Following a secret ballot
at the latest session of the World Heritage Committee China today, the heritage body declared that the “outstanding universal value” of Liverpool's Maritime Mercantile City has been irrevocably compromised by new construction, including plans for Everton's new 52,000-seater stadium at Bramley-Moore Dock.
The decision is seen by many as a blow for the city's prestige and tourism, particularly as Liverpool is only the third place to lose World Heritage Status in nearly 50 years while others have long regarded Unesco and the heritage site designation as holding back progress and development on the waterfront.
Liverpool's waterfront has held World Heritage Site status for 17 years in recognition of its role in the Industrial Revolution and the rapid expansion of Britain's maritime power but in the wake of redevelopment of the southern docks, and Peel Holdings' plans for a £5bn redevelopment scheme on the city's north docks, Liverpool has been under threat of being delisted for almost a decade.
Everton went to significant lengths in the plans and designs for Bramley-Moore Dock to propose a structure that complimented the surrounding docklands and consultated domestic groups like English Heritage whose concerns centred on the infilling of the Grade II-listed dock as well as the existing structures at the site.
The club have included measures in their construction plans aimed as minimising the impact on the dock walls and plan to refurbish the old bell tower that stands at Bramley-Moore Dock.
Reader Comments (194)
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1 Posted 21/07/2021 at 10:54:21
2 Posted 21/07/2021 at 11:04:44
Unesco has just voted to remove Liverpool's World Heritage Site status.
It removes a millstone from around the city's neck and means we should be able to develop Bramley-Moore Dock more easily.
3 Posted 21/07/2021 at 11:23:34
I love history but these clowns seem a typical Ivory Tower organisation full of temperamental trust-fund wallahs without a day's work among them. Won't make a jot of difference to the vast majority of tourists looking to visit the city.
At least they can't be poking around the new stadium now – infantile brats!
5 Posted 21/07/2021 at 11:32:18
When they built the 3 graces, I doubt there was concern that it was, in the context of time and history, bold and ambitious or replaced whatever was there previously. They made history and and a landmark waterfront now known the world over.
I have for long been concerned that, whilst it is positive Liverpool capitalised on its history to promote tourism, it was in danger of becoming a one trick pony and over reliant on the hospitality industry.
35 miles down the East Lancs, Manchester has reinvented itself as the UK's default 2nd city. Financial services, business, media, prominent Government agencies including intelligence setting up satellite locations there. And yes, hospitality alongside a major international airport.
They are 30 years ahead of us, but I see this as an opportunity to reinvent and realise the potential of our great city. Just as Everton need to stop being plucky little Everton, the city of Liverpool should shed the shackles and be confident. We didn't become the second city of the British Empire, let alone the UK by standing still.
Sorry, I can get almost as passionate about the city as I can Everton. Almost.
6 Posted 21/07/2021 at 11:36:53
7 Posted 21/07/2021 at 11:38:45
8 Posted 21/07/2021 at 11:41:18
It's fair though, there's always a balance between progress and respecting historical landmarks.
Good lord, we're sounding like Prince Charles circa 1985!
9 Posted 21/07/2021 at 11:41:22
10 Posted 21/07/2021 at 11:42:45
11 Posted 21/07/2021 at 11:47:15
Its a joke. These people are happy to see parts of the city stay the way they have for decades. I hope the city wipes its hand clean of this and realises we may be better off without it.
12 Posted 21/07/2021 at 11:47:31
Nobody goes to a city because of UNESCO status.
I'm sure this will lead to even more new investment in the city and we'll see the sort of impressive developments it so richly deserves.
Mabey Usmanov fancies building a new skyscraper with royal blue glass? That'd be nice...
13 Posted 21/07/2021 at 11:49:16
14 Posted 21/07/2021 at 11:50:59
And we get to embellish what we already have north of the Pier Head. All gain to us, then.
15 Posted 21/07/2021 at 11:51:37
How come you were in China to make this decision ? Did you ask about the Weigur people whilst you were there by any chance. They have a heritageand culture that needs to be be preserved or don't people count in your line of work ?
16 Posted 21/07/2021 at 11:53:23
That made me think Donald Trump and Biff Tannen from Back to the Future II!!
17 Posted 21/07/2021 at 12:01:02
18 Posted 21/07/2021 at 12:01:12
19 Posted 21/07/2021 at 12:01:15
20 Posted 21/07/2021 at 12:09:55
Sounds great at the time but in the grand scheme of things utterly pointless.
21 Posted 21/07/2021 at 12:10:06
It could be a phallic shape symbolising why we're the daddy of Merseyside.
23 Posted 21/07/2021 at 12:22:16
24 Posted 21/07/2021 at 12:24:08
25 Posted 21/07/2021 at 12:25:58
Compared with such positive progress, the opinions of a few blinkered individuals in organisations like UNESCO matter little.
26 Posted 21/07/2021 at 12:26:32
Which can, on its own, tell you everything there is to see about the original 7miles of docks...sees its arse and symbolically removes its metaphorical 'Blue Plaque'.
Leaving the docks to still rot and rust – thus freeing them up for others to invest and repurpose them.
27 Posted 21/07/2021 at 12:29:02
As mentioned previously without being held to ransom by the World Heritage Organisation our great City will now be able to grow and develop and not stagnate.
To choose to leave a derelict run down dock site in such a state would have been a crime. To develop and grow it into a thriving area will be a triumph.
We can now look forward to what will be an area that we can be proud of with the work being completed on the Strand followed by a new cruise terminal, the great site of a new stadium and lots of new developments from Peel Holdings in the area.
Liverpool will be a magnet for tourists and a great sight to see from the many cruise ships which will be coming to our port.
Will we get fewer visitors because of their decision? NO
Will our great city be thought of differently by people around the world? NO
Will we lose out on a money contributions from UNESCO? NO
Will they come back cap in hand in the future to ask us to become a UNESC site again? DEFINATELY YES
28 Posted 21/07/2021 at 12:33:46
20 votes cast. Thirteen votes to take away status, five against and 2 votes invalid? Possibly the 2 invalid votes show the intelect of these halfwits
Really in the scheme of things who gives a shit?
I've not met a single person who told me they were visiting because of our World Heritage Status.
Would they really prefer the City not to progress and allow buildings and areas to crumble.
We allowed our own council to ruin our City in the 50's and 60's we don't need a bunch of whoevers from wherever doing the same today.
29 Posted 21/07/2021 at 12:41:33
Then there was literally a thin line along the road to where BMD is with the dockland area then included. Literally a road and then some derelict docks detached from the main site.
Not that I'm bothered as I don't think it matters, bit they could have cut that bit out I'd so bothered by redevelopment that doesn't impact the centre itself?
