I think you'll find we have a couple of mortgages against Goodison Park. So it's more a case of we don't own it outright. We do not rent it though.

Everton own Goodison Park. It's used as security for the Prudential securitization loan, hence the name. It's placed in a separate vehicle so that, if the club went bust, the Prudential could lay claim to it without a fight with the other creditors. It's the way all securitization loans are structured.

The claims that we have no assets concern the net assets on the balance sheet. Essentially what assets we have, tangible and intangible (players) are outweighed by our liabilities, what we owe. When Kenwright took it over, we had a £20M net asset value on the balance sheet; today, because of selling assets and borrowing, we have net liabilities of £44M – but he's doing a great job cos he's a blue.

In those debts, you won't find a penny owed to Kenwright or any other director. Bill may have mortgaged his house but it wasn't for anything to do with the club's finances.

Another piece of brilliant business was the proposed Park End development which couldn't proceed because of the aforementioned charge on the ground the Prudential has. They weren't too happy that Everton attempted to sell the land to Williams Tarr for them ti build and lease back the building.

Doesn't the season ticket money get paid into 'Goodison Park Stadium Ltd' or something similar? That must be why the 'early bird' date gets earlier and earlier...

Not wishing to tempt the fates but, in the event of BK being hit by the proverbial No 73 bus, how would that leave/affect the club's finances? Who would step into his shoes?

I'd give it to the bus driver....

Ha Ha. Nice one Tom.

The driver would deserve a knighthood at least, IMO.
I don't think even Stephen Hawkins could decipher the black hole that is EFC finances.

Why would the snake BK give up controlling £24 Million of Other Operating Expenses, that is 28% of our turnover that has no explanation and doesn't include the players wages?

Oh, I forgot, we invest nearly every penny into Finch Farm, a place that our board of wankers sold to rent back at £2M a year. No doubt one of the Board's cronies is involved somewhere collecting the rent.

I know about the £24m "Other Operating Expenses"; and can hardly believe that any competent auditor would accept such a significant item being included under a 'miscellaneous' heading. Would any of you BoysPenBill watchers (or anybody else for that matter) like to try to enlighten me in terms of what, exactly, might be included there?

Other operating expenses often include commercially sensitive contracts for one Ken. Such things as suppliers who might not want it to be known what price a business gets their product/services for as it may impact relationships with other customers.

For example if we get a discount rate for the eleccy bill and that item were publically detailed in the accounts then another organisation may see that rate and demand it from the supplier. That supplier may therefore, to get the discount rate, request it not be explicitly detailed. 'Miscellaneous' is a good place to squirrel that sort of thing away. Certainly it's something I've written into contracts at the behest of a supplier that was willing to offer a good price to get work but didn't want to jeopardise other contracts.

Cant see it explains £24M, but, that will likely cover some of it.

Hahahaha — it's the leccy bill!

ORRRR...

Hahahaha — it's the leccy, Bill!

Its not a utilty supplier as not a single man jack of them in the UK would offer a halfpenny discount to anyone. I thought it was those solid platinum lawnmowers. Where's the LICkers explanation?

Coiln#734, a superb and more detailed than can be usually got on here response. It looks like you know more than most, but you spoiled it with the comments in the last line of the second paragraph and the first line of the last paragraph. No need and in a serious comment, not funny.

Re the last paragraph, were they looking to sell a part of the footprint? Forgive my ignorance but who are Williams Tarr?

Ian. I'm sure Colin will answer your question(s) himself, just struggling to understand what is troubling you about the parts of the post you mention.

Colin #962, the "cos he's a blue" and "brilliant business" IMHO detract from excellent points that are raised in a very informative post.

Yes but "cos he's a blue" has got him more mileage than he deserves. The "brilliant business" line is ironic, surely.

Can't see the issue tbh.

Ian,

Google Williams Tarr. One thing you can be sure of, the information posted by Colin will be 100% correct. He always does his homework before making comment. One or two on the EFC board could and should follow his example.

Oh so that's were the Park End money went Bill.

Paul, thanks for the tip re Colin. I have to confess to never having been aware that the club had planned to sell part of the footprint. I thought that the issue would be that the club would have needed the permission of the Mortgagors to carry out the proposed works and that said Mortgagor would have wanted to vary the terms of the loan, ie, charge a fee and put up the interest rate, in return for that permission. Seems in the current climate that is the modus operandi for lenders.

Ian, the Park End development is symptomatic of Bill Jon Ill's reign, a chancer move where he saw his arse and the club propoganda machine came out with excuse after excuse about why it wasn't happening before the truth came out from another source. Even after all that, the hole in the wall wasn't touched for weeks.

A club ran by clowns and bullshitters.

Ian,

No problem at all. You are not on your own re not knowing the facts over the Park End fiasco. It is not in the board's interest to let fans know how incompetent they actually are.

Many thanks for all your answers.
It's all much clearer to me now.

I think.

What a shambles!!!

Ian, #957, for the avoidance of any doubt, let me assure you I’m not attempting to be funny when I make reference to Bill Kenwright and the performance of the board. I’m making those statements for a specific purpose; that you don’t understand that or feel that they’re lightly flippant is neither here nor there as most, who have commented, understand the point I’m making.

