Everton take ownership of Bramley-Moore Dock

Soft sod that I am, I found it emotional, thinking of the 100 years or so my grandad, dad, I, son and daughters, grandsons and many other family members and friends have been attending Goodison.

I’ve promised one grandson my ticket for the 1st match there, I look forward to my first visit shortly after.
A little piece of history.

I can’t wait to start my daily visit to the webcam - well done to all who are making this happen.

My Dad told me that he biked it down from Haydock to watch Dixie Dean and co, win when he got his 60th goal; and stars for Everton before him. And there's Evertonians who have been going the match since the late forties, Wow!!
And Useless&co, can weep and moan of the loss of their heritage, while we'll be seeing it rise' to bring the North End of our City, to life!

I'll be taking regular walks along the canal and get off at the great Tobacco Warehouse and see the progress of the building of our new home.

Well done blues.

Anyway, good to see that Kenwright has finally delivered on the stadium. I for one never doubted him for a minute.

Once Unsworth gets the U23’s sorted in his new role, we’ll also have a team half full of scousers to kick off in it.

Congratulations all round.

I walked from Sandhills station (a 15 min stroll) and then past BMD and on to James Street station (about another 32 mins). I too, noticed a lot of coming and going of vans and one lorry with 20, or so, portable bogs on it!

My first game was in 1958 and my ambition was to, at least, see the first game at BMD. All the delays have meant I've scaled that back to seeing work start and then the actual construction to begin. The first box is now ticked; now I just hope Moshiri doesn't fall under a bus!

I moved to the states in '82 and I have only been back once when Roberto was manager and it wasn't the same. For me, the old Goodison Park went a long time ago. I can't wait for the new stadium.

I'm not in the Tony Marsh camp of “it will never happen”; but I am putting the champagne on ice. I'll crack it open when it gets the final safety inspection approval. Until then, Goodidon it is.

Colin @ 1, Don't be getting any fancy ideas about getting Finch Farm, doing the same and setting up a webcam for your favourite player, Iwobi-Cam! :-)

Would that be the fabled one-eyed, red-skinned monster to the north of Albert Dock?

I have not heard that term ‘Mersey Goldfish' in 47 years – that is the exact amount of years I have lived here in Sydney, Australia. It sure made me smile.

My aim now is to live long enough to come home and see a game at our new ground. Considering it could be 2025 before they play there, I will be 73, so fingers crossed.

Derek, my Dad's family are natives of Garston, but the thought of a Garston Trout has put me off my breakfast!

International interest rates are at their lowest in history and Usmonov is co owner of Metalloinvest one of the largest steel/iron/concrete conglomerates in the world. The stadium will need steel and concrete.

Everton turned down the council's offer of access to government funded loans, at very low interest rates, saying they would pursue finance on the international money markets.

Moshiri needs this stadium to happen to realise his investment. The only danger I see is Usmonov and Moshiri falling out, or one of them falling under a bus.

They’ve to fill in a dock! Not dig foundations. There hasn’t been a doubt for months that it’s going ahead, I don’t get the negativity.

Although you have just reminded me of one of my earliest memories. My Grandad (Dad's side) offered to take me for a haircut. My mother agreed and gave him the money. He took me to his mate's house "under the bridge" and I had my hair cut in the kitchen. No exaggeration, true story etc; I had a colander placed on my head and he used the kitchen scissors to trim me.

I had no issues and was ignorant to the new look I was sporting as we went to the pub that used to sit at the top of the village as you entered Garston from Speke. I got a few bottles of coke and some crisps to sit outside with, so I was happy.

Mum was mortified and angry when we eventually got home.

I got taken for a haircut again the next day.

We went to the Cavalier on my 18th. In typical style, it was the first time my dad allowed me to buy him a drink rather than vice versa!!

This is a time to be optimistic, not pessimistic. Headquarters in the blue illuminated Royal Liver Building that looks towards our iconic stadium on the banks of the Mersey.

