Lampard: 'I want Zouma at Chelsea'

Friday, 19 July, 2019 140comments  |  Jump to last

Frank Lampard has signalled his desire to keep Kurt Zouma at Stamford Bridge this season as Everton try to sign the defender on a full-time basis.

Installed as Maurizio Sarri's replacement as manager at Chelsea earlier this month, Lampard has been running the rule over the squad he inherited against the backdrop of the London club's transfer ban.

That has included Zouma, one of five central defenders alongside David Luiz, Antonio Rüdiger, Andreas Christensen and Fikayo Tomori who could potentially vie for starting roles in Chelsea's team now that Ethan Ampadu looks to be lined up for another loan move.

"I want him here, simple as that," Lampard said of Zouma, who spent last season on loan at Goodison Park. "He is a fine player and a good man who will benefit our squad.

"He had a very good season at Everton. I understand why they want him but he's a Chelsea player. If he competes well this season, he plays."

Zouma had reportedly indicated a desire to return to Everton prior to Lampard's appointment and may yet decide that he has no guarantee of a starting role at Chelsea, particularly after Rüdiger recovers from knee surgery.

There is also the matter of Chelsea's need to sell at least of their foreign players to statisy Uefa rules for participation in the Champions League.  


Reader Comments (140)

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Dan Kemp
1 Posted 19/07/2019 at 16:50:32
Bugger.
Joe McMahon
2 Posted 19/07/2019 at 16:51:41
Well, deep down we all knew he wouldn't be coming back. I suppose for many of us, including me, our priority has to be a striker who can score in the Premier League.
Pat Kelly
3 Posted 19/07/2019 at 16:51:42
Maybe a bargaining position
Jim Bennings
4 Posted 19/07/2019 at 16:53:30
That's pretty much the end of that then!

Now time to move on and we have less than 3 weeks to sew something up as yet again our defensive options look bare.

Keane was outstanding next to Zouma last season. Mina is injured too often and whilst that may change, my recent memories are of him missing more than he plays, hard to see him starting ten on the spin whilst in honesty Mina and Keane doesn't look as good as Zouma and Keane either it must be said.

Holgate and Keane would be far too fragile and lacking pace big time. Hopefully Brands seen this coming with Zouma and we can quickly look for an alternative option.

Jerome Shields
5 Posted 19/07/2019 at 16:54:29
Not surprised. It was a long shot with a new manager anyway.
Jim Bennings
6 Posted 19/07/2019 at 16:59:15
Worst thing to happen for us was Sarri knocking off.

Once Lampard got in, it was a clean slate and Frankie probably watched the form of Zouma for us last season and wondered why the hell Chelsea ignore him when they've hardly got Maldini in defence.

Chris Gould
7 Posted 19/07/2019 at 17:14:03
It's going to depend on Zouma. He's back in the French team and will need to be a regular starter to keep his place. Lampard won't guarantee that, but we will.

It's not over yet.

Jim Bennings
8 Posted 19/07/2019 at 17:24:38
Chris,

The key thing perhaps is we haven't yet tested the water with an opening offer.

I can't somehow see Chelsea making Zouma priceless so, if he has a price, we need to find out what it is and maybe go close to it.

Of course it could secretly be now that Zouma has accepted he's staying there and will knuckle down and try to break into the side.

Darren Hind
9 Posted 19/07/2019 at 17:38:54
Not in the least bit arsed.

I will be having a sizeable bet that Everton without the stopper will get more points than we did with him. I will also be taking advantage of the generous odds the bookies will be giving for us to finish above Frank Lampard's Chelsea.

Let him go. Farewell.

Mike Allison
10 Posted 19/07/2019 at 17:55:09
At least that’s clear, now sign someone else.
Jack Convery
11 Posted 19/07/2019 at 18:00:21
Bluster from Lamps to show he's in charge and push the price up. Fingers crossed I'm right and it still happens. Keane is much better with him alongside.
Vijay Nair
12 Posted 19/07/2019 at 18:02:52
If Zouma stays at Chelsea, I reckon it'll be a decision he will regret. As soon as Rudiger is fit and back, Kurt will back to the bench. Hope he's happy to lose his place in the French squad.

I would have loved the continuity in defence by having him back with us, but hey, let's draw a line and move on to other targets. Running out of time now to get the key positions sorted.

Gordon White
13 Posted 19/07/2019 at 18:03:30
Did anyone really think they were just going to say "Yeah, you can have him"?

Regardless of their ban, they do have to get rid of a few foreign players, as has been said. There is a lot of competition for that place. And do they really want to retain a player who wants out?

I think it depends on how much Zouma wants to come back. That may depend on what guarantees Lampard can give him, in respect of playing time.

Jeff Armstrong
14 Posted 19/07/2019 at 18:04:32
Darren, I know nothing about betting but is that a bet that can actually be made? How would anyone calculate the number of points we would have gained with a player we did not have? To then make you right or wrong and then payout?
Drew O'Neall
15 Posted 19/07/2019 at 18:04:42
This is fat Frank's reaction to the player wanting to leave.

Zouma wants football and he probably won't get it at Chelsea.

Cue an overt move for another centre-back by Marcel Brands to draw Zouma out and force Chelsea's hand.

Jim Bennings
16 Posted 19/07/2019 at 18:04:52
So, Darren, who this mystery fantastic defender that's coming in to be ten times the player that Zouma was for us?

A guy that's going to win us all these points and keep that clean sheets record going at Goodison?

Chris Gould
17 Posted 19/07/2019 at 18:06:59
Darren, we may finish above Chelsea without him, but then again that doesn't mean we wouldn't have finished even higher with him.

He's better than you give him credit for, and he'd come in knowing what's expected of him from the off. No teething issues or problems settling in.

Brent Stephens
18 Posted 19/07/2019 at 18:08:31
At least we've got Holgate!
Darren Hind
19 Posted 19/07/2019 at 18:25:12
It's simple, Jeff

All you have to do is get odds on Everton accumulating 55 points or more. We accumulated 54 points with Zouma at centre-back. If the incredibly shrewd judges who would have you believe it is disastrous that he won't be here next season are to be proved right, we will surely suffer and get less points.

I say we will get more without him. I'll leave the ifs, buts and maybes to those who don't understand a simple bet.

If any of those incredibly shrewd judges feel they want to back their claims up with a bet that we will get less points without Mr Muscle, they are perfectly at liberty to get down to the bookies and lump on. They won't, of course. They'll just moan about it on here.

Jim Bennings
20 Posted 19/07/2019 at 18:29:13
Next, Darren will be telling us, if we sell Lucas Digne, it's no big loss as he's a poor man's Gary Naysmith... lol!
Kunal Desai
21 Posted 19/07/2019 at 18:31:29
I can't imagine Brands and Silva to be that daft to not have had alternatives in place had both Zouma and Gomes not be signed on permanent deals.

I would like this club to be prepared for the season ahead with a strong squad to go into the season, as opposed to be ill-prepared like we have done for many seasons, shortage of players in certain positions and players playing in makeshift positions. That nonsense has got to stop.

The next three weeks are defining in many respects and an indication of which direction the club is positioning themselves to go into.

Chris Gould
22 Posted 19/07/2019 at 18:38:29
Darren, it's a meaningless bet. We will undoubtedly bring in new players and it will therefore not be possible to assess if an improvement has anything to do with the loss of Zouma, or the signing of new players.

