posted 01/07/2021 at 23:42:45
I think you and I are on the same hymn sheet - pun intended.
I recall a rather brave comment you made on TW that I agreed wholeheartedly with back in the covid debate days on TW. I won't rehash the subject matter - bit too sensitive. But it entailed the focus of humanity on other definably more tragic deaths in the world.
I didn't forget it, and you immediately became infallible on TW for me.
For the stadium, I hope to enter Goodison before it waves goodbye, and BMD before the bell rings.
111 Posted 01/07/2021 at 00:01:42
112 Posted 01/07/2021 at 00:21:43
You are absolutely correct about the type of material which will be used for infilling the dock.
I retired some years ago after a career in civil engineering as a buyer. In 2004, the firm I worked for had a contract at the Port of Tilbury which involved infilling a redundant dock similar to Bramley-Moore. We used pulverised fuel ash from the nearby coal-fired power station which was available at minimal cost.
We then built the first of several paper handling warehouses on top of the infilled dock. Not a glamorous project like the new stadium and different filling material but the same construction method.
113 Posted 01/07/2021 at 00:28:01
I'm not Belfast so don't often drink in the Crown. But two of my children for reasons I cannot fathom love Belfast and live there... so I'm in Belfast pretty often.
Of course I would like to share a pint... I'll even pay!
114 Posted 02/07/2021 at 00:50:06
Gravenhurst is quite a bit North from us. We live in the Niagara area. It would be worth the drive to possibly meet up. Perhaps in-between. Let me know when you are going there.
Back to Liverpool. One of my favourite places was the Rag House (The Regal) and Norris Green Baths. I also used to go to The Clubmoor. Seems no time ago.
115 Posted 02/07/2021 at 01:11:58
As you come in on the train you're surrounded by cliff height sandstone cuttings.
The dock wall has held back a river with a 32ft tidal range for 170 yesrs, its not just sat there like big lego pieces, its anchored to the bedrock.
They will drill down into it.
Stopping the River leaking back into the building site will be the harder part. Finance – as is usual – will be the hardest problem, not the engineering.
116 Posted 02/07/2021 at 01:57:37
117 Posted 02/07/2021 at 06:12:06
118 Posted 02/07/2021 at 07:30:24
119 Posted 02/07/2021 at 07:51:56
Liverpool is changing, its becoming so much more multi-cultural now, (John Lennon - Imagine, Im sure hell come into the debate on God) but this can only be a good thing, its the only way the city can grow, but Goodison Pk, still retains that old scouse everything Jamie, and even though Im delighted to be going to Bramley Moore, take it from me mate, “ youve got to see Goodison Pk, under the floodlights, especially if its one of those games, when the Everton crowd really unite!
120 Posted 02/07/2021 at 07:53:44
If Rafa is still with us when we move into BMD then it will surely mean we have won something major !
121 Posted 02/07/2021 at 08:10:06
But so what? Either way, this announcement was going to be made and the stadium plans are massive positive for this club of ours. Pleased to see progress and I don't link this to the current managerial appointment. The timing of the announcement? Okay, maybe. But the stadium? In flight way before Benitez was even an embryonic thought.
122 Posted 02/07/2021 at 08:58:57
I heard we were allegedly chasing him, good player but £50 M when Ben Godfrey cost less than half of that !
123 Posted 02/07/2021 at 09:11:43
The talk of the accent always intrigues me as the Scouse one is so unique and so geographically enclosed compared to others which tend to spread and fade over a wider area if that makes sense? From my experience, you can move 3 miles away from Speke to Widnes or from Huyton to St Helens and there is a significant shift in accent.
I'm a bit of a language geek, so always interested in dialects and accents. I always assumed that the Scouse accent was originally based on a Lancashire one but had been heavily influenced by the Irish immigration of the 19th century as well as close links to North East Wales. The latter makes sense when you hear people from Wrexham speak. I'd say they sound closer to Scouse than Welsh.
I've not done my research, but I also think it was influenced by the sea faring nature of the City, particularly Scandinaivans? Someone more educated will have to confirm, but isn't that where the term Scouse and the associated local dish comes from??