What is there not to like about that?

The City's all ours.

There is always a chance that something might go wrong, even the most optimistic supporter would recognise that in these challenging times, but to keep trotting out the same tired "what if?" questions shows how brow-beaten some of the fanbase has become.

Moshiri and company might be useless when it comes to football knowledge, but to spend as much time, effort and money to get to this stage of the stadium project has been no mean feat. Of course, they might see this flagship project as a chance to ultimately enhance their individual personal wealth one way or another, but without Moshiri, we'd be looking forward to spending the rest of our time at Goodison with no hope of a replacement being built.

I think that a new syndrome should be put into the medical journals, Everton syndrome – symptoms include: The art of seeing the hidden pitfalls, when there is little evidence on view to support it. Showing a total mistrust of anyone at the club in a senior position and an inclination to be the first to say "I knew it would go wrong" about anything connected with the club.

Only kidding (just), I have no doubt the stadium will built and will be a success. I just worry that will we have a squad that can match that when the time comes?

We've had a few problems with managers, transfers and building a team, but people absolutely cannot fault the commitment of the owner and the board. All we need in the near future is to build a trophy-winning team to complete the dream.

Well done, Everton.

Interest rates are low for those who qualify for them. Profitable businesses with a sustainable income/expenditure. Not like the way the club has been run the last few years with record losses and also projected losses for the current year.

Regarding Usmanov ownership of concrete and steel companies that you mentioned, most of the concrete used in the project has to come locally, it's not feasible to transport it from overseas or even from far distances within the country. Steel prices have risen sharply in the last few months, as has shipping costs and many other expenses, which means that it's actually the worst time to build from a cost perspective.

Then some people are saying things about the new stadium like ' "I don't care who pays for it", or "I don't care how much it costs" – I'll remind you that some people also said similar things when big fees got wasted signing players like Tosun, Walcott, Iwobi etc... Eventually, the financial mismanagement will catch up, disaster will strike and the fans and club will suffer the consequences.

As anyone given a thought to how emotionally gut-wrenching our last game at the Old Lady will be? I expect I'll be a gibbering wreck, but I think this needs to happen for the future hopes and dreams we all have for our club.

On a different note, has anyone any experience or knowledge about projects of this size? How feasible is it for it to be ready by 2024?

It is our intention that we’ll be formally breaking ground on the eastern quayside in the early part of August.

Look out for the spade in the coming weeks!!

You make some good points. But as far as financing, the mayor already offered very favorable terms which the club rejected. If necessary, I imagine LCC would reopen such an avenue as it’s in the city’s interests economically to get this built.

Steel prices rose in the first half of this year mainly because of capacity restrictions imposed because of Covid. The rise also has to be seen from the context of an historically low base.

Most analysts predicts prices will fall in the 3rd and 4th quarters of 2021 as China, and others, bring mothballed capacity back into production.

IHS Markit; global market analysts;

When should you make a steel purchase?

'We retain “wait” buying advice for steel, or at least be sure your contract has an automatic price adjustment. Prices will start to ease by late in the second quarter and fall over the second half of the year. Declines were delayed by bad weather—but only delayed, not prevented. The exception remains sheet in North America, which is on allocation and should remain so through May, perhaps June. Ensuring availability is more of a concern than price. Furnace restarts and sharply increasing imports are starting to alleviate the supply crunch but the first step is to replenish inventory'.

'Steel markets are the worst for buyers in at least a decade, and for US sheet the worst ever. However, markets should turn soon as increased production and imports alleviate supply shortages. There is no shortage of capacity; the problems were caused by capacity remaining idle too long after demand started to recover from COVID-19 lockdowns'.

