I was compelled to write this article because of the excellent piece by Lyndon Lloyd: Grounded Barkely just loves play for Everton.

Even before writing, I know this is going to get a panning because of the subject matter but reading the comments on the aforementioned article about the support from Steven Gerrard for Ross Barkley and his advice to remain at the one club, caused a few of our dear TW posters to comment on the Reds vs Blues and the relationship between the two clubs. Of course, such a thread runs through many, if not most, of the comments on articles written but it was this one which finally caused me to make a very personal comment.

I cannot bring myself to refer to them as ’Red Shite’ (or RS) for a number of reasons but it doesn’t make me less of a Blue, as Everton Football Club is deep within my DNA.

When I was small, I would go to watch the Blues one Saturday then the Reds the next Saturday because my mates were a mixture of blue and red and we all travelled to Goodison or Anfield together. I too recall Liddell; A’Court their goalkeeper Bert Slater, and well I remember the first game Jimmy Gabriel played against them, scoring a scorching header in a 3-1 loss at Anfield if I recall. It was the Liverpool Senior Cup or some such competition, which was really an excuse to play them in those days because they were a division below us.

As I grew older, I would frequent the Liverpool nightclubs at the time, The Beechcomber, the Manhattan on so on (I think those were the correct names) and such players as Tommy Smith; Emlyn Hughes would mix with Jimmy Husband (who used to park his yellow E-type outside the club), Alan Ball and so on and any member of the club who cared to speak with them, blue or red.

The point I am trying to make is it was rivalry but it was not hatred — even though the best feeling in the world (and it still is) is a Blue victory on the same Saturday as a Red loss. They were called the Reds and with every fibre in my body I would want them to lose. I was devastated when they won promotion to, what was in those days, Football League Division 1. I loathed it when they won the FA Cup in 1965 because, up to that point, they had never won it — but it never occurred to me to call them ’Red Shite’.

Going for a drink with my mates, the arguments were of rivalry, mickey-taking, arguing who was better — Alex Young or Ian St. John (the Golden Vision, of course!) but it never descended into pure out-and-out hatred, which I often read in comments posted on this site.

One of the abiding memories of the early Sky years was the coverage one evening of Blues vs Reds. I was working in the south but a friend invited me to dinner and to watch the game on television. At the opening of the programme, an hour before kick-off, the camera showed an empty stadium but panned in on two boys, approximately 12 years of age, sitting next to each other reading from the one EFC programme. One was in the Blue Everton kit and one was dressed in the Red Liverpool kit. I recall the feeling of pride being a Scouser and my host being shocked by the sight of the two opposing boys sitting next to each other.

Then there was Hillsborough, there are 96 good reasons not to call the Reds ’Red Shite’ and another moment of sheer pride being a Scouser was the spattering of blue scarves spread across that sea of red over the Kop after that truly tragic event.

Yes, they are the team we want to beat; the team we want to see get relegated so we can laugh our heads off... but, to my dying day, I would never sink so low as to hate to them to the degree I have to refer to them as ’Red Shite’. They play their football in my City, where I was born and bred; I could never hate them, no matter how much I wish they played in the Championship!

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Mike Allison
1 Posted 21/09/2013 at 23:31:46
I try so hard not to hate them, I really do. But they make it so difficult.
Danny Broderick
2 Posted 21/09/2013 at 23:52:06
I agree with a lot of what you say. I hate them when we play them for 90 minutes, but not the rest of the time. I enjoy the banter - but I am embarrassed when it goes further than that. I hate it when we sing the same songs as Man U - I'm all for banter and rivalry. Out and out hatred? Life's too short.
Neil Adams
3 Posted 21/09/2013 at 23:55:07
Everton aren't perfect - Liverpool is not the Antichrist. The days mentioned above are unfortunately long-forgotten for most fans, who are given to tribal divisions egged on by the Sky executives whose media empire only thrives because of the hatred rather than friendly rivalries that exist between the Premier League clubs.

It is unfortunate that Liverpool Football Club have in recent years made themselves so unlikeable – the Suarez affairs and subsequent media faux pas have hardly endeared the club to many including some of their own fans.

I don't really care how other clubs decide to conduct themselves, my opinion is that Liverpool have acted poorly in recent times but it doesn't make me hate them. My only emotional attachment to football is my love for Everton, which will continue until the day I die.

