Fifa kick back late loan deal

What I would like is a bit more detail, as it seems strange to take nearly a week just to decide to whether a deadline was missed or not.

Did we get our paperwork to the FA in time, and have they messed up by not processing it quickly enough, or was our paperwork just not ready in time? The second scenario I can accept as it seems likely that this was a rush job and the time was always against it, but if it is the first I want heads to roll.

It is a shame though. I was happy enough with our transfer activity this time last week, now it is like having a really good night out but finding in the morning you have lost a tenner on the way home!

Have to hope everyone plays well enough that we aren't left saying 'if only...', and maybe it will happen in January.

Is what you have written at 282 official as well? That would be an obvious example of double standards.

Possibly not a good idea to take on Fifa but they should have to give a proper account of what has happened. Holding my breath now...

I'm not sure about an appeal...It seems we have grounds for one, but I can't recall any recent ones.

I was really hoping that Nev and Heits would stay out of midfield so let's hope this desire to play Fallaini up front isn't shown often.

Ofoe was a last ditch attempt to sign a midfielder and unfortunately we were late in getting the deal done.

We've lost one of the last twelve games without him so we just have to get on with it and maybe try for him again in January if Moyes is determined to get him.

I notice Mirallas went off at half time today for Belgium, hope he's not injured, or early optimism may start to drain away a little.

In other news:
"And who is this Everton? Aren't they in Chile?"
"No, this is the other Everton, from Liverpool."
"Ah! Liverpool, why didn't you say Liverpool – OK, make the exception for the 5 timers."
"No, you misunderstand, Fifa World Team of the Year, 1985..."

Well, I hope we see Barkley, but Neville will probably step up, along with Hibbert and Osman. As you were... And optimism takes a knock.

Shame as this guy looked the business. Bets are off that he ends up at another club now in January...

If Neville or jonny play a lot of games in midfield this year, it will be depessing. Get some magic water and sponge on Gibbo's leg quick!

Can we at least sort out a loan for January NOW so the lad can join 1 Jan 2013?

http://www.hln.be/hln/nl/2730/Belgisch-Voetbal/article/detail/1497646/2012/09/07/Vadis-mag-niet-naar-Everton.dhtml?utm_source=RSSReader&utm_medium=RSS Normal Service?

From the statement on the OS the club haven't given up on this yet. European Court here we come???

Classic Toffeeweb nugget.

Oh well, suppose if we'd have wanted him badly enough we wouldn't have dawdled.

Although must admit, I was like a kid at Christmas on deadline day and the YouTube clips of this guy just heightened my excitement and expectations — I should have known better, this is Everton!

This one is seemingly just down to not having enough time to get it done or maybe encountering double standards thanks to a jobsworth.

Maybe he means that it was always going to be tight because negotiations didn't start until we got in touch late on Friday (after our moves for Essien/ Nzonzi had failed and his dealings with Fulham had come to nothing).

It is that, or he is stating out right that we messed up.

Probably just a tactical sub with Wales having had the centre half sent off, Belgium then brought an out and out striker on.

Followed by withdrawing in silence to consider their options BS. It's shockingly pathetic, or am I reading it wrong?

We were waiting on other targets and when they fell through we were too late to do the necessary paperwork on VOO. End of.

http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/liverpool-news/regional-news/2012/09/06/liverpool-law-firm-advised-on-everton-fc-transfers-99623-31772656/

Who's telling porkies here, and why?

If, on the other hand, it's a cock-up by a FIFA administrator then that person is the very opposite of a jobsworth - it is someone NOT doing their job!

Used jobsworth because people are claiming other clubs have had the rules bent for them, and the club are claiming that they did their bit in time.

Is it possible, however, that the club did indeed submit in time but some administrative cock-up between the respective FA's meant it wasn't processed before the deadline. In that case the FA's would back the deal but a 'jobsworth' at FIFA could look at the timing and rule it out on that basis. That would be unfair and we would have a good case.

Suppose we all need to wait and see what actually happened before we can point the finger.