Not to mention the many other immeasurable variables. It will also be impossible to prove that we wouldn't have done even better with him in the team.
Your logic is too simplistic and, with respect, so is your opinion of Zouma's abilities.

Darren Hind
23 Posted 19/07/2019 at 18:39:31
Jim Bennings

You really do seem hell-bent on making a fool of yourself.

It's not six months ago that you were coming on here telling us that Everton (complete with Mr Muscle) would not win another game this season. You then exposed your judgement further by coming on week after week claiming we would lose. We kept winning . . . I don't think it would be possible to be wronger.

Now, having been wrong for every single one of those games, you've decided Zouma is a world-beater and you know best.

Funny... genuinely funny.

Chris

Meaningless bet? You do understand the concept of gambling? If you like a bet and you think something will happen, you take a punt... nobody else is obliged to do oppose or agree. I am confident we will secure more points without Zouma, because he was one of our weakest links for long periods of last season, so I`ll put money on it. That's all.

Peter Warren
24 Posted 19/07/2019 at 18:51:07
Whilst I believe I understand your points, Darren, and he is no technical football player, I think many fans (me included) see him as a really good defender, ie, Vidic type (although not as good).

I think he is more than just a big grock, as you imply...

Although, like you, I don't rate him as high as some and don't think it's end of world if we miss out. Even looking at Chelsea alone, I actually think Chelsea's Rudiger and Luiz are much better than Zouma.

Jim Bennings
25 Posted 19/07/2019 at 18:55:26
I don’t need to make a fool of myself, you’ve successfully cornered that market on here with insanely absurd posts.

I notice you don’t bring out a name when I ask who this fantastic mystery new centre half will be that is going to win us more points than Zouma?

David Pearl
26 Posted 19/07/2019 at 18:55:40
We will secure more points than last year if we score more goals and/or we hit the ground running.

If Zouma wants to come to Everton, he should make it clear. Otherwise, he might be sitting on the bench a lot. It's time to give a chance to Mina and Holgate.

Tony Everan
27 Posted 19/07/2019 at 18:58:32
They can't sign players so they want to keep the ones they have got.

He would look ridiculous if he sold Zouma and was exposed defensively through an injury.

We've just been unlucky with this one because of their ban, but I am sure Mr Brands was expecting this outcome and will have contingencies.

Geoff Lambert
28 Posted 19/07/2019 at 19:00:03
Zouma is not coming on a permanent deal this window – only another loan. He is not fit enough to take a £30 million gamble on. His knee problem is still showing up and he would not pass a medical.
Rob Halligan
29 Posted 19/07/2019 at 19:04:52
Frank Lampard says he wants Zouma to stay at Chelsea, not he WILL be staying at Chelsea.

Clutching at straws, maybe... but, until it's confirmed Zouma will definitely be staying at Chelsea, then there's hope we could sign him.

Chris Gould
30 Posted 19/07/2019 at 19:10:02
Darren, that's fair enough, mate.

If he doesn't come, then I certainly hope you win your bet.

Darren Hind
31 Posted 19/07/2019 at 19:17:36
Peter Warren

Fair enough. You think Zouma is a good defender. There have been times when I would agree with you.

I want a different approach. I think we will be getting more points without Zouma than we did with him. That's my opinion... I won't miss him.

Like all bets, there are two sides to it: if people think we will be worse off, they can place their own bets. That's their prerogative.

I'm more than comfortable that you don't agree with me, that's what the site is about. It's the half-witted post dragging players like Gary Naysmith into the debate with a feeble-minded "lol" which make my toes curl...

Andy Crooks
32 Posted 19/07/2019 at 19:53:11
Darren, I share your admiration for Holgate. Who would you partner him with? For me, Mina, with 30 games under his belt.

It seems to me, though, that Mina is going to need time and patience. As will Mason, and I 'm sure you dread as much as me the abuse that will be associated with his learning curve.

I believe that Mason would be best learning alongside Zouma, who is, I believe, more technically accomplished than you give him credit for. We know that is not happening, so who starts?

The insanity of the fee quoted for the carthorse Maguire makes me think that Keane, Holgate and Mina are okay. We just need to be patient.

Jim Knightley
33 Posted 19/07/2019 at 19:57:30
I've started looking at ToffeeWeb again after a break, and it's great to see you still spouting the same rubbish Darren.

Are you trying to troll, or you really think that Zouma's worth will entirely be determined by whether we get more points or not? As if everything else will be exactly the same as last season except for Zouma...do you literally have any idea...how anything works? That you think there are only two scenarios is baffling.

Zouma was our best CB last season. He isn't incredible - he has weaknesses, and we can find a better ball player and with enough money maybe we will find a better player. But I'd much rather have him in our team than not, because at present we will be weaker without him. I agree with Darren's claim that we can finish above Chelsea this year - I think with Zouma/another top CB, and a top striker, we could push Arsenal, United, and Chelsea if our players stay fit. But Zouma staying at Chelsea makes finding that CB harder. He was a key component of the backline which kept so many clean sheets at the tail end of last season.

The three teams above us are in transition and the conditions are there for our best season in years. But we need a CB and we need a striker and the clock is ticking.

John Hammond
34 Posted 19/07/2019 at 20:10:33
What I don't understand is why we haven't made a bid for Zouma. If it was the other way round Chelsea would've put a bid in ages ago to get the player unsettled. There's obviously a lot of stuff going on behind the scenes so wonder if this means we'll move on and go for someone else?
Mike Allison
35 Posted 19/07/2019 at 20:21:27
Geoff, 28, that seems like ‘itk’ info and I’ve certainly not heard it before. How do you know?

John, 34, I don’t think it really works like that, it certainly shouldn’t. These clubs are in contact all the time and know each other inside out. Most of the stories like this one are just journalists making stories out of an answer the manager gives to a fairly innocuous question. I’m fairly sure that anything meaningful takes place behind the scenes.

Derek Knox
36 Posted 19/07/2019 at 20:33:06
The way I see this, it's basically down to Zouma, if he asks for guarantees of first team involvement, which if they are honest can't give him, and he asks to leave, contracts as we know are not worth a lot these days, apart from when it comes down to the buying Club. That is to say the longer left affects the price.

I have almost resigned myself to him not being here next season, surely for the sort of money they are talking, or would be if Zouma were to be sold, we could possibly get a better player?

John Hammond
37 Posted 19/07/2019 at 20:35:41
Darren, we got 54 points in total but Zouma didn't play every game so that bet proves nothing.

Even if you totalled the points from the games he featured in and compared the points collected from the corresponding games this season without him (relegated teams from last season can't be included obviously) there are still so many variables in football that it's impossible (and crazy) to say that Zouma was the difference.

Perhaps in an alternate Universe where we've signed Zouma you could compare those points totals with the points for the upcoming season in this Universe. Although we've just signed Neymar in the alternate Universe so that might be an unfair comparison.

Brian Williams
38 Posted 19/07/2019 at 20:45:36
Zouma's knee injury was over two years ago and he's since played as good as two full seasons, one with Stoke and one with us.
Tony Twist
39 Posted 19/07/2019 at 20:46:12
Time to move on. Played well but not worth delaying until the eleventh hour in the hope of Chelsea changing their minds. Holgate has not shown any improvement from being on loan at West Brom, so a central defender is a must, after a centre forward.
Darren Hind
40 Posted 19/07/2019 at 20:51:02
Jim Knightley

I thought you'd disappeared because all my claims about rank bad management were proved to be spot on and all that self proclaimed positive stuff you spouted turned out to be naive wishful thinking
So it was a break you were taking ???

