Gana's drop-off is becoming a problem

What is the love in this Gana? He been shit for a few seasons and does nothing going forward. He couldn't hit a barn door.

He just has high energy levels... but now, with 5 subs, we don't even need a marathon runner in the middle.

It's true we've been better this season but it's also true the Premier League this season has been more open, as teams have dropped points across the board and not one team -- even Arsenal -- are capable of dominating.

We've picked up points on the road in large part because of this inconsistency among Premier League teams, and not because we've dominated away games. So, while I'm grateful for Moyes returning to steady the ship, I still think we can do so much better with a more forward-thinking coach at the helm.

It is obvious we have enough talent to avoid what is a manager-created bottleneck.

So, from here, Moyes must give time to the other options to assess requirements for next season.

I agree that his decline has been slow rather than a parachute jump. I don't think Moyes is doing him any favours at all. He's not getting there to make the tackles he used to. Starting him all the time, it will only hasten his retirement. He should have given him a few weeks off and brought him back fresh for the run-in

Mind you, I think Ndiaye should have been sat down too.

Offering Gana another contract last season was the right thing to do given the circumstances at the club. He is still a big player for us.

Over to TFG.

And while you're there, buy the Brentford, Bournemouth and Brighton scouting networks, you absolutely useless twats.

Director of Football should identify this and hopefully for the fucking money you're getting paid you can sort this.

If not, we know you're happy to just take the Premier League money midtable finishes.

Show us the money and show us the ambition, TGF.

It would be nice to come on here and read some positive posts for a change, but each to their own.

Alongside Garner and Dewsbury-Hall.

He has been very good since he came back, and I'd keep him for the bench next season. He has the ability to see a game out, and those points could be key come the business end of the season.

Certainly you need bodies in central midfield - pre Christmas we had none, so why people want him gone is madness. Decent in the dressing room, always fit, puts it in. You cant bemoan a small squad one minure, and then chase them out the next.

The Everton squad next season isn't containing 25 international quality players at their peak. Hell, we will be lucky to have 25 players and coaches come July with out-of-contract players and loan returns.

Woulda, shoulda, coulda in terms of dropping him vs Bournemouth. I think if Moyes had dropped him and it had gone pear-shared like it did, plenty would've been moaning that we miss his ratting ability and that the others aren't up to it. Hindsight is a wonderful thing on these pages. There was enough quality on the pitch Tuesday, they just didn't deliver.

Everton have a succession plan for his position, it's called Harrison Armstrong. And he will benefit having Gana around.

Patric, you.ve got this so wrong. And sone of the comments that piled in, after, are equally as piss poor.

I thought Gana made some critical interceptions against Bournemouth that showed great anticipation and positioning. I should check his stats to see how that was reflected.

Wasn't that why his new contract took so long to sign, as he didn't want the 1 year that was originally offered?

Sometimes I get a feeling that Gueye is not always in sync with the players behind him... well, that's how it looks to me anyway when he goes chasing teams down and the players behind him go deeper, which instantly makes the middle of the pitch a lot bigger, instead of pushing up to keep the space in between the lines a lot tighter.

That's how we reported it at least:

Idrissa Gana Gueye extends his future with Everton

Gana's current deal expires June 30 with a club option to extend another year.

Ian #16, great post, covers it all for me. But as others have mentioned, it's not just Armstrong in the picture to replace him. Dewsbury-Hall, Rohl or Iroegbunam are candidates as well.

We got a glimpse of Dewsbury-Hall working back there and he looked great generating attack from defense.

93% passing accuracy 53 from 57
90% passing in opposition half 27 out of 30
1 key pass
5 defensive contributions
6 recoveries
1 shot - blocked
73 touches
14 carries
Dribble past zero

I'd happily say that those are at the top end for most Premier League players.

If there was a fault on Tuesday, it was the gap for the O'Brien sending off.

It's funny how people bitch about his passing -- but it only takes one, I guess... and he did miss 4 -- shock horror!

Now his shooting is really bad, even though he has scored the odd goal. But I scream loudly when I think he's going to try one.

All players have periods of good form and bad form. With an older player, it is too easy to make the lazy assumption that age is the cause of a period of below usual performance.

Some other points you just state without backing up with any reasoning or evidence (eg " And that isn't just because Everton are playing differently").

When you do use evidence, you are placing far too much weight on too little evidence. You place a lot of weight on the number of tackles won as if that defines defensive solidity.

Think to yourself who your top 3 stalwarts of Everton defensive solidity are... Ndiaye on your list? No, I didn't think so. 2nd highest number of tackles by any Everton player so far this season.