But today, Everton seem to be in denial. Significantly, they don't quote the 11 pm deadline, but the 31 August deadline...

I just wonder if some numpty thought the deadline was midnight...

That's my contribution to the conspiracy theory. If true, it ranks alongside Messers Gosling and Nyarko for sheer incompetence. (There was another one but thankfully I've forgotten it.)

People are indeed claiming other clubs have the rules bent for them. Sheer paranoia. Just before the cup semi final, there were a lot of people on here saying that LFC should be known as 'The Victims' because they were full of self pity and thought the whole world was against them. Well, let's try and avoid doing the very same thing shall we?

I repeat: either the club did NOT get it though on time (which I am inclined to believe) or FIFA have fucked up, in which case someone has not done their job properly. But the whole point of a deadline is to provide a meaningful cut-off point. If 1 minute late is actually OK then so is 5 minutes or 10 minutes of whatever. There simply has to be a point which is "too late".

If we appeal successfully then I'll be chuffed because the lad looks useful.

Got to give Barkley a run out now... Please not Neville centre mid.

When exactly did we submit the paperwork?
Did any other club get an extension that we didn't also exceed?
Are the EPL and the two respective FA's really happy to back the deal?

From what was on the OS last Friday no-one should have been unaware that the deadline for transfers was 11 pm. There did seem to be a belief that loan deals may get treated slightly differently, though that may have been limited to the fact that they were quicker to process.

As I have said, I used it on the basis that there may have been double standards applied in this situation (based on the information that is being touted by the club).

I don't know who's telling the truth. Neither FIFA or Everton cover themselves in glory when it comes to truth telling.

No doubt Robert Elstone will be down the Citizen's Advice Bureau in the morning, saying: "It's really unfair. It was 11.59 and I was going to sign the loan form when my pen ran out of ink. I scratched my name on the paper with a dagger but FIFA said that was no good. Naturally, I had a bit of a funny turn, as a result of which I lost my job. What are my chances of claiming disability benefit?"

Personally have never really agreed that the transfer deadlines are a good thing, creates a very artificial market and if we're going to argue it down to its legal bones, surprised how it escapes the European restraint of employment transfer?

For instance, if you can prove that you pressed the 'send' button at 10:55, but some failure of the internet meant it didn't get through to the FA until 11.04, should you be penalised if someone else pressed 'send' at 10:56 and their's went straight through (I am presuming the use of modern technology in this case).

We need to hear exactly what happened before we can decide who to castigate.

Part of me thinks, the guy was behind N'Zonzi in the pecking order - how much would he have featured anyway?

The other part - we just lost one of the most exciting Everton signings in years.

FIFA won't turn back now. It's practically mid September. Let's just get on with what we've got.

Fellaini in his best position is a big bonus to me. Please don't put Phil there!

I wonder if we can pin this 'Deadline, what deadline?' fiasco on Big Vic? Worth a try, I'd have thought...

Bad luck? Conspiracy? Johnny Foreigner doing us down? Well, I'll settle for complete and utter fucking incompetence. The kind of amateur, mind-numbing incompetence that has permeated this club for years.

Surely to God someone was overseeing the last day of the transfer window and had some sort of contingency plan in mind?!? Oh, sorry it's Everton... We don't do things that way.

Not exactly a Ewing Theory but a derivitive. Let's see what happens now we lost this great player.

The Ewing Theory in brief: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=The%20Ewing%20Theory

However, it would make sense to leave Neville at right back and move Pienaar into the creative central position.

Put Oviedo into left midfield and switch Fellaini to central Midfield to cover Gibson.

Pienaar is our most creative player anyway. Alternatively, leave Osman with Fellaini in the centre and put Pienaar out on the right.

It's the versatility of Pienaar that helps us here.

Then, either Naismith or Mirallas can support Jelavic.

No panic guys. Although again, I am gutted.

Disappointing yes but we have a ver good young midfielder in roass Barkley with the potential to be the very best and he cost nothing. Perhaps we can use him?

1) Oviedo will NEVER join Everton - not in January and not next summer either. Because either HE or Brugge or BOTH will be totally pissed of at Evertons inept, inefficient, indecisive dilly dallying.

