All of a sudden I thought we can catch Spurs.

Then I thought, "Lee, stop being a twat, we will fuck it up. Again!"

But then I thought, "Maybe, just maybe..."

23 years and I still haven't learned.

That's Martin Luther King, not Michael Kenrick. ;-)

Of course,I shall be happy to lose that bet -but only if we better those positions. >Somehow I think my money's safe!

Yes its a big if. But after this weekend, the motivation is there. Hopefully the focus at Finch Farm about forgetting what has gone before (silly losses, poor performances, the managers contract) and making sure we get the most from this mini league and mini season.

Maybe, just maybe.

I could not disagree with Phil's bet but then that small naive part of me thinks that we must be due some good results at the likes of Chelsea, Arsenal and the RS and none of them look invincible.

I can see us getting right back in the mix with a result against Stoke and maybe even beating Spurs to then see it all go wrong again, culminating in a horrific derby display....urrgh, shudder.

Quite the opposite just a bizarre addiction to a nightmare of trophy humiliation and servility at certain clubs, it's virtually a sexual deviancy - I reckon some of these fellas go into Goodison wearing a bra under their overalls.

Your first paragraph is very insightful however I notice you revert to form in the second. If you can't really dream of actually winning things then supporting your team becomes a pretty depressing experience.

We are in a sort of purgatory stuck in that place between the Top 4 and those sides consistently fighting relegation. It is to David Moyes's credit he has got us there given what we endured in the previous years. A team that consistently performs well but is not quite good enough to break into Champions League football.

However, is that enough? It is fairly clear that we have found our level under Moyes. Yes, there is an outside choice of a Top 4 finish this year but I think we all know deep down, given the fixtures remaining, that it is a long shot. But should we not, that will be seven consecutive seasons finishing between 5th and 8th. And for me that should be the time David Moyes calls it a day.

That brings some big risks — we could even get relegated if it went really badly — but do we just want to keep treading water in no-man's land? David Moyes has built a team in his own image based on his footballing philosophy and it has worked to a point. But only a change in philosophy and approach can ultimately change things for the better.

I understand the financial constraints any manager of this club has to work under but if we use that as a reason that we can't make the step then we may as well just give up hope.

David Moyes has served this club well, some of the abuse he gets is quite frankly disgraceful but if the end of the season sees us outside of the Top 4 then to my mind the time for change has arrived.

Yep and then post match you start reading the Sunday papers, looking at the league table with a sort of half smile, and the day dreaming kicks in big time. You start predicting the results for the next fixtures - Everton always winning, teams around the blues somehow always losing. Hey, I thought Fulham were a cert to win at Spurs. Just goes to show that once the blue blinkers are on you can throw caution to the wind. Problem is the blue blinkers stay on for a lifetime and rest assured, Everton will never fail to let you down. The number of accumulators I have had turned over by the blues is no joke.

He will have the same staff, the same lack of resources and unfortunately (there it is again) the same board. he will probably also have lost one of our better players when Fellaini goes to whoever he can get a contract with.

I just hope it's not Martinez, but if he does come, he will get my support and no doubt I will be called a Martinex Apologist when I try and suggest that maybe our players have to shoulder some of the blame too when we have a bad result...... like 9-1 against Spurs...or 4-0 at home to Liverpool, or 4-0 at home and away to Man U etc

Would fit our Boards profile down to the ground - a safe bet to keep us around the top ten places.

Just taken a look at the latest odds for a top 4 finish to cheer us up - The tricky blues generally 11/1 with the dark side @ 22's.

With Toffeeweb, part of what sets it apart from other similar sites is the fact that we don't always allow the day dreams and fantasies to completely take over. If we did, we would all just read the OS. What has been a criticism is what has kept so many of us coming back to the site. In a way it doesn't make any sense and it does contradict my submission above. But in other ways, I think that acknowledging the realistic is what makes the positive results, the new player, the higher league position at 5pm on a Saturday all the more enjoyable as a day dream.

