Couldn't agree more that we missed Fellaini, but the big problem on Sunday will be the Gerrard and Allen vs Neville and Osman midfield battle and Fellaini being up front wont help there. If he's fit enough to play he has got to be played as a CM, with either Mirallas or preferably Naismith up alongside Jelavic.

G & A will tear apart N & O so some how we need to replace preferably Neville (to full back) with Fellaini.

If we go into the match without Gibson (and he has no chance of being fit after 6 weeks out) , Fellaini and Pineaar then the best we can hope for is again back to the "Dogs of War" and counter on the break as we will never get control of midfield.

You just know we are gonna fuck up on Sunday. I would play Hitzsleperger in the middle ahead of Neville, no matter how fit he is, play him for an hour.

Like you though mate, I pray Feillanis fit.

Agree with Mike Oates. Unless something very strange happens I cannot see Neville and Osman winning that midfield battle and I would expect RS to have the vast majority of possession.

As much as everyone on here is saying we should go for it and really go at them I can't help feeling that if we do that Suarez and Sterling will destroy us on the counter. I reckon we stay organised, press them hard in our half and try to catch them on the break with Oviedo and Mirallas on the wings...but who knows. Either way, don't think its going to be fun to watch.

If he's fit, stick him upfront. We had no out ball against rangers with 10 or 11 men.

So basically we're back to lets boot it long to his head tactics? Have they ever worked before in a derby? Allen and Gerrard haven't torn anyone apart in midfield this year. We clearly don't have the worst midfield in the league otherwise we wouldn't be 4th. If Gibson plays all is good but I'm guessing he won't. If we just sit back however and pump it long to Fellaini then we will get overrun as usual. Our best bet is to force Sterling and Suso back defending with Baines and Coleman leaving Suarez isolated against Ditin and Jagielka. If Fellaini can do to Allen what Cahill did to Britton at the Liberty last season then they should start getting erratic with it from the back. In past derbies they used to be the 6 foot plus monsters and could just choke us out of games. I don't think it will happen this time and our greater goal threat may just count in our favour. (Although as ever if Gibson, Fellaini and Pienaar were all fit and available we wouldn't have half of these problems or be nearly as worried, but I guess our best 11 v their best 11 just once is too much to ask for in 10 years isn't it)

James, the ball wouldn't stick up front and that has to happen before baines and coleman etc can get forward. I don't think this is hoof ball when he brings it down and plays men in and buys us territory.

Suso, sterling and wisdom are all going to be new to the game as well. We need to play high tempo, maintain 11 on the pitch, and have a focal point that buys jelavic space to lurk. Sahin and Allen are good players, but let's rattle them in a high octane derby on our patch.

Fellaini to me is not the key man for Saturday, if Gibson is fit then we are on to a good thing. On Sunday the middle of the park is going to be a rough house, Shelvey and Gerraaarrd v Osman and Neville. I am fucking laughing as I type this as that looks like a tag team match from hell.

As with every derby the first tackle sets the tone - so basically with no Gibson we looked fucked, as a matter of fact Neville needs some man-up pills before kick off and he got to put the boot in - fuck whatever card he may get as a result, otherwise Shelvey and the Ge-man will be dishing it out to all and sundry.

I'd be more confident if Cahill and Carsley were playing than any of other midfielders to be honest. Limited in technique as they might have been they could both put it about which seems to coount for more in a derby than any measure of skill.

With all the talk of what midfielders might play, won't play, and who we wish we had back to play, here is a thought...

Hitzlsperger hammer anyone?

I'm not convinced that Fellaini will be ready for Sunday and even if Gibson is technically fit will he be match sharp enough to deal with the frenetic pace of a derby?

Maybe any chance of subtlety and craft will have to be replaced by some physicality and graft. If people really think Coleman was that bad as RB in the QPR game (personally thought he was okay apart from one glaring mistake) why not use his energy in the centre of the park? Push Ossie up behind Jelavic and use Mirallas and someone else with pace as the wide men. Neville to right back and Heitinga in CM, or Jagielka to RB, Heitinga with Distin, and Neville stays in CM.br />
Not exactly a homage to the beautiful game I know, but the way things are going we don't have too many options for giving them something to think about in the centre of the park.

I know Davy won't listen to my advice so I just pray he has a road to Dasmascus thingy about the stupidity of playing Osman in a derby.
Surely to God we have another midfielder who does not completely disappear when the whistle blows.
Fer Christ sake Davy should the situation demand do not dither, use your subs.
Divine intervention to one side, and despite missing Fellaini, Pienaar, Gibson and Hibbert we ought be good enough to beat that other mobs load of kids and over rated chancers.

I was already concerned before the Rangers game, and so it seems was Moyes. Bit of a throw of the dice sticking Pienaar in the middle. It did not work at all, especially as Osman and Neville looked so lightweight. We need Gibson and Felli back asap.

