Blues stars humbled by Seasiders

Anaemic attack and erratic defence.

2-0 to a Blackpool side that looked far more Premier League than Everton.

VEry disappointing.

I have a strange feeling the lack of travel and the Indonesian cup may help us. It is about fitness and one thing you can be sure of Moyes will have them fit.

The result means nothing but the way in which we played was very disappointing. If we don't play a hell of a lot better than that then we are going to have our usual slow start to the season I fear.

I quite rate Vellios but, once again, we are starting a season with too few strikers, no pace and little incision.

I'll get my coat.

However, performance and sharpness is a factor and we looked woefully short in both. Add this to our previous history of poor starting and it does give some cause for concern. Hopefully the players get sharper in the next two weeks before Rooney et al come calling.

I thought Naismith looked quietly impressive. Good touch, good awareness and linked up well with Jelavic. When he gets full fitness I reckon he will be a serious asset.

Give the lad a chance.

Well, regardless of all the 'it doesn't mater about the result... it's all about getting fit' bullshit, I think it DOES matter, particularly with our penchant for not finding form until Christmas.

Time we started winning now and hitting the ground running on 20 August. Surely?

But from the first few minutes yesterday, you could see it wasn't going to happen.

Blackpool were fitter, faster, 100 per cent up for it and, in simple terms, better footballers than Everton.

Half our players – and in particular Heitinga, Gibson and Pienaar – looked extremely unfit and as if they needed to shed more than a few pounds, urgently.

Blackpool wanted it more and generally outplayed us for the whole of the game.

We were Everton on an all-too-familiar off-day, panicky at the back, aimless in midfield, toothless in attack and clueless overall. Complete no-hopers from start to finish.

Here, in my humble opinion, are some pertinent and fair-minded assessments.

On the positive side:

Criticism of Duffy is unfair. He was as composed and effective as any other defender on the day. Yes, he made an error that could have resulted in a goal, but so did every one of his fellow back four. He can clearly be a good prospect and judging him negatively on one game such as yesterday is naive and unjustified. Howard, Neville, Hietinga and Baines weren't good enough yesterday!

Fellaini just gets better and better. He just covers so much ground and without being over-conspicuous (despite his height and haircut), just does everything with the minimum of fuss. What an asset. He also showed more passion than the rest of them combined.

Naismith wants to go forward and pass it in and around the box to create opportunities. When he gets the ball he goes goalwards, not sideways or out to the wing. Good runs made. Good impression made.

Barkley, even in a 10-minute cameo at the end of a game that was lost, really has something special to offer. He wants to get a shot in every time he gets the ball, takes men on with ease and knows where he's going to pass the ball before it reaches his feet. He played two or three quite instinctive, defence-splitting passes and had a good shot. Strong and confident on the ball, he could transform our team. How he is not one of the first names on the team sheet is beginning to become a worry. Why is Moyes not giving him a chance?

Anichebe put a shift in and and had a couple of good shots. To his credit, he did a lot more than Jelavic (not that I'm advocating a swap). Velios too looked like he wanted to take the Blackpool defence on. Lack of supply and support did not help either of them though.

Mucha made a couple of good saves and looked keen. Again, judging him on one league cup game last season is ridiculous.

Now, the not so positive:

The Coleman/right wing thing has to stop. He is NOT a winger. But compounding that is the fact that we have him tied to the touchline all the game and no-one gives him the ball. And when they do, they play it to his feet. He is not Messi, so if we're going to persist, put it in front of him so he can outpace the opposition full back and get behind the defence. All that happens now is that when he gets the ball, the defence double up on him and he either loses it or hits it into them. Additionally, he and Neville clearly do not have any empathy/understanding and do not pose any significant threat down that side. I think he has got some potential however, but since that man-of-the match performance against Spurs a few years ago, I cannot remember one game where I have been even half as wowed by his performance. If he starts against the Mancs and Barkley does not, then David Moyes gets all he deserves for being either blind or stubborn. His consistent lack of impact means we effectively play each game with 10 men. On a separate, but related note, wouldn't a right-back in the Gary Stevens mode be such a good signing right now?

