Carlo Ancelotti calls Champions League final a derby because he's "still an Evertonian"

Thursday, 5 May, 2022 71comments  |  Jump to last
Carlo Ancelotti insists that he's "still an Evertonian" and says the Champions League final against Liverpool will be like a derby match for him.

"I lived in Liverpool for 2 years. For me it's like a derby because I am still an Evertonian," he stressed.

Ancelotti holds an impressive record over Klopp's Liverpool side, having faced them four times as Everton boss, winning once, drawing twice and losing the other.

» Read the full article at Daily Star


Reader Comments (71)

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Neil Tyrrell
1 Posted 05/05/2022 at 07:17:59
Just finished watching the game after my afternoon shift, thankfully managed to avoid hearing anything about it all day other than my dad messaging me that the first half wasn't worth watching.

Tony @263 alludes to Pep fucking that up and that's how I saw it too, taking off De Bruyne and (especially) Mahrez was over-managing at its best/worst. Our Frank never would have done that, at least not before the 80th minute. So it goes that I'm cheering for Carlo to win another Champions League for Real Madrid, funny old world innit?

Congrats to Seattle Sounders for becoming the first MLS side to win the CONCACAF Champions League where many others including Toronto have failed. They're pretty much the model MLS franchise with sustained competitiveness, so well done.

Andrew Ellams
2 Posted 05/05/2022 at 07:30:11
This season has proved that Ancelotti was not the right man for Everton. Give him a squad full of world class individuals and he'll win you trophies. Give him a squad that he has to squeeze to get the best out of and he'll struggle.
Mike Gaynes
3 Posted 05/05/2022 at 08:07:47
Riiiiight, Andrew.

Under Carlo we "struggled" to 17 wins and 59 points, spending the entire season in the top half of the table.

Right now, with most of the same players, we're in the relegation zone and will likely end up 20 points worse.

What he "squeezed" out looks pretty goddamned impressive right now.

Ancelotti wasn't the right man for Everton? Pffffah. Everton wasn't the right club for Ancelotti.

Sam Hoare
4 Posted 05/05/2022 at 08:30:41
Andrew,

I wasn't a huge fan of Ancelloti at Everton but curious to know how you think this season has proved him a bad fit? If anything, doesn't the contrast reflect rather well on him?

Danny O’Neill
5 Posted 05/05/2022 at 08:39:08
I think anyone will have and has struggled with our squad Andrew.

An incoherent transfer approach over several years resulting in a collection of odds and sods combined with players who aren't good enough.

Consistent hiring and firing of managers who start something then don't get to see it through.

A board that doesn't know how to run a football club, let alone a business. But we do Everton in the Community stuff and are the People's Club.

No. We are first and foremost a football club and one of the biggest in England; could be Europe if we believed it.

It all adds up. I personally don't blame Ancelotti. Everton must have opened his eyes. He's wise enough and understands the game. He will have known Everton are a big name in the game with big plans (stadium) and a billionaire owner. What an opportunity. Then he got into the corridors of Goodison Park and Finch Farm, lifted our skirt, and saw the reality.

We thought big but once again, couldn't follow it through because we stand still and have done for 35 years, selling existence and Top 7 as the expectation.

He possibly saw what was coming and got an offer from Real Madrid. Why wouldn't he take that in the circumstances? He's just become the first manager to win the league in each of the 5 top European leagues and reached the European Champions League Final.

I get your point. Give him the right players and set-up and he will succeed. But even that's not as straight-forward as it sounds. It can be a different challenge managing elite players as you are dealing with massive egos. It takes a different type of manager and not everyone can do it. All have their ceiling and levels.

Our problem is that we don't have the right players and the club is still being run like its 1990. Most managers will struggle and have done.

I don't blame most of the managers we have rotated through. They weren't given the support or the tools to succeed to the levels we want to. One or two walked when something better came along, most were hung out to dry and then used as a deflection from the real problem to satisfy the masses that something was being done.

The manager position at Everton isn't the problem and fixating on that is not the answer.

I'll go and get my positive head back on. Apologies for the negativity.

Robert Tressell
6 Posted 05/05/2022 at 09:35:01
Any manager would struggle without Calvert-Lewin, Mina and Richarlison for long stretches plus the absence of Sigurdsson.

I suspect Ancelotti would have coped by playing almost unbearable football while the fans call him a coward and a dinosaur for being unable to get us in the Top 4. A Top 10 finish would have been unlikely though in the circumstances, I expect.