I laugh when you tell me I'm talking rubbish then spend most of your post agreeing with me about Zouma's weakness's and Evertons chances of finishing above Chelsea - Typical confused Knightley.

Now let me explain the bit that is getting you bent all out of shape. I'll do it slowly in the hope that you can grasp it.

I don't mention Zoumas worth. I cant calculate Zouma's worth. . I don't give a flying fuck about Zouma's worth.
I care about Everton and Zouma does not play for Everton. . . Getting it so far ?

Everton finished with 54 points with Zouma. I say they will finish with more without him and if we do . .Not signing him will clearly not have been the disaster the "shrewd" boys have made it out to be. Is that simple point really so hard for you to understand ?

I'm not interested in your daft arsed distractions, your if's, but's and maybe's. I don't care that you have come on hurling insults - as long as you don't start bleating when you get a litttle back.

Get to the point; If you (or anybody else) thinks we will accumulate LESS points this season without Zouma. then have the courage of you convictions and be brave enough to say so.

I've nailed my colors. I've put myself up to be shot at. I have shown the courage of my convictions. I did it in a succinct short post - still up there. post 9. . . Do you think you could (without going all around the houses) do the same ???

I'm sick of hearing faux outrage from people who dare not express an opinion themselves.

Put your judgement on the line. Tell me I'm wrong. Have the bollocks to say we will get less points without Zouma.
Rather than scream the house down without actually refuting the sole point of my post. Why not register an opinion of your own.if you can find the courage, great. we`ll see who is right come the end of the season, if you cant, what are you moaning about ?

Peter Mills
41 Posted 19/07/2019 at 22:44:05
Darren. Do you mean “fewer” points?
Brent Stephens
42 Posted 20/07/2019 at 00:17:40
So the points we gain or lose are just down to Zouma? What a load of bollocks. It’s much more complicated than that.
Graeme Beresford
43 Posted 20/07/2019 at 00:17:46
I see this as a positive. Mina was brought in as the permanent signing and Zouma as the loan. Just so happens Mina obtained injury’s and when he was brought back he looked slow and uncomfortable. He has now had rehabilitation and so games with Columbia over the summer. I am hoping he will come back and form a partnership with Keane at the back.

I do see Zouma now staying at Chelsea but I imagine he will sit on the bench and come January we can have another go at signing him either on loan again or permanently. Let’s not forget that Mina is our player, he’s young and he hasn’t yet shown us what he can do.

Best of luck Kurt, something tells me you’re going to need it at Chelsea.

David Pearl
44 Posted 20/07/2019 at 00:20:10
Someone should have had fewer pints. Ahem
Denis Richardson
45 Posted 20/07/2019 at 00:25:14
Not all over yet. He may still ask for a move as unlikely he’ll be first choice.
James Stewart
46 Posted 20/07/2019 at 00:28:28
No striker in, no Zouma incoming, and Gana off to PSG, and some on here still blathering on about finishing above Chelsea. The mind boggles! I suppose it will be Calvert-Lewin's clinical finishing and the defensive rock that is Mason Holgate racking up all these points for us?
Tommy Carter
47 Posted 20/07/2019 at 00:29:24
Good Luck to him. And good luck to Lampard. Seriously I wish neither of them anything negative. Kurt Zouma gave his all for our club as far as I could tell. I thank him for that.

But I don’t think he is as brilliant as people make out. Against Arsenal away last season he was atrocious.

Zouma is another Distin for me. And I will probably upset a few evertonians here, because Distin was extremely popular for some reason. They are very similar.

Big sliding robust challenges and headers get the crowd going. But just like Distin, Zouma did this (very well) oft n as a result of his own poor positional play or reading of the game.

When you have a physical specimen like Kurt Zouma or Sylvain Distin then it is difficult not to be impressed when they swat the average footballer like a fly.

My point is they are often seen doing this because it’s last chance saloon.

We won’t miss Zouma. Not for a second. Yerry Mina is our main man. He joined us, permanently and is ours. A colossus. We just need to find someone to play alongside him

Bob Hannigan
48 Posted 20/07/2019 at 00:35:23
If that is the case, it will be interesting to see how Lampard uses him and how Zouma processes his experience this upcoming season vs his last season at Everton.
Hopefully a deal can be worked out and Kurt can sign on with us for 2019-20.
Jim Knightley
49 Posted 20/07/2019 at 04:11:01
Darren – you are making an argument based on absolute fiction. When was I naively positive?! This is baffling. I was among the first on here – in the preseason before Martinez’s second season, to suggest failure was on the horizon (see: https://www.ToffeeWeb.com/season/14-15/comment/fan/28267.html). Ever since Martinez left I’ve argued for Eddie Howe as the best replacement. I had optimism about Silva and still do, although I was not confident he could sort out our defensive issues and lost faith in that aspect during the winter (I hope he has proved me wrong on that and will continue to do so). You spout pure rubbish – I don’t know if you are genuinely mistaken or just the sort of person who builds arguments on lies.

I’ll try to make this simple for you because you clearly need it. It’s possible for me to think that we are BOTH worse off without Zouma AND can challenge Chelsea in the league. I can critique the absurdity of you claiming that our points total will determine Zouma’s worth (As others have) and agree with something else you say (i.e that we could challenge Chelsea this season). Try googling 'binary thinking' and 'nuance'.

I’ll be very clear for you. I think we will exceed our points total for last season but I think an Everton side without Zouma will score less points than one with him. I think we underachieved last season but we are beginning this season familiar with Silva’s tactics and with key players bedded into the side. Chelsea will be worse than last season. Not because of Zouma – Zouma has nothing to do with it. But because Chelsea have lost the player that makes them tick (Hazard) – They will score less goals and when they fail to perform the crowd will turn and players heads will drop, as they have tended to do. Giroud is older, Pedro is older, Willian has been out of form for months and showed no signs of improvement during the Copa. Rudiger is out, neither of their left backs is good enough, and they’ve got very little central midfield cover with Loftus out. Lampard is a dead man walking – Chelsea won’t finish in the top 4 and he will pay the price.

So to be very simple for you:
Chelsea minus Hazard and with issues in key areas = worse.
Chelsea = overachieved in the league last season.
Everton = underachieved.
Everton without Zouma = more points than last season.
Everton with Zouma = more points than last season and more than an Everton side without him.

Zouma was our best CB last season. He isn’t flawless by any means, and you may argue that Keane was better. But we need his qualities – Mina is still unproven and switches off way too much (as he did at Barca). Holgate isn’t good enough. Last time I checked there wasn’t a pool of very good Premier League centre backs we could pick from, especially if suggestions of our spending being constrained by FFP rules are correct.

Darren Hind
50 Posted 20/07/2019 at 06:47:12
Jim Knightley,

This is all too much for you, lad. You are running away with the stupid idea that I'm putting up some sort of argument. Read post 9; if that post isn't simple enough for you, I'm sorry. I can't dumb it down any further...