The relevance is, if you invest heavily and play the long game, you will turn a profit. Granted, Roman Abramovich was around 40 when he bought Chelsea and Moshiri and Usmanov are both over 65, but the point remains, invest wisely and wait long enough and you will make money. This is exactly what the Arabians are doing with Man City, whereby the club fits in as part of the Royal Family assets, along with all the land they are buying in and around the ground and sports complex. They too will be turning a profit if they wish to sell.

Letters from erudites from architectural wonders such as Birmingham (shithole), Cardiff (dump) and Bath (snobby bastards) are all chipping in telling us what is best for the city in their opinion. I would just like to say to them - go fuck yourselves!!!

I don’t think it’s been the Manchester Guardian for quite a long time.

And they broke national security rules many years ago in my opinion so I have little respect for their opinion.

Narrators of this opinion would rather let rotting dockland rot further in the name of preservation? Preservation of what? No thanks, we'll turn it into something special and give the historical setting and backdrop a future to be proud of in the name of progress.

For me, the real baddies of the loss of the UNESCO world heritage are Peel. Peel's plans are those that UNESCO are really opposed to and those plans go right up to and include conservation areas. However, not much of their plans have even started and the shanghai tower has already been downgraded, so why have UNESCO not issued a warning, a red line if you please, and then waited to see how Liverpool react, rather than simple withdrawal which means the City now has no obligations towards conversation and can allow developers to encroach onto the real areas of conservation right in the city centre and not as far out as Bramley Moore Dock?

Peel holdings have been playing the long game in Liverpool. They buy up land and leave it derelict. So much of the criticism that areas of conservation are derelict and unused is due to their ownership. The city should have been taking ownership themselves and trying to then sell them off to developers with conservation more at the forefront of their minds, if they really wanted to keep the UNESCO badge. Peel's plan has always been to derelict parts, to allow them to keep buying it all up and then to develop something like Liverpool Waters and maximise profits. But it's Everton's plans and not Peel's that are attracting the negative publicity.

On this matter though, I agree with their decision to redevelop the north bank to breathe life back into devastated (drugs, unemployment) communities. Yes, it’s a Faustian deal with Peel but what are the alternatives?

Will UNESCO, Heritage England, The Red Brick Society, Save the Mersey Tadpole Liberation Army etc…find the monies to redevelop this abandoned part of Liverpool? Probably not

As far as I can see the loss of WHS has been a long time coming, long before Everton were involved, and has finally arrived. The developments that have already taken place over a number of years are the ones that have been criticised the most in the articles. UNESCO, effectively warned the City several years ago as I understand it, when they put it on the at risk list. (They’ve just done the same to Stonehenge)

Peel are the real winners in this, although it will be interesting to see how the new Council officers and the Commissioners will play it.

I’m not convinced that this is even about the Stadium, which will go ahead regardless.

I’m not sure that the opinion is that of the Guardian, and I’ve not seen an Editorial on the subject as yet, although I’ve not been looking for one, nor have I seen any rebuttal articles, from anybody so far. I’m sure they would be happy to print one.

I've complained about Sunday's streaming debacle. I've had a response and the complaint has been passed to the relevant people. The reply will be interesting as Everton TV has always been dreadful.

One ongoing example is the weekly pre match press conferences where the journos' questions have always been virtually inaudible.

My second option was to go in The Titanic for a beer and sarnie but they were queuing for the car park. Some other time.

I did notice a terrible smell of burning rubber etc but this is normal for the dock road.

Liverpool have lost their heritage status due to new buildings in the city and Everton's new stadium at Bramley Moore Dock. And there are few places where what I have put in bold has also been put in bold. So trying to heap the whole loss on EFC, ignoring the work already done.

Add to this today they are saying that building a cheap tunnel under Stonehenge to return it to something like the peacelike idyll of the days of Druids is ruining the heritage and their status could go. What, far better to have a road running past it with the noise of truck and the whiff of diesel fumes for the real heritage.

I hope it does lose its status as that will show up for sure the stupidity of UNESCO. Perhaps the best thing to do is dismantle GP, brick by brick, number them all and then put the whole thing back up again at BMD.

