Yep it is hard to argue with that Paul, if you look at the progress Moyes and the club made until 2008 you can certainly say he earned the 5 year deal he signed that year but since the end of that season the whole thing has slowly gone off the rails culminating in that sorry episode against Wigan and when you look at the available managers if is frankly quite laughable that a new contract is even up for discussion.

The most depressing thing is this shows just how far Everton have sunk that the board have allowed a manager that we took from the footballing backwater of Preston to dictate terms to us better bosses than him have been sacked for less.

On TalkSport Danny Kelly and Stan Collymoore were in agreement that for a player or manager to guarantee their performance each and every season over 11 years (9 of 11 really) that £4m per year was a bargain.

David Moyes in those 9 years has only ever been beaten in the league by the 6 teams above Everton right now, and one more and only once - Aston Villa. And at a time when Randy Lerner spent £100m in three years.

David Moyes has achieved this even though in the last 7 transfer windows he was only afforded a zero net spend twice. In the other five not one single first team purchase.

The wage level is joint 9th in the Premier League, the only teams who finish above have exponentially more.

The board have not invested in the squad beyond zero net for years at a time when money talks more than ever.

Justify the contract? justify why he should sign it more like.

He wanted two things this season, in my mind, that would allow him to sign.

1 - Backing from the board. Didn't happen, regardless of the Fer situation. 2 - CL football to bring in that investment. Not going to happen.

I do not know if the increase from Sky money next year goes to Moyes or the banks. If it were to Moyes I think it would have been signed already.

Why would he bang his head against the glass ceiling again and again. Where does it get us, where does it get him?

Not an article, neither is our poor form meaning I'm calling him everything under the sun.

Reading now looking for a new manager, maybe davey will fancy some of their Russian roubles?

What other job could he get if he leaves Everton Nick?

Don't know. But tell me what you imply by saying that. I've read people say that before but not sure as to what slight they're aiming at Moyes.

What job is Di Matteo going to get? Or Ryjkaard? Or that Reading bloke who looks like he's from Master Chef.

That's not the question. It was what justification is there for Moyes to sign it.

The reason Moyes will get another contract is because it isn't up to us. It's up to Billy Bullshit, and to him, Moyes is golden. Takes the heat off him and his crooked board and keeps Everton supporters in a little hope of doing something every other season. It's honestly like loan sharking or drug dealing. You never kill off your bottom feeders. You keep them just barely alive so that they keep lining your pockets.

Nick I am not interested in
Di Matteo,
Rijkaard or that Reading bloke.I am discussing the Everton manager.
I imply that Everton is the biggest club he will ever manage.

Then if it is, it is.

There's a hundred articles and mail bag threads where people can have a go at Moyes.

We have one here specifically requesting the justification of Moyes to stay at the club and should remain so.

Expect `To settle any uncertainty which may be wrongly attributed to the manager`s contract situation,Everton FC are delighted to announce...........`any time now!

Why do people think Moyes needs to move to another job? Does he need the money? I am sure he could/would just sit back for a year or so and recharge his batteries while waiting for another nice little earner.

Nick, I'm not calling him everything under the sun either. I know and appreciate what he's done. I'm just wondering whether he can do any more and I'm not convinced that his teams' choking in big games is completely about money.

Anyway, fair play to you for making a case. Makes a change from being asked if I want Allardyce/McLaren/McDermott as manager!

No no, didn't mean to say you were but others have.

And yes, big game choking is a constant.

So the " big game" we choked in was the final we lost to Chelsea...none of the games before that were big. Then again the "big game" we choked in was the semi against Liverpool...none of the games before that were big. Now suddenly the quarter final which we lose against Wigan...is the "big game". "Ching, ching" (sound of pennies dropping)...even I can now see why we always lose the "big games" but manage to win the unimportant ones. And if its true that sarcasm doesn't work on the internet I'm being fecking SARCASTIC!

Very melodramatic.
That is the way I read much of the content of TW on occassions. We don't always bottle the big games, but whenever we lose, then that will always be how it is determined. The 2009 FA cup run was probably the toughest set of games any side has ever had on the way to the final and then the Chelsea side we played in the final was probably the best side they have had. What Everton lack, is the rub of the green, the luck of the devil, or whatever set of words you choose to use. We were unlucky, the previous and following seasons saw rather easier opponents. Luck of the draw?