Continuing on a Barkley for Everton theme (and please believe me, this is not my modus operandi here), if Osman gets a place and Barkley does not, we are going nowhere if not backwards. He huffed and puffed and made himself available a bit, but in a much longer stint on the pitch as Barkley he produced not one incisive moment - and when clean through with a chance that he should have converted with ease, just passed it to the keeper. Sound familiar? He offers nothing to our team and is holding us back. A good squad man, but no more. Change needed. Like Coleman, a nice player, but his lack of threat to the opposition puts us at a distinct disadvantage every time he plays.

Finally, a sitting-on-the-fence observation:

Jack Rodwell?

To conclude, our lack of incision once again highlighted the way we are so determinedly defensive in our outlook. My daughter is a keen Evertonian and came with me yesterday; she may not be a tactical expert but she made an extremely pertinent observation as soon as we lost the ball on the left wing asking: "why are they all running back?" I started to analyse the way we played and realised that only Jelavic, Pienaar, Naismith and Fellaini (when in an attacking mode), are offensively-minded. Coleman, regardless of his alleged attacking position, is a defender, so along with Howard that makes a total of seven defenders on the pitch.

We have a potential matchwinner in Jelavic and time we started playing to that strength for 90 minutes... not sandbagging things and hoping he nicks one for us. This has got to change if we are to push on and fulfil the potential we all know we have next season. If not, we will grind out seventh/eighth again but we will NOT get that extra 10/15 points extra that we need to begin making a challenge at the top.

Get Coleman and Osman out. Get Barkley in and create a more balanced, offensively-minded unit and stop this persistence with ineffective players in the hope that they'll eventually come good. We are on the threshold of something here Moysie, but it needs an Oxford moment. Grasp that nettle, drop your favourites and let's go for it.

Overall then, half the team clearly unfit. Unable to impose any class on Blackpool, we couldn't outrun or outmuscle them either. With two weeks to go, this was alarming to see. There is a lot of work to do before that first game and I wonder if we are going to get it done.

Last season he was developing mentally, physically and as a footballer away from the limelight after coming back from a double leg break. He is 19 in December.

He will get enough football this year, hopefully starting maybe 10-15 games max and plenty of sub appearances as he gets familiarised with top level football.

You have to treat young players with care, Owen was burnt out by 25. Look what constant football from 17 did to Torres, Norman Whiteside......

Barkley has his whole career in front of him and to expect him to be a first 11 regular in his first full season as a nailed on senior squad member is nuts.

Thats in the next season or two hopefully.

Nothing out of the ordinary here, lets see how many games Chamberlin starts for Arsenal.

Won't make any difference. The moaning is gonna go on all season.

Last season he was developing mentally, physically and as a footballer away from the limelight after coming back from a double leg break. He is 19 in December.

He will get enough football this year, hopefully starting maybe 10-15 games max and plenty of sub appearances as he gets familiarised with top level football.

You have to treat young players with care, Owen was burnt out by 25. Look what constant football from 17 did to Torres, Norman Whiteside......

Barkley has his whole career in front of him and to expect him to be a first 11 regular in his first full season as a nailed on senior squad member is nuts.

Thats in the next season or two hopefully.

Nothing out of the ordinary here, lets see how many games Chamberlin starts for Arsenal.

Won't make any difference. The moaning is gonna go on all season.

However, if you'd rather start (and finish), with Osman or Coleman or someone else out of their depth or out of position, that puzzles me.

Barkley has the obvious potential to be an exception to the rule. Were you there on Sunday to see the paucity of creative talent on display?

Never mind just Sunday. Most matchdays.

This negativity about his age/experience is an anathema to me. He has genuine, rare, young, enthusiastic, cocky, fearless, audacious talent. Indulge him, don't stifle him.

He's good enough now.

Get him in. Give him some games and be damned for failing if it doesn't work.