I'm not saying he's the best player every game but he's far from the worst; imo, he's an valuable member of the squad.

Which of course is always welcome on ToffeeWeb.

Also, pass completion stats tend to make me smile in a world where little passes around the back, to rhe side, and front and back are king.

I'd love to see the pass completion rate for Gana or anyone else for passes longer than say 12 yards.

Patric Hardly slaughters Gana. In fact, anybody reading his article (properly) will see it is written with a degree of affection and admiration.

The general premise of the article is that Moyes has not given a tired 36-year-old servant rest while he has had other exciting options. Is that even contestable?

In what way is that derogatory of a player who will be 37 this year? The point is a very relevant one and worth discussing — preferably without the hysteria.

These comments remind me a bit of those threads where people scream about other posters "hating" upon Moyes when a quick butchers down the posts will reveal he hasnt even been criticised.

The strawman is alive and kicking.

You or I could spend a game passing accurately to the nearest man. That doesnt make either of us Michel Platini.

The only people who will be impressed by those stats will be the stattos.

But, like Patric and Darren @ (35) say, it would have been wise to give him a break since he came back instead of playing every game.

Gana needs a break. He is most certainly this season below his performances last season. We need to explore other options as an extension would be wrong.

I go back to the Forest game and remember that the only time I've seen Dibling show the necessary enthusiasm was at Forest when he was playing in front of the much maligned Patterson

I thought to myself, “How the fuck have you just got your head down and got on with the game, covering two-thirds of the whole right flank for O'Brien, Iliman?”

Ian Bennet - 1 key pass - fucking brilliant, 1 key pass in 97 minutes. Was it less than 12 yards?

If Gana gets his extension we need to talk seriously about TFG and Saint Daniel the Absent and Saint Angus the Silent.

Patric's article about McNeil was balanced, and so is this one. Use the squad, give a veteran player rest - hardly controversial and also correct.

Patric's two articles also reference certain wrong decisions by the manager, which is what really triggers Rob, Mike P, Eric, Neil and usually Kevin.

Hypersensitivity to the sniff of criticism of the sainted David. I am beginning to worry it is a medical condition.

Everton U21s vs Burnley U21s, kicks off at 4 pm on Monday afternoon.

Get that iPad charged up and ready to rock and roll!!!

He has got us into 8th (at the moment)playing anti football.16 goals in 13 home games scored.

For some that appears enough,not for me.

I want to watch a team manager that has a "how do we win this "attitude,rather than a "how do we not lose this" approach.

The sooner he is gone the better imo

You sum up Gana perfectly, the guy has been absolutely brilliant in both his stints here and at 36 puts some younger players to shame. I do agree since he has come back from the AFCON he has looked a yard short of were he normally is. I also think the AFCON has also had an effect on Ndaiye as he seems to tire in the 2nd half of games since he has come back. I am sure that next season will be Gana,s last. With Africa producing some very good footballers and Senegal a main contributor, I hope we can use Gana as an Ambassador to suss out young African players,

Everybody eventually comes to the end of their playing career at the top flight, but he has been a terrific player and I hope we can get someone as good.

He might actually want to play! 😱

Sadly there are some on here who think they are better than PL managers, especially regarding Moyes.

The guys who defend Moyes do not pretend to be football managers or know more than the guys in charge.

Thats the difference.

Everton FC have in general bog standard players, decent on a day, but not consistent, something that separates good or great players from the rest.

A manager can only do a job with what he has in front of him, know one can turn water into wine.

The club need to invest in a better quality of player, if the manager cannot produce the goods when he has them, then you can have a moan.

Dewesbury Hall - 0
Ndiaye - 2
George - 0
Garner - 2
Gana - 1

27 out of 30 passes in the opposition half is also very decent. If you can't keep the ball, then you can't really do anything. You or Darren can belittle his stats all you want, but he miss-passed it 4 times all game.

Gana's drop-off is becoming a problem

That was the title. Gana isn't a problem, he is currently a better midfielder than Rohl or Iroegbunam. In fact, he remains one of the better performing midfielders in the Premier League and our squad despite his age.

To me, you get rid of problems. But I don't see that at all. I think you need Iroegbunam and Rohl to work harder to take his shirt. There can be a natural rejig of the pecking that maintains squad strength when that happens, and the weakest one is moved on. That's how we progress.

Patric is cute enough not to totally throw him under the bus, but some of what is put in there isn't right either, and I make no bones about picking them out.

Instead, Moyes has, essentially, flogged him. The gaps in midfield were there against Leeds, Brighton, Fulham (in the first half especially) and Bournemouth.

