Carlo Ancelotti calls Champions League final a derby because he's "still an Evertonian"

Tony @263 alludes to Pep fucking that up and that's how I saw it too, taking off De Bruyne and (especially) Mahrez was over-managing at its best/worst. Our Frank never would have done that, at least not before the 80th minute. So it goes that I'm cheering for Carlo to win another Champions League for Real Madrid, funny old world innit?

Congrats to Seattle Sounders for becoming the first MLS side to win the CONCACAF Champions League where many others including Toronto have failed. They're pretty much the model MLS franchise with sustained competitiveness, so well done.

Under Carlo we "struggled" to 17 wins and 59 points, spending the entire season in the top half of the table.

Right now, with most of the same players, we're in the relegation zone and will likely end up 20 points worse.

What he "squeezed" out looks pretty goddamned impressive right now.

Ancelotti wasn't the right man for Everton? Pffffah. Everton wasn't the right club for Ancelotti.

I wasn't a huge fan of Ancelloti at Everton but curious to know how you think this season has proved him a bad fit? If anything, doesn't the contrast reflect rather well on him?

An incoherent transfer approach over several years resulting in a collection of odds and sods combined with players who aren't good enough.

Consistent hiring and firing of managers who start something then don't get to see it through.

A board that doesn't know how to run a football club, let alone a business. But we do Everton in the Community stuff and are the People's Club.

No. We are first and foremost a football club and one of the biggest in England; could be Europe if we believed it.

It all adds up. I personally don't blame Ancelotti. Everton must have opened his eyes. He's wise enough and understands the game. He will have known Everton are a big name in the game with big plans (stadium) and a billionaire owner. What an opportunity. Then he got into the corridors of Goodison Park and Finch Farm, lifted our skirt, and saw the reality.

We thought big but once again, couldn't follow it through because we stand still and have done for 35 years, selling existence and Top 7 as the expectation.

He possibly saw what was coming and got an offer from Real Madrid. Why wouldn't he take that in the circumstances? He's just become the first manager to win the league in each of the 5 top European leagues and reached the European Champions League Final.

I get your point. Give him the right players and set-up and he will succeed. But even that's not as straight-forward as it sounds. It can be a different challenge managing elite players as you are dealing with massive egos. It takes a different type of manager and not everyone can do it. All have their ceiling and levels.

Our problem is that we don't have the right players and the club is still being run like its 1990. Most managers will struggle and have done.

I don't blame most of the managers we have rotated through. They weren't given the support or the tools to succeed to the levels we want to. One or two walked when something better came along, most were hung out to dry and then used as a deflection from the real problem to satisfy the masses that something was being done.

The manager position at Everton isn't the problem and fixating on that is not the answer.

I'll go and get my positive head back on. Apologies for the negativity.

I suspect Ancelotti would have coped by playing almost unbearable football while the fans call him a coward and a dinosaur for being unable to get us in the Top 4. A Top 10 finish would have been unlikely though in the circumstances, I expect.

Unfortunately no manager is going to get us into the Top 4 in the foreseeable future.

We have been in the Top 4 only twice in the last 30 years – and our squad quality and finances are miles off 6 teams at least. There are probably 6 other clubs that are well run, with good squads and managers too. They are ahead of us on merit. Newcastle's riches give them a huge advantage now too.

Since there is zero chance of success in the short term, hopefully we take the opportunity to stop kidding ourselves and build for the medium to long term (which really could bring the success we crave).

If I was halfway through my psychology degree, I'd also say that I think Ancelotti's departure triggered Kenwright into his own reverse psychology, even if it was to only really try and reassure himself, because I'm not sure our lovable chairman could ever tell a lie!

I agree with everything in your post and I posted yesterday saying I wish we had appointed Ancelotti instead of Koeman, I believe he would have put this club on the right footing. You and I are in complete agreement in the constant changing of managers has achieved nothing, although I do question the appointment of a couple of them.

I think with this club struggling financially for years, when Moshiri came in, we believed we would follow the same route as Chelsea and Man City when they had new owners who were prepared to spend millions to get them to the top. But both Chelsea and Man City hired managers who had already won things whereas we hired a man who had been a great player but had done nothing in management.

To make a comparison, they both opened restaurants and employed Michelin star chefs whereas we employed the guy that was doing well at the local greasy spoon.

