A Great Pity – from an Old 'Un

It is unfortunate that Liverpool Football Club have in recent years made themselves so unlikeable – the Suarez affairs and subsequent media faux pas have hardly endeared the club to many including some of their own fans.

I don't really care how other clubs decide to conduct themselves, my opinion is that Liverpool have acted poorly in recent times but it doesn't make me hate them. My only emotional attachment to football is my love for Everton, which will continue until the day I die.

Previously the history of the 2 clubs had been reasonably matched with us marginally better but knowing the next derby or trophy could mean a victory for red or blue made it self policing.

The shanks revolution meant their crowing didn't last a season it became year upon year turning into decades and every argument was lost.

Continuous banter from one side was never going to be comfortable whether red or blue.

Frankly by the time they won the European cup their disdain for all and sundry made them a wretched and insufferable tribe.

The harvest they reap today of being the most despised club in the country (and in europe if memory serves) is only what they have sown.

I must add my abiding memory of growing up in the 60s and 70s in Liverpool meant the twin questions of :

"red or blue?"

"catlick or proddy dog?"

were not a precursor to friendly joshing.

My own experience is friendly rivalry was the stuff of legend rather than reality although admittedly I did the alternate Goodison and Anfield games one season in the 70s and lived to tell the tale.

Not sure how much credit I should get for the Barkley piece – I really just knitted together in my own words the narratives from the journos like Andy Hunter who interviewed him, penned the original articles and provided the quotes.

In the 80s I worked in "The Smoke" (FFS what a dirty shithole it was), I had a job that I loved but found getting anywhere to live really difficult

I came home one "Derby Saturday" and got off the bus carrying my bag with my stuff in it, as I was outside "The Brick" a bunch of about 8-10 lads piled out and full of boisterous intent made there way towards God's Acre. Next, they split into 2 halves and walked simultaneously past a bloke with 2 little lads (one red bobble hat, one blue) and the lads all made some encouraging remark to their chosen kid..... Several yards on, the mob re-mingled and the banter recommenced. I never felt more homesick.

Ian I agree, I too will not call our pesky neighbours "shite". As a great old blue once explained to me:

"Listen son, I love Everton, with ALL my heart and soul. I love me Mam the same way. If someone loves their Mam the way I love mine then anyone can understand that. But what I won't forgive would be someone hating me Mam just 'cos she's not their Mam.

"I love Everton, I love me Mam. I hope that you love your Mam and your club the same."

They have made their bed and they have to lie in it... There are many in my extended family, Individually the one I have the most time for blue or red was going to watch them in the pre and early Shankly days...Yes they have sold ( some might say whored ) their Shankly red souls...so collectively but not individually they have morphed into the rs.

I wish it wasn't so but sad to say there are too many regular examples of...

rs, you always get exactly what it says on the tin

I lived on Shiel Rd and on derby days thousands of supporters would walk down the road to the match intermingling and shouting banter across the road.

I moved away in my teens and then overseas and their supporters there were strangers to me, not from my city and mostly knowing less than me about the history of their club.

It's then that I learned to dislike them, their arrogant attitude, their 'we are victims' whinging and their denial of anything being their fault. Although to be fair the ones that I know that are actually from Liverpool are like the supporters I grew up with and of course I still have mates back there that are supporters and have brought up their kids to support them the way I am bringing mine up to support Everton.

Their management have not helped their image any lately either with Benitez, Kenny and Brenda's comments and their players being cheating gobshites that expect to get away with it as a right like Gerrard and Suarez. That their supporters think that is acceptable makes them even more unlikeable.

And as Neil says above Sky are perpetuating an animosity between teams and have a 'do no wrong' attitude with with all their ex players being the pundits.

So because of this I cannot bear to utter their name and sully the name of the city I grew up in and love so they will continue to be the Red Shite as the song so aptly describes them.

As an aside a mate the other day pointed out to me an entry in the Urban Dictionary, 'The Shite' was defined as Liverpool FC so it's not just us Blues that recognise their failings.

BUT we all have mates, colleagues, families that are reds and people do sit next to each other in derbies.

If the article was about being sad because of a lack of respect or fondness to the Shite then I would agree but I wouldn't say I really hate them (ie like say, we hate dictators or paedos etc)

In those days, most men would be working on a Saturday morning, followed by a session in the pub & then off to the match. Occasionally I would do this myself on a Saturday in the early 70s. Most of the lads I drank with were reds & often I would tag along to Anfield on a Saturday, simply for something to do.