Far better to try than regret trying at all.

What have we got to lose. He cannot fail to be an improvement on the predictable attacking (sic), options we employ at the moment?

And Barkley...was not ready last season! I can't believe this continues...the Wayne Rooney effect. He looks a big talent, but has missed a year of his development, and he is not ready for a first team starter as of yet. I would rather have Osman in a central position than Barkley any day of the week...maybe I won't be saying that in 6 months, or in a year's time, but for now, I've seen nothing from Barkley to suggest he is ready for the demands of first team football.

But seriously, relax about pre-season. You don't get a winning mentality from friendlies...you get it from games that count. We just need to make sure we are ready in terms of fitness, which may be a battle for a few of the Euro players, and Pienarr, but at least we have a tough match, instead of a must-win, as the season opener.

Also, right mid is a mess...Osman or Anichebe or Coleman are all out of place there..maybe Naismith will do a job, but I see him as a second striker, and I think we must concentrate all remaining funds on securing a loan signing (or even a transfer...) for the right. Could do worse than SWP as a short-term fix.

Sam, lets wait and see. Usually you can tell if a player has it or not simply by the way he caresses the ball when in possession. You can see it . You could see it from Jelevic's first few touches against Spurs that he was a little bit special. Naismith isn't special. Workmanlike maybe. Positive maybe. Special Nah.

We didn't lose by design. We were worryingly well-beaten.

Pre-season results do not count, I agree, but performances do - especially given our appalling consistency of the wrong kind at the start of every season.

So if that doesn't worry you, then let's carry on as normal and keep the most exciting young player we have had for years kicking his heels in frustration while Osman has yet another season flattering to deceive and once again he - and we - fool no-one!

You cannot judge a new player on one game in a friendly where the whole team underperformed.

If that had been Jelavic's first game yesterday, what would you have said? Would he have been 'not special and workmanlike' too?

In what way is Osman starting ahead of Barkley some sort of indicator that we are going backwards? One has been in the team the best part of 7 years, is of proven premier league class, and has been responsible for a number of good finishes to the season including last years but notably the year before when he single handedly dragged us up the table. The other is a player with undoubted potential who has only started a few games and has a penchant for giving the ball away by attempting too much (like all young inexperienced players). Which one do you think Moyes will start against Man U? Barkley could come on and win the game for us and he'd be a hero, but playing for 90 minutes he could easily allow nani or Valencia past him countless times.

What is all this 'drop your favourties'? Does that mean he should drop Fellaini, Gibson, Heitinga and Jagielka? They seem to play whenever fit or do they not deserve the mantle of 'favourite'. Players like Osman, Hibbert, Neville, Coleman, Howard, even Cahill towards the end all get tarnished with this label. This is half the first team, the bed rock of Everton over the last 10 years, how many caps do they have between them, hhow many times have they performed consistently over this period? Drop them? Then what? Who plays RB? Barkley has to go the whole season out of position on the right wing? ( I'm sure square peg in round hole is always forgiven if its Barkley though). Its a good job these players don't read half the rubbish posted about them because if they uppedsticks and left then we really would be in trouble, yet some people seem to think one of our untested kids will come in and replicate their sort of standard and consistency over a whole season against the best of the premier league.

I'd love Moyes to one day pick some sort of ultra attacking team with all the usual toffeeweb favourites in there without a Moyes 'favourite' and then watch them concede a shed load. Then people might realise that football teams have to be balanced defensively as well as offensively and that putting out some football fantasy 11 does not consistently win you premier league games.

Take no chances, make no changes - and see no improvement?

Another poor start, maybe a failed cup run and a last-minute charge to just miss out on a European place?

Or shall we try something different and see if it makes a difference?

I know which I would choose.