But it's no good looking back… only in maybe learning from our many mistakes; we now have to look forward. Seems quite ironic that we are in the Bottom 3, where you would expect the fans to be protesting and asking for the manager to be sacked, it's quite the opposite.

I don't think I can ever remember a manager at Everton being in the bottom half of the table and most of the supporters wanting us to stick with him whatever happens. Seems that the fans more than the owner have realised it wasn't a great time to take over and he deserves time to turn it around.

None of us know if Lampard is going to be the manager who finally turns this ship around, but most are backing him, would be nice if the owner had as much faith as the fans and announce Lampard and his coaches will be in charge next season.

Do you honestly think Ancelotti would have got 59 points this season with the players Benitez and Lampard have had to use?

As Robert says, we have had a much weakened squad with the absence of Calvert-Lewin, Mina, Richarlison for long spells, Sigurdsson completely, Godfrey a different player to last season because of the virus, Townsend missing the rest of the season.

Ancelotti is a great manager without a doubt but didn't do it at Everton because we just didn't and don't have the players to make a successful team, a squad built by five or six different managers and DOF under the chairmanship of a man who failed to use Moshiri's money wisely and seemingly let different people have a go at spending it without caring which players were coming to the club.

Carlo saw the state the club was in and who was running it, he's not soft he just did a Ponsous Pilate, washed his hands and “Done a runner”.

I don't think anyone can answer your question of would Ancelotti have got 59 points this season, but I don't think we would be in the relegation zone. I think you answer your own question when you correctly say Ancelotti IS a great manager, the stats tell us probably the best. As for players missing through injury we had players injured under Ancelotti but being a great manager he didnt let it effect the team as many would have done. Lets not forget he had James missing for lots of games, and he actually only bought 2 players James and Allan, both Doucoure and Godfrey have said that Ancelotti hadn't heard of them.

I suspect the burglary at his home while his Daughter was there had an influence on him leaving, I also think when he found out that there was little or no money to spend in the summer also had an effect. But to know what a great manager he was look at how he coached DCL and got him regularly in the England set up, Keane looked a different player under Ancelotti as did Godfrey who has looked a shadow of himself since Ancelotti left. To think he left with many posters suggesting he was past his best only to prove them all wrong by winning the league with Real Madrid while also somehow getting them to the Champions league final. While on the way to that final while not playing great beat PSG, Chelsea and Man City. How I wish he was till here, I also think he started to implement some changes in his short time here which was also effected by Covid. Many young players training with the first team, sending the older ones out on loan thus freeing up places for the younger players to move up to the Under 23s.

The BBC have got a very good article up about Richarlison today, I wish I could get it onto these pages for everyone to read, because it puts the kid in a very good light. This is something I’ve now realized has been put onto these pages from Lyndon’s, “on the web”

Our problems since Moyes left have not been down solely to the managers employed.

I agree with Brian that Ancelotti would have us safe in mid table, no way we would be in the he relegation zone.

With regards managers we have one now that’s stated he wants to be at Everton as long as possible. He ‘s committed, and will stay until he is told he is unwanted. He is young, hungry respected by the players and has a strong backroom team. He’s learning and now shown he is willing to adapt. Also he is showing motivational skills too, the team look more focused and ready these last few weeks.

All the ingredients are there for him to be a team and identity builder for the club. It’s time to stick with him through thick and thin, it will gradually pay dividends in seasons to come.

I also saw a quote from him after last night that made me smile.

"I've lived in Liverpool for two years, for me it's like a derby, I'm still an 'Evertonian' so it feels personal to me.”

Talking about facing them in the final at Paris. Obviously they are just words, but nice sentiment to our club as I believe he always had.

For me, a crying shame it didnt work out, but now we back Lampard and look forward as Brian says.

I'm more concerned with Everton to be bothered about anything else, but good luck to Carlo.

I think you make a good point when you mention made his mind up to go when he realised there would be no money to spend on new players, don’t know when he found that out but he had given up well before the end of last season with some of the performances home and away plus the fact he let Rodriguez dictate when he was fit or not, just shrugged his shoulders at that.

I think his mind was well made up before took the Real Madrid job. Who could blame him? Everton wasn’t for him although being here he was very well paid and it enabled him to give his son valuable time learning as a coach, he is still in the same position at Real.

Of course, their arrogant supporters will assume they will roll over Real Madrid with ease. Let's see.