I do blame Moyes for some poor tactics and some mind boggling starting line ups, silly subs and the complete inability to see the obvious.

Dean Adams - "What Everton lack, is the rub of the green, the luck of the devil, or whatever set of words you choose to use".

Yeah, we could have drawn City, Utd or Chelsea away, but typical Everton bad luck, we get Wigan, at home.

When WILL this bad luck end!?

Classic Eugene !!

To be fair Eugene, in 09 we might've got some rub of the green to end up with the same state of affairs that Portsmouth had the previous year.

All that said, we had our best chance at a final this year and fucked it up...

2 days on and I can't even look at Phil Neville's image...useless

The best post and thread on this topic so far.

Paul's OP sums up my feelings though nick's counter is good.

I look at it like this: who gets 10 years+ with a club? Managers who win things and the Dario Grady's of this world at Crewe – ie happy to just feel a pulse.

It's written all over DM's face: the thrill is gone.
I like Moyesey but it's all over because there's nothing to justify unless we also are happy with that mindset. And I'm not!

Mike, I mentioned in another thread his quote in Keown's interview about being a lot more mellow now than he used to be. At 49, and with no trophies, you can't be mellow. SAF could be mellow, but he isn't, so why is DM?

His pathetic record against that lot across the park justifies the boot. For me he is negative and clueless, continually picking players who wouldn't get a game for Vauxhall Motors.

Nick Entwistle # 310 you betray your love of Moyes over and above your love of Everton by stating "That's not the question. It was what justification is there for Moyes to sign it." When quite clearly from the article, the question is: "Why should Moyes be offered an new contract?"

Here is the line from the article, just in case you are too lazy to scroll up to see what you SHOULD be answering "I'd love to see an article on this site explaining why Moyes should get his contract and what makes him the man to take us forward."

Notice its WHY Moyes should get a new contract not why should Moyes ACCEPT a new contract. This semantic trick of yours does not work any more too many people have woken up to what the tactically inept, motivational midget and big game bottling fool Dour Davey is.

I know most Evertonians are loyal, after all why do we put up with disappointment year after year and still keep coming back for more. But I wish more supporters could make the distinction between supporting the club and supporting a failed manager. Try not to conflate your love of Everton with loyalty to the Dour one it is misplaced.

Tim Jones 355. Hear, hear

Thanks Paul its yet another example of the Straw Men and Red Herrings that the unscrupulous Entwhistle employs to try and support the unsupportable.

Tim #370, on a recent thread that got out of hand after it was "Entwistled", he admitted to one of the poster he was just trying to wind him up, so by his own admission, he's a bit of a master baiter at times. It's a shame, as the rare occasion he makes a valid point gets lost in the "Oh it's him" tag he's earned in a few people's eyes.

Tim, I've never swayed off topic. I haven't done any trick, least not intentionally. I think you're splitting hairs, Mulder.

Matt, I have no idea what you're talking about.

Contrary to the rapidly disintegrating myth Moyes WAS dealt a decent hand for survival and improving.

Walter's squad weren't winners but neither did they get relegated add in 25 million quid of Rooney plus taking on huge debt to bang the wage bill up and he's where you'd expect most managers to be given 11 years of complete control, didn't Allardyce do the same at Bolton?

The OP is clearly asking if you are satisfied then sign Moyes for another 11 years..... but if you want to win "big" games ie cups, derbies and games at the old sky4 what argument is there for allowing Moyes back on the premises?

None I can see.

Roman #348 - agreed.

When DM came in he was like a breath of fresh air. I remember him putting on another forward instead of a defender close to the end of a match we were winning with a post-match comment of "it gives the opposition something to think about."

That spirit didn't appear to last too long. And the Merseyside power shift didn't happen either.

This is not an anti-Moyes rant, though, as on the whole he's been good for us IMHO. Mind you, he's been over-hyped by the media and it really gets on my tits when some R5L poundit throws in the usual "lack of resources" cack. Passion and will to win cost nothing.

The last couple of years have brought indications that this is the best we can expect and, as others have alluded to, I'm tired of the conservative approach and seeming lack of spirit in crucial matches.

No animosity from me but it's time for a change for all concerned at the end of the season. Don't ask me who. But if it's not working, do something different.

Surely it`s a two-way street.Why should Everton offer Moyes a new contract and why should Moyes expect them to do so?