Unfortunately no manager is going to get us into the Top 4 in the foreseeable future.

We have been in the Top 4 only twice in the last 30 years – and our squad quality and finances are miles off 6 teams at least. There are probably 6 other clubs that are well run, with good squads and managers too. They are ahead of us on merit. Newcastle's riches give them a huge advantage now too.

Since there is zero chance of success in the short term, hopefully we take the opportunity to stop kidding ourselves and build for the medium to long term (which really could bring the success we crave).

Tony Abrahams
7 Posted 05/05/2022 at 10:01:10
Then he got into the corridors of Finch Farm and Goodison Park, and lifted our skirts and saw the reality; sounds about right Danny.

If I was halfway through my psychology degree, I'd also say that I think Ancelotti's departure triggered Kenwright into his own reverse psychology, even if it was to only really try and reassure himself, because I'm not sure our lovable chairman could ever tell a lie!

Brian Harrison
8 Posted 05/05/2022 at 10:13:03
Danny,

I agree with everything in your post and I posted yesterday saying I wish we had appointed Ancelotti instead of Koeman, I believe he would have put this club on the right footing. You and I are in complete agreement in the constant changing of managers has achieved nothing, although I do question the appointment of a couple of them.

I think with this club struggling financially for years, when Moshiri came in, we believed we would follow the same route as Chelsea and Man City when they had new owners who were prepared to spend millions to get them to the top. But both Chelsea and Man City hired managers who had already won things whereas we hired a man who had been a great player but had done nothing in management.

To make a comparison, they both opened restaurants and employed Michelin star chefs whereas we employed the guy that was doing well at the local greasy spoon.

But it's no good looking back… only in maybe learning from our many mistakes; we now have to look forward. Seems quite ironic that we are in the Bottom 3, where you would expect the fans to be protesting and asking for the manager to be sacked, it's quite the opposite.

I don't think I can ever remember a manager at Everton being in the bottom half of the table and most of the supporters wanting us to stick with him whatever happens. Seems that the fans more than the owner have realised it wasn't a great time to take over and he deserves time to turn it around.

None of us know if Lampard is going to be the manager who finally turns this ship around, but most are backing him, would be nice if the owner had as much faith as the fans and announce Lampard and his coaches will be in charge next season.

Dave Abrahams
9 Posted 05/05/2022 at 10:20:04
Mike,

Do you honestly think Ancelotti would have got 59 points this season with the players Benitez and Lampard have had to use?

As Robert says, we have had a much weakened squad with the absence of Calvert-Lewin, Mina, Richarlison for long spells, Sigurdsson completely, Godfrey a different player to last season because of the virus, Townsend missing the rest of the season.

Ancelotti is a great manager without a doubt but didn't do it at Everton because we just didn't and don't have the players to make a successful team, a squad built by five or six different managers and DOF under the chairmanship of a man who failed to use Moshiri's money wisely and seemingly let different people have a go at spending it without caring which players were coming to the club.

Carlo saw the state the club was in and who was running it, he's not soft he just did a Ponsous Pilate, washed his hands and “Done a runner”.

Brian Harrison
10 Posted 05/05/2022 at 10:41:44
Dave,

I don't think anyone can answer your question of would Ancelotti have got 59 points this season, but I don't think we would be in the relegation zone. I think you answer your own question when you correctly say Ancelotti IS a great manager, the stats tell us probably the best. As for players missing through injury we had players injured under Ancelotti but being a great manager he didnt let it effect the team as many would have done. Lets not forget he had James missing for lots of games, and he actually only bought 2 players James and Allan, both Doucoure and Godfrey have said that Ancelotti hadn't heard of them.

I suspect the burglary at his home while his Daughter was there had an influence on him leaving, I also think when he found out that there was little or no money to spend in the summer also had an effect. But to know what a great manager he was look at how he coached DCL and got him regularly in the England set up, Keane looked a different player under Ancelotti as did Godfrey who has looked a shadow of himself since Ancelotti left. To think he left with many posters suggesting he was past his best only to prove them all wrong by winning the league with Real Madrid while also somehow getting them to the Champions league final. While on the way to that final while not playing great beat PSG, Chelsea and Man City. How I wish he was till here, I also think he started to implement some changes in his short time here which was also effected by Covid. Many young players training with the first team, sending the older ones out on loan thus freeing up places for the younger players to move up to the Under 23s.