What gaps were these then against Bournemouth? They had 2 big chances all game, both from crosses, that our goalkeeper and defenders didn't deal with. He got caught the wrong side of the ball for the sending off in 97 minutes from an attack that broke down, but it was O'brien's mess.

How many other times was he leaving gaps? Who else were leaving gaps for that moment -- Garner, Mykolenko, Armstong? Or are we just singling out a 36-year-old because it's an easier target?

But time waits for no man and Gueye's numbers are drastically down from last season. And that isn't just because Everton are playing differently.

There are more factors in play here than him just being a year older. The team are playing totally differently, and his team mates in Garner and Dewsbury-Hall are doing more of the workload vs the players available last season.

Never mind him having to mop up Jack Harrison losing the ball at every touch vs Grealish actually keeping the ball.

The implication that he is finished is for the birds. He has just won the Afcon, which is one of the most physically demanding competitions in world football. I doubt Rohl or Iroegbunam could have played and won at that level.

Moyes is still far too reluctant to trust his squad. Before this round of fixtures, no Premier League team had made fewer substitutes than Everton. And we are starting to see why that becomes an issue.

Hello, gallery. Gees, for a fair chunk of the season, Moyes has had limited options because of injuries, suspensions, Afcon and the poor form of the supporting cast. Moyes is being moaned at because he invariably knows his best 11 in trying to win football matches.

In a season where we are playing 41 games, I don't fucking blame him. They are hardly playing 65+ games like any successful club. The constant call to play players that aren't at the same level as the starting 11, under represents the drop-off in quality that most, if not all, would bring in.

Gueye does not deserve to be flogged. He does not deserve to be facing criticism. Because he can still be invaluable. But Everton need to have a succession plan. He may well not even be here next season, and it is doing nobody any good to keep pushing him to the brink.

Again playing to the galleries with the word "flogged".

There was nothing to suggest with 10 men that he was being flogged at all. He was actually doing a pretty decent job in covering, to allow Garner, Armstrong and Dewsbury-Hall to get on the ball and push for an equaliser.

And of course he should be here next season. Our squad is tiny, didn't we learn anything from December?

I also thought it was pretty crystal clear that we have a player that is already there to succeed him, and Gana is precisely the player that can be used to rest or rotate with Armstrong when that happens. The calls for a big athletic pacy midfielder to be brought in perhaps miss that we already have one -- and we don't need one to be blocking his path.

That's why I saw it not as a hatchet job on Gana, but on Moyes.

Patric obviously reads the crowd well.

Personally, I don't like the title -- I think it's wrong -- and the use of the word "flogged" is just plain daft.

And "gaps in midfield" seems a bit of an analyst's cliché too -- I blame that bloody Carragher guy and his attempts sound wise with his stop-started animated video screen.

Eric,

All done to generate clicks if I was being cynical.

Can we just drop this nonsense please.

Articles are written about contemporary Everton issues, and provide various perspectives from different authors. It's more about keeping the site active on a daily basis, which I appreciate because I think that's important for readers, even if they don't exactly agree with everything written.

If that isn't about generating traffic then what is?

I think everyone will agree that the site is a lot different in content than when you and Lyndon ran it. A few quality articles a week that generated a lot of debate.

Whereas now? A lot of generically similar articles that don't get many responses, hence the need to generate more.

In his first decade plus as our manager his average goals for was 44 per 38 game season.

Has he never managed good players?

I can't understand why Moyes played him against Bournemouth, three days after he played against Fulham. It would have made more sense to play Armstrong in midfield, instead of playing him out of position on the wing.

He spent over £100M on players to turn water into wine.

Care to tell us the average goals per season for all the other managers since Moyes?

And the Premier League positions we finished in?

Or did he have to sell our better players to bring in others? e.g. Rooney.

He still had the final word on the £110M worth of players.
He got just over £10M back on Chermiti and Maupay, so just the £100M to improve the team.

The £110M I refer to was last summer 2025 spending.

More importantly, has Moyes considered players who might want to play? Like Patterson, Alcaraz McNeil and Rhol who have hardly played this season.

Added to the seven changes he made in the Wolves League Cup tie, including four players who had hardly kicked a ball all season, he then tried to rescue the game with his regulars but conceded another goal instead.

Changing a winning team, putting a player who is poor at full-back in that position, instead of a player who is a full-back... etc, etc.

Moyes is a very good manager for those who like but only a very mediocre manager for those who are a bit fussy and want a manager who wants to try and win games — especially the important ones -- semi finals and finals... cancel that -- one final.

