Liverpool 2 - 0 Everton

A second yellow in the first half ruined Everton's game plan, which finally crumbled with a Salah penalty gifted by Keane.  

Seamus Coleman, Andre Gomes and Dele Alli are all reported to be making good progress in their recoveries, they remain the only first-team squad members unavailable to Sean Dyche for this game, with Idrissa Gana Gueye available again after being forced out before the win over Bournemouth after sustaining a foot injury in the warm-up. 

But Dyche sticks with the team that won last time out, with Gana on the bench.

Storm Babet? Everton kicked off in bright sunshine and McNeil soon delivered a cross straight to the head of Everton's star centre-forward on a tremendous leap, and what did he do? Delivered it straight to Allison with all the goal at his mercy!

Docucore tracked Arnold back and tackled him superbly, but Liverpool were getting more of the play and Salah got in unmarked but completely fluffed his shot. Pickford then had to challenge Jota for a high ball.

A deep free-kick for a foul on Tarkowski was wasted, ending in Liverpool's first corner. It was cleared with all blue shirts defending, and just came back. But Everton got forward down the right and McNeil cleverly forced an Everton corner that turned into a rapid Liverpool counter, Diaz firing over thanks to a tremendous block by Young. The corner was headed clear. 

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Harrison was double-teamed on the right and could not cross but the Blue shirts were playing up and challenging well enough for the ball. He got the next cross in but Calvert-Lewin was the wrong side of his defender. Allison fumbled the corner before clearing to Diaz and it needed brilliant work by Onana, outnumbered by swarming reds.  

Harrison was then triple teamed and Young took out Diaz for his customary early yellow card. Mykolenko stopped Salah dead in his tracks with a fine stop. Tsimikas fouled Young cynically but of course no yellow card, and the free-kick collected by Allison to launch another counter by Mykolenko again stopped Salah.

But Tarkowski was drawn into a soft foul on Jota as he advanced into the area, for a very dangerous free-kick in the Dee. But Arnold drove it into the Everton pack. However, Liverpool came back and won another corner that was cleared. Everton were getting forward but not reaching the Liverpool area before losing possession, leading to quick Liverpool attacks. 

More brilliant work on Salah was exhibited by Mykolenko as Onana tried to catch Allison and, in response, Salah lashed a cross-shot above Pickford's bar. 

Everton were trying to press but had become a little disheartened, Liverpool using the long ball down the flanks to bypass the midfield block. Dcalvert-Lewin got time on the ball but refused to pass it. Tarkowski challenged Arnold from behind and he saw yellow, while Jota steps on  Mykolenko's foot but again, no punishment.

Mac Allister tried to take advantage of the sun, firing long distance at Pickford. Doucore got time on the ball and he too failed to pass it before being surrounded. 

Diaz tried to get around Young but Young's tackle caught his ankle and off he went on a second yellow. The free-kick went for a corner, and that was cleared behind for another corner. Arnold tried a volley that flew just over the bar. 

At the other end, McNeil did very well to fashion space for a shot that was deflected just over but the corner was gathered by Allison and Liverpool's break had to be stalled. Arnold fired a sharp cross right through the Everton area, thankfully with no takers. 

Another Liverpool corner caused havoc, a handball claim denied by the VAR review as Everton had to withstand a lot of pressure from the side with the extra man. Calvert-Lewin headed on Pickford's goal-kick but Harrison could not keep hold, and Everton were again denied entry to the Liverpool area. 

Another Pickford boot almost fell for Calvert-Lewinn but he could not control it. Tarkowski looked to have blocked a Liverpool player for a possible penalty but that too was denied by the VAR and Everton survived the loss of a man without the loss of a goal in a reasonably well-defended first half while allowing many shooting chances to the Reds, without showing any bite up front to speak of.

Dyche went ultra-defensive in the second half with Patterson and Keane on in place of the two wide forwards, Harrison and McNeil, the second-half siege of the Everton penalty area commencing. 

Konate dragged down Onana as saw yellow. Everton got forward briefly until Konate felt an arm in his face. More Liverpool shots were blocked at the expense of a corner. The ball bobbled up and hit Keane's arm in the penalty area: no penalty. 

Onana did well to win another free-kick in the Liverpool half but Garner could not control his attempted shot. Onana blocked Diaz and got driven over the advertising boards behind the goal for his efforts. 

Everton got some respite forward but could not sustain the attack and were soon defending again. Beto replaced the largely ineffective Calvert-Lewin, while Klopp made a couple of changes after the hour-mark. 

Konate deliberately dragged back Docucoure on the break and should have seen a second yellow... but of course not, with Dyche getting a yellow card for his protestations. Nunez had a shot on target from outside the area, only Liverpool's second, that Pickford collected. 

But Liverpool were surging forward more strongly after the changes but Beto was getting involved and challenging in his own clumsy way. Tarkowski tried to clear in his direction.

Diaz tangled with Patterson in the area and Everton escaped another VAR check – quite rightly. Diaz then fired onto Keane's arm, sticking out in a very unnatural position. VAR gave it back to Paulson, who checked on the monitor, and of course gave the penalty to Liverpool.  

Salah v Pickford: Easy for Salah. No contest. Ian Woan yellow-carded as the Red Shite celebrated. 

Branthwaite headed a good Liverpool free-kick behind and, from the corner, Jota fired thankfully straight at Pickford. 

Everton finally got forward with 4 minutes left but were left stranded on the turnover, Branthwaite cleverly avoiding an own-goal with his header behind as Chermiti came on for Mykolenko.

Elliot hit a fierce shot that Pickford was equal to with a fine one-handed push onto the crossbar as 9 minutes of stoppage time were added. Everton looked for a late break but Doucouré's forward pass was never on. 

Jota dribbled in and shot into the side netting. Everton finally played the ball forward and won a late corner, but there was no-one on the end of it, Beto getting back well to tackle Salah. 

Everton rather rashly put almost everyone forward for a late corner at the end that was easily cleared and Liverpool surged forward for Salah to score a simple goal that was painful to see after such an effective defensive performance. 

Liverpool: Alisson, Van Dijk, Konate [Y:49'] (67' Matig), Diaz (81' Gomez), Szoboszlai, Mac Allister, Salah, Jota, Tsimikas (62' Nunez), Gravenberch (62' Elliot), Alexander-Arnold.

Subs not Used:  Kelleher, Endo, Scanlon, McConnell, Quansah.

Everton:   Pickford, Young [Y:18';YR:37'], Tarkowski [Y:32'], Branthwaite, Mykolenko (88' Chermiti), Onana (80' Danjuma), Garner, Doucoure, Harrison (46' Keane), McNeil (46' Patterson), Calvert-Lewin (61' Beto).

Subs not Used:  Virginia, Godfrey, Gana, Dobbin.

Reader Comments (239)

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Jeff Armstrong
1 Posted 21/10/2023 at 11:23:02
Unchanged team: Gueye on the bench.
Will Mabon
2 Posted 21/10/2023 at 11:26:38
Jeff - first good sign of the day?

Now to the set-up.

James Hughes
3 Posted 21/10/2023 at 11:36:32
Happy with that team, Young will be the weak link but Patterson would also be vulnerable.

Alan J Thompson
4 Posted 21/10/2023 at 11:42:01
Why do so many Managers seem stuck in their ways, Young before Patterson? If any club should be looking to stop the Old Mates Act when it comes to team selection then we are it. I suppose you only have to look at how many Managers go back to their old clubs to sign players which is probably the best argument for a DoF.
Jim Lloyd
5 Posted 21/10/2023 at 11:52:00
Toss of a coin I think, Alan. I thought Young played quite well against Bournemouth. Patterson gets caught out too often ( a bit like Seamus was before Moyes settled on him as full back.) He played him in a more forward role for a while before bringing him to full back.

If it looks like Young's getting the runaround, then Patterson's there to come in. Dyche might even change it to 5 at the back as an alternative, if that's the case.

I'm glad, though, he's kept the same team.

Anthony A Hughes
6 Posted 21/10/2023 at 12:10:08
Glad he's got a positive team selection there.
I'm not a fan of Dyche but fair play to him, looks like we're going to have a go.
Lee Courtliff
7 Posted 21/10/2023 at 12:11:31
I can't believe he's kept the same team as I was sure he'd bring back Gana for his 'experience'.
Come on, lads!
Christine Foster
8 Posted 21/10/2023 at 12:14:56
I hope this is a battle because we want it more. Come on you blues!
Steven Kendrew
9 Posted 21/10/2023 at 12:25:00
The way we have been playing, I'll be disappointed not to get a point here. It just feels more positive here than for a few years. We're playing well. We just need to finish more chances. COYB!!
Dave Abrahams
10 Posted 21/10/2023 at 12:27:23
You can only beat the team in front of you, I think we can win today but it’s got to be said we are playing Liverpool not Bournemouth!
Tom Bowers
11 Posted 21/10/2023 at 12:28:51
We don't have the best fullbacks but have to go with what we have got. Full backs these days are usually judged by their forward runs more often than not and then how the recover when possession is with the opposition. Young is no Spring chicken and Patterson is still a little inconsistent as is Mykolenko.

The work of Garner and McNeil in covering is vital to Everton's defensive set up so let's hope it is solid today.

Ernie Baywood
12 Posted 21/10/2023 at 13:08:45
That was a disaster waiting to happen.

Didn't even need to wait very long.

Ernie Baywood
13 Posted 21/10/2023 at 13:10:04
First sub should be Garner's boots.
Alex Gray
14 Posted 21/10/2023 at 13:11:27
Hopefully the last we see of Ashley Young. He can't keep up.
Shaun McGough
15 Posted 21/10/2023 at 13:23:46
Young booked almost every game first half. Liverpool targeted him.

There's a reason why no one else wanted him and Villa didn't give him a new contract. I bit my tounge since.

Absolute weak link Patterson must be so poor in training but Young gave the ref an easy decision. Weak link and past it. Hang on, boys, and dig in.

Tony Abrahams
16 Posted 21/10/2023 at 13:25:30
If I was the Everton manager now, I'd be bringing Beto on for Garner or Harrison. Probably Harrison, I'd play the nuisance that is Doucoure on the side of snide little Greek, who gets away with it all the time.

I'd get seven men behind the ball and keep two players up, which means that Liverpool will either take a chance and only play with two defenders or lose the extra man, because they will need to keep three back.

They have only really troubled us with the fast counter attack, or when we are careless with the final pass, so play deep and keep two players up to give them something to think about

Ernie Baywood
17 Posted 21/10/2023 at 13:26:03
They look shaky in defence. With 11 men I'd have fancied us to get a goal. Will be a lot harder now.

Defensively we just are what we are. We drop in, we block, we challenge. They'll need something decent to break us down and at some point you'd think they'll get it.

In attack we're already looking like needing a mistake. Our quality with the ball at feet is very poor. Doucoure is working hard but jeez he's terrible technically.

Corners have been terrible. What happened to the corners we were giving everyone a problem with? Hang it to the far post 10 yards out. We're just gifting it to Allison in spots where he just has to come for it.

Ashley Young isn't even worth talking about. First yellow was soft considering what Tsimikas got away with. But once he's on a yellow he was in all sorts of trouble... and you could absolutely see it coming.

Alan J Thompson
18 Posted 21/10/2023 at 13:30:00
We seem so unorganized, when they break, there are half a dozen and all seem to know where to position themselves while when we break nobody seems to help or want to know the man in possession. We even had a corner which they broke from while most of our players just stood and watched.

As for the refereeing, he rightly booked Young the first time but for the second he barely touched the player which was similar to Tarkowski's booking but Tsimikas committed fouls three times that were worse than either of our yellow cards and gets nothing.

If we are going to get anything from this, we have, again, to get more men forward when we attack, and show some sort of know-how or plan but my money would be on Dyche defending the draw.

Sean Mitchell
19 Posted 21/10/2023 at 13:35:58
On comes Keane. He'll save us.
Brian Wilkinson
20 Posted 21/10/2023 at 13:36:20
No issue with the Young yellows, but when their left back did an almost identical tackle to Young's first, and gets away without a yellow, then commits a further two fouls and still no yellow, then you know Klopp's rant the other week about officials and the VAR has worked a treat.

Do not be surprised if we hold out for 70 minutes before the official sees fit to send another of our players off.

Free hit now for us, anything is a bonus.

Si Cooper
21 Posted 21/10/2023 at 13:38:54
In work so not seen first half? Ashley Young’s aging legs a factor in his sending off.
Not a fan of just trying to cling on for 50 odd minutes so hopefully some are still instructed to look for any chance to counter attack.
Alex Gray
22 Posted 21/10/2023 at 14:04:46
Michael keane. As per usual.
Pete Hughes
23 Posted 21/10/2023 at 14:05:24
Mr Liability strikes again!
Si Cooper
24 Posted 21/10/2023 at 14:06:51
Two points on the penalty.. did he really need to get involved and why the fuck was his arm out the way it was???l
Anthony Jones
25 Posted 21/10/2023 at 14:07:43
We signed Ashley Young.

They signed Mac Allister.

And they still needed the referee to win it.

Si Cooper
26 Posted 21/10/2023 at 14:18:36
Brian (20),

So you do have issues with Young getting 2 yellows because the ref isn't being consistent. It's not really about what we think merits a card, it's about the ref applying their interpretation evenly.

James Hughes
27 Posted 21/10/2023 at 14:28:04
I don't care what others say, we have played well and been done as usaul by the ref
Pete Hughes
28 Posted 21/10/2023 at 14:30:25
Defended well yes, that's about it really?
Michael Kenrick
29 Posted 21/10/2023 at 14:32:58
Really sickened by that.