John Haldane
4 Posted 21/09/2013 at 23:58:55
I agree with you, Ian. Maybe it's our age and the fact that we saw very successful Everton teams, whereas the younger ones — you know, the 40-year olds! — haven't had that much to cheer about and feel an extra edge of antipathy. Pity really.
Barry Rathbone
6 Posted 21/09/2013 at 23:45:25
Ian, born in 1958 in Kirkdale my first Goodison game was as a 2 yr old but I recall their mercurial rise under Shanks more than our feats.

Previously the history of the 2 clubs had been reasonably matched with us marginally better but knowing the next derby or trophy could mean a victory for red or blue made it self policing.

The shanks revolution meant their crowing didn't last a season it became year upon year turning into decades and every argument was lost.

Continuous banter from one side was never going to be comfortable whether red or blue.

Frankly by the time they won the European cup their disdain for all and sundry made them a wretched and insufferable tribe.

The harvest they reap today of being the most despised club in the country (and in europe if memory serves) is only what they have sown.

I must add my abiding memory of growing up in the 60s and 70s in Liverpool meant the twin questions of :

"red or blue?"

"catlick or proddy dog?"

were not a precursor to friendly joshing.

My own experience is friendly rivalry was the stuff of legend rather than reality although admittedly I did the alternate Goodison and Anfield games one season in the 70s and lived to tell the tale.

Lyndon Lloyd
7 Posted 22/09/2013 at 01:12:20
Nice piece, Ian.

Not sure how much credit I should get for the Barkley piece – I really just knitted together in my own words the narratives from the journos like Andy Hunter who interviewed him, penned the original articles and provided the quotes.

Andy Lambert
8 Posted 22/09/2013 at 01:41:45
I'm with you, Ian. My grandad was a Liverpool fan but had season tickets for both teams. He said he enjoyed watching Everton as, unlike with his own team, he didn't care about the result and could just enjoy the match. He also took me to my first Everton game, so, without his broad-mindedness, who knows where I'd be now!
Tony Draper
9 Posted 22/09/2013 at 01:40:16
Good work, Ian.

In the 80s I worked in "The Smoke" (FFS what a dirty shithole it was), I had a job that I loved but found getting anywhere to live really difficult

I came home one "Derby Saturday" and got off the bus carrying my bag with my stuff in it, as I was outside "The Brick" a bunch of about 8-10 lads piled out and full of boisterous intent made there way towards God's Acre. Next, they split into 2 halves and walked simultaneously past a bloke with 2 little lads (one red bobble hat, one blue) and the lads all made some encouraging remark to their chosen kid..... Several yards on, the mob re-mingled and the banter recommenced. I never felt more homesick.

Ian I agree, I too will not call our pesky neighbours "shite". As a great old blue once explained to me:

"Listen son, I love Everton, with ALL my heart and soul. I love me Mam the same way. If someone loves their Mam the way I love mine then anyone can understand that. But what I won't forgive would be someone hating me Mam just 'cos she's not their Mam.

"I love Everton, I love me Mam. I hope that you love your Mam and your club the same."

Derek Thomas
10 Posted 22/09/2013 at 04:00:56
Ian, I am from much the same era as you and can relate to all you say and more besides, but as Mike right at the top states, they make it so difficult to like them...and the thing is it's not just us, you can't find many from clubs all round the Country who have a good word to say for them.

They have made their bed and they have to lie in it... There are many in my extended family, Individually the one I have the most time for blue or red was going to watch them in the pre and early Shankly days...Yes they have sold ( some might say whored ) their Shankly red souls...so collectively but not individually they have morphed into the rs.

I wish it wasn't so but sad to say there are too many regular examples of...

rs, you always get exactly what it says on the tin

Eric Myles
11 Posted 22/09/2013 at 03:24:12
Sounds like we're of the same generation Ian, although you look a lot older than me! I too remember Husband's Jag and Bally's Anglia and the 60s and 70s 'friendly rivalry'.

I lived on Shiel Rd and on derby days thousands of supporters would walk down the road to the match intermingling and shouting banter across the road.

I moved away in my teens and then overseas and their supporters there were strangers to me, not from my city and mostly knowing less than me about the history of their club.