"Once Everton has touched you, nothing will be the same."

The original quote continues:

"Once it gets a hold of you, and you realise what it means to the supporters… people say football is a matter of life and death but it really is here.”

I think that makes more sense than the other one that Evertonians on here seem to prefer to quote, from somebody else who also had a claim to fame... until his delightful club kicked him to the kerb.

No doubt the world and his wife will be eulogising him over the next few weeks, I'll happily leave them to it.

Carlo would be an Italian stallion, used to being with and fawned over by beautiful models. He was in a relationship with a Spanish beauty, Miss World. He gets dumped, but finds a rather frumpy English lady named Evelyn with a lovely personality, who used to be quite good looking. Her kids really like him, they think he's cool.

Suddenly Evelyn starts taking more interest in herself, doing herself up, losing weight, everyone takes notice and thinks she looks great. People want to be around her, she is popular once more. Everyone says it's because of Carlo, he is giving her the confidence to be her old self once more.

But the effort of looking this good becomes tiresome. And, it's expensive. Slowly, she stops making the effort. Carlo realises Evelyn is basically a broke, dowdy old bint and regrets he shacked up with her. His wandering eye (and eyebrow) starts to look around.

He then gets a call from his Spanish beauty ex, the former Miss World. She has broken up with her supermodel boyfriend and she misses Carlo and the great times they had together.

Carlo doesn't need to be asked twice and packs his bags, tells Evelyn he really enjoyed their time together. He he wants to give Miss World another go.

He tells Evelyn it's not her, it's him (but really, it is her). And, because he's a gentleman, he would like to remain friends.

Evelyn then panics; her kids are pissed off. In a desperate attempt to avoid being alone, she shacks up with the neighbour's ex (whom she fucking hates!), who has just been released from prison for fraud and theft. The kids try to warn her but she will not listen. It is doomed to failure.

They hear Carlo and Miss World are very happy and things are working out great. Evelyn and the kids are begrudgingly happy, mildly jealous. They wish him the best through gritted teeth and mutter under their breaths, "that could have been us".

We need to focus on the now and getting a result on Sunday and following it up with a win next Wednesday. If we have 35/36 points at this time next week, then the world will be a better place!

He is a world class manager, he is a pragmatist who organises a team based on the squad he has, he is a great man manager, he would not have sold James and Digne and, finally, he is not the Spanish sociopath.

One of biggest clubs in the world came in for him, he knew that the funds he'd been promised when he signed the contract had evaporated and he had experience of the dysfunctional behaviour of the board. No need to take his decision personally - I actually don't blame him.

That and Carlo's ability to shut it down could have produced some ability to get a goal and then shut it down which would be jeered but likely would get us near top half of the table even – with this battered roster. He may have attracted another No 10 rather than Iwobi as well, although I am not willing to slag Iwobi after his turnaround in form.

It is a top class statement from the gentleman, all things considered.

Far better Real Madrid to face the creatures of the night than big-game bottlers, Man City – what a shocking outfit they are considering their resources they should clean up every year.

Conte is the man City need now; Pep has been confirmed as a flat-track bully.

The running commentary for many months here has been that Carlo departed because he finally saw the problems in the club. Sorry, but I'm gonna flip off that theory. He's one of the smartest football men in the world and he already knew the situation when he joined us.

I say he left for one reason and one reason only... he got an offer from the best football club in the world. Nobody with an ounce of sanity would turn down Real Madrid to stay at Everton.

Dave #9, no, I don't. But he wouldn't have cast off James Rodriguez and he would likely have done some nice transfer business like he did before last season, getting in quality players (like James and Allan) on his reputation and past relationships. So I think he'd have had us in a comfortable, dull 12th, surrounded by disturbed fans who didn't realize last season just how bad things could get.

Brian #8, Carlo wasn't available when we appointed Koeman. He had already signed in with Bayern Munich.

When Evelyn gets her big new house in Bootle, maybe things will start looking up for her. Who knows one day she may yet get the opportunity to promenade past her stylish old boyfriend with head held high.

Spot on with Carlo... indeed, he telegraphed his intentions when signing on the dotted line with Everton by insisting that a clause be inserted in his contract that he could walk if he got the right offer from elsewhere.

Some people (rightly) slag Benitez for him calling us a "small club" in an interview... for fuck's sake, Carlo put it in a legal document!