Unfortunately in those days, I would always witness a Liverpool win. The last time I did this however was for the derby, watching Garry Stanley & McDermott getting sent off during our 2-2 draw.

However, through the 70s and 80s, I moved around, living in Southampton for 3 years then joining the RN where Plymouth and Portsmouth were the obvious places to lay down my roots. It wasn’t till I left the Navy and started working offshore that I came across a huge amount of Norwegian crew members on the Norwegian vessels. Just by that statement, you now know exactly where I am going with this story….

Yep, EVERY bloody one of them supported the bloody dark side – I couldn’t get away from it. On one job however, one of the divers onboard, Bernie Quinn, was one of the few Evertonian’s I ever came across – well, at least he was a fellow Scouser, and NOT Norwegian! Unfortunately, the trip happened to coincide with THAT Coventry match, and he and I could not bear looking at each other or listening to that event on the radio without walking away from it now and again – Ha!

Over those years at sea on projects, I found that although I was so, so proud of being a Scouser, the first shite that always came out of their Norwegian mouths was “Ah, fellow Liverpool supporter”. There, I’ve said THAT word. Hated it, hated their sheer arrogance – along with the sublime ignorance of who they were – they act as if the football world owed them everything, same as the new-found wealth clubs today – and they have not changed since.

Since then and since moving to Houston here, that awfully embarrassing statement has been repeated far too many times by all kinds of supposedly “fellow” football fans – be they American, African or any other flippin’ country!

Now, when I introduce myself and think that they are football “supporters” – (allegedly) – I do tell them that although I am from the city, I do support the “first club in the city – Everton”. That raises a smile and also puts them in their place, as 99% of them are big 4 crap. Says it all nowadays.

So, sorry to piss on everyone’s parade – the “Red Shite” it is and the “Red Shite” it will continue to be. I think it’s a brilliant name for them – and so do all the other non-Everton Brits over here who I work with.

They are real supporters as they follow the like of Southampton, the Hull City and the Grimsby – I have so much time for those kind of supporters – and, boy, do they love calling the Red Shite “the Red Shite” when our daily discussions take place… and do you know that coming from them – well, it's funny and just seems natural to them too.

My first game was in 1958, love them Blue Boys.

I have never, and would never, resort to any form of violence over something as "shallow" as football. However, my "hate" is only for "THEM" and what "THEY" stand for - my brother-in-law is a RedShite and he calls us similar. We giggle about it, as others should do...

Hate only becomes dangerous when someone takes their hatred cause, along with themselves, too seriously!

And yes, there is too much hate in the world - that has been there since time began, it will only get worse...

....and he was in the navy. Oo'er.

My dad and family were/are Blues, only a couple of Red cousins and I can honestly say I have NEVER had the urge to see them – outwith a derby match – or to talk about them.

Maybe some of the dads and uncles of some posters went to see them every other week but certainly my dad or uncles never – thankfully – went!

It didn't used to be like that and the players used to go to the match on the same bus as the fans. Boys Pen Bill used to go to the match on his Uncle Cyril's bike, a program was 6d, I used to pay 4d on the 500 from speke etc etc – those days are sadly gone. 'They' are both symptom and cause and thus, again collectively not individually to blame.

Yes I, we are bitter, with good reason.

However, most of the Reds I know and work with have never been to Anfield - claiming that it's impossible to get a ticket because they are always sold out because they are the best club in the world and have the most fans and they've won it 5 times as well didn't you know.

Needless to say whenever we have a bad result and they have a good result they are the first to gloat and taunt. On the few occasions we have a result over them, it's a completely different story. A perfect example of this is to listen to Micky Quinn on Talkshite Radio on Saturday and Sunday mornings after a bad liverpool result, he soon resorts to being like a sulky child throwing his toys out the pram. Hilarious.

I treat them like they treat me. For the most part, that means that they are the RS. It's not hate, it's contempt.

I think this story shows that problems only started, when LFC's support became national and international.

However, I am pleased you have raised the issue again as I think it is important to stress that there is no need for blind bias (eg Gerrard won't pass to Barkley nonsense) or much of the hatred that passes for comment on TW.

We are no less Evertonians than any other, and yesterday was a perfec tin results terms, an Everton away win and a Liverpool home defeat, always moments to savour.

Long may the RM regime continue to prosper, onwards and upwards.

When you went to school in the late seventies, and early eighties, they were are the height of their powers. I could put up with most of them then, they all went to the game.

Fast forward to these 'Sky' supporting gobshites from the Home Counties, or Essex, and I find it difficult to keep my hands to myself when the subject of football is being discussed.

