Phil Neville reacts in defence of Moyes

, 26 January, 88comments  |  Jump to most recent

© Gareth Jones, Liverpool Echo
Everton captain Phil Neville's loyalty to manager David Moyes came to the fore at the climactic end of the Blues' FA Cup tie at Bolton in a spur-of-the-moment dressing down of those traveling fans who had booed the decision to replace Nikica Jelavic with eventual goal-scoring hero John Heitinga.

With Everton struggling to break down the Championship side's resilience despite an improved second-half display at the Reebok Stadium, Moyes elected to withdraw Jelavic and introduce Heitinga, primarily a central defender, with 10 minutes to go.

Though greeted with a chorus of boos by a significant number among the frustrated visiting fans who viewed it as a defensive move aimed at preserving the status quo, the substitution paid handsome dividends when the Dutchman smashed home the last-minute winner that sent the Blues through to the Fifth Round.

And Skipper Neville made no secret of his feelings regarding the supporters' initial reaction, bellowing at them, saliva flying, in the wake of Heitinga's dramatic strike as they celebrated the goal.

Neville took to Twitter after the game to explain his adrenaline-fueled rant and thanked the fans for their support:

Got a bit fired up when heard boos for the sub then the sub scores the winner at my age need to keep calm-thanks for the amazing support!!

Moyes explained his decision after the game as a tactical one rather than being aimed at ensuring a replay.

"We needed to try and find another tactical way of trying to create a goal," he said.

Everton had gone ahead midway through the first half when Victor Anichebe's shot took a favourable deflection off Steven Pienaar but Bolton leveled soon afterwards through Marvin Sordell.

The Blues will find out who they will face in the next round when the draw is made tomorrow afternoon. They will be ball number 16 when the draw takes place at 5:45pm.

 

Reader Comments (88)

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Paul Ferry
2 Posted 26/01/2013 at 22:37:46
Stick to bellowing at your team, Skip, than at the people for whom this club means far more than it will ever do to you, long before you got shipped out of Man Utd and long after you leave us for the last time.

I heard from mates at the match that you got stick back and you fucking deserved it. I've been praying for a while now for some more vocal questioning of the gaffer's subs. It turned out well, good, but at the time it seemed senseless to many there, nearly everyone on the forum, and good old Ronnie Goodlass.

I hope against hope that you will not be a first team pick in 2013-14 but, mind you, this sort of headless brash "Don't knock the gaffer" shite is not going to harm you, is it?

Of course I should remember that you are, after all, 'a model pro': taking a dive, turning on the people who help to pay your grossly inflated salary, and, instead of having the integrity to apologize to our lifeblood – heat of the moment, head was on the game, gotta back the gaffer, and all that – your thanks at the end of your twit seem limp and lame to me at any rate.

Should have hung your boots up two years ago when you were half decent; this is one more thing, yet one more thing, to put in the debit side of Philip John Neville's account.

Mark Lennon
3 Posted 26/01/2013 at 22:50:06
I was there and at the time it seemed to be a defensive substitution. Anyone would think it seeing a forward being replaced for a defender/defensive midfielder. We are entitled to be upset/concerned/passionate.

Pip the Skip needs to understand that we pay our way to get to these games and we want what is best. Thankfully the sub paid dividends.

Who's next?

Andy Meighan
4 Posted 26/01/2013 at 22:56:02
Unless Man Utd, Man City, Chelsea, Arsenal and even them things from across the park get knocked out, there's not a prayer we will win the cup. I'd say, given a favourable draw next round, we won't go as far as the quarterfinal... possibly semifinal.

And who wants to see us lose another one of those after last season's debacle? Travelling back from there last April was no picnic and it's not a journey I'd like to make again quite quickly.

A last four of Everton, Luton, MK Dons and Middlesbrough will do for me. Knowing our luck, replace Everton with Liverpool and that's more like it. Bitter... moi?

James Morgan
6 Posted 26/01/2013 at 23:17:40
Did Neville tweet this before or after he polished Moyes's shoes?
Barry Rathbone
7 Posted 26/01/2013 at 22:57:57
It's building this "them and us" thing, Moyes not signing a new contract before now just smacks of keeping his options open and fans are getting miffed as we revert back to limping along.

By and large, Evertonians are as patient and loyal as they come. Moyes's style won't be everyone's cup of tea (me for one) but, for the vast majority, actually calling Kenwright or Moyes out is a bridge too far. Only the threat of relegation or being treated as mugs will do that.

The inner sanctum of Neville, Moyes et al clearly think this majority silence is a vote that everything is peaches and cream with the proles – they are untouchable.

Mr Neville, if you read this, the word you need to look up is "simmering".

Dennis Shaw
8 Posted 26/01/2013 at 23:21:22
Neville should just have been counting his blessings it wasn't him dragged off for the amount of times he ballooned the ball up into the air.
Derek Williams
9 Posted 26/01/2013 at 23:25:38
We won. We're in the hat. End of!

And unlikely as it seemed the sub done good and won the game. Well in Moyesy.

Kev Johnson
10 Posted 26/01/2013 at 23:46:19
Fair enough. the substitution worked - and I can see how it wasn't necessarily designed as a negative move (Jelavic not performing, so Heitinga to hold in midfield and Fellaini to push up) - but given the manager's awful record of dismal, mistimed substitutions it's hardly surprising the fans felt like booing when our centre forward was taken off.