If everyone is for trying something new then why not drop Fellaini? It continually baffles me how even though we have one of the supposedly world's best midfielders in the team that championship sides like Blackpool can run rings around us. Always easy to blame some one else isn't it, it must be Neville or Hibbert or Osman, although last time I checked none of these are regularly in the engine room. It was amazing how proven premier league and international talent such as Jelavic and Pienaar couldn't get the ball in offensive areas and how a classy ball playing centreback like Heitinga had to go long so often. Why doesn't Coleman ever get a ball ahead of him to run onto? Why is Jelavic never slipped in behind but always supplied from the flanks? Why do Pienaar and Osman always receive the ball with their backs to goal? Why does every midfield partner excpet Gibson including Arteta, Rodwell, Osman, Neville look terrible next to him yet all play fine alongide anyone else? Why do we seem to play better when Fellaini is shoved up front and a different midfield partnership is in the middle? Yeah the answer to all these questions must be Seamus Coleman, Osman Hibbert and Neville. Nothing to do with the players int he middle at all.

I rest my case.

And Osman, Hibbert and to a lesser extent, Neville, regularly get the blame on here (if 'blame' is the word), because they are clearly the consistently weakest links and are restricting the development of the team due to their well-detailed shortcomings as top level players.

Oh and Barkley doesn't HAVE to play on the right. He just needs to play.

Roll on January when everyone is as knackered as us and despite only having 20 points on the board, we can start to beat teams and climb to a respectable 8th place.

And no David, I don't think performances matter either. I don't think anything matters, because not only are the matches friendly games, but they are pre-season friendly games. We are both ready in terms of fitness, and more importantly, mentality. If you think pre-season performances matter, then Chelsea, Liverpool, Us, Arsenal and Spurs are all in trouble from what I've seen. Liverpool aside, I doubt that will be the case come season start

As for your Jelevic / Naismith comparison, you are just being pedantic. You know the point I was making. You can tell by the manner in which a player touches and controls the ball as to what level he is capable of achieving. Naismith on the basis of the technique and natural flair he showed is at best another mid table squad player. Players like Cahill and to a much greater extent Roy Keane massively over exceeded their natural ability but these players are very rare commodities.

So to sum up. Naismith won't be good enough to improve us. Barkley potentially could make us challenge for top 5/6 if he realizes his potential.

With Roy Keane, it was a winner's mentality. He could never understand the idea of players walking off the pitch smiling when they had just lost. The CL semi final against Juventus summed him up as a player. A yellow card that meant he was banned for the final and he still dragged the team forward by the scruff of the game. The only player that I can remember recently having that was Gravesen in his first spell. Mad as a loon but he burst a gut to win games every time he went out on the pitch.

What makes people compare Barkley to these two players is the fact that he is one of the few players willing to pick the ball up and try and do something with it. Coleman was the last player I can think of since Gravesen who picked the ball up and actually ran at opposing players. How often have we said that this is what a Moyes team has been missing.

Osman was also outstanding at times last season so the calls for him to be dropped for Barkley are quite frankly ridiculous. He should be given some game time but not at the expense of one of our most creative players.

And by the way, the shouts of playing Barkley instead of Osman on the wing and dropping Fellaini are two of the worst shouts I have heard in a long time. I have no idea where these opinions come from.

Saying that, Barkley aint ready to start prem games yet either. Start him in the cups and put him off the bench for certain games in the middle, and hopefully he can kick on, then we can start him.

And the other opinion is obviously we should not drop Fellaini!!!!

I believe the game was of little importance as an indicator of how our season will go and lowering expectations is no bad thing, We'll know more soon enough.

All the evidence points to him being absolutely atrocious in that position... However, Barkley shouldn't play there either.

I think Barkley should get some game time on the right as well as in the centre.

This whole debate is getting away from the real point anyway. We need a right winger, and we have done for 5 years

First and foremost it was a friendly and counts for nothing other than to get the players running about in a match situation and they'll obviously be playing within themselves as no one wants to get injured 2 weeks before the kick off. Man City got beat by some random Saudi team I believe in their pre-season prep, does that mean the champions aren't ready?

