Phil Neville reacts in defence of Moyes

I heard from mates at the match that you got stick back and you fucking deserved it. I've been praying for a while now for some more vocal questioning of the gaffer's subs. It turned out well, good, but at the time it seemed senseless to many there, nearly everyone on the forum, and good old Ronnie Goodlass.

I hope against hope that you will not be a first team pick in 2013-14 but, mind you, this sort of headless brash "Don't knock the gaffer" shite is not going to harm you, is it?

Of course I should remember that you are, after all, 'a model pro': taking a dive, turning on the people who help to pay your grossly inflated salary, and, instead of having the integrity to apologize to our lifeblood – heat of the moment, head was on the game, gotta back the gaffer, and all that – your thanks at the end of your twit seem limp and lame to me at any rate.

Should have hung your boots up two years ago when you were half decent; this is one more thing, yet one more thing, to put in the debit side of Philip John Neville's account.

Pip the Skip needs to understand that we pay our way to get to these games and we want what is best. Thankfully the sub paid dividends.

Who's next?

And who wants to see us lose another one of those after last season's debacle? Travelling back from there last April was no picnic and it's not a journey I'd like to make again quite quickly.

A last four of Everton, Luton, MK Dons and Middlesbrough will do for me. Knowing our luck, replace Everton with Liverpool and that's more like it. Bitter... moi?

By and large, Evertonians are as patient and loyal as they come. Moyes's style won't be everyone's cup of tea (me for one) but, for the vast majority, actually calling Kenwright or Moyes out is a bridge too far. Only the threat of relegation or being treated as mugs will do that.

The inner sanctum of Neville, Moyes et al clearly think this majority silence is a vote that everything is peaches and cream with the proles – they are untouchable.

Mr Neville, if you read this, the word you need to look up is "simmering".

And unlikely as it seemed the sub done good and won the game. Well in Moyesy.

Taking this into consideration, after due reflection and after consulting my legal team, my message to Phil 'Head Boy' Neville is: Eff right off!

Seems he's jockeying for the next coaches role...

Was it: We didn't look like scoring with Jelli and a replay is not the worst result in a tricky away cuptie?

Or was it: I don't need a replay at this stage of the season, top 4 is the be-all and end-all, so let's push up Fellaini, if we pinch a winner, all's well that ends well.

We will never know — and Moyes is not going to say, "I got lucky".

I suspect that the people complaining about the substitution were the same as the ones who love to tell us all that 'Jelavic has been found out' and 'can't do it anymore', yet when he is substituted so Fella can go up top, throw their toys out of the pram.

I think the stats will show that we do score a high percentage of goals in the last ten minutes compared to other teams. This has lots to do with Moyes' practice of bringing on subs late to create impact against tiring opponents,

Some of us just look at who is called-upon and how long they are given to bring about a satisfactory conclusion, and use our own varied experiences to determine whether we think they are the best / only options.

You do realise that what you are saying is that the manager's tactics (as you present them) can be reduced to hanging-on in games and then gambling all on a late flourish? Pretty much the much maligned KITAP1 we were hoping we had seen the last of.

The problem with those who are berating those who questioned the substitution at the time (with boos at the game, or comments on the live forum) is that no-one knew at the time what was going to happen, and no-one would have predicted that JH would be a more likely scorer of the match-winning goal than the likes of Vellios. Most people probably thought JH would go into central defence, Jags would go to right back and Pip would do his scurrying in front of our back four. That formation hasn't been paying big dividends lately and would definitely be seen as the most conservative of the options available to the manager at the time.

The squad needs strengthening, we all know it, it's just a matter of can we wheel and deal before the window closes. It's frustrating watching others spend, however I'd rather us not sign anyone, than make an expensive mistake. If he is pitching at players like M'Vila, I am optimistic. We can't afford a Beattie, Simon Davies, AvdM, Bily mistake.

Do we have even one top class coach on the staff? It's very doubtful. Too many bootlickin' ex-players. Jobs for the boys. No-one with the knowledge and strength to tell DM where things are going wrong.