And as Michael said, they didn't seem bothered by all the new hotels and offices that sprung up in the 2000s.
Victim mentality here, but Everton's stadium seems to have caused big objections for some reason??
30 Posted 21/07/2021 at 12:42:45
Have any of those voting against ever been to Liverpool on a freebie and - if so - was a cruise trip to Bramley Moore dock on their itinerary ? Thought not!
31 Posted 21/07/2021 at 12:44:03
The talented mindsets that designed and built the Three Graces have long since gone.
All designs now are formulaic, spreadsheet dominated and have been done somewhere else previously, but with a few slight changes for the new location.
Soulless and effortlessly thoughtless is the only way to describe most of what rises up these days.
32 Posted 21/07/2021 at 12:47:46
They only amended their previous application to lower the height to appease UNESCO. As some of you may remember the old Clarence Dock power station was taller than the proposed BMD stadium.
33 Posted 21/07/2021 at 12:53:15
34 Posted 21/07/2021 at 13:05:24
35 Posted 21/07/2021 at 13:05:33
That is very true but they wont be able to say that about our new stadium. Dan Meis has done us and the City of Liverpool proud.
Hopefully it will set the standard for the rest of the development.
36 Posted 21/07/2021 at 13:11:01
37 Posted 21/07/2021 at 13:12:46
“Infantile brats” - “who gives a flying fuck” - “its a joke” - “UNESCO get over yourselves” - “apple polishers and fart catchers” - “tell them to fuck off” - “great news in my opinion”.
I think UNESCO might have underestimated the impact their decision would have on the blue half of Merseyside - especially the RS supporting Norwegian who called for a secret ballot - what was he trying to hide?
Left my home city many years ago but it still fills me with pride to tell people where I am from.
38 Posted 21/07/2021 at 13:13:44
And when you're not you're not.
39 Posted 21/07/2021 at 13:13:45
Large area's have been closed off for decades. Some parts have been tastefully reinvented for public access. Unfortunately many parts remain off limits, decayed, dangerous and or used for industrial activities.
If it now means the area can be cleaned up, invested in and opened up to the public then great.
It should be a co-ordinated plan to ensure it is tasteful, fitting and kept open and spacious so it's history can be remembered but more importantly used for the next 100 years.
I believe our BMD plans fit in well. What I don't want is a dozen sky scrapers being built which would lose the maritime feel and open views that are special to the area.
40 Posted 21/07/2021 at 13:21:45
41 Posted 21/07/2021 at 13:22:28
Shame on them for being myopic in the extreme, and good riddance.
42 Posted 21/07/2021 at 13:31:20
The northern docks are derelict and ugly. Most of the old dockside warehouses and workplaces have gone, replaced, if at all, by plastic coated aluminium monstrosities. The architecture of Princes Dock may not be outstanding but it is clean and not unpleasant. I quite like it. A city is a living organism and cannot be preserved in aspic. The new stadium will breathe life into an area of the city which at present offers nothing to the people who live there.
In other words, fuck off UNESCO, who cares!
43 Posted 21/07/2021 at 13:31:46
Well said - and I think that sums it up perfectly and probably leaves nothing more to be said.
44 Posted 21/07/2021 at 13:37:01
45 Posted 21/07/2021 at 13:39:10
46 Posted 21/07/2021 at 13:42:08
What a bunch of reactionist buffoons, posing as experts and journalists, we have in this country. Stuck in the 19th Century, trying to pretend that progress is only acceptable in the capital city and worried that every pound invested in our city is somehow detrimental to their precious London bubble.
A fact that was emphasised by Boris Johnson when he had to reassure the richer counties that his policy of 'levelling up' wouldn't automatically make their areas poorer. According to some, the South East pays the taxes and the North West shouldn't get to spend any of it.
Can anybody name five places in England that have World Heritage status? and more importantly what this 'honour' actually adds?
I bet there are hundreds of places including Buckingham Palace, that attract tourists and investment in England without having some faceless bunch of people bestow a meaningless honour on them.
47 Posted 21/07/2021 at 13:44:58
48 Posted 21/07/2021 at 13:45:56
49 Posted 21/07/2021 at 13:50:16
Nothing like the good old days is there. . Maybe we can bring back ringworm and smallpox.
World heritage pricks.
50 Posted 21/07/2021 at 13:52:11
51 Posted 21/07/2021 at 13:55:26
Add a pair of giant pink glass spheres, one either side of the base, with KISS written on the first one and THESE written on the second.
52 Posted 21/07/2021 at 13:59:14
53 Posted 21/07/2021 at 14:04:46
54 Posted 21/07/2021 at 14:17:31
I look forward to their future decisions on World Heritage sites in Guatemala and Uganda where visitors can experience the joys of having their limbs chopped off or their heads blown off. Or maybe a UNESCO tour of China's purpose built re-education facilities with state of the art interrogation rooms.
We should cut our UN contributions to a level commensurate with those of economies far bigger than ours and spend the money saved actually preserving our own heritage rather than the lifestyles of this bunch of crooked wasters. Time to trim the UN squad.
55 Posted 21/07/2021 at 14:28:31
The proposed development, including the new EFC stadium, will brighten the entire area.
So, China and the lilly-livered group that weaselled out to support them, GGF from my wife and me.
The City of Liverpool will rise from the ashes on the back of this and other derelict keepsakes to become the great city it was always in the past.
C'mon Everton, you are leading the way!!!
56 Posted 21/07/2021 at 14:48:42
Having a lovely bunch of old buildings is fine, but people need jobs, places to live and work.
Preserve as much as possible through considerate planning. But not to such a degree that it prevents development.
57 Posted 21/07/2021 at 15:04:10
58 Posted 21/07/2021 at 15:06:50
59 Posted 21/07/2021 at 15:09:11
Kevin #24, thanks for posting that article. It's a very illuminating commentary.
John #54, nice anti-UN rant, but UNESCO is a financially tiny agency, with a pocket-change annual budget of around $600 million, most of it raised from its member states and donations from NGAs like the World Heritage Fund. Your tax dollars aren't supporting UNESCO.
60 Posted 21/07/2021 at 15:09:14
Liverpool is a thriving City, let us not forget, they have only had the Heritage tag since 2004, people before 2004 were visiting Liverpool in large numbers, for the City, the Football, the music, you name it.
People did not just turn up in Liverpool after 2004, because it suddenly had a title.
Be thankful the City only got the status in 2004, can you imagine the Albert docks back then, not getting the go ahead in the eighties, to be restored with the threat of losing its World heritage status.
Now the City has lost its Albatross, hanging around their necks, the City can now revamp a run down area of the docks, and beyond.
One final thought, Everton had to do a slight modification on the stadium height, if I remember, so does this now mean we will no longer have to abide by them, and build it higher if needed.