Young is a fucking idiot.
Keane is a fucking idiot.

And I blame fucking Calvert-Lewin for squandering the easiest chance of the game.

Bitter? You bet.

Neil Tyrrell
30 Posted 21/10/2023 at 14:33:00
Branthwaite, Tarkowski and Mykolenko all terrific.

Undone by Young and Keane.

Jeff Armstrong
31 Posted 21/10/2023 at 14:35:23
Neil 31
undone by bent officials too.
Allen Rodgers
32 Posted 21/10/2023 at 14:37:41
As usual no luck at all at Mordor.

Not helped by Calamity Keane.

Tony Everan
33 Posted 21/10/2023 at 14:38:15
If it wasn't for totally corrupt and biased refereeing ,this game finishes a draw. I mean what the fuck is going on here? Talk about playing against 12 men but this is taking the piss. It just can't be this in your face and be accepted as a genuine mistake. It was nothing of the sort.

Too disgusted to even think about the game or any failings of our players as they battled well. They would have ground out a result if it had been a fair game with the same rules applied to both sides, but shamefully it wasn't.

Dean Williams
34 Posted 21/10/2023 at 14:38:54
Change Dyche now for Potter, or we will regret it come the end of the season.
Ernie Baywood
35 Posted 21/10/2023 at 14:42:23
I can't argue with the effort. I can't argue with the pressing in the first half.

But you can't play football without actually playing football. You have to control and pass the football even just a few times in a game. We don't, or can't. It goes beyond it being a tough game, it's just careless. McNeil can do it, but he was sacrificed early. A decision I wouldn't have made.

Most disappointing was that at 1-0 down we didn't have any kind of idea of how we might get something out of a game we weren't really in. It took us to the 90th minute to figure out that when the ball gets to Pickford you immediately get two or three forward and setup for a knock down. We were not playing through Liverpool.

On the rare occasions we had the ball in their half, there wasn't the basic common sense to try to look after it and give the midfielders a chance to join in. We just belted it away.

Not exactly the game to judge where we're at. But I think there were issues there that have been consistent throughout this season.

Keane will cop loads on here. He shouldn't have had his arm out. But the selection of Young was the issue that resulted in him being there. It has continued to be unfathomable.

To be honest, I was shocked they didn't get the penalty a minute or so before the handball.

Alan J Thompson
36 Posted 21/10/2023 at 14:43:56
I'll put that down partly to VAR bullshit and mostly Dyche's inadequacies.

The only halftime substitutions he needed to make were Patterson on for either McNeil or Harrison, probably the latter, but no, he has to go all defence with no attacking outlet.

I don't entirely blame Keane for the penalty, as neither did the Ref originally and what was he watching that he needed a second look, but why did he have his arm as far forward as he did?

But we were never going to offer any attacking threat after those subs and Beto for DCL seemed to be because it was the hour mark while there seemed little point in Chermiti and Danjuma as there was no way to get anything going other than a long hoof.

And I look forward to Herr Klopp asking why one of his players wasn't sent off for a second yellow but hypocrites are what they are.

Tommy Coleman
37 Posted 21/10/2023 at 14:44:14
Add that Ref performance to the long history of incompetent biased refs in favour for The Redshite vs Everton.

They created nothing. Why are the Redshite celebrating? They didn't win anything, they were gifted the result.

Bob Parrington
38 Posted 21/10/2023 at 14:44:58
Corrupt referee and VAR who does not understand the rules. They should be ashamed of themselves in the result of this well-fought match.

Shame on you! Shame on you!

Phil Smith
39 Posted 21/10/2023 at 14:46:14
Lost that game due to one man. Truly awful performance from a clearly biased ref.

Dean, no lad, just no.

Christine Foster
40 Posted 21/10/2023 at 14:46:21
As poor a referee I have seen a long time, everything went Liverpool's way, Konate should have had a second yellow, penalty awarded by referee.

It wasn't a game to watch, Young is not good enough to start Premier League games, the split-second lag in his timing is so evident in all he does.

Two self-inflicted stuff-ups by the two most experienced players. We didn't deserve that result.

Andrew Keatley
41 Posted 21/10/2023 at 14:47:06
Obviously the bent/inept refereeing will take the headlines. How the Premier League will respond will be interesting to see, as the decision to send off Young but then not Konate is indefensible.

As for the penalty overturn, why Michael Keane has his arm out like that is pretty hard to comprehend – but it looked to me that it brushed off his knee first before hitting his hand – but nobody seems to have mentioned it so perhaps I'm wrong.

Some positive individual performances. I thought Doucouré and Onana were very good, and Mykolenko had one of his best games for us and kept Salah completely quiet. But I thought Garner was poor with the ball, and Harrison and McNeil were very isolated.

Probably harsh to say this now but what Chermiti offers at this stage is very hard to see. The breakaway for the second goal came about because he gets the ball stuck under his feet – and it looked like he'd never seen a football before. He also ran so far offside a couple of times it was embarrassing.

Chris Leyland
42 Posted 21/10/2023 at 14:47:16
Dean, stop this obsession with Potter as he is not and never has been the answer. What are you expecting him to achieve?

His 31% win rate at Brighton or the complete mess he made of his big break at Chelsea?

Barry Rathbone
43 Posted 21/10/2023 at 14:47:34
Not concerned at all. It's a given they do us; just glad I was wrong about the 4-goal deficit.

Put it behind us as some kind of weird imaginary fixture and move on. Without oil money, the gap is too big, losing to title contenders is almost a guarantee 9 times out of 10.

Bollocks to 'em.

Clive Rogers
44 Posted 21/10/2023 at 14:49:06
The mistakes from Young and Keane were always going to happen. They are both liabilities which we all know.

Young has been poor defensively every game. Calvert-Lewin doesn't lead the line well in games like this, he was anonymous and Garner had a bit of an off-day.

Otherwise, we defended quite well but the referee gave them everything, us nothing.

Jack Convery
45 Posted 21/10/2023 at 14:52:26
The worst performance was by Pawson. Under orders no doubt after the VAR furore they created. The next time we play them and we are safe, I'd kick the shit out of them.

To say I hate them is an understatement. Loath, Despise, Detest, Abhor – there's not enough words to describe my feelings about them.

Ian Edwards
46 Posted 21/10/2023 at 14:53:22
I have no complaints with the Young sending off. He was silly to make that challenge on a yellow.

In the present climate, the handball was always going to be a penalty as the arm was outstretched in an unnatural position.

My anger is directed to the Ref for failing to book Tsimikas and not sending off Konate.

I have even more anger towards Dyche. The half-time subs killed us. He should have just brought Patterson on for Harrison. We looked comfortable even with 10 men up to half-time but the subs just killed any attacking impetus we had as it left us defending with an isolated forward. There was no way we would hang on for 45 minutes.

Ed Prytherch
47 Posted 21/10/2023 at 14:53:57
Dyche was not to blame for this, it was Young and Keane. The decisions for the yellow cards against Young and the penalty against Keane were correct.

The ref was crap but it was those two players who lost the game for us.

Frank Sheppard
48 Posted 21/10/2023 at 14:54:37
We played well against 12 men… and inevitable that Keane would score an own goal or something similar.
Lee Courtliff
49 Posted 21/10/2023 at 14:56:17
Young was foolish and Michael Keane was Michael bloody Keane!!

The second goal was irrelevant as, if it wasn't for the penalty, we wouldn't have been caught on the counter.

At least Patterson will definitely play next week, small mercies and that.

Christy Ring
50 Posted 21/10/2023 at 14:56:26
It should have been 10 v 10 at 0-0 and would have been a different game. A total disgrace, will Howard Webb apologise to Everton? Not a chance.

Ref was a disgrace, you can blame Dyche, Young and Keane's handball, but for me Pawson was the deciding factor.

I said it at half-time: Harrison for Patterson made sense, but taking off McNeil was the wrong option.

Ernie Baywood
51 Posted 21/10/2023 at 15:00:42
Andrew, we've got half a team like that. While we play with players like Doucoure, you really can't expect much else. The guy works hard but he's all right foot and he's got two left feet. And he's pretty much a Number 10!

At some point, we'll have to acknowledge that we lack quality so badly that we're going to have to play some players who can control a ball over some of our more limited triers. Garner (who had a particularly poor game today) in for the limited Gueye is a start.

Young and Mykolenko (who was defensively great today) also need to go. You can't play with fullbacks who offer nothing when they touch the ball. And Doucoure really needs to go. His occasional goals don't justify the dysfunctional element he brings to the team.

I agree with the sentiment that Konate should have been sent off. It was pretty obvious. And that Tsimikas should have been booked after his third, pretty blatant, foul in 20 minutes. But I can't defend Young or Keane except to say that they don't select themselves.

I wasn't surprised they were exposed. Was anyone? Besides Dyche.

Kim Vivian
52 Posted 21/10/2023 at 15:02:09
I agree with Ian Edwards at 47 today. Young a cynical foul and then a reckless foul. With no Harrison or McNeil, Calvert-Lewin was always going to have a lonely 45 minutes and Beto a lost cause with no service from the wide men.

I thought Doucourie worked hard and did some good stuff, but he is amazingly wasteful with the ball at times.

Onana looks considerably more mature than his years. He and Branthwaite will be much sought-after assets in due course.

Ajay Gopal
53 Posted 21/10/2023 at 15:05:02
I have watched some scandalous refereeing decisions but this performance by Mr Pawson is probably the most cowardly and corrupt I have watched.

The first Young yellow was unbelievable, and while the second was definitely a foul, it was never a yellow. Down to 10 men and when Pawson shat out of giving Konate a second yellow, it was game over.

The Keane penalty, if you see it in real time, I don't think anyone would have gotten their hand out of the way. I don't want to talk about anything else about the game at the moment. Just sickening….

Tony Abrahams
54 Posted 21/10/2023 at 15:08:10
I don't rate Michael Keane, but to say he gifted Liverpool a penalty just doesn't sit well with me, Michael.

The ref wasn't far away and knew that it wasn't intentional, but football is continually reinventing itself. Even though it was quite natural for a referee of Pawson's experience to initially wave the penalty away, football has got another layer now to help these refs when they get their initial decision wrong!

I think this is something that a few of us predicted, right after Spurs beat Liverpool, in a game full of controversy, that never suited our opponents today.

We are getting better but lacked quality in key moments, and were also very naive, with a lack of defensive discipline or is it a lack of collective defensive awareness, which Liverpool constantly exploited and resulted in them scoring a second goal.

Stuart Sharp
55 Posted 21/10/2023 at 15:09:01
Think we can mostly (all?) agree about the ref, it really boils my blood, but bringing off both McNeil and Harrison was bizarre.

Within 5 mins of the 2nd half, it was obvious we had no outball. That strategy so rarely works.

Tom Bowers
56 Posted 21/10/2023 at 15:09:08
Yep, have to agree we only have half a team and the rest are just so average but at what they cost it's hardly surprising.

Always in with a shout in these games but up in smoke thanks to stupidity of Young who should know better.

Always hard to see Everton holding out once they lost a player – especially with that prick Salah on their team. What a bargain he turned out to be after Chelsea rejected him.

Back to the drawing board but at least Young will miss the next game.

Jerome Shields
57 Posted 21/10/2023 at 15:11:46
Christy #51

I agree, taking off McNeil was a mistake. Patterson .on for Harrison was right. Actually, Patterson should have played rather than Young. Young was playing at a rate he was not going to keep up to.

Dyche just panicked, always needed to keep a threat going forward which would have helped Beto when he came on. Calvert-Lewin missed a great chance, but positionally other than that was off the play. The slower Van Dijk was able to get in front of him getting the ball.

Danny Baily
58 Posted 21/10/2023 at 15:12:06
Up until their second, I thought we might nick something. To still be in it after 90 minutes, especially after going down to 10, is something.

But we do need another 8 wins, and with each game that passes it gets harder to see where they are going to come from.

West Ham away might be just the right match for us. Sit back and hit them on the counter.

Clive Rogers
59 Posted 21/10/2023 at 15:12:17
Ernie, 52,

“Doucoure is all right foot and has two left feet.”

So he's a mutant with three feet? No wonder we paid so much for him.

Ben King
60 Posted 21/10/2023 at 15:12:21
We hate this fixture for numerous reasons but right up there is the failure of officials to referee the game fairly and correctly.

Gordon should have had one or two penalties two seasons ago at Anfield and today should it have been 10 v 10.

However, this run of awful and biased refereeing continues unsanctioned, season after season after season. It's not fun, it's not fair and it makes for a stain on the Premier League.

Except no one gives a damn because it's only shitty little Everton who are bitter and crap.

We need a PR department and need to demand an explanation and apology!!!

Dave Abrahams
61 Posted 21/10/2023 at 15:17:30
I suppose we should be used to these referees' poor decisions but they still hurt and influence the results of so many games, especially derby games.

When I saw McNeil was being substituted, I was surprised. When I saw who was coming on in his place, I expected the worst…

Why was Keane's hand in such a forward position? Most sensible defenders put their arms behind their backs on these occasions but Keane is fuckin' Keane, not as in eager but stupid, and we've still got him for this season and next.

Calvert-Lewin was poor today, Mylenko possibly our best player today, was substituted while the three attacking players brought on never made a blind bit of difference.

We might have got a draw with 11 players, Liverpool were not creating any chances and Pickford only had one worthwhile shot to save all afternoon.

Klopp was delighted to swap the player who should have walked immediately he realised he was staying on, courtesy of another very poor referee — Poorson.