Taking this into consideration, after due reflection and after consulting my legal team, my message to Phil 'Head Boy' Neville is: Eff right off!

Christopher Kelly
11 Posted 27/01/2013 at 00:36:52
Shut it Neville.

Seems he's jockeying for the next coaches role...

Derek Thomas
12 Posted 27/01/2013 at 00:29:55
We will never know just what was the basis for the substitution.

Was it: We didn't look like scoring with Jelli and a replay is not the worst result in a tricky away cuptie?

Or was it: I don't need a replay at this stage of the season, top 4 is the be-all and end-all, so let's push up Fellaini, if we pinch a winner, all's well that ends well.

We will never know — and Moyes is not going to say, "I got lucky".

Karl Masters
13 Posted 27/01/2013 at 01:00:10
I think Moyes's substitution decisions have improved tremendously in recent years. Today was another good one. Some of the people on here just love moaning and hurling insults even when we win. Funny kind of 'support' in my book.

I suspect that the people complaining about the substitution were the same as the ones who love to tell us all that 'Jelavic has been found out' and 'can't do it anymore', yet when he is substituted so Fella can go up top, throw their toys out of the pram.

Jason Heng
14 Posted 27/01/2013 at 01:12:35
Kev, how is Moyes associated with an "awful record of dismal, mistimed substitutions"?

I think the stats will show that we do score a high percentage of goals in the last ten minutes compared to other teams. This has lots to do with Moyes' practice of bringing on subs late to create impact against tiring opponents,

Ste Traverse
15 Posted 27/01/2013 at 01:30:28
To Phil Neville, playing for this club is just a job. Most of us will still be freezing our bollocks off at Goodison while he's cheering on the Mancs at OT when his career is over.
Andy Crooks
16 Posted 27/01/2013 at 01:31:42
Karl, it seems to me that bringing on Heitinga was a negative ploy that got lucky. The admirable Phil Neville is talking well intentioned nonsense which makes him appear foolish. The boos were richly deserved. Anyone who can come on here and think that this was a good tactical move, ie, Moyes thought Heitinga would get the winner, or even help get it, really needs to consider that Moyes isn't as great as Strachan thinks he is.
Si Cooper
17 Posted 27/01/2013 at 01:34:35
Can you substantiate that claim Jason, considering you think the evidence exists?

Some of us just look at who is called-upon and how long they are given to bring about a satisfactory conclusion, and use our own varied experiences to determine whether we think they are the best / only options.

You do realise that what you are saying is that the manager's tactics (as you present them) can be reduced to hanging-on in games and then gambling all on a late flourish? Pretty much the much maligned KITAP1 we were hoping we had seen the last of.

Si Cooper
18 Posted 27/01/2013 at 01:47:42
To be fair Andy, I think most would see pushing Fellaini forward as at least offering attacking threat. Taking an attacker off to do this makes it effectively neutral (whereas putting another attacker on AND moving Fellaini forward would be an out-and-out positive move) but it can't be considered to be negative either.

The problem with those who are berating those who questioned the substitution at the time (with boos at the game, or comments on the live forum) is that no-one knew at the time what was going to happen, and no-one would have predicted that JH would be a more likely scorer of the match-winning goal than the likes of Vellios. Most people probably thought JH would go into central defence, Jags would go to right back and Pip would do his scurrying in front of our back four. That formation hasn't been paying big dividends lately and would definitely be seen as the most conservative of the options available to the manager at the time.

Anto Byrne
20 Posted 27/01/2013 at 04:28:16
Simple tactic to take what we have and do the job at home. Got lucky by all accounts, about time we had some luck go our way for a change. Classic Moyes stuff though. (Distin for Saha wasn't so lucky.)
Mark Stone
21 Posted 27/01/2013 at 08:17:47
Swerve going the match to boo your team. Do not give me that shit.
Paul Gladwell
22 Posted 27/01/2013 at 09:04:06
Mark if people did that the away end would have been empty yesterday as the whole end booed. I was there: we were shocking in a game when Osman and our curly haired superstar should have been running the show. Instead, some kid for Bolton was passing us to death at one stage... Time to gamble and flog Fellaini and bring in two fresh faces.
Ian Bennett
23 Posted 27/01/2013 at 08:47:15
If he had a talented midfielder or striker on the bench that he ignored, I can understand the point. He didn't. Fellaini hadn't, as I understood it, played great in midfield, which appears to be another theme/thread. Moyes moved him up top, clearly thinking, he was more likely to score than what what was on the bench and presented the better opportunity to win the game. Heitinga, it appears, was the best of a very limited choice from a threadbare squad, with Moyes turning to experience to see the game through away from home.

The squad needs strengthening, we all know it, it's just a matter of can we wheel and deal before the window closes. It's frustrating watching others spend, however I'd rather us not sign anyone, than make an expensive mistake. If he is pitching at players like M'Vila, I am optimistic. We can't afford a Beattie, Simon Davies, AvdM, Bily mistake.