Tony Abrahams
11 Posted 05/05/2022 at 10:49:22
I did read a report last week in which Ancellotti, described living in Liverpool, as like living in a permanent pandemic, but nobody has questioned this or asked him to elaborate, which is something I’d have personally wanted to hear him speak a little bit more about?

The BBC have got a very good article up about Richarlison today, I wish I could get it onto these pages for everyone to read, because it puts the kid in a very good light. This is something I’ve now realized has been put onto these pages from Lyndon’s, “on the web”

Christopher Timmins
12 Posted 05/05/2022 at 11:03:56
Carlo's side wins the Spanish League at the weekend and qualifies for the Champions League last night. Marco's side win the Championship on Monday, finishing off the job with a 7 goal victory.

Our problems since Moyes left have not been down solely to the managers employed.

Tony Everan
13 Posted 05/05/2022 at 11:09:19
With regards Ancelotti, I do think the burglary was the catalyst but the tippping point must have been when he was told there was no possibility of meaningful strengthening due to FFP restraints. He probably thought there and then that he was faced with a near impossible task.

I agree with Brian that Ancelotti would have us safe in mid table, no way we would be in the he relegation zone.

With regards managers we have one now that’s stated he wants to be at Everton as long as possible. He ‘s committed, and will stay until he is told he is unwanted. He is young, hungry respected by the players and has a strong backroom team. He’s learning and now shown he is willing to adapt. Also he is showing motivational skills too, the team look more focused and ready these last few weeks.

All the ingredients are there for him to be a team and identity builder for the club. It’s time to stick with him through thick and thin, it will gradually pay dividends in seasons to come.

Danny O’Neill
14 Posted 05/05/2022 at 11:12:00
I guess it might be that he arrived just as the pandemic kicked in maybe Tony and that characterised his time here? Possibly effected it?? That's maybe what he meant.

I also saw a quote from him after last night that made me smile.

"I've lived in Liverpool for two years, for me it's like a derby, I'm still an 'Evertonian' so it feels personal to me.

Talking about facing them in the final at Paris. Obviously they are just words, but nice sentiment to our club as I believe he always had.

For me, a crying shame it didnt work out, but now we back Lampard and look forward as Brian says.

I'm more concerned with Everton to be bothered about anything else, but good luck to Carlo.

Dave Abrahams
15 Posted 05/05/2022 at 11:46:22
Brian, yes we will never know how Carlo would have fared but looking at just two of the players you mention, Calvert-Lewin and his 16 league goals with Keane playing in a team defending from their own penalty area, the only way Keane can operate successfully, what a difference that would have made from just two players.

I think you make a good point when you mention made his mind up to go when he realised there would be no money to spend on new players, don’t know when he found that out but he had given up well before the end of last season with some of the performances home and away plus the fact he let Rodriguez dictate when he was fit or not, just shrugged his shoulders at that.

I think his mind was well made up before took the Real Madrid job. Who could blame him? Everton wasn’t for him although being here he was very well paid and it enabled him to give his son valuable time learning as a coach, he is still in the same position at Real.

Steve Brown
16 Posted 05/05/2022 at 13:00:27
I always back Carlo to defeat the red shite – he has beaten them eight times and even managed it with us at Anfield.

Of course, their arrogant supporters will assume they will roll over Real Madrid with ease. Let's see.

Tom Richards
17 Posted 05/05/2022 at 13:13:09
https://twitter.com/efcswe/status/1522110405379776512?s=24&t=fCBiZQrV5M4eEY8yEgtYHA
Christopher Timmins
18 Posted 05/05/2022 at 13:19:31
Carlo will fancy his chances in the Final, with the League in the bag he can focus fully on the final and rest players in the coming weeks.
Peter Carpenter
19 Posted 05/05/2022 at 13:41:23
He was just doing what many of us do between jobs; a bit of voluntary work with the poor and unfortunate. His voluntary work was quite well paid though.
Michael Kenrick
20 Posted 05/05/2022 at 13:58:09
As someone famous once said...

"Once Everton has touched you, nothing will be the same."

The original quote continues:

"Once it gets a hold of you, and you realise what it means to the supporters… people say football is a matter of life and death but it really is here.”

I think that makes more sense than the other one that Evertonians on here seem to prefer to quote, from somebody else who also had a claim to fame... until his delightful club kicked him to the kerb.

Kevin Molloy
21 Posted 05/05/2022 at 14:09:47
I can't stand Ancelotti. Are these the first words he's said about us since 'I enjoyed my time at Everton but..'?

