Totally agree, Kevin. Evertonians get the club they deserve.

Kevin, I've made similar points recently, albeit not in such direct language. Saturday's result was a symptom of a much deeper malaise, and that is a Board that isn't able to take the club forward, but is reluctant to let go of the club.

Now, I'm not against Bill et al getting their money back (if indeed any of their own was used to buy the shares) but they have not invested a penny into the club - and they don't need to - but it does beggar belief that they are trying to make an absolute killing out of it.

Everton's problem with new owners is pretty black and white. We aren't attractive as a vanity project as a lot of development on the stadium is required. Therefore the type of investor we need is someone who will deliver that asset improvement, and then maybe look to sell on.

I know there are only 4 CL slots (that could go down to 3 in the coming years if the UEFA co-efficient slips), but that doesn't mean there's only room for 4 Billionaire / Sovereign Wealth Fund owners. These owners have a different set of financial metrics to a more traditional business owner - it's more media value than financial return.

I know it's harping back, but I will do so to make a point - the Kings' Waterfront proposal was the true deal of the century. Had this board delivered that, they would have had a club that would've been at the top of anyone's list if it was for sale. I don't think many would have begrudged them the handsome returns they'd have made.

But they failed to deliver it (myriad reasons why). The Kirkby fiasco was almost twice the cost to the club, for a fraction of the revenue upside of Kings (and a fraction of the asset value). In short it was desperate. I think the Board dodged a bullet because had DK got the go ahead, I am not convinced that project would've been attractive to the "benefactor" buyer either. If that was the case then the debt servicing would've crippled us as the financial case for DK was ropey at best.

It's been mentioned before that the lack of investment, various loans, the less-than-stellar commercial deals will all have a deleterious affect on any independent valuation of the club.

Whether you believe the Board are out for a financial killing, or our Chairman is seeking to retain a portion of control with new investors, or both, the simple fact is their actions over the last decade have painted them into a corner. They're left looking for a specific type of investor - reducing the pool of buyers. They've also left themselves with something that's actually not worth much.

So the fans better keep clapping his mug, because he's not going anywhere soon. He can't.

Hat WTO say it but hit the nail on the head.

Any other club that is not happy with how it is being run its fans are up in arms, we only have to look over the park.

We just sit, accept, buy our early birds and pick accept that we are always going to be mediocre and punching above our weight - but moan and do nothing!

And I put myself in this group because when it comes to Everton it's the only thing I moan about and will still get my early bird, but what can you do, you are born with it, sometimes (if you are old enough) you can remember the good days, unfortunately for you young ones you just have this huge albatross to carry around with you and all you can do is hit the gym, beef up and keep carrying it until the money teams bible bursts or some rich idiot pays bills hit bills asking price.

It was never always so. I remember our relegation near miss in 2003 (lowest points total) and attended the 5-1 hammering by City on the last day. The fans at the away end let rip at the end as the manager and players came across.

The CL qualification created Moyes' reputation the year after, cemented by some of our football in 2008, 2009 and start of this season. It made it hard not to cut the man slack when we underperformed. It had been 20-odd years since we had seen the team playing so well.

However, his ridiculous stance over his contract has infuriated everyone. It is simply not fair on the fans for him to leave us and the club in limbo. He either needed to commit or say goodbye, so we could start planning. The collapse in form and a stubborn refusal to use his full squad have brought matters to a head.

If this is a call to arms, from my base in South Africa, I am happy to heed the cry. Moyes out.

Renew my ticket? Id do that irregardless of who was the manager. Im an evertonian.

We are all Evertonians and that is exactly the point Kevin Freaney is making.

But that does not mean we should accept this tripe. The decline is there
for all to see.
A board without vision (except a golden vision of a high returns on their investment)
A manager who had lost all sense of self belief and ability but so highly paid.
A team who are overpaid and lack commitment, pride and desire.
A fan base that are prepared to accept mediocracy and afraid to take a leap of faith by refusing to put up with the shambolic state of affairs at this once great club.
Vote with their feet!!!

What a load of drivel to blame the fans. Is the writer a kopite? As individual fans what can we do? Stay away and not buy tickets? Give up our season ticket so we lose our treasured seat and when we start doing well again, come back and be stuck down in a corner somewhere. It is like not blaming bankers for the country's financial mess and saying we shouldnt have banked with them.
Remember Walter Smith was only sacked because the fans revolted en masse after that shocking display in the north east. Kenwright wouldnt have got rid. The fans displayed their wrath yesterday and that is how change will occur and hopefully very soon. But to blame us instead of Moyes and Billy liar is complete idiocy. We are not Moyes FC or Fellaini FC Or Kenwright FC and the sooner we are shut of these morons the better.