Pickford - England international,
O'Brien - Republic of Ireland international,
Mykolenko - Ukrainian international,
Tarkowski - been capped by England,
Brainthwaite - England Under-21 international, who if he can get over his injuries and get playing regularly will possibly become the best English central defender around.

We had Gueye and Ndiaye, just back from becoming Champions of Africa, playing alongside a player many describe as the signing of the season, Dewsbury-Hall

And a kid who has been capped at every level bar senior who is knocking on Tuchel's door, plus another kid making his debut, who can't break through at Chelsea, but has also been playing for England Under-21s.

Then we had a French Under-21 International leading the line, who was replaced by Beto!

If that isn't about generating traffic then what is?

I think there's a substantial difference between posting clickbait headlines that talk about players without naming them, purely as a cynical trick to force traffic, and having purpose-written articles about Everton where we always make it clear in the headline who or what the story is about, and that it is written for Evertonians?

None of those players you have listed would have played in the Everton team during the 1980s.

During an international manager's term, you will find they select a large number of players, its trial and error, something a club side does not have that luxury available to it.

I started watching Everton in the days of Peter Farrell, Jimmy Etherington etc. I reiterate, Everton at present have bog standard players and, until they go and purchase a better class of player, they are unlikely to win any trophy.

27 passes out of thirty ??? Is that the case for the prosecution or the defence. Given the risk aversion nature of the passes he attempted. Anyone watching the game would be well within their rights to ask how the fuck he managed to misplace 3 of them.

You've really gone for what is essentially a pertinent and very well balanced article, which leads me to believe you think there is a ready made gallery of Gana haters. I wonder where they have all been hiding ?

"Flogging" is a term used in all forms of life. we all know what it means. I don't for one minute believe Patric was playing to a mystery gallery, by implying that Moyes chases on to the pitch with a cat o nine tails.

You also seem outraged by the suggestion that Gana leaves gaps. Are you really suggesting he doesnt ? Take a look at what Tony A says in his second paragraph post 22. He's bang on the money. Tony doesnt suggests its all Gana's fault that we often have huge gaping holes in our ranks, but given that everyone of us knows our defenders are uncomfortable pushing up. you have to question Gana's wisdom when he goes off solo hunting.

Gana is far from being perfect but he is a very popular player coming to the end of a great career. This article simply paves the way for discussion about that.

You sound pretty keen it would be outraged by "Yet more negativity" but it would be far more negative to bury your head in the sand and pretend it isn't happening

Ferguson was obviously blessed with better players, not the bog standard shite poor David has to deal with at Everton. I remember reading about the wisdom of Ferguson when he told Giggs and Scholes that they wouldn't be playing as much because of their age.

"Don't worry, you won't play as much but, because you have have always had so much ability, which will now go alongside the massive experience you have acquired along the way, then at least you will both be able to give me about 25 games of real quality each."

Given his age, then I'd say Gueye was luckily suspended before the Afcon, although Moyes changed a winning team to bring him back for the one game remaining before he left for the tournament, and he has put him right back into the team as soon as the tournament finished.

He obviously thinks he needs him in his team even though we did okay without him, especially in the games at Forest... and even more especially at Villa when I thought we played with a lot more discipline than we usually have for a lot of the games we have played this season.

Indeed, a site that has been transformed in recent times ought to be soliciting feedback from its members to see how it is doing. At the risk of expressing an opinion, I agree with Eric that one of the main aims of the large - huge? - increase in articles is 'to generate clicks if I was being cynical'. Others agree. A fair number, sadly, have voted with their feet.

The irony - and this would have been inconceivable in the olden days - is that there are a good number of articles with hardly any response at all.

Are you not troubled MK by the number of members who no longer or rarely post on here, including some influential figures, or the number of articles that do not generate discussion?

'Young George Pickford signs new deal with the Blues' - great news - would not have been an article three years ago. It would have been under 'club news' or something similar.

Perhaps it might be an idea for the editorial team to accept that the transition, in my opinion, has not been as smooth as it might have been. Perhaps the team could consult its loyal members with a series of questions to get their advice/opinions on what this site is doing well and what could be improved.

I have to do this on a regular basis and it's a good thing.

(I now read Rob and Ell on Evertonia.)

Very fair post Paul, I know Darren, can be very argumentative but I wrote that I thought he should be on wages the other day, because I think his return to ToffeeWeb, has definitely made things a lot more interesting and has probably coincided with its mini-revival, although I think Michael, answered me in his roundabout way by saying he was fed up with the repetitive arguments.

See post 1

You also seem outraged by the suggestion that Gana leaves gaps. Are you really suggesting he doesn't?

I am disappointed that people see him as a problem.