My statement is as basic as it gets. I said to those weepers and wailers who think we are doomed because he ain't coming, we will get more points without Zouma. Get it? simple enough?

That`s not sleight of hand, there are no hidden ifs, buts or maybes. It's a quantifiable statement which can be weighed, measured, proven or unproven. The proof will be irrefutable. If we get 55 points, the statement will prove to be correct; if we get 53, it will prove to be incorrect.

I find it truly hilarious that, when challenged, you feel forced to admit that you agree that you too think we will get more points next time around. It's not so much that you agree that I find hilarious. I knew the penny would eventually drop, just as it will with others who are having difficulty processing my very simple transparent statement. It's the fact that you go on and do the very thing you accuse me of.

Jim Knightley – "I think we will exceed our points total for last season, but I think an Everton side with Zouma will score less points than one with him."

See a difference here, Jim? I have the courage to make a statement which can be proven wrong. You chose to hide behind hypothetical bollocks in the certain knowledge that you can never be proven wrong.

Jim Knightley – "Yeahbutnobutyeahbut... I deal in what is, not what might have been. Yeah, I too think we will accumulate more points next season... but we'd have accumulated even more IF Zouma stayed."

Sigh...

Lee Courtliff
51 Posted 20/07/2019 at 08:21:02
Darren, your argument is based on so many variables that it won't be proven true even if we accumulate more than 55 points.

So, we don't have Zouma but amass 60 points by May. Is that because Kurt left or because we didn't stop playing for nearly 3 months during winter time?

We end up with 56 points, is that because we're better without Kurt or because Pickford DIDN'T drop a clanger in the very last minute of the Anfield derby?

We total 70 odd points, is that because we're a superior team without Zouma or because Calvert-Lewin finally managed to finish the chances his and our approach play deserved?

I'm not the bigger fan of Zouma but we played our best offensive and defensive football with him IN the team! And he weighed in with a couple of goals too.

Tony Everan
52 Posted 20/07/2019 at 09:16:16
Whatever happens, we will need quality back up for Mina.

It is odds on Yerry won't get to Christmas injury-free and we need to be well prepared for that or our season will suffer.

Kevin Prytherch
53 Posted 20/07/2019 at 09:35:01
I’ll go against the grain here and say that Zouma was not our best defender last season - Keane was.

Zouma was our best defender for the last 3 months, but often looked a liability in his first few months.

Also, why is it so hard for people to agree on here??

Darren says that we will get more points without Zouma, Jim blatantly agrees. Jim says that, despite probably getting more points without Zouma, we would get more with him - perfectly valid argument but dismissed by Darren. How hard is it, once you’ve started a debate, to simply agree with someone else?

Michael Ward
54 Posted 20/07/2019 at 09:45:13
I think Keane was better last year and Zouma will/would cost over the odds. On top of that, we have a £28M player who just got in the team of the tournament at the Copa America that we need to give a chance. Fair enough, we have lost someone who was first choice last year but we need to factor in the injuries Mina had and the fact that as much as we hate to admit it resources are not unlimited.

My main worry in defence is Keane and Mina might be too similar and both might share the same weakness (speed) but that is our managers problem he knew what he had before he signed Mina so he has to deal with it. In all honesty, I am more concerned with us getting rid of the deadwood and replacing Gueye if we sell him. I think we have the basis for a very strong team already. I also fancy that we will get the left-footed right winger Silva wants (Malcom loan to buy is my guess) and that will give the team a lot more balance and allow us to play the way Silva ideally would like with 3 wingers cutting inside and fullbacks overlapping.

I think in the transfer market now we need to follow the model of last year make 2 or 3 big signings and plug the rest with loans (with the option to buy ideally).

Jim Knightley
55 Posted 20/07/2019 at 12:16:21
Thanks, Kevin. Your paragraph sums it up perfectly:

"Darren says that we will get more points without Zouma, Jim blatantly agrees. Jim says that, despite probably getting more points without Zouma, we would get more with him – perfectly valid argument but dismissed by Darren. How hard is it, once you've started a debate, to simply agree with someone else?"

Try reading that again really slowly, Darren; it's not hard to grasp, is it?

And I am putting my neck out, as I did with my Martinez post and have on various occasions. I think we will get more points than last season – you understand that surely?

Here is another one for you and I want to get your answer on this one: If we sold Pickford tomorrow and played Lössl in goal for the season, I still think we would get more points than last season (Gueye staying is more important imo). Here is a 3 answer selection for you:

1) If we were to get more points with Lossi in goal, would that mean that Lössl was better than Pickford?
2) If we got less, would that mean Lössl was worse than Pickford?
3) Would the whole scenario be irrelevant because reducing 38 games to the worth of a single player in an 11-man team (plus subs) vs another 11 men (plus subs) each week be the epitome of stupidity? (And obviously Pickford is better than Lössl.)

Looking at these posts – your fictional claim about me (ignored this time) and your constant desire to reduce everything to a Yes or No answer which is utterly non-nonsensical – so non-nonsensical that most primary school children could see the logical flaws in it – I can only conclude that you are trolling. And it's not the kind of thing that should be happening in these forums.

Honestly, you're embarrassing. The vast majority on here can have a debate – it can be heated and have opposing sides, but this isn't that. This is you arguing about something that makes no sense and ignoring all the people telling you it's the case.

Brent Stephens
56 Posted 20/07/2019 at 12:36:03
Jim #55 "3) Would the whole scenario be irrelevant because reducing 38 games to the worth of a single player in a 11 man team (plus subs) vs another 11 men (plus subs) each week be the epitome of stupidity?"

And that's the clincher.

For what it's worth, I felt Zouma got stronger and more confident as the season developed and became almost the man of every match towards the end. I wish we could retain him but the signs don't look good. I also think Keane got stronger as the season developed (the injury behind him, Zouma alongside him) but he'll need somebody alongside him better than what we currently have if we can't have Zouma.

David Thomas
57 Posted 20/07/2019 at 12:36:40
Jim, he is trying to wind everyone up so just ignore him.
Tommy Carter
58 Posted 20/07/2019 at 12:53:11
Yerry Mina, this is his season. A colossus. A giant of a man and a giant character too. He has required time to bed in, but his transition to us has almost been one from Brazilian football to the Premier League. His time in Barcelona doesn't count for much because of how little he played. This transition is famously difficult.

He and Lucas Digne are leaders. I can sense one of them being our captain very soon. We are evolving, slowly, as a club. We are veering from traditions familiar to the club and that feels a little bit uncomfortable. But we are staying with the game rather than being left well behind as we were in the Premier League breakthrough years.

For me, Yerry Mina can be the symbol of a new dawn at Everton Football Club.

Darren Hind
59 Posted 20/07/2019 at 13:09:02
Lee Courtiff

I do not offer an argument. Having taken all things into consideration, I simply make a confident prediction. If we reach 55 points, that prediction will have been proved irrefutably correct. If we do and it will be proven irrefutably wrong. If we don't, the bookies don't pay out on ifs, buts or even maybes...
I don't offer an argument, I don't need to. Not one single person has come on and said we won't do it... Not one.

Kevin Prytherch.

Take a look at Jim Knightley's opening post 33. He comes in swinging trying to settle old scores from long gone arguments. Then, having declared I was talking rubbish, the penny drops and he realises he agrees with what I said! Although he does seem to be getting very hot under the collar about stuff I didn't say.