My opinion of Bill Kenwright has never changed, it’s not personal, Bill may be, and most probably is, the life and soul of any party, he’s a bon vivant, a raconteur, he’s many things, but he’s no good for Everton Football Club and as I’ve repeated on many occasions I sincerely believe that for his performance as a director of the club not only should he be removed from the boardroom, he should be prevented from entering the stadium for the rest of his life.

I’m surprised Ian that you didn’t know about what that the Park End development was all about, maybe you're not alone, I don't know. That it was really a lease back arrangement, and as with any such arrangement, just like Finch Farm, it’s essential that the company paying for the construction, and operating the lease, controls the land or it would be like building an extension on a council house.

It was shown up as something other than, “a new scheme which is totally self-funded by partners so there is no net cost to the club. In fact, it's cash-positive from the start.", language which should have told you immediately that it was a right load of bollocks which was exposed over two years ago on the KEIOC website http://bit.ly/XwS4ap The notion that the £9m development was being paid for by Sodexo and Kitbag was equally preposterous, they were picking up the lease payments and as they're not a charitable institution one can only guess what they were being offered as an extra inducement.

In totally unrelated news do you know we're the only club to wear Nike for nothing? ;-)

I’m surprised that Clive’s article, which poses the seemingly innocuous question, “Who owns Goodison Park?” hasn’t received more responses, if I’m honest, as potentially he’s asked the greatest question ever asked in the history of Toffeeweb. It’s a question that should lead to questioning the very existence of the board that is made up of Kenwright, Woods, Earl and Carter. Just as the old football saying goes, “If he's not interfering with play, what's he doing on the pitch?” can't the same question be asked in relation to directors in the boardroom?

There’s been a big thing made recently of the Populous fan survey. I don’t need a survey to tell me a lot of Evertonians don’t even know who’s on our board, I don’t need a survey to tell me that 100% of Evertonians don’t actually know what the board members are individually responsible for in the business or what their last annual performance appraisal against their annual performance targets revealed because the board is a phoney board that does nothing and once you start asking those sort of questions and obtaining the true answers you’ll get to the root cause of the problems at Everton and perhaps understand why people from Liverpool regard Bill Kenwright as a joke when he starts to talk about being in the boys pen with holes in his shoes and being with Cavanagh in ’66. They’re not laughing at his stories, they find it grossly offensive because what the message behind them is, “you’re stupid, you’re thick, you’ll believe this” well sorry Bill, we’re all with Goebbels on this one and he was sussed also.

Colin, thanks again for another superb article, and I agree that this is a major issue and it, as always is directly linked to the ownership issue that occupies so much time on here and rightly so. I believe that I post more about this subject than team performance and other playing issues as I think that I am the type who likes to get to the bottom (eh em) of things.

I completely enjoyed your contributions on here, just felt, in passing that the two little phrases, did not help. I was non-aggressive or abusive in my addition and I would hope that no offence was taken or intended. I also noted that Paul and Gavin were quick to acknowledge your standing on these things. I repeat, no offence offered from me.

Regards The Park End and the project, I was told that it would generate cash straightaway, that the club had the funds to do a portion with it and that the "Pru" were difficult in them giving permission to do the work. The Kitbag element was to provide funds in exchange for having the shop.

Colin, it is good to talk with you rather than some of the antagonism that goes on on here and hope there is no issue in our exchanges ongoing. Cheers Ian.

Great discussion this, but i've had to bow out pissing myself at the leccy bill explanation!

I wasn't aware they broke the accounts down to units used....on the flip side, we might have a boss storage heater that's saving us thousands, manufacturer must be miffed they aren't getting kudos for that one.

The fact that Goodison Park is not really an asset of Everton FC also explains the lack of any redevelopment of the ground. It also explains why the only escape route for the Board is a new stadium somewhere else in the city, they could then give Goodison to Prudential and clear that debt and then take on new debt at a new stadium. It all smacks of terrible decision making at the highest level, these decisions may have been made early on in Bill Kenwright's tenure but they are millstones around the neck of Everton FC for at least the next decade.

I would also bet that any early payment of the debt to the Prudential has penalty clauses aplenty and that any form of default - ie moving to a new stadium will also see Prudential get some form of financial compensation as well as the Goodison Park land.

When Bill Kenwright stated that he wasn't fully aware of the finances at Goodison he wasn't kidding, he has to be kind to him unwittingly tied the club in knots and the only people making money from Everton have nothing whatsoever to do with the club.

With all these strange deals and 'interested parties' is it any wonder that the right buyer cannot be found? It will take a month of Sunday's to find that type of rich idiot.

.

Neil,

I have read the leecy post back 3 times and laughed as loud as the first time.

The author of that post needs a medal.

Paul Andrews if you have read the "leccy post" 3 times surely you couldn't have missed "FOR EXAMPLE IF we get a discount rate for the eleccy bill", The operative words being For, Example and If.

Haha, fuck me I thought there was only one poster who could take the "leccy post" seriously.

I am shocked.

Paul, It would seem that you did ;-0

I think we have a payment card for the leccy, I have seen bill topping it up on Goodison road.

Gary,
What does ;-0 mean?

Patrick. #156, not really sure where you managed to form the idea that Goodison Park isn’t an asset of Everton, it is, it’s in the accounts, valued at £5.3m; or that the charge on it, held over it by Prudential, somehow prevents its redevelopment, it wouldn’t, as it would enhance their security. However if part of their security was sold off to someone else then you can see what their problem could be.

