A point from a dreadful exhibition

, 21 October, 177comments  |  Jump to most recent
Queens Park Rangers 1 - 1 Everton
Everton traveled to bottom club QPR for today's big game on Sky. David Moyes made two changes to the side that drew 2-2 with Wigan, with Heitinga and the injured Fellaini making way for Anichebe and Distin.

Neither Anichebe nor Distin wore the shirt of the Kick-It-Out campaign in protest to its ineffectiveness.

An early Baines corner after some good possession play caused havoc but a second was cleared past Neville as he stumbled and Hoilett galloped away, a lethal deflection off Baines and Howard was left sprawling as QPR took the lead on just 2 mins with almost their first touch!

Some aggressive tackling from Anichebe and Neville showed the annoyance Everton felt at going behind in such a disappointing fashion, and it wasn't helped when Howard slipped lazily for a clearance and almost gifted QPR another goal!! All the momentum was behind QPR as Everton struggled to reassert themselves in what was a strong and physically competitive game.

Park fouled Baines but his free-kick was a little too deep and difficult for Jagielka to control. Anichebe was getting the ball down right but not using it well or he was getting pushed off the ball by Granero. Howard was looking very nervy, misjudging a wide ball forward.

Pienaar got clipped in a really dangerous position, giving Jelavic a glorious free-kick opportunity after Baines's dummy run-over but Cesar had set himself well to save the curling shot around the wall.

Everton started to build steadily from the back, with lots of patient sideways passing that was a little too slow to penetrate the massed QPR lines. Pienaar was playing a central/right-channel role partnering Anichebe, with Mirallas sticking to the left in front of Baines, and it looked at times as the re-jig was not really clicking.

In defence, Pienaar was called for a foul just outside the Everton area and Nelson got in a good header and could have easily scored.

Everton were not themselves at all, looking very ineffective in possession, and giving the ball away far too easily as QPR settled into a pattern of frustrating their efforts at every opportunity. The dreadful hoofs from the back were a horrible reminder of Everton Past...

On the half-hour, Moyes appeared to have recognized the problem, switching Mirallas inside with Pienaar moving wide left. Zamora fouled Jagielka and gave the All Blacks a great opportunity, a fantastic free-kick deep from Pienaar to the far post where Distin had got free, a header back off the post then goes in off Ceasar... 1 - 1!!!

Jelavic got free into the area, and gets taken down (perhaps too easily) when M'Bia stands on his foot but no penalty given as the ball was played out for a corner. From the corner, Jagielka with a free header he tried to place but it smacks onto the bar! Everton definitely back in it, the pace of the game much better for a short period.

An awful aerial challenge saw Anichebe poleaxed after Nelson caught him on the head with his arm... nothing given by referee Jon Moss. Amir then pulled back Jelavic in the area but again, nothing given.

Everton didn't look that much better in the second half, Park getting a glorious chance when Diakite beat four defenders on the Everton left to cross low and hard... somehow Jagielka brilliantly kept it out with Howard beaten.

Pienaar's got a yellow card and on 51 mins when referee Moss booked him retrospectively for a poor lunge on Hoilett that was unnecessary, and it would have serious consequences 10 minutes later...

Steven Naismith then came on after just 6 mins of the second half for Anichebe, whose head was still hurting badly. But going forward, Everton were sorely lacking, with Jelavic maddeningly playing left wing and no-one in the area to aim at.

Mirallas looked to do better but he still hasn't mastered getting the ball past Premier League defender as every effort was blocked. Neville picked up yellow for clipping Bosingwa as QPR attempted to break through the middle.

On 59 mins, Pienaar crazily barged Park in the back and received a severe talking to from Jon Moss, who made it clear to the player and the captain that he was being let off but would not be the next time. Moyes also got the message directly from fourth official Phil Dowd but did nothing to save his most creative player from the inevitable...

61 mins and Pienaar then went off for a second yellow, even though he hardly even touched Bosingwa (albeit from behind). BBC said of the second yellow: "He is downright unlucky because his challenge on Jose Bosingwa is hardly a foul at all, let alone a booking." However, both he Neville (and indirectly Moyes) had fair warning of what would happen. A real test now for 10-man Everton. The resulting dangerous free-kick was headed away by Osman.

Diakite was booked for a cynical stop on Mirallas, but his cross was dreadful from the short free-kick. At the other end, Zamora did well to shoot on Howard.

Better play from Everton saw Mirallas try a shot that was headed behind. From the corner, a fantastic chance and a point-blank save from Jagielka's header and a real scramble with Jelavic firing over.

At the other end, Hoilett got in a good low shot that Howard saved at a stretch. And it was backs to the wall for Everton as the 10 men struggled to contain an increasingly confident home side.

Two Rangers players went down in the Everton penalty area but thankfully neither were given. Howard then pulled off a magnificent save to prevent a superb Hoilett shot and Mirallas mistimed a block to give away another dangerous free-kick. Taarabt's hard shot flew three yards wide of Howard's left post

Jelavic then came off and Heitinga replaced him; Hughes replacing Nelson by Ferdinand with 7 mins left: Moyes hoping to secure the point...

Heitinga's free-kick was too low, but Everton got another chance when Bosingwa pushed over Baines. Not really a left-foot shot chance and Baines's direct rocket was a bizarre waste, sailing high over the bar.

Mirallas then got in down the right but lashed his shot wide. Then ref Moss wasted 30 seconds to run back and say God knows what to Ceasr, who was needlessly delayed from launching his goal-kick.

Naismith then got around the back of the Rangers defence but he was offside with a fine shot that forced a good save. At the other end, Cisse drove one wide as this complete nonsense of a game entered the final minute of normal time, with Osman on a typical run, losing the ball at the end of it.

Tremendous defending by Jagielka, with a desperate leap in front of Cisse to block an almost certain winner.

Alan Green (spit!) described this as "a miserable affair" and I could not help agreeing with him. A dreadful referee spoilt this as a spectacle with his incompetence.

Everton: Howard, Coleman, Jagielka, Distin, Baines, Anichebe, Osman, Neville, Pienaar, Mirallas, Jelavic.
Subs: Mucha, Heitinga, Oviedo, Naismith, Hitzlsperger, Gueye, Duffy.

QPR: Cesar, Diakite, Traore, Park, Taarabt, Granero, Nelsen, Bosingwa, Hoilett, Zamora, Mbia.
Subs: Green, Ferdinand, Cisse, Wright-Phillips, Mackie, Onuoha, Faurlin.

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Reader Comments (177)

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Kevin Day
1 Posted 21/10/2012 at 15:31:36
People are quite rightly pointing out that we are weaker without felli and Gibson, but we do have Mirallis, Pienaar, Baines, Jelavic, we have more than enough to overcome QPR.
Ciarán McGlone
2 Posted 21/10/2012 at 16:07:30
Shambles of a selection and formation today.

Firstly, Victor is not a winger. If you're gonna play him, then play him in HIS position..

I can't understand why anyone would break up the most potent left sided threat in the premiership... just to crowbar players into a 4-5-1.

God forbid we play Barkley and he makes a mistake... Nevilles well and truly got that angle covered.

Mark Lennon
3 Posted 21/10/2012 at 17:58:29
We were very very weak in the middle. It puts the defence under so much pressure! We need a machine in the middle!

I also felt sorry for Jelavic, he thrives on service and there was none!
Please please please, Gibson and Fellaini back for next Sunday!!
Peter Thistle
4 Posted 21/10/2012 at 18:05:22
The curse of the black kit strikes again. Can't win a game when wearing it.
Peter Jones
5 Posted 21/10/2012 at 18:05:19
I'm just trying to figure out how seemingly every game we get some referee that changes the game in our opposition's favor with a terrible call. First the Newcastle disallowed goals, then the Kone goal a yard offside, and now Pienaar's ridiculous phantom 2nd yellow. Did we play poorly? Absolutely. Could we probably have made some better tactical decisions? Maybe. But I'm really getting sick of all these decisions going against us when it is very clear the wrong call is made. And don't even get me started on the myriad of clear penalties we haven't been awarded. It's a joke. Combine that with our own failures like hitting the bar more than any other team, it really is crazy that we STILL are alone in 4th with 15 points. Pretty sure the only stroke of luck we've had this year is Fellaini's handball that set up the first against Swansea. It's amazing what we are doing but frustrating all at the same time.
Phil Sammon
6 Posted 21/10/2012 at 18:10:03
Madness.

Why didn't he just keep Pienaar on the left and Miralles on the right?

Brent Stephens
7 Posted 21/10/2012 at 18:14:31
ok peter, but come on, colemanballs definitely gave a pen away and got away with
Terry Myers
8 Posted 21/10/2012 at 18:16:00
Never thought I'd hear myself say this but Tony Hibbert can't come back soon enough. Coleman is a serious liability. And don't even get me started on Neville... Joey Deacon off Blue Peter springs to mind.
Peter Thistle
9 Posted 21/10/2012 at 18:18:42
Pienaar misses the derby because of red card, bollox.
Edward Simpson
10 Posted 21/10/2012 at 18:17:26
Quite confident that Pienaar's red card will be rescinded by next week, terrible decision by a terribly inconsistent ref.
Jamie Barlow
11 Posted 21/10/2012 at 18:20:42
Can't rescind two yellows Edward.
Jack Molloy
12 Posted 21/10/2012 at 18:06:59
I would have put in Naismith or Hitzlsperger for Fellaini and let the others play their natural positions instead of playing this silly game of musical chairs, which as we now know, spectacularly failed. Anichebe has surely proven by now that he is not a Premier League player and he should moved out of the squad for someone who has the requisite ability. The idea that players with Naismith's and Hitzlperger's skill and experience are on the bench while a dull-witted indolent makeweight like Anichebe is playing out of position seems to me ludicrous. I also take issue with pulling Jelavic off for Heitinga. It was a message, with close to 15 minutes left and everything to play for, that we had given up trying to score against one of the most vulnerable defenses in the league and instead focused our efforts on scraping away with a point. The three teams above us went a goal down this weekend and each came back to win. We folded - against the bottom of the league. If we play like this against our next opposition the scoreline will be humiliating.
Ste Traverse
13 Posted 21/10/2012 at 18:20:37
It doesn't ever seem to get mentioned, but getting caught out from our own set piece is something that has happened far too often during the Moyes years and points to bad organisation.

Not a bad point in the end after that joke sending off.

Too many players of our forward players had an off day.

Joseph Strumm
14 Posted 21/10/2012 at 18:22:46
No Pienaar for the derby, probably no Fellaini or Gibson but don't worry that midfield dynamic duo Neville and Osman will be our wall.

[Cue the Laurel and Hardy music.....]
Bill Griffiths
15 Posted 21/10/2012 at 18:21:05
Get real guys. It was always going to be a challenge if we got injuries to our top players. Today was a real battling display given the circumstances and the way things panned out.

I've got to admit my initial thoughts were Pienaar got what he deserved but on watching afterwards the 2nd yellow was extremely harsh and he's going to be greatly missed in the derby game.