Chris Gould
62 Posted 21/10/2023 at 15:20:56
Ref was dreadful, and it was entirely predictable that that the officials and the VAR would try to 'even" things up for them at the expense of us after their Spurs match.

What bothered me was the ref initially didn't look like he was booking Young for the second yellow, but then chatted in his mic and gave the card. Who the hell is making the on-field decisions? It appeared he was told to bring out the 2nd yellow.

Gerry Western
63 Posted 21/10/2023 at 15:22:34
Appalling officiating handed this game to the Red Shite.

I'm not going to criticise Keane, he adopted a stance any defender would have taken up, as was confirmed by Jagielka and Ferdinand.

The laws of the game are totally daft in this respect. It's impossible for any defender to defend in that position if he's got to pull his arm behind his back as he sets up to defend. It's complete nonsense.

Kim Vivian
64 Posted 21/10/2023 at 15:24:28

I think what Ernie is saying is that Doucouré has a left foot at the bottom of his right leg – and I'm inclined to agree with him.

John Keating
65 Posted 21/10/2023 at 15:24:59
Tho obvious ones were the Young sending off and the Keane handball. However, in my opinion, neither changed the course of the game more than the ref's failure to send Konate off

The inconsistency of referees is becoming an embarrassment, not just between different ref's interpretation of situations, but also the same ref in the same game coming to different results.

Konate, quite correctly, gets a red. It's 10 v 10 and a totally different game. Up to then, Liverpool never looked like scoring from open play.

Jim Bennings
66 Posted 21/10/2023 at 15:29:08
I'm glad it's out the way this game, as I say these derbies mean nothing now really.

It's a one-dimensional game and it's a terrible game for neutrals with usually only one outcome..

Dyche threw the game at half-time with those bizarre substitutions, you can't expect to play the best part of an hour just kicking the ball out of your own penalty area.

It's nothing new in the Merseyside derby ,though, so I can't just point the finger at Dyche, this has been Everton for 20 years in derbies.

Bill Gall
67 Posted 21/10/2023 at 15:29:52
Well this is what you expect at Mordor.

Young has proved over the last few games if he can play for over 10 minutes without getting booked, he will be okay; unfortunately, he can't.

There will now be more calls for Dyche to be sacked but who will replace him? Potter's name keeps getting mentioned but didn't it take him about 5 seasons before he finally got the type of players that started to make Brighton successful?

The problem is, you play with what you have, and who can get more out of what we have than Dyche?

There is a mid-table team there and I don't believe that Dyche is the answer but then who is?

Defence can keep you the points but you need goals to earn them, and despite bringing in forwards in the transfer window, we can't score.

Michael Connelly
68 Posted 21/10/2023 at 15:32:13
Young was foolish; no need to dive in when he did.

Michael Keane for some reason can't keep his hands by his side in the box. How many penalties has he conceded at this point? Hopefully there is no more than this season left on his contract.

Aside from that, made them ordinary for that game, and we don't look like a side that will be in a relegation battle.

Onana looked like a proper player today. Probably the first time I have thought that since he arrived. Just can't shoot.

Barry Hesketh
69 Posted 21/10/2023 at 15:39:21
We could line up with Manchester City's best eleven in our team, but as soon as we go across the park, the borderline decisions will always go in the favour of the home side, it's been like that for almost as long as I've been watching Everton.

I stopped watching the derby at their place around 2012 and only attend the Goodison derby, because I've paid for the privilege. A sporting contest it is not and hasn't been for ages.

Why so many believed today would turn out differently to most of the past encounters baffles me, not just the loss, but the manner of the loss, is almost written in the script, regardless of how Everton perform or the tactics that they employ.

It's out of the way now, and hopefully our paths won't cross in any of the cup competitions. Concentrate on West Ham next week and put this defeat in the bin.

Jim Bennings
70 Posted 21/10/2023 at 15:42:18

This team probably would be mid-table, I agree, if we had Moyes and Irvine still here. Sadly, Dyche and these coaches do seem tactically very limited.

You'll get a certain amount of points, enough to just about avoid the drop, I think, and playing in a certain type of way, but I doubt it'll ever be enough to satisfy the punters.

Tommy Coleman
71 Posted 21/10/2023 at 15:43:12
While it was a penalty in today's rules, the rules are wrong.

When you run, your arms are in front of you. Having your arms behind your back is not a natural position.

David Hallwood
72 Posted 21/10/2023 at 15:46:32
John Keating (#66),

"The inconsistency of referees is becoming an embarrassment,"

Really? I think they're cleverly corrupt. I'd love to see a split screen for Young's 1st yellow and Tsimikas's non-yellow against Harrison, and Young's 2nd yellow and Konaté's non-yellow. IMO they referee the game 50/50 until it comes to business end, where they'll claim swings and roundabouts; except the big 6 get all the joyrides.

Now you could argue, he wasn't going to give them a stonewall penalty, but here's the conspiracy theory. He did that in the knowledge that it would be sent upstairs and the decision would be overturned, but it goes in his plus column that he isn't a corrupt referee.

I'm sick of it and it's beginning to turn me off the game. The FA has become the new Politburo; we never make mistakes, and this will carry on til there's collective action by the clubs.

Tony Abrahams
73 Posted 21/10/2023 at 15:50:20
I don't believe there is any way Craig Pawson will be relegated next weekend, because although England's display the other week was disgraceful, this was only borderline and because it was Liverpool who were on the receiving end of some very favourable decision's then everyone should just move on!

I was arguing over the sending-off at half-time with one Red, and he said everyone in football except Everton fans would not have had an issue with the sending off. He said I was being insulting because, after he said Young had always been a crying cunt, I said he would have fitted in well playing for Liverpool.

I predicted a second-half penalty, and never received a reply after I said I thought Pawson had used common sense when he decided not to send off Kanoute.

The saddest thing about today (for me) is not the result, but the realisation that a game I used to live for (genuinely live for) is littered with corruption (if not corruption, then at least sheer incompetence).

Players now spend more time appealing for everything, and trying to gain every advantage imaginable, and also find it very easy cheating their fellow pros.

Pat Kelly
74 Posted 21/10/2023 at 15:52:56
Suicidal play by Young and the usual disastrous Keane.

The hope that Beto was going to make a difference was unfounded. And who decided to waste money on Chermiti?

We still have no one as backup when Calvert-Lewin doesn't turn up, which is quite often. We're nowhere near competing on a regular basis against any competent team.

And Dyche doesn't have the answer. Long season ahead.

Peter Moore
75 Posted 21/10/2023 at 15:53:10
Game ruined by biased ref. A shambles of an officiating performance. Credit to our players and management team.
Shame on Craig Pawson.

It was a good contest until the sending off. For him to then not send Konate off was absolutely disgusting and obvious bias.

I was having banter messages with a Red on the phone during the game. As the second half progressed, he was getting nervous and saying this will be nil nil. I said, fear not, this Homer ref will give you a soft pen soon. Sadly I was right.

What chance do we have when the match is not officiated in an even-handed way? UTFT. FTRS.

Colin Glassar
76 Posted 21/10/2023 at 15:54:04
Proud of the lads today. When we go to Mordor we know we are up against the unholy XIII, ie rs, crowd and officials.

I said to my lad before the game that we'd lose at least one player. It's almost scripted the shithousery, cowardly displays by incompetent, bent refs.

But there's now a team in the making so let's not be too disheartened.

Neil Lawson
77 Posted 21/10/2023 at 15:57:34
I have been working so unable to watch and unable to follow from half time.

I was utterly dumbfounded when I discovered the changes made at half-time. What support I had for Dyche evaporated instantly. Dinosaur thinking and tactics.

It's not about the players he put on the pitch (whatever your views… oh, Keane maybe). It's all about a witless manager who thinks that the tactics he was about to employ could lead to anything but defeat. Shameful.

Tony Abrahams
78 Posted 21/10/2023 at 15:58:41
Jim @71,

My only gripe with Dyche is that I sometimes don't feel he is pragmatic enough in the sense that his Everton teams don't often defend collectively (the whole team).

I can still remember Liverpool going down to ten men in the first half during one Merseyside derby at Anfield, although the tactics of Moyes never got us far that day, because we still ended up losing the game.

Everton are definitely improving, imo, although we still need a few better players to compete against the best teams.

Barry H, I'd love our paths to cross in one of the cups this season, mate, but only if we can get a home draw. Beat Burnley and get Liverpool, that'd do me!

Jimmy Carr
79 Posted 21/10/2023 at 16:02:34
I don't think Dyche covered himself in glory today. Should have subbed Young after the first yellow and Michael Keane is unfortunately a liability. Perhaps he'll realise this now.

However, those calling for Patterson should think twice, he looks defensively weak and as prone to a mistake as Keane. Dyche obviously prefers Young as the lesser of two evils. Maybe Patterson will improve with more coaching.

Graham Potter for manager? He looked like he couldn't tie his shoelaces at Chelsea. Imagine him in the ongoing crisis of Everton? No thanks.

Today is one game, same old, same old in the derby. Dodgy ref, seen it all before. Keep the faith.

Barry Hesketh
80 Posted 21/10/2023 at 16:06:18
Tony @79,

It's true that the other lot had a man disadvantage in a home derby game in March 2005, but when Baros was red-carded in the 77th minute, they were already two goals up, and Cahill pulled one back eight minutes from time, but the game ended with Everton losing.

I assume that's the game that you are talking about.

Joe McMahon
81 Posted 21/10/2023 at 16:06:46
I decided to go to the Lakes today and avoid the derby, as we all know the outcome. I know nothing of the match, and I'll catch up when I get back home.

From what I've read, Young started again! And they get yet another penalty and another Everton Red at Anfield. Some things will never change!

Tony Everan
82 Posted 21/10/2023 at 16:07:01
”At 0-0, no one knew how they had 11 on the pitch. Their manager knew, because he took him off.”

Sean Dyche on Pawson's game-changing decision not to give Konate a certain second yellow.

Clive Rogers
83 Posted 21/10/2023 at 16:07:54
Masterful tactics today.

Take both wingers off, then end up with two centre forwards with no crosses to feed off.

Brian Wilkinson
84 Posted 21/10/2023 at 16:15:54
Young's second tackle was rash, cannot disagree with other posters.

But take a moment to reflect the other option: do not make a tackle, player left free to square the ball and they score from it, how many would be screaming at Young for not trying to make that tackle? it was a stupid tackle with being on a yellow but a tackle he had to make.

They were targeting Young's side with balls played there and over the top. As soon as he picked that first yellow card up, Dyche should have reacted quicker and brought Patterson on for Young, he didn't and from that moment they targeted Young as a weakness.

How Tsimakas got away with not getting a yellow a few minutes later, after Young's first yellow, for an almost similar offence was a joke. Then to commit a further 2 fouls, and still no yellow shows the bias of a corrupt official, summed up by not giving Konate a second yellow.

Klopp could not sub him off quick enough, he knows they got away with that one, but I doubt he will be screaming to the rafters about it, because normal service was resumed of a decision going for them. There will be no shouts of a replay or calling officials out by him.

I'm not defending Young, by the way, just highlighting what most other posters were thinking about our weakness.

Mark Taylor
85 Posted 21/10/2023 at 16:17:13
While Tsimikas should definitely have had a yellow, I don't think Konate's foul was as clear a yellow as Young's and for sure, it would be hard to complain about the latter's second yellow/red.

I have a feeling that might sometimes have been only a foul but you sure shouldn't give a ref the chance to produce a card. Klopp was smarter than Dyche in hooking Konate. Next foul would have seen him off. Dyche must seriously not rate Patterson. Hard to see the point of him being here.

I also can't see how a ref could not award a penalty for their first. Just before the ball came in, Keane moved his arm out, stretched it out more likely. It was a weird and crazy thing to do but we know he has that in him.

We do not have the players with enough technique to pass and hold the ball in an 11-10 game. I agree with others, Doucoure's basic technique is abysmal. To be blunt, other than Calvert-Lewin's gilt-edged chance in the first minute or two, we didn't really threaten, even with 11.

Lots of huffing and puffing but not much quality. Best that can be said is that the defence did okay, especially the left side. Onana was a bit livelier too, though Garner had an off day.

P Ron Wells
86 Posted 21/10/2023 at 16:22:03
The VAR is a liability for a game like football and ultimately destructive of it.

It removes the decision-making process from the pitch and puts it in the hands of unaccountable deciders. In other words, from the visible sphere to the unseen back room "referee whisperers".

That this is technology is no justification, as manipulation of criteria is possible with angles, lines etc. Even worse, it opens decisions to subjectivity, as the invisible deciders have their preferences and inclinations. Their presuppositions may well be unconscious, formed by media conditioning.

Gerrymandering is a greater possibility than when officials on the pitch have to make tough decisions in front of a crowd, and bear the consequences. They may make wrong decisions, as errare humanum est, but for me mistakes are preferable to the backroom manipulation which seems to go on endlessly.

After watching today's game, and having been a Blue for over 50 years, I really wonder whether watching football with the VAR is worth its while any more. The system cannot be beaten and the system is ultimately controlled by financial interests. I am not sure I like the ethos of this game any more.

Pete Neilson
87 Posted 21/10/2023 at 16:24:00
There's no way Pawson was initially going to send Young off until he was told to in his ear piece. It was blatantly obvious from the away end.

VAR is only supposed to be used for goals; penalty decisions; direct red-card incidents; and mistaken identity. To compound this, Konate should clearly have been sent off.

Ineptitude or corruption. Shocking match-changing decisions by the ref.