I said in the Bournemouth game he didn't leave gaps. I made no other comment if he does, or whether that's a very outdated view. I don't have a strong opinion either way when he is with Garner and Dewsbury-Hall, to be honest. I think I've seen less, but that probably reflects the mobility upgrade of players around him. But my point above was vs Bournemouth.

You sound pretty keen it would be outraged by "Yet more negativity"

I didn't think it was necessary.

We have 6 good quality centre mids, with 5 that have plenty in the tank. The old hand able to support them though. That is a better article, it reflects that there might be a plan in a key area of the pitch.

"Flogging" is a term used in all forms of life. We all know what it means. I don't for one minute believe Patric was playing to a mystery gallery, by implying that Moyes chases on to the pitch with a cat o nine tails.

Thanks, I read this a couple of times. I am still chuckling of wtf.

If you don't want your stats to be "belittled" stop trying to use them to strengthen what is essentially an already weak argument.

Your opinion.

Most reasonable people will accept those stats for the Bouremouth game to be good, when they compare to other players, other results, other Premier League players.

Midfielders don't have 100% passing accuracy, they don't create loads and loads of killer passes in the match. If that's your bar, no wonder you're disappointed most of the time.

Look at any decent midfield 3 and how they play. At least one will be there just to keep the midfield ticking over. Most sides make relatively simple passes. It isn't much different here.

It's obvious that we will have great difficulty in getting a European place due to the lack of a consistent striker, so Moyes should be ready to start others now to get them the experience they need.

John#59, sorry, I misunderstood.

Dave #60, as much as they might want to play, Moyes obviously doesn't think they are better than who he picks. Isn't it about 'playing your best team' which was the lament of the Wolves game you mention?

Patric mentioned several games. it was you who chose to focus on just one game. its pretty obvious why.

You say you didnt think the article was necessary, but if we only got necessary articles. which you agreed with We'd all be staring at a blank screen. The guy has given his opinion, created a talking point. Isnt that his job ?

As for your stats ? Do you really think anybody other than a statto would accept those stats ? do they even add up ?

Ask 20 Evertonians to describe the difference between "defensive contributions" and "Recoveries" and you are very likely to get 20 different answers. and were are the numer of tackles ? did he not make any ?. And if he got on the ball 73 times. how come he only made 57 passes. What did he do with it the other 16 times ?

Sorry, but if you are looking to bring stats as a definitive argument. I'm the very last person to bring them to. You see I know Barry isn't a 4 in 5 man. I know Beto isn't a 5 in 6 man and I know the stat about Barry winning the most headers of a ball is utterly meaningless if he cant find a blue shirt with it.

I know you didnt raise those other stats, but they have all been put up here recently and because I study football as opposed to stats. I know the ones you present are equally meaningless.

You talk about most people accepting your stats but most people will be aware that the guy who always plays the safe pass will end up with a better passing accuracy than the guy who tries to create. He wants fucking if he doesnt.

BTW. I don't have a "bar" for Gana. I understand his role I'm certainly not disappointed in him "most of the time". perhaps thats just something else you made up to be outraged about ?

If Patric posts something I disagree with in future I will most certainly challenge them. But on this particular article. I think its fair and I would take everyone of his points over yours.

I thought Moyes had a near full-strength squad to pick from but still he made very few subs.

I wish Moyes would use more of his squad players but it's all about playing his best team, even when certain players are struggling. Some people understand his reasoning; a lot of others don't.

One thing that I'm beginning to understand more than the blind loyalty I've always had towards Everton is that I should be going the match because I enjoy it... but the entertainment value is currently very fucking poor.

I also see Chermiti, that player we sold to Rangers for £8M after paying £11.5M, just scored his first hat-trick. Everton that.

Posters should be allowed to express opinions without them being called 'nonsense' by an editor

Eric said All done to generate clicks --- that is simply not true, and therefore fully merits the description 'nonsense' because it is nonsense. We don't write stories to generate clicks.

The site should be soliciting feedback from its members to see how it is doing.

We get plenty of feedback, Paul, as you well know, and that clearly indicates how we are doing. We are not under any illusions. But our preference is to get on with reporting about Everton matters and issues, all with the facility for readers to comment and discuss if they wish.

The increase in articles is to generate clicks.

The increase in the number of articles is to expand our coverage of current Everton matters; the increase in the range of authors provides a diversity of material for people to read, and there are more alternative approaches for presenting and analysing certain topics. I would hope most of our readers appreciate that without necessarily feeling compelled to comment.

There are a good number of articles with hardly any responses at all.