2) Spurs, Man City or the even the RS will snap him up in January.

3) FIFA will not change their minds no matter how much Everton cry.

So I'm all optimized out. Murphy hates us and has conditioned me to expect nothing these days. No signs yet that anything's about to change. If we were one game away from winning the league, another World War would probably break out.

Rory, sadly I can't disagree. At least when it comes to the numpties running the club. Strongly suspected this deal was doomed when we had heard nothing by Wednesday.

This must be frustrating for moyes as he needs another central midfielder, have the club a list of at least 3 (apparently) and the managed to miss out on them all. Now we are short in probably the most important position on the park. Would say Neville playing regularly in midfield destroys any shot we had at top 4.

Most of us were happy with our transfer dealings before the deadline, most of us weren't convinced we would sign anyone on deadline day. To quote Meatloaf, "two out of three ain't bad". Time to move on and support what we have. If you get depressed watching Neville in midfield, suggest you don't watch! Personally, I wasn't depressed watching him against Man United.

On a positive note, I had a very positive experience buying Swansea tickets yesterday. Very efficient service by phone and I had a confirmation email before I had hung up. What will I moan about now?

Gotta get on with it now but what does my head in on here is people saying play Barkley now, have these people watched him play he is totally wet behind the ears even more so than Rodwell when he come through. There is no way you could rely on him every week he nedds to physically and mentally mature I'd loan him out anyway and put Junior on the bench he looks a lot more at it than Barkley at the minute.

I almost completely agreed with your post until your comments about the ease of buying tickets for the Swansea match. Don't expect us to fall for that one. We weren't born yesterday, you know. What next? You think our marketing department is excellent? Unbelievable.

Disappointing yes, but some of the whining is over the top. And I know whining when it comes to Everton.

Yeah - claim THIS!

- grabs ball-bag, Paulie Walnuts-style and thrusts hips -

It may however, force Moyes's hand into giving Barkley more game time and introduce some of the younger players, although the recent run of losses in the reserve league may indicate the depth may not be there.

I do feel we are covered in midfield, possibly better than last year, I just hope we have a bit more of an attacking approach rather than resorting to Phil in centre mid against teams like Norwich and QPR who do not necessarily have the play maker that needs to be stifled.

Gibbo flipping Ireland off could be a saving grace come then end of September.

I still feel really positive about the season, more so than in the recent 4 or 5 years. Hopefully we will have a good run, and the fact we are on TV more times before the end of the month is a bonus. What with the Man Utd game, that means we will have been on TV 4 times in September – I think that is the same number we totalled up before Christmas last season. Almost parity with the RS.

Obviously it's unfortunate as we need the cover, but as has been said above we had two targets ahead of this guy who didn't come off, so this was a last minute grab.

We're not the only ones to miss out (Spurs and Liverpool had terrible windows comparatively) and in previous years we've always managed to sneak in a cheeky one before the deadline. This time we didn't quite manage it and Fifa aren't cutting us any slack, which I agree seems a bit ludicrous considering the fact that the rules have obviously been bent elsewhere.

Clearly it's not ideal that Gibson's out and Rodwell's gone (although to be frank I never thought Rodwell was that good for us – still can't see what £12-17M has been paid for), but Felliani can move back (with Mirallis, Pienaar, Osman or Barkley ahead) and if push comes to shove we've always got the Neviller!

There is not a shred of evidence that they “fucked up” that’s why I don’t bray about it. They made a late attempt to get what they saw as a very good but non-priority player late in the window and whilst believing that they had got the papers in on time EUFA has not accepted this. Tragedy of International proportions, how can they do this to us and lose a game as well.
Remember they actually know about transfers and running a football club, you don't

He was 3rd choice it would seem, and I am sure other options be out there with another half of season if we don't snap him up then. His fee might go up, or by the same token it could drop if he is unsettled and fails to put the performances in.

Perhaps we should go in for Lucas: When he plays for the RS, they are going to win the _____ [fill in your own gaps]; when they lose, it's because he isn't there. Sounds class....