I don't care what people THINK I said. I will be asking the bookies for odds on Everton to get 55 points or more. Nobody else is being asked to jump on board.

The bookies are hard-nosed business men. They will not consider offering odds based on hypothetical bollocks about how many points we MAY have accumulated under imaginary circumstances. I will not be asking them for odds based on what might have happened had Zouma stayed.

I certainly won't be asking for odds based on pie-in-the-sky gibberish where we pretend Pickford isn't playing and Lossl is. I'd get laughed out of the fucking place.

John G Davies
60 Posted 20/07/2019 at 13:31:41
I too think we will get more points this season than last. That, imo, will happen because the manager will vastly improve us due to incoming players to enhance the squad, due to certain players having a full pre-season, and due to the manager knowing his squad and their capabilities much better. And due to the fact we will sign a forward who will contribute double-figure goal total.

Wether Zouma is there or not there will play a very small part in the overall equation.

Steuart Hayes
61 Posted 20/07/2019 at 13:36:52
Darren, whether we get more points next season is down to many many factors. There are 22 players on a pitch to start each game; then there are the subs, the manager's tactical changes, players form, injuries, good or bad decisions – even the supporters come in to it... luck and so many more I haven't got time to go through. So to say it's because Zouma is here or not is just silly.

Not trying to start another argument: just simple facts, mate.

Dermot Byrne
62 Posted 20/07/2019 at 13:46:12
Never believe a gambler who says they know the market. They always lose if you look over a decent period. Odds are stacked as they are hard business folk.

But it can be fun. I used to enjoy kidding myself with the occasional win.

I hope you are right about the points, Darren. I agree with your projection.

How it creates such seemingly bitter exchanges is beyond me!

Defenders? Of course we want him to leave Chelsea and sign for us. But I still have hope for Yerry.

The thread is interesting. Remind me of that great Python Arthur film.

"Come back, I'll night your legs off"!

Alan J Thompson
63 Posted 20/07/2019 at 14:14:50
Any moment now we'll get on to John Stones clanging his newly awarded medals as he comes down the tunnel wondering how many goals he'll give away this season while playing the lovely football that seems to escape a lot of players.

Those hard-nosed businessmen look at how much they hold on the book and if they offer odds against then they certainly don't agree with you while holding the tenet that they may be in the gambling business but they are not here to gamble, they are here to make a profit.

Brian Williams
64 Posted 20/07/2019 at 14:27:35
Are you lads that are getting all hot under the collar unable to see that Darren is merely stating that he believes we'll attain more points this season than we did last season?

He's not the only one. I believe we'll get more points too.

Can you not see that he's throwing Zouma into the equation to get people wound up ffs?

Dermot Byrne
65 Posted 20/07/2019 at 14:37:02
The childish "games" end up losing folk on TW. Many I miss.

I see Yerry being good and agree about higher points total. Striker is big issue for me and a quick striker rather than a traditional centre-forward. Others think differently. It is just opinions.

Life is too short to trail back and say "you said this or that in 2012".

Just as each game is over and the next one brings hope, let's have some collective fun rather than pointless picking holes in each other as much.


David Thomas
66 Posted 20/07/2019 at 15:32:02
Brian Williams – exactly. If people can't see he is on the wind-up, I'd be worried.
Darren Hind
68 Posted 20/07/2019 at 16:15:10
I didn't throw Zouma into the equation. The thread is about him (see title).

I've spent the last couple of months listening to Evertonians fretting about not signing Zouma. You would think the future of the club depended upon it.

I take a more positive view. We have several players who will improve next season and I believe we will improve our points tally... without Zouma.

The claim was made that I said any improvement made would be BECAUSE Zouma would be gone. Total fucking nonsense, of course. You will not find a post of mine which says anything of the kind, but it doesn't stop the desperate to be outraged, being err... outraged.

Whilst old familiar names crop up on here expressing angst and rage at my suggestion, I will simply place my bet... and here's the thing: they may well be getting bent all out of shape, they may well be marking their diaries in to throw it back at me come next May, they may even be sticking pins in dolls for all I know... but d'ya know what? If my judgement has been found wanting and the bet goes south, I'll simply shrug my shoulders and hope for better luck with my next little flutter.


Mike Gaynes
69 Posted 20/07/2019 at 16:27:55
Michael #54, one factual correction -- although Mina had a fine Copa America, he did not get into the Team of the Tournament.
Peter Gorman
70 Posted 20/07/2019 at 16:34:33
This thread is absolutely mental. I thought Darren's opening post was pretty straightforward but I guessed I missed all kinds of nuance.

Roll on the season, so we can all bicker about something more tangible.

Dave Abrahams
71 Posted 20/07/2019 at 16:37:00
Brian (64), good points, which will be the reason Darren will finish up not putting the bet on, because the odds will be very, very poor and won't be worth backing.

By the way, Darren, if you do get decent odds, let us know and I'll have a go as well.

Anthony A Hughes
79 Posted 20/07/2019 at 17:23:35
Zouma, current French international and regular first teamer.

Holgate can't nail down a first team place at a Premier League club and loaned to the Championship and nowhere near an international call up.

I know who I want playing centre half for us next season.

Andy Walker
80 Posted 20/07/2019 at 18:33:40
Darren, very confused by your point. You said “I think we will be getting more points without Zouma than we did with him.” Yet, on the other hand, you say that the claim made by others that you think any improvement made would be because Zouma was gone, was nonsense.

You say you are going to have a sizeable bet that “Everton without the stopper will get more points than we did with him”. Good luck, mate. So your intended bet is conditional on us not having Zouma.

Add this to your statement that you think we will get more points without Zouma than with him, how does this square with your assertion that it is wrong for any of us to assume you think that any improvement would be made because Zouma was gone?

You clearly think our points total will improve because he's gone and you also are prepared to put your money where your mouth is and bet we will get more points than last season on the condition Zouma goes.

Of course you might turn around and say you will have a bet that Everton will get more points than last season even if we have Zouma. But, if that was the case, you would have said that in your original post about having a bet, wouldn't you? Unless, of course, you were deliberately trying to wind people up, which I'm sure wasn't the case.

Darren Hind
81 Posted 21/07/2019 at 08:06:00
Andy Walker (aka Joe Columbo),

"Very confused"? That's what happens when you throw shite into the mix.

Nowhere do I declare my bet to be "conditional". That's just something you made up to suit the argument you clearly want to have. My bet, as I said on another thread, is even in the event of Gana going.

I don't need to wind people up on here, there are plenty who want to do that themselves.

I will never again talk about a bet I place on this site. The sheer black and whiteness of gambling (even the small-time stuff I indulge in) seems confuse too many. "Nuances"? ... "Variables"? ... "Complications"? WTF??? Can you imagine being stuck behind a razor sharp Brent Stephens in the queue of a County Road betting shop, arguing with the young assistant about the odds on offer for a 2-0 win? – "I think you'll find it's far more complicated than that, there are other factors to be taken into consideration."

Try giving bet365 a call and tell them you want to place a bet on a match on the condition that they too take "other factors" into consideration.

This thread reminds me of one that took place a year ago. I pointed out that the bookies had a newly promoted Wolves side down to finish above us. I stated then that I had watched a lot of Wolves and wouldn't put a brass Razoo on Everton finishing above them.