No doubt the world and his wife will be eulogising him over the next few weeks, I'll happily leave them to it.

Alan McMillan
22 Posted 05/05/2022 at 14:15:02
If football clubs were women:

Carlo would be an Italian stallion, used to being with and fawned over by beautiful models. He was in a relationship with a Spanish beauty, Miss World. He gets dumped, but finds a rather frumpy English lady named Evelyn with a lovely personality, who used to be quite good looking. Her kids really like him, they think he's cool.

Suddenly Evelyn starts taking more interest in herself, doing herself up, losing weight, everyone takes notice and thinks she looks great. People want to be around her, she is popular once more. Everyone says it's because of Carlo, he is giving her the confidence to be her old self once more.

But the effort of looking this good becomes tiresome. And, it's expensive. Slowly, she stops making the effort. Carlo realises Evelyn is basically a broke, dowdy old bint and regrets he shacked up with her. His wandering eye (and eyebrow) starts to look around.

He then gets a call from his Spanish beauty ex, the former Miss World. She has broken up with her supermodel boyfriend and she misses Carlo and the great times they had together.

Carlo doesn't need to be asked twice and packs his bags, tells Evelyn he really enjoyed their time together. He he wants to give Miss World another go.

He tells Evelyn it's not her, it's him (but really, it is her). And, because he's a gentleman, he would like to remain friends.

Evelyn then panics; her kids are pissed off. In a desperate attempt to avoid being alone, she shacks up with the neighbour's ex (whom she fucking hates!), who has just been released from prison for fraud and theft. The kids try to warn her but she will not listen. It is doomed to failure.

They hear Carlo and Miss World are very happy and things are working out great. Evelyn and the kids are begrudgingly happy, mildly jealous. They wish him the best through gritted teeth and mutter under their breaths, "that could have been us".

Christopher Timmins
23 Posted 05/05/2022 at 14:16:49
Carlo and indeed Marco found out that there is life after Everton.

We need to focus on the now and getting a result on Sunday and following it up with a win next Wednesday. If we have 35/36 points at this time next week, then the world will be a better place!

Steve Brown
24 Posted 05/05/2022 at 14:20:28
Ancelotti would have done considerably better this season than our current position if he had stayed.

He is a world class manager, he is a pragmatist who organises a team based on the squad he has, he is a great man manager, he would not have sold James and Digne and, finally, he is not the Spanish sociopath.

One of biggest clubs in the world came in for him, he knew that the funds he'd been promised when he signed the contract had evaporated and he had experience of the dysfunctional behaviour of the board. No need to take his decision personally - I actually don't blame him.

Brian Murray
25 Posted 05/05/2022 at 14:41:03
Allan @22, Evelyn may be in the blue rinse brigade but she can't shake a damaging small-minded Arkwright with a biscuit tin mentality who blubs first sign of her letting go.
Danny O’Neill
26 Posted 05/05/2022 at 15:21:26
Very clever Allan @22. I enjoyed that post!!
Dale Self
27 Posted 05/05/2022 at 17:03:16
Let's remember, Carlo's teams had no width. With Gordon coming into reliable form, it is questionable whether Carlo would have relied on him to the degree we have but, even so, there is much more width in the squad now.

That and Carlo's ability to shut it down could have produced some ability to get a goal and then shut it down which would be jeered but likely would get us near top half of the table even – with this battered roster. He may have attracted another No 10 rather than Iwobi as well, although I am not willing to slag Iwobi after his turnaround in form.

It is a top class statement from the gentleman, all things considered.

Barry Rathbone
28 Posted 05/05/2022 at 17:39:11
Well in Carlo, go smash 'em.

Far better Real Madrid to face the creatures of the night than big-game bottlers, Man City – what a shocking outfit they are considering their resources they should clean up every year.

Conte is the man City need now; Pep has been confirmed as a flat-track bully.

Paul Hughes
29 Posted 05/05/2022 at 17:53:59
Well, let's hope Real don't play the final like it was a Merseyside derby.
Mike Gaynes
30 Posted 05/05/2022 at 19:05:49
Alan #22, nice creativity there.

The running commentary for many months here has been that Carlo departed because he finally saw the problems in the club. Sorry, but I'm gonna flip off that theory. He's one of the smartest football men in the world and he already knew the situation when he joined us.

I say he left for one reason and one reason only... he got an offer from the best football club in the world. Nobody with an ounce of sanity would turn down Real Madrid to stay at Everton.