I totally agree that we the supporters are to blame for this shambles as much as dithering Dave and that Tosser Kenwright. Moyes is up his own arse because he thinks he's bigger than our club and Kenwright ain't got the balls to tell him to fuck off.

The January transfer window was a shambles but could be a smoke screen to let us think we do have money and, guess what, let's bring the season ticket window forward to cream the supporters.... Get real and wake up — Moyes is a fucking joke; no cunt will want him come the end of the season and Kenwright will give him a massive pay rise and the Scottish cunt will sign it.

Kenwright and the board want Moyes because he provides stability or mediocrity. Keep turning up, week-in, week-out, and renew your season tickets to balance the books and Kenwright and Moyes have won again.

Said similar myself in pub after game, would the shite fans put up with that yesterday ?
Say what you like about those dickheads, but when something is not right at their club they raise their voice and something gets done, us we have a moan in our pint and the following week rush back like clowns after being told to shut up and thank our lucky stars.
I sat in a pub last night and a friend of mine who's never misses a game no matter where it is or how far, he said to me he has never left a game early till yesterday , but to Mr Moyes it was just one of those days, well he it wasn't and if he cannot get it now after eleven years then I give up, but I never expected anything different, the man has never blamed himself, he patronises us due to all the hype he has had which he believes and I can see him staying too as any top club won touch him with a barge pole , Porky Parry and all the other soft fuckers on Talk Sport may love him, but anyone who does their homework on him won't be fooled.

Absolute total bollocks!
I have no pecuniary interest in the Club and it is my decision whether to buy a season ticket or not.I have no wish to run Everton or, unlike so many on here,have a say in running it.The Club is not in crisis-we`re SIXTH in the PREMIER and got to the Quarter-Finals of the FA Cup.
Not brilliant,maybe,but still among the top achievers in the land! Like so many others,I`m proud of my affinity to all things Everton.If you`re not......just do one!

We're SIXTH WHOOP FUCKINH WEE it's that type of shouts and attitude that has seen us go from the greatest club in the land to winning nothing for the longest period in our history

But not under Moyes,Paul! Our average position in the first 11 seasons of the Prem was FOURTEENTH,so SIXTH is a bloody good improvement.
Trouble is I`m only 37 so can`t hark back to the glory days you hold so dear!

Richard, he has had far more money and gets paid far more money than was given out in those barren days before he came apart from one little splash here and there the managers befor were made to do with Madar and Farrelly.

We wont be top eight by the end of this season you can bank on that.

And to back that up we have Arsenal, Chelsea and the RS all away, Moye's in his 11 years hasn't managed one victory in these fixtures. An absolute disgrace imo.

We lost a load of indigenous fans years ago when we were arsing around in relegation fights and even more when Moyes started playing anti football, I can count TEN relatives and friends who gave up under the Moyes regime.

I'm sorry if it upsets some but that's where the passion comes from making excuses for Everton coming 7th, surrendering and winning fuck all is a very modern phenomena. I agree with the OP.

My affinity to all things Everton began when Jimmy husband / Johnny Morrisey / Alan Whittle were our wingers, so I have seen a few Everton teams over the years.

What I witnessed yesterday was an utter shambles, it wasa truly shocking display from a team short on confidence and self belief and a manager short of ideas.

My only surprise was the absense of the 'Dear Leader' being projected onto the big screen, in order that the 'faithful' could burst into spontaneous applause.

Gentlemen, the problem at Everton FC is that there are many who don't believe there is a problem.

I find that worrying, truly I do.

Under Howard Kendall in the eighties, Everton finished 8th, 7th, 7th, 1st, 2nd, 1st in the old First Division. Under his successor, Colin Harvey, it was 4th, 8th, 6th. Then Howard managed 9th, 12th, 13th. Then under a succession of managers only Joe Royle (ONCE) got us into the top half before Moyes's arrival.

So, apart from those three magical seasons in the eighties, you have to go right back to Catterick`s days to view Everton as top four regulars.

So why do so many see `seventhish` as so unacceptable? We do need to learn to manage our expectations!

My expectations extend to some form of heart, entertainment, thrill, excitement not the dreadful dirge that is in my opinion turned out throughout The Moyes Regime.

I have said it before that generally speaking I am bored watching Mr.Moyes brand of football - - or non-football.