61 Posted 21/07/2021 at 15:14:36
Mike Gaynes is right that UNESCO has little money: presumably why they have not visited to see how needed the stadium is. And of course they (and the likes of Jenkins) will not give Liverpool a red (or blue) cent to improve our lot.
62 Posted 21/07/2021 at 15:15:01
It seems strange that since Liverpool has been given this title in 2004,there has been a number of redevelopments along the dock areas but it has taken the design of a football stadium with a number of heritage sites on it preserved, for this society to remove the title of a World Heritage Site.
Why a secret vote, ? and why so close to the start of the construction of this stadium ?
It sounds like the British Historical Society are still upset they never got their own way and have asked big brother to step in.
63 Posted 21/07/2021 at 15:31:50
a) the stadium is a good 3/4 mile from the Pier Head
b) the site is derilict and an eyesore,
c) the Liver Buildings, Cunard Building and the Mersey Dock and Harbour Board Building were built on a filled-in St Georges Dock and are “new” and not related to Liverpools maritime history.
St Georges Hall, Picton Library, Walker Art Gallery: fabulous buildings. Are they not, in themselves, deserving of some kind of blue plaque?
I could go on and on…..
Short sighted. Its not BMD thats the issue: the waterfront is developing to meet the needs of Liverpool in C21st. I do think the museum next to MDHB is a carbuncle though!
Laying the blame at BMD is a cheap shot, why are we not blaming the building of a Crowne Plaza next to the Liver Buildings? Back in 2012, Liverpool was threatened with loss of its UNESCO designation when ‘BMD was really going to be the edge of a Tesco car park in Kirby.
Is anyone really bothered by this?
64 Posted 21/07/2021 at 15:35:09
65 Posted 21/07/2021 at 15:49:16
66 Posted 21/07/2021 at 15:57:46
67 Posted 21/07/2021 at 16:06:45
The city has reflected and acknowledged its maritime history the good and the bad.
Most tourists seem to visit Liverpool with regard to its history of popular culture the main attractions being football and music.
The docks fell into disrepair mainly because of the "managed decline" by successive governments coincidental to our increased trade with Europe rather than former colonies.
The local community is in need of investment this will have wider economic benefits for the people from that area.
68 Posted 21/07/2021 at 16:09:23
Just how much of the Victorian Docks should be saved as against the economic revival of the city in general?
The city belongs to its inhabitants and they have given the new stadium their support [even many koppites]. They have spoken!
69 Posted 21/07/2021 at 16:17:41
Also, having decisions being made by countries like Guatemala, who weren't even a country when the docks were originally built.
70 Posted 21/07/2021 at 16:22:56
71 Posted 21/07/2021 at 16:24:55
72 Posted 21/07/2021 at 16:55:44
73 Posted 21/07/2021 at 17:06:53
It's derelict in terms of growing prosperity and has been for far too long. Yes, some of the architecture of the new buildings may not be glorious but they stand where emptiness once thrived.
Hell, I'm sick of Westminster sticking denigrating the city so to have some committee sitting in China now try to do us down is like water off a duck's back to me.
74 Posted 21/07/2021 at 17:17:57
As some have said this threat has been hanging over the city like the sword of Damocles for many years before the Everton development was even thought about. These pricks would sooner have a rotting eyesore preserved in aspic than allow regeneration.
Ironic that these types of people would probably have been the types to block the original development of the waterfront in the first place.
75 Posted 21/07/2021 at 17:20:49
See, no-ones put a spade in the ground at BMD yet. No heritage has been destroyed (yet!) If the World Heritage status really has been stripped because of the BMD development, surely it would have made sense to wait until building works actually damaged the remains of the dock.
Im not buying the public story. The three graces are still there. Albert Dock is still there, and better than it over was.
Surely the Museum of Liverpool damaged the waterfront much more than BMD will, given that its so close to those famous buildings. Also, the onyx black Mann Island development. Or how about Atlantic Tower? All of these huge developments are much more central than BMD - which is a respectful design being built on the ruins of a dock which has lain empty for decades.
And, as other have said, if World Heritage Status is more of a millstone around our collective necks than a platform for regeneration then sod it. UNESCO can shove it where Amon-Ra doesnt shine.
76 Posted 21/07/2021 at 17:25:39
See how Edinburgh retained its World Heritage listing, even with the building of a hotel seen from any angle shot of the memorable city, lovingly nicknamed by locals as...
77 Posted 21/07/2021 at 17:51:45
"Apparently, then, Unesco did not buy into the view that Everton have demonstrated their eagerness to preserve history by signing Andros Townsend and Asmir Begovic."
78 Posted 21/07/2021 at 17:56:01
Lol thats funny
79 Posted 21/07/2021 at 18:07:54
Spade went into the ground today. On site presence, deliveries etc. Photos online for those who want to see them
80 Posted 21/07/2021 at 18:11:54
As I grew up, like many other kids, we went down Sandhills and played around all the derelict warehouses, ollers and the canal. What was left of the docks after, a) the bombing and b) Seaforth Container base opening up for the much bigger Container ships, then Clarence Dock Power Station getting flattened, Tate and Lyle refinery going, and the Warehouses being left empty, the North End of the Dock system had bits and bobs (one dock had a yacht club, the dock area was just left for scrap yards sending metal to China and not much else.
When Liverpool got Objective money from europe, most of it got spent down the South End and Town. The North end got scruffier, with car boot sales, small businesses and not much else providing employment.
Because of the proposed development by Peel holdings and Everton football club, the biggest, brick built building in Europe (the Old Tobbacco warehouse) which had trees growing out the top, is now being developed and aopartment are being offered for sale and the starting prices begin at £250,000. If anybody isn't aware of the site of the old warehouse, it's right across the road from our ground!
So money, big money, is pouring into the area around the proposed development. and the title "world heritage" means Sweet Fanny Adams to the buyers queuing up to buy properties around our ground.
The City Councils, Liberal or Labour, have ruled the city for decades. If you want to see the difference between the South End and the North End of the City, just look at the differnce.
As far as the benefit that World Heritage has given the North End of our city. It has meant absolutely Nothing!
I read the article in the Guardian, and he can go and piss off as well.
The people of Liverpool have voted massively for our new stadium to be the cornerstone of the Liverpool Waters development.
Just ask us what we think about the bloody middle class pricks wittering on about our world class heritage! I am sure we will be polite and tell them to piss off as well!
81 Posted 21/07/2021 at 18:18:15
I'm no architect or artist, but I'll have a go. If anything, Everton has pulled a blinder with that design.