Dave #9, no, I don't. But he wouldn't have cast off James Rodriguez and he would likely have done some nice transfer business like he did before last season, getting in quality players (like James and Allan) on his reputation and past relationships. So I think he'd have had us in a comfortable, dull 12th, surrounded by disturbed fans who didn't realize last season just how bad things could get.

Brian #8, Carlo wasn't available when we appointed Koeman. He had already signed in with Bayern Munich.

Tony Everan
31 Posted 05/05/2022 at 19:09:22
Alan #22, A cracker, You have me laughing out loud here.

When Evelyn gets her big new house in Bootle, maybe things will start looking up for her. Who knows one day she may yet get the opportunity to promenade past her stylish old boyfriend with head held high.

Duncan McDine
32 Posted 05/05/2022 at 19:10:29
Alan, that's brilliant!
Brent Stephens
33 Posted 05/05/2022 at 19:21:52
Very good, Alan!!
Brendan McLaughlin
34 Posted 05/05/2022 at 19:22:41
Mike #30

Spot on with Carlo... indeed, he telegraphed his intentions when signing on the dotted line with Everton by insisting that a clause be inserted in his contract that he could walk if he got the right offer from elsewhere.

Some people (rightly) slag Benitez for him calling us a "small club" in an interview... for fuck's sake, Carlo put it in a legal document!

Daniel A Johnson
35 Posted 05/05/2022 at 19:36:24
People shouldn't underestimate how much we have missed Sigurdsson this season. We've missed his goals, set-pieces, and at times his penalties.

I know he was an acquired taste to many on here but his absence pretty much blew a large hole in our mediocre midfield before we even got going.

Jay Harris
36 Posted 05/05/2022 at 19:40:27
Daniel,

That's besides Calvert-Lewin, Richarlison and Doucouré missing a significant number of games.

Ian Bennett
37 Posted 05/05/2022 at 19:41:47
Yep, strip away Calvert-Lewin's, Sigurdsson's and James's goals and assists from last season, and you'll get to the same number of defeats we've suffered this season.

Yes, we've been awful this season – but look at the number of games we've lost by one goal.

Fragile confidence, coughing up set-piece goals, lack of clean sheets, and the highest goals from errors.

Ste Traverse
38 Posted 05/05/2022 at 20:04:25
You're not going to stay at Everton if the biggest club in the world comes in for you are you?

Another league title, and possibly Champions League, to go on his glittering CV – and this is the same bloke some of our fans wanted out during some of our struggles last season.

The man has still got it and let's hope he shows Klopp up on 28 May.

Joe McMahon
39 Posted 05/05/2022 at 20:14:28
Ste, it makes you wonder if it really was true that Carlo offered Dunc a position on his team at Real Madrid. If he did, Dunc's a fool to turn it down.
Brendan McLaughlin
40 Posted 05/05/2022 at 20:19:28
Ste# 38,

Moyes was given a lot of stick for not signing a new contract with Everton and denying us compensation when he went to Man Utd. No-one argued the biggest club in the country were after him... blah, blah, blah...

Yet somehow people are now justifying Carlo's "escape clause"?

Dale Self
42 Posted 05/05/2022 at 20:23:56
One was in the contract and thus to be fully expected as a possible action; the other was revealed as a backroom understanding without any transparency. That's the difference I think.
Brendan McLaughlin
43 Posted 05/05/2022 at 20:39:10
Dale #42,

I rather think one is speculation which still remains an urban myth and the other is enshrined in a legal contract but anyhoo that's a distraction...

Carlo insisted on a "get out" clause... are you supportive of that?

Danny O’Neill
44 Posted 05/05/2022 at 20:42:56
I don't begrudge Moyes for turning down that opportunity at all.

Only he hadn't won a thing, inherited the Champions of England and took them to 7th place.

He was out of his depth and couldn't handle the expectation. He's better off at West Ham (or dare I say Everton...) without expectation of better things?

Ancelotti is a proven winner at the highest level and is proving it again.

Brendan McLaughlin
45 Posted 05/05/2022 at 20:51:28
So Danny #44,

You okay with Carlo insisting on a "get out" clause with Everton?