Sir Alex MAKES first team players. He doesn't expect them all to be readymade. Jones, Smalling, Anderson, Welbeck Evans, the young right back and many others over the years. We've seen them having nightmare after nightmare but if he thinks the talent is there he perseveres.....and I'm not talking about the odd 5 or 10 minutes. These lads have progressed because he throws them in the deep end in front of 76,000 fans. The ultimate test of fortitude and character. Novice gladiators in the Colliseum.

I was stirred to write the last paragraph by a recent post which suggested that substitutions in a certain match were impossible because we had no first team players on the bench. Partly correct of course, but till DM plucks up the courage to chuck them into the lions den they will never have the chance to progress into regular first team players... and they should be in the starting line-up. Not chasing a last minute equaliser or defending The Alamo.

DM has managed the club well and has had my support despite filling me with frustration. He also has my sympathy when I see what lesser managers can spend and he cannot. However, even though we are in fifth place, enough is enough. I can't take it any more. It's not because we were outplayed by Southampton and Bolton. These things happen. It's just that I no longer agree with the way he operates. I expect my manager to manage and shape the whole squad – not just a certain section of it.

The fact that Heitinga scored the winner does in no way cover Moyes's ineptitude and lack of positivity. He just got away with it. Yes, of course we are through and in the Cup that's important. But what went on before Heitinga's 90+ winner was very very poor and typical I believe of Mr Moyes approach. Certainly after Monday's debacle against Southampton it was another pitiful display by (again) most of the players.

We all agreed before the match that it was the best starting 11 we had available but, yet again (as we are witnessing a great deal lately) several, in fact the majority, of players just seemed to not be playing well at all.

If Moyes receives the plaudits when we win he deserves the criticism when we do not. Yes, we won but I am sure most Evertonians who were there will agree it was again a very very lacklustre performance with no imagination, little controlled play and very poor link-up between the players. As on Monday evening, the players looked like they hardly knew each other or trained together.

We are through to the next round. I wonder who and how we will play then? Indeed, I wonder what Wednesday evening will be like.... I have my thoughts on that.

As always, great support for The Blues.

Horrible place, Bolton.

Harold Matthews 024 et al — lads we are 5th in the league and through to the 5th round of the cup, cheer up you miserable sods!

COYB

Not agreeing with a sub or the standard of play or not accepting absolute tripe when it's delivered to me does not make me a miserable sod.

Actually some of the things Moyes does make me laugh.

For me, the point is Neville's response to the boos. Moyes's substitution was OK and the fans have a right to boo... but Neville does NOT have a right to lecture our supporters for not getting behind the team. It's totally out of order.

Jones £16.5m
Anderson £20.4m
Smalling £8m

Hardly plucked unknowns out the air did he? You do know that the most Everton have ever spent on a player is Fellaini at ~£15m (ie cheaper than the first two on your list) and the most we've spent on a defender is £6m (less than Smalling).

Fucking magic that Fergie, isn't he!

That is a great post - and echoes my feelings to a degree.

I'm always careful what I wish for because, for me, Moyes has been fantastic for this club.

The thing that is really getting to me is his management style. We have no money, that is something he cannot change. What we do have is a terrific youth system that has developed players very well up to the age of 16. Obviously the next two years are very much make or break in a young footballers career, but far too many Everton prospects have sunk at that age without a trace.

Has anyone seen Kennedy, Junior and McAleny play for our reserves? I have not seen a single game where they haven't looked outstanding and Gueye hasn't looked truly awful. Yet for some reason they can't get near the team.

Okay so maybe Moyes is worried about the pressure on them. Worried about them making mistakes. Well what about the Cheltenham game? We were 4-0 up and he brought on Naismith, Hitzlsperger and Heitinga if I recall correctly. Barkley sat patiently on the bench.

If we can't buy players then can we at least try and give our own a chance?! How many mistakes do Neville/Naismith make in a game? Why is a youngster not allowed to do the same?