If Everton Football Club Ltd went into administration Prudential would repossess the stadium from Goodison Park Stadium Ltd, a separate entity, and lease it back to the new owners of Everton FC.

Goodison Park Stadium Ltd is the vehicle in which not only the stadium is placed but the season ticket money gets placed before being released to the club throughout the season, which means that when you look at the accounts, at our creditors due within twelve months, approximately £9m to £10m of it isn’t debt at all, it’s money we will pay to ourselves.

None of this would stop the current owners investing any amount to redevelop Goodison Park, there must be another reason why they’ve never invested a penny into the club, ever.

Having said all that I think you’re spot on about the early repayment fee to Prudential. They did a deal which will bring them £68m, they use a tag line which states long-term thinking to create long-term value. You can bet they said, “no problem you can sell off the land we have a charge on, just pay-up the £68m we’ve told our investors they’ll be getting and you can put Keith Wyness’ rusting spade in the ground straight away.”

You’re also touching on the many millstones that any prospective owner would inherit including a deal for seven years that prevents us from earning more money than any stadium, filled to capacity, would ever bring in from Everton’s current matchgoing fans. All these deals can be bought out but yes there will be a cost that any prospective owner would need to address.

My own opinion is that the biggest obstacle to preventing Everton progressing isn’t Goodison Pak, it’s the people who currently inhabit the board room.

So, back to the question, who owns Goodison Park?

Colin once again many thanks for your explanation, I am old-fashioned in regards of what is and isn't an asset, if I have a telly on HP then its not my telly so therefore I personally wouldn't count it as an asset that I could turn into cash without having to pay-up the outstanding balance first and therefore wouldn't benefit that much from selling it. But I understand what you mean and I tend to agree with your analysis that it is the people running the club who have prevented progress.

But Goodison Park to many Evertonians is the soul of the club and therefore the knowledge that you have imparted may lead to more people questioning the general direction of the club now and in the future, if they haven't already started doing so.

Excellent comments on here in the main especially Colin's review. However, it is difficult as a lone fan to see what we can done — is the situation hopeless or is there a way to retrieve it?

1) We have no money
2) We have no fixed assets
3) We have few saleable liquid assets
4) We have no chance of selling the club
5) We may have no manager
6) We have a small old squad with no chance of replacing them
7) We have no effective commercial sales network
8) We have a pathological liar for a chairman
9) We still have some fans who are happy with the state of the club
10) We have the most run-down stadium in the league which won't last long
11) We haven't won a trophy for 18 years.

Is there a way out of this?

Mick there might be a way out for you.
I could introduce you to my missus.
All the points you raised would, in comparison, not look that bad !

John — oh no... we may have the same wife!

I would go for Steve Clarke, lets get a bit of Scottish Power involved with the club.

Thanks John and Mal what are your phone numbers.

There is a great article on the Keioc site re the recent survey. It goes on to mention the "second mortgage on my house to keep Everton afloat" shite from our lying chairman.

How he gets away with it without the media asking some very simple questions to prove him wrong is beyond me.

There is no way Kenwright will ever move out the Goodison hotseat voluntarily. He is living his dream, when his personal finances say he should be at a League two club, not one of the biggest clubs in the world.

His theatre company only made £668 grand pre-tax profits in their latest accounts. Him and his pals are set to walk away with riches beyond his dreams, whilst holding onto power by flogging everything that isn't nailed down. His luck has been incredible really, this board inherited a player who was worth more than they paid for the whole club. If you add the Lescott & Rooney money together, they had a cash injection of £50m!

Kenwright has the media on his side, and until this changes, we are fooked!

Anyone heard anything about this takeover rumour from the Ukrainian Oleg Bakhmatyuk? Maybe an April's Fool but the guy himself really exists.

Makes me angry that the only way to push this club forward probably involved Kenwright making an absolute fortune despite bungling the majority of his time at the club.

Hahahahahahahaha... Billy Liar is eggselling his usual bollocks with this one.
Roll up, Roll up! Early bird season tickets deadline approaching.

Sam, every season like clockwork to either of the following scenarios:

1. Season ticket renewals
2. Unrest in the fans
3. Deflection of some truth that's leaked out to the fans about the state of the club

Billy Bullshitter, Elstone or his media luvvies at the Daily Bigot (Daily Mail) or the Kenshite Echo will wheel out reports of interested gazillionaires, the club are going to bid on a half decent player or some other fairy tale.

The sad part is some sheep will fall hook line and sinker for it, its beyond a joke how predictable the same old regurgitated shite suckers some folk.

We can only hope that eventually Mr Chairman and his board leave our club, and we get some competent people in.

This has dragged on too long. They seem to have been here for an eon.

Colin, why all the oblique references about the board and other people pulling the strings? Why can't it be spelt out if you have facts that aren't in the public domain? And if it's fraudulent, why can't it be stopped? And if Satan is in charge with Bill as his puppet, what is Satan's aim with Everton Football Club? I cant believe it's purely to give his mate Bill a nice toy as the sums involved are large.

What conspiracy is going on at Everton, other than Bill and his mates not being businessman and Everton being relatively poor in global terms with a relatively poor reach in the fight for consumers' money etc? And a bit of incompetence thrown in for good measure?

I want a new owner/investment like the rest of us but sometimes it's like an episode of X-Files with Roswell thrown in the way people talk.