"Remember they actually know about transfers and running a football club, you don't"

In other news.

Gazza knows about self-control.

Dale Winton knows about natural coloured skin.

Gordon Ramsey knows about not being a twat.

Etc blah.

Seriously, is it some 'uninformed dumb posts for charity' thing you're on?

Get your pea-brain around this.

I am not a military strategist, nor a general, nor have I ever been in any branch of the military.

But I KNOW......the charge of the light brigade was a total fuck up.

See how it works?

Consequently, your 'logic' is piss-weak.

"Not a shred of evidence"?

If Everton had all summer to sign the player and missed out by an hour (or whatever) they fucked up.

Plus to anyone touting the 'shit happens' theory - bollocks.

Far more accurate would be shit, lies, bullshit, fuck-ups happen....a lot!

Overall the squad remains stronger but still thin in terms of numbers. I'm worried that Ross B is now looking very much like he isn't going to have enough defensive quality about him to be that holding player in centre mid but surely still has it in him to be quality in the attacking midfield role. So why not put Felli back into the holding role and give Ross a chance in the more advanced role ? There will be chances now for Oviedo and when fit Junior. Plus Mirallis will only get stronger with games.

It's a bit of a let down but all will seem brighter when we beat the Toon under the lights at Goodison and hopefully Sunderland give the shite a going over.

The point being we want to see your piss-strong rantings supported by hard facts.

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/everton-fc/everton-fc-news/2012/09/08/everton-fc-blues-miss-out-on-vadis-odjidja-ofoe-after-club-brugge-paperwork-gaffe-100252-31792275/

Michael or Lyndon - on ToffeeWeb, how do I/we make website links into hyperlinks (ie, so you can click on them and automatically open the web page)? Any advice much appreciated.

The details don't matter.

The facts are we wanted him and...didn't get him.

If this was some one-off fuck up, of COURSE you could not blame them, but it isn't.

That you choose to ignore the past is up to you.

I see it as part of a pattern and if you want evidence of that, just let me know.

The facts are we wanted him and...didn't get him.

If this was some one-of fuck-up, of COURSE you could not blame them, but it isn't.

That you choose to ignore the past is up to you.

I see it as part of a pattern and if you want evidence of that, just let me know".

Eugene, I'm not ignoring the past – I'm asking about the present. You claim this is part of a pattern; it might be, it might not. It might have been cock-up, it might not. Is it so difficult for you to see that I'm not making any claims, except that you haven't given us any facts about the attempted transfer – other than we wanted him and didn't get him!! Are you adding that one to your list of obvious statements like Gazza, Dale Winton etc?

Have we fucked up before......?

Ray@429, no I can't remember mate, when was the last time we lost a player due to late paperwork. Or should I say lost a player due to late paperwork by somebody else.

Been a positive window on the whole, this or Essien would have been the icing but, hey, shit happens.

As for fuck-ups, Spurs and Liverpool hold the medals in that respect! Cash to spend, long term targets well and truly identified, but end up missing them.

Gibson getting injured is of concern, as he has been the glue that holds our midfield in its best position.

The difference is that this is an almost serious problem for the club.

We don't know how highly the club rated him. The fact that he was further down the list than Essien and Nzonzi may simply represent the fact that they were seen as more realistic targets in terms of price and known quantities. Maybe the club was actually thrilled when he became a viable target following the breakdown of his move to Fulham and Bruges desire to offload a player who wanted a move to the EPL.

I am not angry, I am disappointed and that has been sharpened by a lack of information on the process of transfers and the progression of this one in particular.

Having transfer windows is the problem.

Our midfield is Gibson, and Fellaini, Osman can cover for Gibson, but Barkley is not ready and Junior is injured. Looks bleak when we resort to playing Neville as a midfielder.

We must avoid playing Neville at midfield at all cost, he does nothing for us there. Heitinga is also weak at midfield. I would go for Barkley over Neville every time. Neville is a 35 year old defender, not a midfielder.