I'm also really starting to resent Moyes's whole demeanour. His utter contempt for the media is understandable, but doesn't he realise that this is also how he communicates to the fans? Maybe that's unfair. Maybe he's just not a particularly jovial character. He just seems to be almost arrogant these days. It's a trait I've never liked, even in a sportsman.

Again, I best say I'd be gutted if he left and I'd really worry for the future. But there is an awful lot he could do better and he seemingly refuses to address it.

Actually he is. That 's why the world's 2nd biggest club has employed him for over a quarter of a century.

Then take into account that two of his most influential players Gibson and Mirallas have missed a huge chunk of the season and his striker has run into poor form for the last 2 months. Yet we are 5th in the league and have overcome what could have been 2 tricky away cup ties to progress to the 5th round of the FA Cup.

He has got no money to go into the market to bolster his wafer thin squad, and yet some fans still criticize the guy. I think far from having a go we should be praising this man for the amazing job he has done and is still doing.

http://www.soccerstats.com/timing.asp?league=england

Joint 8th for scoring in the last 15 minutes.

He Brought on a Sub to allow our Top scorer, yes Top scorer by a country mile to go up Top. We were still palying 2 up front also for Christ sake so its not as if we reverted to 4-6-0.

Jesus cheer up lads.

Moyes destroys talent. Of that there is no doubt. Gifted youngsters come to our club and learn nothing. Instead of going forward, they go backwards. They are his responsibility but he refuses to bring in high class, highly skilled coaches to help raise their technical levels and teach them every aspect of the game. Eventually they deteriorate, move to a lesser club and try to pick up the pieces.

Phil Sammon. Nice one. Thanks. Like you I have gone off the man himself. The person he has become.

Getting outplayed/outpassed by teams built for far less is frustrating, and the fault lies in large part with the manager. Moyes should not need more money to be able to beat Bolton, or play good football against them. I can accept the rationale with being out-fought by a lower league team, but to have them playing the technically better football is inexcusable.

As for the fans booing, exactly when and how are paying supporters meant to show their disapproval? Booing during a substitution is basically targeted at the manager. I think booing players during the game is completely self-defeating. The players don't pick themselves and the fans should always be behind them while they're on the pitch.

Some people are never happy and no matter what they just whinge about everything that Moyes does or attempts. I know it is frustration but it sounds more like spoilt child syndrome.

Usually teams like Chelsea get outfought or the opposition put 11 behind the ball, hold out for 85 minutes, then nick a goal from a set piece.

Moyes's teams have been guilty of not only losing to lower league opposition with alarming regularity (and it's acceptable but annoying to lose a cup game), but alarmingly they often out-play us too.

All the bollocks people spout about needing more money is just silly. You need more money to beat a Championship side???!?!

There is a distinct lack of competition for places in every position and, even then when we have players so out of form, we have no Plan B. Moyes has become pretty stale, the team lacks something, perhaps a decent leader on the park other than someone running around pointing and shouting and playing aimless balls back to the keeper.

Maybe selling Baines and Fellaini and raising say £40mil would allow Moyes to do what he does best and bring in those hidden gems. I for one would understand completely if this was the only way forward. Wenger gets £24mil for RVP and brings in 3-4 players who are now starting to find their feet in the Prem... According to Big Sam, Arsenal were in another league the other night when they buried WHU.

Patrick Murphy, to be fair, the supporters did not know that Fellaini was being pushed up top when the sub was happening.

I know that you didn't boo and I respect that. But to the folks who think we should not boo the blues, I have to say that that is bollocks. When does the average committed fan get a chance to express her/his opinion at our club? I hope that Moyes takes note but I doubt that he will.

And did you see the Leeds vs Spurs game? Leeds were the better team for chunks of the match.