We're still in 4th place why all the negativity?
Peter Laing
16 Posted 21/10/2012 at 18:24:23
Jags man of the match, ensured a point for Everton today throwing himself into blocks left, right and centre. Poor display from Coleman, Anichebe, Neville, Osman, Jelavic. Massive improvement needed for next week, praying that Hibbo, Fellaini and Gibson are fit.
Dara Vaughan
17 Posted 21/10/2012 at 18:21:36
Barkley might well have been an option alright maybe should have got pienaar off after he got away with it to some extent....that's a weird couple, the Barkley thing and not least the square pegs into round holes selection today.
On Coleman solid apart from that sky four def pen challenge, leave the lad alone. Today both he and baines never really got forward really having to dig in at the back and they stood up. Weird team selection Jelavic really looked a lost soul. Can't afford that next week and need the likes of Gibson, Fellaini and Pienaar will hopefully be available..please lets not make their season again and kick start ours again..coyb
Anto Byrne
18 Posted 21/10/2012 at 18:14:00
Moyes's post-match comments were spot-on with his assessment of the ref. Having said that, we were a bit light in midfield and for the life of me I can't understand playing Vic out wide.

Perhaps in hindsight he could have swapped out Pienaar after that first warningm, given the ref was a right royal cunt.
Eugene Ruane
19 Posted 21/10/2012 at 18:17:32
Standard of football today was very depressing. Leeds aside, the worst this season. Ball in the air FAR too much (Howard and Distin responsible for a lot of that) and what passing there was, was VERY sloppy throughout. Touch, passing, awareness - shocking. There seemed to be a real lack of concentration. As for Victor the winger? Ffs! (not blaming him as he didn't pick himself). Before Pienaar was sent off, someone on the live forum said he 'looks like he was on the piss last night'. I couldn't agree more. That's EXACTLY how he appeared. We were (imo) lucky to get a point and deserved nothing. Hopefully a blip.
Nelly Verdonghan
20 Posted 21/10/2012 at 18:31:45
Being positive....

Poor performance but still came away with a point away from home. Not so long ago, we would have lost this game —especially with 10 men.

We desperately need to get our centre midfield sorted out: Neville & Osman are just not strong enough in there together.

Hopefully we will turn over those horrible cunts next week... Phil Neville must Never play in centre midfield EVER again !!
Patrick Murphy
21 Posted 21/10/2012 at 18:22:21
Today was a point gained in the circumstances, but it provided proof that the squad as a whole is very weak compared to previous seasons.

Next week has to see Coleman replaced at right back by Neville or Hibbert.

Obviously midfield is in a terrible state, as Fellaini and Gibson are almost certainly not going to be fit. With no Pienaar, where is the creativity to come from? I can't see an obvious 11 that will give the other lot a game. Only Everton could lose their best 3 players a week before the derby.

As for the Referee today , I just don't understand how one man can make so many errors compounded by Pienaar's second yellow. I didn't realise until just now on the TV that the same ref was in charge at WBA.

The crowd will have to perform next week and get right behind the Blues, good old fashioned backs to the wall and defiance will be the order of the day, until Clattenburg or whoever decides to reduce us to ten men in the first ten minutes.

Mark Wilson
22 Posted 21/10/2012 at 18:21:27
Another very disappointing away performance. Similar in some ways to the struggle at Wigan. But in my view this was self-inflicted to a large degree, though QPR played much better, we started so badly. Why? Hard to fathom really. What made Moyes mess with the Pienaar/Baines partnership? It didn't only impact our creativity, it reduced Mirallas's effectiveness for much of the game, though later he showed why he can be dangerous and I think there's a lot more to come from him.

I don't understand why we have continued with Neville and Osman in the middle? It's a weak partnership, the game seems to pass them by, literally! Osman worked very hard after Pienaar's dismissal as did most, but the service to the wide and front men was awful.

Pienaar was unlucky to go and we will miss him badly next week. I'd gamble on a half-fit Gibson and hope Fellaini is back and in the mood, but it seems 50/50 at best. Things remain positive but gradually the performance level feels like it's slipping and I get the impression that once the "clear" first choice eleven isn't all available, Moyes struggles to find the right mix and today we just didn't gel, but hard work got us a point.

Moyes was very angry in the sky post match interview and called the ref "rubbish all day". I thought the Jelavic penalty claim was soft... seen them given... but I'd have been furious not to get one for that Coleman tackle.

I think we really need next week to see the team deliver a strong performance. There was a lot of talk today about maintaining "momentum". Well I'm not sure draws at Wigan and QPR really represents momentum, but beating the RS certainly does and we could go on from there to develop a genuine, and surprising, top four challenge.

Danny O'Neill
23 Posted 21/10/2012 at 18:32:36
I had an uncomfortable feeling today. We were poor and never really got going but the 10 men deserve credit for the way they dug in. As we know better than anyone, don't look at the league until Christmas - QPR on paper will be a threat going forward and having not won yet.....they will eventually so thankfully it wasn't today because I couldn't have standed listening to patronising Hughes! Never forgot his small club jibe during the Lescott affair!

Perhaps now that we have estabilshed internationals that are actually first choice for their country the international breaks effect us more than they used to. Lads looked jaded today.

Jags outstanding and I've not been his biggest fan over the last 12 months but exactly the type of game where he shines.

We deserved a point but can do much better.

Joe McMahon
24 Posted 21/10/2012 at 18:39:27
Nelly - 495, "Phil Neville must Never play in centre midfield EVER again". — Sadly many of us have been saying that for years. If this team wants to finish 4th, then Neville & Osman would never even be on the pitch.
Tony J Williams
25 Posted 21/10/2012 at 18:41:10
By far our worst performance of the season, no one seemed arsed, pulling out of challenges and Distin having a mare which led to Pienaar being sent off. Shit game, shit performance and two shit goals.
Steve Smith
26 Posted 21/10/2012 at 18:44:11
Well earned point in the end I thought, Coleman was awful at RB, midfield was far too lightweight, hopefully we'll have Felli and Gibson back for the derby.

Mirallas is going to get better and better I feel, and my money will be on him for first goalscorer next week.
Tony J Williams
27 Posted 21/10/2012 at 18:41:10
By far our worst performance of the season, no one seemed arsed, pulling out of challenges and Distin having a mare which led to Pienaar being sent off. Shit game, shit performance and two shit goals.
Chris Leyland
28 Posted 21/10/2012 at 18:51:37
Yes Joe but just because you've been saying it for years doesn't make you right does it?

Osman was better today than say Pienaar and Jelavic, two of the so-called 'stars' of the team. Neither looked interested, aside from Jelavic being interested in diving around every time he got near the penalty box and Pienaar being interested in stupid fouls prior to his sending off. Baines was also caught in possession far too often and caught out of position too.

In fact, Jagielka and maybe Howard asides, most players were poor all over the pitch today.

Graham Shaw
29 Posted 21/10/2012 at 18:50:47
For some bizarre reason we always have problems with QPR, only won once in 25 years! Yet with a little bit of luck Jags could have stolen it for us. We weren't as fluid as we have been but we stuck in there. Gotta give them some credit there.
Phil Sammon
30 Posted 21/10/2012 at 18:53:50
Howard looked dodgy as hell. Coleman can't defend and didn't have anyone ahead of him to attack with. Neville does a job but his immobility is really shown up in midfield. Pienaar had a bad game. The second yellow was a diabolical decision but he could quite easily have had one 20 seconds before.

I can't believe second yellows can't be appealed. That's a sickener.

Adam Baig
31 Posted 21/10/2012 at 18:52:04
We seemed to be sitting back from the start. Interesting that Neville said after that we were aware we would stay in the top 4 whatever happened. We seemed to abandon our new found pressing game for the old Moyes sit back and keep it tight.

The squad limitation is starting to show. Moyes broadside at the ref was quite funny though.....

Joe McMahon
32 Posted 21/10/2012 at 18:58:08
Chrisy Leyland, what are you on about? Many, have been saying that, not just me?

Yes, many on the pitch were bad... and yes, Jaqs saved us. But the original point made by Nelly (not me) still stands for many. Can you see Osman playing in the Champions League???? Think about it.

Brent Stephens
33 Posted 21/10/2012 at 19:12:18
Yes, Joe #511, but today's game wasn't in the Champs League - as you say, "think about it".
Danny O'Neill
34 Posted 21/10/2012 at 19:10:00
Why turn it into an Osman bashing session? If Hibbert had played I suppose he would be getting it as the other token whipping boy who sits in the "break glass in case of frustration at result" box.

We didn't play well collectively but ended up with an away point. No team wins every game or plays consistently to 100% every week. Fact is we have still only been beaten once in the league and as someone pointed out earlier, we would probably have lost this type of game this time last season.

Disappointed - yes. Time for the knives - don't think so.

Wayne Smyth
35 Posted 21/10/2012 at 19:08:12
Crappy performance on the whole. Neville mainly at fault for the first goal, too easily brushed aside at the edge of their box. If that was Barkley, he'd be sent to the reserves for 6 months, but Capn Pip seemingly has teflon coating.

Jags was one of our better performers and I actually thought Coleman did ok too. He got forward and defended well when he needed to.

The main problem seemed to be too many square pegs in round holes.

Wayne Smyth
36 Posted 21/10/2012 at 19:17:32
As for the ref, I didn't think he had a bad game. Could've given a pen for Coleman's foul, and Pienaar left him with no option having been told. Didn't see too much that he did wrong, or against us.
Ian Bennett
37 Posted 21/10/2012 at 19:08:50
It was a game that we looked more likely to lose than win. The pitch looked narrow, with the fans on top of the players, and they played with a lot more aggression and tempo. Grannero looked pretty good for them, so I am happy to take a point.

Another suspension adds to the woes, I just hope Fellaini, Gibson and Hibbert are back for the derby. Missing out on the Belgian kid again looks to have cost us.

Graham Mockford
39 Posted 21/10/2012 at 19:18:36
The criticism of Osman is ridiculous. I thought he had a decent game, especially in the first half, but he is always the target for the boo boys. Our biggest problem today was our lack of attacking edge, not the way we defended. In the main, I think that was mainly down to Pienaar playing more centrally and Mirallas out left. I think the better selection would have been Naismith instead of Vic with our normal wide formation.

I know a plea for perspective will fall on deaf ears but one loss in 16 PL games and 4th place looking OK to me.
Ciarán McGlone
40 Posted 21/10/2012 at 19:24:41
Moyes made a pretty obvious fuck-up and the cheerleaders are blaming the ref, the narrow pitch... ducks gone fuckin barefoot.

Peter Laing
41 Posted 21/10/2012 at 19:28:32
Wayne, Coleman was very lucky not to concede a penalty, he was also guilty of trying to play the ball out of defence in dangerous positions on more than one occasion when a hoof out of defence was IMO required. Naismith also should receive some credit as he showed a lot of spirit and battled from the off when he replaced Anichebe. Any news on Fellaini and Gibson and their chances of being available against the shite ?
Jay Harris
42 Posted 21/10/2012 at 19:34:54
The biggest disappointment today was that instead of throwing the kitchen sink at them we were like frightened rabbits in the headlights.