The first is easy to answer in that Davey has brought stability to a club who were perenial `relegation fighters` for much of the Premier`s first ten years whilst under his tenure our aspirations have got a lot higher.The fact that we are having this debate is witness to this as fact.If those `in power` see continuing `stability`as an end in itself ie. available resources will only EVER allow for Everton to be `best of the rest`then a new contract for the man who has made this position almost a right is a no brainer.I believe that IS their mindset and given they cannot/will not sell,I endorse the decision as the right one.

So how does Moyes see it? Well,that`s about ambition,as well.Is there a club out there-at home or abroad-who have the resources to `play with the big boys`AND WOULD SEE HIM AS THE MAN to enable them to do so?Or,given the huge salary he gets at Everton,should he continue `in a safe seat`,knowing that aside from glitches like last Saurday,he can do the job in his sleep?
Given that by his own admission,he likes to be CERTAIN in his decision making (whilst always denying he`s Dithering Dave),I can well understand he needs time to make his mind up.

So that`s where we are.Kenwright can see no prospect of improving the financial situation and ,therefore,sees no better man than Moyes to keep us among `the best of the rest. In those circumstances MOSTof us agree with him.
Moyes is weighing up his options-sort of waiting until the 70th minute (or later) to make a decision- and who`ll blame him given it`s a big decision to make- although his indecision may well now be impacting on his team`s performance.

All we, as fans, can hope is that both parties soon `get off the pot` and put us out of our misery. Please!

Richard

So what you are saying is that this is as good as it gets? There's a saying in business that if you're not going forwards, you'll end up going in reverse. I think that is already happening. I'm not happy with that.

Yes, there has been stability but that is only desirable after a period of unstability. That approach has now run its course and it's time for something different. We need to grow. If finances are unavailable to grow then a fresh new approach is required.

I said I believe that is the case.I didn`t say I`m happy with it!

I think we continually hire managers who are "safe" options.

Football is now a global game more than ever, and don't under-estimate what a big name continental manager could bring to the club.

I don't think David Moyes would ever be a draw for really well known Internationals. Imagine a player on the line "David Who?" would be his first question when his agent rang.

If we can manage to attract someone who has say, a fantastic reputation in Spain, we could see a revolution at the club - let's swap Neville & Osman for two Spanish Internationals, these two are unbelievably paid £50 or £60 grand a week, wages like this could be spent on special talent from abroad.

Forget about the likes of Adkins or Coyle, we need a shrewdie who can get massive value in Spain, Italy or France, look what Wenger did for Arsenal.

£3-4m buys you a lot of manager, unfortunately, we are 20 years behind our peers, in every way imaginable, so I am ready to be completely underwhelmed by our next appointment.

Richard I think you fall into the "stability" trap without considering WHY we are stable?

IMO previous regimes tried to win things as a first priority and weren't up to it the appointment of an unknown like Moyes was a cheap alternative accepting "winning stuff" was no longer a priority - and so it's proved.

Surely this temporary state of affairs should be stopped .... I mean getting outdone by Swansea ffs, saturdays business with Wigan wasn't a one off it was symptomatic of a major flaw with this manager. If we stick with him 7th in isolation is as good as it gets - not acceptable.

Barry,like so many others,you are looking for a magician not a manager!
I respect what you want but with the money available here,you ain`t going to get it.

Richard

I don't know what Barry expects but when I say I want us to move forward its about the style of play. We can't expect us to be much higher in the league without investment but we do pay out big wages on players who seem incapable of playing fast flowing attacking football. A couple of months a season of good football simply isn't enough.

I just don`t accept that Moyes sends his team out to play defensive boring hoof-ball as so many on here attest. For much of this seson we have been a joy to watch.

Well Dicky, I am looking for a manager. Moyes has not been a manager for nearly 6 years, he is a dictator in his own little North Korea.

Moyes/ Neville/ Kenwright are the magicians, they are the ones that fool people like you in to believing it is all down hill without them.

Richard

We started the season on fire then we ground out results and now the results are starting to go against us. We haven't played well for a long time. I also don't see how sending out a team with at least 1, sometimes 2 holding midfielders and only 1 striker in every single game is anything other than cautious.