Richard Dodd, to say that we are sixth in the league and got to a cup quarter final is wonderful, have you actually watched this season unfold. Did we win the quarter final yesterday ten nil and playing like Brazil? Er no.. we lost three nil and were an absolute fucking disgrace. Are we sixth in the league and charging up the table, winning every game five nil and playing like Barca? Er no.... we're in absolute free fall and playing shit football.

Being sixth and getting to a quarter final is great if we were Southampton, who just got promoted. Being sixth and getting to a quarter final is great if we were Fulham or Stoke, who always finish mid table and exit the cups early. But we are Everton, and this position is the minimum that we expect, given how recent seasons have gone. I don't expect us to be where Man Utd are season in season out, but I do expect. To say we are where we are without looking at the overall shape of things, considering how dreadful the second half of the season has been to date, just seems silly to me. I know you genuinely try to be positive as a fan and I honestly applaud you for that, you stick to your principles. But if you can't acknowledge what every other fan seems to be seeing and feeling at present then I do find that very strange.

Doddy, I'm glad you're back on this site, for comic relief if nothing else!

I don't give a fiddler's fart where the Dome, Big Joe and Walter Smith finished. What I am concerned about is that the present gaffer has been here 11 years. The entire squad and coaching staff are there on his say so. This is a team built entirely by Moyes for Moyes.

And after 11 years of moulding the team into what he wanted – financial considerations notwithstanding – yesterday we witnessed that. We were absolutely belted by a team in real danger of relegation. At home. In a cup quarter-final. With our strongest team – Jags excepted – playing.

I'm not angry or flying off the handle or using gross exaggeration to make my point either. We were absolutely dire, and that's one of the worst performances I can remember the blues putting in since before Moyes's time.

We waited 11 years for this? We can't do better? I call bullshit. Give Martinez 11 years here – or Adkins or Laudrup or Poyet or Di Canio – and see if we don't do a little better.

To many fans support Everton and point to a league placing or a cup run and then say "Hey, it's not all bad, it could be worse." Well, I would say it could be a lot better — and should be.

What Doddy and others can't or won't recognize is the complete lack of any vision for the future by the board off the pitch and the manager on it. We can argue until our teeth drop out over David Moyes but one fact is he never learns or progress his football style. What we saw yesterday wasn't a bad day at the office — it what we get a dozen times a season. In fact, with Moyes it's the norm.

Moyes has been here 11 years and in all that time he has never rectified his mistakes — he just keeps on doing the same stupid things over and over again.

How many more times must Neville and Osman play center midfield before Moyes clicks on?

They management of Everton's young players is an absolute shambolic disgrace and all stems from Moyes being fucked off by Rooney years ago. Ever since then, our youth have been treated like Lepers. Ross Barkley for instance yesterday — what a fucking joke. How much longer must pointless substitutions be made in games to try to cover up his gormless starting 11? Shall we say another 5 years.... hmm?

Doddy, Entwistle, Sam Hoare etc — don't you think Moyes has had enough time to put all this crap right? We all make mistakes (you people often say) but these things aren't mistakes — it's that Moyes is inept and clueless. Kenwright isn't arsed one bit as Premier League survival is all he wants. It's all you lot want as well by, the sounds of it.

I can understand that Richard aged 37 and younger fans, unable to remember the glory days, are willing to accept a consistent top six finish and no trophies as compensation for the generally mediocre brand of football produced in the last eleven years by David Moyes.
However I can't understand how an apparent majority of Evertonians continues to support a Chairman who has provided no meaningful investment for our once great club in the thirteen hapless years he's been in control. Why? The main reason seems to be because "he's one of us". It's pathetic. Look forward to a downward spiral to the Championship if Kenwright doesn't sell up soon.

Richard. How long have you been supporting this club??

I'm younger than you at 36, but I can remember the 'glory days' of the 80s. Even if I was a kid back then.

Everyone is down today obviously but I'm with doddy. Things are not that bad in the grand scheme of things. It's been extremely frustrating, disappointing and even a little boring at times but not a disaster. If you want to know what disastrous feels like go and speak to Leeds or portsmouth fans. Not saying I think moyes should stay but as ever there are some lightly over dramatic reactions knocking around.

It's great that we have finished 7th etc in recent years plus got to a final in 2009 Etc, but I for one want to see this club push on. This will not happen with Kenwright and Moyes. Why are we excepting mediocrity?? We have just come off the back of an absolute disgrace of a performance..... I hold Moyes culpable for yesterday, plus the majority of his players who either don't
give a fuck, or are completely out of their depth. We were outplayed, outfought, out thought. The players are culpable, but overall Moyes is where the buck stops.