The irony is: the desperate to be outraged and the hard of thinking were out in force then too... only this time they were venting their fury because I said I wouldn't be placing the bet. Funny old world.

Tony Abrahams
82 Posted 21/07/2019 at 08:29:31
Funny, Darren... it's fuckin crackers, mate! And I've got a feeling we are going to be running round Wembley with the cup next season, but I'm waiting to see who we sign before I have a bet on us getting into the Top 4 though.
Ray Smith
83 Posted 21/07/2019 at 09:18:54
Don't normally give too much credence to media hype.

However, it's being reported that Zouma is about to hand in a transfer request to leave Chelsea to secure first-team football with us and his place in the French national side for next years Euros. We can but hope, at least I can.

I posted on a thread before the end of last season that we needed to sign Gomes and Zouma to stand still!

Half the job done, and strengthening in other areas appears to be being addressed. Players surplus to requirements are being cleared out slowly, so we need to be patient and trust M&M to do their best with what they inherited.

Brian Williams
84 Posted 21/07/2019 at 09:47:51
Well I know next to fuck all about gambling but I'm going to one of those betting shops to see if I can place a a bet on Everton attaining more points this season than they did last season should Neymar NOT be playing for us.

I know he didn't play for us last season or anything but I'm going to give it a go and see what odds I can get. Going to "lump on it" is it called? and win enough to go on a luxury holiday to Ffrith beach.

Ray #83. I remember that post mate.

Oh, one last thing. I'm (seriously) going to pace a bet on Gueye going nowhere.

Eugene Kearney
85 Posted 21/07/2019 at 10:28:02
PLEASE, Please let it be true, dear Lord. Is this a prayer being answered this Sunday? ;-)

Zouma going to hand in a transfer request. Happy days. Fingers crossed.

Andrew Ellams
86 Posted 21/07/2019 at 10:28:24
There seem to be a lot of assumptions that Mina will automatically become 1st choice if Zouma doesn't come back. Surely the whole thing depends on who Silva brings in as an alternative.
David Pearl
87 Posted 21/07/2019 at 10:38:43
I laughed (lol) just reading Zouma has handed in a transfer request at Chelsea. But is it true? Does he want to play, or sit on their bench all season?

I hope he doesn't cost too much. Now it's up to Brands as ever to negotiate a deal and, of course, sell to balance the books. Coyb!

David Pearl
89 Posted 21/07/2019 at 10:44:38
Odds without the top 6 10/3. Odds to beat last season's total probably wouldn't be worth a bet, surely less than evens... that's if that bet is available.
Martin Berry
90 Posted 21/07/2019 at 10:50:36
Players want to play so I understand that, if he can't be guaranteed playing time at Chelsea, that he will want to join us.

He obviously was very happy at Everton whereas, with being away from Chelsea due to two years of loans, he is probably among a lot of strange faces.

Welcome back, Kurt — you have moved to a better place and better team!

James Marshall
91 Posted 21/07/2019 at 10:51:37
I'd like us to sign Zouma, and I haven't read much of this thread as it seems to be one big fight about us signing Neymar and Darren's betting habits, but didn't we sign Yerry Mina on a full-time contract?

We already have a readymade replacement for Zouma, we just need to sign a backup defender. And a striker. Maybe a right back. Oh and replace Gana. Other than that...

Jim Knightley
92 Posted 21/07/2019 at 11:19:42
Darren – so many people including me are arguing with you on this thread. You think there's no reason for that? You think it's just because you said you were putting on a bet on us taking more points than last season? In a thread with 79 comments your name has been mentioned 36 times (and you're the only Darren posting)! Why do you think that is?

You are claiming you are merely talking about placing a bet, which is rubbish and you know it and other people know. Let's look at the first responses you made to me:

‘Get to the point; If you (or anybody else) thinks we will accumulate LESS points this season without Zouma. then have the courage of you convictions and be brave enough to say so.'

‘Put your judgement on the line. Tell me I'm wrong. Have the bollocks to say we will get less points without Zouma.'

YOU reduced this to an argument that placed Zouma's worth on our points total next season. That's what people are annoyed about and it's obvious. Multiple people have critiqued this notion.

In your first reply to me, you also invented claims about stuff I said, which I didn't' say. It's just pure lies you are slinging with zero evidence. You claim I'm confused because ‘I agree with you', because you seem incapable of grasping any notion of nuance
If you want to place a bet, why not just place it, without winding people up? You constantly talking about things you said that proved right, do you have any wonderful articles to show your brilliance? Because you clearly want a pat on the back. I wrote one and linked it, in response to your lies.

You could have just written a post in this forum saying ‘I think Zouma is overrated and we will be better with the options we've got' and left it there. But you didn't and clearly you're intending to wind people up with a string of subsequent replies. I mean you even have the audacity to claim that others ‘may well be marking their diaries in to throw it back at me come next May' when you've been throwing stuff at people which they've supposed said throughout this thread. Again it's this hypocrisy which winds and will wind people up.

Btw, I made a bet last season because I understand betting. Cashed out just before Liverpool overturned the Barcelona second leg deficit because I thought they would (probably because I'm an Everton fan and fear the worse, like many of us did). Funnily enough I didn't write any posts about it before or after – I just did it.

https://ibb.co/xCnsnqm

I think that ToffeeWeb would be a better place without you Darren, if you are going to lie, wind people up, and be openly hypocritical. Go ahead and read all the posts from all the people arguing with you. There is no smoke without fire in this case.

I can't be arsed with it and I won't be using ToffeeWeb again when the window is shut and I'm not checking out the transfer rumours. I'd love to have a place to enjoy being an Everton fan with other people and have debates but you single-handedly ruin that by trolling and winding people up. You are the less than 1% of people (by which I mean a bad egg in a very good forum), but as the 36 mentions of your name (either from posts you've written or references to you) illustrate you take up more than your fair share of space. I just can't be arsed with it and as Dermot's post (#65) eludes to, I'm not alone.

And on topic - If Zouma has handed in a transfer request, that's great news. Someone is rocking the boat at a Champions League club because they want to come to us. There is a context to that, and Zouma knows he isn't starting above Rudiger when he is fit, but I'm happy if it transpires because Zouma improves us.

Iain Johnston
93 Posted 21/07/2019 at 11:30:31
It doesn't matter whether we want Zouma and Chelsea do or don't.
They're banned from buying and selling at least in this window, end of...

Chelsea didn't request a sanction freeze during their appeal, the deadline for that was June 7th. Their ban just like those imposed on Barca, Real & Atletico will be over long before the appeal process is concluded.

Players like Hudson-Odoi, Zouma, Abraham & James will all be part of their '19/'20 squad.

All the rest is media white noise bollox.

Zouma's gone. Time to move on.

Rob Halligan
94 Posted 21/07/2019 at 11:32:57
Iain, Chelsea are only banned from buying players. They can still sell players. Eden Hazard moved to Real Madrid don't forget.
David Pearl
95 Posted 21/07/2019 at 11:36:17
Iain, sorry but have you heard that Hazzard has gone to Real Madrid?
Jim Bennings
97 Posted 21/07/2019 at 11:43:26
If Zouma does hand in a transfer request, then it really forces Chelsea's hand and I think it's down to us to simply go in there and bust the shop with an opening offer; they'll cave in once Kurt tells them where he wants to be!!
Rob Halligan
98 Posted 21/07/2019 at 11:49:56
Hope so, Jim B. Zouma cost Chelsea about £12M, and seeing as he has hardly played for them for about three years, I reckon a bid of around £30M might force Chelsea's hand.
Andy Walker
99 Posted 21/07/2019 at 12:17:25
Thanks for clarifying Darren (81). Your bet on Everton getting more points next season compared to last, is not conditional on Zouma leaving then.