I think and I'm sorry for using this old chestnut 'looking at the bigger picture', although at times we have had to take 2 steps back to go forward, we have actually improved steadily under Moyes. Before the Wigan game I think many on here would have agreed that our current team is as good as any during Moyes's tenure. I for one would like to see him continue this gradual improvement. I'm hoping that with the increased TV renenue there may be a bit of cash to imrove the squad and I would back Moyes more often than not to spend the money wisely

David

You are right but if you look at the squads in the league from 10 years a go then the standard of the league as a whole has improved.

Richard Dodd # 442 That would be a Moyes HALF Season which seems about all we ever get from him. I for one want to know how the barnstorming team of September/October turned in to the petulant useless pratts who were on the field against Wigan. It can't be that suddenly everyone has an off day (or rather an OFF Three Months in Evertons case) there has to be something going on at the club which has changed things and I don't mean not buying anyone at Xmas there has to be another reason and that reason is moral and motivation an THAT is totally down to the MANAGER. BTW why cant an highly paid professional athlete compete for a full season without getting tired?????? Something must be wrong on the training field with the coaching- and that too is down to the MANAGER.

I think Nick has made some valid points. I also think the OP has made some too.

What worries me is Moyes signs and everything stays the same with finances. I just have a horrible feeling that he will accept a contract because its comfortable for him and he's getting a lot of cash. Like Mike said, his passion and appetite is gone, and if we carry on like that, I would much rather see the change.

Then flipping the coin, any manager we would appoint will be a huge gamble. But it could also pay off. So if Kenwright got the funds (which he won't) then I'd be happy if Moyes stayed. He hasn't had a fair crack in the league with money.

If not, then Id be happy risking someone like Poyet or Martinez, then hope we can get better and develop better football.

But it's a tough one. But the worst scenario is Moyes staying and everything staying the same. We need a reinvigorated Moyes or a new manager.

Doddy @410, you do make a good reasoned point, similar to my first on the thread about the board being happy where we are.

Here's a follow up question then. Since they are happy and will probably continue to offer Moyes the new contract, will it be acceptable for him to be paid more on the next one than he is paid already? Your support of Moyes aside, do you think that he has been worth 67k a week?

I posted a few weeks ago that I was certain that no matter where Moyes manged next season, here or anywhere, he would be on less than he is now. The thing is, I just don't trust this board to not fuck it up and try whatever they can to keep their man.

Everton is Moyes PINNACLE and I think deep down even he knows it. For him or anyone else to think that he could manage a 'BIG' club is beyond a joke one week of KITAP1 and he would be long gone . Oh and please don't tell us that with better players and more money he wouldn't be a Dour, Defensive , Safety First clown -he would its in his DNA, a leopard does not change its spots.

Spot on Tim Jones-he should be on his knees thanking his god that EFC continue to employ him. The biggest job he will ever get and he has had over 10 years in the post-lucky, lucky man.

Roman,whatever my respect for what Moyes has achieved,I do see his reported salary-and that of many others in football- as obscene although were some silly bugger to offer me about 2% of what he gets in a year,I`d bite his hand off.So who am I to judge?
Regardless of whether he stays or goes,I don`t see us making any further progress under the Kenwright regime and my fear of losing Moyes is based on my doubt that BB is capable of choosing the right successor.
I have to add that with each day this saga drags on my respect for Moyes as a so-called honourable man goes somewhat down the pan,But then,it`s Bill who lets him dither,isn`t it?

Do you know Moyes is after a pay rise, Roman?

Probably he would be on less else here. He's on what he is here, not because the board over pay him, but because he guarantees a finish between 5th and 8th. £4m per year with the new sky deal for that kind of return would be a snip.

And of course the longer someone is employed at a business the more he is paid. You think Ryan Giggs would be on what he is now by going elsewhere?

Good response, Richard.

Nick, I don't know if he's going to demand more money. It was a simple question. Moyes gets roughly 5% of our annual turnover. That's monstrous. I accept why the board thought 67k a week was a good bit of business in 2008, but now, five years later, I feel that we haven't moved forward at all, despite some massive outlays on the pitch.

Had he signed an extension while the current contract was still live, say, a year or two ago, I would understand the business of a payrise. This situation though, is the exact sort of situation where an employer should say, "Here's the offer, it's considerably less than your last contract, but if you've got a better offer, then this is redundant anyway."

The exact same situation they should have done when they bought Pienaar back. I don't know if he's on more or less now, but I think they should have halved his salary.

I suspect he gets about £3Million.basic to make budget (10th) and c £200,000 a place above that..As you say,chicken feed once the new Sky deal kicks in.