There are two aspects I am upset about:

1. The formation
Why the hell put Mirallas and/or Pienaar floating in the middle with nobody wide right or left??? (Yes, I know Victor was supposed to be wide right but he just wasn't with the program...)

2. Psychology
I have always said that top players cost so much because they have a winning mentality. Most of our lads froze today because of all the talk about 'banana skins' and 'QPR are due a win' etc — totally unhelped by Moyesy saying how tough the game was going to be.

QPR are bottom for a good reason: they can't score goals and can't defend.

IMO we should have gone at them relentlessly with our previous formation modified by Naismith up front in place of Felli.

And can we please have less Ossie bashing when things go against us. There were quite a few worse performances out there today.

Jamie Barlow
43 Posted 21/10/2012 at 19:29:35
I'd say Baines was just as much at fault for the goal conceded. He backed off and backed off and backed off and..........

In fact, most of our players except for Jags, seemed scared to death of making a challenge around our box.

MotM for me was Jags. The only one who seemed to give a shit.

A very long walk for me next Sunday. I can't handle any more of that against those twats.

Henrik Lyngsie
44 Posted 21/10/2012 at 19:28:05
Well, we can all agree that we had a poor game and actually were lucky to get one point.

I think our main problem is the complete lack of creativity in our right side. When everything is going through our left side with Baines it becomes so easy to defend against us. I think he ought to play Mirallas on the right side to have some creativity from there as well.

And then we come to our weakest point: Coleman. If he was an inexperienced teenager then okay... but he is I think at least 23. Everybody agrees he can't defend but I think he is even worse going forward. Poor passes, poor ball control and poor decision-making. I am sure he is a likeable guy and his fighting spirit and passion is fantastic but he just does not have the skills and talent. In fact I rate Hibbert higher than Coleman even when it comes to offensive skills. And please never play Coleman in the right midfield again!

Ian Bennett
45 Posted 21/10/2012 at 19:41:44
Wayne,

He missed two pens and sent a player off who didn't not make a challenge. It's a tough job, but the 3 big calls in the game he got wrong.
Ian McPherson
46 Posted 21/10/2012 at 19:27:06
Just on a few points made on here, we are not getting the rub of the green so far this season and I don't think Moyes makes enough noise in the media. Remember Dalgleish wanting a meeting with the refs over been hard done by? Suarez went on to get a run of penos and Rodwell sending off? They are trying the same crap again with Suarez this year!

And well Osman and Neville in the middle next week worries me. They worry me every week actually. Neville is a back up right back at best. Osman, Anichebe are not Premier League first team either. All will probably start next week too. Can't wait...

Robin Cannon
47 Posted 21/10/2012 at 19:46:17
Dire performance, so I suppose I'll take the point.

I thought the Pienaar sending off was entirely warranted. The referee had clearly warned him just a couple of minutes that he was in danger of picking up a second yellow. A yellow doesn't have to be given for a single challenge, it can be given for persistent fouling, which was the case here.

Only bright side is that we didn't lose, which is certainly a rarity when we throw in such a terrible showing.

Christopher Kelly
48 Posted 21/10/2012 at 19:33:23
I say a bad word about Osman and get blasted. In all honesty he was pretty good in the first half but disappeared in the second. Coupled with a better player he can do a job (maybe) but no one one earth not named messi could play next to Neville. WOW he sucks.

It's so depressing to week in and week out see Neville continuing to play in the center. He has to be the most limited player in the premiership and he's starting in the middle? What about Hitzlsperger??? He can't be worse can he? It would be impossible. Neville was completely at fault for the goal by the way.

I've defended Coleman here for a while but he looks like he still has a LOT to learn. He needs some attention in practice.

Jelly must be frustrated.

Mirallas lacks cutting edge or something but hopefully he'll really get on track.

Why on earth would moyes KEEP Neville in the middle but CHANGE the Pienaar and Baines partnership?!? What in the world is he thinking???

Mark Tanton
49 Posted 21/10/2012 at 19:52:51
Pienaar gave the referee no choice whatsoever - what was he supposed to do, give him a last warning again? His hands were tied by Pienaar's stupidity... Who amongst us didn't think 'Red' as soon as he scurried after the man?
Shane Corcoran
50 Posted 21/10/2012 at 19:58:22
Robin and Mark, fair points on Pienaar except was it a foul. He ran behind Bosingwa whose foot cam back and kicked Pienaar on the knee. Very difficult for the ref to see that that's what happened but I won't go there given what usually follows.
Michael Kidd
51 Posted 21/10/2012 at 20:00:33
Pienaar looked as if he was losing his head when he got the talking to. Moyes should have jerked him then.
Mark Tanton
52 Posted 21/10/2012 at 20:01:43
Shane, you're right but Pienaar should have eased off, slowed down and let him pull away. I am seriously dreading the derby – I will put money on a midfield of Neville, Osman, Anichebe and Oviedo. It doesn't inspire confidence. Who'd bet against that fucking dreadful, shite Liverpool side turning us over in what will probably be a rare away win for them this season?
Phil Sammon
53 Posted 21/10/2012 at 20:01:24
@Christopher Kelly

Hitzlsperger clearly isn't fit. So knowing that want other option do we have but Neville in midfield? Heitinga? Junior?

Neville is not a CM, but he was the best we had available today.

George McKane
54 Posted 21/10/2012 at 19:53:12
Not sure why being reasonably critical is called "...bashing".

I have seen every game this season and as I have stated strongly over many posts and many years, in my opinion, which I am fully allowed to hold, and fully accept that many people will strongly disagree, but I thought that we stunk today from start to finish.

Mr Moyes got things totally wrong again; I cannot understand the moving of Pienaar inside... Why not leave him to work as he has positively and successfully in front of Baines???

I thought Neville was dreadful. Anichebe was, well as usual for me, just nothing; we may as well start with 10 men. Osman was lost totally, I saw nothing in his game today. Not bashing him or using language like "hate" – I just do not rate him as a "big" player. Also, I thought most of the others apart from Jags were very very poor today.

I cannot figure out why though. QPR are dreadful and should have been hammered.

Again, I don't want to be labelled MOB or whatever — I do not like his style and I certainly didn't today — but I thought he got a lot wrong today. If we can praise him when we win and give him the "laurels" then we can certainly criticise him when we don't win games we should, and Mr Moyes has many of them on his CV — certainly today's game.

Let's see next week. I have said to most of my match going colleagues that I would measure the "new and more adventurous" Mr Moyes after the derby match based on his dismal approach to last season's derbies.

Still, I'm looking forward to it — obviously I would love a win.

Patrick Murphy
55 Posted 21/10/2012 at 19:58:19
Robin and Mark,

If Pienaar had gone flying in or made a stupid challenge, then I would agree with both of you; but he didn't... He was only guilty of chasiing back and having his own knee caught by the attacking player, where in the rules does it say accidental collisions are a bookable offence?

Earlier in the Tyne&Wear derby, Ben Arfa spent whole match fouling and pulling players and he wasn't booked at all.

John Ford
56 Posted 21/10/2012 at 20:01:10
Painful to watch, all creativity and thoughtfulness went AWOL, and in the end we just saw out the game. Where the hell has our passing and movement disappeared to? Basically this confirms just how important Fellaini and Gibson are.

I don't think there was a ToffeeWebber who didn't think we would struggle if we lost two of our key players, we don't have replacements of a similar quality.

Mark Tanton
57 Posted 21/10/2012 at 20:09:40
Of all 'chasing back after losing the ball' challenges, what percentage are fouls? I would think getting on for 75% or higher. Pienaar should have held back, he was on a hiding to nothing.
James Martin
58 Posted 21/10/2012 at 20:03:30
Why bash Osman? — he was one of our better players. Yes, he didn't see much of the ball in the second half because we were down to ten men.

Baines was terrible all game, as was Mirallas who looks like he's lost whatever pace he supposedly had. Distin was shocking too. It was only really Jags and Osman that played anything like they normally do.

Pienaar's first tackle all comes about because Baines puts him in trouble with a hospital pass, just like he did for the second one. When the pressure is on in big games or the team is down, Baines loses his head and that's why Cole is still the Number One left back in England.

Still I guess most of us hardened fans could have predicted what would have happened this game. We'd get an away draw with some dodgy refereeing and bad luck combined with an injury or red card depriving our best player of playing in the derby. Pienaar probably won't get another red card in his entire Everton career yet it happens the week before the derby.

I'm sick of watching this same recurring bad dream every year. Just like when Arteta was on fire but pulled his groin before the Van der Meyde derby, and like when Hibbert ran into him and broke his rib in training before the FA Cup derby. There's always someone missing or suspended or ineligible, or some idiotic ref or one in a million deflection, whilst they are always at full flaming strength. It's never just our best 11 against their best 11 in a fair match.

Christopher Kelly
59 Posted 21/10/2012 at 20:14:02
Phil,

I would've taken Hitzlsperger for 45 minutes over Neville.

Maybe he could've come on in the 2nd half?

Tony McNulty
60 Posted 21/10/2012 at 20:12:41
We never recovered from their breakaway, jammy, deflected goal. It seemed to throw us off balance and created uncertainty all over the place.

Jelly had no service at all.

The pitch looked to be a difficult surface and it didn't seem to suit us.

Finally, I blame Pienaar's haircut. Looks like it's painted on. Did Hibbert do it?

Barry Rathbone
61 Posted 21/10/2012 at 19:55:13
Injuries to Gibson and Felli prior to the derby gives old Moyesie the perfect platform to talk about our vulnerability and – like a lightning conductor — lethargy strikes the entire team and a crucial player decides to act like a tit.

If you look in the night sky you can see the stars aligning as they do at least twice a year... and of course when we play them in the cup.

Marvellous.

Paul Holden
62 Posted 21/10/2012 at 20:17:30
Anichebe's had his chance loadsa times - he's just not good enough. Coleman is poor and I didn't even realise Osman was playing until the 35th minute. Fellaini and Pienaar out against the Shite? Can't see us turning them over, even though they are shite!
Mike Oates
63 Posted 21/10/2012 at 20:04:26
Moyes got it wrong today big time. Why oh why split up the Baines/Pienaar and the Mirallas/Coleman combination. He clearly has no confidence in Naismith's ability fill Fellaini's position and link up with Jelavic. He wanted a "hole" player and decided wrongly to play Pienaar there.

Neville is so limited in the CM position and takes that extra second to pick a pass, he is also very reluctant to push ahead of the play as Pienaar was gesturing him to do on numerous occasions today; any pass to Neville is a backward pass and then Neville inevitably passes further back or sideways.

Jelavic and Mirallas were denied any good balls, even after Moyes got Baines & Pienaar together in the 2nd half. I've seen Boswinga (the QPR fullback) get the run around time and time these last few seasons and today he completely dominated any left wing threat we had. Our right wing threat was non-existent and I don't remember one cross from Coleman.