Tony Waring
88 Posted 21/10/2023 at 16:26:44
You can't blame Keane for the penalty. It's impossible to play football – or any other sport – with your arms straight down your side. You have to maintain your balance. He was just unlucky.
Charles Brewer
89 Posted 21/10/2023 at 16:27:39
Brian, I think that's a reasonable comment regarding Young's second yellow: it was a dangerous position and he had to commit and was fractionally late although did no harm and clearly was not trying to injure the player. As such the penalty should have been a free kick, possibly with a warning that any further fouls might result in a second yellow.

Certainly it was nothing like as egregious as Kounate's second serious offence which was deliberate and designed to frustrate an attack where the defending team was in disorder, which these days rightly invariably brings a yellow.

As you rightly say, Klopp knew he'd dodged a bullet and got his man off asap. Which does rather go to show the difference in intelligence between Klopp and Dyche.

And the trouble with Keane is that he is serially "unlucky". Dyche should follow Napoleon's maxim that he didn't want good generals as much as lucky ones.

Dale Self
90 Posted 21/10/2023 at 16:31:30
Overall we showed up, stopped them from using the deep middle and covered the wings well enough until the red. Young’s card was not justified for the 15th minute of a derby when the same offence by Tsimikas in a more dangerous position went unpunished. Aside from that we did not crumble, quite the opposite.

The rotation to cover the shite attack was the silver lining. Even at 10 men they did not get the shots they wanted. The penalty bailed them out imo. Following the penalty we broke through a couple of times and threatened goal. There was more of a determination even though options were limited as they tired.

Now that Patterson knows he is needed and since Harrison was taken off, we can settle into this system without Young. Finding places to get Danjuma and Beto involved earlier in the season is necessary. The rotation isn’t there yet but a combination between Doucoure, Danjuma, Beto and Chermiti should yield some final third threat given match time together. Fuck the Red Shite

Jerome Shields
91 Posted 21/10/2023 at 16:42:25

You see Defenders every week play with their arms down by their sides.It is also obvious that they make a conscious effort to do so particularly when blocking in the Penalty area. Keane has been always been lacks defending, hence so many errors.So much so that their was a collective anxiety amongst Evertonians when he come on as a Sub.

RIP Bobby Charlton..

Will Mabon
92 Posted 21/10/2023 at 16:59:25
Disappointing - but we didn't get battered.

Wasn't overly impressed by the RS. Nor the refereeing. Still not enamoured by the subs policy.

The rest is covered above.

Rob Dolby
93 Posted 21/10/2023 at 17:06:12

When you run where do you put your arms?

It was a soft pen the likes of which we don't get but the big boys get every week.

I like Keane but the lad must smash a mirror every time he puts a blue shirt on.

The game itself was a non event and far from an even sporting contest. The thrill has gone. Never has the beautiful game been more rigged than it is now.

Anthony Dove
94 Posted 21/10/2023 at 17:06:22
Poor refereeing. We played well until the sending-off and were having a proper go unlike the Arsenal game. Dyche didn't need to take both McNeil and Harrison off. Only Harrison who was poor anyway.

Down to 10 men, we couldn't put two passes together so the ball just went back to the shite. After half-time, the end result was never really in doubt.

It's early days but I don't see anything in Beto or Chermiti, and very little in Harrison or Danjuma.

Chris Leyland
95 Posted 21/10/2023 at 17:06:32
Pete Nielsen, you are cordgrass. Maybe we should demand the audio of what was said to Pawson?
Mark Murphy
96 Posted 21/10/2023 at 17:06:48
Pete @91 it wasn’t his earpiece it was that Cnut Terence Trent fcuking Darby! Another red ref a la slippy starfish!
George Cumiskey
97 Posted 21/10/2023 at 17:07:48
Man City player just got sent off for exactly the same foul as Konate's 🤬
Dave Abrahams
98 Posted 21/10/2023 at 17:19:54
Like a lot of fans today I'm getting totally disillusioned by today's football, it stinks, results are manufactured by referees either on the field or miles away by stand-in referees.

Christy Ring
99 Posted 21/10/2023 at 17:20:48
Charlie #93,

In all fairness, how you can say the difference in intelligence between Klopp and Dyche is because Klopp took Konate off?

He knew he got away with one, he couldn't wait to get him off. Dyche didn't get that chance. Two fouls, two yellows, ref bottled it.

Pete Neilson
100 Posted 21/10/2023 at 17:30:25
Maybe Dyche should start crying to the media that we need a replay. There's method in the madness of Klopp and Co. constantly complaining. Eventually the officials wilt under their never-ending barrage of whingeing.

Their whole ground reverberates with it, an air of entitlement, expectation and demand for positive penalty decisions. Unfortunately, it works. Never has the game been so bent.

Paul Birmingham
101 Posted 21/10/2023 at 17:33:43
Dave, I'm with your view of the game, 100%.

Bobby Charlton, RIP, exceptional footballer and superb shot, and thanks for the memories and some scorchers you scored v the RS.

I had reservations, earlier this week, when I saw the match referee, but this fixture is the easiest nap, to bet on when, and how many Everton players will be booked, sent off and when the RS, will get a penalty.

It’s like changing of the seasons, it’s nailed on to happen.

Pawson isn’t for for the EPL, nor any top level football, total cack house, referee.

The game is fekked, seriously it’s going down the drain.

Also 8 p.m. games on a Saturday night, the media is dictating the game now, there’s no consideration of supporters, and tif, it’s becoming a nonsense, in terms of the media’s grip on football.

I don’t mind losing a game, but when the game is changed by a serial incompetent referee, then, the club, must lodge a formal complaint.

The RS, have been moaning the last month since the Spurs game. Today The Satanic Rites conspired yet again.

Today Tsimikas and Kanoute should have been off the park.

Mr Ed, is so far, very quiet tonight. So to bounce back for West Ham, and I expect Everton, to win.

Simon Dalzell
102 Posted 21/10/2023 at 17:40:37
Young should not have started, and definitely taken off after first yellow.

Dyche Out!

Christy Ring
103 Posted 21/10/2023 at 17:48:45
Coleman is back on grass, can’t come back quickly enough, because in my opinion, Patterson is okay going forward, but even after coming on today, his defensive game is poor, that’s probably why Dyche is reluctant to start him. I thought Onana was excellent today, as was our two centre backs and Mykolenko, but Garner had a poor game and Harrison kept losing the ball, that’s how Young got his first yellow.
Dale Self
104 Posted 21/10/2023 at 17:51:18
That is tacky Simon, so tacky.
Phil Lewis
105 Posted 21/10/2023 at 18:11:00
We deserved a draw at least, for that spirited display. The game plan proved correct. We defended intelligently apart from the sending off and the penalty, which were both unfortunate. They stretched us, but neither outplayed nor outclassed us. Neither keeper had much to do. There was no disgrace in defeat in fact there were many positives to take from the game which bode well for Everton's future and immediate survival.
Clive Rogers
106 Posted 21/10/2023 at 18:16:41
Brian, 86, the problem with Young is that he is tackling from a distance away from the man because he's not got the pace to get near enough.

He's lunging from 2 yards away in desperation and often the ball has gone when his tackle lands. It's happening every game.

Clive Rogers
107 Posted 21/10/2023 at 18:20:43
We didn’t play well at all. 23% possession and 1 shot on target compared to 26 for them is awful stats (BBC) and they don’t lie.
Nick Page
108 Posted 21/10/2023 at 18:21:28
If I was Dyche, or if I was the Chairman of Everton (lol) I’d call out the refs cabal for what it is and would have done it years ago. Fuck them. What’s the worst they can do? Just put a few tapes together - it’s all there. They’ve even admitted it (like Poll, and that other tit who fancied himself). It’s been fifty filthy fucking years of rinse and repeat with these bastards, cheating their way to this and that. Can’t criticise them though cos they have the Hillsborough put. When anyone or anything is above criticism and honest debate you’ve already lost (see Middle East politics).

Kenwright out.

Bill Fairfield
109 Posted 21/10/2023 at 18:26:52
Referees and the VARs get more pathetic as time goes by. The game has become a joke.
Mal van Schaick
110 Posted 21/10/2023 at 18:29:15
Agree with Anthony #98. We were playing ok until the sending off, and we were always playing 12 men with Pawson in charge, who should have sent Konate off.

Dyche should say it straight in his interview regarding Pawson, and sit down with the head of referees and go through the recording of the game to point out Pawsons mistakes. I feel robbed again, by bias officials.

Paul Ferry
111 Posted 21/10/2023 at 18:33:03
Straight back to bed after that shower of shite. Beaten by them, beaten by Sud Afriker in the cricket, and doubtless the public shool lads will get trounced by Sud Afriker. Maupay got an assist, bless.

Not much to say is there really? Another pointless trek across the park. Trying to see the positives. Mykolenko had a good game and kept him mostly quiet; Onana did well in the first half. And ... well ... the best I can do is that their ground looked shite.

Dyche got what he deserved today. Their weak defence was there to be taken apart but we never touched it after thirty-six seconds. We needed to be on the front foot from the off and for 52 seconds it looked like we were, but then Dycheitis set in.

Just sad really, a bit numb, a touch miserable. That game touched most of the things I hate about footy today: plucky middle-of-the-road Everton, woeful officials, them winning when they were not really that good, a clown on the live forum, some disgraceful stabs at politics on the live forum.

Three points at the theatre of porn will do nicely thanks.

Danny O’Neill
112 Posted 21/10/2023 at 18:33:18
It's probably all been said.


Thought we done okay for most of the game.

Defining moments that always make a game of football.

Calvert-Lewin missing the early chance.

Ashley Young, the alleged most experienced player on the pitch losing his head when he could have stood his ground and ushered the player out of play, knowing he was already on a yellow.

One of their players not getting a yellow minutes later.

I suppose it is easy to have a go at Michael Keane. I do it enough. Other than agreeing that he should have his arm by his side, I'm not sure what he is supposed to do with a ball hit at him that close. There has just been a similar one in the Chelsea v Arsenal match. It was a penalty by the letter of the law, so no complaints.

Just don't play him and if we do, stick him up front out of harm's way.

The manager set his stall up at half time. Five at the back and backs to the wall, inviting the inevitable against the Duracell Bunnies. Dominic and then Beto cutting increasingly isolated figures up front. It wasn't a case of having no outlet, we had no supply.

Branthwaite is a star. He didn't put a foot wrong in a tough match that put pressure on the defence. I worry someone will come in for him sooner rather than later.

I save my last comment for the Referee. Forget the other officials, silent men who didn't contribute. But that Referee was outrageous. Liverpool should also have been down to 10 and Klopp knew it hence hooking their player minutes after he should have been shown a second yellow and sent off, keeping them at 11.

One rule for one, one rule for others as they say.

Absolute shithouse of a star struck referee. I've just been given an interesting stat by my equally disappointed son. In the last 36 games he has refereed a Liverpool fixture, he's given them one (yes one) yellow card that he has officiated for them.

It borders on match fixing.

Sorry. Feeling raw.

God bless Bobby Charlton. An absolute gentleman of the beautiful game of football.

West Ham next. I will see some of you there. And then onto Burnley to get one step closer to Wembley.

Danny Baily
113 Posted 21/10/2023 at 18:33:46
The penalty against and sending off for us were pretty straightforward decisions that the officials got right. It could have been a second yellow for them at 0-0, but you're not going to get those decisions at Anfield.

It can't always be a tale of woe and misery on our part. As Dyche has said, the narrative needs to change. Looking at the fixtures, we need to beat West Ham to avoid being in crisis over Christmas again.

Paul Ferry
114 Posted 21/10/2023 at 18:37:04
Branthwaite actually did do things wrong, Danny, and had a poor game. He was bailed out by was it Tarkowski (it usually is) in the second half.

Michael Kenrick
115 Posted 21/10/2023 at 18:38:04

You can't blame Keane for the penalty. It's impossible to play football – or any other sport – with your arms straight down your side. You have to maintain your balance. He was just unlucky.

I just wonder about that having watched other defenders in similar situations… It seems that, since this latest, craziest interpretation of the handball rule came in, defenders have acknowledged the imminent danger of giving away a penalty if they have their arms flailing around, and have taken to holding their arms to their sides or behind their backs.

I may be wrong but I don't think any defender with their arms in this 'unnatural' position has had a penalty awarded against them? Hence the decision the defenders take to do this with their arms when in potentially dangerous situations.

Contrast this with Michael Keane. He goes in with his arm extended in an equally unnatural position and, lo and behold, ball strikes arm. Maybe he just forgot to pull his arm in and not give the referee an obvious opportunity to give them bastards a penalty?

In the current circumstances where most defenders have to operate, I think that was a clear mistake by him, not a question of being unlucky.

Paul Greenly Jones
116 Posted 21/10/2023 at 18:38:24
Spent the day avoiding the build-up, the match itself, and the post-match dissection! The result and everything that was predicted prior to the match by us knowledgeable and down-beaten Toffees only confirms my hatred of this match and the underlying bias and corruption by the powers to be!

Having watched the highlights, and I might be looking through blue-tinted specs, but there's no denying the corruption and the media love for the Devil's Spawn and their Nordic followers!

Missus is glad it's over!!

Matt Byrne
117 Posted 21/10/2023 at 18:47:18
Try and forget it happened and have a few pints instead. A sending off and a pen, plus a non sending off for them, almost inevitable. We won't go down and they won't win the league.
Danny O’Neill
118 Posted 21/10/2023 at 18:47:46
As a member of the centre-back union, Paul, when you are under that amount of pressure, the laws of average come into play..

Branthwaite is 21 years old. Very young for a centre-back. Let's not repeat the John Stones scenario.