Ben, there is a new owner/investment on the way apparently.
Watch this space. The eggs files will be revealed shortly. (Roswell was sold to Man CIty to cover the latest debt.)

[Ed Note:... err... Roswell? Spooky... methinks you mean Rodwell?]

Bit bored, so I looked at the accounts of Goodison Park Stadium Ltd and there is one charge (mortgage) on the stadium, which is in the name of another business – Everton Investments Ltd – both companies have the same three directors, Kenwright, Woods and Carter. That's where the Pru come in, with a further charge.

If we ever do get to a due diligence stage, it would take another 5 years to get to the bottom of who actually owns what.

Ben,
No conspiracy theories required... just a bit of common sense. How do you think pauper Bill bought the club if he wasn't assisted by wealthy friends? What enticement could he have given them.....?

Perhaps a nice retail park on a site they couldn't possibly attain without a stadium development dressed as a community facility? Failing that you could just pay off the interest on your "friend's" investment via mysteriously inflated operational costs.... and no-one loses (except the club, of course).

By the way, there is significant wealth on our board...... I agree, that you would never have guessed as such given their investment to date.

Visit all of our rivals and see what their boards have achieved........ some on smaller turnovers than us. See how some have elevated their clubs by investing into their infrastructure, increasing their fanbases, attracting new fans and averaging more than us through the turnstiles despite rarely achieving this before.

We have been left behind in off-the-pitch terms, and soon we may lose our manager who has performed minor miracles despite the weak financial support of his employers. Then perhaps we will see the true state of affairs unless BK can find another miracle worker.

I never understand the new stadium costs quoted for Everton anything up to £300 million seems commonplace whereas these stadiums seem ok:

Derby £16 million for 30k stadium
Southampton £32 million for 32k stadium
Sunderland £26 million for 50k with potential up to 60k+

Just don't get it — are we making it out of gold bricks?

Ed note......No I meant Roswell.

Ben #305, I quite agree. Though I keep banging a drum on this subject we never seem to get to the bottom. Eric makes his comments, Tom above makes his. Matt adds his valuable input, but this well kept secret never gets concluded, and still Colin gets no response to his question at #179.

It is nothing to do with me, but I suggest that a permanent thread be opened on this subject until it is resolved.

Ian

Barry #318, it's simple, it's just scaremongering by the status quo, careful what you wish for, nobody's buying football clubs these days, Kenwright supporters to justify why the current board won't put money into their own investment.

Colin,

Am I right in saying that In terms of redeveloping Goodison, that the current mortgage arrangement with Pru could limit our options? For example, if the redevelopment was to be partially funded by some third parties (eg Hotel, Shopping, etc) then there could be a conflict (as there was with the Park End development)?

Also, if the original Destination Kirkby project had gone ahead, would Goodison have gone to Pru? I can't imagine that it is actually worth that much without us playing there?

Icarian redevelopment is an option you simply can't try what the current incumbents did and that was to lease it out to a third party, an easier analogy would be you rent a flat and ask your landlord if he minds you decorating it but don't tell him/her it's because you want to sub let one of the bedrooms without telling them.

Sorry Ciaran, bloody iPad keyboard made a mess of your name

Gavin and here's me thinking you had gone all Greek Mythology on us, you know that guy who flew too near to the sun.

I find these threads quite boring now as they offer loads of bullet points but no real substance if I’m honest.

It’s totally obvious what EFC have done with its assets: they have either sold them off or used them to gain finance (mainly cash) to prop up the company – cash which it mainly gives as much as possible to the managers and players. Its business policy is totally short-term and no long-term strategy is in place other than survival in the Premier League. In normal business terms, this is suicide... and I bet BK doesn’t run his own business like a football club; nobody does.

EFC Co Ltd EBITDA is dreadful, so they have two options: either cash injections from shareholders or use the company’s assets to gain cash. As the shareholders don’t have such wealth, then it's obvious they would go with the latter – it’s the only option they had. Finch Farm deal is an absolutely terrible business deal but it's no different than the last Labour Government putting high interest PFI against hospitals and schools which will eventually bankrupt the institutions it was meant to aid.

EFC is now worth more mainly due to TV money, so that’s a lucky bonus for the major shareholders... but, don’t forget, at the time of buying the club, this wasn’t guaranteed, so they could have easily lost everything. So if they do make a return on the investment then that’s life, I’m afraid, and we should respect that fact.

The board have made mistakes, KD being the worst, but every mistake had a common denominator: we have no cash flow whatsoever, nothing's changed – nor will it when you pay your employees between £50/80k per week!!

If this was a normal business, you would cut player contracts, that would give you an automatic credit to the bottom line... Will that happen? Never! Because the fans would go mad.

Everton is a causality of modern football, but as it stands we are just the walking wounded; behind us are a load of causalities. The institution of football is a mess and EFC is a byproduct of this so you can moan your hearts out but it means nothing unless we break the status quo.

Next time you all march down Goodison Road, have a little glance at the players' car park before you reach the main reception and you should answer your own question as to where have all the assets and money gone.

Kevin, #314, Everton Investments Ltd are the loan note holders of the securitization deal; all the clubs who entered into what was a fashionable financial product in the early 00s have similar arrangements – one such club was Newcastle, another was Arsenal. The loan note holder would have had a better credit rating than the parent and therefore make the notes more attractive to players in the market, which in Everton’s case were Prudential who are expecting £68m for their £30m.