Ste.I was born an Evertonian but didn`t get to watch matches until I bought my first ST when I started work at 16 in 1992. My Dad was ` of an Everton persuasion`but preferred to watch non-league football and I only went to Goodison half a dozen times in the old Football League era.
It doesn`t make me any less of an Evertonian,does it?

Jesus - The age of the stats argument (thanks Murdoch you soulless prick!)

"They scored more so they're better" (actually had this 'logic' from someone re Rooney last week)

"He finished higher so he's better"

If people stopped trusting in stats and started trusting what they actually SEE, they might have more of an idea about what is ACTUALLY happening.

Richard you quote the stats about who finished where and when but fail to say that Howard, Harvey, Royle weren't indulged for 11 fucking seasons, or that when things were seen to be 'not working' for these managers, pressure (of some sort) was brought to bear and off they popped.

Sam (448) Fantastic - best none-specific waffle of the day.

"The grand scheme of things".

"Not a disaster"

Little disappointed you didn't tell us 'be careful what you wish for" and inform us "It's not the end of the world" but I suppose "you can't have everything".

Well I was took to my first game in November 1983 Richard, when I was seven. So I can well remember those fantastic days.

I'm not saying it makes you any less of a Blue, but maybe because you ain't see the glory, you will accept mediocrity.

Eugene....as I suppose then you get the prize for 'best non-specific criticism'? Doesn't that make you a 4 time winner?

I have neither the time nor inclination to read everything above, nor do I have the time to get into a debate as to whether or not the fans have got the situation they...we...deserve, but, in the Sunday Times today Northcott, a journalist I actually admire, mentions in passing that the Leroy Fer deal hit the rocks because of Evertons insistence on only paying £1.5m down and not Fers' knee problems as we were led to believe. It's Kenwright who is shafting this club. Moyes performance is one thing , but that horrible get of a Chairman is the root cause of our problems. I know Moyes picks the team, tactics etc., but until Kenwright goes we will never improve, on the field or off it. This is not in anyway a defence of Moyes, so don't start giving me grief.

And as well Richard, you didn't need to be going the match to remember those days of the 80s as I'm sure even the armchair fans will remember them.

Ste: I don`t `accept mediocrity` but am realistic to understand that, under the present regime,no manager has a prayer of getting us regularly into the top four.The Jeremy Northcott story re Leroy Fer mentioned above illustrates precisely the difficulties Moyes-and any other manager who comes in -has to work under.

I am not supporting Moyes for the sake of it and Im a supporter who has been there during relegation and hitting the heights in the 6o's, the years as contenders in the 70's and rising again during the eighties.
Statistically Moyes has done a good job with poor financial support.
If the fans want a return to the glory days then they must make it clear to the board that investment from them is required.
We, as fans invest in this club every week..we pay to watch and buy the merchandise when its available.
The board do not invest in the club.
They and their buddies watch for free.
They only use money which is made by transferring players out or loaning out.
They never give the manager the full amount from sales of players.
We are run on a very frugal basis and assets are sold to keep going.
Chairmen of much smaller clubs than us invest their own money to finance transfers.
Dave Whelan is as much a benefactor of his beloved Wigan as Moores was for us on a lower scale.
Fans on here make excuses for the board and the board sit back in the knowledge that DM is fielding the hatred that should be aimed at them.
DM has no control of the purse strings, he just operates with what he has got.
This board are happy with survival and only the threat of relegation will make them spend.
If the fans cannot see this fact then they are blind !!

Hi all, first time poster, long time lurker, but events of yesterday have moved me to make my comment. On the way to the game yesterday, I made comment to my son that if we lose today at least we won't have to go through the pain and heartache of losing at Wembley. We were never going to win the trophy and the prospect of another patronising day out or even if we were lucky enough to draw Millwall or Blackburn maybe 2 days out.

The way we've played since the Southampton game yesterday came as no surprise. We were very lucky to beat Bolton in an earlier round, yesterday reminded me so much of the Boro Quarter-Final: we were taken apart by a side who wanted it more, we looked spineless with no direction.

I could repeat comments already made about Moyes, his team and tactics but what's the point? I can only see us treading water now until the end of the season, at best damage limitation defeats away to the usual suspects, might nick a point at a woeful Sunderland if we're lucky, maybe nick a win against the poorer sides to come to Goodison.

Such a sad lament to a season that up to the New Year had so much promise. I will renew our season tickets, what else would I do after 30 years? If I did make my stand and had a change of heart, where would we end up sitting if I don't secure the seats — stuck behind a post or in a corner!

Life will go on and yesterday will become a memory just like the Tranmere cup defeat I recounted to my son on the way home.