Last few points: Pienaar was foolish – he had been warned for repeat fouls and then 2 mins later gives the ref the opportunity to send him off, not just for this silly little coming together but for consistent infringement.

Lastly Moyes was bloody stupid to have a go at the Ref over the above sending off and the never ever penalty Jelavic decision and also bringing in a reference to this Ref's handling of our West Bom game.

Phil Skelton
64 Posted 21/10/2012 at 20:08:44
I just hope Mr Moyes goes for it in the derby... 5 - 4 would do me fine, Let's play to our strengths, abandon the defence and just go for it.
Peter Jones
65 Posted 21/10/2012 at 20:03:04
How people are blasting Pienaar for not initiating any contact on his second yellow is pretty outrageous. He literally stood behind him. Watch the replay. It was comical.

I also think the Coleman, Neville, and Osman blasts are out of line. I don't even like Neville but didn't see any part of his game that cost us or anything. Clearly Gibson will be out there in his place as soon as he's ready.

Coleman had Taarabt doing nothing pretty much the entire game and made quite a few clearances as well and our defense was actually quite good. The goal was a lucky deflection. Jags cleared off the line like a champion as well. Distin was solid as usual.

I was more puzzled by Mirallas being on the left for no reason. Baines and Pienaar have been our bread and butter. Why would you mess with the most stable part of our team? If there was any tactical reason behind our disjointed play, I would imagine that would be it.
Sam Fitzsimmons
66 Posted 21/10/2012 at 19:21:47
I'm not sure what options Moyes had other than pick the team he put out today. OK perhaps sticking Anichebe on the left was a little bit weird.

Clearly, Neville and Osman are not the most influential or creative centre midfielders in the EPL but they do have experience and who else could Moyes play in the centre? Guaye, Oviedo, Hitzlsperger? The reality is that the game today just demonstrated what we all already know – we've no real depth in the squad.

To be honest, maybe my expectations are set too low or perhaps I'm a realist – but I'll take a draw away to QPR and 4th place in October. Moreover, I can feel hard done by at being on the wrong end of dodgy refereeing decisions which has stopped us being 2nd.

As Lawro once said on MotD “After all... tomorrow is another day” or was that Scarlett O'Hara in Gone with the Wind?
Dave Lynch
67 Posted 21/10/2012 at 20:17:43
Moyes's 'pinch a fucking point' mindset at it again. Why does he piss about with formations the way he does? Replace like for like and let the opposition worry about us instead of trying to over analyse and adapt our play to the opposition.

When we go at teams, at pace, we are virtually unbeatable. He'd better buck his ideas up for the derby because the dark side will be well up for it.
James Martin
68 Posted 21/10/2012 at 20:23:59
Any chance of this red card being rescinded? Can't think of it ever happening for two yellows normally. What's the official ruling on it? May as well give up the ghost if Pienaar isn't playing, even with Fellaini and Gibson back it would just be like the semi-final again, Pienaar is everything to our team both on the ptich and in the psychology of the lesser players who rely on him for absolutely everything.
Andy Meighan
69 Posted 21/10/2012 at 20:13:45
Awful, awful performance... and QPR weren't much better either.

When is this manager going to realise that Phil Neville can't play football? Shit in possession, shit distribution, and shit leadership.

What is it with some managers in this country? Because you've played for Man Utd does not make you a good footballer. Moyes wants fucking for that formation today... As an earlier post said, breaking up the Baines-Pienaar combo was criminal — and Anichebe is not and never will be a wide player.

We were so lucky to come away with a point, as bad as QPR are. No wonder we've won fuck all with this fella. Dreading next week against another shit lower league side.
Mike Oates
70 Posted 21/10/2012 at 20:19:35
Moyes will not be able to play Gibson next week after 6 weeks out and not anywhere near match fit. Both Gibson and Fellaini will be on the bench, and the team will be as today with one of Naismith or Mirallas in the hole and the other out wide left. This will as we all know leave us with Neville and Osman in centre midfield against Allen and Gerrard who will run rings round us.

The Omens are bad - very bad

And don't anyone mention Hitzberger playing as he hasn't played a competitive match for 6 months or more, a 100mph derby will crucify him. We have this knack of shooting ourselves in the foot every year at "Derby" time - well done Pienaar !!

Stephen Cowdy
71 Posted 21/10/2012 at 20:34:42
I'm sure one of the yellow cards can be wiped off.

Please, though... no more Neville in the middle.
Kevin Tully
72 Posted 21/10/2012 at 20:23:43
The performance today reminded me of the Arsenal v Norwich game last night. Lower placed team desperate for a win and nothing Arsenal tried came off all night.

At least we came away with a point - which is more than you can say for Arsenal.

We are 1 point clear in fourth, and if we can give it to those fuckers next Sunday, all blues should be happy with our start to the season.

However, if we lose, it will take the gloss off our good start for me.

Paul Smith
73 Posted 21/10/2012 at 20:23:23
What I find amazing, is if TofeeWebbers can see what needs changing before Moyes does — and I refer to a post on the match thread, calling for peanuts to be dragged off before he misses the derby — and lo and behold the inevitable happens.

Then how can Moyes one minute get it so right, then a week later, behave like he's managing the leather bottle on a Sunday morning at the Dista playing fields?!?

Bobby Thomas
74 Posted 21/10/2012 at 20:34:17
Pinch a point mindset? What bollocks.

Initially playing Anichibe wide right, Mirallas wide left with and Jelavic up top in a flexible 4-3-3/4-5-1 isn't looking to pinch a point.

The system didnt work for various reasons. But that isn't a defensive formation.

He also kept Mirallas and Jelavic on for as long as he could until in an attempt to get 3 points until he had no option but to thicken up the mid with 10 mins to go when we took the point. Wisely.

So Moyes took a point with 10 mins to go.

Pinch a point mindset? Try bullshit tinged claptrap.

Kevin Tully
75 Posted 21/10/2012 at 20:43:35
Stephen #555, you cannot appeal yellow cards.
Roman Sidey
76 Posted 21/10/2012 at 20:38:02
Graham Shaw, luck had nothing to do Jagielka hitting the bar. He was practically unmarked and less than 6 yards from the middle of an unkept goal. He should have scored. No other gripes with the bloke though as he kept a point for us.

James Martin, Osman "playing like he normally" does is the problem. He's innocuous at best.

After watching this game though, I've come up with a sure-fire way of writing yourself off whilst watching Everton. Enjoy:

2 swigs for each player out of position on the team sheet.
2 swigs if the same midfield combination is picked regardless of form.
Half a beer when we concede the first goal.
1 swig when the ref doesn't award us a deserved penalty.
1 swig whenever Anichebe falls over - full beer if he's knocked over by someone bigger than him.
1 swig whenever Osman has no impact in defense.
1 swig when Neville physically struggles to pass the ball.
1 swig when Neville passes the ball to a player in a worse position.
1 swig when Howard hangs onto the ball then goes long.
1 swig when Moyes is shown frowning.
2 swigs if Moyes makes a sub before 60 mins.
2 swigs when we don't score in the second half.
1 swig when you hear Moyes giving micro-managing orders to players from the sideline lilke they're under 7s.
Half beer when we drop points to a team below us on the table.
Full beer when we drop points to the bottom team on the table.
Half a beer when we break the opposition's losing streak.

Edward Simpson
77 Posted 21/10/2012 at 21:04:16
Sorry, didn't realise they couldn't rescind 2 yellow cards, surely that's a shite rule then, considering that we are now without him for the derby?
Ray Jacques
78 Posted 21/10/2012 at 20:37:06
Peter (548) , look at QPR goal and then say again neville didnt cost us. He lost a tackle that he should have won and then didnt have the pace to chase back. Unfortunately thats just the way it is, his legs have gone and he's simply not mobile or strong enough to ply central mid. I think Osman then suffers playing alongside him and receives unwarranted criticism. With Osman and Neville in central mid we will struggle against most teams, however with the current injuries its the best we have. Heittinga isn't the answer as he is prone to silly errors and is weak in the tackle (awful at Wigan )

that said I would play Neville at right back next week if Hibbert is out as every time the ball goes near Coleman I cringe. The lad is not up to the standards of a premiership footballer and when he plays at full back it unsettles the whole of the defence.

Thought Baines was very poor today.

Dog will get a long walk next Sunday as fear the worse. Their midfield will move the ball too quickly for us to cope and we don't have anyone to break up the play as we keep giving the ball back to the opposition.

To end on a positive, I was pleased with a point today and this will ultimately be seen as a point gained.

John Malone
79 Posted 21/10/2012 at 20:53:06
Feel like the wheels are falling off now, the squads inadaquacies are showing 8 games in. If we want to keep Fellaini up top we've got to to get a true centre mid in the January sales, ( fingers crossed the Vadis deal is still on cards) otherwise we can wish any type of european football goodbye. Just shows how much we rely on Fellaini to hold the ball up, as much as I am a fan of Jelavic's finishing ability he fustrates me the with his inability to control the ball and keep a move flowing or stay on his feet in a dangerous area.

Don't want to get too pesimistic before a derby hopefully Fellaini will be fit and we will smash them by three.

Steve Barr
80 Posted 21/10/2012 at 21:04:49
Once again the team is set up all wrong for a game!

2nd bottom, although at home, QPR at least try and play 4-4-2. Of course, Everton, lying 4th, supposedly on form and brimming with confidence, set up as if they are second bottom, one up front and at least three players played out of position to cover for a missing Fellaini.

I really do want to be pleasantly surprised by Moyes, so called manager of the month, but once again his true colours win out.

I don't even want to think about the team set up and mindeset he will instill for the derby, but expect the worst.

Really disappointing and once again we suffer on in hope!

COYBs

Guy Hastings
81 Posted 21/10/2012 at 20:49:32
As I posted a couple of days back, I feared for this one, 'Hughes under pressure, terrible run etc etc'. If we'd played Soton or Reading on the first Sky Monday night game we'd have lost. It's just an Everton thing. In the end, happy to take a point. QPR are horrible, always have been.
Pienaar neds to get his locks/mojo back, although what Moyes was doing breaking up the Baines-Peanuts combo is beyond me. As for not starting with Naismith, who I thought was bought because Jelavic rated him as the best link-man he'd played with, is also a tad puzzling. And no reflection on Coleman, who is doing as good a job as you might expect for someone thrown in as an emergency RB but Hibbo's absence puts me in mind of one of Joni Mitchell's better-known chorus lines.
Edward Simpson
82 Posted 21/10/2012 at 21:16:12
I'm actually quite happy that we drew, I missed the first half so I didn't see whether they played well or not.
From the 40 minutes I saw of the second half it looked like we weren't chasing down QPR's players quick enough, but we did have good chances to go ahead even with ten men.

Point gained, but annoyed at Pienaar dismissal, whether Mirallas will be there next week or giving Oviedo a chance to shine will be an interesting question.
I just hope there will be some good news in mid week. 'Fellaini and Hibbert will feature in the derby'.