Yes, I agree, he was helped out by his partner Tarkowski - that's how it works and Tarkowski is one of the best covering centre-backs we've had since Jagielka.

It's happened. It's over. I can forget about them until we face them at Goodison for what could possibly be the last time.

Meanwhile I make my way to the London Stadium next week.

Off track, I had a good chat with a relative today. As I've alluded to previously, my Grandfather and David Moyes' Grandfather were brothers. I spoke to Moyes' uncle today. His family moved to Scotland (Glasgow) whereas mine moved to Liverpool. He wished me good luck. And for next week!

West Ham, then Burnley.

I don't fear playing the devil's children, but I am always glad to get it out of the way.

Jim Lloyd
119 Posted 21/10/2023 at 18:47:46
I could only get the match on radio, so was thankful for the texting between Brian Wilkinson and me. He reckoned we played well and I rate Brian's view of us. Alan Stubbs was one of the summarisers (as their called I think) so he added a bit of a balance to the Commentary from Merseyside. He didn't reckon Young's first yellow, didn't merit a yellow. But you just knew he'd get booked at Anfield. I think then though, he should have been subbed, as it was sure as nuts that they'd put all the pressure they could on Young for the rest of the match.
I'm glad he played more or less the same team, as I think they deserved it after the last game, but that was a mistake I think, carrying on with Young on the pitch.
I don't think Patterson is a finished article but he should have come on.
Major point seem to be the continuing bias towards Liverpool from the Officials from that cheating get Clive Thomas, through to another one, Battenburg and plenty more, down to today's officials. It stinks and the comments saying that the game is rigged towards the so called Big Teams, I totally agree with.
I don't see any point in calling for the manager to be sacked as we don't even know what state the club will be in or who will own it come a few weeks time. So some form of continuity is needed and we are looking a better team than we were.
It looks to me that there is enough comments on here suggesting we played reasonably well; and after the Bournemouth game, it looks like were in better shape to start moving away from the the bottom places. Though we have a few hard games to come. Well, there all going to be hard games!
As for Keane, me mate stated that Keane should never play for Everton again. I think Keane's always going to be a hazard in and around the penalty area, as he flaps his arms around like a brokenm windmill. The problem is, we haven't got a lot of choice to back up Branthwaite and Tarky, nor are we likely to be able to add to them until the Summer. If at all!

Jack Convery
120 Posted 21/10/2023 at 18:53:48
EPL to Klopp.

Look Jurgen we cocked up at Spurs but its gone now. However we will make it up to you asap. Expect a pen sooner than later. Also when one of your lads is on a yellow and does another worthy of a yellow - we will overlook it - just take the lad of straight away - wink wink and bobs your uncle and 3 points will be yours.

ok Jurgen. Stop smiling you're blinding us !!!!

Ref to Dyche - what do you expect. This is Anfield, Have a yellow.

Mark Murphy
121 Posted 21/10/2023 at 18:57:07
I think Dom is getting off lightly for that soft header. The Latch would’ve buried that!
Barry Hesketh
122 Posted 21/10/2023 at 19:00:22
Mark @123

I haven't seen the chance, but Latchford had an atrocious record against the other lot, whilst with Everton. He once, even lobbed one straight to Clemence in a game at the other place, pretty late in the game too if my memory serves. I'm not certain, but I don't think that the Latch ever scored for Everton in a derby game.

Niall McIlhone
123 Posted 21/10/2023 at 19:03:48
At 70 minutes, I genuinely felt we would hold out for a draw, despite my concern about the substitutions by Dyche, our defence looked composed and organised. Very little was coming past Myko and Jarrad on the left flank, so it came to pass that Patto was out done in the right and Keane inexplicably extended his right arm in a very unnatural position to concede the penalty.

There are a lot of plusses to be taken out of the game; I think Coleman has to be a shoe-in at RB when fit, along with Tarks, Jarrad and Myko as our first picks at the back. Onana and Garner are developing into a good midfield hub and hopefully we can improve in forward areas.
I fail to see how Keane, Patterson and Godfrey will get much game time under Dyche, though I do feel that Keane sometimes gets some unwarranted stick :to me, he is actually a decent footballer who is, unfortunately, prone to lapses in concentration which leaves us vulnerable.
Dyche will find a team he trusts when they are all fit, and it would not surprise me if Patterson and Godfrey are sold on, they are still young and you might expect would have decent re-sale value. The squad needs another re-set, however, we may be forced to wait until the Summer before this is possible.

Brian Denton
124 Posted 21/10/2023 at 19:08:59
Barry (124) I think your memory is pretty spot on. One blemish on Bob's record was never scoring against the Shite, even in his 30 League goals season. I think in the early to mid 70s we went about 4 seasons without even scoring against them, home or away.
Dave Abrahams
125 Posted 21/10/2023 at 19:09:58
Barry (124), Correct, Latchford never scored for Everton in a Derby game and that paltry lob came minutes from the end of 0-0 draw at Anfield, one on one and he fluffed it, he did it in the next away game at Leeds n another 0-0 draw, that was the season we threw the title away under Billy Bingham.
Jamie Crowley
126 Posted 21/10/2023 at 19:10:00
Colin G @ 77 -

Hear! Hear!

We do need to stay positive, and there are the makings of a team here to be sure.

Wait for it...


Ashley Young is just fucking awful. The decision to go in for a (rather healthy kick at a limb) challenge like that on a yellow is absolutely stupid!!! It absolutely changed the game, Young should feel such shame it should weigh on him for years! Just a stupid, stupid, stupid challenge on a yellow.

We have the makings of a team, by my Lord Young simply can not play! He is a massive liability and it's situations like this that kill a team. He let down his manager, teammates, and millions of Evertonians today.

In America we call these things "mental mistakes" by athletes. You can't even class this as a "mental mistake" as it was more in the realm of "shit for brains idiot".

I don't want to see him play again. Ever. With Seamus back Ashley Young shouldn't even be our second choice RB, it should be Paddo.

I'm still fuming at Young, and I'm not forgiving him for that asinine challenge.

Barry Hesketh
127 Posted 21/10/2023 at 19:15:34
Brian @
Yup, nine straight derby games without Everton scoring between David Johnson's winner in 1971 and Martin Dobson's consolation in October 1976. That was the one that the TV camera's pretty much missed.
Mark Murphy
128 Posted 21/10/2023 at 19:29:01
He didn’t Barry, your right, maybe I should’ve said big Dunc. But the point still stands - it was a chance and Dom should’ve worked the keeper at least.
I don’t think we would’ve won anyway but the unequal playing field engineered by refs these days makes me wish these “big” clubs HAD actually fucked off to a league of their own and left the rest of us to have a proper, honest competition. KAGS!
Colin Davidson
129 Posted 21/10/2023 at 19:29:55
Young and Keane are finished.

Keane must have weakest mentality of any player in Premier League and is a complete liability with mistakes guaranteed to come and be catastrophic.

Young is targeted by the opposition as a weak link and has been fortunate to get away with it mostly this season before today's brain-dead challenge.

Dyche deserves to be sacked if he ever picks either of these two again imo!

Paul Ferry
130 Posted 21/10/2023 at 19:30:20
1973-1975, Brian, six games on the trot without a goal.
Dave Abrahams
131 Posted 21/10/2023 at 19:36:41
There was no doubt about the penalty award, only that it wasn't awarded by Pawson the referee on the field.

Most defenders are very aware that penalties are given if the ball hits their hand, accidental or not, there is a picture of Mylenko, in today's game with his hands behind his back defending against a Liverpool attack.

When you see Keane's face after the penalty, you know he knows he made another cock-up, looks like he is ready to cry. I was like that when I saw him coming on for the second half.

Paul Hewitt
132 Posted 21/10/2023 at 19:40:23
We never get anything from their place, they are just better than us.

The referee was always going to be on their side after Klopp's moaning the other week.

I'm not even disappointed. Let's move on to West Ham next weekend.

Peter Mills
133 Posted 21/10/2023 at 19:43:37
I’ve watched 3 levels of football today.

Our game (on the telly), yet again a nonsense. Under the stupid rules of today, Keane’s handball was a penalty. No argument. But for anyone who has ever played the game, it shouldn’t be. So, daft rules come to be applied, therefore Young’s red card was correct. And the only conceivable punishment for Konaté was also a red. But, mysteriously, it was not. This is not accidental, it is corrupt, and at the end of the match I just shrugged my shoulders (I don’t blame the result solely on the corruption).

On to Marine, where a scrappy game was decided by two smart movements that were lovely to witness.

Best game of the day was a random one that broke out in the Marine car park post-match between a gang of lads and one girl, 7-12 year olds, kicking hell out of a ball. Said ball inevitably went into the clubhouse, was carried out by Marine’s chairman in his club tie and blazer, who gave them a minor bollocking, and told them to carry on but be careful.

How has the English Premier League come so far removed from the true beautiful game? On which note, RIP Bobby Charlton, a proper footballer.

Paul Ferry
134 Posted 21/10/2023 at 19:53:39
I don't think that Keane has a "weak" mentality Colin (Davidson). I think that he has "issues" with his mental health and that's altogether different.

The poor fella attracts mistakes and moans like iron filings zipping to magnets. He's nowhere near as poor as some say, but we need to move him on and I hate it when we go three at the back, it either means we got Dycheitis or a red card.

Jeff Armstrong
135 Posted 21/10/2023 at 19:56:27
Dave #125,

I take it you weren't a fan of Latchford after that derby miss?

I remember it well, I was in the RS Kop boysie that day, it was at the Anfield Road end if I recall.

After that miss, I suppose there was no coming back for the Latch for you?

Colin Davidson
136 Posted 21/10/2023 at 19:59:41
Well once he makes a mistake, he goes to pieces and I think he is a Championship defender at best.

Whilst he's not great shakes, I much prefer Godfrey in a back 3 – just not in a 2 or as full-back!

Dave Cashen
137 Posted 21/10/2023 at 20:02:57
Really, really annoyed at Young.

I don't usually abuse our players, but what a moron. Surely Dyche and his staff had been drumming into the players all week not to give the referee or his fifty thousand assistants a decision to make? Even if they didn't, Young has been around forever, He must know how it works at this shithole. Did he really imagine a different outcome to that incredibly stupid challenge?

I knew it wouldn't be a barrel of laughs sitting among the kopites, but they were even worse than I expected. The hatred spilling down at the referee or linesman if they gave us so much as a throw-in had to be heard to be believed.

When that ref trotted over to view Keane's "Handball" it was a complete charade. He was so desperate to appease the kopites, he had already made his mind up before he got near the screen. Some will say it was a penalty, but nobody will convince me it would have been awarded if it was the other way round.

And why on earth wasn't that Liverpool player (don't know his name) sent off for a second bookable offence? The ref may as well have ran over to Klopp and warned him to take him off.

Frustrated and angry, not because we lost, I can handle that, but because they were shite. They were out of ideas and If the ref hadn't have come to their aid, they wouldn't have scored if they were still playing now.

Paul Ferry
138 Posted 21/10/2023 at 20:03:55
I was unlucky enough to come of age just as Joe Harper arrived, Jeff, and I thought he was God!

My heart sank when we let go of Howard Kendall (not so much Archie Styles) but Big Bob quickly became my hero. I cannot think of him without a smile for those days.

Dare I even say it on today of all days, Bob was also and is a true gent!

Dave Abrahams
139 Posted 21/10/2023 at 20:06:54
Jeff (135), one bad miss or two on the run doesn't make you a poor player, same as two great goals in two games doesn't make you a great player.

Latchford had one great season, the 30 goals one. He was okay, definitely didn't walk on water. What put me off him was in one derby game at Goodison, he went in on Clemence like he was entitled to but Tommy Smith got hold of him and dragged him like a rag doll for a few yards and Bob took it and never had a go back.

I met him at Villa Park after he retired and me and Tony had a good chat to him for about 20 minutes, very easy to talk to and a nice man, too nice that day with Ugly (Tommy Smith).

You were right, Jeff, that miss was in the Anfield Road end; I was in the Kop.

Ian Bennett
140 Posted 21/10/2023 at 20:08:14
At least Michael Keane is consistent...
Paul Ferry
141 Posted 21/10/2023 at 20:10:22
"I eat him at Villa Park". Crikey, that is worrying. Can someone call the fuzz or the mods.
Tony Everan
142 Posted 21/10/2023 at 20:12:04
Here's the freeze frame of when Beto got pulled back by Konate. Defies belief he wasn't booked for this. Game changing decision, 10 v 10 and it's a different game.

Dave Abrahams
143 Posted 21/10/2023 at 20:14:23
Paul (141), I met him at Villa Park.

Been trying to alter that for the last few minutes without success, no need for the bizzies or mods!

Paul Ferry
144 Posted 21/10/2023 at 20:20:33
Dave, I remember sitting next to Tommy Smith – his lad was at our school – on a couch outside the headmaster's office, just the two of us.

I would have been about 12 or 13. I remember boils all over his face. I opened my mouth to say something and he looked at me and said "Fuck off, kid".

Tommy Smith / Bobby Charlton. Two opposite ends of a spectrum.

Dave Abrahams
145 Posted 21/10/2023 at 20:34:39
Paul (144),

‘Fuck off’ to a young boy, showed you the calibre of the man, a bully on the field and off.

Paul Ferry
146 Posted 21/10/2023 at 20:37:32
Dave, Ronny Moran, whose lad was also at the school (they lived in a semi in Thornton) was a nice fella.
Mark Murphy
147 Posted 21/10/2023 at 20:47:08
Tommy Smith, Joey Jones, Sourness, “Razor” fucking Ruddock, that other shite West Ham cunt (can't remember his name) RatBoy and now Robertson.