Ben, #305, I’ve long since realised that life isn’t the simple black and white arrangement we all yearn and hope for, but, for a whole host of reasons, is a complex amalgam of many many shades of grey. I can appreciate your frustration at not understanding the truth about what's going on, I share it myself; but making accusations of conspiracy is laughable for anybody who has experienced what’s going on. What’s also laughable is the plausible explanation offered that we just have some incompetent directors, that they aren’t businessman or that Everton is poor in global terms with a relatively poor reach in the fight for consumers' money.

Everton are amongst the world’s top thirty richest football clubs, in terms of income we’re right in the middle of the 20 Premier League teams and our commercial shortfall can be directly attributed to a total lack of investment by a group of owners who have been in charge for longer than the other exceptions to the investment rule norm in the Premier League, namely Arsenal and Man Utd who, in place of a need to invest, both had differing resources to utilise, some say plunder, namely a huge property goldmine in North London and a huge fanbase. Whilst every other top team have had investment we’ve had sweet fa.

Attempting to expose what’s gone on at Everton is a game of cat and mouse; an accusation is made and before you know it the accusation is countered through the media, but, true to form, the actual accusation isn’t answered, the question isn’t addressed in its original form, you get the answer to a modified question that gets discussed to death on forums and social media sites whilst the media portray the transparency as a sign of an honest club run by that true blue fan who has given every last penny to his club.

Here’s an example: somebody initially raised the question about the other operating costs. At first, it was just a relatively lone voice but more and more people began questioning this until it was flagged up by the media when covering increasing fan unrest. The club’s explanation was lapped up by an unquestioning media; the 86p in the pound tale was an honest and a more in-depth explanation than any club had given to their fans and just look, other clubs had similar levels of expenditure so it must be a conspiracy theory that Everton’s other operating costs are something other than honest as the day is long.

Many fans accepted the explanation; others, perhaps less gullible and remembering the arithmetic that didn’t add up or stand up to even the slightest scrutiny when being told about Deals of the Century, being effectively free or being cash positive and self-funded by partners, were somewhat sceptical and rightly so — they howled with laughter as the chairman when asked about them didn’t know what they were before offering a lame, “is it something to do with David?”

Even a basic calculation taking 86%, now risen to 87%, of the turnover and subtracting the staff costs and the lease payment tells you that £218,000 a week isn’t a figure you could easily attribute to a few fields and a couple of buildings...

When the inevitable supplementary explanations began to be offered those sceptics began to grow as expensive medical equipment, lawnmowers doesn’t show as purchases or being leased in the accounts whatsoever. But it’s all academic because the level of the other operating costs wasn’t what was being queried in the first place, the 86p in the pound and every comparison made with other clubs is irrelevant because the real question concerned why the other operating costs doubled in a single year and despite in the first year they rose being attributed to the move to Finch Farm. Not only have they stayed at that level but they’ve steadily increased. Over £200k a week on what, specialist trainers and conditioners? We’re all in the wrong game.

That we have incompetent directors also doesn’t wash. Apart from Carter, who’s as big an irrelevance now as he’s always been and simply makes up the numbers, after twitter fan Wyness decided that a wedge was preferable to spilling the beans to the nationals after departing, we have Bill Kenwright the second most successful theatre impresario in the land, behind Sir Camron Mackintosh, who’s succeeded in an industry where you need eyes in the back and both sides of your head; Jon Woods, a very successful businessman who made a fortune in the software industry and has grown it through property development; and then Robert Earl who is worth more than the rest put together by being a very shrewd operator in the worldwide food and entertainment industry... incompetent? I think not.

When Paul Gregg explained to me, in front of a witness, that he was paid for his shares by Philip Green, shares that now reside in the BVI, it told me all I needed to know about what was really going on at Everton. Was he lying? Well there’s an obvious trait amongst nominee directors, they do fuck all; I rest my case.

People on here will explain how Bill Kenwright funded his share of the buyout by True Blue Holdings, is he claiming that he funded it by mortgaging his house? Who knows, the level of journalism or to be accurate, the level of the knowledge of journalists is either poor or they’re being prevented from asking those questions.

I remember this, http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football-kenwright-secures-pounds-20m-everton-takeover-1134639.html others will point to Anita Gregg but clearly, whatever the source, Paul Gregg’s revelation is telling and explains an awful lot why not a single penny has been invested and why we’re strangled by the need, under the circumstances, to enter into poor commercial contracts that are slowly squeezing the life out of our club, not their club, our club, our club who we supply with over £20m a season but aren’t even afforded the courtesy of the truth.

Understanding what goes on at Everton has always been a bit like a crossword puzzle, sometimes you can't get the clue but to some there's enough letters there to identify the word whilst others remain oblivious. You may have now worked out why nobody in their right mind reveals what’s going on and why people who were prepared to have a go previously now prefer to concentrate on other things.

Ciaran. #393. Do you know why Everton don’t want to talk about redevelopment? It’s because it’s relatively easy but it requires the one thing they’ve never done so we’re back to the same question about why they haven’t, the answer to which will tell you everything.