Dale Self
46 Posted 05/05/2022 at 20:54:20
Yes Brendan, transparency or a simple explanation from Moyes would clear that up. In Carlo's case it was clear as soon as the ink on the contract dried. I'm supporting Carlo to do the Reds and if he wants to put an Everton spin on that, I'm okay with that too.
Dave Abrahams
47 Posted 05/05/2022 at 20:57:22
Mike (30), what you are saying is that Everton would have found money for Ancelotti to buy some new players but denied Benitez the same privilege. It left Rafa at a disadvantage wouldn't you say and you could take it from that James would have been allowed to stay if Carlo was still here, Benitez was told to cut the wage bill.

If Ancelotti knew Everton's situation was so bad before he joined us, then I'd say he took massive wages while he was here knowing he could leave any time it suited him. One of the smartest men in football, as you say, but I'd add he was one of the slyest and looked after his own interests very well.

Brendan McLaughlin
48 Posted 05/05/2022 at 21:07:10
Dale #46,
Moyes has given his side of the story... it's just not believed. As for the Carlo clause, we didn't hear about it until he was gone... I'd have respected him more if it had been clear from the start.

As for his Everton spin on the Champions League final... I think the Italian believes in karma and is seeking to make amends before the match for disrespecting us!

Dave Abrahams
49 Posted 05/05/2022 at 21:16:40
Brendan (48),

It's also news to me that Ancelotti had this clause in his contract from the start of his time with us, never heard it at all until he went to Real Madrid.

James Hughes
50 Posted 05/05/2022 at 21:17:42
A real shame to see Creswell sent off, no doubt that genius manager will get them through. He only needs three goals.

The man was a well paid fraud and I am sad to admit that I bought the con story for far too many years. I think that is why he still gets debated on here as no one likes to admit they have been diddled

Brendan McLaughlin
51 Posted 05/05/2022 at 21:19:28
Dave #47
Second paragraph...on Carlo...nailed it!
Graeme Beresford
53 Posted 05/05/2022 at 21:33:32
I loved Carlo. Sure, some of his games and tactics were questionable; however, we beat Liverpool and Arsenal away. I loved us under him, especially at the start of last year. The sun was out, James was enjoying life, they were scoring, dancing, it was all groovy.

Then the weather turned and so did our form. However, walking home from my pals in Aintree all the way to Lydiate at 1AM on derby night, hammered, singing "Carlo Fantastico" at the top of my lungs on Switch Island will always live with me.

I do think Carlo knows how to beat Klopp. It will be tough with their quality forwards and Madrid's shaky defence. It will be interesting but if anyone can get another one over on Liverpool and Klopp it's our Don Carlo. Just to see their faces if he does it would be great because you know if they win it we won't hear the last of it. They will have a song out within a week something.

Mike Gaynes
54 Posted 05/05/2022 at 21:33:37
Dave #47, Carlo brought in James on a free transfer. You don't think he could have done the same thing before this season? Benitez brought in Townsend and Gray for virtually nothing. Carlo could have done at least as well, probably better given his worldwide connections.

As for cutting the wage bill, James said publicly he would have stayed under any circumstances. Benitez couldn't have been under too much urgent pressure to reduce wages, because Mina and Delph are still here (and aren't we glad of it right now!), and don't bet Carlo wouldn't have made the same decision on the overpaid Digne.

I don't find anything "sly" about taking care of one's own interests. And I'm sure Carlo would still be with us if Real Madrid hadn't come calling. Can't hardly blame him for taking that opportunity, which has worked out pretty well for him.

Brendan McLaughlin
55 Posted 05/05/2022 at 21:39:49
Dave #49,

Unlike some posters on here...I'll hold my hand up and admit that I wasn't in the room when Carlo signed the contract. However, it was generally reported when Carlo left us that Everton had received no compensation because there was a clause to this effect in the contract.

Quite prepared to admit I'm wrong if I see a more convincing explanation.

Mike Gaynes
56 Posted 05/05/2022 at 21:43:53
Brendan #34, #40, #43, #45, #48, you wouldn't have just a small obsession with Carlo's escape clause, would you?

Actually, for top proven managers, it's not an unusual contract element. To me it doesn't denote a lack of commitment, just an awareness that they're stepping into a difficult situation and don't want to get trapped in it, especially if there are opportunities out there.

In fact, I think that if Carlo did in fact have such a clause (I've never seen a published report on it), that actually supports my contention that he knew exactly what he was getting into when he joined Everton.

Graeme Beresford
57 Posted 05/05/2022 at 21:52:49
If he did or didn’t have a clause, he was still entitled to resign from his position, forfeiting any bonus’ and wages due, leaving him to take a job elsewhere.