A team of fucking gobshite shithouses! Fcuk them! One day we'll have them.

Paul Ferry
148 Posted 21/10/2023 at 20:53:38
Yeah, fecking snide nasty full back with the pounce name, Julian Dicks.
David Bromwell
149 Posted 21/10/2023 at 20:57:28
Okay, we were unfairly treated today by the referee, and clearly the game should have been played 10 v 10. But once again I fear the manager made some fundamental errors.

It was a risk starting with Young who quickly got his familiar early booking. Dyche gambled again by leaving him on, and that failed. Okay, a change at half-time was expected, but Michael Keane? Once again, the gamble failed.

For me these were two clear and obvious errors by the manager. Add that to our all too familiar inability to play a pass and keep possession means we will always be beaten by the better teams. And although they didn't play well today, sadly they remain a much better team than us.

Mark Murphy
150 Posted 21/10/2023 at 21:03:08
Dicks! That's the fella! Less skill than Vinnie fucking Jones but they signed him.
Christopher Timmins
151 Posted 21/10/2023 at 21:37:22
With regards to Young, Rob H called it correctly yesterday. Rob sees the team in the flesh, week-in & week-out, and his judgment is to be respected. Young should have been hooked after the first booking.

Keane was at fault for the penalty, there was no need to bring him on.

The decision not to send off the Liverpool player was outrageous.

Dyche had a bad day at the office, he has a blind spot for certain players and it's costing us. 7 points from 9 games tells its own story.

Maybe staying up (we will) is enough for some but not for me!

Kim Vivian
152 Posted 21/10/2023 at 22:01:11
Shit... Just to put the cap on the day: South Africa nick the semi-final at the death of a mesmerizing game. Only consolation is I think England would have got battered by the All Blacks in the final.

ps: I said my bit about the football earlier. That was just shite – not from Everton but just about everything else.

Jeff Armstrong
153 Posted 21/10/2023 at 22:14:09
I'm sorry, Dave @139, but unless a player gets his ovies on and gets his trowel out before his debut, builds a wall on the half-way line, runs through said wall in the first minute and then tidies up the mess, I don't think he'll win you over, or redeem himself for the rest of his Everton career.

Only joking, Dave, but you're a tough audience.

Bobby Latchford walks on water for a massive amount of teenage Blues from 1974 to 1981.

Paul Ferry
154 Posted 21/10/2023 at 22:15:08
Fair comment, Danny. Branthwaite is young and that was a pressure cooker. He and Tarkowski are looking like a proper pairing in a relatively short amount of time. Bodes well for the rest of the season.

I am still alarmed, however, that Dyche sacrificed width with that double change, they have dodgy full-backs.

Ian Edwards
155 Posted 21/10/2023 at 22:18:01
We have some winnable games coming up so we can get back on track. I watched Man Utd and Sheff Utd lost again.
Paul Ferry
156 Posted 21/10/2023 at 22:21:38
Have we ever seen, since 1970, a better wide/centre combination than Dave Thomas and Big Bob? I don't even think that Tricky, Sharp and Gray were as good and certainly nothing has been anywhere near that quality since we last won the league.

Completely agree, Jeff, about '70s teens and Big Bob. The tragedy, if I am right, is that it was The Sun that set up the prize. Big Bob, Maxwell's Plum, Erics, Fawlty Towers, Jack Sharps.

Barry Hesketh
157 Posted 21/10/2023 at 22:26:22
Paul @156,

I have to respectfully disagree, Gray, Sharp, Sheedy and Steven are up there with the best of all-time Everton forwards.

Thomas and Latchford were a fantastic combination for a couple of years, but those I mentioned above were all good players for a fairly long time in Everton blue.

I'm fairly sure it was the Daily Express who gave the prize for the 30 goals in a season, it certainly wasn't The Sun.

Will Mabon
158 Posted 21/10/2023 at 22:27:37
Jack Sharps, proper blast from the past, that one.
Will Mabon
159 Posted 21/10/2023 at 22:28:43
Daily Express it was, £10 grand I think.
Barry Hesketh
160 Posted 21/10/2023 at 22:29:19
Will Mabon
161 Posted 21/10/2023 at 22:33:33
Found this:

"Then came a tax demand from the Inland Revenue on the £10,000. He was not laughing then as half of the money had gone to the Professional Footballers' Association and £4,000 into the players' pool. Latchford got £1,000. He ended up in court and lost." 

Jeff Armstrong
162 Posted 21/10/2023 at 22:34:14

It was The Express that set up the £10,000 prize that Latchford won in his one and only decent season. 🥴🥴

A Tory rag nonetheless, the only mass-read labour papers back then were the Mirror and the Morning Star.

Jeff Armstrong
163 Posted 21/10/2023 at 22:38:23
Will, I don't believe it ended up in court, but Latch didn't benefit from the full £10,000, which back then was probably about £100,000 now, which was an average salary for a Premier League footballer. Back then, it was a massive amount to win for a First Division footballer.
Billy Shears
164 Posted 21/10/2023 at 22:42:02
Yet again, we never laid a glove on them!... Young cost us dear, the sooner he joins Gana on the bench, the better.

Dyche's subs at half-time just handed the RS the initiative they needed to attack us more.

We must going forward find a way of starting Beto, Danjuma, McNeil, Harrison & Garner... our most creative players, to give us at least a fighting chance of winning games as, for me, we still play it far too safe!

John Raftery
165 Posted 21/10/2023 at 22:43:45
Pawson is an awful referee. We knew that before the game. He could hardly wait to issue yellow cards to our players but was loath to issue any to those in red. Klopp's recent pleading about poor decisions against his team has served its purpose; to win favour from officials in future matches. Job done.

I doubt there will be any sort of apology from Howard Webb for the refusal to give Konaté his marching orders. Why would there be? We are low in the table and were expected to lose to a team near the top.

Our back line performed well. Mykolenko was excellent in dealing with Salah. The problems were further forward. The passing was poor, the movement and pressing were uncoordinated and we were too open to the counterattack.

I was disappointed with James Garner in the first half hour when the game passed him by. That was the time when we needed him to stamp his authority on the play. He failed to do so.

Onana played well shielding the defence but struggled to make any impact going forward. His shot from the halfway line was ridiculous when he had the time and space to make a driving run forward.

Doucouré never stopped running but too often ran into dead ends while McNeil and Calvert-Lewin were too easily shackled by their markers.

Jeff Armstrong
166 Posted 21/10/2023 at 22:46:34
Paul#154, great point regarding their fullbacks and Dyche's subs,

Tsimikas should have been yellowed early on, Dyche should have exploited this with Harrison or McNeil second half, and got into the ref's ear.

He didn't, he gave them an easy ride second half and tried, and failed for a point.

Even if it had gone 10 v 10, we had nobody on the pitch to win the game with his negative half-time subs.

Will Mabon
167 Posted 21/10/2023 at 22:49:51

That was from the Daily Mail website, so the truth could be anything.

I know of one First Division footballer's salary from the late '80s – £60k per annum. Things have changed just a bit, eh?

Barry Hesketh
168 Posted 21/10/2023 at 22:55:41
I understand that Everton were away at a very difficult opponent and there's always a chance that you might get a hammering if you play too open, but to be unable to lay a glove on so many teams in too many games is a big issue for this current side.

There was an excuse when we lacked a forward; now that we have a few to choose from and yet still we have no cutting edge to speak of, particularly away against the higher-ranked teams.

It's all very well working hard off the ball and keeping shape etc but surely dealing with the ball should be second-nature to people who have been coached since a very early age.

Sheffield Utd when they were brave enough earlier tonight showed they could move the ball fairly well and get shots away against Man Utd.

They succumbed to Man Utd when they either chose to fall back or were pushed back by the opponents. I don't understand why we bother playing some matches if the best one team can do is to keep the other side out, but I suppose that's the modern way.

Paul Ferry
169 Posted 21/10/2023 at 22:57:30
Thanks for the corrections Jeff, Barry, and Will. So glad it was not that rag and thanks for reminding me about the tax issue. Good of Bob to pass the wealth on. The Guardian was sort of lefty Jeff in a Ken Barlow way. Maybe I'm clouded by my youth and happy memories Barry, but I still put DT and BL right up there in the pantheon.

That said the Reidy/Gray Tricky/Gray link ups in the 1985 Sunderland 4-1 are still to this day the best winger/striker goal/combinations that I have ever seen! What a goal that was. We went one down didn't we? What a performance that was. The starting 11 that day was THE team.

Thomas in particular would have glided into that mid-80s team and there would been some competition for places. I don't think of Sheeds, my favourite ever fella in blue, as an out-and-out wide player like DT.

I think of Jack Sharps every time I walk down Whitechapel Will.

Tony Abrahams
170 Posted 21/10/2023 at 23:01:34
Barry H@80,

I'm not sure but I do remember we had Yobo, alongside Carsley in midfield and neither of them could get near Alonso, even though we had the numerical advantage that day.

Michael K, I take your point but I thought Keane was more side on than square on, and it's not as if Liverpool, had many players lining up in the box. The ref was right on the spot and gave a corner but I suppose these are the rules (sometimes) and when Lampard told the truth about how referees ref games at Anfield, he was actually given a fine.

Maybe Everton should appeal that fine given to Lampard, or at least bring it up to Howard Webb first thing on Monday morning?

Paul Ferry
171 Posted 21/10/2023 at 23:02:20
And that Tricky Trev goal from THAT pass by Bracewell was sublime. That game is the one I think of with Bayern when I think of us in 1985. It was us at our most awesome and we got our 100th season goal that day. I could almost weep thinking how imperious we were.

Moston: "They're looking more and more like champions"

There were only around 36K at that game.

'Hand it over, hand it over.'

Jeff Armstrong
172 Posted 21/10/2023 at 23:04:09
Jack Sharps, Probe, The Conti, isn’t it ?wasn’t it?

Jumpers for goal posts.

Tony Abrahams
173 Posted 21/10/2023 at 23:10:17
Peter Mills @133,

Your final paragraph is exactly what I was thinking whilst watching today, but you have a lot more eloquence than me, mate👍

Paul Ferry
174 Posted 21/10/2023 at 23:12:41
The fella who owned/began Probe, Geoff Davies, sadly died a few weeks ago. Loved that place. Mohair jumpers and tight tartan or something similar kecks.

Good grief I'm getting teary, sentimental, and nostalgic here! White wine at 5PM brooding on the Derby don't help either.

Barry Hesketh
175 Posted 21/10/2023 at 23:13:19
Jeff @172

That reminds me of Unlucky Alf the character in the Fast Show, who I'm sure would be the perfect nickname for poor old Michael Keane, if there's something that can go wrong for the lad, it usually does, he's always in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Paul @ 174

I think I'll have to do similar on the alcohol front, as I've just read on G.O.T:

So since he [Bill Kenwright] became head honcho in December 1999 we've now suffered our 28th derby defeat and have won just 5 in that time.

I haven't checked that fact because I really don't want to.

Paul Ferry
176 Posted 21/10/2023 at 23:18:36
Club Continental, The Conti, Jeff, spot on, Wolstenholme Square, if memory serves. Opened just in time for Oxford away.
Jeff Armstrong
177 Posted 21/10/2023 at 23:19:35
Barry 175

“Oh bugger”

Michael Keane as the ball hits his arm and he hears a whistle go!

Will Mabon
178 Posted 21/10/2023 at 23:20:40
I was at that match against Sunderland, Paul, with my father. A great game.

It was packed, looked to be more in there than stated – which seemed to happen, er, now and then...

Paul Ferry
179 Posted 21/10/2023 at 23:25:48
True Will, the published crowd always seemed on the smaller side. Street End was heaving.
Jeff Armstrong
180 Posted 21/10/2023 at 23:33:16
Yes, Paul, The Conti in the '80s was the place to go after Kirklands, Plummers etc.

I bumped into Sharp, Heath and Richardson et al a few times back then. Sharp was always an obnoxious twat even then, didn't want to engage with the great unwashed, and he had thunder thighs too.

Kieran Kinsella
181 Posted 21/10/2023 at 23:36:42
(Un?) fortunately I don't get the USA channel and it's one of the few in America that you can't stream. So as anticipated I slept and read Michael's report at 8:30.

Surprisingly enough other media including The Sun and BBC shared the view “we was robbed.” I did find it amusing Klopp said he sympathized with us but “you get over these things quickly” even while he still bangs on about the Spurs game.

I've seen several people defending Keane and it may well be he was hard done by. But whether he's at fault or not, the outcome is always the same. He has this habit of scoring own goals and conceding penalties.

Remember the dubious VAR review at Brighton? I'm not saying it's his fault but the guy is clearly the unluckiest SOB in the world which makes him a liability.

As for Young, I thought he seemed an okay signing but everything I've seen of him this season suggests we waited a year too long and he's just not up to it any more. The rash tackles remind me of the dying embers of Bryan Robson's career where he evolved into Terry Hurlock 2.0 and was a card magnet.

Luckily, the various posters who slagged off Dyche and said we should have gone for Kompany look a bit silly now as his team continue to keep us above water. Bournemouth likewise seem to have made a huge mistake firing O'Neill.

Paul Ferry
182 Posted 21/10/2023 at 23:39:54
Kirklands! You've started me off again, Jeff.

Remember nattering with Claire Grogan in there. Someone might correct me, but Sharp had a real reputation for not signing things or chatting.