They would far sooner talk about unnamed and non-existent sites, “somewhere in Liverpool” as that requires no investment whatsoever. The other week on the Stan Collymore show there was talk about meetings with the council, do you remember the last director to talk about meetings with the council only for the leader of the council to emerge from the crowd of 700 and ask him when, where and with whom these meeting took place as he, as leader of the council, wasn’t aware of them, that was over four years ago, we’re still awaiting the answer! There’s nothing preventing redevelopment of Goodison, not the footprint, not the council, not Prudential; the only thing preventing that sits in the boardroom, doing what is currently not known.

Moving would be the better option, where to is the tricky thing and to even contemplate it you would need to be resourceful.

Our Board are a disgrace. End of.

Incredible answer Colin, if we could total up all the high interest loans, poor commercial deals, have our own training facility (as we did at Bellefield,) lack of boxes etc. I bet the club could be posting profits even at a well run Goodison Park!!

Hi Colin, I’m not disputing what you say in your post but does it matter what/who has paid for the shares. It doesn’t change the basic problem we have; we don’t have a major shareholder willing to cross guarantee the company so cash flow remains the problem. We can pontificate as much as we like but they have never promised at any point to invest their own money. I remember when BK got the shares and he made a clear statement that he had more chance playing in the number 9 shirt than buying EFC with his own money so we knew from day one cash investment would be an issue. The mistakes thereafter are made because they don’t control their own destiny so they have to go cap in hand to pay day loans be that from the Caribbean or the Prudential its not nice reading but to me its so obvious what they are doing and unless the fans buy the club or a new owner comes on board then the status quo will continue. Even if we have new owners we can’t even stop them hedging the purchase price back on the company. I look at EFC as a fan and a business and my needs are completely different and that’s BK biggest problem he is a dreamer that has lost control, he is not a rubbish businessman he just doesn’t have the answers to this crazy industry. To run EFC successfully with new players and new/improved stadia then somebody has to invest or even right off a serious amount of cash year on year. EFC just doesn’t have the fan base willing to pay the prices that Arsenal pay and United fan base to share the investment. Alderley Edge Investments (Man United Property Company) has purchased even more land around Old Trafford and they plan to build hotels and massive fans centre once they sort out the issue with Freightliner, yet a large proportion of their fans think the are the rubbish owners, at what point are they correct or not?.

Wow, this is a real discussion, no abuse, respect for each others views. And real, in depth contributions. I remain that it should stay open until a consensus prevails.

Alan Williams 479, a very sensible post.

Alan. Alderley Edge investments? Not heard of them or seen any reference on Google. Rivals to Gary?

Alan,

It is not just Arsenal or Man Utd who have resolved some of the issues that our club have so blatantly failed to. Look up and down the league(s), and you'll see that nearly all other clubs have maximised their resources to build squads and stands simultaneously. To make the most of the club's fanbase and potential... In fact, it has been an era when so many clubs have done just that — growing their attendances and stadiums.

As you say, it was obvious from Day One that BK himself could not fund a revolution, but some of his fellow board members could've certainly underwrote investment, as has occurred at most other clubs (most of whom without even our board's wealth). Let's face it, our relative decline hasn't just happened. They didn't take over 5 mins ago..... if therefore, by their own admission, this was never a workable arrangement.....

Why are they still there? Why have they persisted when all around us have built for the future? They appear to have gambled on Moyes getting us on the gravy train, and the momentum carrying us all forward, and eventually releasing them of their burden without ever having to spend a penny. This isn't a plan...... any of us could be board members if that was the level of endeavour required.

It of course doesn't explain the decisions and motives behind the diametrically opposed KD and DK debacles either. Arsenal's chairman at the time of KD stated that he would've given his right arm for that opportunity. We threw it away despite the offer of one board member to meet the initial costs. The structure of our ownership was instrumental in that failure, and the formulation of the ill-conceived alternative... so it really hasn't just been the case that our board has been dealt a bad hand. Opportunities have been missed, and mistakes have been made.

If everyone was was still in archaic stadiums, and fielding tiny squads, or not enjoying in some cases: the biggest average attendances in their histories then you might have a point about our club's calamitous state and the board's culpability... but almost everyone have adapted better or delivered more.

My biggest fear was and it remains so, is that Goodison Park has been ear-marked by some very rich people to enhance their property portfolio when the new Anfield really takes shape, whether that is in 5 or 10 years time. If I was a businessman and not an Evertonian I could see the potential that Goodison has as a site for redevelopment for non-footballing use if the new Anfield Stadium was built. Don't be fooled into thinking that the owners of Anfield won't build a huge stadium, because although it has been delayed and postponed, it will happen eventually, but not until all the pieces of their jig-saw have been put in place.

Imagine a theme park reaching from the Spellow pub all the way up to the Albert with hotels and luxury apartments surrounding Stanley Park, it may seem far-fetched now, but remember how the City Centre looked not too long ago.

The one question I would ask BK if I met him is why on earth did he turn down the opportunity of a lifetime when the Kings Dock presented itself and why on earth did he ever believe that Kirkby was a good idea.

There are many strange events that have happened to Everton FC over the past couple of decades but the invisible hand of commerce can never be underestimated.

Hi Tom,

In reverse, you can also include many clubs that have failed too – both with new stadia and without. If you look at the PL when BK took over in 1999, 13 teams out of the 20 have been relegated, 10 of them today haven’t returned and 10 of them have gone in to administration at some point – some over FOUR times – and poor Coventry City may not be allowed to play at their new stadium moving forward.