124 Posted 02/07/2021 at 09:13:21
Rafa has been hired as a piledriver, there's no way the infill will be a problem.
Looking forward to the time lapse coverage of the build.
Undoubtedly there will be issues, but every building project encounters them; the constructors will have assessed all the risks and price accordingly.
But this is exciting; personally love the design, the location is outstanding..or will be!
Nil Satis Nisi Optimum...
125 Posted 02/07/2021 at 09:22:56
Try ‘Scouse:A Social And Cultural History by Tony Crowley. Its written a bit academic in its early stages, but its pretty informative.
126 Posted 02/07/2021 at 09:49:38
Tony@119: Good post. Goodison can make the hairs stand up on the back of your neck. Lets hope the new stadium will carry that on.
127 Posted 02/07/2021 at 10:02:14
broader but thats just rule of thumb and just my opinion. For lfc accent see Hagar the horrible more Oslo twang.
128 Posted 02/07/2021 at 10:06:27
129 Posted 02/07/2021 at 10:08:45
Stan, Brian, yes, it does vary according to area. I personally never noticed a north / south city difference, more the area. I think the north / south difference reflects that as the south of the city has a larger percentage of the more affluent areas. Woolton, Hunts Cross, Allerton, Mossley Hill, Childwall etc. My family is from Speke and Garston but you can tell the shift in accent from Speke compared to when I lived in Woolton. That's 2 miles from Speke and I could walk to my mum's house from there. I guess the same could apply to Bootle and Crosby?
Thinking of Woolton, I always used to point out Howard Kendall's apprarent old house to my son whenever we passed it in the car or on the 81 bus. I don't know if it's still there, but there was a St Rupert's Tower stain glass decorative at the side of the front door.
Local myth maybe, but it was known as Howard's old house.
130 Posted 02/07/2021 at 10:23:41
131 Posted 02/07/2021 at 11:01:56
132 Posted 02/07/2021 at 14:35:17
Stadium is piled down to the underlying sandstone, as referred to in a couple of the previous posts.
You can direct your structural engineering queries this way; its been the day job for 20 years!
133 Posted 02/07/2021 at 15:25:50
134 Posted 02/07/2021 at 15:39:12
135 Posted 02/07/2021 at 15:51:53
136 Posted 02/07/2021 at 16:38:30
A lot of the the instruments in lighthouses around Australia were also made in Middlesbrough so the Smoggies were a busy lot all them years ago.
Brian and Bill.
We moved up to Sparrow Hall from St Anne Street in 77 so spent my teenage years in and around Norris Green. Apparently there was not one single pub registered in Noggsy as they were all on the boundary.
As for the crown, well it was my local but my regular was the Black Bull were my best mate lived nearby.
Spent a bit of time in the Crown though and there was one time when the coppers put a last orders restriction at 9.40pm because of constant trouble. It didnt make much difference though as we just got six pints each and sat there till midnight drinking warm beer. Its hard to look back at shit like that because you just shake your head and think WTF..
On the subject of accents. I went the match for years with mates from Norris Green, Fazakerley, Kirkby, Walton and Scotland Road. I suppose everyone has there own tone so the accent can be seen as different but there was one lad from Kirkby who was actually very hard to understand because he hardly moved his lips. He was like a foreigner amongst the crowd. Great gang of lads though and it was the laugh we had that made the match day special.
Looking forward to getting home and seeing them all again when this COVID is finally contained.
137 Posted 02/07/2021 at 16:42:50
138 Posted 02/07/2021 at 17:03:03
St Anne Street rang a bell so I talked to my wife who remembered it. Before moving to Croxteth, they lived in the 4 squares, Queen Anne Place and used to walk down to Queen Anne Street to go downtown. Small World: a man commentating from Australia and a woman in Canada remembering her childhood.
139 Posted 02/07/2021 at 17:12:32
140 Posted 02/07/2021 at 17:20:51
141 Posted 02/07/2021 at 17:27:59
142 Posted 02/07/2021 at 17:48:17
143 Posted 02/07/2021 at 17:51:02
When the Crown was built the married owners were Catholic and Protestant. The story goes that the Protestant wanted something regal to do with the monarchy about the bar, so the Catholic agreed to have a mosaic of the crown outside the entrance to the bar. But the irony for the Catholic half of the marriage was that everyone walking into the bar had to walk on the crown, therefore disrespecting it in their eyes.