I remember when the team could always be found in The Weld Blundell on the Formby bypass on Wednesday nights if not playing. They would all have a chat apart from guess who. I remember Alan Harper puking up in the car park!

Barry Hesketh
183 Posted 21/10/2023 at 23:42:19
Another snippet relating to today's game, apparently we committed 4 fouls and received 5 yellow cards, I think Dyche was booked.

Surely, we must have committed more than 4 fouls in the game, and if we didn't, why not?

Jeff Armstrong
184 Posted 21/10/2023 at 23:44:38
Sharp had a reputation for not engaging with fans … and yet Kenwright made him a fans liason director.

Paul Ferry
185 Posted 21/10/2023 at 23:47:20
Woan was booked as well, Barry.
Barry Hesketh
186 Posted 21/10/2023 at 23:47:38
Jeff @186,

Accountants that can't add up, CEOs who don't think for themselves — it's the Everton way!

Peter Moore
187 Posted 21/10/2023 at 23:50:17
Pete @133. That was very good to read.

I agree totally about the ridiculousness of the situation, where bookings, a sending off and a penalty are given and considered correct, due to the absurdity of the current interpretations of the rules.

Then even more abhorrent, the absence of the same interpretation by the same referee, in the same match, for the second booking on Konate, that was not given.

That 'mistake' by the ref, totally changed the game. Keane would not have come on had it been 10 a side would he, no penalty, a different game. A good game had been developing, totally spoilt by an, at best, 'incompetetent' referee. It seems we cursed against the Red Shite.

I suffer from optimism, I am looking for the turning of the luck, or at least an evening out of it, and we get revenge in the return match at Goodison. We owe them big-time. May we get back to winning ways next time out in the meantime.

Well played Everton today though, the lads did not deserve that officiating Horror Show, at the House of Horrors, today. I hope they hold their heads up high and take their frustrations out on the coming opponents. Up the Toffees.

Jeff Armstrong
188 Posted 21/10/2023 at 23:57:40
Barry188, it's probably not just us.

If you went on Southampton, Norwich, Sunderland, Rotherham etc fan sites you'd probably read similar stuff.

Football is a magnet for dreamers, schemers and losers,
… and gullible fans.

Neil Tyrrell
189 Posted 21/10/2023 at 01:44:22
Fuck me sideways, Bob Latchford's taking shit on here now? He's a huge reason I fell in love with Everton in the '70s and we haven't had a better centre-forward since him. Stop It!

Super Latch forever!!! 💙

Laurie Hartley
190 Posted 22/10/2023 at 01:57:54
Dave # 145 - “ a bully on the field and off.” except when Johnny Morrisey was in the vicinity.

Mark # 147 - “ One day we’ll have them” - yes indeed.

Neil Tyrrell
191 Posted 22/10/2023 at 02:05:58
Saw 3 similar penalties given today for unintentional handball, against us, Man Utd and Arsenal. Keane's was probably middle of the 3 in terms of being blatant but they were all nailed on penalties, no doubt about it.

Just don't stick your arm out when a cross is coming in, Michael, it's not rocket science.

Better yet, just don't play him.

Pete Clarke
192 Posted 22/10/2023 at 03:16:46
We know decisions are gonna go against us when we play them at Anfield but there are so many things we don't get right ourselves which always come back to haunt us.

Calvert-Lewin should have burst the net with that early chance – they don't come easier than that.

Dyche playing Young in the first place and then not removing him after the soft first yellow.

Dyche reverting to ultra-defense mode by removing McNeil and Harrison, therefore leaving us with zero attacking options.

Keane should have gone years ago. He's just not up to it at this level. Putting him on was a big mistake by Dyche.

Do we actually practice ball skills and passing to team mates because we are really poor in possession? What is Dyche's coaching team doing all week?

We are gonna suffer this shit forever unless we get a manager who is progressive thinking in football terms but also willing to meet all opponents head-on.

I'm sick of this surrender shit, regardless of the corrupt and inept officials.

Joe Digney
193 Posted 22/10/2023 at 06:07:41
Pete @ 194
Couldn’t agree more mate.
Jerome Shields
194 Posted 22/10/2023 at 06:30:47
Young was targeted as a weak link and he proved so. Keane was a weak link before he came on and everyone knew it.

I do not think that Dyche in his selections and tactics has the simple aim of maintaining a challenge. This is a thread that runs through all his team performances this season. Bournemouth were no challenge. He is about improving stats and defending them. Even this squad could have got more out of that game, if challenging had been the objective.

Dyche is about survival at best and Everton are stuck with him, such has been the mismanagement off the pitch, which is ongoing.

Mick O'Malley
195 Posted 22/10/2023 at 06:57:12
Pete @194,

I'm in total agreement, shithouse football from a shithouse safety first manager. I can't stand the fella, I honestly can't wait for him to be fucked off.

Taking the 2 wingers off was ridiculous and if I see Ashley Young at right back again, I'll tear out what little hair I've got left. Young is woeful.

And as for Michael Keane, what the fuck was he doing? I'm sick of losing to the RS. Mind you, how that Konate stayed on the pitch is a mystery, definitely a red card.

Laurie Hartley
196 Posted 22/10/2023 at 07:16:55
Cheer up fellas. We all know we got stitched up by the referee and his invisible accomplices. So does our manager, his offsider, and the players but at no point did they fold.

That is what I am taking away from this game. This group of players has got a heart and they will get better.

I don't feel the need to criticise individuals but I have to give a shout-out for Mykolenko. This lad has been written off by many of us (not me) but he kept one of the best wide men in the world quiet today and that is the first priority of a full-back.

Sean Dyche now has to play young Patterson and I believe he will end up a top full-back. Both of them have that “Who the fuck are you”? attitude about them. A vital ingredient of an Everton player's make-up in my opinion.

ps: Going by Sean Dyche's post-match comments, I would say this game as turned him into an Evertonian. That's a good thing.

“You have gotta pay your dues if you wanna sing the blues” – but we will be singing them soon enough.

Eddie Dunn
197 Posted 22/10/2023 at 07:31:39
Despite an impressive defensive effort the fact that Dyche withdrew our two wingers caused us to lose the ability to play any creative football.

Klopp knew that our only likely way of scoring was from a set-piece and once McNeil and Harrison went off, it made Klopp's job very easy.

Obviously, the pressure loaded by Klopp on the referees resulted in this twit and his VAR man Coots (another dreadful ref) shitting themselves.

However, despite the possibility of Konate deserving a second yellow, and the Greek kid getting away with three fouls in quick succession, we failed to take an easy chance and then failed to make another one.

Liverpool are nowhere near the sort of team that you have to play that way. We gave them far too much respect. Mark my words, lots of ordinary sides will go to Anfield and expose their soft underbelly.

As for Dyche, his methods might keep us up and out of the dogfight but, long term, he is not the answer.

Paul Smith
198 Posted 22/10/2023 at 08:04:50
Watching MotD and Keane is a dumb fuck!
Martin Farrington
199 Posted 22/10/2023 at 08:06:07
Pawson… 🤬
Danny O’Neill
200 Posted 22/10/2023 at 08:50:11
Dave Cashen, I'm still stewing over the blatant biased refereeing. Should we demand a replay as our German rival suggested a couple of weeks ago?

I know the answer. No. Because it would be laughed at and we have more class than the smiling sore loser with his Ross from Friends teeth.

I too have sat amongst the uneducated at our former stadium many times and it borders on unbearable.

John Raftery. Best post on the thread. A loss is always disappointing, especially against them. But in the circumstances, we played decent. Against the odds and, as much as I hate the phrase, up against the 12th man (the man in black), we held on to give ourselves a chance but just succumbed to the inevitable in the end. Yes, Dyche played into Klopp's hands, but a few seasons ago, that ends up being an embarrassing thumping.

West Ham to think about now. For those travelling, get in touch. It's an early start for those making the journey from afar.

I'll probably make my way to Stepney Green station. There is the Half Moon or maybe the infamous Blind Beggar. It's friendly around there.

As with many London clubs, if you go too close to the ground, they get funny about away supporters. Even though it's right next to the Westfield shopping centre, they still check and I struggle to convince them I live in London.

It's gone. It's done. We move on.

My nephew (season ticket holder) is in hospital and having to have surgery. My sister messaged me yesterday to tell me his main concern that was he wouldn't be able to watch the match!

Dave Abrahams
201 Posted 22/10/2023 at 08:54:20
Laurie (190),

Ugly never got involved with Mogsy, Dennis Law was another yet Latch walked away, sorry about that Neil (189), you were only a boy when you fell in love with him, we all make mistakes especially when we are young, and I did say he was a lovely fella to talk to!

I fell in love with Dave Hickson when I was 10 but that wasn't a mistake!

Ian McDowell
202 Posted 22/10/2023 at 08:57:55
Pawson knew he had to show a second yellow card and send Konate off. It wasn't a mistake, a bad decision or he didn't see something — it was corruption. The fact that Klopp subbed him straight after says it all.

Someone from the club should be calling this out.

Lee Courtliff
203 Posted 22/10/2023 at 08:58:45
I'm no fan of Dyche but I think he's been better this season than what I was expecting. Some of the football has been good and we've created plenty of chances.

I was amazed he left Gana on the bench yesterday when I was fully expecting him to be brought straight back in for his 'experience'. The only thing he got wrong was playing Young, and leaving him on when he received his first yellow.

The defensive switch at half-time was understandable: away at Liverpool with 10 men for more than an hour, a draw would have been greeted as a miracle by many.

I think Dyche will do alright with us, he's winning me over and I was one of his biggest critics.

All he has to do is persist with Patterson at right-back and consign Michael Keane to the history books!

Kevin Naylor
205 Posted 22/10/2023 at 10:07:40
Imagine the '70s football without big Bob.

I was at Elland Road when he equalised against West Ham in the cup and jumped on the fence at the Everton end. Most exciting moment I've ever experienced in football.

Rob Halligan
206 Posted 22/10/2023 at 10:16:20
Christopher # 51…

Yes, I was proved right about Ashley Young being a liability in a highly intense match, so soon after the RS game at Spurs. This was in fact their first league game at home since that Spurs game, so we all knew who the referee was going to favour.

Young was laced at Brentford in the first minute, committed a foul and got booked, so it was vitally important yesterday that he gave Pawson no reason whatsoever to show him a yellow card. The first yellow was silly, sticking his knee out and inviting the foul, which was duly accepted, giving Pawson his chance.

Their left full back, don't know his name, don't want to, had committed about four fouls alone in the first half, yet no sign of a card. Yet this may have been Young's first foul, and out it came.

The second foul was just ridiculous. Diaz had laced him, so just let him go; they might have scored, they might not, but at least don't give Pawson a reason to show a second yellow and we keep eleven men on the pitch.

Their centre half, Konate (?), should have walked, no doubts about it, and it just defies belief that he never. Okay, the ball was still in our half, but it seemed like Beto had a clear run on goal, albeit about a 60-yard run, but he's quick and I doubt he would have been caught. In fact, Konate did walk, being subbed almost immediately by Bingo who knew he had got away with it.

I found the half-time substitutions bizarre. To remove both McNeil and Harrison was daft. It just gave their two full-backs licence to bombard down each wing. We had no outlets whatsoever, our only source of crossing the ball wiped out, unless it was from a corner.

We did well to hold out as long as we did, and I was really beginning to think we could hang on. The RS seemed to be running out of ideas, but alas, it was not to be, as the almost inevitable happened, although there cannot be any arguments for the penalty decision. Keane did exactly the same at Leicester last season.

I honestly couldn't tell you how many times I've been to our former home, but I've only seen us win twice. Sadly it's becoming routine, and the disappointment lessens season by season.

At least the effort was there, and for me, Mykolenko was our star man. He had Salah in his pocket for 75 minutes until he was given the opportunity from the spot to score.

So on we go to West Ham, whilst all is well with Bingo again, having finally got the officials back on his side… The Teutonic Twat!!

Rob Dolby
209 Posted 22/10/2023 at 10:52:34
Lee 203. Agree with most of that besides the Patterson call.

Young was brought in to provide cover for both full-backs and generally has been poor in every game he has played. An experienced pro getting 2 bookings for 2 challenges is unforgivable.

Mykolenko has risen to the challenge and is a better defender than most make out.

Patterson doesn't offer enough at either end of the pitch. It will be interesting to see who Dyche picks to play right-back against West Ham as I personally think Garner is a better full-back.

As for some of the comments about Keane keeping his arms by his side are just ridiculous. The game is played at a fast pace, the ball was crossed over from about 3 yards with him running towards his own goal. It hit his arm and was a soft penalty.

For all concerned, we need to move Keane on, he is unlucky Alf, as someone above pointed out.

Danny O’Neill
210 Posted 22/10/2023 at 11:06:32
Rob, it was almost as if Herr Klopp had a meeting during the week and was provided a headset to discuss decisions with the on-pitch officials and Stockley Park.

He strutted around the technical area mouthing off. Our manager makes a legitimate complaint about a legitimate second yellow and gets booked before they instantly withdraw the player, but keep 11 players on the pitch. Those decisions should go to the VAR, as they couldn't have come up with any other conclusion unless they are being influenced.

Clive Thomas. Alan Hansen's League Cup Final handball. Don Hutchinson's "goal". Gerrard changing the ref's initial decision to get Tony Hibbert sent off. Carragher wrestling Lescott to the ground that should have been a stonewall penalty.

There are no doubt many more with this fixture. When will it end?

I'll catch up with you at West Ham.

Laurie Hartley
211 Posted 22/10/2023 at 11:31:19
Rob # 209 - I have to disagree on the penalty call. I watched the replays with the views from the opposite side of the 6 yard box and was amazed at what I saw.