Not only will it trigger further redevelopment for a neglected part of the city that has been screaming out for it for decades, if they'd have bothered to study closely rather than throw their dummy out of the pram, whilst futuristic, it respects the city's heritage. It appears like a ship pointing out to the Irish Sea like many that departed the port of Liverpool. And the brickwork resembles that of the dock warehouses that were once resident on that dock and many others apart from the renovated Albert Dock.
Who cares. It's our city. And I'll caveat again, I'm no architect. It's probably based on a spaceship!!
82 Posted 21/07/2021 at 18:23:08
Those that raised and supported objections, have achieved nothing as regards influencing the future dock development. They could be described as redundant.
83 Posted 21/07/2021 at 18:25:12
Even our signings have been uninspiring.
I fully expect to see the headlines tomorrow and find out that weve been laundering drugs money, sending the youth team to sweep chimneys, and using dog food in the scouse pies.
Everton (all of) that.
84 Posted 21/07/2021 at 18:32:31
All of the things that have happened recently, apart from the new manager and the new signings, Everton has had no control over, much the same as the European ban and many of the other misfortunes that have beset the club over the years. I would be surprised if the scouse pies were laced with dog food though, it's pretty expensive these days.
85 Posted 21/07/2021 at 18:33:49
I guess the academics may want to see less intrusive (as they see it) development. I think that Peel Holdings, and other developers and investors, including our owner, want to see a thriving North end. So do I.
I think it's gone past the stage of working together, there appears to be fundamental differences. So I hope the Council go ahead with the developers and if UNESCO don't like the plans...then they can do one!
86 Posted 21/07/2021 at 18:38:27
Have you not seen some of the stuff in the papers that Liverpool Council has been accused of? Theyve got independent people, appointed by the government heavily involved in its running now.
People have been arrested and have not been charged. But its possibly not been a model of good governance and operating properly at acceptable standards for a while.
Good article in the Guardian covering all this.
87 Posted 21/07/2021 at 18:40:04
88 Posted 21/07/2021 at 19:00:07
Where was UNESCO when some of our finest buildings were torn down eg The Cavern, St. Georges Place, the Goree Warehouse, Bibbys Warehouse, Central Station etc…. Nowhere to be seen!! But as soon as the city wants to redevelop in a positive way ie The Scouse Manhattan, then all these useless, worthless, do-gooders pop up from the Gobi to the fucking Sahara deserts!
They can all do one as far as Im concerned. Onwards and upwards!
Forgot the Mahdi Gras club and the David Lewis theatre.
89 Posted 21/07/2021 at 19:21:56
90 Posted 21/07/2021 at 19:34:39
Simon Jenkins in the Guardian got it wrong about West Ham Uniteds use of the Olympic Stadium “sucking the life” out of the Stratford area. In fact it is the centre of a massive multi-billion pound regeneration of a deprived area, with plans for flats, recreation facilities, art galleries and a university.
If UNESCO think redeveloping a derelict dock miles from the Three Graces is wrong then it just shows how little they know.
91 Posted 21/07/2021 at 19:59:25
92 Posted 21/07/2021 at 20:04:19
93 Posted 21/07/2021 at 20:34:14
94 Posted 21/07/2021 at 21:06:30
95 Posted 21/07/2021 at 21:20:06
96 Posted 21/07/2021 at 21:29:37
Is there a appeal progress. I can't believe there is no come back.
Read Jims post first. No I am not familiar. Did know the leader of the Council that was going to help Everton fund the Stadium, went down arrested. Did not known it went further as you describe. Thank you for the info and link. Starting to make more sense.
I am not in favour of sanitised History. What has happen has happened, learn from acknowledge redress appropriately and move on , allowing others in the future to do the same. But do not pretend to eradicate as if you are helping someone today.
97 Posted 21/07/2021 at 21:49:29
We provided the shipping to transport Africans to the New World. In return we imported cotton, sugar, tobacco etc.
Hence Tate and Lyle, BAT, etc having huge plant in Liverpool.
During the Civil War Liverpool merchants supported the Southern slave owning plantation system. Liberal Manchester supported the Union.
Probably over simplified, but hey
98 Posted 21/07/2021 at 21:56:55
Would UNESCO only be happy with converting the interior and leaving the dock and surroundings untouched? That seems restrictive in the extreme. At the end of the day it was always going to be a football stadium replacing warehousing, albeit done to be far more in keeping with the heritage environs than many of the new developments, so it should have been made clear that approving the stadium would lead to this outcome. If that was made clear then it doesnt seem to have been well communicated, leading to our club very unfairly being portrayed as the villain of the piece. Has the club hit back by making clear all the effort it made to deliver a sympathetic development?
99 Posted 21/07/2021 at 22:00:00
Maybe Liverpool is being replaced by Wuhan!!!
World Destruction Site.
100 Posted 21/07/2021 at 22:03:26
As far as the ex mayor and his involvement with any part of the planning process, I don't know. I would guess that the Police are fine tooth combing all available evidence in the planning department; and it's reasonable to think there's sufficient evidence for the search. This may take months to complete.
My view is that the planning processitself would have to be scrupulously methodical, to pass through all the hurdles it had to go through.
Your point regarding the appeals process. I just don't know, my friend. I would think that a presentation might well be discussed by the Council, to see what objections have been raised and what the Council could, or would want to, do to appease the decision makers in UNESCO.
I would say, that as far as our Stadium is concerned, it has been given the go ahead and will not be stopped now. There is an awful lot of develoment along the whole North end of the city from The Liver Building onwards.
I think UNESCO withdrawing the "World Heritage " label from the city will be met with Oh well, lets get on with the development. There are Billions of pounds in investment that will be threatened if there is a delay.
101 Posted 21/07/2021 at 23:03:33
The jewel in Peels cut-price crown is intended to be Evertons new stadium, sadly of much the same quality, conceived as a great silver slug marooned on top of a vaguely warehousey brick box – a strained “contextual” nod to its surroundings.
They don't like us do they !!!
102 Posted 21/07/2021 at 23:08:57
103 Posted 21/07/2021 at 23:55:04
Thank you for the information. . As you say the developments will go ahead anyway. The Council and it's fault will get the full support of the government to press ahead developing the docklands. I remembers in the 70s while cycle touring going through acres of cleared derelect docklands in Liverpool. , having to wake up a guy worse for drink for directions to get out of it. . There has was real progress in a visit in 2012, though Goodison looked the worse for wear. The Docklands have probably provided the incentive for the largesse that Moshiri has spent on Everton learning about Football the hard way. It will be some City when all the Development pulls through and really prosperous with it. At the end of the day there is only one city called Liverpool with a great team called Everton.