Cup games are not like league matches...they inevitably mean more to the non-Prem team. In the last 24 hours, Norwich have lost at home to Luton, QPR have let in 4 at home to MK Dons, Chelski have drawn with a league 1 side, and Spurs have lost to Leeds. Without looking at other 'upsets', clearly playing lower division teams is not as easy as it appears on paper. But you know what... we had more shots, more possessions, more corners, and most importantly, more goals. I think your comment: 'Moyes should not need more money to be able to beat Bolton...' is a good one... and he didn't did he?

And yes there is a correlation between FA Cup success and money... check out the winners in the last decade, and where they finished in the league. If we swap a couple of players out of starting line-up... we get considerably worse... whereas Man Utd can swap RvP and Welbeck for Rooney and Hernandez. That's the difference. When we lose Mirallas (and some other players), we have options which essentially are worse than some Championship team... personally I'd take Chris Eagles over Gueye, or Lee over Hitz. The difference between us and them is less than has been represented on here... if it wasn't, we wouldn't get so many upsets.

Patrick Murphy, to be fair, the supporters did not know that Fellaini was being pushed up top when the sub was happening

That's right, how many fans really do KNOW what is going on in the Manager's head? So why not stop booing and wait and see what happens? Too many armchair/keyboard experts and fans at the game just waiting to throw some abuse at the drop of a hat.

Winning when not playing well has long been acknowledged as a sign of a good team. Someone said the game at Southampton was a debacle! You would have thought we lost 5-0, but actually took a point from a team in form, just like Arsenal did there 2 weeks ago and nobody called that a debacle!

Booing your own Team is pathetic.

I saw supporters boo in away matches at the end of games when the players simply hadn't tried and in the 90s there was a fair bit of this, even in Joe Royle's era. Wimbledon 0 - 4 at Selhurst had the large away following baying like demented bulls.

That said, Pip's tweet rings a bit hollow. Sounds like he is trying to laugh something off which could have caused a ruck. Players tweeting shite like this gets on my nerves and Pip comes across as a bit of a twittering tit.

Unlike some contributors to this "fans" forum, I don't expect all our players to be all in-form all at the same time. I have a minimum baseline that, when they pull on the blue shirt, that they play with the desire and will to give all they have every game with all the skill that they have. There will be days when it's not happening, but if they are working their socks off to get through it and trying to make things happen then it will come right.

I consider that we are all in this together and if you have a constructive comment to make then fine but meaningless abuse is pathetic. You do all have a right to your own opinions, especially if you have paid good money, and I realise that you don't need my permission before the nit pickers that infest this site start up.

Come on you Super Latics!

Funny how he feels he needs to mouth off at the supporters for venting their frustration at a decision that seemed defensive, "Let's shut up shop and take the replay" type of substitution, cos I'd've thought that at the time, regardless of it turning out to be inspired!

It's about time our Captain had a word with himself about his own form and had the bollocks to give his team mates a bit of bollocking for playing shite like they have recently. Cos that's what we're lacking at the min IMO, individuals in the team that aren't afraid to get into teammates' ribs when they aren't pulling their weight and demand more from em!.

Lets not kid ourselves, taking a striker off for a defender was a negative tactical decision designed to settle for a replay back at Goodison. There is no way Moyes was ever thinking that Heitinga was going to be the match winner. In the end, it proved an astute substitution but that was luck rather than judgment. Irrespective of what transpired, you can't hide the fact that the thinking behind the substitution was to ensure we didn't concede. That, for many traveling Evertonians was - in the moment - a poor decision. Thankfully, it ironically proved not to be.

I accept that cup games against lower league opposition are one-offs and tricky. However only the most blinkered can fail to notice the parallels between our games against these sides and our games against struggling premiership sides, where we've been unable to win.

Moyes does indeed need cash to be able to fairly compete with the 6 or 7 teams that have more money than us. He shouldn't need it to compete with the rest.

I'll take the odd dodgy cup match when we're on the cusp of CL. So would Liverpool.

Yeah he's well paid, and yeah we pay to go see games, but who makes either of those choices? The very first response to this thread made me want to never log in here again - what a terrible attitude you have to your clubs Captain.

I thought that post was a real shame, and something of an embarrassment.