I did caveat that your bet may indeed not be conditional on Zouma leaving, see the last para of my post no. 80. I then pondered that you may just be going to have a bet that we’ll get more points than last season regardless of Zouma. As I said good luck with it mate. You little tinker ;)

By the way I am going to have a bet that if Silva isn't our manager in January 2020, we’ll get more than 55 points. That doesn’t of course mean that if Silva is our manager in January 2020 we won’t get more than 55 points.

Chris Sinclair
101 Posted 21/07/2019 at 12:37:32
"You don't see me attacking a post, I rarely do (unless it's an OP) but that doesn't mean I will sit back and let people like you take liberties."

"Jim Bennings
You really do seem hell-bent on making a fool of yourself."

"It's the half-witted post dragging players like Gary Naysmith into the debate with a feeble-minded "lol" which make my toes curl..."

".if you can find the courage, great. we'll see who is right come the end of the season, if you cant, what are you moaning about ?

"Andy Walker ( aka Joe Columbo)
"Very confused" ?
That's what happens when you throw shite into the mix."

"I don't need to wind people up on here, there are plenty who want to do that themselves. Total drama queens.. Take Dermot @65."

"Unfortunately for you, you hypothetical bollocks was exposed as idiocy and you can't handle it."

For someone who rarely attacks posts, that's a pretty decent collection from a very, very sad individual.

Ray Roche
102 Posted 21/07/2019 at 12:42:12
Lads, the “Zouma transfer request “ emanates from the Daily Star. Think about it...

Or maybe the player's agent via the Daily Star to get a better contract.

Brian Williams
103 Posted 21/07/2019 at 12:55:54
Daily Star, eh, Ray? Well, at least it's from a respected publication!
Ray Roche
104 Posted 21/07/2019 at 13:02:21
Second only to The National Enquirer. Or the Sunday Sport.😁
James Marshall
105 Posted 21/07/2019 at 13:04:41
To be fair, it all fits. Lampard tells the press he wants Zouma to stay at Chelsea, then Zouma hands in a transfer request so that Lampard and Chelsea are made to look as though they always wanted him to stay, and Zouma leaves because he wants to anyway, and Chelsea know they can't stop him but look good doing it.

It's a win/win for Chelsea, Zouma and Everton. Simple really.

Iain Johnston
106 Posted 21/07/2019 at 13:15:43
Rob #94 & David #95.

Chelsea are banned from buying and selling after June 30th which is why they could sign Kovacic and sell Hazard. It was in the partially upheld appeal the FIFA Committee agreed to back in May.

Our transfer window opened on May 13th, before our season officially ended. We had over a month to negotiate and sign Zouma.

Now any talk of Chelsea transfers in just journo's filling inches.

Darren Hind
107 Posted 21/07/2019 at 13:16:45
Andy

I was saying something similar on the Gana thread. I said I would be betting on us with or without him too - perhaps that was also a wind up.

Incidentallly; Having read Mr Knightely's comments I took the trouble to read back on this thread. Anybody who has addressed me in a civil manner has received a polite response.

Hostility will always draw Hostility... at least where I'm from it does.

Paul Tran
109 Posted 21/07/2019 at 13:27:36
I think we'll get more points in the coming season and I'd happily bet on it if the odds were value. Time to search!

It will be good if we get Zouma for continuity, but I'd still do the bet if he wasn't with us, which might inflate the odds.

Zouma will play where he wants to next season. That's how it is these days.

Dermot's point about gambling is partially correct. Plenty of people make a regular profit; the bookies restrict your stakes to stop you earning a living from it. Still better than a savings account, though!

Dave Abrahams
110 Posted 21/07/2019 at 13:29:57
Iain (106), does Chelsea’s ban also apply to loan deals?
Brian Williams
111 Posted 21/07/2019 at 13:34:37
Dave #110,

Dave they're not allowed to "register" a player. I believe that they COULD buy or loan numerous players but not register them. Seems a stupid thing to do I know but another club did just that until their ban was served and then they registered the player. I think it was a big club that did it too.

With Chelsea's ban being a two-window one, it's not likely they'd do the same.

Dave Abrahams
112 Posted 21/07/2019 at 13:37:32
Brian (84), I’d swerve Ffrith beach, for a holiday, if I was you, better off in New Brighton or Otterspool.
Brian Williams
113 Posted 21/07/2019 at 13:41:32
Dave. Don't think I'm allowed in the vicinity of New Brighton for another year or so! Otterspool it is!
Chris Gould
114 Posted 21/07/2019 at 13:54:53
Iain, Chelsea CAN sell and loan players. They can only not register players.
If a club were to be punished by not allowing them to sell players, then the players would also be punished. FIFA can't ban a player from being able to leave a club. Not without a lawsuit!

If Chelsea couldn't sell Zouma, then Lampard wouldn't be making these comments, and Silva wouldn't be talking about our desire to sign him.

Vijay Nair
115 Posted 21/07/2019 at 14:31:50
Not exactly a reliable source, the Express, but there is word of Zouma putting in a transfer request.

https://www.express.co.uk/sport/boxing/1155983/Chelsea-Kurt-Zouma-Frank-Lampard-Everton-Transfer-Request

Ray Smith
116 Posted 21/07/2019 at 14:35:45
Iain

Chelsea have just rejected a £20m bid from Palace for Reece James.

If Chelsea couldn't sell, why would Zouma be looking to submit a transfer request (if true)?

I've looked at the conditions attached to the ban, and in my humble opinion, I cannot see any reference or condition over the sale of players.

It may be Chelsea's way of hiking the transfer fee, knowing that Zouma wants regular first-team football, which Lampard (guessing) will not commit to, despite his latest comments.

If Brands &Silva get another knock back, hopefully Zouma will submit a request immediately after.

I'm beginning to feel this could actually happen!

Brent Stephens
117 Posted 21/07/2019 at 14:43:38
Chris #114 that would make sense - restraint of trade?
Tony Hill
118 Posted 21/07/2019 at 14:52:07
Yes I've just seen that, Vijay @115. I suspect he does want to come to us.
Laurie Hartley
119 Posted 21/07/2019 at 14:55:22
Just as a matter of interest - if Zouma does put in a transfer request and Chelsea have to sell him (see Chris’ post 114) to us, would they be allowed to buy a replacement?
Brian Williams
120 Posted 21/07/2019 at 14:59:24
Laurie. Yes! They can buy any number of players they like. They just can't register them. Which means they couldn't play.

There's no scenario where Chelsea would HAVE to sell Zouma to us though!

Graham Fylde
121 Posted 21/07/2019 at 15:13:35
So the term 'transfer ban' is a bit misleading - Chelsea can buy and sell players, they just can't register them to play. If Chelsea want to keep him and he forces their hand while they have no realistic hope of a replacement, I wonder what they'll do on price!
Laurie Hartley
122 Posted 21/07/2019 at 15:24:45
In that case, Brian, selling Zouma to us would solve a problem for us, and create one for them.