Duncan Lems
24 Posted 27/01/2013 at 09:09:07
Beatie, Johnson, Yakubu, Saha, Cahill and now Jelavic all lost their confidence upfront the goal. The negative tactics have taken its toll for these players. David Moyes — the forward's Gravedigger.
Harold Matthews
25 Posted 27/01/2013 at 07:02:24
Great result, but, by all accounts, Bolton battered us.

Do we have even one top class coach on the staff? It's very doubtful. Too many bootlickin' ex-players. Jobs for the boys. No-one with the knowledge and strength to tell DM where things are going wrong.

Sir Alex MAKES first team players. He doesn't expect them all to be readymade. Jones, Smalling, Anderson, Welbeck Evans, the young right back and many others over the years. We've seen them having nightmare after nightmare but if he thinks the talent is there he perseveres.....and I'm not talking about the odd 5 or 10 minutes. These lads have progressed because he throws them in the deep end in front of 76,000 fans. The ultimate test of fortitude and character. Novice gladiators in the Colliseum.

I was stirred to write the last paragraph by a recent post which suggested that substitutions in a certain match were impossible because we had no first team players on the bench. Partly correct of course, but till DM plucks up the courage to chuck them into the lions den they will never have the chance to progress into regular first team players... and they should be in the starting line-up. Not chasing a last minute equaliser or defending The Alamo.

DM has managed the club well and has had my support despite filling me with frustration. He also has my sympathy when I see what lesser managers can spend and he cannot. However, even though we are in fifth place, enough is enough. I can't take it any more. It's not because we were outplayed by Southampton and Bolton. These things happen. It's just that I no longer agree with the way he operates. I expect my manager to manage and shape the whole squad – not just a certain section of it.

George McKane
26 Posted 27/01/2013 at 09:52:44
Having driven to Bolton, a place that I have always found horrible, being cold and listening to a stream of anti-Scouse ranting all day... Then to watch an absolute dire performance from the team, bored and certainly unexcited watching mostly dreadful, unimaginative football from Everton against a very very average Bolton team... Finally to see the manager bring on a defender for the last 10 minutes or so, hoping I guess to get a draw and, let's be honest, as much as I am guessing his intentions, he has a record and history of looking to save the draw, was for me dreadful and unacceptable.

The fact that Heitinga scored the winner does in no way cover Moyes's ineptitude and lack of positivity. He just got away with it. Yes, of course we are through and in the Cup that's important. But what went on before Heitinga's 90+ winner was very very poor and typical I believe of Mr Moyes approach. Certainly after Monday's debacle against Southampton it was another pitiful display by (again) most of the players.

We all agreed before the match that it was the best starting 11 we had available but, yet again (as we are witnessing a great deal lately) several, in fact the majority, of players just seemed to not be playing well at all.

If Moyes receives the plaudits when we win he deserves the criticism when we do not. Yes, we won but I am sure most Evertonians who were there will agree it was again a very very lacklustre performance with no imagination, little controlled play and very poor link-up between the players. As on Monday evening, the players looked like they hardly knew each other or trained together.

We are through to the next round. I wonder who and how we will play then? Indeed, I wonder what Wednesday evening will be like.... I have my thoughts on that.

As always, great support for The Blues.

Horrible place, Bolton.

Andrew Flanagan
27 Posted 27/01/2013 at 10:26:55
Booing a substitution, regardless of whether you agree with it or not, is poor. Get behind the team FFS.

Harold Matthews 024 et al — lads we are 5th in the league and through to the 5th round of the cup, cheer up you miserable sods!

COYB

George McKane
28 Posted 27/01/2013 at 10:39:25
I didn't boo and don't. I am not a miserable sod. I am just generally bored with Moyes's brand of football — especially the last few weeks have been very poor indeed.

Not agreeing with a sub or the standard of play or not accepting absolute tripe when it's delivered to me does not make me a miserable sod.

Actually some of the things Moyes does make me laugh.

Bobby Mallon
29 Posted 27/01/2013 at 10:25:06
Barry Rathbone, we are being treated as mugs and have been for a long time. Moyes needs to sign or tell us he ain't going to, so we can start looking for his replacement.
Kev Johnson
30 Posted 27/01/2013 at 10:55:59
Andrew - never was there a more miserable sod than Mr Moyes. He's bloody grim, there's not a trace of fun or good humour about him! So It's a bit rich sticking the "miserable" label on fans who are legitimately complain about the team's performance.

For me, the point is Neville's response to the boos. Moyes's substitution was OK and the fans have a right to boo... but Neville does NOT have a right to lecture our supporters for not getting behind the team. It's totally out of order.

Mark Stone
31 Posted 27/01/2013 at 11:34:58
Paul #12 booing your own team is shite lad.
Andy Crooks
32 Posted 27/01/2013 at 11:50:42
Mark, I agree to a large extent. Certainly getting on the back of individuals is indefensible. However, I think that yesterday was frustration at what looked like a negative substitution.
Mark Stone
33 Posted 27/01/2013 at 11:47:26
Give over Harold #24 this has to be a wind up 'Sir Alex MAKES first team players. He doesn't expect them all to be readymade. Jones, Smalling, Anderson'

Jones £16.5m
Anderson £20.4m
Smalling £8m

Hardly plucked unknowns out the air did he? You do know that the most Everton have ever spent on a player is Fellaini at ~£15m (ie cheaper than the first two on your list) and the most we've spent on a defender is £6m (less than Smalling).