It's then that I learned to dislike them, their arrogant attitude, their 'we are victims' whinging and their denial of anything being their fault. Although to be fair the ones that I know that are actually from Liverpool are like the supporters I grew up with and of course I still have mates back there that are supporters and have brought up their kids to support them the way I am bringing mine up to support Everton.

Their management have not helped their image any lately either with Benitez, Kenny and Brenda's comments and their players being cheating gobshites that expect to get away with it as a right like Gerrard and Suarez. That their supporters think that is acceptable makes them even more unlikeable.

And as Neil says above Sky are perpetuating an animosity between teams and have a 'do no wrong' attitude with with all their ex players being the pundits.

So because of this I cannot bear to utter their name and sully the name of the city I grew up in and love so they will continue to be the Red Shite as the song so aptly describes them.

As an aside a mate the other day pointed out to me an entry in the Urban Dictionary, 'The Shite' was defined as Liverpool FC so it's not just us Blues that recognise their failings.

Peter Warren
12 Posted 22/09/2013 at 06:40:19
Not sure there is real hatred and just because I refer to then as the Shite doesnt justify the argument. Yes I hate them even winning just one game and they've signed some despicable lowest of the low human beings such as Diouf and Suarez.

BUT we all have mates, colleagues, families that are reds and people do sit next to each other in derbies.

If the article was about being sad because of a lack of respect or fondness to the Shite then I would agree but I wouldn't say I really hate them (ie like say, we hate dictators or paedos etc)

Neil Quinn
13 Posted 22/09/2013 at 09:32:42
My dad (would have been in his 80s now) & father in law, both used to watch Everton one week & Liverpool the next. Quite common in the 50s apparently.

In those days, most men would be working on a Saturday morning, followed by a session in the pub & then off to the match. Occasionally I would do this myself on a Saturday in the early 70s. Most of the lads I drank with were reds & often I would tag along to Anfield on a Saturday, simply for something to do.

Unfortunately in those days, I would always witness a Liverpool win. The last time I did this however was for the derby, watching Garry Stanley & McDermott getting sent off during our 2-2 draw.

Gerry Quinn
14 Posted 22/09/2013 at 11:00:21
I’m now in my early sixties, brought up in Crosby (district of Liverpool for those uninitiated!) and watched all of Everton’s home games plus many away from the late 50s through to the late 60s. Never once did I aspire to calling THAT team anything other than “THEM” or “THEY” – my father had drummed that one into me at birth!

However, through the 70s and 80s, I moved around, living in Southampton for 3 years then joining the RN where Plymouth and Portsmouth were the obvious places to lay down my roots. It wasn’t till I left the Navy and started working offshore that I came across a huge amount of Norwegian crew members on the Norwegian vessels. Just by that statement, you now know exactly where I am going with this story….

Yep, EVERY bloody one of them supported the bloody dark side – I couldn’t get away from it. On one job however, one of the divers onboard, Bernie Quinn, was one of the few Evertonian’s I ever came across – well, at least he was a fellow Scouser, and NOT Norwegian! Unfortunately, the trip happened to coincide with THAT Coventry match, and he and I could not bear looking at each other or listening to that event on the radio without walking away from it now and again – Ha!

Over those years at sea on projects, I found that although I was so, so proud of being a Scouser, the first shite that always came out of their Norwegian mouths was “Ah, fellow Liverpool supporter”. There, I’ve said THAT word. Hated it, hated their sheer arrogance – along with the sublime ignorance of who they were – they act as if the football world owed them everything, same as the new-found wealth clubs today – and they have not changed since.

Since then and since moving to Houston here, that awfully embarrassing statement has been repeated far too many times by all kinds of supposedly “fellow” football fans – be they American, African or any other flippin’ country!

Now, when I introduce myself and think that they are football “supporters” – (allegedly) – I do tell them that although I am from the city, I do support the “first club in the city – Everton”. That raises a smile and also puts them in their place, as 99% of them are big 4 crap. Says it all nowadays.

So, sorry to piss on everyone’s parade – the “Red Shite” it is and the “Red Shite” it will continue to be. I think it’s a brilliant name for them – and so do all the other non-Everton Brits over here who I work with.