But if one is missing, I reckon we'll cope, but if both are out as well as Pienaar, of course, it's gonna be a tough afternoon. We will have to think again, and look at either Heitinga or the Hitz alongside Osman. If he can play like his name, then go with that.

I want Mirallas out on the right, (if we use Anichebe, I'd rather him up with Jela, as he can't or won't do the right side) leaving one of Gueye or Oviedo to deputise for Pienaar. And then just hope they can make half the understanding Pienaar has with Baines. The derby has defo come at the wrong time. Bollox!

As opposed to the stupidity of NOT playing Osman when we are so light on midfielders Dick?

Fellaini I hear is is fit and plays advanced, Piennar is banned and if Gibbo doesnt make it the other option is the fella who has just proved his fitness to earn a contract till the end of Jan.

Please enlighten with that wonderfully perceptive football brain of your Dick..........who do you suggest to fill the midfield 5 minus Osman?

I think it will be a good bet that Fellaini will play on Sunday, Moyes has done it before with Cahill and Jagielka, and he seems in good shape.
Gibson has been training also I hear, along with Hibbert being a certainty also. But I'm not saying for a second that Gibson will be in the squad, it may be possibility, we just have to wait for Friday.

I do think though that it would be a daft decision to stick Hitzlsperger in the middle of the field. (Away clash at Fulham sounds like a better idea for that.)
Moyes will probably want to stick Neville in again, especially as it's the derby, replacing him with Heitinga is the wrong move I think, it will make it too defensive.

But realistically what other options do we have? I won't be surprised if Hibbert starts at RB.

Bobby T @962, I have no idea what practical football experience you may have yet I challenge you to list the attributes that Osman brings to the game. To make it easy for you just answer yes or no to the following.

1. his speed .......,
2. his strength in the tackle .......,
3. his powerful shot .....,
4. his stamina over 90 minutes .... ,
5. his presence ......

Can you tell me when he made any kind of impact in a derby?

The above questions if truthfully answered provide ample reason why I would rather have anyone other than Osman in our midfield this Sunday.

Is it only me who is sick of seeing our team in important games playing with 10 men?

We need Tim Cahill

With Pienaar missing we will need Ossie's creativity and ball retention qualities. He's a certainty to start anyway so we may as well give him our support! I think Hibbo is also likely to play to counteract Sterling. I think it'll be...

Howard, Hibbo, Distin, Jags, Baines, Mirallas (left), Ossie, Neville, Fellaini, Naismith (right) Jelavic.

I wouldn;t be too surprised to see Coleman playing right instead of Naismith though. If they want to keep playing it from the back we need to press them. I think it'll be 2-1 with mirallas and jelavic netting.

Erm........I will assume you cant name a mid then Dick.

Dick change the record please.

We are not a one man team and Ossie pulls his tripe out for the cause.

IMO True scouse blues are needed for Sunday and that includes Hibbo and Ossie and although Neville's lega are gone he will be important in a big game.

I believe the lads will be up for this and look forward to a solid win with the fans right behind the TEAM.

Ossie isn't physical, he's smart. If he were a better athlete, he would be playing for Barca. His brains in centre mid are essential to the squad.

I do think Fellaini is key. I also think Pienaar, Hibbo and Gibson are vital. We just need to bully them off the ball. We certainly have more technical prowess than Stoke but we need to have Stoke's attitude. We are clearly the better side with or without our 4 injuries. Moyes is vastly better at managing than Rodgers and we have more all round quality. I'm confident that we'll outplay them and earn a victory... before having it taken away for some unimaginable reason. That seems to be the pattern anyway.

Right if we get Fellaini back, what do you reckon about:

Howard
Coleman Jags Distin Baines
Mirellas Heitinga Neville Ovideo
Jella Fellaini

subs: Naismith, Osman, Vic

Tactics when defending let Neville and Heitinga get stuck right in Dogs of War style and in attack either use the flanks or big clearances, bypassing the midfield and run off the Big Man.

What do you reckon?

#969 - Haha is that you 'Our Paul'? I'm typing from the mankiest room in the North Sea!

Yep Jim, and I don't think much of your midfield pairing.

Nor do I, it's horrible, that's the point. Concede the middle, nullify their's and by-pass it. Might just work ;)

With all the speculation surrounding Fellaini's departure, I've been racking my brain to think of a suitable replacement for the big guy.

One name that springs to mind is Tom Huddlestone from Tottenham. Watching Tottenham play Chelsea last week he was the only player that could hold his head high with a brilliant performance. His passing ability, his footwork, his ball control even his hair do remind me of our big midfielder. And with the Spurs midfield quality, I really think we could get him on the cheap.