There are some topics that simply do not generate much interest. For example, for me personally, I have no interest in the women's game and never write about it or read about it. But there is a broader interest among the editorial team to include this in our expanded Everton coverage. We get very few responses (perhaps not that many "clicks"...) but we still put the articles up for people to read.

Other examples would be the Academy U18s and U21s, who I am very interested in and I do write about. But the level of interest among our readership is very low, as indicated by the limited responses on these threads. If it really was "all about clicks" as you and Eric maintain, then why on earth would I be wasting my time with all that Academy stuff?

Are you not troubled by the number of members who no longer or rarely post on here?

The way we did the last transition, with no explanation, was clearly a mistake. The whole betting thing is an unfortunate fact of our new life that we've gone over a thousand times but it's not going away. I fully understand that is probably the major thing that drove a lot of people away.

But the main essence of the day-to-day Everton stuff remains, and has been expanded. To be perfectly frank, I don't think your low opinion of some of the articles is going to carry much weight, I'm afraid. The various authors we have are going to largely continue what they have been doing in terms of generating new content. Not for "clicks" but to provide a good flow of material about Everton for our readers. If it generates discussion, all well and good. If it doesn't, so what? That's not the primary aim.

It would have been under 'club news' or something similar.

One of the casualties of the last transition is that we don't have such an effective split between Club News, Rumour Mill, On the Web, Fan Articles, etc. I've been trying to get this classification re-established but I don't think it is going to happen any time soon. So everything appears under Headline News at the moment. Otherwise, you wouldn't see it on the homepage.

Perhaps the team could consult its loyal members with a series of questions to get their advice and opinions on what this site is doing well and what could be improved.

There's already a huge list of issues from the transition that we can't get fixed in a timely fashion, unfortunately, the Edit button being a prime example. The most effective way for them to contribute their advice and opinions is to submit articles of their own, about Everton stuff that interests them and what they want to talk about. Let's all get back to doing that, can we?

Not something that you might be concerned with on a fan level but I'm sure the site owners know this.

So in my opinion that is the reason for so many minor articles rather than the in-depth articles Lyndon writes.

I think that a lot of people will appreciate that you for took the time to put this together.

Also, why did we boom off Chermiti for buttons and keep fucking Beto!!! Chermiti just banged a hat-trick for Rangers and looked the part when he started against the shite last season at Mordor.

That's a very smart and insightful point about AI running the site and, reluctantly, I have to admit that the last sentence is subtle and well constructed.

It could be that if we kept Chermiti... (and Calvert-Lewin?) he (they) would've been just another Barry & Beto, albeit crap in a different-ish way.

Beto is okay one-on-one. Barry is okay when he isn't falling over his own feet -- a deft touch. Calvert-Lewin heads well and when fit leads the line well. Chermiti, not that I've seen a lot, only seems to score in big games... not the worst thing ever. But maybe points to attitude?

And not one goal in 25 appearances for us, although his total time on the pitch was only around 200 minutes.

Two goals at Celtic Park but he still got hammered by Rangers fans midweek after the Motherwell game. Let's see how he gets on from here.

I thought that £8M was decent business but Rangers fans did not think that.

Apologies.

Our midfield is an elephant in the room atm. Everyone is focusing on the obvious. Full-backs, etc.

The midfield has been crap for years, built to defend and contain.

Gana has been crap since long before Afcon.

think Rohl and Iroegbunem need to work harder to earn a shirt.

No they can work as hard as they like and perform to a high level but they still won't get the shirt.

OBrien can perform as well as he likes at central defence but he still won't dislodge Tarks no matter how the latter plays.

Patterson can perform as well as he likes against United but you know that OBrien will come straight back in.

The only shirts that can be won are one of the wing positions and the centre forward, the rest are set in stone.

Gees for a fair chunk of the season Moyes was beset with injuries suspensions and Afcon.

iThe reality is that was only from the 20th December to the 26th January. Every team in the league lost players through Afcon and many squads have been hit with injuries far harder than us.

Moyes is being moaned at because he knows his best eleven in trying to win football matches.

No he is being moaned at because many of the matches he has won is when he is forced rather than chooses to change. For example Palace, Bournemouth, Fulham and Villa. He is being moaned at because there were many more matches to be won where we worry about the opposition and where he changes a winning formula with negative impact. Something like promising then he goes straight back to his default setting.

As for my opinion on Gana I think the system is the problem which takes away from both Gana and Garner while Dewsbury Hall is also affected because his strength is running from deep and hasn't the vision to play the role asked. I personally think Garner has been as bad as Gana in the midfield when paired together as they are both doing the same job, lose authority and play with restriction.