They are real supporters as they follow the like of Southampton, the Hull City and the Grimsby – I have so much time for those kind of supporters – and, boy, do they love calling the Red Shite “the Red Shite” when our daily discussions take place… and do you know that coming from them – well, it's funny and just seems natural to them too.

Dave Owen
15 Posted 22/09/2013 at 11:28:05
You can make as many excuses as you want, but there is too much hate in the World.
Reg Gates
16 Posted 22/09/2013 at 09:19:11
Agree with you, Ian, all the way. My dad was a Red, how could I hate him?? Think of the reception the family of Rhys got at Anfield and them playing Z-Cars for that family... got a lump in my throat writing this. Everyday above ground is a holiday — don't waste it on hate..

My first game was in 1958, love them Blue Boys.

Brent Stephens
17 Posted 22/09/2013 at 11:39:34
Comments above about reap what you sow - i.e. they crowed about their successes in and after the shanks era. I guess that was as much about the changing nature of brit society as anything and that had we developed in the same way at the same time, "we"'d have been crowing. It's now a "me" society; look at me; in yer face; people who cant are losers and to be ridiculed etc (cf Britain's Got Talent and the ridicule on there - so they tell me!).
Gerry Quinn
18 Posted 22/09/2013 at 11:42:04
Dave, "hate" can come in many shapes and forms.

I have never, and would never, resort to any form of violence over something as "shallow" as football. However, my "hate" is only for "THEM" and what "THEY" stand for - my brother-in-law is a RedShite and he calls us similar. We giggle about it, as others should do...

Hate only becomes dangerous when someone takes their hatred cause, along with themselves, too seriously!

And yes, there is too much hate in the world - that has been there since time began, it will only get worse...

Gerry Quinn
19 Posted 22/09/2013 at 11:51:00
I'm beginning to sound like a bloody Preacher - sorry, couldn't help myself there!
Neil Quinn
20 Posted 22/09/2013 at 12:08:22
My dad was Gerry Quinn.

....and he was in the navy. Oo'er.

John Keating
21 Posted 22/09/2013 at 12:11:53
Gerry, I'm a bit like yourself. When I went to sea, I sailed with many Scousers but I must say the majority were Blues. By-and-large, from the late 70s onwards, most if not all of the "foreigners" onboard were all Red!!

My dad and family were/are Blues, only a couple of Red cousins and I can honestly say I have NEVER had the urge to see them – outwith a derby match – or to talk about them.

Maybe some of the dads and uncles of some posters went to see them every other week but certainly my dad or uncles never – thankfully – went!

Gerry Quinn
22 Posted 22/09/2013 at 12:17:15
If he was anything like me then, Neil, I am sure he was a really nice guy then :)
Brian Denton
23 Posted 22/09/2013 at 12:21:17
Almost everyone I've worked with (in Liverpool) who actually was a match-attender supported us.
Derek Thomas
24 Posted 22/09/2013 at 12:35:45
Ian, although your sentiments do you credit – and we all, in some form, relate and sympathise with them – you have your head in the sand reality-wise... say it ain't so, Joe, but sadly it is. They are the lowest common denominator, in all senses of the word.

It didn't used to be like that and the players used to go to the match on the same bus as the fans. Boys Pen Bill used to go to the match on his Uncle Cyril's bike, a program was 6d, I used to pay 4d on the 500 from speke etc etc – those days are sadly gone. 'They' are both symptom and cause and thus, again collectively not individually to blame.

Yes I, we are bitter, with good reason.

Gary Mortimer
25 Posted 22/09/2013 at 12:48:41
I have no issue with Liverpool supporters who go to the match and put the money where their mouth is.

However, most of the Reds I know and work with have never been to Anfield - claiming that it's impossible to get a ticket because they are always sold out because they are the best club in the world and have the most fans and they've won it 5 times as well didn't you know.

Needless to say whenever we have a bad result and they have a good result they are the first to gloat and taunt. On the few occasions we have a result over them, it's a completely different story. A perfect example of this is to listen to Micky Quinn on Talkshite Radio on Saturday and Sunday mornings after a bad liverpool result, he soon resorts to being like a sulky child throwing his toys out the pram. Hilarious.

I treat them like they treat me. For the most part, that means that they are the RS. It's not hate, it's contempt.