Additionally, Nick, to say he "guarantees" a finish between 5th and 8th is a bit rich. No manager can guarantee that, and, on current form, that guarantee will be contradicted in about 10 weeks.

Lets take Entwistles words and hold them against him at the end of the season. Remember guys that on here Entwistle told us that Moyes GURANTEE's us a finishing position between 8th and 5th . Why no 4th Entwistle you were telling us all that was still in play only a couple of days ago.

David has placed himself in a no win situation.He made a statement some weeks ago,where he said he wanted to see where we finished in the league and where we finished in the cup.Well we are out of the cup,dismissed by a side currently in the relegation zone.We have some difficult games coming up,imo we will finish 7th at best.What will David dedeuce from that?
The finishing positions in league and cup MUST be below what he saw as a good season.
I personally expect a statement along the lines of "This club means so much to me,i have unfinished business here"

Oi, Jones! Get back to picking your scabs!

Are you 12?

No Nick Entwistle # 487 add half a century and more of supporting Everton FC and not just who ever is in charge at the time instead- but it seems you are already running scared of your predictions failing.

Just saw this in the Liverpool Echo.

“Due to unforeseen circumstances, this afternoon’s signing session with Marouane Fellaini at Everton Two has been postponed.”

No there's a surprise.

Roman. A few weeks ago one of the Toffee Web financial geeks stated that Pienaar was 3rd in the Everton pay league, behind only Moyes and Fellaini. If this is true then I'm not surprised he pulls up his shirt to reveal " God is Greatest " on his vest.

Come to think of it. BK calls Moyes "God" so maybe Pienaar is flashing a hidden message.

Getting back to the original point behind my original post, yes, we did play some great football at the start of the season, but remember how many points we dropped due to not seeing games out. Most of these games were against the mighty sides below us in the table.

I agree with Nick's point about the last two months being largely down to form ,which will fluctuate through a season. We've dropped in the table mainly due to that period when despite playing great football, we couldn't win enough games.

My big point against Moyes staying is his teams' propensity to choke and lack that killer instinct. Again, I'm not convinced this is down to money - it's a combination of all the 'nice' players he picks and a gap in Moyes' skillset.

Dodd, I just fly past your posts now; your comedy return is akin to a bad pisshhead, hanging round waiting for a free drink.

Personally I feel robbed of 11 years of my adult life. I went off him when he spent the money on Beattie, that just said a lot to me and none of it was good. I could dissect his limitations all day, the PE teacher, doesn't buy into skilled players, no reverence of pace and power, favouritism to very average players, doesn't blood youth, ruined strikers because of our set up, terrible at mind games,always too early or too late with comments that can influence future events, doesn't recognize crap players, feels inferior against the big boys.
Having said that he is a straight shooter, a decent man, but just not savvy and sharp enough to live in this world. The fact that RS fans love him and want him to stay says it all...they have no fear of us ,he was out of his depth with queen Kenny and we are losing that ground even against Brendan Brent. Believe me they'll be laughing at us, and beng condescending when Suarez tears us a new one. Horriblest gobshite ever but fantastic player and a winner. We need a man to stand up to him and fight fire with fire, he's tried to hurt players all year. Have we got anyone that can actually do I t rather than talk it...wish we still had Cahill to sort this crap out.

Phil Neville's alleged comment of top 10 being good enough for Everton tells you all you need to know about Moyes, and why we fail in big games. If I was a player, I would now be thinking: season over, job done. I don't feel Moyes makes the players feel like they are better than mid-table, that's why we cant beat the top sides when it really matters.

On Saturday, Wigan had a manager with players who are of bottom 10 quality, yet he gave them belief that on the day they could come and beat us. They went at us and got their reward. Moyes would NEVER do that! Belief can take you a long way, and that's where Moyes fails for me.

If you were being told that you were mid-table at your chosen job by your captain and your boss, then what are you likely to be? MID-TABLE!

Seems to me we are at the same point in time we find ourselves in every year. We always end up debating if Moyes should stay or go. 11 years without a Trophy FUCK OFF Moyes. Brian Laudrup 1 year in the premier league 1 trophy need I say anymore. I am not a Moyes fan and never have been, I don't like the mans arrogance he thinks he's bigger that Everton. Also I would like to mention Billy Bullshitter Kenwright, seems we have a potential buyer in the Middle East mmmmm sound familiar seeing season tickets have just gone on sale. Kenwright is as much to blame as Moyes don forget it and don't let him Worm his way out of it. Kenwright has to go and take the fucking muppets on the board with him.