Many of our best midfield performances and wins have come when Garner or Gueye has been out because the balance is all wrong.. when Garner has played right back we haven't missed him in midfield yet when Gana is missing it seems like James has had a worldie every game and makes you think you think it would be insanity to leave him out.

My view is that the players need to play with Garner screening and letting him thrive on the responsibility of being the midfield general. Then having Garna and Dewsbury Hall as two eights box to box. This would also help getting our two widemen further forward and playing like wide strikers as opposed to them often playing like midfielders.

You are correct by the way about the near complete lack of interest on here of the Academy teams, sometimes it’s like you and me having a private conversation although the merits of Braiden Graham did allow for a long thread.

Is the Burnley game today at home or away?

You couldn't make it up.

I liked your post about Garner and Gueye, effectively playing the same game, especially after reading what Jimmy, had written about our midfield being built to defend for years, because the first thought I had after reading Jimmy’s post, was to remember how well our midfield played at Villa.

We had imo, a little bit of everything that day, plus the added bonus that it looked like the combination of players selected, actually knew each other’s roles?

If you are looking for the greatest irony. look no further than post 51.

MK criticising somebody else's headline and choice of words.

A nailed on certainty for this years pot kettle and black award.

Can somebody PLEASE open that window

Patric has written an article that is mildly critical of the manager's rotation policy because that is his opinion?

Only in the last month has there been articles questioning managerial decision making. Every Everton manager should receive praise where it's due and critique where it's merited. It should also reflect the good and the bad on the pitch. There have been systematic problems all season yet none have addressed this with endless stats based articles presenting a picture that we are creating a lot of chances when the evidence is to the contrary.

Certainly if you want to have a go at Michael for being over critical of the manager then you could have validity but any other of the writers on here, do me a favour.

After the mental and physical exertion that brings to be thrust into 3 matches in a week at his age well I'm sure Patric has every right to think that's ludicrous.

I didn't have a go at Michael over criticism of the manager at all.

And as for the previous traffic the site before the takeover wasn't an (obviously) monetised site.

I bracket obviously 'cos of course LL and MK would like to make money from it but they are 'one of us' not a faceless corporation that can't even be bothered to sort out an Edit function.

It works both ways.

I post regularly pointing out his deficiencies.

Two sides of the same coin?

I don't criticise or defend tactics etc because, like all the posters on here that think they know better than Moyes, I know fuck all... but I know that I know fuck all.

Quite a few will know better than Moyes, certainly when it comes to setting a positive, front-foot attacking team up. David doesn't really go in for that type of thing.

If the manager doesn't enjoy them, then how can he positively cajole his players? And if his team can't be cajoled, then what about those poor suffering fans?

"You haven't won a trophy for 30 fucking years" -- sang those dirty horrible kopites, so what did David do in our very next fixture, after lying down for most of the first half at Anfield? Make six or was it seven fucking changes for a cup-tie.

You posted Moyes doesn't play teenagers, I posted a list of 18 he played in his first 11 years with us plus some other youths (U21s).

CHÚC MỪNG NĂM MỚI

Eric, that's the point, they don't. But will still have a greater knowledge when it comes to attacking football. It's a given if one manager doesn't consider attacking football as part of his armoury. If you don't, and never have, advocated attacking football, you cant have a decent knowledge in attacking football.

It's like saying all the trades are in the house building game, so get the electrician to plaster that wall.

They were displaying the shirts of some of their most famous players. This included Arteta, Xavi Alonso and Ariola who all went on to be managers; both Arteta and Alonso also had Premier League careers.

I just didn't catch the name of the club. Does anybody know the name of the club they all played for?

There were 18 teenagers on that list and exactly 0, nil, nada, zilch, fuck all, 23-year-olds.

Leon Osman?

Now at rellies for pre-countdown drinks.

If my memory is correct, I'm sure the final was played at Sociadad's old ground and I can still remember one of the lads spewing up all over the concrete seats.

After asking Archie Gemmill what time the curfew was, the angry little bastard (who was even angrier because we dipped) replied, "You can come in with the fucking milkman, for all I care!" -- which is exactly what most of us ended up doing.

It's the Basque region, ETA and IRA Ulzter, was graffitied everywhere, but you couldn't fault the people or the night out!

Mikel Arteta, Andoni Iraola and Xabi Alonso shaped by amateur youth club Antiguoko in prolific Basque Country

Eric, I don't wish to dwell on this as I had already made my point before; however, there was only one article which spoke about our first half malaise in 6 months.

We had comparisons with Dyche at a low ebb, the first ten games comparisons, how he has improved us, and how all these players were creating so many chances etc. They are all there.