Fucking magic that Fergie, isn't he!

Mark Stone
34 Posted 27/01/2013 at 11:56:48
Yeah it was frustration Andy, but booing your own team is still shite.
Phil Sammon
35 Posted 27/01/2013 at 11:37:15
Harold Matthews

That is a great post - and echoes my feelings to a degree.

I'm always careful what I wish for because, for me, Moyes has been fantastic for this club.

The thing that is really getting to me is his management style. We have no money, that is something he cannot change. What we do have is a terrific youth system that has developed players very well up to the age of 16. Obviously the next two years are very much make or break in a young footballers career, but far too many Everton prospects have sunk at that age without a trace.

Has anyone seen Kennedy, Junior and McAleny play for our reserves? I have not seen a single game where they haven't looked outstanding and Gueye hasn't looked truly awful. Yet for some reason they can't get near the team.

Okay so maybe Moyes is worried about the pressure on them. Worried about them making mistakes. Well what about the Cheltenham game? We were 4-0 up and he brought on Naismith, Hitzlsperger and Heitinga if I recall correctly. Barkley sat patiently on the bench.

If we can't buy players then can we at least try and give our own a chance?! How many mistakes do Neville/Naismith make in a game? Why is a youngster not allowed to do the same?

I'm also really starting to resent Moyes's whole demeanour. His utter contempt for the media is understandable, but doesn't he realise that this is also how he communicates to the fans? Maybe that's unfair. Maybe he's just not a particularly jovial character. He just seems to be almost arrogant these days. It's a trait I've never liked, even in a sportsman.

Again, I best say I'd be gutted if he left and I'd really worry for the future. But there is an awful lot he could do better and he seemingly refuses to address it.

Nick Waters
36 Posted 27/01/2013 at 11:57:22
'Fucking magic that Fergie, isn't he!'

Actually he is. That 's why the world's 2nd biggest club has employed him for over a quarter of a century.

Kev Johnson
37 Posted 27/01/2013 at 12:08:26
Fergsuson's record speaks for itself, but Mark made a good point: Jones and Smalling cost a lot of money, they weren't "made" by the manager, as Harold suggested.
Brian Harrison
38 Posted 27/01/2013 at 12:00:20
I can't believe the stick some of our fans hand out to David Moyes, the guy has made us into a top 6 team despite limited funds compared to teams fighting for a top 6 finish. I think some of our fans have short memories – even his biggest critics admit that this season we have played some great football, and should have a further 6 or 7 points more than they have.

Then take into account that two of his most influential players Gibson and Mirallas have missed a huge chunk of the season and his striker has run into poor form for the last 2 months. Yet we are 5th in the league and have overcome what could have been 2 tricky away cup ties to progress to the 5th round of the FA Cup.

He has got no money to go into the market to bolster his wafer thin squad, and yet some fans still criticize the guy. I think far from having a go we should be praising this man for the amazing job he has done and is still doing.

Steavey Buckley
39 Posted 27/01/2013 at 12:07:59
To be successful, year-in, year-in, a club must have a very good manager, good finances supplied by a very good board of directors. Evertonians are always debating the first without the manager having any real finances from a board that won't give him any...
Ged Simpson
40 Posted 27/01/2013 at 11:45:58
I'll give you that George - you are far from a miserable sod.
Ged Simpson
42 Posted 27/01/2013 at 11:45:58
Dup
George McKane
43 Posted 27/01/2013 at 12:33:22
Thanks Ged — hope you are well. Of course it's football — it's all opinion and emotion, not logical at all... the main thing is we can all agree or disagree without hurting anyone and always be True Blues.
Mark Stone
44 Posted 27/01/2013 at 13:22:19
Yeah Nick, he's just sits in his little grotto and sprinles a bit of his magic dust, transforming these £15-20m nobodies into good players. It really is quite astonishing.
Bobby Thomas
45 Posted 27/01/2013 at 13:26:44
Jason Heng/Si Cooper

http://www.soccerstats.com/timing.asp?league=england

Joint 8th for scoring in the last 15 minutes.

Ian Bennett
46 Posted 27/01/2013 at 13:41:30
He made Rooney so we are told, hey wait a minute...... Didn't he play for someone else at the euros.
Brian Murphy
47 Posted 27/01/2013 at 13:48:54
I cant belive all the neagtivity on here about the Sub.

He Brought on a Sub to allow our Top scorer, yes Top scorer by a country mile to go up Top. We were still palying 2 up front also for Christ sake so its not as if we reverted to 4-6-0.

Jesus cheer up lads.

Mark Stone
48 Posted 27/01/2013 at 13:59:00
Ian, no mate, Fergie spotted him playing on the street with his mates in crocky. He was short and fat and shit at footy and all his mates were taking the piss out of him for being so shit. Fergie felt sorry for him so sprinkled £30m worth of that magic dust over his head and .. hey presto!
Anto Byrne
49 Posted 27/01/2013 at 13:48:43
WBA at home and I for one will be happy with a 1 - 0 result given the way we are playing. Maybe Gibbo will be fit and there will be a couple of loan signings to cheer us up a bit. We are in fact 5th on the table and thru to the 5th round. We must be happy with that?
Harold Matthews
50 Posted 27/01/2013 at 14:14:47
Got to disagree Kev. Jones and Smalling had above average talent and cost a tidy penny. As did Oviedo. They have both had many nightmare games but Fergie firmly believes they have what it takes to eventually become regular members of the first team. Unlike DM, he gives them chance after chance in the hope that one day they will reach the required standard. The sky-high standard of Man Utd. Right now they still have some way to go.