So all in all, it doesn’t really matter.

Dave Abrahams
59 Posted 05/05/2022 at 22:04:12
Mike (54), No manager alive could get rid of some of Everton’s players urgent or not because of the fabulous and ridiculous wages they are on,Delph will more than likely go at the end of the season because his contract is up and Mina will go if they can get someone to take him off our hands but his injuries will be a handicap to that so there is a good chance he will sit his time out here until his contract is up.

As for Carlo using his influence to get players in on free transfers, signing on fees and wages could have been a problem there in Everton’s situation, Gary and Townsend were good signings but their signing on fees and wages were not comparable to some of the incoming players of the past few years, we seem to have learned from past dealings and of course the income and outcome has had to taken into consideration or we could be in trouble there.

Carlo’s slyness comes into it if he did have such a contract because to me that would mean he had a half hearted way of taking the job.

Brendan McLaughlin
60 Posted 05/05/2022 at 22:11:02
Mike#56

"Brendan #34, #40, #43, #45, #48,"
No more than you have an obsession with me..only joking...I like someone who reads a thread and pays attention.

For me it's a massively different job from most Mike (obviously you know that) and when you insist on a "get out" clause when you sign the contract it's not good.


Dale Self
63 Posted 05/05/2022 at 22:19:36
Okay Brendan, I'll admit I have not seen the contract clause but the sequence of events and the seamless move to Real are certainly consistent with that story.

We did get compensation for Carlo's move didn't we? I heard in the range of £30M. I think Moyes left behind some Presbyterian propaganda and other prized trinkets.

Brendan McLaughlin
64 Posted 05/05/2022 at 22:28:44
Dale #63,

Heard nothing about compensation for Carlo and I'll await more informed TW's putting you and I right.

As for the "hard work" Presbyterian mantra he left us... we've missed it... no?

Tom Bowers
65 Posted 05/05/2022 at 23:03:04
Bottom line is that many of these reputable managers Everton have had have all been abysmal failures regardless of the excuses that may be applied and the money or compensation that was or wasn't given.

I don't give a toss about Euro competitions whilst Everton are not part of them considering all the dross from many piss-poor leagues that are allowed to enter.

There are just too many competitions and too many games.

here is a lot of unsubstantiated conjecture when it come down to wages and transfer fees so it is a subject best left alone.

All that matters is what happens on the pitch and sadly very little good things have happened with our beloved team this season and not much more on previous seasons to speak of.

We are still in dire straights this season and we just cannot depend on other teams losing.

We need another big game on Sunday against the Foxes, that goes without saying and not have to leave things till the last week of the season when we visit Arsenal.

Danny O’Neill
66 Posted 05/05/2022 at 23:49:49
To answer your question Brendan, why wouldn't any individual signing a contract with a company look after themselves? They often can be fired quicker than they can leave, especially in football, so they are going to protect their own interests. Don't we all do that when we sign up for a job?

To contradict myself, I would blindly sign a contract for life with Everton without looking at the terms. But if we want the best, we aren't going to get incompetent idiots like me.

Tom, I'm being sarcastic, so this is not aimed at you, just me being perdantic. But reputable managers? We've had few in recent years.

David Moyes - Preston manager who has won nothing and flops when the pressure in on.

Martinez - won the FA Cup but got relegated

Silva - relegated but now promoted. Let's see. Is his level bouncing between top tier and second tier? Good coach though in fairness.

Koeman - overrated and didn't want to be at Everton really. Has he succeeded since despite getting his dream gig?

Don't talk to me about the next name.

In my opinion, we haven't had any of the names we should have been looking at. Aside from Ancelotti, we have been taking a punt on possibles. I know that's football but we seem to be scared of success - for example Ancelotti. Many would rather have turned to 50-year-old untried Duncan Ferguson because he loves Everton as much as me. Just hire me if that is the view.

Ed Prytherch
67 Posted 06/05/2022 at 00:28:54
I am happy that Carlo was Everton coach and sad that he did not stay longer. I did not know too much about him so I bought both of his books and the more I read the more I liked him. I then began to understand his man management at Everton which was brilliant.

This season is the first time that I have rooted for Real Madrid and it is only because Carlo is their coach. His substitutions yesterday were brilliant. Bring on the shite!

Brendan McLaughlin
68 Posted 06/05/2022 at 00:44:46

Danny O

Never ever signed up with a company with a get out clause in tne contract. Indeed if I had felt the need for one...I would not have signed on in the first place.