I know he was an acquired taste to many on here but his absence pretty much blew a large hole in our mediocre midfield before we even got going.

That's besides Calvert-Lewin, Richarlison and Doucouré missing a significant number of games.

Yes, we've been awful this season – but look at the number of games we've lost by one goal.

Fragile confidence, coughing up set-piece goals, lack of clean sheets, and the highest goals from errors.

Another league title, and possibly Champions League, to go on his glittering CV – and this is the same bloke some of our fans wanted out during some of our struggles last season.

The man has still got it and let's hope he shows Klopp up on 28 May.

Moyes was given a lot of stick for not signing a new contract with Everton and denying us compensation when he went to Man Utd. No-one argued the biggest club in the country were after him... blah, blah, blah...

Yet somehow people are now justifying Carlo's "escape clause"?

I rather think one is speculation which still remains an urban myth and the other is enshrined in a legal contract but anyhoo that's a distraction...

Carlo insisted on a "get out" clause... are you supportive of that?

Only he hadn't won a thing, inherited the Champions of England and took them to 7th place.

He was out of his depth and couldn't handle the expectation. He's better off at West Ham (or dare I say Everton...) without expectation of better things?

Ancelotti is a proven winner at the highest level and is proving it again.

You okay with Carlo insisting on a "get out" clause with Everton?

If Ancelotti knew Everton's situation was so bad before he joined us, then I'd say he took massive wages while he was here knowing he could leave any time it suited him. One of the smartest men in football, as you say, but I'd add he was one of the slyest and looked after his own interests very well.

As for his Everton spin on the Champions League final... I think the Italian believes in karma and is seeking to make amends before the match for disrespecting us!

It's also news to me that Ancelotti had this clause in his contract from the start of his time with us, never heard it at all until he went to Real Madrid.

The man was a well paid fraud and I am sad to admit that I bought the con story for far too many years. I think that is why he still gets debated on here as no one likes to admit they have been diddled

Then the weather turned and so did our form. However, walking home from my pals in Aintree all the way to Lydiate at 1AM on derby night, hammered, singing "Carlo Fantastico" at the top of my lungs on Switch Island will always live with me.

I do think Carlo knows how to beat Klopp. It will be tough with their quality forwards and Madrid's shaky defence. It will be interesting but if anyone can get another one over on Liverpool and Klopp it's our Don Carlo. Just to see their faces if he does it would be great because you know if they win it we won't hear the last of it. They will have a song out within a week something.

As for cutting the wage bill, James said publicly he would have stayed under any circumstances. Benitez couldn't have been under too much urgent pressure to reduce wages, because Mina and Delph are still here (and aren't we glad of it right now!), and don't bet Carlo wouldn't have made the same decision on the overpaid Digne.

I don't find anything "sly" about taking care of one's own interests. And I'm sure Carlo would still be with us if Real Madrid hadn't come calling. Can't hardly blame him for taking that opportunity, which has worked out pretty well for him.

Unlike some posters on here...I'll hold my hand up and admit that I wasn't in the room when Carlo signed the contract. However, it was generally reported when Carlo left us that Everton had received no compensation because there was a clause to this effect in the contract.

Quite prepared to admit I'm wrong if I see a more convincing explanation.

Actually, for top proven managers, it's not an unusual contract element. To me it doesn't denote a lack of commitment, just an awareness that they're stepping into a difficult situation and don't want to get trapped in it, especially if there are opportunities out there.

In fact, I think that if Carlo did in fact have such a clause (I've never seen a published report on it), that actually supports my contention that he knew exactly what he was getting into when he joined Everton.

So all in all, it doesn’t really matter.

As for Carlo using his influence to get players in on free transfers, signing on fees and wages could have been a problem there in Everton’s situation, Gary and Townsend were good signings but their signing on fees and wages were not comparable to some of the incoming players of the past few years, we seem to have learned from past dealings and of course the income and outcome has had to taken into consideration or we could be in trouble there.

Carlo’s slyness comes into it if he did have such a contract because to me that would mean he had a half hearted way of taking the job.

"Brendan #34, #40, #43, #45, #48,"
No more than you have an obsession with me..only joking...I like someone who reads a thread and pays attention.

For me it's a massively different job from most Mike (obviously you know that) and when you insist on a "get out" clause when you sign the contract it's not good.