He may not be Evertonian by blood, or lifelong in any sense, but to suggest that he doesn't really care is utter nonsense. The guy works his arse off every week, albeit that most people don't see him as the most talented. Every team needs a Phil Neville - fact.

The last person to publicly berate the paying followers of Everton was a certain Mr. Johnson and that didn't do him any good did it? It has been said that Mr Kenwright has also criticised the fans in the past and he is not Mr Popular either.

Everton as a club has always performed at its best when the board, the playing staff and the fans are all singing from the same hymn sheet. Phil has apologised and that's fair enough, but I hope he is not as quick to have a go at the fans the next time they show how they feel about a given situation.

Sod that, I like a player to be human, have a voice and dare to give a shit and if that means gesturing to fans then good on him. We the fans are not always right - in fact our opinions are largely so biased that they're often completely wrong.

What was he supposed to do, have a quiet word in the gaffer's ear? I can just see it - "come on David, this is ridiculous, the fans can see it, give the free scoring Croatian a few more minutes and while we're at it, can we get Barkley back from Leeds?"

Neville's game is not up to what it should be but whilst he's captain I applaud his passion and the accompanying apology.

We'll all know a lot more about where the club is heading by the end of the transfer window, maybe then there'll be good reason to boo.

Joint 8th for scoring in the last 15 minutes."

Thanks for that info Bobby, but I have had a look myself and we appear to be joint sixth with 3 other teams with 8 (7 conceded) in the last 15 minutes (also includes extra time minutes). For the last 10 minutes, which was Jason's figure, we slip down to joint tenth with 5 scored (5 conceded).

I guess joint sixth isn't bad, but it doesn't appear to be the tactical masterstroke that Jason was presenting, especially with the number conceded in the same period.

Personally, I have always given the manager credit for the players conditioning which allows them to keep going for the full 90+ minutes when other teams aren't always able to do so. Unfortunately this season I fear the small squad, ageing players, and the general failure to make more use of the three extra players available in each game, will cause us problems in the remainder of this season.

Verbal abuse may stretch into the realms of excess, but simply booing is about the mildest way to show disapproval / disagreement that a fan at the match has at their disposal.

I'm not sure, booing for me demonstrates the highest level of verbal abuse and it is easily picked up by the players as such hence Neville's anger. Would it not be better to accept the change and express disatisfaction if it didn't work?

Like I say though, the fans pay a lot of money to go and see the games and have a right to criticise. It's a sign of the times though that in all walks of life we feel now that we have the right to moan and we seem to take it to ever higher levels?

Felli made a howler in the second half, cause he is not a holding midfielder. Almost immediately DM put JH in that slot, and put Felli up front. Far from being a defensive move, it tighened up the middle of the park and put Felli in his recently found forward role. To a lady who was moaning behind me, I said the same thing at the time. The fact that JH eventually got the winner was just reward for DM's foresight.

As for Neville, DM picks him, so that's good enough for me.

Given the way JH and Phil Neville have been used recently, I would have thought it was at least an even bet that Pip would go into midfield and our defence would be shuffled to accommodate JH. The Neville / Osman combination hasn't looked particularly effective recently, even with Fellaini playing in the advanced role, and I think most people thought that the manager was reverting to his most trusted midfield pairing to see out the game, more than putting Fellaini forward to get the goal, and that is what they were booing.

Okay, they were wrong to see it as negative and should be big enough to admit it, but why wouldn't people be disappointed if they thought the manager was simply looking for our elder statesmen to lock out the game in the middle? To move Fellaini forward we were still sacrificing a striker, so it can be said to be only marginally positive because Fellaini is seen as more of a threat than Jelavic in his current form. We have still seen Jelavic convert the odd chance so it wasn't like he could not have got on the end of one in the last 10 minutes or so.

If supporters cannot boo what they consider to be a poor managerial decision then we really should fill empty seats with mannequins. I respect Phil Neville but he comes across, in this instance as a precious, needy idiot.