How did that work in the army?

😊

Eddie Ng
69 Posted 06/05/2022 at 02:04:05
Dave @15 in addition to DCL and Keane, don't forget how he handled Pickford, where we still greatly benefitted until last week. Also, with Carlo still here, surely James and Digne (two players who made most assists last season) would not leave. So, I fully agree that while he might not get us into top 4 or even top 6, but we certainly would not be involved in a relegation dogfight with him. Given the circumstance, I would not blame him a bit on his decision to join RM. Good luck Carlo in Paris and PLEASE DON'T BOTTLE IT.
Kieran Kinsella
70 Posted 06/05/2022 at 02:24:20
I don't know how Carlo would have done this year but if nothing else I'd say better than Rafa. Richarlison publicly spoke out after he left saying how his treatment of players disrupted the dressing room mood. I think his attitude coupled with fan skepticism maginified our problems and accelerated our decline.
Jerome Shields
71 Posted 06/05/2022 at 04:38:20
Kieran #70,

They tried it on even with Ancelotti, as they have done with every manager. The squad, in the main – with support at Finch Farm – did not want to play in Europe.

Not prepared to put in the 'work and effort' as Ancelotti publicly said at the time. Richarlison’s comments just confirmed the attitude that existed. If Ancelotti had have tried to change things, like Benitez did during the October International break, he would have had to deal with the same resistance as Benitez did. Bear in mind, this was necessary change and still is.

Ancelotti was offered European football at Real Madrid, plus he got a insight into the lack of Summer transfer money available. It was a no-brainer where he would go.

I also believe he is an Evertonian. It was not the fans who drove him out. I will be supporting Ancelotti in the final.

Danny O’Neill
72 Posted 06/05/2022 at 06:28:45
Touche Brendan!

I'll give a response a go. My get out clause is my notice period - which is the same as the company's to me. That's written in black and white on my contract and works both ways. Okay, in the Army it was more restrictive, 12 months notice actually - both ways. But you could still "sign off" under those terms or be given notice for what they now call "non-blameworthy discharge".

Obviously, you and I are not on the scale of top flight football managers and I'm sure their contracts are far more specific about the terms of how they can terminate, but I don't suspect he's done anything more than what most managers do. They know they can be fired, so why wouldn't they protect themselves?

Especially given the life expectancy of the Everton managerial position in recent years?

It wouldn't surprise me, in fact I would totally expect, that Lampard has something in his contract. I am sure it is totally normal. No-one signs a contract for life.

But I just hope that whatever happens now, we settle down and stick with the plan. I've said previously, the signs on the football side look positive in terms of what is being put in place. Let's give it a chance, even if that means it's going to be a Big Dipper ride (for those who frequented Blackpool in their childhood).

Dale Rose
73 Posted 06/05/2022 at 10:34:34
We can talk about managers and clauses as much as you like. At the end of the day we are struggling for goals. We had a goal machine in Lukaku, we sold him and relied on DCL. That's why we are in the position we are in. It doesn't seem like any of the overpaid genius managers we have hired have realised this. Totally down to the board.

As others have stated Carlo is a great manager for high quality teams, Mourhino is the same, in my opinion. As with many of the other famous names. Not many could get a tune out of this squad, I think Lampard is doing a great job, if we had got him earlier things would have been much better.

I still believe Koeman was responsible for a lot of our current woes.

I'll put my tin hat on

Mark Ryan
74 Posted 06/05/2022 at 13:38:21
Carlo, I'm an Evertonian ? no more an Evertonian than Benitez, Silva, Koeman or Allardyce.
I hope the final is a shit one and I couldn't care less who wins. I won't be watching it. 2 of Europe's Elite, still planning another breakaway league no doubt. Bollocks to both teams and to both managers. He ran out on us when he got a phonecall. Treated us like a doormat. Blue my arse !!
Jeff Spiers
75 Posted 06/05/2022 at 16:11:16
I would have thought that Ancelotti would have done a thorough investigation on the running of the club. Players and staff he was to work with. Every fan knows we were a big struggle.
Matthew Williams
76 Posted 14/05/2022 at 12:51:36
I'm sure it was lost in translation... remember folks this was the Genius who threw away a 3-0 lead in the C.L final in 2005!

Sure he's won the lot...but only with all-star teams that had shit loads of cash to splash,to me he's another fucking greedy fraud that can't hold a candle to old big 'ed himself...plus he's a boring fucker too,am so glad he went!


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