Nicholas Ryan
26 Posted 22/09/2013 at 13:25:00
Can I tell you a (true) story. I was working in London at the time of the Liverpool v Bruges European Cup Final at Wembley. I went there with a few Koppite mates, on the basis that I would watch the game in the nearest pub. Just before kick-off, a guy came up to me and said: 'My brother hasn't turned up, do you want a ticket?' I said 'I need to tell you I'm an Evertonian. He said: 'That's OK, I'd rather give it to a Blue Scouser than a Cockey Red'!! And give it, he did, refusing to take any money.

I think this story shows that problems only started, when LFC's support became national and international.

Brian Denton
27 Posted 22/09/2013 at 14:01:35
Interesting tale, Nicholas. In the seventies I would regularly go on the Kop for Derbies as it was often difficult to get an Anny Rd ticket. There were always lots of blues on the Kop, and for the most part it was friendly banter. I shudder to think what it would be like today.
Tony Sullivan
28 Posted 22/09/2013 at 14:08:05
Well said Ian, my experiences are similar to your own and I cannot bring myself to call them Red Shite or RS. I made similar comments on the Barkley thread about bias and hatred.

However, I am pleased you have raised the issue again as I think it is important to stress that there is no need for blind bias (eg Gerrard won't pass to Barkley nonsense) or much of the hatred that passes for comment on TW.

We are no less Evertonians than any other, and yesterday was a perfec tin results terms, an Everton away win and a Liverpool home defeat, always moments to savour.

Long may the RM regime continue to prosper, onwards and upwards.

Kevin Tully
29 Posted 22/09/2013 at 13:49:56
All my mates were redshite when I was younger, except three of our mob.

When you went to school in the late seventies, and early eighties, they were are the height of their powers. I could put up with most of them then, they all went to the game.

Fast forward to these 'Sky' supporting gobshites from the Home Counties, or Essex, and I find it difficult to keep my hands to myself when the subject of football is being discussed.

When you listen to national phone-in's on radio, you will get an idea what I'm talking about.

I know if there are any blues about from down South or anywhere in the world support our team because they are real fans, not because we won a few European trophies, or we were the 'hipster team' of the day.

Sorry, I hate the twats with a passion. They think they are entitled to success - even when they are shite. What's to like about that attitude?

Paul Ferry
30 Posted 22/09/2013 at 15:41:06
Never mind today Brian (#237) – I was in the Kop for the '86 2-0 win and to be honest there was a lot of trouble that day as although there were blues sprinkled all through the Kop there was a largish section on the left-hand-side and there were lads kicking off and all kinds of shite being thrown – I got hit by a nail!

This was 2 years after the friendly Merseyside final and my opinion for what it is worth is that THEY cannot and still cannot take getting beaten by us and of course the ban was a hard pill to swallow. There was always trouble in town after the match whatever the result: I would hear blues nattering about going to town to get the 'shite woolies' or the Isle of Man boat.

Now I know that there is no end of friendly rivalry and banter and just getting on: I always kicked off verbally in The Prince of Wales on Stanley Road where we always met up with our luvverrly red mates after the match and then we either went back to Crosby to carry on or taxis to town.

But there has also been an underbelly of trouble these last two decades or so – and perhaps before – doubtless sparked off by one bevy too many for the most part but still there nonetheless. I confess to hating LFC with every bone in my blue body - I do - but I would never lob a nail at one of them!

Peter Warren
31 Posted 22/09/2013 at 16:44:01
Saw a guy I know, lfc supporter who never goes the game and he posted on Facebook yesterday:
"Liverpool supporters never got deluded with the great start we had and there will be many days like this ahead. That said Swansea a hard place to go and Southampton will upset a few this year"

Fair enough statement BUT then he goes on to say:
"Other clubs with title aspirations like us should look at their own club's performances first"

It's things like that which make my blood boil - he actually doesn't think he's deluded to class Liverpool in the same category as other clubs with title aspirations

Ken Crowther
32 Posted 22/09/2013 at 16:35:37
Ian, how's the gin today?

On another thread (piece by Mark with the Polish name - a Texan - just become a Toffee), I refer to 'them' as Red Shite; but further on in the comment, I insist that I don't hate them.