In any case, worth a visit as Guinness is very good.
144 Posted 02/07/2021 at 17:53:17
145 Posted 02/07/2021 at 18:18:19
A couple of years ago I got an email from a girl I dated at school 45 years ago, I hadn't seen her since. We arranged to meet and catch up on old times in The Crown. I was there early sat at the bar. She came in, still gorgeous, had a good look round walked right past me and went to leave. I called after her. The look on her face was magnificent. Seems I hadn't aged quite as well as I thought.
146 Posted 02/07/2021 at 19:19:09
Bill was talking about the Crown near the Sparrow Hall estate in Liverpool.
147 Posted 02/07/2021 at 19:25:10
148 Posted 02/07/2021 at 19:50:49
149 Posted 02/07/2021 at 20:03:48
150 Posted 02/07/2021 at 20:08:15
In later years it was the only place I've ever seen with a double bar...a moat between where you got your ale and where it was pulled. You could buy anything there that had been made on the industrial estate up Long Lane.
Burnt down and demolished a while back I think.
151 Posted 02/07/2021 at 21:35:14
The whole area desperately needs some form of rejuvenation and as had been commented on before the road system seems to need significant upgrading.
Called Inthe Bramley House for a quick drink before walking back into the city.
There's probably people who walk a bit faster than me but I'm not a slow walker and it took me between 20 to 25 minutes to walk from The Bramley House to the Liver Building.
Can't wait to attend the first game.
152 Posted 03/07/2021 at 00:57:01
My mam had a pub in Cazneau Street, The Denbigh Castle. That area around the 4 Squares, Gerard Gardens was our playground as kids.
The pub actually got knocked down last year along with St Joseph's School. They are actually going to build the new Police Station on it.
I walked around there a couple of years ago when I was home from Australia and it's sad to see that history disappear. Just great memories now.
Back to the Crown. The Fitzy's had it for a few years and someone changed the name of the upstairs bar to Rembrants. Yes, they missed the 'd' out… which was apt given that the only artists in there were piss artists. It was finally bowled over a few years ago, much to the relief of the residents nearby.
153 Posted 03/07/2021 at 03:56:03
Yeah, my dad's nephew, Anto. I went everywhere with him, ie, Bayern semi-fina, Rotterdam etc. Strangely my first memory going the match was with him at the Chelsea title season in 1969, Lower Bullens: 5-2 – Bally ran amok.
Usually my dad (the major) took me and Tony, home and away. Franny Garvey, his bro was a good boxer. An injury to his hand curtailed his career a bit but he would still wipe out any mouthy kopites in the farmers four at a time, no problem.
Anto was no mug either. Respiratory problem on a Sunday and he was too stubborn to go the hospital. Could easily have been saved but he didn't fancy going cos of all them loons in the Royal Hospital etc. Stubborn to the end. We never bothered much going the Crown really.
154 Posted 03/07/2021 at 08:30:31
When you look at the architectural picture, can anybody honestly not say, "Wow! The best in the entire UK and Europe"?
Let's be proud of this and the entire Liverpool city project. I have lived in Adelaide for 34 years but my real home is the whole of Merseyside. My missus and I looked around Bramley-Moore Dock a couple of years ago on a retirement trip. Looked so awful and jaded. So, two fingers to the heritage dick-brains. This stadium will be a fantastic attraction not only for Everton but for anybody visiting Liverpool.
Dan Meiss, thanks for your brilliance in architecture. Your foresight is way beyond the norm. I hope I remain fit enough to travel back to the homeland and to watch a game at the new home of Everton FC.
155 Posted 03/07/2021 at 08:38:53
Like you so rightly mentioned, the place was an absolute eyesore, before this project was even mentioned, and it can only be good for the area in respect of jobs and rejuvenation.
Also agree – the more I see it, the more I am in awe! 👍
156 Posted 03/07/2021 at 09:40:39
3 years to go, but I'll be happy even if it's 4.