104 Posted 22/07/2021 at 00:23:02
Thats may well be the case and few would deny that. But the Mercantile History if Liverpool. was far vast
rather than being than a second Bristol, which was a back water in comparison. Sea transportation, commodity trading, wool cloth export, Banking, canal system terminal made Liverpool. one if the worlds largest ports. I recently researched a friend of mines family tree. He was of the Pickford Removals family who started in the Canal Age and where operated in liverpool and where connected to the Todd Naylor family one of the most prominent Merchant Families in Liverpool. Neither family was involved in the Slave trade, but built vast businesses and traded extensively. I have known him over 40 years and found him to actively promote equality as second nature. Hugh Gaitskill's mother was a Todd Naylor. Gaitskill name was Hugh Todd Naylor Gaitskill.
105 Posted 22/07/2021 at 00:41:52
My point is that a huge amount of Liverpools wealth was based on the slave triangle. Goods to West Africa, slaves to the Americas and West Indies and then cotton, tobacco and sugar to Britain.
Now I was being ironic earlier. I wasn't advocating a sanitising of history...I was saying it wouldn't surprise me if the " cancel culture" hadn't attacked Unesco for its support for World Heritage status.
Statues are being felled, of anyone with a hint of connection to slavery. Unesco gave Heritage status to Liverpool on account of its magnificent Georgian buildings near the Anglican, for the magnificent sweep of William Brown Street and for the Victorian Dock complex. Much, maybe not all, of this was built from the profits of the. trade with the new world.
I was suggesting it would not have surprised me if Unesco hadn't been attacked by the cancel culture movement because of this. I wasn't suggesting it should be.
And I concede that many people in public life in Victorian Liverpool were vehemently anti slavery.
106 Posted 22/07/2021 at 00:47:49
107 Posted 22/07/2021 at 01:40:53
108 Posted 22/07/2021 at 01:50:33
The pub was an oasis in a desert of dereliction. During a break myself and a couple of the guys crossed the road to have a look around the Albert and Salthouse docks. The docks were full of mud and the Albert Dock, itself, was derelict with broken down doors and many broken windows. Various schemes had been mooted including complete demolition and building a skyscraper office block. The whole site was a complete eyesore.
Fast forward a decade to Michael Heseltines appointment as 'Minister for Liverpool' in the wake of the Thatcher government's panic following the Toxteth riots. Much as I may hate to admit it but he was the catalyst for the regeneration of the Albert Dock into the major tourist attraction it has become today.
If UNESCO had been on the scene, at that time, they would have fought this regeneration tooth and nail as they would have seen it as compromising the original integrity of the docks. They appear to prefer rotting Victorian buildings with no public access to regeneration.
In years to come I can see a rejuvenated north docks area, anchored by our stadium, becoming as big an attraction as the south docks are now.
History is my bag but you cannot live in a rotting museum. As far as I'm concerned UNESCO can do one.
109 Posted 22/07/2021 at 01:59:30
Great post mate. Earlier Barry Hesketh wondered how many UNESCO sites there are in the UK. There are 32. Some obvious like Stonehenge, others less so. One is The Industrial Landscape in Wales which is basically a long abandoned factory and the squalid housing surrounding it. Theres nothing aesthetically appealing about it. The site serves as a reminder of a time when poorly paid workers labored in monstrous conditions. Its not a joyful legacy, its an albatross around the neck of another area left to fester. You cant trap people in economic decline so a few historians can waffle about the hardships of old. Its time to rejuvenate Liverpool for the people of today instead of keeping at as a museum of its hard fought past.
110 Posted 22/07/2021 at 02:52:04
Im asking, because we were always going run foul of them if they oppose any regeneration but if they are saying we have crossed a line by obliterating original features, such as the dock itself, then they really should have made that clearer when planning permission was being sought.
I really object to the way the stadium is being singled out for attack at this point considering the effort that was made to be sympathetic to the setting.
Jack (101), that journo obviously has some axe to grind. He must understand that the design of the stadium was mainly driven by making it appropriate to its site, which was presumably seen as essential.
111 Posted 22/07/2021 at 03:08:14
The UNESCO statement was very broad talking about years of development. Only the UK press pinned it on Everton.
112 Posted 22/07/2021 at 04:09:23
I do hope they continue with the preservation of the tower and the outer wall though.
113 Posted 22/07/2021 at 04:16:52
And I'm all for that. Liverpool had a history in the 60's and 70' of tearing everything down and replacing it with ugly modern buildings. When I went to Newcastle in the late '70's they had preserved the façades of the old Victorian streets and built modern shopping facilities behind them.
Great foresight from the infamous T. Dan Smith, and I think our own Trevor Skempton might have had a hand in it?
114 Posted 22/07/2021 at 04:30:48
Of course, English history and culture go back about 50 centuries farther, but still...
We do need to get to work on developing a culture.
115 Posted 22/07/2021 at 04:54:32
Not only did Liverpool ships carry Confederate arms but we built their ships in Liverpool and Birkenhead when the UK was supposed to be neutral. The Confederate Navy HQ was effectively at 10 Rumford Place.
I can never get links to work on here but if you search for "Liverpool Confederate Navy" it brings up lots of interesting stuff.
116 Posted 22/07/2021 at 06:48:32
I too love history Bill @108. We should respect it, learn from it but move on from it too. The Liverpool I now go home to when I visit family is the same but a different one than I lived in during the 80s and later in the mid 90s. But for the better as it has progressed. With the redevelopment of the northern dock area, it can make another leap forward.
I find the Confederate - Union links fascinating. I suppose you have to put it in the context of time to a degree. Has any country ever been truly neutral in a conflict? Often they will make an official stance but there tends to always be a hidden agenda delivered by proxy.
To use an example from above' "liberal" Manchester supporting the Union. I don't know if that was the case but won't doubt they did. If so, that's the official stance. But then they thrived off the cotton from the south that was being shipped to "confederate supporting" Liverpool to fuel the surrounding mills that Manchester businesses thrived off! Typical Liberals; be outraged about most things, but do as I say, not what I do!
117 Posted 22/07/2021 at 07:23:27
The Confederacy expected British support because of England's dependency on King Cotton, but it didn't happen that way. The Union would have declared war on England if it supported the South, and England didn't need cotton as badly as it needed grain and other trade from the Union, and so (please note Danny #116) the Confederate cotton trade to England essentially stopped early in the war. The South thus had no chance of help from overseas. England and France had other issues to worry about.
However, Liverpool shipyards were notoriously pro-Confederacy, and they built three warships for the South, one of which (the Alabama) attacked and sank Union shipping in the Atlantic. The second never accomplished much, and the third was seized by the contrite British government before it was launched. The victorious Union sued Britain after the war and collected what was then a huge settlement. But the Liverpool-built warships never really had any impact on the war itself, and everybody was friends again afterwards.
That's what I learned in my Civil War History class in high school, circa 1973.