The point being that, unless we are playing them, they are irrelevant to me.

Yes, I used to revel in the pre-Shankley days when they seemed to be a permanent fixture in the old Second Division ("Eight years! Didn't take us that long to win the effing war!"). I remember St. John's debut in the 'final' of the Liverpool Senior Cup, we won 4-3 but ISJ scored a hat-trick; and I got a slightly queasy feeling.

They were due their moment in the sun; but if it hadn't been for the European ban, that came in the wake of Heysel, IMO we would have regained our supremacy on Merseyside, probably gone on to be European Champions and regained our "Merseyside Millionaires" nickname.

Still I can't hate them. Dislike them yes - look at Stevie Me and Ratboy - and calling them Red Shite is just a slightly childish pseudonym for me.

Have another gin - surprised you can still see the keyboard considering the amount you drink.

Roman Sidey
33 Posted 22/09/2013 at 14:42:49
As a supporter of Collingwood Football Club in the Aussie Rules, I find it's safe to say that Liverpool supporters thrive on the compiled hatred they receive throughout the country and continent. Back home, everyone hates Collingwood, regardless of what team or code you follow. It's that hatred that makes us all the more passionate and tight-knit.

Having said that, you can't control who you love, and for some reason, since Moyes left for the prawn sandwich brigade, I find I hate Liverpool a lot less. I was outright happy when they beat them at Anfield a few weeks ago. Go figure.

Ian Burns
34 Posted 22/09/2013 at 17:55:06
Hi Ken, still got some of me gin left!

Still celebrating a Blue win and a Red loss on the same Saturday!

I was at that 4-3 game!

Great point on Heysel Ken, how good was that '80's team and how much did we miss out! If Heysel hadn't happened, had Kendal stayed, who knows?

Andrew Sutcliffe
35 Posted 22/09/2013 at 18:28:24
I'm 40 now and "Red Shite" they are but firmly with tongue in cheek. My family are predominantly Liverpool (grandad would've signed for them but for family issues) and there's only myself and my uncle who are blues.

The majority of my friends are Liverpool fans too and we banter frequently, but it was only recently that I stopped looking out for them in terms of results. I used to support Liverpool in an ambivalent way until Senor beneathus called us a small club.

For me that was the defining moment.

Since they became a "global brand" the average glory hunting Liverpool supporter doesn't understand the family orientated localised football dynamic that allows myself and my 4 year old to be blues, my 11 year old old niece to be a Tranmere fan whilst her Dad / Garndad are Reds.

Chris Jones [Burton]
36 Posted 22/09/2013 at 18:52:25
My Dad's dad was a Red, and one week they'd go to Anfield, the next they'd go to Goodison. One of my uncles was a Red and so it's hard for me to hate them all, just for being red.

I remember my dad, for all his love of things blue, having a soft spot for Shankly and Paisley. I can recall watching Football Focus 35-40 years ago and my dad really enjoying an interview with Bob Paisley, and my dad expressing admiration for him.

When Liverpool first won the European cup and they were preparing for their parade around the city, my Dad put us in the car and we drove over from Manchester (where he was working and we were living at that time) to join the red side of the family lining Queen's Drive to applaud their achievement.

My first Derby game was the 2:2 FA Cup semi final at Maine Road and I will always remember how, throughout the game, the two fans behind me spent the entire game ripping the piss out of each other. Best mates they were, one blue, one red. I also recall a Derby game at Goodison in 1985, a time when I had a season ticket right behind the goal up in the balcony of the Street End. When Dalglish scored very early on, I was gobsmacked how many dozens of the people around me stood up to celebrate. I thought wtf, do these Reds have season tickets too, or have they borrowed tickets from friends and family?

Anyway, some of my friends and family are still Reds. I wish they weren't, but because of them I find it hard to hate Liverpool. I certainly despise the behaviour of some of their fans - like the ones who robbed fellow reds of their tickets/seats in Istanbul - but I dwell also on LFC's wonderful generosity toward Rhys Jones' family and Shankly's very generous praise of 'Dixie'. "Ladies and gentlemen, today we are joined by a man who ranks amongst the greatest there is: Shakespeare, Rembrandt and Bach. This man is Dixie Dean."