I think Liverpool fans would love to see him go.

They see that for pennies he can finish ahead them in the league despite their millions.

Yes they can make fun and all the rest of it, but for an apparently shit manager the power shift on Merseyside has been its closest to tipping in Everton's favour since 1987.

With them out of CL for these last few years, that power shift is on their minds more than ever... not that they'd admit it!

Nick @ 784

Couple of questions for you,be grateful if you can give your thoughts.

1,How many times has David finished ahead of them in the league in 11 years?

2,How many league derby games has David won against them out of 21 played?

Thing about power shifts Paul, is that they shift.

They're three years without CL football, could be a 4th.

CL players do not play for non-CL teams and the longer they remain out of the CL the quicker they lose that residual draw.

Last three seasons -2pts -4pts +4pts where previous to that it was 10 sometimes 20 points to the reds.

That's the power shift tipping, but oh no, you have to oppose everything right now.

Do you think we will finish above them this season Kevin? Yes/No

Sorry that last one was to Nick.

Great post.
I think he should be offered a new contract, the next couple of seasons will see a shift in the playing staff with more youth players coming through. He knows only one system of play as we've seen this season, for most of it I have to say it's been really enjoyable to watch. Yes we know our flaws, we know what's going to happen after 70 mins...and I agree with everyone else, his inability to make good substitutions.

The fact is if Barklay, Oviedo, Stones, Kennedy...can learn the system, because that's all it is, then he has youth to add to the playing squad. Everybody has a job, I remember Fellaini saying it last year. It might be that he doesn't play the squad players very often because they don't know the system? I doubt that too if I'm honest...but anyway under Moyes we are playing some of the best football in the league.

What we lack is the quality of player. I can see Moyes being successful at Chelsea. No seriously I can. The reason is simple, at Chelsea he will have some of the best footballers in the world to set up in his system.

Think about our early season form. We were amazing to watch and then usually quite shocking towards the end. Moyes puts this down to the players and quite right to. He has stated on numerous occasions it's down to the players to perform. He is stating quite clearly, they know what to do, what they lack is the ability to see it through. How many chances did we create each game, we were phenomenal, better players would have won.

I also believe Moyes challenges his players to perform every week, how many times do we hear him, pass pass pass from the touchline, or I go out to win every game. I think this season has the potential to be very entertaining for us yet, I'm hoping the players respond to their recent performances and batter City. I think we're good enough to beat most save Chelsea in our run in. We'll see a return to our early season form but this time take our chances. It's clear to all where we need to improve in our playing staff, let's hope he gets some cash in the summer.

Paul Andrews # 906 Entwistle is avoiding your questions like the plague - what a surprise.

Michael Winstanley #
014 says -
"I think he should be offered a new contract, the next couple of seasons will see a shift in the playing staff with more youth players coming through. He knows only one system of play as we've seen this season, for most of it I have to say it's been really enjoyable to watch."
Proof in any were needed that there's a 'Sucker born every minute'. So that would be the fabled 'Youth Scheme' that has brought so many brilliant players to the fore in the last 11 YEARS would it and the boring inane KITAP1 which is the Dour Jock's one and only tactic and which is responsible for the state Everton are in. Thats all Moyes knows and he would be the same defensive, safety first boring twat, no matter where he goes and no matter how much money and what players he has, its in his DNA

FFS, I've seen the poll and can't believe that 50% don't want Moyes to renew his contract

Who replaces him? Who will come to our club with no or little investment? Remember the dark days...

Pat Campbell # 021 How about a young ambitious Manager from UK or abroad for whom a salary of £67 K per week would be absolutely fabulous. I bet there are many available especially if you look for them 24/7.

BTW I love the way that guys like Pat Campbell throw out the 'Who replaces him?' question like an accusation, as if we are guilty of some great crime, against all those who want rid of the Dour One . Just a note Pat its not OUR job to select or suggest a replacement Manager and do you really believe anyone at the Club would take any notice of us if we did - of course they would not.
Its Boys Pen Billy and his boards job and if they are not already searching 24/7 than they are being grossly derelict in their duty to EFC.

No Tim,
we have to accept it.In the whole wide world of football there is not a suitable replacement manager.