I dunno, I quite like Neville there. These are the kind of derby games that he has been used to. Yeah he's been average or whatever, but until Gibson gets back, and Hitz gets some match fitness, he's our best option. Live with it.

We do also need Fellaini back. I'm not convinced in putting him back at all, not after that Leeds game. He's great at keeping the ball in the final third, which we need. Also, none of the Liverpool players are good enough to hassle him.

I think Mirallas on the left and Naismith on the right would be the wingers as well. Gueye, Oviedo and Coleman on standby.

Matthew, in what way is Huddlestone like Fellaini apart from their ridiculous haircuts? They don't play the same position.

Moyes doesn't like Fellaini in the deep role anymore and after the Leeds game we can all see why. He's not quick enough for there and doesn't have a long passing range like Gibson. He's far better at holding the ball up and laying short passes in behind the defence.

Huddlestone would be a good partner for Gibson, we'd have a slow midfield with a tendency to look overweight but at least it would be able to pass.

I still can't believe though that we've gone from putting in bids for Moutinho to partner Arteta, to talking about Tom Huddlestone...

I don't understand the obsession with Gibson. Yes, Neville has been really poor in some games and good in others (Newcastle, Swansea) but mostly I have seen Gibson when he plays spill as much ball as Neville. I know we have had good results with him in the team but I'm not convinced he is the midfield saviour many on here promote him to be.

Furthermore, as someone involved in coaching and developing young people in football, I think we give too much store to the personnel. We need to go out there with a positive attitude and play to our potential, no excuses, no inferiority complex.

They are the team who have most to lose in this game not us, so we should, as the best team on Merseyside (admittedly Tranmere are doing well now they've got James Wallace running the midfield) go out and slam them.

I'm backing us to win 2-0 with goals from Osman and Hibbert — at seven trillion to one, the kid's dinner money is on.

Coleman at right back will be a huge tactical mistake as Sterling will rip him a new hole. Anichebe is another potential mistake as his shitty attitude would leave him punching the ground with a tit lip again with Marriner highly unlikely to give him any decisions in his favour. From what I've seen, he's next to useless playing up front with Jelavic too.

For any chance of winning the game, we need to keep the ball on the floor and out-pass their midfield, play the wings and stretch their defence.

James 197.

Huddlestone is actually a talented, passing deep lying mid and Moyes has sniffed about him before. You don't rate him, fair enough. I don't think injuries have helped him.

You say Fellaini isn't quick enough to play deep lying mid? How many quick ones can you name?!

Many are converted as they arent quick enough to play anywhere else, if they were they would be!!

Often, especially these days as the clogger is dead, they have passing and reading attributes that can be used and so they are converted. Good football brains basically.

John Barnes played it when his injuries stacked up, Keane dropped deeper when his box to box game went. Alonso can barely run!! Mikel, Carrick, Makelele, Gibbo for us etc. There are some who play with "energy", Essien(pre injury), Hargreaves(again)or Parker, but none of those are quick either.

As the game goes less and less contact, its about reading the play, anticiption, interceptions and use of the ball, continuity and tempo of the team when in possession. Players with good ability and football brains can make a career there.

Some specialise and can make a team tick from there. Some specialise defensively like Busquets.

Fellaini isn't playing there as he has qualities that can be used further up the pitch to hurt teams. If he didnt hed be playing deep and has all the qualities to play there.

James,

Pirlo's not quick so he can't be a deep lying midfielder? Cmon mate.

It's not about speed, it's about reading of the game. That's why I don't think Fellaini can play there, his reading of the game ain't good enough in my opinion. He's got attributes better further up, which I'm sure you agree with.

Think Makelele and Van Bommel in the past, think Busquets now. Were they quick? No, but their reading of the game is phenomenal, so they could play there effectively.

Fellaini's lack of speed is an issue because, as Ben points out, his reading of the game in that position is woeful. Gibson and Neville aren't world-beating holding mids but they often seem to be in the right place, the ball will hit them they'll intercept passes. They know how to play holding mid, a bit like Carsley did. Fellaini doesn't, he always seems to be running after people, side to side just chasing shadows, the best holding mids barely seem to move.

If you're not one of the best then you need a load of pace to try and cover for the positional inaccuracy. Rodwell and Fellaini displayed this; all the talent in the world yet neither of them could get near a ball if it was being passed around in midfield.

The crucial difference between Pirlo, Alonso, Busquets even Gibson is that they have a great passing range. Fellaini doesn't, he can't hit crossfield balls, he's better at slipping in short ones behind the defense or laying them off after he's brought them down.

He can't pin back the opposition with his passing range in the way that Gibson and even Osman can. That's why he should play up-top and that's probably why Moyes has been playing him there all season. After his Leeds performance in holding mid, it would be a surprise to see Moyes move him back.

The Messiah vs Buck Rogers. Come on you Blues!

Messiah vs Buck Rogers. Come on u blues!