Sam - (468) - "Eugene....as I suppose then you get the prize for 'best non-specific criticism'? Doesn't that make you a 4 time winner?"

Impressed you got the spelling of winner correct, given your unstinting 'defence' of such a loser.

Richard - (473) - "Ste: I don`t `accept mediocrity` but am realistic to understand that, under the present regime,no manager has a prayer of getting us regularly into the top four"

Desperate bit of sleight of hand.

Evertonians understand that with the financial situation as it is and with the present regime of morally bankrupt clowns in charge, trophies and top four finishes will be as rare as hen's teeth.

But where is ANYONE saying, that as things stand, we should be regularly getting in the top 4?

It is not about that and you know it.

You KNOW that people are not raging because we might not regularly get in the top 4

Read the posts - the majority of Evertonians are disgusted by lack of pride, lack of guile, motivation, fitness, youth development and useless losing tactics that are repeated over and over and over..

Most don't expect us to win the CL but they DO expect us to beat a top 4 side away once in 11 years.

Most don't expect us to win the PL either, but they DO expect us to show up at Anfield at least looking like we THINK we can win.

Most don't expect Brazil 1970 football, but they DO expect something other than moving the ball across the back four for three minutes before sloppily and needlessly giving the fucking thing away (then when, surprise surprise, that doesn't work, hoofing).

This idea that Moyes detractors are unrealistic or unreasonable in their expectations is a complete red herring (or bollocks if you prefer...and I do).

Paul and Eugene

I don't think you need to rage much more. Ironically I think you know you are about to get what you wished for. Where it takes us, who the fuck knows, but at least it offers some hope.
Although it is times like this I am reminded of my favourite film quote of all time. John Cleese as the time obsessive headmaster in Clockwise which sort of sums up being an Evertonian.
“It's not the despair. I can take the despair. It's the hope I can't stand"

Eugene, you're concern for my spelling is touching, though your logic is ever is slightly askew, or maybe its your comedy, difficult to tell.

In all seriousness though I have no problem with people being upset or angry about our poor record at Anfield or in cups or against the top 4 but I do think people tend to throw their toys out of the pram in a quite OTT manner too often for my liking.

As for name calling and red herrings you know perfectly well it happend from both sides, just look at paul ferrys post before yours.

Nice quote Graham (619), a season of raised and crushed hopes indeed

But a correction if I may. If you had asked me on 1 August what I would have wanted I would have said this: nice joined-up footie, spirit, a top-4 finish, a good cup run/win, finishing above the shite, a little smart wheeling and dealing in the New Year window, and, on the basis of all that, Moyes to sign a deserved new contract.

But sadly from where we are now I am with you all the way on the need for change and hope.

Eeekks, would you Adam and Eve it, they have just shown the Shite/Spuds game live over here and it's about to be shown again in 1 minute. And if I go to Ch 621 the er Everton/Wigan game is just about to kick off.

Well, Paul, (#672), it seems you are bad. "hes a horrible little WUM Joe; a little sarcy cunt in short keks" That's you in reference to Nick on the Live Forum.

Consider this your final warning — and anyone else who thinks they can ignore our rules about personal abuse. And that applies to post on here that contain personal shit.

Graham - "I don't think you need to rage much more. Ironically I think you know you are about to get what you wished for".

Really!!?

What I WISHED for?

Fantastic!

Can't WAIT to see the looks on people's faces when they see a meffy Phil Neville standing outside Primark playing a harmonica (out of tune) and begging with a sign that reads 'Out Of Work'

Or their expressions when they hear a rhino got loose from the zoo and gored Suarez in the face (oh the humanity!)

And when they see Moyes and BK on the cover of the National Enquirer, pictured in bed together, naked, looking stunned. And the headline "Hoots mon the blue - It looks like it's all over"

Well...that's what I wished for!

(any specific date?)

Paul Ferry, i've read some comedy on here before but YOU telling me to calm down and chill out is one of the best ever!!! Given our editors post after yours I strongly suggest you follow your own advice.

Eugene

The date was the 9th March 2013, my post was meant to be conciliatory but there is obviously still some anger going on in the Ruane household.
I'm suspecting the multi millionaire Phil Neville will be alright but I will ask him as we share a hairdresser, I often bump into him when he is having his highlights done.

Graham, as a place to get a 'do' Pips barnett is not a good recommendation. The tinted nineties look...hmm.

I'd recommend a good number three with optional sideburns.

I see my name is referenced in a weak nautical analogy....by a man called Ferry..!!

(...And talk about capsizing).

"Man overboard!!"