Moyes destroys talent. Of that there is no doubt. Gifted youngsters come to our club and learn nothing. Instead of going forward, they go backwards. They are his responsibility but he refuses to bring in high class, highly skilled coaches to help raise their technical levels and teach them every aspect of the game. Eventually they deteriorate, move to a lesser club and try to pick up the pieces.

Phil Sammon. Nice one. Thanks. Like you I have gone off the man himself. The person he has become.

Paul Gladwell
51 Posted 27/01/2013 at 15:29:49
Mark, I actually never booed I just screamed "What the fuck are you doing you negative fucker?!?" — as did 90% of the crowd around me as we were shocking and most of us thought taking a forward off for a defender was shocking. I'm no Moyes boo boy, but I think he got away with it yesterday big time.
Wayne Smyth
52 Posted 27/01/2013 at 14:10:49
As with all things, there is no black & white. For every "Moyes is shit because...." there is a "Moyes is great because....". Personally I'm non-plussed if he stays or goes, but I'd only be happy to see him stay if he's prepared to work within his £60M budget.

Getting outplayed/outpassed by teams built for far less is frustrating, and the fault lies in large part with the manager. Moyes should not need more money to be able to beat Bolton, or play good football against them. I can accept the rationale with being out-fought by a lower league team, but to have them playing the technically better football is inexcusable.

As for the fans booing, exactly when and how are paying supporters meant to show their disapproval? Booing during a substitution is basically targeted at the manager. I think booing players during the game is completely self-defeating. The players don't pick themselves and the fans should always be behind them while they're on the pitch.

Al Reddish
53 Posted 27/01/2013 at 15:44:55
Just as Chelsea shouldn't need all their money to beat Brentford?
Ian Bennett
54 Posted 27/01/2013 at 15:44:14
Harold, Fergie has bought and bombed out loads — Obertan, Bellion, Gibson, Manucho, Bebe...
Nick Entwistle
55 Posted 27/01/2013 at 15:57:02
Want to give us a list Harold of this young talent destroyed?
Dean Adams
56 Posted 27/01/2013 at 15:54:16
I am sure that the Spurs fans will be glad to know that they played really well against Leeds this afternoon and were so good that the FA will let them progress in the cup as a result!! Oh no, that isn't going to happen, is it? I am sure that they would have swapped a crappy win for that great loss today.

Some people are never happy and no matter what they just whinge about everything that Moyes does or attempts. I know it is frustration but it sounds more like spoilt child syndrome.

Barry Rathbone
57 Posted 27/01/2013 at 16:00:16
George 029, great post - the whole thing in a nutshell.
Wayne Smyth
58 Posted 27/01/2013 at 16:04:18
Al, when was the last time a team like Chelsea got outpassed by a lower league side?

Usually teams like Chelsea get outfought or the opposition put 11 behind the ball, hold out for 85 minutes, then nick a goal from a set piece.

Moyes's teams have been guilty of not only losing to lower league opposition with alarming regularity (and it's acceptable but annoying to lose a cup game), but alarmingly they often out-play us too.

All the bollocks people spout about needing more money is just silly. You need more money to beat a Championship side???!?!

Anto Byrne
59 Posted 27/01/2013 at 15:43:28
Reading the threads over the last few months, it seems that more and more followers of this great club are becoming more and more disillusioned with the great man. We know we have a team that is capable of playing great football but somehow he has no clue how to beat the lesser lights. Reading, QPR, Stoke, Norwich, Soton, Swansea... and, even though we beat Bolton, we never really looked the better side.

There is a distinct lack of competition for places in every position and, even then when we have players so out of form, we have no Plan B. Moyes has become pretty stale, the team lacks something, perhaps a decent leader on the park other than someone running around pointing and shouting and playing aimless balls back to the keeper.

Maybe selling Baines and Fellaini and raising say £40mil would allow Moyes to do what he does best and bring in those hidden gems. I for one would understand completely if this was the only way forward. Wenger gets £24mil for RVP and brings in 3-4 players who are now starting to find their feet in the Prem... According to Big Sam, Arsenal were in another league the other night when they buried WHU.

Nick Entwistle
60 Posted 27/01/2013 at 16:11:46
That would be Bolton who were in the PL 20 odd games ago Wayne?
Roman Sidey
61 Posted 27/01/2013 at 16:01:15
Brian Harrison, sometimes fans just don't like their manager. Moyes has rubbed people the wrong way in the past, and that is hard to forget sometimes. For a similar situation, do a bit of reading about a bloke called Leigh Matthews in Aussie Rules. He brought us our first title at Collingwood in 32 years and the club couldn't wait to see the back of him. He then won Brisbane three titles in a row, and within a couple of seasons he was public enemy number one.