We have been among the lowest scorers, shots on target etc and most of all attacking metrics for most of the season. We have been poor on set pieces scored, one of the worst from goals from crosses etc -- but not one article has mentioned this despite the stats-based approach to articles.

Eric, you and I have our biases and so will the writers but I have never seen any manager get such a free ride on here nor acknowledge blatant failings on the pitch until recently.

But it's not just ToffeeWeb which has been culpable. Moyes gets a total free pass on his pre-match conferences, totally different to his predecessors. He brings a coffee and chats with his friends and with Julia Bould, who asks questions fans want to hear, he tries to make her uncomfortable to do so. When he loses, he becomes totally beligerant to the media.

Even with the fans, he thinks he is above them... refusing to give details about injuries and when they will return, yet he doesn't get questioned on this. Not to mention that he wants to win the cup games because it's important to the fans as it clearly isn't important to him. His job doesn't depend on it.

Eric, of course fans will respond how they feel and debate it, that's healthy. I wasn't implying you said anything about Michael but my point was that he is the only one who until recently critiques what he sees.

Great story, mate. Archie was actually one of my favourite players back in the day but, like you said, I could actually imagine him being a bit of a Noah's Ark.

But remember that goal in 1978, against the Dutch, one of the all-time classics.

Life is mad, my old roommate mate Gary Charles, who ended up being an alcoholic, never drank at this stage of his life. When he got off about midnight, I said to him, "Do us a favour, lad, when you have opened the room door, go back downstairs and leave the key in the reception so I don't have to wake you up later.

We had a really good night, and I can remember Mark Crossley, who does the Clough stories, trying to get us into a nightclub, doing the ball shape, with his hands, and telling them we played for Nottingham Forest, in his big daft Yorkshire accent. (It was funny, and became a standing joke for a few years.)

Got back to the hotel about 5 am, I got my key from reception and luckily for me the landing was pitch fucking black. Honestly, Gemmill was in a room about three doors down and, just as I was getting to my room door, he came out of his room screaming at a few Australian tourists, who must have been staying on the same landing.

I froze, when I heard a Scottish accent screaming "Will you fuckin shut up, you Australian bastards!" and waited for him to slam his door before I dared open mine.

Next morning, one of the coaches asked me what time I got home? "About twelve o'clock with Charlsey," I said, smiling.

A couple of weeks later, Liam O'Kane, was praising Crossley after training (he never used to like either of us, although I'm sure this changed for Big Norm, once he became a first team player) and said, "You have got to change your attitude and be like him (meaning me) if you want to become a footballer, son. Fucking standing outside nightclubs at 3 o'clock in the morning, shouting 'Nottingham Forest, football,' you big fuckin idiot, whilst this kid was in bed for 12 o'clock!"

His face nearly gave me away, and when he asked me, "How the fuck did you get him to believe you was in bed for midnight?" I remember saying, "Because I'm a scouser, aren't I -- not a big dosy divi from Barnsley."

A fuckn lot of good being a scouser did me in the end though!

Here is an extract.

“Yet the season-wide trends also show a fundamental shift.

Garner's off-the-ball numbers have spiked, to the point where he leads the league in certain areas. He is second to Tottenham Hotspur's Joao Palhinha for tackles. Only Bournemouth's Marco Senesi and Moises Caicedo of Chelsea are ahead of him for interceptions, while among midfielders only Wolverhampton Wanderers' Joao Gomes and Elliot Anderson of Forest have made more ball recoveries.

Everton midfielders do have to get through a lot of work. While Moyes has been keen to see his team hold a greater share of possession, leading to a rise of three per cent in their average share in games this season, that still only places them 16th across the league compared to 19th in 2024-25. Even in that context, Garner's numbers are impressive.

Gueye, meanwhile, has seen a drop-off in his figures — even when accounting for his participation in AFCON. He made the most tackles in the league last season but has seen his per-90-minutes average nearly halved this term (3.9 to 2.1).”

The article shows a higher proportion of Gueye's touches are coming further forward this season. This means Garner sitting deeper too as a No 6, to mop up, but it leaves the older Gueye with more ground to cover when attacks break down. The article concludes that Everton should switch from a 4-2-3-1 to 4-3-3 to allow the midfield to alternate going forward, and take the load off Gueye.

Which is exactly the point that Patric made in his article above before the kneejerk apologists piled in to criticise him and any posters who agreed: “You've got this so wrong. And some of the comments that piled in, after, are equally as piss poor."

That comment hasn't aged well.

That sums the manager's football philosophy up for me.

But the Search function on this site is now marginally worse than the Edit function.

Even with those who admire or like Moyes, there is usually a “but” after they admit it.

A simple telling off would be enough. :-)