Patrick Murphy
37 Posted 22/09/2013 at 19:34:28
Chris like you I too watched the other lot come home with big ears as my best mate was a red. We used to go to away games together watching blues or reds depending on fixtures and usually midweek ones. But it was around that time that I realised that LFC and its supporters had little or no time for Everton FC or what it stood for.

I only saw the parade around Walton Park, but stories started circulating that Emlyn Hughes and co had started singing "Liverpool are magic, Everton are tragic" – slightly ironic in hindsight – and a certain moustachioed England forward had urinated upon some Blues fans.

So from that time I have little regard for them as a club, I still have mates who are reds but we very rarely discuss football.

Gavin McGarvey
38 Posted 22/09/2013 at 19:31:58
both of my brothers are reds, and one of my best friends so like others can't hate them. me and my younger brother used to go and see each other's team, as I did a couple of times with one of my red mates at university. tried to be happy for them when they came back to beat juventus, failed. good article ian.
Barry Rathbone
39 Posted 22/09/2013 at 19:56:27
I might add that my dislike of all things LFC is as an entity not individually.

Some of my in laws, cousins and friends are afflicted with the red disease but genuine banter is the order of the day not insults.

I don't subscribe to the hatred of individual players Gerard and Suarez are 2 of the finest footballers in a generation imo and Dalglish was a footballing genius.

It is simply the contrived cliche ridden affectations of LFC that gets my goat, I swear the director shouts "action" when the cameras are at anfield and on cue the cameras swing to the kop and the karaoke begins.

The whole thing represents a passionless 60s/70s relic with scandanavian marketing managers checking their texts while warbling ynwa.

Just naff.

Andy Crooks
40 Posted 22/09/2013 at 22:17:56
I just dislike the Liverpool supporters that I don't like and like the one's that I do.
Raymond Fox
41 Posted 22/09/2013 at 22:22:39
I don't hate their supporters, just dislike some for their moronic behaviour.

I suppose with their recent (towards us) success makes us inwardly envious, and encourages their supporters to crow somewhat, its only natural!

I do think rs as a club have acted pathetically and disgracefully in their handling of Suarez, I don't care how good a player he is, he should have been very heavily fined and sold abroad to the highest bidder pronto.

They have lost a great deal of respect for their non action, and have set a very weak precedent.

Jim Lloyd
42 Posted 22/09/2013 at 22:51:04
I'm about the same age and I like your post.I think though, that it represents a time that is passed. Long ago, we have been consigned to also rans by the Luvvies on the telly and I don't blame Liverpool for that. What turned me to hate all that bloody club stands for is the growing arrogance that came from the likes of Emlyn Hughes'Liverpool are Magic Everton are tragic" rendition and carried on growing until the club actually believes it is somehow marked by the gods as "special" and then the club itself, from the words of two managers, including this current one, make statements that the L'pool Man U ios the real derby for them now. The gobshite then had the temerity to say that LFC was representing the City of Liverpool in this "Derby",

This isn't friendly rivalry, Their johnny come lately manager, comes out with an utterance of supreme arrogance. And you know what, not one in that bloody club, on the Board, any of their fans, contradicted the horrible jumped up gobshite.

You might guess from this that I hate the bloody servants of Mordor and I do. I shouldn't hate and have negative thoughts but that club, I now totally detest!

Liverpool fans I've not any real problem with, but the club...yes I hate it!

David Cornmell
43 Posted 23/09/2013 at 00:21:24
Yeah, sorry Ian, you're in the minority I reckon.
My mum and all her side are reds; my dad and his lot are all blues. Splitting things right down the middle, my younger brother is a red. {I got the brains and the looks}
Whilst I don't hate or dislike my cousins, mum or aunts and uncles, I despise LFC intensely. The first club to attract the glory hunting foreign element, the plastic fans. The airbrushing of Heysel out of their history whilst the maudlin remembrance of Hillsborough will go on forever. Their almost caricature like use of "YKWA". Their deluded belief that they somehow are - despite twenty four years of futility - in the title mix every year. And their almost biblical like ability to fuck us over. Euro ban? CL winners receiving a dispensation? That semi? {Okay the last one is on Moyes}
No, sorry Ian, I judge people and organisations on their behaviours and make my judgement accordingly. And thats why they are the Red Shite.
David Ellis
44 Posted 23/09/2013 at 04:42:12
Nice piece. My first live match was at Anfield in 1973 (a goal-less derby). I went back in the mid eighties complete with Everton scarf to watch Liverpool vs Bayern. Another goal-less draw. Only got one comment of "There's an Evertonian sitting there - my mate could have had his ticket" - but not at all threatening.