I think the Belgian club fucked the deal, they maybe did not want to let him go.

We lost a couple of million when he left for nothing. I wonder if anyone got the bullet for that one?

£10m up front for Rooney was daylight robbery – the best young English player of his generation.

Krøldrup was signed for £5m and never even given a go, what was that about ?

Yakubu was a beauty – West Ham offered £6m, we refused and they then offered £2m!! Did Blackburn really pay £1.5m for a striker who went on to score 17 League goals?

Don't even get me started on Yobo – the longest transfer saga in modern day football.

It may not have been the club's fault on this one, but their track record does not fill you with confidence.

The HTML code for making a live link in a post is like this:

[a href="http://..." target="_blank"]Liverpool Echo[/a]

...except that you must replace the square brackets with angle brackets, <, >.

And when you do that, it looks like this:

Liverpool Echo.

The syntax is unforgiving, so don't make any mistakes!!!

Personally, I'm going for a large glass of ice-cold French cider, but each to his own...

Bought Arteta for £2M... sold for £10M.
Bought Cahill for only £1.5M!
Bought Lescott for £3M and sold him for £24M – 8 times his value.
Bought McFadden for £1.25M and sold him for £5M
Bought Baines for £5M, Jags for £4mil, Gibson for £500k, Saha on a free and Jelavic for £5.5M?

Yeah, but we are worse than everyone...

Remember when Alex Ferguson lost it one summer, and filled his team with the likes of Kleberson, Djemba Djemba and Miller? Remember when United spent £7M on a Portuguese lower division player they’d never seen play? Remember that goalie from Italy?

Remember when Liverpool let Carroll go, and then failed to bring in another striker, because they couldn’t find £2M for one of the best bargains in recent Premier League history? Remember when they bought Aquilani for £20M and then let him go out on loan twice, before a cut-price move to Fiorentina? Or signed Henderson for over £16M, when Steve Bruce supposedly told his chairman he thought they could get £4-6M for him?

Or when Liverpool paid £20M for Downing who somehow managed to not be involved in the assisting or scoring of one goal during a whole season? Or when they brought Carroll for £35M?

And Chelsea paid £50M (?!!!) for Torres, and wasted £25M+ on Shev, and all that money on Crespo, and on Mutu, who they subsequently fired? Or remember Bogarde? Or Casiraghi? How many appearances did they make between them?

Did you know that Arsenal, and one of the lower division sides I can't remember, both had Yaya Toure on trial? Arsenal also had a chance to sign Ibrahamovic, but would only take him on trial first, so he rejected them? And had a chance to sign Christiano Ronaldo.

I could go on... Please get out of your heads the notion that our failures are somehow unique...I can only assume it comes from an unawareness of other team’s failures, and because we, as fans of Everton, remember our errors in comparison to other teams. We are no different to the rest, and I think we are better than a lot of teams, most especially our floundering neighbours.

This guy wasn’t our main target. It’s unfortunate now, because we’ve all got excited, and we need a centre midfielder. But Gibson, even if he is out for a month, will only miss 3 prem games, and a Capital One game away to Leeds... Fellaini alongside Neville, is still one of the better central mids in this division... and yes, I say Neville, because we need someone disciplined, and Heitinga has been even worse than Neville in games in which I've seen him play in a midfield position.

Against Newcastle, we could line up with: Howard, Hibbert, Jags, Heitinga, Baines, Neville, Fellaini, Pienaar, Naismith/Osman, Mirallas and Jelavic...

One year ago, we lined up against Villa with: Howard, Hibbert, Jags, Distin, Baines, Barkley, Osman, Rodwell, Fellaini, Drenthe and Vellios...

It’s got a lot better, hasn’t it? And from the looks of things, we will have the capacity to bring someone in in January, and perhaps Donovan and Cahill on temporary loans.

Maybe you are missing the point – the point I was trying to address was how we conduct our business, not our net spend or successful purchases. I believe Moyes has had excellent value for money during his tenure.

I would ask what other club in the Premier League has lost money because a player's contract ran out without someone even realising??? The Gosling debacle was gross mis-management – nothing to do with our transfer policy.