Jim Knightley
83 Posted 21/10/2012 at 21:12:42
We have too small a squad...this is the problem. And we simply can't cope with the loss of two central midfielders. Personally, I would have preferred to see Naismith play AMC, with Pienaar left and Mirallas right, and Neville and Osman, by necessity, in the central midfield. Barkley isn't ready....he looks barely ready for league one, let alone the premiership. For all Osman's critics, he would dominate lower league midfields.
Also, the Hammer isn't ready for Prem football...he needs more training and more reserve matches.

And Steve, don't be so tactically naive. How did we play defensively? were Spain defensive, because they didn't play a 442? which is a massively outdated formation anyhow. No body in their right mind would play 442, with Mirallas and Pienarr, two wingers in the formation, along with two extremely attacking full backs, and Osman in central midfield. We suffered from the midfield battle as it was. Thankgod you are not managing Everton.

All in all, the result was not that disappointing. QPR are in a false position, and have good players, and we are suffering from the loss of two important ones. But the Pienaar suspension is dreadful. We are an utterly different team with him, and a one match suspension couldn't really be more badly timed. Hopefully Fellaini and Gibson will be back, because a win against Liverpool would really help dictate where we go this season.

As soon as the window opens, we must bring in a central midfielder.

Also, I thought Jags was immense today

Brian Denton
84 Posted 21/10/2012 at 21:21:48
Guy, you're not suggesting a Big Yellow Taxi for Hibbo, surely?
Edward Simpson
85 Posted 21/10/2012 at 21:24:32
Hitzlsperger will feature in the next U-21's match, which I think is on Monday, not entirely sure.
Get him up match fitness, we need as many players as possible for the next game especially in CM.
Guy Hastings
86 Posted 21/10/2012 at 21:20:24
Roman - if Jags hadn't been shoved in the back he might well have scored. Just saying like...
Roman Sidey
87 Posted 21/10/2012 at 21:28:59
Perhaps, Guy, perhaps.
Paul Woolf
88 Posted 21/10/2012 at 21:23:15
Stop defending Osman and Neville. Osman is like a little boy lost — just not strong enough or good enough... my mum in her 80s has more power in her shots. As for Neville, the clown does not know how to pass or move forward.

My other issue is our style of backing off; we back off and back off all the time — why? Why not press the opposition? The mindset is wrong, when we play well we still invite trouble with our backing off.

I am afraid our good start is ebbing away; we have to look interested from the off and we have to pass and move... it's not rocket science. Some of our passing in the last 2 games has been shocking.

And will someone please tell Jelavic and Vic to stand up and stop going to ground every time someone goes near them!
Brian Harrison
89 Posted 21/10/2012 at 21:17:37
Cant believe all the negativity over todays game, we were not at our best and some of our more important players had a real off day. But no team plays well in every game and sometimes if your not playing well then make sure you get something from the game thats what good teams do. Also we were missing 2 very influential players and with a small squad that is always going to be a problem.

So played 8 and five of them have been away, beat the other lot next week and we will consolidate our 4th place.

Steve Barr
90 Posted 21/10/2012 at 21:26:10
Jim,

I have an excuse for being tactically naive. I'm not a professional coach with FA coaching badges and years of experience under my belt.

Just commenting as a layman on the what most seem to be able to see.

Blame the size of the squad all you want, we should be able to beat the likes of Wigan, West Brom and QPR with a well qualified coach and the squad we have. My naive suggestion would be to play players in position and be positive!

But no..let's complicate things with clever formations and tactics.


Barry Stevens
91 Posted 21/10/2012 at 21:06:30
Why Mr Moyes changed the Baines/Pienaar combo only he knows. Ok he reverted back to it after a half-hour but QPR had their tails up by then.

Gonna be watching next week's game with my brother who's a red and I'm now crapping it. Really hoping Gibson is fit enough to start.

Sam Hoare
92 Posted 21/10/2012 at 21:34:45
To be honest, if someone would have said you'd be 4th after 8 games despite having to play Osman and Neville in central midfield in the majority of games, then I would have had them sectioned!

Moyes went for some strange decisions today and they didn't quite work, however for me his biggest mistake was not securing another decent central midfielder in the transfer window. I have some faith in Osman, but him and Neville are nowhere near a top 4 central midfield and after the derby, I fear we will no longer be in the top 4.

Fellaini and Gibson will not be fully match fit if at all and missing pienaar as well is going to make this weekend a grim undertaking I fear against a quick and improving RS.

David Price
93 Posted 21/10/2012 at 21:36:12
I don't think there's too much to argue with amongst ourselves today. Mostly agreed on Neville, poor and Osman is a better player with Gibson. But, as someone else stated, who else have we got?

Moyes's tactics were wrong today. With Fellaini missing, don't weaken other areas and disrupt the partnerships working left and right... Massive mistake. Victor up top and let Jelavic enjoy some space and then change it needed.

I don't agree on Baines and Coleman. It was the back four and Howard that kept us in it with Jags excellent. The rest were poor.

Ref awful when it mattered, got the basics ok, but Jelavic a pen, nailed on; Pienaar, a booking? Get real, lads, he's allowed to chase back for fuck's sake. Lastly Coleman gets a foot to the ball and then the guy trips over him. Agree with Moyes, the ref knew he had fucked up with Jelavic and evened it up.

Listen, we would have lost the last two games this time last year but we have battled back despite terrible decisions from the officials. Next week, we will be missing some flair in Fellaini and Pienaar so we need the Dogs of War to take it to them lot. It ain't over... we just need Moyes to keep it simple, get stuck into them and all of us to get behind them.

COYB.

James Martin
94 Posted 21/10/2012 at 21:41:43
I don't see this criticism about formations and tactics. Mirallas started on the left, yes, but, in the course of the match, he moved to behind the striker and wide right and up top. He was pretty crap wherever he went and had a bad day.

Equally for Pienaar, he moved all across the front three and couldn't get any joy anywhere, especially with Baines, who ended up getting him sent off with some shocking passing. Anichebe is rubbish but I don't see what other option Moyes has; he could have played Naismith but obviously doesn't deem him good enough or fit enough to start the game (like some on here have been saying).

Anichebe wasn't going to go up top or behind Jelavic so where else could he go? It wasn't ideal him starting out wide but again he moved all over the show, including up top with Jelavic and behind him.

Too many players had an off day today, these players have been playing in the same fluid attacking system all season. Baines, Pienaar and Mirallas don't suddenly start playing terribly because Anichebe's lined up on the other side of the pitch.

We started badly with a flukey goal against us then we got bogged down on a wet pitch against a team scrapping for their lives with some talented players in their ranks (Granero was in the Champions League semi a season ago); we had injuries to key players and had a man harshly sent off. Can people not see why it might have been difficult for us to win?

The reality is we limited them to few chances in the second half and had the best positions ourselves but Mirallas and Pienaar were wasteful in their final ball. If one of Jags's chances go in we win and no one questions Moyes's team.

The idea that anyone on here has a better idea about how to pick the Everton team than David Moyes is laughable; no-one has a clue about the physical and mental condition of the players, their tactical awareness in certain positions or the strengths of QPR that need countering. Instead, people think that if we put the same teamsheet out every week then they're always going to play the same and any opposition – no matter their team shape or formation – will never be able to stop us, not even at home.

Even the top teams don't play like that so I don't know why we'd have that arrogance. Ferguson changes his team every week accordingly with who he is facing.

Moyes didn't do that against Wigan and Martinez had us sussed with his formation because we'd played the same way all season; we had to adapt second half and had a much better showing. But yeah I'm sure in his entire managerial career Moyes has never thought of the genius ToffeeWeb tactic of sticking all his attacking players (and Ross Barkley of course) in a 4-4-2 and just telling them to 'go for it' for 38 games a season regardless of the opposition.

Matt Butlin
95 Posted 21/10/2012 at 21:52:14
You never know how a game will go, we have gone into previous games against the shite in great form and had come away 3rd best.

I agree with Sam. There were some strange decisions today and for want of a better phrase, we were crap... But let's just see how the derby goes. I'm not expecting anything... But hoping. We're due some luck against those arseholes.

Roberto Birquet
96 Posted 21/10/2012 at 22:01:57
J Martin
I don't see this criticism about formations and tactics. Mirallas started on the left yes but in the course of the match he moved to behind the striker and wide right and uptop.
-----------------
So Moyes saw that he got it wrong after 30 minutes. But if we're without Pienaar next week, it's the same problem.

The loss of Gibson and Fellaini has severely weakened us on this showing. We had to move Neville into midfield leaving Coleman in his worst position - defence.

Heavin Forbid we're without them and Pienaar next week. I only hope we're allowed to overturn Pineaar's second yellow, if the rules even permit that.

Liam Morton
97 Posted 21/10/2012 at 22:00:54
Haha James Martin you speak the gospel mate, agree with every word!
Craig Fletcher
98 Posted 21/10/2012 at 22:10:12
Disappointing yes, but in hindsight this was probably a point gained rather than two lost. With Fellaini and Gibson out and us playing a desperate QPR; there was always the feeling that this game was going to be more like the Everton at the start of last season.

Regarding team selection, quite simply there wasn't any realistic alternative to Neville and Osman in midfield. We actually started quite well in the second half, but after the ridiculous piece of officiating that was Pienaar's second yellow card it was always going to be backs-to-the-wall.

The biggest criticism of the game was how we set ourselves up, why Pienaar was not on the left to continue his partnership with Baines only Moyes will know. Hopefully Gibbo and Fellaini will be fit for the derby; if so; I'd move Neville back to RB to replace Coleman who frankly had a shocker; and Fellaini obviously for Anichebe. Naismith I thought did quite well when he came on; he injected a bit of energy which sadly seemed to be lacking from a few others on the pitch. Jags clearly for me was MOTM.

Dick Fearon
99 Posted 21/10/2012 at 22:30:36
The number one lesson to be learned from QPRs goal is not to have all our players in our own area when facing a corner.


Bobby Mallon
100 Posted 21/10/2012 at 22:50:58
I was at the game today: Moyes once again baffles me. Pienaar should have started in his best position with Mirallas in the middle.

And Phil Neville should have a warning on his back saying "I am a danger to Everton FC and should never be allowed near a game again."
Patrick Murphy
101 Posted 21/10/2012 at 23:17:02
MOTD said we are a good team with some lovely passing movement , unfortunately they were unable to back this up with highlights from today's game and you could see that that loveable red nose presenter was creaming himself in anticipation of next weeks match.

Having thought about next weeks game and if Felli is unfit , perhaps we should go 5 at the back
Neville Heitinga Jags Distin and Baines . 3 in midfield Osman , Coleman and Mirralas with Naysmith and jelavic up front. Please no Neville in CM and no Anichebe anywhere other than the bench.

I'm looking for a soundproof cellar for the whole of Sunday with no contact with the outside world!