118 Posted 22/07/2021 at 07:37:36
If the Agra authorities built a modern shopping mall or a block of luxury apartments next to the Taj Mahal, there'd be an outcry. Quite rightly. However, it is slightly different for Liverpool.
This is a modern city and must be an organic entity, growing and changing. It is not a one-off historical site, but a reminder of the trading and industry of the 18th and 19th Century. The whole entity cannot and should not be locked in aspic.
I'm not sure that the development of Bramley-Moore stadium will add much aesthetically or architecturally to the Liverpool waterfront, but I'm sure that preserving it as a derelict piece of ground is not exactly an answer.
Losing the Unesco listing will not deter the vast majority of tourists who visit Liverpool. May I suggest that rebuilding the overhead railway and reopening the New Brighton Ferry service would be steps in the right direction, both of which could stop at our new stadium.
119 Posted 22/07/2021 at 08:06:35
A bit like there was Football before the Premier League.
120 Posted 22/07/2021 at 08:20:06
Always said that Eddie. I have close affiliation with the US both personally and professionally. I have many "colonials" (affectionate term) friends and colleagues. Yes there is much Chelsea like "you've got no history" type banter, but North America has a fascinating and rich history.
You're still a baby nation though Mike and don't forget, Us Brits invented everything, including America!!!
121 Posted 22/07/2021 at 10:01:56
The Confederate navy started from virtually scratch but became a very modern, powerful, force very quickly.
Liverpool must have been a hotbed of spies at that time a bit like Lisbon was in WW2.
Danny, history makes us what we are today but I agree we must learn from it and we should certainly move on.
I'm finding this thread far more interesting than the footy!!
122 Posted 22/07/2021 at 10:02:28
My comment regarding Santised History was general and I apologise if it appeared personnel to you. Being active in researching articles for Publication in a Historical Publication I am a bit sensitive about coming across research and publication that gloss over the reality. I find that I have to revise alot of what is put across as fact. I see the distruction of historical relics as you say as Cancel culture and a attempt to cover up discovery of the truth, which is the opposite of the parties involve intent. It inadvertly santises history. e. g I was in Bristol and looked at the Coulston Statue and was able to unlock Bristols Slavery past, which was not that accessible. If I went to Bristol now I may not get that Key of Entry. In the case of Liverpool I think it is better to openly live with, understand, intiating learning and discussion and expose any cover ups. As T S Elliot said 'To learn is to live'.
I see you have started a discussion on the American people Civil War. I have a friend who has researched tbe American Civil War for over 40 years and on a flight to New York I was talking to a Lawyer from Baltimore who was a similar nut. I put them in contact and they are in constant discussion for this pass 15 years. Good luck to anyone who is trying to sort out the American Civil War, I stay clear. The English Civil War is as bad.
On reading your post I thought you would acknowledge any attempts at balance.
By the way my Posts on ToffeeWeb are purely opinion and emotional regarding Everton. . A totally different medium. Though there are attempts at sanitation.
123 Posted 22/07/2021 at 10:36:15
If you are interested in Civil Wars have you checked out any of the works of Paul Preston other Spanish ?
Fascinating stuff..he is a true authority. Also an ex St Eddie's lad and a blue nose to boot.
124 Posted 22/07/2021 at 11:55:44
Perhaps the World Heritage agenda runs to flora (No not margarine) there may be some of the rarest weeds in the world around BMD and one of the workmen found an empty baked bean can produced by Heinz 57 in the 60's very rare. Also I'm led to believe several crates of empty Higgies Brown Ale bottles were pulled out of the water along with skeletons of cats tied to a heavy weight alongside an old pigeon racing clock.
The main issue was the view of the sewage facility was going to be blocked by the stadium some very rare tomato plants grow in there from seeds shat by tomato lovers all over Liverpool.
A devastating loss to the world.
125 Posted 22/07/2021 at 13:41:27
Liverpool acknowledges that a large part of its wealth is built on slavery. The museum of slavery is part of the south docks development and is currently expanding. A great example of acknowledging the past in order to learn the lessons for the future.
Mike #117 the Alabama was built in secret at Cammel Lairds shipyard in Birkenhead and went on to sink 65 union ships. The northern blockade ofSouthern ports meanwhile caused a ‘cotton famine in the UK, resulting in cotton mill closures and unemployment between 1862-63. Perhaps your history lesson reflected a need to maintain the idea of ‘ a special relationship with the UK. A bit similar to some UK versions of the British Empire as solely a force for good. History is written by the winners and all that.
Interestingly Alabama St in Wallasey Birkenhead was/is being reviewed for renaming because of its connection with the CSS Alabama. Im originally Birkenhead born but not sure where the debate has landed - does anyone know?
A storm also broke over the Guardian newspapers past links with to slavery. Apparently the Manchester Guardian criticised Lincoln and supported the south! Liberals eh?
126 Posted 22/07/2021 at 14:53:03
Kev #125, I didn't know that about the cotton shortage and the closings -- obviously that wouldn't be part of a US history course -- but I do know that our "special relationship" almost devolved to open combat between the Union and the British early in the war. The Union stopped a British ship carrying Confederate envoys to England and arrested the envoys, and the British were so outraged they contemplated military action from Canada. Who knows, if you'd won we might all be Canadian today.
127 Posted 22/07/2021 at 14:59:39
128 Posted 22/07/2021 at 15:14:36
The Republicans used to be Democrats?
The Democrats used to be Republicans?
Washington and Lincoln owned slaves?
New York was originally called New Amsterdam?
129 Posted 22/07/2021 at 15:26:09
130 Posted 22/07/2021 at 15:40:27
131 Posted 22/07/2021 at 15:44:56
Sympathetically repurposed to meet modern demand? Yes! UNESCO objection? No!
Has Saltaire preserved its gritty, industrial fabric mill roots? Not now it's a trendy shopping and dining experience it hasn't.
Sympathetically repurposed to meet modern demand? Yes! UNESCO objection? No!
Have the Welsh castles maintained Richard the First's oppression of the Welsh people? Not now they are tourist-friendly cash magnets they haven't.
Sympathetically repurposed to meet modern demand? Yes! UNESCO objection? No!
Will BMD continue as a derelict and permanent record of our merchant shipping's decline? Not now it's got ambitions to house a football team and regenerate a long-neglected area it won't.
Sympathetically repurposed to meet modern demand? Yes! UNESCO objection? Err, Yes!
Wonder what the difference is?