Patrick Murphy, to be fair, the supporters did not know that Fellaini was being pushed up top when the sub was happening.

Paul Ferry
62 Posted 27/01/2013 at 16:10:14
George McKane (29) wonderful post mate from a true blue. Perfect pitch from start to finish and the shifts in gear to — ah fuck, cunt sewer-rat has just scored 1 - 1 — your views on Moyes and the sub are spot on. Great support from you and all the 5,000 and the others in the other stands! Cheers and thanks.

I know that you didn't boo and I respect that. But to the folks who think we should not boo the blues, I have to say that that is bollocks. When does the average committed fan get a chance to express her/his opinion at our club? I hope that Moyes takes note but I doubt that he will.

Jim Knightley
63 Posted 27/01/2013 at 16:30:44
Wayne...did you see the Brentford Chelski first half today? Chelski deserved to be down at half time, they were second best.

And did you see the Leeds vs Spurs game? Leeds were the better team for chunks of the match.

Cup games are not like league matches...they inevitably mean more to the non-Prem team. In the last 24 hours, Norwich have lost at home to Luton, QPR have let in 4 at home to MK Dons, Chelski have drawn with a league 1 side, and Spurs have lost to Leeds. Without looking at other 'upsets', clearly playing lower division teams is not as easy as it appears on paper. But you know what... we had more shots, more possessions, more corners, and most importantly, more goals. I think your comment: 'Moyes should not need more money to be able to beat Bolton...' is a good one... and he didn't did he?

And yes there is a correlation between FA Cup success and money... check out the winners in the last decade, and where they finished in the league. If we swap a couple of players out of starting line-up... we get considerably worse... whereas Man Utd can swap RvP and Welbeck for Rooney and Hernandez. That's the difference. When we lose Mirallas (and some other players), we have options which essentially are worse than some Championship team... personally I'd take Chris Eagles over Gueye, or Lee over Hitz. The difference between us and them is less than has been represented on here... if it wasn't, we wouldn't get so many upsets.

Karl Masters
64 Posted 27/01/2013 at 16:34:29
Roman says:

Patrick Murphy, to be fair, the supporters did not know that Fellaini was being pushed up top when the sub was happening

That's right, how many fans really do KNOW what is going on in the Manager's head? So why not stop booing and wait and see what happens? Too many armchair/keyboard experts and fans at the game just waiting to throw some abuse at the drop of a hat.

Winning when not playing well has long been acknowledged as a sign of a good team. Someone said the game at Southampton was a debacle! You would have thought we lost 5-0, but actually took a point from a team in form, just like Arsenal did there 2 weeks ago and nobody called that a debacle!

Booing your own Team is pathetic.

Amit Vithlani
65 Posted 27/01/2013 at 17:10:54
Come on Oldham!
Amit Vithlani
66 Posted 27/01/2013 at 17:11:35
Personally, I don't get the booing your own manager for making a sub, especially away from home, but then again I haven't attended an away game since 1999 (did a fair bit of this during 20 years in the UK) and things have changed a heck of a lot – notably the ridiculous cost of attending matches.

I saw supporters boo in away matches at the end of games when the players simply hadn't tried and in the 90s there was a fair bit of this, even in Joe Royle's era. Wimbledon 0 - 4 at Selhurst had the large away following baying like demented bulls.

That said, Pip's tweet rings a bit hollow. Sounds like he is trying to laugh something off which could have caused a ruck. Players tweeting shite like this gets on my nerves and Pip comes across as a bit of a twittering tit.

Philip Quilliam
67 Posted 27/01/2013 at 17:15:17
Whether you believe in or doubt David Moyes, it is not his fault that we don't have a pot to piss in. I am pleased that he has built a squad out of the football equivalent of peanuts that has given us some excellent moments this season.

Unlike some contributors to this "fans" forum, I don't expect all our players to be all in-form all at the same time. I have a minimum baseline that, when they pull on the blue shirt, that they play with the desire and will to give all they have every game with all the skill that they have. There will be days when it's not happening, but if they are working their socks off to get through it and trying to make things happen then it will come right.

I consider that we are all in this together and if you have a constructive comment to make then fine but meaningless abuse is pathetic. You do all have a right to your own opinions, especially if you have paid good money, and I realise that you don't need my permission before the nit pickers that infest this site start up.

Kev Johnson
68 Posted 27/01/2013 at 17:34:59
Philip - do you mean "the nits that infest this site"? Surely the "nit-pickers" would be helping to remove the infestation.

Come on you Super Latics!

Aidy Dews
69 Posted 27/01/2013 at 17:30:33
I notice Pip didn't bellow at his team mates for a shit performance at Southampton Monday night!

Funny how he feels he needs to mouth off at the supporters for venting their frustration at a decision that seemed defensive, "Let's shut up shop and take the replay" type of substitution, cos I'd've thought that at the time, regardless of it turning out to be inspired!

It's about time our Captain had a word with himself about his own form and had the bollocks to give his team mates a bit of bollocking for playing shite like they have recently. Cos that's what we're lacking at the min IMO, individuals in the team that aren't afraid to get into teammates' ribs when they aren't pulling their weight and demand more from em!.