Ciarán McGlone
102 Posted 21/10/2012 at 23:35:12
Does anyone else find Naismith utterly unconvincing?
Drew O'Neall
103 Posted 21/10/2012 at 23:42:05
Thought QPR played a lot better than what I've seen of them so far this year, confident and attacking from the off so some of the stick on here is a bit harsh based on the expectation shortfall what with them being bottom and all. Suspect they'll pick a few points up in the coming weeks, just a pity we didn't play them sooner.

One thing I did notice was Naismith won all his headers against their defender, about four in total. For a bloke who's no more than about 5'6" that's no mean feet.

Coleman's got a rick in him, think he's second choice when Hibbo's back except when we are battering teams.

Did anyone clock the young ginger Evertoniette banging one in at half time after falling on her arse to the amusement of the crowd? She gave then the shush finger celebration after it nestled, lovely stuff.

Andy Crooks
104 Posted 21/10/2012 at 23:56:45
I agree, Patrick, even the highlights,which I thought flattered us, showed little of what we are capable. Our best eleven can beat anyone; next week we will not have our best eleven so we will require innovation, imagination and inspiration from the coach. If he believes in the players and sets out to win it can and will be done.
Mike Powell
105 Posted 21/10/2012 at 23:38:25
Neville should never play in CM again; how come every one of us can see this and Moyes cannot? Neville was piss poor. I don't understand these people who stick up for Neville; he is finished.

He was not the only one who was poor — Coleman and Ossie were just as bad. And Coleman right back, FFS, he is shite — can you not see that, Moyes?!?!

Yes, the ref was a twat but what is new about that? I will tell you now that the Shite will walk all over us. The carrot-muncher will have a field day if Neville is playing...

Let's hope Fellaini and Gibson are back but if not we will have to face them twats in work again taking the piss. Fuck it, I am going on the sick for for a few weeks...
Richard Harris
106 Posted 22/10/2012 at 00:57:48
"I'm looking for a soundproof cellar for the whole of Sunday with no contact with the outside world!"
There's one in Austria that has been vacant now for a few years !!
Richard Harris
107 Posted 22/10/2012 at 01:00:48
"Did anyone clock the young ginger Evertoniette banging one in at half time after falling on her arse to the amusement of the crowd? She gave then the shush finger celebration after it nestled, lovely stuff".
Was that the penalty that went in off the underside of the bar? That was a finely taken penalty with a certain cheeky arrogance — sign her up!!
Mark Stewart
108 Posted 22/10/2012 at 02:59:53
We're due some luck against the Shite, cross everything and hope that we get it on Sunday. The prospect of smug Benda lauding it up is too disturbing to think about...
Robin Cannon
109 Posted 22/10/2012 at 03:37:01
We're an infuriating team for the inconsistency of our performances.

I don't particularly think we went out there with a negative attitude. We weren't lacking for attacking players on the pitch - either from the start or with the substitutions we made - but our ability to switch from playing great football to being unable to find a teammate from ten yards is unmatched.

On the Pienaar thing - I still think the referee was right. He'd given Pienaar a last warning about a minute earlier, he got beaten, and he fouled his man. Taken in isolation it wasn't a yellow, but as part of a persistent pattern and immediately after a "final warning", the moment that was a foul I thought "he's off".

Dean Sturridge on the commentary on Fox Soccer Channel here in the US made a couple of interesting points.

On the Pienaar thing - he pointed out that Moyes' reaction after the sending off suggested that he hadn't been aware that he'd been previously booked (because that first booking came after advantage had been played, and the ref took care of it after play broke down). Not great awareness, because I think it would have warranted taking him off for his own benefit at that point.

He also said, and I think he's exactly right, that there was no real reason why losing one player - Fellaini - should warrant switching three players to be out of their most comfortable position (Mirallas playing on the left instead of the right, Pienaar in the centre instead of the left, and Anichebe on the right instead of the centre). I didn't understand that either, and I thought it was definitely a tactical error.

Doesn't necessarily justify a generally bad performance by many players in general. Like most bad performances, a combination of poor play by individual players, and poor tactical set up.

Given our inconsistency, any team could turn up next weekend. Liverpool are shit generally. We can be really good, or we can be really bad - ultimately I think the result of the game is far more dependent on how we turn up, not what the RS do.

Peter Barry
110 Posted 22/10/2012 at 04:06:04
As usual when we get a bad result Moyes and his TW sycophants blame the Ref and anyone and everyone except him and his tactical ineptitude.

He continues to play powder-puff Osman and useless Neville together in midfield when it is patently obvious to all that it does not work. He then tinkered with the strongest pairing we have by moving Pienaar infield and playing Mirallas wide left.

Surely the most sensible option was to continue what was becoming a good combination of him and Coleman on the right, complementing the efficient Baines and Pienaar pairing on the left. This spreads the play and allows far more opportunities for crosses on which Jelavic thrives. I never saw a cross from the right the whole game and Jelly was starved of service. Vic is just not good enough and should never get another game and Neville should only ever play as RB and then only if Coleman and Hibbert are not available.

Injuries and tactical ignorance caused this result and I am really now worried that Moyes's ineptitude will allow a useless RS team to shine in the derby — as is usual under this big game bottler. I hope I am wrong but history tells us I am most probably not.
Ernie Baywood
111 Posted 22/10/2012 at 06:22:05
Without Pienaar and Fellaini (let's rule out Gibson too) I'm very worried about the derby.

On the QPR game. Too many off days but a bit of credit to QPR. They took the initiative and on a wet pitch they played some decent pacy stuff. Can't stand off teams on a wet pitch - we did and conceded.

Coleman did alright for me but had nothing ahead of him and that was deffo a pen against.

Baines had the worst game I've seen. Yes he lacked support and QPR pushed on him but when has that ever stopped him before? Bad day for him.

Neville was shit.

Jelly gets no service so no point talking about his performance. Second look at his penalty claim he had a case.

Pienaar had an off day but I'm not having the second yellow. Accumulation of fouls is alright if you put your foot in and mistime it but if you accidentally graze a bloke because he has a swing at the ball while you're running with him it's not a yellow. Bollocks decision.

So who plays left mid next week because that didn't work?

Ian Bennett
112 Posted 22/10/2012 at 06:57:33
Peter who else is he going to play in the middle?
Jim Harrison
113 Posted 22/10/2012 at 06:24:34
Peter 614, It was a bad performance, but ineptitude? Tactical ignorance? The first goal was a mixture of poor play by Neville, a poor luck for Baines and no little skill and perseverance by a player we would have loved to have signed.
Still, after playing shockingly we remained in 4th place.
Jim Harrison
114 Posted 22/10/2012 at 07:33:37
Peter 614, It was a bad performance, but ineptitude? Tactical ignorance? The first goal was a mixture of poor play by Neville, a poor luck for Baines and no little skill and perseverance by a player we would have loved to have signed.

Still, after playing shockingly, we remained in 4th place.
Dick Fearon
115 Posted 22/10/2012 at 07:49:36
Jim @ 619, I would add that the difference between Mark Hughes and Moyes was clearly shown by QPR having Hoilett in an attacking position even though the rest of his team were defending an Everton Corner.
Sam Hoare
116 Posted 22/10/2012 at 08:03:17
Peter (#614), I'm more than happy to criticise Moyes for his tinkering too much with the formation yesterday so perhaps you could dispense with the generalisation that Moyes's supporters always excuse him?

He should not have disrupted Pienaar and Baines and Mirallas and Coleman and I don't think Big Vic has ever really shone on the wing. In the middle, however, I'm not sure what options he has. We really shot ourselves in the foot by missing out on that lad Odjidja-Ofoe as it means that, particularly with Gibson and Fellaini out, we are very light in the middle.

Ernie Baywood
117 Posted 22/10/2012 at 09:03:22
And Barkley on loan.

Maybe it was a day to go with an ultra defensive Heitinga and Neville combo with Osman ahead of them.

He would have got criticism for picking that side but it would have left the wings as they were.

All in hindsight of course, and with no guarantee it would have been any better.

Derek Thomas
118 Posted 22/10/2012 at 08:16:30
1) We peaked on the 1st day of the season.

2) Our squad depth lacks quantity and quality.

3) Each 'star' player we lose drops us from 3rd/4th by 1 or 2 places.

4) We are playing 9th.

5) The fates are conspiring (injuries, refs and players' own stupidity) and will no doubt continue to allow us to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory in the derby.

6) The only way Neville will replace Coleman is if Gibson comes back, then Coleman will be pushed forward.

7) Moyes still gets these "I'm a real slim shady of a manager" with these cunning plans aka square pegs in round holes.

8) All the assistant, their headphones, ear pieces, clipboards, etc should have been able to spot Pienaar's first booking.

9) Osman, who didn't have a worse game than many others, had run out of legs in the last 15-20 mins.

10) Moyes, who has been accused of making decisions based on the lottery system — "If I keep buying a ticket, I must win one week" — needs to get Mystic Meg involved tout suite.

Tony J Williams
119 Posted 22/10/2012 at 09:11:40
Amen Dick, sick and tired of having 11 in the box for a corner. Most teams do it, but QPR benefited from not doing it....then again, Pip shouldn't have lost that challenge then do his best Peter Reid against Maradona impression.

It's funny that some posters who use the old square pegs in round holes soundbite are somehow suggesting that Miralles isn't a left sided player and that Pienaar was not the captain of South Africa playing in the middle.

Bad day at the office for everyone but Jags and Howard, that includes Moyes and the ref.

Eugene Ruane
120 Posted 22/10/2012 at 09:51:52
Tony, the Peter Reid V Maradona impression - this is EXACTLY what I thought when I saw the chase back. I was actually laughing until their feller got within shooting range.
Paul Andrews
121 Posted 22/10/2012 at 10:21:20
Tony,

after the lad rolled Neville he should have fouled him,may have got away with a booking as it was early and in their half.

Centre mid was non existent for us yesterday, we desperately need Gibson or Fellaini back asap.

For me Jagielka and Howard were the only 2 who played up to standard yesterday.

Drew O'Neall
122 Posted 22/10/2012 at 10:46:37
Will people get it through their heads that Barkley isn't good enough (the Sheffield Weds boss has even said he's prone to mistakes) and we don't have a better option in midfield than Neville.

I'd like to see some suggestions of who should be picked instead of him from all the whingers.. Yeah he's not great but he's all we've got.

James Martin
123 Posted 22/10/2012 at 10:51:14
Easy to laugh at Neville like him chasing Hoillet was some sort of premier league embarassment. Hoillet's quick. Do you know who isn't quick....Fabregas, which makes the site of Fellaini running after him as we were beaten 6-1 at home all the more comical. So give it a rest with the 'if only Fellaini was back'. They don't even play the same position anymore, even if he had been fit Neville would have still played. The only player who is going to dislodge him from the midfield will be Gibson who is the real key man alongside Pienaar and Osman in how we play.
GJ Butler
124 Posted 22/10/2012 at 11:17:59
Paul @ 650. I'd say it crossed Nevilles mind to pull down Hoilett and take the yellow, but I'd say it also crossed his mind it was in the third minute of the game so probably not wise to get booked so early - and perhaps someone will step out from the back and make a tackle rather than back off and allow him to run forty yards before shooting.
Paul David
125 Posted 22/10/2012 at 11:21:48
Drew

Why is it Barkley's not ready to play for us because he makes mistakes while Neville fucks up week in week out but thats ok because he's the best in the league at pointing his finger.