132 Posted 22/07/2021 at 16:15:02
What first forced Unesco to act, putting the city on its danger list in 2012, was the granting of outline planning permission for the Peel group's Liverpool Waters plan. The developer told me their vision was inspired by Shanghai, “the way the skyscrapers of Pudong stand across the water from the historic Bund”, but it was a pound-shop Pudong at best. The ambition has since been dialled down a few notches, leaving a collection of drab, faceless slabs, set to march for 2km along the waterfront. The jewel in Peel's cut-price crown is intended to be Everton's new stadium, sadly of much the same quality, conceived as a great silver slug marooned on top of a vaguely warehousey brick box – a strained “contextual” nod to its surroundings./
133 Posted 22/07/2021 at 16:39:08
134 Posted 22/07/2021 at 17:18:11
135 Posted 22/07/2021 at 17:19:08
136 Posted 22/07/2021 at 17:19:19
137 Posted 22/07/2021 at 17:20:43
138 Posted 22/07/2021 at 18:42:16
Amen to that.
139 Posted 22/07/2021 at 18:56:36
Stan, I wouldn't doubt it one little bit. He's probably one of those north London reds who've never been further north than the Watford Gap.
140 Posted 22/07/2021 at 19:50:23
141 Posted 22/07/2021 at 20:02:46
Well we'll put that one to bed if I was a bigot I'd be at Church on a Sunday and in the Orange Lodge. The only humans I hate are from the hole across the park, that I admit.
As you mentioned Humour, we are a long time dead. For the last 2 years, I have been caring for my Mrs 24/7 as she is suffering from a terminal illness, so I like a little bit of humour. You have to laugh at something or you might as well top yourself.
You mentioned Chinese Culture and the biggest pandemic the world has ever seen started in Wuhan, funnily enough in China. There are two theories that the World Health Organisation put forward but were not allowed access to the Laboratories to inspect them for quite some time. So if it started in the lab as a culture in a petri dish, we will never know.
The other theory was the market at Wuhan selling everything that walks, flies or swims and a bat being responsible for the coronavirus kicking off.
Right, so we are agreed the whole damned thing started in Wuhan, China.
If it was Cultured in the lab in Wuhan, it becomes a Chinese Culture, right? Therefore, even if your sense of humour is sensitive to the 'facts', then there is nothing I can do about it.
Anything else that touches a raw nerve so I won't mention it in future, being the considerate bigot that I am.
Also, if these Heritage clowns had not met in China, we wouldn't need to be explaining each others viewpoint, would we?
142 Posted 22/07/2021 at 20:59:01
This was always on the cards and was done in a cowardly manner by Unesco, and this will do Liverpool a favour and enable the regeneration plans now and in the future to prosper.
Life's full of ups and downs and this has been a tough week but Everton will be stronger out of this week.
143 Posted 22/07/2021 at 21:26:38
144 Posted 23/07/2021 at 05:37:10
Decision made in China says it all.
Have any of these goons taken the time to visit the city and see for themselves?
I think not.
They can all fuck off.
145 Posted 23/07/2021 at 07:49:58
The problem with some of the journalists writing on this subject is they have little connection with the city and are writing from afar. Simon Jenkins was heavily involved with the National Trust and comes from a standpoint of heritage without any practical benefit. Unesco made a decision from thousands of miles away having not even visited the city and contributed nothing to maintaining the assets.
We all know what a shit heap the area is and it was only a matter of time before Bramley-Moore Dock descended into so much disrepair that the City would have been stripped of the status anyway.
I wonder what Unesco said about the McDonalds and KFC that are literally a few yards away from the Pyramids in Cairo?
146 Posted 23/07/2021 at 20:41:27
147 Posted 23/07/2021 at 22:27:29
You're wrong stating ". . . . . the very last act of the American civil war took place in Liverpool when the CSS Shenandoah surrendered. . "
Our Civil War ended when Lee surrendered to Grant in April. There was a battle or two fought in the next couple months, as news traveled slow back then. What happened 6 months later at Liverpool wasn't a surrender, since the rebels weren't at war with England.
It was a rebel privateer whose captain was worried (with good reason) about being arrested and hung for piracy if he sailed back to the States.
148 Posted 23/07/2021 at 23:53:51
I will check Prestons works out. I did recommend a book to the Lawyer from Baltimore and would similarly recommend it to you ' The Great Siege of Malta 1565 - Ernie Bradford.
149 Posted 24/07/2021 at 00:05:04
My friends Father fought in the Spainish Civil War.
150 Posted 24/07/2021 at 01:01:44
Moving on, the city of Liverpool has had engravings on its significant buildings for a hundred years and more acknowledging the history of it and the Slave Trade. These days a basically sentient being should be aware of it, and be willing to fashion a better future.
And, getting back to the titular subject of this piece, wouldn't it have been a great thing if some liberal wazzock in the late nineteenth century had decided to design and deliver a preposterously vulgar enormous statue to a dilapidated shameful island with an appalling history of humanitarian welfare in a bid to recognise hope, ambition, nourishment and good life itself in the country that shabby island was part of?
Yeah it would've been, and The Statue Of Liberty shows it can be done.
151 Posted 24/07/2021 at 06:14:37
Along with several others seemingly.
152 Posted 24/07/2021 at 06:21:11
153 Posted 24/07/2021 at 10:30:04
It's almost as if the UNESCO delegates first question was "How much do I get if I list your location?"
Given the main pastime of the UN is to pass resolutions attacking Israel, while its troops in disaster areas are best known for their contribution to the child prostitution industry (UNICEF it pretty good at this too), and that China dominates most of the UN activities, I doubt that anyone with any sense would take anything emerging from anything to do with the UN seriously.
154 Posted 24/07/2021 at 11:12:30
155 Posted 24/07/2021 at 15:51:12
Fair to say blaming Everton is shameful from Unesco, other hotels and buildings have been built around the three graces, all done with no thought of style.
Meanwhile, Everton bent over backwards, speaking to the heritage people, ensuring they would carry out work on the dock wall, maintain the hydraulic tower, and blend the ground in with brickwork at the bottom half of the stadium, also draining the dock and filling with sand, instead of cement.
Fair to say, Everton was the only ones that negotiated and tried to carry out everything, that would be in agreement with the heritage people.
Now watch Peel Holdings reep the rewards, with the land they own and expect hotels shops and all sorts to be built on the derelict land.
156 Posted 24/07/2021 at 16:01:56
157 Posted 24/07/2021 at 17:37:54
Peel will clean up.
158 Posted 24/07/2021 at 17:44:22
I cant imagine many people being too bothered by it.
159 Posted 24/07/2021 at 18:45:18
160 Posted 24/07/2021 at 19:05:30
That sounds like a conspiracy theory. So eminently possible!
161 Posted 24/07/2021 at 19:14:13
Vasya Pupkin is told he's won a Hero of Soviet Labour award and it will be presented in front of the whole factory workforce.
He goes up on the platform and asks the factory chairman "How much money do I get?"
The FC says, "Nothing just the medal"
VP replies "What, you mean I get no money, just the shame of getting a government award?"