Pat, I want someone who will instruct his players to get the ball down on the deck and pass and move,someone who can make a tactical decision that is based on offensive not defensive, you know like don't finish a game away to mighty Oldham with three centre halves, three defensive midfielders and no forwards on the pitch, I want someone who looks to leave a man up front from a corner, someone who can give fringe players a chance when his lovely favourites like Neville and Osman are shattered and costing us games, does this require bloody Pep Guardiola to do these things?
I'm not renewing my season ticket till this issue is resolved and my fellow mates who fork their hard earned money out are the same, infact the only blues who tell me to be careful what I wish for don't even watch us each week, they used to but stopped going, they praise Moyes yet stopped going a couple of years back under his leadership, so the proof is in the pudding there too,

Pat #021 "FFS, I've seen the poll and can't believe that 50% don't want Moyes to renew his contract". Well do what a lot of others do and ignore it. Or suggest something like it must be RS on the wind up (although personally the ones I know would vote for him to stay, 4-6 points a season guaranteed).

The main reason I want Moyes to go is I think he's been here too long, and looks bereft of ideas, and has lost the passion/fire in his belly. I think he is fed up with the bollocks from the board. They are the real problem. Moyes has exceeded their targets and helped keep the heat off them. A new manager offers no guarantees of course (neither does keeping Moyes) but it's time for a change - top to bottom.

Should not get a new contract - simple as that. All good things come to and end and to alleviate the boredom Everton need a new face to lift the whole club and bring in some new optimism.

Things have simply become stale and have been for a while. Most of the time, everyone knows the team, formation, tactics, substitutions and post match interview, before a ball has been kicked. Its boring and this is not down for lack of funds. The prime goal of any manager and team is to provide either trophies or entertainment (preferably both). We currently have neither and that is highly unlikely to change if Moyes stays.

Let Moyes leave having stabilised th ship - bring a new guy in and give him the Fellaini and Heitinga money to invest in 4-5 new/fresh faces (as well as retire the likes of Neville, Hitz and Anichebe). Give the squad a much needed facelift.

Season is all but over - so come on Moyes, man up and say your farewell on your way to Celtic.

Justify the contract; He Can't, but the bigger worry is, that unless there is another offer in the pipeline, he will.

Not necessarily so Derek, he may simply think, "Enough is enough" and do one. I wouldn't blame him, I would have walked after the 3rd transfer free season came around.

"Pat Campbell # 021 How about a young ambitious Manager from UK or abroad for whom a salary of £67 K per week would be absolutely fabulous." - Sounds good, but for one, he will not be offered that amount at all and two, why the fuck would an ambitious manager come to a flailing club like ours? No money, best players on the wrong side of 25 or probably offski come seasons end.

As someone else said in a post not so long ago, people don't want a manager, they want a magician.

Tony #053 - I think you vastly underestimate the interest there would be in the everton job, should it become available.

Lets assume that Fellaini and Heitinga are sold for around 20-25m, add to that the wages available from them as well as Neville and Moyes (new man will not be on 4m a year!), that is a fair amuont of transfer cash, as well as wage bill availability, for a new manager to bring in a good 4-5 players, if used wisely (e.g. see Swansea and Newcastle recent transfers). Even if the new manager got 1m a year (double what laudrup started on), the four names mentioned above would free up around 250k a week for wages, or around 4-5 NEW players on 50k a week!

The manager would have a loyal following of 30-35k crowd every home game and would be given time to re-engineer the squad and hopefully make better use of the youngsters and get rid of dross like Anichebe.

Any young ambitious manager in the world of football would jump at the chance to manager a club like ours - even in our current condition, and I have not even mentioned the new TV money!

I really am baffled by how our own fans think that no decent manager would be interested in the post. Just look at Swansea - if a recent championship side can attract someone like Laudrup, do you really think we would struggle to find someone decent? Its not as if Laudrup was given a war chest of cash either, he had less cash than we did last summer.

We don't need a magician, just a young energetic manager who knows a bit about the european scene (so we can get cheaper/better players from overseas) and wants to play the game properly.

The only issue we have imo, is that BK will want another 'no complaints just accept the cash' manager. Any seriously ambitous manager would have a good go but tell BK to do one fairly quickly after being fucked about for a year or two. Because of this, I don't think BK would offer the job to someone who'd be great, if they then rocked the boat.