Secondly, Blackpool are no mugs - they lit up the premier league and took some notable scalps not so long ago, were on the verge of coming back up and are one of the favourites to return this year.

Thirdly, they are also a team in the final throes of their pre-season, who's competition actually kicks off this coming weekend. They are literally playing for starting places and if they weren't sharper and hungrier then I'd be surprised.

Of course none of this means that Everton shouldn't have been able to beat them and I freely admit that Everton didn't play well overall (despite some attacking promise), but you also have to cater for the fact that we've only just got the full first team back and there are players at different levels of fitness/sharpness still.

Finally with regards to Blackpool, I'd say the match has actually done us a huge favour in terms of knocking back any complacency amongst the players and making it clear they need to step up now in readyness for the new season. I'm not sure that a 1 or 2 nil win would've really been that good for anyone apart from the travelling fans.

Ultimately it's clear pre-season hasn't been ideal, the collapse of the Indonesian trophy robbed us of a couple of matches although it's hard to lay all the blame at EFC's door on that one as we weren't the first club to pull out and the organisation seemed pretty ropey.

Now however we have 2 games left against decent opposition who I'd argue are on a similar level in their leagues - AEK were top 5 in the Greek league, Malaga were 4th in La Liga and in Europe - and should give us a proper test ahead of Utd.
I'd suggest we at the very least hold of judgement until these games have been played - if we get trounced or look off the pace in both then that's the time to be worried. For now let's have a little calma.

N.B. As an aside to those who point out Utd playing Barcelona enviously I'd say 'wtf are you thinking?'
a) Utd and Barcelona vie with very few others for the title of world's biggest club, much as it pains to admit it, Everton are not currently at that level
b) If we played Barcelona, currently the best football team on the planet, and likely got absolutely battered (as may well happen to Utd), what on earth is the value in that?

The hype over Fellaini is more about expectation than actual end product. He's a victim of his price tag and over-exuberance...

If one was to be objective then he has been fairly inconsistent during his time here – ranging from brilliance to nothing short of incompetence – sometimes in the same period of play. And then there's his discipline... if he played against us we'd depise him.

In my opinion, he's an average midfielder at the moment, and I wouldn't be too unhappy if we received a big bid; however, I doubt many teams are looking at him without doing a fair amount of due dilligence...

We see Fellaini pretty much as the lynch-pin of the team, and actually one of our most consistent players. Sure, he can't do it on his own and needs decent players around him, but if you can't see the contribution he made during our improved second-half of the season then you don't see the same things when watching a game as I do.

He is still relatively young and should improve over the next few seasons at least. Unlike the players you seek to compare him with, he has never had an extended period where his quality has been judged below par (or significantly poorer than it had previously been) which is what attracts the ire of the majority of fans. Also, one mistake in a generally good performance is not going to get the same response as those made by players who have a history of under-achieving.

As for Barkley; I hope he regularly (every game unless he is consistently bad) gets 20 - 30 minutes off the bench so that we can all make a proper assessment. He seems to be above average in the England U19 set up, so he must have a reasonable chance of making it at first team level in the very near future. If whoever starts wide right isn't making an impact then we have to consider making use of him there, where his quality may get some results even if it isn't his best position.

I don't care about a players price-tag, his hair, or whether he is coveted by other clubs.

I do care about what he brings to the team in terms of skill, work-rate and committment and, seeing as players are very rarely faultless, whether their overall contribution makes them worthy of a starting place based on what we have available.

Considering he's the benchmark for a good Everton player in recent times...

I know they're different types, but it's a question that has to be asked if your bringing 'skill' into the equation...

This is the idfference between good players and the 'world class' tag that is often given to Fellaini. Someone like Pirlo or Scholes controls everyone on the pitch, not only their own team mates but the opposition as we saw against England. Ronaldo shines in any team, Arteta in his pomp was surrounded by far worse players than Fellaini is yet he singlehandedly won games for us and very very rarely performed badly before his injury, on the wing or in the middle he made everyone look good around him. Fellaini needs Gibson alongside him to play the holding role, he also needs two quality widemen because he doesn't really create, and he needs a centreforward of the quality of Jelavic to finish it off, without these his influence on a game is minimal as we saw in the first half of last season, or in the semi without Pienaar.