Fair one though. I would imagine in years to come, we will see some form of flood barrier on the Mersey estuary like we saw implemented on the Thames decades ago.

Crowd congestion? I wouldn't say getting out of and away from Goodison amongst those narrow terraced streets and the traffic on Queens Drive has ever been without congestion.

Events at Wembley have to have congestion control in place. It's inevitable when you have thousands of people attending an event in one location.

A tunnel has been mooted for donkey's years. If you drive down there in the Summer to get to anywhere in the West Country (and you have to if you're travelling to/from anywhere vaguely East of Stonehenge), it's a nightmare. Allow up to an hour or two to do a few miles on a two lane road while people slow down to gawk at the stones 1/4 of a mile away across a field.

Keep the road and build a tunnel to alleviate traffic and pollution. It makes so much sense. And as Phil says relatively inexpensive compared say to HS2 which is trashing swathes of English countryside and heritage.

There may be a few buried arrowheads or pots and shit which might get disturbed but anything found would be preserved for posterity. If Unesco want to kick off then they should propose solutions to these things rather than just throwing their toys out of the pram over rotting Liverpool docks and the such like.

I asked Dan Meis that very question at a shareholders' meeting a couple of years ago. He said global warming and the possibility of rising sea levels have been factored into the design.

I don't see transport as being any more of an issue than it is at Goodison, probably less so. The emphasis will be on public transport shuttles to Sandhills station and the city centre. Travelling inio the game by car will be discouraged and is very yesterday, anyway.

Personally, I haven't been to Goodison in my own car for about 12 years. I use the train and the football bus. It's just as quick.

Just imagine crossing the Mersey on a sunny day (you see I am an optimist) to go to the Match and see The new Stadium in all it's splendour. Magnifico! Oh, I know he's gone, but you know what I mean! Nothing much else would come close to Blue Heaven, especially a win against Liverpool too.

As Derek and others have noted, the ferry crossing alone will be worth it. And of the course the sun will be shining, how can it not be?

Allen; I did a trial run, yesterday (yes I know!). From Sandhills to BMD is an easy 15 minute stroll. (it has to be at my age). BMD to James Street station was 32 mins. I know most games are in the winter and yesterday was a lovely summer's day but the transport plan includes shuttle buses.

Neil; I get the train doesn't work for everyone but I think many will do the same as you, especially if there's a Merseyrail station, with a free car park, en route.

Can you imagine a ferry across the Mersey, full of Evertonians.

But the new location does lend itself for different options. And, whilst many have travelled across from the Wirral to Goodison over the years, it does now present a viable parking alternative for those travelling by car from the south.

I still like the idea of a monorail as an extension of the Merseyrail network. Run it from Brunswick to Sandhills, with stops at the Albert Dock, Pier Head and Bramley Moore Dock / Everton Stadium in between.

It would provide alternatives for people who get the train and allow those who want to socialise in town to "hop on / hop off" en-route. Selfishly, I can take a stroll from Lime Street and take in a refreshments to rehydrate before jumping on at the Pier Head!!

And if we're talking heritage; a modern tribute to the Docker's Umbrella.

I said years ago they should have stuck something similar in between the new Liverpool South Parkway Station and Liverpool Airport rather than have everyone get on buses. It would make Liverpool Airport better connected and look more the part.

Merseyrail have a long term plan for a station just north of the Titanic Hotel which would be virtually opposite BMD. A mono rail or tramway system would be great but the capital cost would be prohibitive for something which would only be used, at most, around 25 times a year.

I hope the plan is for Everton FC, and the whole of the northern docks to grow together, because I don’t think it can be underestimated how big this regeneration scheme is going to become?

If that’s the worst scenario then it’s fine by me.

If they can build a few nice pubs (and maybe a lap dancing bar) between the two then even better!