157 Posted 03/07/2021 at 11:09:48
Yes “Franny” that was him, never met him, knew him through his boxing, I was a recorder for The Everton Red Triangle ABC so used to have a seat close up to the ring, youd see some boxers take a good punch and theyd fold, give up, then youd see some like Franny take a real good punch and it would invigorate them see it on their face, pull themselves together and go after their opponent and give them plenty back, but always in a controlled way, made for a good fight.
158 Posted 03/07/2021 at 15:02:09
Last time I made it home was 2014 but, due to medical problems, mainly my heart, that slowed me down a bit, and that curtailed my travels. Getting over it and now the new ground is on my bucket list. Here is hoping there will be no major delays.
159 Posted 03/07/2021 at 16:35:10
But to the tangents: like Danny O'Neill I'm a Speke boy who ended up in Woolton/Allerton and like some posters I have always detected a difference in the accents of North Liverpool and the South End. I think I first became vaguely aware of this at the age of 11 and travelling across the city to attend Cardinal Allen, alma mater to the White Pele.
Although it was a grammar school CA was the most socially mixed comprehensive school you could ever have imagined. Suddenly, after growing up in the semi rural Speke of the 1950's (I kid you not), I was mixing with lads from Kirkdale and Kenny, Scotty Road and County Road and there were times at first when I did not have a clue what they were on about. We must have overcome this, however, because some of them have been lifelong friends.
I am no student of phonetics but it seems to me that the accent softens slightly in South Liverpool. Nor am I saying that this is a good thing (or a bad thing), it's merely an observation based on living in the city and having taught in schools at polar ends of Liverpool. I'm not a sociologist either but there could be something in the comments I've read about the influence of socio-economic status on the accent.
I was particularly interested, I don't know why, in the references to some of the old pubs around the place and I just wanted to steer you to some brilliant films that you'll enjoy if you enjoyed reading the comments on this thread. Whether you live here, are an exiled Scouser, an honorary Scouser like Andy Crooks or just someone whose love of EFC has made you interested in the city please seek out these films if you have not yet seen them:
Terence Davies, born Wavertree 1945, is the writer and director of each film. "Distant Voices, Still Lives" and "The Long Day Closes" are autobiographical films about growing up in Liverpool in the 1940's and 50's. Be prepared to be shocked at how poor we were. Brilliantly written and acted, they are not necessarily what I'd call feelgood films. Then there is the wonderful, elegaic documentary narrated by Terence himself, "Of Time and The City." Without doubt the best film history of any city, and yes I am biased! It will give you goosebumps.
160 Posted 03/07/2021 at 16:51:07
Speke is interesting. My mother was born in 1947 and grew up in Speke. Initially near to St Ambrose Church and then in the Prefabs. When we moved back following my Dad's military service, we eventually ended up in School Way before she then moved onto the regenerated Dymchurch estate literally on the site of the Prefab she had spent much of her early life.
She had a much softer accent than the one you hear in Speke today, so I guess that's a result of families from other parts of the city being moved to places like Speke as it was being developed after the war? Her father and mother (my Grandparents) were from Belfast and Glasgow respectively, so no Liverpool roots.
Thanks for the tips. I love history in general, but I love Liverpool history.
161 Posted 03/07/2021 at 17:15:10
My mistake by the way; I believe Terence Davies grew up in Kensington not Wavertree.
162 Posted 04/07/2021 at 12:59:44
I can do a decent scouse accent which I find helps when trying to get served in pubs and chatting to locals.
163 Posted 04/07/2021 at 16:25:39
3 great films. Ill have to dig out ‘Of Time and the City, Ive not watched it in years, and youve reminded me how good it is. Yes it gets to you alright. ‘Thou art Peter and youre a brick, from memory.
I was at Cardinal Allen from 59-66, so a contemporary of Colin Harvey but he was a couple of years ahead of me, but playing for Everton B even then.
We actually played for the same team once. It was 16 a side in Germany on a school trip, youth hosteling in Bavaria. Against a load of German lads. We won 1-0 I think. It was going dark at the time, so hard to tell.
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