As soon a it looked like a cross was coming in he stuck his arm out - and then adjusted it! Deliberate handball in my book. The question in my mind is why?

Ian Edwards
212 Posted 22/10/2023 at 12:04:17
Putting aside the officiating, Dyche's half-time subs were rank.

As for the officiating, we know what happens throughout history. Even one of the linesmen at the Clattenburg derby was a Liverpool fan.

Andy Crooks
215 Posted 22/10/2023 at 13:23:36
Dyche sees the players all week and should most times know better than us. However, not always. Not even Pep always knows better than tens of thousands watching from what is often a better viewpoint than him.

Many knew that Young would be vulnerable and targeted, maybe sent off. We all suspected that Patterson might be. The mighty difference is that Patterson will get better and needs experience. Young will get worse, that is indisputable.

In my view, playing Young was stubborn, misguided and possibly lost us a winnable game.

Brian Wilkinson
216 Posted 22/10/2023 at 13:29:33
The fact that the ref gave Everton a free kick says it all for the Konate second yellow, had he not give the foul we could moan but at least think ref missed it, but the very fact that every single week, players get booked for the taking one for the team foul should have had the same outcome.

If Konate is not already on a yellow, he would have been booked for a professional foul, that fact he was already on a yellow, should not have influenced the ref, he did not follow the letter of the law and made his own decision, for that he should be suspended from duties.

He cannot even say he used his own judgment and common sense, and unaware of rule whatever, because he applied it when he gave Young two yellow cards, the same should have applied to Konate.

It is no use appealing, our neighbours did and were richly rewarded, the last time we did, and got a letter of apology for the Rodri handball, the following three games we played, we had three players sent off, one in each game and countless penalty appeals turned down.

They look after their own, god forbid any of the rest dare to challenge the top brass against one of their darlings.

With a separate issue popping up on the 25th, Profitability and Sustainability, separate I think from FFP Premier League rulings, the last thing we need to do is go and complain about the ref, because you know they might very well say "We are deeply sorry" – it's the consequences we get after that, that bothers me, for daring to ask for another apology.

Dave Abrahams
218 Posted 22/10/2023 at 13:43:03
Mention of Kirkland's further up the thread reminded me of the first time I tasted broccoli, that was in Kirkland's, if it is the same place, further down from The Philarmonic pub on the same side?

That was in the early eighties and a place to meet, have a meal a couple of drinks and a few more around town before heading back up town to a stay behind in The Goblin in Islington then getting a taxi home or the first bus Sunday morning, wish I could do that now!

Tony Abrahams
219 Posted 22/10/2023 at 13:44:07
Danny @213, the Liverpool fans sing "Fuck the Tories", but when you look back at how they grabbed some of the houses very cheap to extend the area around their ground, then it was definitely the opposite of what any socialist would have been prepared to do.

The best explanation I have received was “that was years ago” but when you analyze some of the things their great fans constantly bring up on the internet, every time something goes against them, then the most logical thing to think is that Liverpool Football Club must have a department dedicated to digging up some of the incredible stuff that is found?

Nick Page
220 Posted 22/10/2023 at 14:00:29
Many of them haven't got a clue what they're on about anyway Tony/Danny (as evidenced by my family members) but that said, supporting them is more like being a cult member than an actual football fan. So whatever some higher up says they all say and nod along verbatim.

Most of them would be well employed at the Ministry of Truth. I've had plenty of good debates with other fans of other teams but never them.

Dale Self
222 Posted 22/10/2023 at 14:35:44
The criticism for taking two wingers off when we were down to ten misses the point. Why run down Harrison and McNeil when they are both working their way back to full fitness? It was the odds on move to make.
Eddie Dunn
223 Posted 22/10/2023 at 14:42:43
Ian, I am in agreement on these ridiculous minutes of silence/applause etc and taking the knee.

There does seem to be some death or disaster every week.
I think natural disasters that happen in the UK might be justifiable on occasion but where do we draw the line? I notice the 2000 Afgans dying in the recent earthquake did not register a silence.

Sport should be kept away from politics as far as possible.
Just as on ToffeeWeb, we have one thing in common -EFC.

Bobby Charlton is an obvious person to celebrate. He represented the sport with dignity for many years and was known all over the world for his sporting prowess. He is the sort of person we should acknowledge.

Former players, coaches and chairmen, who served with distinction should be granted such ceremony — not causes, victories or virtues.

Christy Ring
224 Posted 22/10/2023 at 14:46:01
The first yellow for Young was definitely the wrong call, after Harrison lost the ball, and the Greek left-back did the exact same thing 5 minutes later, and two further fouls, and the ref did absolutely nothing.

We should have been playing the last 30 minutes 10 v 10, and it could have been a different result, even though the Shergar-teethed Klopp thought differently.

Regarding Keane getting all the flak for the handball, if Patterson had made a tackle, the cross wouldn't have come in.

Roger Helm
225 Posted 22/10/2023 at 14:48:28
Actually, Ian, I agree with you, at least as far as south-east England goes. I attended a Saracens match once and I thought the crowd were funny. One player dropped the ball just before scoring a try and the chap behind me said “Oh for heaven's sake!”

Then the referee made an obvious wrong decision and he said “Nonsense, referee!” We still laugh about it, thinking what our usual crowd at Castleford would have said in the same circumstances.

Dale Self
226 Posted 22/10/2023 at 14:50:13
I also like that those who most want politics out of football are most likely to introduce politics to these threads. If you let the human expression take place without your unnecessary input, ta da, no politics just compassion.
Peter Mills
227 Posted 22/10/2023 at 15:29:25
Is Beto any better than Ellis Simms?
Anthony A Hughes
228 Posted 22/10/2023 at 15:44:44
On the evidence so far, Peter, I'd say there isn't much in it.
Makes Doucoure's technique look like Messi.
Dale Self
229 Posted 22/10/2023 at 15:47:34
Forum notice: Calvert-Lewin is back so now it is Beto who will be the target of various unspecified criticism. You are welcome.
Barry Hesketh
230 Posted 22/10/2023 at 16:08:54
If a player is struggling to control or pass a football, fans are entitled to give their views. So far, Beto hasn't impressed me apart from against lower league Doncaster.

If he's been brought in as a possible replacement for Dominic Calvert-Lewin – if for instance he was to take the money from Gerrard's club, which I don't believe he will – then Beto has to show a great deal more in the heat of the Premier League.

At the moment, he looks bang average and possibly below that level. He'll get time from me, but he has to improve most aspects of his game before he will have the full confidence of the majority of the fans.

Joe McMahon
231 Posted 22/10/2023 at 16:12:13
Barry @230, I kind of agree, but give him some slack.

I'm more disappointed that Calvert-lewin is missing easy chances like he was pre-injury. This should be bread and butter to any main striker, particularly at this level.

Dale Self
232 Posted 22/10/2023 at 16:30:09
Barry 230, I am with that especially the last paragraph. It should also be noted that McNeil took these kind of hits on character and talent. No one is on his ass now are they?

Much of this frustration with the team that is fiercely focused on individual players is actually a grey area. Our lack of a system and associated way of playing makes all functional play a one off. By that I mean we are cobbling together things that work for the players we have. We cannot just plug Beto into what works for DCL.

Add to that any adjustment to the higher intensity and defensive complexity of the Premier League and well just put a fucking target on his jersey instead of a number. It isn’t a fair criticism and it is self defeatism. If people want to slam the new arrivals, fine, but not without a comment if it cannot be stated as you have. Standards man, standards

Jay Harris
233 Posted 22/10/2023 at 16:31:16
I am more convinced about Chermiti developing into Dom's replacement than Beto who for me just has nuisance value.
Andy Crooks
234 Posted 22/10/2023 at 16:37:02
Pete @228.

Is Beto better than Rondon?

Not yet, not yet at all. Though he seems to have mastered Rondon's ambling about skills already.

Brian Wilkinson
235 Posted 22/10/2023 at 16:37:33
Barry, the only objective I can throw up is Calvert-Lewin had McNeil and Harrison to assist, by the time Beto came on, both had been subbed, Beto would have been smacking his lips, had he had the same cross Calvert-Lewin had, with his early chance.

I would start with Beto when we play the cup game, give Calvert-Lewin the second half if needed, then we might see how good Beto is, when he has McNeil and Harrison on the pitch to feed him.

Paul Birmingham
236 Posted 22/10/2023 at 16:39:41
Brian, a good call regards Beto.
Steve Brown
237 Posted 22/10/2023 at 16:47:07
Before we start writing off/slagging off Beto as sub-standard, Championship at best, lazy, waste of money etc.

Perhaps we should allow him to play, I don't know, 10 games for the club? Or even start 10 games in a new league in a new country.

Ian Edwards
238 Posted 22/10/2023 at 16:48:29
The anti-Beto comments are seriously lacking judgment. He is suffering what most Everton strikers have suffered for years. Isolated due to negative "keep it tight and nick one" managers.

How are forwards expected to score when marked by 4 defenders? Maupay absolutely ruined his career signing for us as did Tosun, Niasse and Kean.

How many chances were created for Maupay in his whole Everton career? 2? 3?

If the tactics are going to be one up front with crabs in midfield, then prime Pele would struggle. That was the team for the last 20 minutes when Beto came on.

Anthony A Hughes
239 Posted 22/10/2023 at 16:49:43
If I was to describe Beto's style, it would be clumsy, ambling, and slow to accelerate but awkward to stop when he gets going.

Hopefully some Premier League sharpness will come with more games…

Dale Self
240 Posted 22/10/2023 at 16:50:23
My thing is that, to see what Beto has, we need to get balls to the by-line and crosses delivered from sustained possession.

Right now, we are lucky to get into the final third with any reliable chance of making a run to get numerical superiority on a wing. We also need box possession to get McNeil or Harrison isolated so they might get to the by-line.

Beto has skills for a system yet to be developed. He doesn't bring an automatic set-up. He will likely keep value even if he doesn't ultimately prove to be the replacement for Dom (not Rondon damn it).

Neil Copeland
241 Posted 22/10/2023 at 16:52:10
Here we go again, another player who has been with us for 5 minutes is written off as being shite. Echoes of McNeil and Mykolenko…

Jeez, give the lad a chance to show what he can do over a full season at least. A pity Konate brought him down or we may all be lauding him as a hero today.

Jerome Shields
242 Posted 22/10/2023 at 16:54:32
Laurie #211,

I agree Keane did handle the ball deliberately. I also watched replays from various angles. In the past, I have also watched replays of goals where Keane is a fault. This has been particularly the case when Keane has had to react on his right side. He has unexplainably turned away to his right creating space for an attacker.

He did this, or turned left into the play not looking at all confident and likely to do anything: fluff clearing his lines, caught on the back foot, hesitated and late with the challenge.

I think he knew he was off the position he should have been and tried to put the attacker off with the deliberate raised arm, which backfired. He does try to compensate for his inadequacies.

Frank Thomas
243 Posted 22/10/2023 at 18:52:42
Whatever the reason for the poor referring decisions against us over the last 10 years or longer, maybe it's ineptitude, corruptness, favouritism or dislike of us, frightened of the crowd, Klopp or the American owners, brilliant fouling acting by the LFC players, we the fans and Everton management are all all overlooking one very vital point.

Every game we have lost due to those reasons has cost us millions in prize money revenue from being 3 points lower in the league as well as possible moves into Europe which again would have resulted in lower earnings.

Our management should spend a £100k (one week of DCL's non scoring salary) and look into the number of points that we have lost over the last 10+ years. Ready to point out to the FA if the independent commission finds against us.

As for the crap "it all evens out in the end" — that is total bullshit and everyone knows that. A good example: LFC last player fouls Kane in the Chamopions League final to stop his one-man charge and they Spurs get a free kick. Nothing happens to Robertson.

2nd example: we have had 13 players given red cards in the derby and a lot have been similar to Young's red. No wonder they only have 7 with yesterday's game typical of decisions against us.

I think even Klopp was embarrassed yesterday when interviewed on TV he was looking over the shoulder of the interviewer while he thought of fictional things to say about his team.

Kevin Edward
244 Posted 22/10/2023 at 22:37:01
As disappointing as it was, as usual not a big surprise to most Blues that the ref was yet again unable to resist.

The Premier League isn't a fair competition, it's loaded more now than ever in favour of the usual suspects. It's hard to take, but I wouldn't trade our two league championships in the 80s for success in the Premier League now.

There's a limit on how competitive you can be when the cards are so stacked against you. Dyche knows this for sure, we need to batter them at Goodison, but only the eleven on the pitch can make that happen whoever they are, plus the ref and the knob who is the VAR.

Dave Abrahams
246 Posted 23/10/2023 at 18:08:16
Yes, I agree, Beto needs more time to prove what he can do, as does the young lad bought in the summer, but what about Dobbin? Is he going to be left on the bench?

He did okay in the friendly games and early league matches but hasn't played much since, is he the next Academy player to be sold on?

Jason Li
247 Posted 23/10/2023 at 18:27:21
Ignoring all the refs decisions, the Blues looked the equal of what the media believe are a top team, before the sending off.

Hopefully next year Dyche can find someone who can hurt teams in the Number 10 position, to alternate with Doucoure. I think having the luxury of a player like James Rodriguez could have led to a break -through again before the sending-off, as we had the ball in some good positions and their defence is not as good as the media believe.

Or maybe another player who can play centre-midfield and Garner as the attacking midfielder as he's got a pass and finish on him. Something like this where there are even more options when you play a team that has all the midfield pressing and leaving big gaps in front of the back four.

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