Alan Newton
70 Posted 27/01/2013 at 17:55:20
The traveling fans, who pay good money to SUPPORT the team have every right to voice their opinion at decisions they disapprove of. Despite the great job Moyes has done for us and the fact the large proportion of Evertonians (myself included) would not even contemplate wanting to replace him, he is - in my opinion - still largely negative. Neville should have more sense and keep his mouth shut about such issues.

Lets not kid ourselves, taking a striker off for a defender was a negative tactical decision designed to settle for a replay back at Goodison. There is no way Moyes was ever thinking that Heitinga was going to be the match winner. In the end, it proved an astute substitution but that was luck rather than judgment. Irrespective of what transpired, you can't hide the fact that the thinking behind the substitution was to ensure we didn't concede. That, for many traveling Evertonians was - in the moment - a poor decision. Thankfully, it ironically proved not to be.

Wayne Smyth
71 Posted 27/01/2013 at 17:55:56
Yes nick. The same Bolton that were in the premiership last season and the same bolton that are in 16th place in the league below us at the moment. Does Moyes need more money to be able to not be out-footballed by sides like that??

I accept that cup games against lower league opposition are one-offs and tricky. However only the most blinkered can fail to notice the parallels between our games against these sides and our games against struggling premiership sides, where we've been unable to win.

Moyes does indeed need cash to be able to fairly compete with the 6 or 7 teams that have more money than us. He shouldn't need it to compete with the rest.

Philip Quilliam
72 Posted 27/01/2013 at 18:20:20
Alan how do you know that the decision to bring on JH was negative? If the point was to push Fellaini forward who would you have brought on? It is a hypothetical point though because you have never had to manage a professional football team never mind one that has consistently performed in the top handful or so of clubs in the richest league in the world handicapped by having the equivalent of peanuts to spend.
Nick Entwistle
73 Posted 27/01/2013 at 18:31:36
Wayne, makes you wonder if we're being outplayed by lower league opposition how bad we must be against the best in the Prem... oh, wait...

I'll take the odd dodgy cup match when we're on the cusp of CL. So would Liverpool.

Patrick Murphy
74 Posted 27/01/2013 at 18:25:20
Karl and Roman, I can't see my post so I'm not sure why you're singling it out to argue your case, I did post somewhere that the lads who pay to go and watch the match are entitled to vent their frustration if they wish to, I never said that I condoned it.
James Marshall
75 Posted 27/01/2013 at 19:09:08
Why in an age when technology is King, should Phil Neville not be able to voice his opinion? I don't see any of you running around week in week out for the cause!

Yeah he's well paid, and yeah we pay to go see games, but who makes either of those choices? The very first response to this thread made me want to never log in here again - what a terrible attitude you have to your clubs Captain.

I thought that post was a real shame, and something of an embarrassment.

He may not be Evertonian by blood, or lifelong in any sense, but to suggest that he doesn't really care is utter nonsense. The guy works his arse off every week, albeit that most people don't see him as the most talented. Every team needs a Phil Neville - fact.

Patrick Murphy
76 Posted 27/01/2013 at 19:14:03
Yes Phil Neville is allowed to give his opinion and yes he does care and give his maximum.But as Club Captain he is the person that speaks for the team and I'm not sure all the players would have been happy for him to make gestures towards the fans.

The last person to publicly berate the paying followers of Everton was a certain Mr. Johnson and that didn't do him any good did it? It has been said that Mr Kenwright has also criticised the fans in the past and he is not Mr Popular either.

Everton as a club has always performed at its best when the board, the playing staff and the fans are all singing from the same hymn sheet. Phil has apologised and that's fair enough, but I hope he is not as quick to have a go at the fans the next time they show how they feel about a given situation.


Andy Walker
77 Posted 27/01/2013 at 19:36:25
Why can't fans be criticised ffs?
We have a role to play I the success of the team, just like the manager, the board, players, back room staff, etc.
All should be open to criticism.
James Marshall
78 Posted 27/01/2013 at 19:45:47
Oh so you prefer players to just be drones like all the rest of them do you?

Sod that, I like a player to be human, have a voice and dare to give a shit and if that means gesturing to fans then good on him. We the fans are not always right - in fact our opinions are largely so biased that they're often completely wrong.

Colin Glassar
79 Posted 27/01/2013 at 20:46:26
Neville when you find out what year we came into existence, what our motto means, what was Dixie Dean's record etc.......then you can start gobbing off at the people who pay your wages, you below average, useless pillock!
Philip Quilliam
80 Posted 27/01/2013 at 20:57:39
Colin what on earth possessed you to press the send button on this grubby rant? If your point is to direct your vitriol at Phil Neville then send him a letter addressed to Goodison Park I am sure it will find him. If you imagine he is reading this then you are deluded, however if you imagine that he gives a dead rat's arse what you think then you are deranged.
Lewis Barclay
81 Posted 27/01/2013 at 20:32:31
The very reason that Phil Neville is selected as captain is because he gets angry when anyone criticises the team, or the manager.

What was he supposed to do, have a quiet word in the gaffer's ear? I can just see it - "come on David, this is ridiculous, the fans can see it, give the free scoring Croatian a few more minutes and while we're at it, can we get Barkley back from Leeds?"