Just out of interest have you ever been to Goodison in your work clothes?...

How far into the season do we have to get before that number of points behind the CL perennials reflects a sign of quality?

Spurs fans were laying into AVB on talksport, blaming the good performances on Bale. Blaming! Liverpool lose to Southampton, Arsenal still less points than a win away and Chelsea still doing their best to destroy their own season.

Since when did form, good form have to be about winning each and every game? We win, we lose, so to other teams around us. At this late stage, with that dour tactically inept manager in charge we're a game in hand from being three points of CL.

We don't even have a Bale to blame on that one.

Yes I have gone to a match in my work clothes on a mid week night game, what difference does that make?

Rocket science this ain't it.

PS, Osman's shot was a miss-kick and if you can't see that it explains everything.

Robbie, it explains a lot that you want to detract from Ossie a cracking goal, like the one he hit against Larrissa, I bet you think he fluked that too!..... better yet that mazey run against Sunderland, jammy as fuck that one too.

Mis-kick? — some posters just cannot give any credit to their boo boys, can they?

I well remember Charlton fans on 606 saying Curbishley had taken them as far as he could and it was time for a change of manager, a bit like some of our fans are saying about Moyes. Charlton were 10th in the Premier League at that point how they would still love to be in the top 10 of the Premier League.

Look, I accept that if Moyes decides to leave we will have no choice but to find another manager, but I can't think that there is anyone out there who I could see keeping us in the top 6. I know some fans say we should not consider 6th as an achievement but with the same net spend with a new manager I will not be surprised if we end up like Charlton fans wishing we had kept the manager who during his 11 years has had us constantly in the top 6/7.

For those of you who can't remember he was talking about how the resources of a club like ours compared to a club like City is like taking a knife to a gunfight. If you are to win you have to out smart and out wit your much better equipped opponent. Well guess what, David Moyes took his knife to the gunfight and that knife out ran, out fought and out thought the big guns of Mancini.

Tony #606, replace him with Duffy, you know, that young defender who did really well,when he got a few games earlier in the season. Regarding the Osman goal, it was a cracker, just that it didn't go where he intended that's all, no crime, just don't try and make it out to be something it wasn't, that's all, I think the phrase is 'keep it real'.

I can't remember the Larissa goal, but I do remember the Sunderland one, they all backed off and not one player tried to tackle him, it was a good run don't get me wrong, funny that he only managed to do that when we were 4 or 5 up at home towards the end of the game (if I remember correctly).

Any more jems you can think of from the past 12 years, perhaps away at Arsenal, Liverpool, United, Chelsea, you know, any of the games where he bossed the midfield and showed them exactly why he should have been playing for England all those years ago?

The "unknown" Wenger who had previously won the French league with Monaco in his debut season.

Why am I not surprised you can't remember Ossies goal against Larrissa? Probably his best ever.....then trying to belittle his goal against Sunderland.

The lad has scored fifty goals. So I am guessing there would be a few more decent ones in there.

Look, I like Osman as a football player, technically very good, but so are some of those guys you see juggling balls at shows; he's just too slow, lightweight and never ever bosses a game. Take it by the scruff of the neck, drive the team on etc. etc.

I think he would would have been absolutely perfect for Barcelona (I'm being serious here), just not the EPL and the Mighty Blues. Then again, IF we'd had a midfield general and played Osman in the gap, as the attacking midfielder, like Clough or Beardsley, I think he'd have been something else. Play to his strengths, not square pegs in round holes — doesn't work.

If it was a miskick, it would have to go down as the greatest miskicked goal in the history of football. Either way, worthy of acclaim!

Come on lads, we beat the champions with ten men, lets enjoy it cos we know what the Stoke game will be like.

Let me spell it out for you. He has not got the bottle to go to the above grounds and play the football required to get 3 points.

Normally we mess up in the games you think we'd win, and this season we've struggled against the more physical sides. If we can win a few games in a row, I'd be surprised if most Evertonians weren't getting carried away despite the all too hard lessons of previous experience etc...