With the appropriate stops, it would allow visitors to hop along the attractions on the waterfront (Echo Arena, Albert Dock, Pier Head). And if we consider long-term that Everton's stadium is hopefully going to create much more regeneration, whatever ends up being beyond that.

I doubt it will be considered, let alone happen, but it's just a thought. The prospect of passing along with full visibility of Liverpool's famous waterfront en-route to our stadium at night would be some sight. Much more appealing than on the Merseyrail underground section!!

On a larger scale (inevitably), London installed the Docklands Light Railway (DLR) when they renovated Canary Wharf and the docks out to London City Airport and the ExCel exhibition centre. It is now an integral part of the Transport for London network.

They are also well aware that falling out of the top division is the only thing that might slightly derail their plans, hence the appointment of our new manager, who they obviously consider a safe pair of hands to keep Everton in the top flight. Lets hope their judgement is right on this. I also think they knew the new manager would accept any terms to get back into management in the Premier League, so money will be tight till the stadium is up and running.

The ferry makes loads of sense really, so I’m sure someone somewhere is already looking to implement this in the future, as things begin to take shape.

It's reasonable to think that they will invest massive amounts into what is likely to be one of the biggest developments in the country; and that includes investing massive amounts on the football side as well.

The big thing right now on the football side, is to have patience. It seems that we are unable to spend big on players, until this bloody FFP is cleared.
If we can't spend much now, then it's going to be hard to break into the regular top six position. (don't we depend on our business side to allow us to increase our spending, as well?(Hopefully someone can explain how that works?)

It looks like we will have to build the squad up slowly, with better players coming in once the contracts of the big wage players have ended.

Tony Shelby, I think there'll be a good few pubs, restaurants opening up as the development gathers pace, businesses (specially boozers!) will want to get their places along the dock road. I don't believe it... we'll have to start getting season tickets for the Bramley Moore alehouse as well!

Bill, I think the planning application had a layout for the position of buses and taxi ranks. The Dock Road itself will mostly be closed to traffic on matchdays with exceptions for essential access and the disabled. Not sure how near the shuttle buses will be to the stadium.

Next time you walk from Bramley-Moore to town Bill W, do you mind going to Moorefields station, first please mate, because I’m sure this will take at least 5 minutes off the walk, (I might be wrong) and you seem to be even more accurate than google maps!

I think it brought a tear to the eye, but I'll claim hay-fever!!

I thought Moshiri and Corestate Capital bought the Liver Buildings for £40m in 2016, making them joint owners?

Well, Scottie, as you point out Tony, is a mere skeleton to what it used to be and many a challenge has gone out over the years to see if a pub crawl could be done without getting totally pissed, before getting anywhere near half-way. I'm sure that if there's any land available along Scottie and Stanley, maybe even Vauxhall Road, a few more hostelries will open up.

Brian, that's a good idea, but let's have it on each anniversary of the first game at our new home... non-toxic dye, of course.

I think it was Colin Glassar who posted about how massive this development could turn out to be. Not only those streets that our former Mayor mentioned. New housing is already here and, for our end of the City, very expensive. It will grow and so will more businesses.

Our football stadium will also host events, so that in itself will boost the area and the City. It is pathetic that Unesco have acted like spoilt children and the articles in The Guardian are shameful. Stuff them, it will work to the Club's and City's advantage.

I agree Corestate and Moshiri jointly bought the Liver Building although the reported price was £48M. I think there are now tours available which I would like to do one day; I've only ever walked through the ground floor and was asked to leave!

As others have suggested, Moshiri and and Usmanov may well invest in other projects on the North Docks apart from Bramley-Moore Dock. It was always my opinion they would buy the Bramley-Moore Dock site even if the stadium plans were refused. Just a hunch.

Can you imagine being the owners of the Bramley-Moore pub? It must be like winning the lottery, only truckers and a few locals ever go in there… but now Bingo! Our ship's come in.