I'm not suggesting Barkley should be playing for us all the time but using his inexperience as a reason for him not to play some part is a non-starter when Neville shows experience doesn't stop you from being shite.

You ask who should have played instead of Neville, well considering I think Neville is the worst midfielder in the history of the game I would pick anyone ahead of him, give Mucha a go there he can't be any worse.

Tony J Williams
126 Posted 22/10/2012 at 12:11:53
Exactly GJ, like watching the class of the 90's version of Everton defending for that first goal........back off.....back off.....allow to shoot........fuckkkkkkk!
Paul David
127 Posted 22/10/2012 at 12:20:02
GJ & Tony

Did you want Baines or Coleman to commit to a tackle when it was 2 v 2,? If they didn't win the tackle it would have meant qpr would have had a free run on goal and all the time in the world.

Baines did the right thing by not jumping in forcing the qpr player to either try and beat him or take a shot from distance.

Terry Smith
128 Posted 22/10/2012 at 12:27:04
I would not play Coleman in a right back position for the derby. Still think he needs to be played there now and again. Depending on who is fit for the Liverpool match, I would play him right wing.

Anichebe is a impact player from the bench at best. Fingers crossed Gibson or Fellaini will be fit as can't play Neville & Osman in the middle.
Tony J Williams
129 Posted 22/10/2012 at 12:33:10
I would have expected one of them to Paul, how far do you back off before the fella has a shot from less than 20 yards?
David Nicholls
130 Posted 22/10/2012 at 12:23:00
After a quick skim through the posts, I think people are being a little over critical of our midfield. I thought Osman and Neville gave as good as they got for much of the game. QPR may be bottom but I guarantee they will not be there for long. Esteban Granero is a class act who has represented Spain at Every level other than the seniors and if Samba Diakite can cut out the recklessness then QPR have one hell of a talent on their hands. Coleman needs to cut out the rash tackles in and around our box and this needs sorting out fast.
Phil Smith
131 Posted 22/10/2012 at 12:27:07
Yeah, I agree with most on here that Coleman looked a little shakey at times out there, but overall I think we're a better team with him in. Gives us far more than Hibbo going forward and he's slowly proving to me, at least, that he can defend.

Also frustrated with Neville in the middle - that goal was his fault as he's always slow to react to situations like that. He does, however, anchor the midfield and I'm not totally against him, like some on here. He just can't pass for shit and does the odd daft thing. Little bit too much of that from some of the boys. Heard Moyes shouting a few times after their goal to "relax" and I'm sure we would have gone on to win that if Pienaar hadn't have gone.

Think that's what some of our supports should do. It's a long season and we're playing better than I can remember. Got a good feeling this year about the derby, if only we get a good ref. for once. Twice as many points this year than at the same point last season. Chin up, lads!
Paul David
132 Posted 22/10/2012 at 12:35:47
Tony

Hoilet was running from right to left across the pitch, the angle he was running at meant he would have been a good few yards wide of the goal if he had of waited till he got in the area to have his shot and the further wide he went the better the strike would have had to have been to beat Howard.

So I would have been quite happy for Baines to continue to back off as long as Hoilet continued heading towards the corner. If Hoilet had decided to run directly at goal then I think you would have seen Baines left with no choice but to make a tackle.

Ronald Low
133 Posted 22/10/2012 at 12:58:48
This the the 3rd time we let in early goals and have been chasing the game in the first 10 mins. Southampton 6 mins, Wigan 10 mins and lately QPR 2 mins. This trend need to be stopped. Hate to see this happen when we play the red shit next week...

COYB

James Peter
134 Posted 22/10/2012 at 13:27:28
I apologise if this point has already been made (I got half way down the comments). I was more annoyed with Moyes today than anybody else. As people have rightly said in my opinion I did not agree with his formation and playing people out of position.

Just watching the game on TV, I could sense that Pienaar was on very thin ice. He was really lucky NOT to walk for clattering that lad seconds before the sending of. Why did Moyes not take him off immediately? Why risk Pienaar getting sent off therefore throwing the game away and potentially having a huge player missing from the derby?

We had enough cover in Naysmith and Heitinga to at least see the game through. Pienaar wasn't having the best game by his standards anyway. We can do nothing about poor refereeing but Moyes seems to back to his dithering / tinkering ways.
James Morgan
135 Posted 21/10/2012 at 20:19:47
Shows how thin our squad is especially in the middle. Got to beat these teams to get top 4, although doesn't help when the ref shafts you against Newcastle, Wigan and QPR, the Pienaar sending off was a joke!

Still, we are in fourth and have the most away shots in Europe with 99 efforts so can't overly complain, just need to convert more!
Ed Fitzgerald
136 Posted 22/10/2012 at 13:36:36
Some mediocre performances from most and some bloody awful ones from Neville (yet again) and Coleman who were both hopeless throughout. Pienaar was really unlucky don't we want players to track back? At least he cares and has skill and passion. At least we dug in and we were equally likely winners with 10 as we were with 11

Lets not start worrying about the other lot, some people's fear of them is indicative of Moyes paranoia. We are not playing Barca or even Man CIty we are playing a team that are 12th and are awful. We have to believe too.

Paul Woolf
137 Posted 22/10/2012 at 13:08:21
Unreal...

Some still defend Neville and Osman, yet, week-in & week-out, we can see that Neville is our liability; do you think other managers don't see it? And to think he could be our manager one day!

As I posted earlier, why the backing off all the time? It cost us on Sunday and then the pattern was formed. Also, why are we always giving teams so much space? We stand off them by 3 or 4 yards when we can all see where the ball is going; get closer, hassle them, put them under pressure, force the player to play instead of holding off and allowing them to run at us!!!

As supporters, we do not expect world class performances each week; what we do expect is for players to be able to get close, close down and pass the ball to each other. When this does not happen, are we expecting too much? I don't think so...
Peter Barry
138 Posted 22/10/2012 at 13:54:43
If those who are criticising my comments regarding Moyes 'tactical ineptitude' by splitting a winning pair Baines and Pienaar and breaking up what was looking like a useful combination on the right with Mirallas and Coleman and playing a totally useless Big Vic, then perhaps they could tell us what it was if not ineptitude?

He needed only to replace Fellaini but instead he tinkered with a winning formation and cocked it up — if that's not ineptitude then I don't know what it is.
Mike Hayes
139 Posted 22/10/2012 at 14:04:06
Lose next weekend and Moyes will get ripped to shreds no matter what team turns up. To me Neville is getting worse instead of better but Moyes will pick him like he picked Cahill and Saha. We need everyman to stand up to the redshite and put them to the sword once and for all.
No mercy for them or Brenda Rodgers who seems to have fallen into the redshite mould whinging about anything and everything.
Roberto Birquet
140 Posted 22/10/2012 at 14:30:15
R Cannon
On the Pienaar thing - I still think the referee was right.
--------------------------
What? Have you seen the replays?

Pienaar neither touched him nor even made a challenge. Their player shaped to hit the ball but back-heeled Pienaar's knee, lost his balance and went down. Good grief, get a strong pair of specs.
GJ Butler
141 Posted 22/10/2012 at 14:43:49
Ah, all is well in the world again now that Peter Barry is back with his insistence that Moyes is 'tactically inept'. The latest proof? He made three changes to a winning side when all he had to do was replace Fellaini.

But I've a better memory than ol' Pete. I seem to remember keeping with the winning team and then losing to West Brom was also tactically inept in his eyes. Pete's comments from that thread (if anyone cares to search): Daft Davey was just exposing his TACTICAL INEPTNESS once again. Moving Neville into midfield was the perfect example of Davey's TIMID SAFETY-FIRST approach to far too many games. He had the options: Heitinga into midfield or Felliani dropping back and Mirallas going up front with Jelly... but not for our Davey.

So keeping a winning team was inept, and changing it was inept. He's not going to win Pete over anytime soon...

Steavey Buckley
142 Posted 22/10/2012 at 16:02:20
It should have been obvious to most who watched yesterdays game on a greasy playing surface, Steven Pienaar should have been replaced soon after the ref warned him after another foul tackle after just been booked for the first time.
Sam Hoare
143 Posted 22/10/2012 at 16:14:29
Worth pointing out that we also made ground on some of the chasing pack as Tottenham lost at home to Chelsea, West Brom lost at home to Man City and Arsenal were beaten by the mighty Norwich. No such thing as an easy game in the Premier League. QPR have some very handy players (many of whom we have chased at one time or another) and a point at Loftus Road may not look so bad at the end of the season.
Peter Barry
144 Posted 22/10/2012 at 17:29:40
GJ Butler (#694), obviously believes that anything his Moyesiah does is right. So that's OK then.
Bill Griffiths
145 Posted 22/10/2012 at 17:33:59
I thought Coleman didn't do too bad (no penalty as he had played the ball). I think that Neville should go to right back against the Shite and Coleman in midfield on the right with Heitinga in central midfield. Not ideal but we don't really have any options. Maybe we will come good this time when things are looking black as the last few derbies we were full of hope and things went pear-shaped.
Andy Meighan
146 Posted 22/10/2012 at 18:14:51
Peter (#614) — I absolutely love you, pal. You got it spot on when you said "Why break up the Baines-Pienaar & Coleman-Mirallas axis?"

But of course the dour sweaty can't see that. He knows better than us. He's obviously not aware of the phrase "if it's not broke, don't fix it." But he did and he does...

Please don't let us let us down next week. I couldn't bear the smug patronising remarks off the cunts again.
Chris Hughes
147 Posted 22/10/2012 at 18:45:48
I just can't understand why Moyes doesn't go against the red card given to Steven!! It was no way even a yellow. Even the FA should see that. Other clubs do it so why not us!! We can't lose Steven for the derby!! COYB
Neil Higginbotham
148 Posted 22/10/2012 at 19:24:02
I'm an American and an Evertonian, therefore a Tim Howard fan, BUT, I'm not sure why the deflection even beat him. Are his reactions too fast?!! It seems to happen to him somewhat regularly...
Andy Walker
149 Posted 22/10/2012 at 19:45:36
Peter Barry, as you have repeatedly criticised David Moyes and pointed out his apparently obvious tactical naivety, perhaps you could share your secret and enlighten us all by telling us who's the manager you would have in charge of our club? You know, the one who'd have us in the top 3 rather than labouring in 4th. No doubt with your insight we could have been top, please let us in on the secret.

I've no problem with critical analysis, but to make a general judgement that one of the top PL managers is apparently so obviously tactically naive, means you must have some serious knowledge of the game and be more tactically aware than our manager. I've watched the game for 40 years and have strong opinions, but recognise that as I haven't got any coaching qualifications or managerial experience, DM probably knows more about tactics than me. What makes you so well qualified?
Paul Hughes
150 Posted 22/10/2012 at 20:25:24
I don't have a problem with Mirallas and Pienaar swapping. They set up with JS Park doubling up on the right to nullify our main (only?) attacking threat, so worth a try doing something unexpected. Their flaky goal after 2 minutes screwed up out plans a bit.