I also believe we let Rooney go because we were desperate for money and got shafted on that deal. Again, poor business on our behalf – what deal do you think Daniel Levy would have put together if they were selling Rooney?

Can anyone shed any light on whether we can appeal given the ratification by FA, UEFA, etc.? It seems that club officials are convinced that they did everything right.

(Before we get any conspiracy theories, this loan deal went completely under the radar as far as I can see. There was no lead-up to it so the usual "pacify the fans with an ambitious but empty gesture" theory goes out of the window. And if the FA, UEFA et al ratified it, how can it be a cock-up by the club? I speak with complete humility on the subject as the rules and regs of transfers are a mystery to me.)

And with respect to Rooney...we got over 25million for him. We were not shafted. He was a fantastic prospect, with a very good strike rate, and over 25million for him was a decent figure, even if we would have liked to have seen more. In the market now, with Man City and Chelsea competing with Man United, we would have got alot more...but we sold him in 2004, not 2009, or 2012, and therefore retrospectively applying his future progress, or current market conditions, to his price, seems unfair.

And Kevin, if you bring up examples of poor transfers, and talk of 'how we conduct our business', then the good business we have done, has relevance.

When you talk football, you seem to talk sense, Could you consider the possibility that when you talk about the running of Everton, you might be wrong the odd time? When you defend the board every single time, it just makes it difficult to spot the one time you might just be right.

We are never going to do well with Neville in our midfield, he is past it for sure; once a very good defender, now just a shouting captain standing still while others run their legs off. It irritates the crap out of me how Moyes can play him in midfield, while he has the choice to put Fellaini, Barkley, Osman and Junior there.

I hope Neville will refuse to play in midfield, where is his dignity? How can he play there knowing how little he contributes there? Going forward, Neville is invisible, he hardly pressed the WBA players while defending so I think it should be crystal clear to everyone that Neville is NOT a midfielder and never will be.

Without Gibson, our midfield will suffer, but it will suffer less if Moyes does the smart thing and plays Fellaini there alongside Osman or Barkley. Personally I would prefer Barkley because he is stronger then Osman.

Moyes's unwillingness to play Barkley will become very clear the next few games because, no matter how shit Neville plays, he will never replace him with a youngster like Barkley. Moyes has gone stale, he needs to take a chance on the few youngsters we have when opportunities presents themselves, like now with Gibson being out.

Moyes is overrated when it comes to blooding through youth, facts speak for themselves. Rodwell was the only young player from our youth system that got to play regularly, now he is gone and Moyes will rather play Neville then take a chance on Barkley. It is disgusting, we as fans should demand that our best youngsters get playing time.

It would be nice to start demanding that Barkley gets to play, force Moyes into action. Otherwise Moyes will let Barkley rot away in the reserves just like he did last season. Am I alone in wanting our best young local lads to play first team football?

However, one simplistic but telling question remains unanswered.....if the paperwork was late for our transfer and the "deadline" is sacrosanct, then how can Spurs be allowed an additional hour to try and complete a deal or how can ANY paperwork, even that delayed by slow fax machines etc, ever be allowed to stand if arriving as much as a second beyond the deadline????

When the board does something that warrants me criticizing them then criticize them I will and same with DM too. The problem is that in general I, like you, don’t really have a clue what the board is doing in any given situation but the difference is that I don’t speculate and then find fault with what I’ve speculated. Of course I can be wrong but I try to not say anything that I can’t defend in logical discussion that’s all. I have no monopoly on being right. When I’m wrong I’m sure that somebody on here will correct me.
Where the board has failed is in not getting much needed investment into the club but I can also understand why they haven’t been able to. I completely understand their policy, a very brave one, of selling assets to buy players in a gamble to get us moving forward via success on the field.

Read what Jim Knightly says above, I couldn't have put it better myself. Remember that for every opinion denigrating the club there are equal and opposite ones to balance them. They are being heard now that's all.

Anyway, if you'd like to phrase your question as one that can be answered I'll answer it.