When you listen to national phone-in's on radio, you will get an idea what I'm talking about.

I know if there are any blues about from down South or anywhere in the world support our team because they are real fans, not because we won a few European trophies, or we were the 'hipster team' of the day.

Sorry, I hate the twats with a passion. They think they are entitled to success - even when they are shite. What's to like about that attitude?

This was 2 years after the friendly Merseyside final and my opinion for what it is worth is that THEY cannot and still cannot take getting beaten by us and of course the ban was a hard pill to swallow. There was always trouble in town after the match whatever the result: I would hear blues nattering about going to town to get the 'shite woolies' or the Isle of Man boat.

Now I know that there is no end of friendly rivalry and banter and just getting on: I always kicked off verbally in The Prince of Wales on Stanley Road where we always met up with our luvverrly red mates after the match and then we either went back to Crosby to carry on or taxis to town.

But there has also been an underbelly of trouble these last two decades or so – and perhaps before – doubtless sparked off by one bevy too many for the most part but still there nonetheless. I confess to hating LFC with every bone in my blue body - I do - but I would never lob a nail at one of them!

Fair enough statement BUT then he goes on to say:
"Other clubs with title aspirations like us should look at their own club's performances first"

It's things like that which make my blood boil - he actually doesn't think he's deluded to class Liverpool in the same category as other clubs with title aspirations

On another thread (piece by Mark with the Polish name - a Texan - just become a Toffee), I refer to 'them' as Red Shite; but further on in the comment, I insist that I don't hate them.

The point being that, unless we are playing them, they are irrelevant to me.

Yes, I used to revel in the pre-Shankley days when they seemed to be a permanent fixture in the old Second Division ("Eight years! Didn't take us that long to win the effing war!"). I remember St. John's debut in the 'final' of the Liverpool Senior Cup, we won 4-3 but ISJ scored a hat-trick; and I got a slightly queasy feeling.

They were due their moment in the sun; but if it hadn't been for the European ban, that came in the wake of Heysel, IMO we would have regained our supremacy on Merseyside, probably gone on to be European Champions and regained our "Merseyside Millionaires" nickname.

Still I can't hate them. Dislike them yes - look at Stevie Me and Ratboy - and calling them Red Shite is just a slightly childish pseudonym for me.

Have another gin - surprised you can still see the keyboard considering the amount you drink.

Having said that, you can't control who you love, and for some reason, since Moyes left for the prawn sandwich brigade, I find I hate Liverpool a lot less. I was outright happy when they beat them at Anfield a few weeks ago. Go figure.

Still celebrating a Blue win and a Red loss on the same Saturday!

I was at that 4-3 game!

Great point on Heysel Ken, how good was that '80's team and how much did we miss out! If Heysel hadn't happened, had Kendal stayed, who knows?

For me that was the defining moment.

Since they became a "global brand" the average glory hunting Liverpool supporter doesn't understand the family orientated localised football dynamic that allows myself and my 4 year old to be blues, my 11 year old old niece to be a Tranmere fan whilst her Dad / Garndad are Reds.

I remember my dad, for all his love of things blue, having a soft spot for Shankly and Paisley. I can recall watching Football Focus 35-40 years ago and my dad really enjoying an interview with Bob Paisley, and my dad expressing admiration for him.

When Liverpool first won the European cup and they were preparing for their parade around the city, my Dad put us in the car and we drove over from Manchester (where he was working and we were living at that time) to join the red side of the family lining Queen's Drive to applaud their achievement.

My first Derby game was the 2:2 FA Cup semi final at Maine Road and I will always remember how, throughout the game, the two fans behind me spent the entire game ripping the piss out of each other. Best mates they were, one blue, one red. I also recall a Derby game at Goodison in 1985, a time when I had a season ticket right behind the goal up in the balcony of the Street End. When Dalglish scored very early on, I was gobsmacked how many dozens of the people around me stood up to celebrate. I thought wtf, do these Reds have season tickets too, or have they borrowed tickets from friends and family?

Anyway, some of my friends and family are still Reds. I wish they weren't, but because of them I find it hard to hate Liverpool. I certainly despise the behaviour of some of their fans - like the ones who robbed fellow reds of their tickets/seats in Istanbul - but I dwell also on LFC's wonderful generosity toward Rhys Jones' family and Shankly's very generous praise of 'Dixie'. "Ladies and gentlemen, today we are joined by a man who ranks amongst the greatest there is: Shakespeare, Rembrandt and Bach. This man is Dixie Dean."