We did get compensation for Carlo's move didn't we? I heard in the range of £30M. I think Moyes left behind some Presbyterian propaganda and other prized trinkets.

Heard nothing about compensation for Carlo and I'll await more informed TW's putting you and I right.

As for the "hard work" Presbyterian mantra he left us... we've missed it... no?

I don't give a toss about Euro competitions whilst Everton are not part of them considering all the dross from many piss-poor leagues that are allowed to enter.

There are just too many competitions and too many games.

here is a lot of unsubstantiated conjecture when it come down to wages and transfer fees so it is a subject best left alone.

All that matters is what happens on the pitch and sadly very little good things have happened with our beloved team this season and not much more on previous seasons to speak of.

We are still in dire straights this season and we just cannot depend on other teams losing.

We need another big game on Sunday against the Foxes, that goes without saying and not have to leave things till the last week of the season when we visit Arsenal.

To contradict myself, I would blindly sign a contract for life with Everton without looking at the terms. But if we want the best, we aren't going to get incompetent idiots like me.

Tom, I'm being sarcastic, so this is not aimed at you, just me being perdantic. But reputable managers? We've had few in recent years.

David Moyes - Preston manager who has won nothing and flops when the pressure in on.

Martinez - won the FA Cup but got relegated

Silva - relegated but now promoted. Let's see. Is his level bouncing between top tier and second tier? Good coach though in fairness.

Koeman - overrated and didn't want to be at Everton really. Has he succeeded since despite getting his dream gig?

Don't talk to me about the next name.

In my opinion, we haven't had any of the names we should have been looking at. Aside from Ancelotti, we have been taking a punt on possibles. I know that's football but we seem to be scared of success - for example Ancelotti. Many would rather have turned to 50-year-old untried Duncan Ferguson because he loves Everton as much as me. Just hire me if that is the view.

This season is the first time that I have rooted for Real Madrid and it is only because Carlo is their coach. His substitutions yesterday were brilliant. Bring on the shite!

Danny O

Never ever signed up with a company with a get out clause in tne contract. Indeed if I had felt the need for one...I would not have signed on in the first place.

How did that work in the army?

😊

They tried it on even with Ancelotti, as they have done with every manager. The squad, in the main – with support at Finch Farm – did not want to play in Europe.

Not prepared to put in the 'work and effort' as Ancelotti publicly said at the time. Richarlison’s comments just confirmed the attitude that existed. If Ancelotti had have tried to change things, like Benitez did during the October International break, he would have had to deal with the same resistance as Benitez did. Bear in mind, this was necessary change and still is.

Ancelotti was offered European football at Real Madrid, plus he got a insight into the lack of Summer transfer money available. It was a no-brainer where he would go.

I also believe he is an Evertonian. It was not the fans who drove him out. I will be supporting Ancelotti in the final.

I'll give a response a go. My get out clause is my notice period - which is the same as the company's to me. That's written in black and white on my contract and works both ways. Okay, in the Army it was more restrictive, 12 months notice actually - both ways. But you could still "sign off" under those terms or be given notice for what they now call "non-blameworthy discharge".

Obviously, you and I are not on the scale of top flight football managers and I'm sure their contracts are far more specific about the terms of how they can terminate, but I don't suspect he's done anything more than what most managers do. They know they can be fired, so why wouldn't they protect themselves?

Especially given the life expectancy of the Everton managerial position in recent years?

It wouldn't surprise me, in fact I would totally expect, that Lampard has something in his contract. I am sure it is totally normal. No-one signs a contract for life.

But I just hope that whatever happens now, we settle down and stick with the plan. I've said previously, the signs on the football side look positive in terms of what is being put in place. Let's give it a chance, even if that means it's going to be a Big Dipper ride (for those who frequented Blackpool in their childhood).

As others have stated Carlo is a great manager for high quality teams, Mourhino is the same, in my opinion. As with many of the other famous names. Not many could get a tune out of this squad, I think Lampard is doing a great job, if we had got him earlier things would have been much better.

I still believe Koeman was responsible for a lot of our current woes.

I'll put my tin hat on

Sure he's won the lot...but only with all-star teams that had shit loads of cash to splash,to me he's another fucking greedy fraud that can't hold a candle to old big 'ed himself...plus he's a boring fucker too,am so glad he went!