I suspect that getting anything from the UN as an award, like a non-science Nobel Prize, is just indication of something very dubious going on.
162 Posted 24/07/2021 at 19:43:59
163 Posted 24/07/2021 at 20:42:03
"You can stick your Unesco up your arse, you can stick..."
Well, you know how it goes.
164 Posted 24/07/2021 at 20:44:26
165 Posted 24/07/2021 at 21:15:31
Pissing off UNESCO
166 Posted 24/07/2021 at 21:43:33
UNESCO, grow a pair
168 Posted 25/07/2021 at 01:20:43
You used to be able to walk, stagger or climb up Ayres Rock (Uluru) for nothing. But it was 'damaging' it... but you can still be 'accompanied by a 'guide' for a (substantial) fee.
There was a cartoon years ago in an Australian paper... it could have been about anywhere... yeah right.
2 guys round a fire and in the far, far, distance, on the horizon there's an oil derrick spewing oil – a gusher. 1st guy says to the other "I see they just found another sacred site then."
169 Posted 25/07/2021 at 01:41:53
170 Posted 25/07/2021 at 04:47:09
Brian #155, there's no way they would fill the dock in with 'cement' (I assume you mean concrete) it would cost too much and take too long but the sand they will use will be free, they just have to transport it.
171 Posted 25/07/2021 at 08:31:21
Sounds like a Universal Cure (Available in Cream or Suppository Form) for Anal Related Ailments !
172 Posted 25/07/2021 at 19:17:55
173 Posted 25/07/2021 at 19:19:44
174 Posted 25/07/2021 at 19:44:52
175 Posted 25/07/2021 at 20:09:26
176 Posted 25/07/2021 at 20:12:35
Yeah, probably sand, got a bit carried away with my rant. Unesco got the better of me, the cheeky gets.
177 Posted 25/07/2021 at 20:15:31
178 Posted 25/07/2021 at 20:22:43
they are N – not negotiable;
they are E – anti-Everton;
they are S – stuck in the past,
they are C – cheeky bastards,
oh oh oh
Unesco, me arse
Unesco, me arse.
179 Posted 25/07/2021 at 21:30:37
180 Posted 25/07/2021 at 21:50:02
181 Posted 25/07/2021 at 22:51:41
182 Posted 26/07/2021 at 01:43:59
183 Posted 26/07/2021 at 11:26:21
184 Posted 26/07/2021 at 18:36:26
185 Posted 26/07/2021 at 20:30:59
There has been a lot of talk about heritage this week, but we have been clear throughout our planning that respecting and enhancing heritage has always been one of our key principles. Our commitment to bringing the docks heritage features to life has not changed and we will be investing more than £55m to preserve, restore and celebrate the heritage assets at Bramley-Moore Dock. Indeed, this process has started already by repairing the listed dock wall and, in the coming days, well begin stabilising the hydraulic tower. Once construction is complete we will be opening the inaccessible site up to the public for the first time in decades – allowing people to appreciate its heritage.
Our commitment to bringing the docks heritage features to life has not changed and we will be investing more than £55m to preserve, restore and celebrate the heritage assets at Bramley-Moore Dock. Indeed, this process has started already by repairing the listed dock wall and, in the coming days, well begin stabilising the hydraulic tower.
Once construction is complete we will be opening the inaccessible site up to the public for the first time in decades – allowing people to appreciate its heritage.
186 Posted 26/07/2021 at 20:40:38
As for any potential peeping-toms forget it, the site is going to be closed to the public for a few weeks.
187 Posted 26/07/2021 at 21:19:40
188 Posted 26/07/2021 at 21:53:11
I really hope that you get to be there but if not when I make it for the first time I'll certainly take a moment and think of you...
“Weve got some difficult days ahead but it really doesnt matter with me now, because Ive been to the mountaintop … Ive seen the Promised Land. I may not get there with you. But I want you to know tonight, that we, as a people, will get to the Promised Land”
189 Posted 28/07/2021 at 08:50:13
Meanwhile back in the City of liverpool, I can honestly say, I can still see the beauty of the liver buildings, the three graces, the two cathedrals, the Albert docks,Mathew Street, the pubs and feel the warmth of the people of Liverpool, nothing has changed, apart from a title.
In ten years time, long after our new ground has been built, that area and beyond, will be turned from a decayed dock, to attractions that will bring people to that particular area, and link up with the rest of the landmark waterfront.
Every so often something has happened that has brought the people of Liverpool together, Blue and Red, a togetherness, most Reds fans I know are on the side of progress, they may not like Everton having a new ground on the water front, but at the same time they have slated UNESCO, for the way they and the press have headlined it being down to Everton football club, that the City of Liverpool, have lost their heritage status.
We may have lost the Heritage status, but once that area has been regenerated, it is going to be one hell of a sight to behold.
As others have said, Unesco my arse, do one.
190 Posted 28/07/2021 at 08:57:35
191 Posted 28/07/2021 at 09:26:02
192 Posted 28/07/2021 at 09:46:04
You're not going anywhere until you've sat in BMD and watched Everton win the league again to take us to double figure titles!!
193 Posted 28/07/2021 at 12:43:29
194 Posted 28/07/2021 at 13:27:38
I live in-between Penny Lane and Mendips, John Lennon's home where he lived as a child, with Strawberry Fields in-between as well, and the crowds have been flocking to all three destinations, be it by the Magical Mystery Tour Bus, the city tourist buses, mini buses or Hackney cabs that do private tours.
I know that these sites are not as a result of Liverpool being granted World Heritage Site listing, but don't all Beatles tours start off at the Albert Dock, part of our famous waterfront?
Tourism in Liverpool is alive and kicking, and will be for many years to come, with or without Unesco and their ridiculous World Heritage Site listing!!! So Unesco, shove that piece of paper right up your jacksie!!
195 Posted 28/07/2021 at 14:10:14
I often find these institutions very politicised and self-licking. Like FIFA and the Olympic Committee they want you to wine & dine them, make you feel subservient and then grateful for them giving you a rubber stamp or a hand out that you're probably already paying for anyway.
Apologies, these organisations really bring out the cynic in me!!
196 Posted 28/07/2021 at 14:32:17
197 Posted 28/07/2021 at 14:36:01
If Unesco had been around in 1981 we'd never have seen the Albert Dock, sorry, the Royal Albert Dock restored. They'd have used the same argument as they're using now, surely?
Has anybody been to Paris? I've been a couple of times, wonderful place, magnificent architecture etc., eye watering bar prices, but, I didn't go because of Unesco. I went because I wanted to see Paris and breathe in its culture, its atmosphere... I have just had to check. Paris has, apparently, five Unesco sites. But I didn't know until Wiki told me 5 minutes ago.
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