I only saw the parade around Walton Park, but stories started circulating that Emlyn Hughes and co had started singing "Liverpool are magic, Everton are tragic" – slightly ironic in hindsight – and a certain moustachioed England forward had urinated upon some Blues fans.

So from that time I have little regard for them as a club, I still have mates who are reds but we very rarely discuss football.

Some of my in laws, cousins and friends are afflicted with the red disease but genuine banter is the order of the day not insults.

I don't subscribe to the hatred of individual players Gerard and Suarez are 2 of the finest footballers in a generation imo and Dalglish was a footballing genius.

It is simply the contrived cliche ridden affectations of LFC that gets my goat, I swear the director shouts "action" when the cameras are at anfield and on cue the cameras swing to the kop and the karaoke begins.

The whole thing represents a passionless 60s/70s relic with scandanavian marketing managers checking their texts while warbling ynwa.

Just naff.

I suppose with their recent (towards us) success makes us inwardly envious, and encourages their supporters to crow somewhat, its only natural!

I do think rs as a club have acted pathetically and disgracefully in their handling of Suarez, I don't care how good a player he is, he should have been very heavily fined and sold abroad to the highest bidder pronto.

They have lost a great deal of respect for their non action, and have set a very weak precedent.

This isn't friendly rivalry, Their johnny come lately manager, comes out with an utterance of supreme arrogance. And you know what, not one in that bloody club, on the Board, any of their fans, contradicted the horrible jumped up gobshite.

You might guess from this that I hate the bloody servants of Mordor and I do. I shouldn't hate and have negative thoughts but that club, I now totally detest!

Liverpool fans I've not any real problem with, but the club...yes I hate it!

My Dad always said (quoting from the film the Outlaw Jose Wales) the greatness of a man is measured by the might of his enemies. So in a way I want Liverpool to be a great enemy. I don't want them in the 4th Division or out of business. I just want them to do less well than us - year after year after year.

Unfortunately LFC fans in the 90s started thinking we were no longer worthy rivals and SKY and all that talked up the Man U vs LFC rivalry (really???). Even more unfortunately it was true - although I can't accept it at an emotional level, it is true in terms of resources.

So now I hate Liverpool in a different way than before. I hate them because they don't really bother to hate us. I hate their smugness. I hate the way they handle Suarez. I hate their sense of entitlement. I hate the way they have hanger on supporters in Asia (where I live). (whereas any Asian blue is top bloke and indepedent minded).

Before I simply hated them because they were good - and better than us when I was growing up. But I was also slightly proud of them. But no longer.

I was the same as I never hated Liverpool as hate is a word I believe puts me in the same class as Stalin, Hitler and Poll Pot. Dislike them? Yes. Watch them on TV? No. Would I go and watch them if they played in a field behind our house? No. Am I happy when they loose? Yes, ecstatic.

I moved to Canada in 1976 and in my travels around Canada and the States because of my accent people ask me where am I from and when I say Liverpool and they say "Oh, you're a Liverpudlian?" I say, "No, I am an Evertonian." This allows me to educate them as they just get their education from Sky and we all know who their favourites are.

I too watched EFC throughout out the 60s and 70s, home and away, hardly ever missing a game. When Everton won the Cup in 1966, I was down in London watching the game. I had a brilliant weekend then got back into Liverpool 9am Sunday morning after leaving London at 4am. I stayed all day waiting for the team to return with the Cup. It was an excellent night until about 9pm.

At St Georges Plateau there were a few hundred Blues still singing and dancing I was one of them. Then about 30 Reds arrived holding a large wooden barrier that was painted red & white above their heads. They sang their shit songs and soon trouble broke out with fists, bottles and anything else flying in all directions.

Why did they come out? Well they wanted to disrupt our celebrations because we had upstaged them.

I hated them from that night on.

Then as we all know, when they won the European Cup, we had a drunken Emlyn Hughes singing "Liverpool are Magic, Everton are Tragic". This was despicable for two reasons: first of all, the night and result had nothing to do with us. Secondly, it was an Everton song that they changed into a Liverpool song.

Then, when Hysel happened (it did happen), we got banned from Europe by Maggie Thatcher not UEFA. The Shite never pleaded for us to be reinstated. They never asked for Norwich to be allowed in, as they too suffered. They said nothing.

Their hatred/jealousy of Man United shows them in their true light. Human excrement thrown at away fans. An ambulance with an injured Man United player was attacked and nearly turned over.

I could type until my fingers hurt about their horrible fans but most Evertonians know why we call them the SHITE.