Other thoughts...

Mirallas needs to look up a bit more, and come up with a bit of variation, I lost count of the number of times he cut inside and then had his shot blocked.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, Coleman cannot be trusted at right back. The return of Hibbo cannot come soon enough.

As soon as Pienaar lost the ball just prior to the sending off I was screaming at him to back off, you could see what was going to happen. Yes he was unlucky that the QPR player clipped him and fell over, but it looked like a tackle from behind and there was only going to be one result after the lecture he had 30 seconds earlier.

Graham Mockford
151 Posted 22/10/2012 at 20:32:10
Another Peter Barry classic before the Leeds game.

"I would like to see Heitnga partner Distin at the back to see if that is a better fit than Heitinga /Jags I also think Oviedo should be given a run out at LB and we should retain Coleman at RB too. Upfront Mirralas and Vic should be played and Osman or Pienaar given a rest in favour of Naismith."

The team as I remember was

Howard
Coleman Heitina Distin Oveido
Mirallas Neville Fellaini Pienaar
Naismith
Anichebe

The next day without a hint of irony he posts
"Moyes Team selection , Moyes game TACTICS, Moyes and his management teams responsibility to check and asses the opposition.
Moyes FAULT - End Of!!!!!!"


Brian Waring
152 Posted 22/10/2012 at 20:47:19
Sad thing is, no Pienaar, no Fellaini, ready made excuses if the shite happen to turn us over.
Graham Mockford
153 Posted 22/10/2012 at 20:46:50
My memory not as good as it was, instead of Neville and Pienaar it was Junior and Gueye but same sentiment!
David Barks
154 Posted 22/10/2012 at 21:19:06
Brian,

Why is that the sad thing? Shouldn't the sad thing be that we're now going to be without Pienaar and Fellaini, making much more difficult to win the game? But you just show that its not really the results that you seem to care about, it's just whether or not you get to have a go at Moyes. I'm upset that probably our 2 best midfielders are now out of the Derby, not that some might have the audacity to point that fact out in case we don't win. Get over your obsession.

Jamie Barlow
155 Posted 22/10/2012 at 21:53:39
Injuries.

It's not a bad excuse to use is it Brian?

I think any team with their first choice right back, left winger and two central midfielders out would struggle. Especially when you've got a squad as small as ours.

Peter Mills
156 Posted 22/10/2012 at 22:21:32
Neil#750

You may have noticed that people who post on this site are not afraid to offer constructive criticism of players' performances(!), yet nobody has pointed the finger at Tim Howard for QPR's goal. This is because Tim correctly started to move to his right to save the initial shot, had he not reacted so quickly the shot would have beaten him. Once it deflected off Baines the goalkeeper had no chance whatsoever.

Tim Howard is a good goalie, a very good shot-stopper, but his inability to command his goalkeeping area prevents him from being a very good all round keeper.
Brent Stephens
157 Posted 22/10/2012 at 22:42:19
Peter Barry, interesting counter above to your views. Are you going to respond?
Jamie Crowley
158 Posted 22/10/2012 at 01:39:45
Ciaran — I agree wholeheartedly with your Naismith observation. He runs a lot... But unfortunately I've seen nothing to suggest he can affect a game with the level of his skill and quality. He's a squad player at best, and his endearing quality seems to be the level of his effort.

I'm not impressed in the least with Mr Naismith, but hope that effort pays off for him soon...
Peter Barry
159 Posted 23/10/2012 at 05:50:35
Graham Mockford (#758),

Perhaps next time you should post what I actually said and not your imaginary version of it. You create a STRAWMAN then attack it – how typical of you.

By the way, we lost to Leeds – or did that fact just slip your mind – so where was your "Tactical Genius" Moyes then, hey?
Roman Sidey
160 Posted 23/10/2012 at 07:02:42
I've stood off criticising Moyes too much this season because we've been scoring some goals (finally, after 10 boring years), but for those of you (you know who you are) that think he's once again a top EPL manager because he has us in 4th, look at our run. Yes, we beat Man Utd on the opening weekend... and then? Draw with Newcastle who really aren't as good as last season's table suggests, a loss to fucking West Brom, and the rest of the teams would/should be relegated at the end of the season.

For the derby, Neville has to play right back. He'll do well there against the Shite. Thinking that Heitinga is probably the only one to slot into CDM if that happens and we keep the same formation. Someone mentioned earlier 5-3-2 for this game. Maybe a good time to try. As long as Fizzer isn't in the middle and Big Vic is on the bench (for fuck's sake, Davey, he's proven he's a useless starter and a handy sub), I won't complain about the team.

GJ Butler
161 Posted 23/10/2012 at 08:16:20
Fantastic response Pete - 'my hipocrisy has been exposed, so better just slag off your opinion of Moyes'.

Firstly, re-read my post. I don't indicate whether I support or oppose Moyes's reign. You may imply that my post indicates I do, but my whole post is aimed at you and exposing your ever changing views to suit your hate for Moyes.

Not that it needs exposing. See Graham's post @758 for other examples. I await a classic Pete response to that, or will I save us all the time and respond for you? Something like 'Yes, you keep your blinkers on. Being beaten by Leeds proves he's the Moyesiah?' perhaps. That's generic enough that you don't actually have to explain your contradictory posts.

Kevin Tully
162 Posted 23/10/2012 at 09:43:21
Some good stat's from F365:

* Everton have taken exactly the same number of shots (157) as Man City this season. No club has taken more.
* Everton have become the first PL team to reach double figures for hitting the woodwork this season after Phil Jagielka and Sylvain Distin joined the club v QPR.
* Phil Neville found a teammate with 100% of his 31 passes v QPR on Sunday

James Martin
163 Posted 23/10/2012 at 09:45:30
Don't confuse the issue with facts Kevin, don't you have an unsubstantiated opinion to bring to the table instead?
James Fletcher
164 Posted 23/10/2012 at 09:57:10
Personally I thought that all of our players looked tired, but I can't really figure out why. Osman looked absolutely knackered from about the 60th minute but even the younger lads seemed to be struggling.
Eugene Ruane
165 Posted 23/10/2012 at 10:03:16
Kevin (833) - "Phil Neville found a teammate with 100% of his 31 passes v QPR on Sunday".

Fine.

But if you're interested in balance and/or truth, could you also include the 'fucked up, gave away possession, chased back like a twat and was responsible for giving away a goal' statistics?

Or maybe you could give us the 'passes that create something rather than 10 yard square balls that could be made made by a 13 year old boy' statistics?

Or the 'getting done for pace so keep giving away daft fouls' statistics.

Statistics might be 'facts' but they're selective and imo, rarely tell the story.

Kevin Tully
166 Posted 23/10/2012 at 11:04:07
Shsshh, Eugene, we still might get a tenner for him!
Tony J Williams
167 Posted 23/10/2012 at 12:07:14
Agree with you Eugene, but it is an interesting stat though. So many people, including me, have said he is wasteful in possession but that stat proves he wasn't on Sunday.

However, the pass may have been completed but it doesn't state whether it was twatted chest high at someone or that it was put in such an area as the man had three men around him.

Paul Andrews
168 Posted 23/10/2012 at 15:12:44
Statistics, more statistics and damned lies... who was it who said that?

The two above posts from Eugene & Tony tell you all you need to know about Neville's capability in centre mid. If Hibbert's not fit, full back is the only position he should play for us. Heitinga in centre mid for me if Fellaini or Gibson are not fit for Sunday; not ideal but he is a better passer of the ball, gets around the pitch better than Neville, and doesn`t mind a tackle. Got a shot on him as well.

The biggest problem I can see for us Sunday is Suarez dropping deep for the ball and running at us; we need someone capable of sitting in front of the back four to stop that.
Steve Smith
169 Posted 23/10/2012 at 15:47:26
Nevilles pass completion rate will always be good because most of them are square balls that travel about ten feet. I think another stat I read recently was that we win a lot more games with him in the side than we do without {likewise for Osman}, don't know if they're correct or not.

Moyes just has to stop fitting Neville in wherever he can, he did the same with Cahill and Saha, I think it's going to be more of the same this Sunday because of the lack of options unfortunately, I know he wouldn't do it, but it would be interesting to see if Duffy could do a job in a CM holding role, he looks as though he's got a bit more about him than just a centre half clogger.

Tony McNulty
170 Posted 23/10/2012 at 17:59:21
Message for Michael Kenrick - you do a wonderful job and we are all forever in your debt etc. etc. and we all know how difficult it is and all the time you put in etc. etc. BUT

Some mental defective on a day out from Rampton (and also a Shite supporter) got onto the live feed for this game. Watching the game was bad enough without some retard spouting out of the wrong orifice. For me, it was intruding on private grief. I am sure you will have taken the relevant steps before the derby.

Ciarán McGlone
171 Posted 23/10/2012 at 18:27:27
I'd love to see the stats for possession given away because Neville has completed a hospital pass... there were at least four on Sunday.
Graham Mockford
172 Posted 23/10/2012 at 22:02:33
Peter Barry #819 that ain't no straw man, that is verbatim quotes copied and pasted from a thread the afternoon before the Leeds game and then directly after the game.

As I am not mis quoting you, maybe I'm just misinterpreting you, I'm sure most people will make their own mind up, you were hoping for seven players to be picked, Davey amazingly actually did exactly that and then you said his team selection was at fault.
Can you not see the absurdity of your position?

Sam Hoare
173 Posted 23/10/2012 at 22:45:46
Peter Barry, I wonder if you could ever, under any circumstances admit that you may have been mistaken? If you can't do that here then I suspect the answer is no...
Brendan McLaughlin
174 Posted 23/10/2012 at 23:02:44
Graham 948
I suspect PETER PERFECTS response will be the old Morcambe & Wise classic....."Yes, Moyes played all of the RIGHT PLAYERS but not necessarily all in the RIGHT ORDER!"
Simon Harris
175 Posted 23/10/2012 at 23:10:36
Peter, it's time you fell on your sword and admitted the Moyster has forgotten more about footy than you (or I) will ever know.

Graham Mockford
176 Posted 23/10/2012 at 23:29:10
Brendan, as Eric would have said 'there's no answer to that' (coughs) 'Arsenal'
Brian Waring
177 Posted 25/10/2012 at 19:55:46
David (#762) It is sad that we will have Pienaar missing and maybe Fellaini, the point I was making, was that with these 2 missing and if the shite turn us over, there absence will be a ready made excuse for a defeat. By the way, even without them we should still be too good for the shite.

Jamie, we still should have enough to beat them, especially when the shite have been playing a fair few of the kids and will probalby do so againg in the derby.

Brent Stephens
178 Posted 25/10/2012 at 20:42:10
Peter Barry, in #820 you say, and I quote " ". So that about sums up your response?!

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