Apart from the obvious money clubs, only Aston Villa survive on a similar keel as EFC but their future and debt is allegedly worse than ours. Whilst the current board has made mistakes, we all agree this (even the board) they have failed to take us to the next level with the top 5 (now 6 – Man City) cash generators.

Failure can be measured in several ways and, whilst we agree we have not moved forward off the pitch, on the pitch we have actually performed better. I’m not doing this to support the board – just trying to put some perspective on our plight; yes, it could be a lot better... but also it could have been much worse.

Hello Alan, I know you're playing devil’s advocate so go on, I'll bite. Why do I think that who’s behind the purchase of shares is an important issue? I think we both know that’s it’s extremely important to know who paid because if they are one and the same, with Kenwright and Earl, it could be a potential problem; the rules of the Premier League concerning ultimate ownership are very clear for a very good reason.

My opinion, based on talking with journalists who hold information on what’s gone on, and the director who was the previous owner of the shares languishing in the BVI, is that Everton’s board isn’t what it appears to be; that the cause of that is the root cause behind why none of the current owners have any desire to invest in the club; why that lack of investment has motivated the club to seek out harebrained, non-deliverable stadium solutions; and why we’ve entered into poor commercial contracts simply because the alternatives all require what we’ve been uniquely starved of.

Of course Paul Gregg could be lying and all the journalists with the emails could have made them up, but on past experience who’s Pinocchio’s best mate here?

Personally I find it astonishing that we’re the only top club that hasn’t had any form of investment whatsoever during the tenure of the incumbent board. The only other club in the Premier League that had not received investment was WBA but they’re now investing in a new training facility and only last month put a £15m stadium expansion on ice due to there being no demand from their ticket sales. At least they have a plan and a perfect example of planet Everton; notwithstanding the fact we have no plan, we have no demonstrable demand but we tell the world that we’re held back by our stadium when the clear truth is we’re held back by this board.

I’m with you 100% over the fact Bill made it clear that they had no money... what they said was they had a plan, which I believed was to steady the ship, post Johnson, and then secure a new owner with resources; what they’ve actually done is turned a poorly performing business into a truly awful business. If Bill had succeeded by 2001-02 there would be a statue of the man outside our stadium with probably a stand or at least a lounge dedicated to him... but, like the ham actor he is, he just can’t get off the stage! But you're right: it could have been a lot worse; I just think he's been lucky.

Neither of us is naive, football, like any other business, is a cut-throat world where there are many things people don’t want you to see. There’s an excellent book by Dr Stephen Morrow called, “The People’s Game?” which reveals what’s happened in the boardrooms of football clubs as it’s become big business — and who could forget this http://bit.ly/10xP4Xx which is nearer the truth than, “I’ve mortgaged my house to save this club”

Something has to give if Everton are to avoid the next disaster which could be and probably will be being sold to someone who hasn’t the resources or the acumen. More by accident than design, we’ve avoided the Portsmouth, Blackburn, Birmingham scenario, but holding out for an idiot to pay their asking price leaves me cold to be honest. I’m all for rewarding successful entrepreneurship but this board has done nothing to enhance the business whatsoever and you’d have to question what motivation is behind anyone who would reward their failure by giving them what’s being asked.

Alan,

Yes several clubs have gone down and suffered the financial consequences of relegation..... but our relative success on the pitch has been attributable to Moyes and not the board. If we had had a lesser performing manager with lower league placings and resultant earnings, that precipice we've been walking would've been toppled over long ago, and we would've easily been one of your stats..... except we would also still be sitting in a poorly equipped stadium and probably evicted from the training ground too.

Comparisons with Coventry are somewhat strained though unless you're referring to the Tesco connection..... they have a fraction of our fanbase and haven't had a Moyes. Comparing them to us is more stretched than comparing us with Man Utd. Villa have also been poor in their choice of manager..... how better might they have fared with a Moyes. Despite this, they have regularly outspent us in the same period and have a stadium which can yield a greater income..... so I'm not sure their future is as threatened as ours.

There is a recurring habit of people confusing the contributions of the board and the manager. The board are there to support the manager and to move the club forward in terms of their earning infrastructure and commercial activity....... in 14 years what have our board delivered in that respect? What have our peers delivered in the same period?

Our net spend doesn't equate with our turnover, nor our turnover with our fanbase, nor our attendances with our fanbase....... we fall short everywhere. We are not alone (certainly compared to the clubs who have struggled post relegation etc) but our relative stability has very little to do with our board's contribution.... and everything to do with Moyes's ability to work within the constraints they have created.

Then of course there can be no excuse for KD and DK....... all their own doing! Years have passed since these unexplained farces..... and still no plans for our future.

Is the perception regarding King's Dock that the decision to abort was not BK's but some mysterious hand pulling his strings? I have always found it hard to believe that the man's sheer cussedness prevented him from buying into the deal offered by Gregg.

Of course, if as is being suggested, Bill is only a nominee shareholder, it might explain why his professed ignorance of Everton`s finances could well be an `honest` statement. Doesn't stop him being legally responsible, though... does it?

Don't be fooled, Mr Dodds, that BK is a buffoon. He is a snake of the highest order. We need to pressure him to reveal what the Other Operating Costs of £24million are.

He can allegedly visit Vegas and lose £3m at the gambling tables... or maybe that was a lookalike.

How he has such a good press is a mystery... or is Green too big an influence.