If Gibson is playing holding mid then surely according to ToffeeWeb rules then Barkley should play instead of Fellaini, Naismith has to play as two strikers must play, no one can play out of position therefore Barkley can't be on the wing, and Barkley is an offensive creative player whereas Fellaini is a defensive one, surely then he must start? Don't think many would like that though. Apart from aerial prowess (sadly lacking against Blackpool and in the FA Cup semi) what does Fellaini bring to the team? Not even half the player Arteta was in central midfield.

No one player last season deserves all the credit for the good performances, or all the blame for the bad ones. I don't play that game, as you insinuate, but it seems that you are prepared to if it suits your argument.

What does it matter if Ossie would fit in better with the Barcelona style of play (he is not actually as good as any of their players anyway) as he plays for us? I would be happy for him to play the advanced midfield role in a 4-2-3-1, with Fellaini and Gibson giving the full backs more license to advance, as I don't think he is best suited to the wider role or the defensive duties Fellaini performs very well most of the time.

Where do you get your figures from and what does '80% of his displays that are below this standard' mean anyway (it is only relative to the 20% that are stand-out so doesn't preclude them from being acceptable)? If you are plucking them out of thin air do you mind if I state that 90% of his bad performances last season were still 100% better than any credible alternative at the club.

It doesn't matter what is actually said on this subject because it all comes down to each person's perception, but it is a shame that you use words that are obviously intended to make out that those that disagree with yours are unreasonable, instead of simply noting that a lot of people just don't see things the way you do.

He was clearly at fault in the first half of last season because he was in our engine room and that room was setting the tempo for a terrible Everton side, yet no-one will attribute his share of the blame to him. If his Everton career ended now, all he would be remembered for would be that turn around Bellamy, ill-discipline, and stupid wigs. That looks unlikely to be the case, however, as no top clubs have come in with an offer for him (the same yardstick that people have used to judge the value of Moyes and other players in the squad).

We lacked the creativity and fire-power to make it count in the final third, but if you want to lay that responsibility on Fellaini then we have a huge difference of opinion as to what he is expected to (and normally does) bring to the team. There were players who are more renowned for their creative or goalscoring ability who were playing at the time and not making a difference, which was a more obvious indication of their ineffectiveness / loss of form at the time.

To me Fellaini's role is to be the biggest nuisance he can be to the opposition when they try to move it through the middle (in the air or on the ground) and then to be a link man when we have the ball and are going forward, supporting the front men and drifting into the box whenever he can. When Gibson, Pienaar and Jelavic came on board we improved markedly because the players they replaced, for the most part, had not been getting it done. If Fellaini had been the main problem then surely our performances wouldn't have improved so much with him on the pitch?

I wouldn't read too much into having heard nothing about approaches this summer. He is contracted until 2016 so we are in a good position to demand good money for him should anyone want him. Wait until the transfer window is in its last week; if other deals haven't gone through I wouldn't be too surprised to get an offer designed to see how desperate for money we are.

First, Swansea comfortably beat Blackpool 4-2 last night which may provide perspective of where we are in our preparation.

Secondly, stoke have agreed a fee with Michael kightly, a useful but cheap right winger who did pretty well for wolves last season. Think we could do alot worse.

Many different skills involved in being a footballer so the 'type' of player is actually critical if you want to define what skills they possess. In my opinion, not remotely similar to Arteta in style of play so to compare the two directly is pointless.

Correct me if I am wrong, but he was not bought to replace Arteta was he, and the current debate (between ourselves) is about whether he deserves to be dropped, not about who is the better player. I have not claimed he is the best player we have (however you want to define that) just that he normally does the job he is required to do.

Copied from my post at 212 - "whether their overall contribution makes them worthy of a starting place based on what we have available."