Neville's game is not up to what it should be but whilst he's captain I applaud his passion and the accompanying apology.

We'll all know a lot more about where the club is heading by the end of the transfer window, maybe then there'll be good reason to boo.

Si Cooper
83 Posted 28/01/2013 at 01:00:04
"Jason Heng/Si Cooper
http://www.soccerstats.com/timing.asp?league=england

Joint 8th for scoring in the last 15 minutes."

Thanks for that info Bobby, but I have had a look myself and we appear to be joint sixth with 3 other teams with 8 (7 conceded) in the last 15 minutes (also includes extra time minutes). For the last 10 minutes, which was Jason's figure, we slip down to joint tenth with 5 scored (5 conceded).

I guess joint sixth isn't bad, but it doesn't appear to be the tactical masterstroke that Jason was presenting, especially with the number conceded in the same period.

Personally, I have always given the manager credit for the players conditioning which allows them to keep going for the full 90+ minutes when other teams aren't always able to do so. Unfortunately this season I fear the small squad, ageing players, and the general failure to make more use of the three extra players available in each game, will cause us problems in the remainder of this season.

Martin Mason
84 Posted 28/01/2013 at 02:10:59
The fans fucked up this time. They have a right to be critical but we sometimes overuse it.
Si Cooper
85 Posted 28/01/2013 at 02:20:19
How can you overuse the right to be critical by booing, Martin?

Verbal abuse may stretch into the realms of excess, but simply booing is about the mildest way to show disapproval / disagreement that a fan at the match has at their disposal.

Martin Mason
86 Posted 28/01/2013 at 03:40:55
Si

I'm not sure, booing for me demonstrates the highest level of verbal abuse and it is easily picked up by the players as such hence Neville's anger. Would it not be better to accept the change and express disatisfaction if it didn't work?

Like I say though, the fans pay a lot of money to go and see the games and have a right to criticise. It's a sign of the times though that in all walks of life we feel now that we have the right to moan and we seem to take it to ever higher levels?

Len Higginson
89 Posted 28/01/2013 at 11:35:42
Can't stand the booboys. Heard them often enough. I was at the game. The only way we were going to lose, is if we made mistakes.

Felli made a howler in the second half, cause he is not a holding midfielder. Almost immediately DM put JH in that slot, and put Felli up front. Far from being a defensive move, it tighened up the middle of the park and put Felli in his recently found forward role. To a lady who was moaning behind me, I said the same thing at the time. The fact that JH eventually got the winner was just reward for DM's foresight.

As for Neville, DM picks him, so that's good enough for me.

Len Higginson
90 Posted 28/01/2013 at 22:24:53
J5's introduction was exactly what was needed. I was at the game, and Felli makes one too many mistakes to be the last man in front of the back 4.

One such Yobo moment in the second half, obviously inspired DM to put J5 right in the Carsley spot, and throw Felli up front where he is less of a danger to our defense. I didn't see it as a defensive let's-get-a-draw decision at all. The goal was just a bonus.

As for Pip, if DM picks him, that's fine by me. He's clearly no longer first choice anywhere, but what is the alternative?
Andrew Gilbert
91 Posted 29/01/2013 at 15:31:40
Anyone who thinks moving our top scorer up front to be negative is just a bit plain daft!
Richard Reeves
92 Posted 29/01/2013 at 16:36:57
I just wish he would shut up and fuck off. I've never liked him as captain as I have never liked him in the team and always thought he is a shit player who stops the development of the team. He is so lucky to play for a manager who believes he can do no wrong and to play for us.
Si Cooper
93 Posted 29/01/2013 at 17:04:33
Len - don't disagree with what you have written but I have one question. Did you know automatically that JH would go into midfield and Fellaini would be pushed into attack, or did you notice that once they had taken their new positions on the pitch?

Given the way JH and Phil Neville have been used recently, I would have thought it was at least an even bet that Pip would go into midfield and our defence would be shuffled to accommodate JH. The Neville / Osman combination hasn't looked particularly effective recently, even with Fellaini playing in the advanced role, and I think most people thought that the manager was reverting to his most trusted midfield pairing to see out the game, more than putting Fellaini forward to get the goal, and that is what they were booing.

Okay, they were wrong to see it as negative and should be big enough to admit it, but why wouldn't people be disappointed if they thought the manager was simply looking for our elder statesmen to lock out the game in the middle? To move Fellaini forward we were still sacrificing a striker, so it can be said to be only marginally positive because Fellaini is seen as more of a threat than Jelavic in his current form. We have still seen Jelavic convert the odd chance so it wasn't like he could not have got on the end of one in the last 10 minutes or so.

Andy Crooks
94 Posted 29/01/2013 at 17:41:38
Martin (#427), I have witnessed some vile abuse directed at players. Some of it confidence destroying and some of it actually life threatening. So, frankly. I find booing pretty mild.

If supporters cannot boo what they consider to be a poor managerial decision then we really should fill empty seats with mannequins. I respect Phil Neville but he comes across, in this instance as a precious, needy idiot.

Ian Allaker
95 Posted 29/01/2013 at 17:54:03
Andy, if I was the captain and I heard the crowd booing a good decision by the manager I think I would have reacted the same way. The crowd were being idiots and someone needed to tell them.

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