My Dad always said (quoting from the film the Outlaw Jose Wales) the greatness of a man is measured by the might of his enemies. So in a way I want Liverpool to be a great enemy. I don't want them in the 4th Division or out of business. I just want them to do less well than us - year after year after year.

Unfortunately LFC fans in the 90s started thinking we were no longer worthy rivals and SKY and all that talked up the Man U vs LFC rivalry (really???). Even more unfortunately it was true - although I can't accept it at an emotional level, it is true in terms of resources.

So now I hate Liverpool in a different way than before. I hate them because they don't really bother to hate us. I hate their smugness. I hate the way they handle Suarez. I hate their sense of entitlement. I hate the way they have hanger on supporters in Asia (where I live). (whereas any Asian blue is top bloke and indepedent minded).

Before I simply hated them because they were good - and better than us when I was growing up. But I was also slightly proud of them. But no longer.

Jason Davenport
45 Posted 23/09/2013 at 08:54:29
Yes I remember the days of friendly rivalry, but that has all changed now. I will never forgive them for Heysel and what damage that has done to our club. I live in Thailand now and am always educating the locals on history.
Bill Gall
46 Posted 23/09/2013 at 20:42:45
Ian, I was the same: one week at Anfield and next at Goodison, even though by then I had become a fully fledged Evertonian from playing as a schoolboy at Goodison in the early 50s. At our house in Norris Green, both my sister and brother supported Liverpool so as they say I was born to be a proud blue.

I was the same as I never hated Liverpool as hate is a word I believe puts me in the same class as Stalin, Hitler and Poll Pot. Dislike them? Yes. Watch them on TV? No. Would I go and watch them if they played in a field behind our house? No. Am I happy when they loose? Yes, ecstatic.

I moved to Canada in 1976 and in my travels around Canada and the States because of my accent people ask me where am I from and when I say Liverpool and they say "Oh, you're a Liverpudlian?" I say, "No, I am an Evertonian." This allows me to educate them as they just get their education from Sky and we all know who their favourites are.

Joe Bibb
47 Posted 24/09/2013 at 11:08:16
I will tell you why I hate them and why I call them the Shite.

I too watched EFC throughout out the 60s and 70s, home and away, hardly ever missing a game. When Everton won the Cup in 1966, I was down in London watching the game. I had a brilliant weekend then got back into Liverpool 9am Sunday morning after leaving London at 4am. I stayed all day waiting for the team to return with the Cup. It was an excellent night until about 9pm.

At St Georges Plateau there were a few hundred Blues still singing and dancing I was one of them. Then about 30 Reds arrived holding a large wooden barrier that was painted red & white above their heads. They sang their shit songs and soon trouble broke out with fists, bottles and anything else flying in all directions.

Why did they come out? Well they wanted to disrupt our celebrations because we had upstaged them.

I hated them from that night on.

Then as we all know, when they won the European Cup, we had a drunken Emlyn Hughes singing "Liverpool are Magic, Everton are Tragic". This was despicable for two reasons: first of all, the night and result had nothing to do with us. Secondly, it was an Everton song that they changed into a Liverpool song.

Then, when Hysel happened (it did happen), we got banned from Europe by Maggie Thatcher not UEFA. The Shite never pleaded for us to be reinstated. They never asked for Norwich to be allowed in, as they too suffered. They said nothing.

Their hatred/jealousy of Man United shows them in their true light. Human excrement thrown at away fans. An ambulance with an injured Man United player was attacked and nearly turned over.

I could type until my fingers hurt about their horrible fans but most Evertonians know why we call them the SHITE.

Andy Kay
48 Posted 24/09/2013 at 13:52:11
Can't stand them: never have, never will. Phil Thompson, Emlyn, Jimmy Shithouse Case, Tommy Smith, to the Spice boys and then Stevie G la and Suarez – Gobshites the lot of them. After Heysel... never let them forget it!

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