My mate, a red, went on the Liver tour last week when he went to Liverpool for a couple of days, he was quite impressed, less so when I pointed out that it was 'ours'! Typical Red, didn't even know!

My mate tried to give me some shit for our new away kit. I told him I had fantasised about having an updated Black Watch since I first read the history of Everton as a nipper, and so understanding the history he said fair enough. He did not believe me when I told him the colour of Everton's kit in 1891 when we won the league for the first time at Anfield.

Link

Brian # 34, I'm thinking that the dock infill area is going to be the pitch area, so no need for spades in there.

But the stadium part will be the existing ground around the dock basin itself, so will definitely need a few spades.

I was to busy mopping up the smug that oozed out of every orifice to lay it on any thicker.
Anyway, you don’t use more ammo than necessary.
😁

“The architects’ plans for the new stadium show a handsome, modern but aesthetically satisfactory building. It is also one that is going to regenerate a still run-down area of the city and Everton FC have promised to give £55 million for the preservation and conservation of historic buildings near the new stadium.”

“… most tourists who go to the city do so because of the Beatles or one of the great football teams there, not because a group of people from far away countries, who for the most part have not been to the city, had specially designated it.”

I was in two minds about Moorfields or James Street but Moorfields is further uphill and involves a long walk once inside!

On a dock road closed to other traffic a shuttlebus would take well less than 10 mins to reach either of them and then links to Lime Street, The Wirral, south Liverpool and Widnes, Kirkby, Ormskirk and Southport and all stations in between. The same for Sandhills.

I really do think the public transport links will be excellent and far better than what we have at Goodison. Going directly to the match, by car, will become a thing of the past.

Was the 19th Century snippet from personal experience??!!!

It's a good idea and you're right, the rs wouldn't miss a trick. I also think your idea of lighting up the Liver Building is a good one, or maybe just the birds.

I think our new ground could be lit up at night, as well.

Personal experiences? No, but sometimes this club does put years on you!

It seems the present pink for girls and and blue for boys originated in the US, as late as the 1940s.

'In 1918 the trade publication Earnshaw's Infants' Department claimed the “generally accepted rule is pink for the boys, and blue for the girls. The reason is that pink, being a more decided and stronger color, is more suitable for the boy, while blue, which is more delicate and dainty, is prettier for the girl.” Additionally, a 1927 issue of Time noted that large-scale department stores in Boston, Chicago, and New York suggested pink for boys'.

Of the strips Hummel and the club have come up with, it's the Black Watch one that has grown on me the most.

My mother always said that Wavertree took a lot, mostly aimed at the rail sidings at the bottom of the street.

“Let’s drop our shit and get out of here” was the motto. I’m sure there is a German translation for it.

Excuse the grammar and out of practice Deutsch, but I think I'm there or there abouts

Ron, he definitely was. He refused his medals, he never spoke about what he had done and seen. Until we were in a pub on the way home from Villa Park in 1989, after the FA Cup semi-final. We had been listening to the news from Hillsborough, a few Liverpool supporters wandered in. It must have been a trigger for him. His story was riveting and horrifying in equal measure.

I took pride in watching young people step up to the challenge of combating bad people. And there are bad people out there that need sorting out. Pride in doing what you need to do to sort that out, but also pride in doing what needs to be done to look after each other.
Teamwork. Companionship. Comrade of the highest order.

I take pride in what I did but I also try to forget it. Like the person you worked with, I'll never glorify it. It was a job.

I've lost close friends and don't like to talk about it. Worse than that for me (and I was at a remembrance for a dear friend 2 weeks ago) was having to face a young lad who I deployed who lost his legs. Looking his mother in the eyes is the hardest thing I've ever done.

Sorry to go sombre, but you're right, we just want to get on with life. And watching football and Everton helps us do that. Perspective.

Sorry all. I get emotional about this stuff.

And more so about my Everton!!