The club is corrupted to the core and eventually the truth will out. When it does I really hope Kenwright is run out of town.

Colin #414, what do you mean when you say the shares reside in the BVI please?

Colin, sorry to trouble you, but you will see I am pretty keen on this subject, and call on TW to make this a permanent thread until it is resolved what is what.

Colin please have a look at the "mortgaged next seasons" thread which was dead and buried, but I have just posted on.

Cheers
Ian

Motivated by making easy money and by keeping Spurs above Everton in the table. Some people must be pissing themselves. That's another good reason to win on Sunday. Greedy bastards.

Ian, "residing in the BVI" is a reference to where the Gregg's shares ended up when he sold them to Robert Earl. They are in the ownership of an offshore company, registered in Tortola, British Virgin islands.

The company's name is BCR Sports, BCR being the initials of Robert Earls children, Beth, Cara and Robbie. These are the shares that Paul Gregg claimed he was paid for by Philip Green; Gregg's removal from the board ended the power struggle between Kenwright and Gregg.

Offshore companies are tax efficient vehicles, you can read more about them in this article, specifically on the BVI:

http://bit.ly/UIs72X

At the start of this post, I pondered the demise of BK. I got a couple of highly predictable 'ha ha' responses and nothing since. Subsequent posts suggest share ownership by other parties etc.

So I ask again, in the event of BK shuffling off this mortal coil, who takes control of the club? And no half-arsed gags this time, please.

Guy I would imagine that his nearest and dearest would inherit them unless he has decided to leave them to some other party or entity.

Guy, any nominee would be subject to a Deed of Trust.

The history of the financing behind the March 2000 takeover is fascinating and, I believe, holds the secret to why Everton have not had a penny invested in them and is behind Paul Gregg's claim he was paid by Green; if this was the case then the obvious question is who paid the rest?

Mihir Bose wrote this article in 2004:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/2383344/Directors-wife-holds-the-purse-strings-at-Goodison.html

Go on then let's have a go at these other expenses - £22.7m.

- £1.7m finch farm and car rentals (efc)
That leaves £21m or so to cover transport, insurance, rates and utilities, ground up keep, police charges, medical expenses, I would think non payroll image rights, casual staff, possibly player loan fees (in), certain legitimate outsource/ non payroll stuff like overseas scouts, and professional costs.

I understand agent fees are amortised on the balance sheet so the above wouldn't be included, nor would any share of gate in cup competitions. Everton show revenue net of gate share. To be fair the £21m is comparable with Liverpool, Villa and Spurs.

However, with a smaller commercial set up, it's easy to see why some think we are paying consultancy fees to certain 'friends'.

Colin#838, forgive me, and I posed this in another thread, the accounts show the names of the shareholders/directors, surely if they are held in BVI the accounts would say so.

Did you get chance to look at the other thread please?

Ian#863, someone somewhere will know the breakdown of these costs, I don't know you or you know me, but if we were in business we would for sure know where 30% of our outgoings were going and
Would be on the case as to where, just like I am onto the Gas bill now and how I can manage/cut it. Good point

Ian, #863, again, it's not the level, it's that they almost doubled and stayed there, in fact increased slightly, the explanations, which have included expensive medical equipment and lawnmowers, don't add up so that's why people's suspicions are raised.

Ian, 874, there's no requirement to state this information in the accounts, it is on the shareholders register and trust me all of Earl's shares are registered in the BVI coincidentally at the same address as another company associated with Everton, Vibrac. There's about a million companies registered in the BVI but some might say of all the gin joints in the world......

Interestingly there was an article about this in today's Guardian - http://bit.ly/10wTj7a well worth a read if you're interested.

Colin, fascinating, keep up the good work in exposing the sham that reside as Everton's board, you must be like an itch that Kenwright cannot scratch!

It's all very mind-boggling and at times I am struggling to keep up. I must admit to being worried when we sold McFadden one January and didn't replace him as we supposedly needed the money to pay players wages. Other worrying trends then followed: the sale of Bellefield, the Arteta money and the near public spat when Moyes said he wasn't given all the Lescott money he was promised, only for Elstone to turn round and say Moyes hadn't taken the new players wages (Distin etc) into account. Moyes then asked the question of where the players he had sold's wages had gone to then!

There was the so-called 'yacht race' across the Med to silence Wyness(?) and then the 'free' DK stadium that would have actually cost us £78m........where the hell would this money have come from if the board's bluff had been called and the Government had given the go ahead to build it?

At last people are starting to realise there's something rotten in the Everton Boardroom. The smell is becoming impossible to hide.......

Al, #906, when you condense it like that it's like a movie plot, we should have a competition to name it, "The Sound of Bullshit" "The Bank Busters" ;-)

This thread seems go be dying, may I throw out a challenge? To those that go on about the issues of ownership and the operating expenses, if you do not add to this, then for the future I suggest you maintain your silence.

This has been the best thread I have read on here, most informative, and well conducted .

A vital and I repeat vital subject and I repeat should remain open as a permanent feature.

Colin, thanks.

Ian, #426, an admirable and valiant attempt to keep alive what I agree had the potential to become a classic, but a far more simplistic reason it's died a death is that the vast majority have already heard the arguments and have come to the only conclusion any right thinking person could come to: that yes, we have a lame board that lies through its teeth, a board who haven't an ounce of dignity between them and whose sole motivation is personal rather than the club.