As we are going to be challenging them for their spot in the top six they are going to take some convincing to part with him.

I can't see it happening but I hope I am wrong. I rate Zouma.

Sam Hoare
123 Posted 21/07/2019 at 15:28:06
I wonder how much Silva would be prepared to spend on Zouma? And how much do his fans on here think he’s worth?

I’m a big fan. He has his faults (error prone and iffy passing at times) but I think his assets well cover Keane/Mina’s deficiencies.

I’d be happy to pay £30m for him. Possibly even £40m given how settled he is in our team/league but any more than that starts to feel a bit silly. Having said that the price tags attributed to the likes of Maguire, Dunk and Tarkowski make me think Chelsea would be justified in charging the world!

Set to be an interesting few weeks.

Laurie Hartley
124 Posted 21/07/2019 at 15:33:56
Sam #123 – somewhere between £8 & 22 million. 😉
Brian Williams
125 Posted 21/07/2019 at 15:41:37
I'd hazard a guess that they'd price him at between £40m and £50m IF they were prepared to let him go.

The way the prices are going crazy (except for our sales), I couldn't see it being much, if any, less to be honest.

Ian Horan
126 Posted 21/07/2019 at 15:44:03
Zouma's signing is critical purely to standstill in 8th. CFC hold the cards even if Zouna hands I a transfer request, it will probably cost EFC over £50 mill to land him. But in today's transfer market, it would still be a bargain in my opinion.
Denis Richardson
127 Posted 21/07/2019 at 15:45:51
Sam 123 - for £40m I’d be expecting a better CB than Zouma. The three you mention are all English so come with the inevitable English premium.

Zouma will only be back up at Chelsea so hopefully a deal can be done if he wants to move. However if Chelsea are asking for £40m odd I’d hope the clubs looks elsewhere.

Sam Hoare
128 Posted 21/07/2019 at 15:53:58
Denis@123 I suspect Silva/Brands would probably pay £40m. There are better CBs for that. Napoli bought Manolas for £35m but I think we’d be prepared to pay a premium for someone who represents little risk and can hit the ground running.

I hope it wouldn’t be more than £40m.

James Hughes
129 Posted 21/07/2019 at 16:16:11
No way is Zouma worth £40-£50 million. They don't really want him and I am not sure we do either. All we have done is give a player, who was on loan, minutes on the pitch and improve him, possibly driving up his selling price on behalf of The Chavs

Mina has been injured so could not compete for a place most of the season so Zouma was needed. My Chelski brother in law, calls players like Zouma "Harvest Players". The club signs them with the vain hope they will make the grade, for a small fee. They look at them in training and decide, then loan them out. If they improve they harvest the profit.

Zouma is not better than Keane or Mina and both cost approx. £25 million. Pay any more than that and we have been mugged off.

Brian Williams
130 Posted 21/07/2019 at 16:24:33
James. I would quote "Wan Bissaka."

Is that lad worth £50m? It's all about supply and demand.

I mean, Galatasary have allegedly bid 1m (pounds or Euros not sure) for Schneiderlin so the world's gone mad. (Admittedly that's for a loan).

Jim Bennings
131 Posted 21/07/2019 at 16:27:52
James

Really, Zouma is not better than Keane it Mina?

I’m not dissing those lads but they are hardly Ferdinand and Vidic in their pomp!

I personally think Zouma brought the best out of Keane last season and his pace and athleticism is absolutely priceless in an otherwise very pedestrian looking central defence.

It’s a bit like when Jags was here, solid defender he was, he went from being 6/10 to 9/10 with the athleticism of a Distin or Lescott besides him.

Kurt Zouma will be a fully established international footballer playing for one of the Worlds leading national sides.

Tom Bowers
132 Posted 21/07/2019 at 16:36:25
We don't really have a solid central pairing unless Mina avoids injury and Keane stays consistent as Pennington and Holgate may not be great alternatives.

Zouma may feel he has a better option at Everton than Chelski but I suppose they have the inside track and we have to accept that.

Only a short time to go and Silva may stick with what he has so we will be on a wing and a prayer for the new season's expectations.

Eric Paul
133 Posted 21/07/2019 at 16:42:40
Jim,

Jags was the quickest player at the club at that time so I don't think it was their athleticism that brought the best out of him but I agree they complimented him perfectly.

Denis Richardson
134 Posted 21/07/2019 at 16:53:28
Sam 128, agree it’s nice to have a player who can hit the ground but on the flip side Zouma will only be back up.

I guess it’s the old who needs who more. If Chelsea feel they have us over a barrel they can demand a high fee. We can always say no and look elsewhere and call their bluff. However I think Zouma himself will be the deciding factor. If he asks for a move then that puts us in auch better position.

If we did pay £40m, at least we’d be getting a player in his mid 20s so a lot of years ahead of him. He would then however be expecting to start which likely means Mina on the bench.

Alan McGuffog
135 Posted 21/07/2019 at 17:11:17
Denis... indeed Chelsea may have us over a barrel if we truly want Zouma. They are entitled to as he is their player. Why then can we not bend PSG over said barrel regarding Gueye?
Sam Hoare
136 Posted 21/07/2019 at 17:20:40
Denis @134, I'm pretty sure he would not be back up, for us at least. Mina and Keane, who both lack his acceleration, would be fighting to partner him. Unless he suffered a big dip in form.

Either way I'm not convinced by the transfer request stories. Reckon we'll be looking elsewhere by end of the week.

Denis Richardson
137 Posted 21/07/2019 at 17:22:52
Alan 135 - am guessing we probably need the money re Gueye and will look at €40-45m (assuming we get that) as a very decent return on a player who cost us £7m.

The profit on Gueye basically covers the combined fee for Gomes and Delph. Pretty good business looked at that way Imo.

He also wants to leave and I think there was probably a gentleman's agreement in January to allow him to go in the summer.

Sean Patton
138 Posted 21/07/2019 at 17:35:40
Nobody ever has Marcel Brands over a barrel.
Alan McGuffog
139 Posted 21/07/2019 at 17:39:23
Indeed, Denis... I have no problem with Gueye leaving, he has handled things with a dignity that is becoming rarer in the beautiful game.

But it's obvious that Chelsea will want top dollar in the unlikely event of their selling Zouma. So, as I think you're suggesting, we should be looking for the incoming fee to cover the outgoing.

I would love to see them both here next season, having said that.

Jim Bennings
140 Posted 21/07/2019 at 18:12:20
How can Zouma still be classed as back up?

If Zouma signs then he’s the first name on the team sheet after the way he ended last season.

Mina is the back up right now and this is a huge season for him to really step up after an injury ravaged and out of sorts first season.

It’s Mina that has to break up Keane and Zouma.

Brian Williams
141 Posted 21/07/2019 at 18:36:42
Daily Star now saying Zouma hasn't handed in a transfer request.


The truth about Everton target Kurt Zouma 'handing in Chelsea transfer request'

James Hughes
143 Posted 21/07/2019 at 18:46:54
A matter of opinion, Jim. Zouma's a good player and you can't argue that but great? Not in my book.

It's also a bit silly to make that comparison with the Man Utd players. As a partnership, they haven't had time to get to know each other, let alone gel.

Zouma was poor at Stoke the previous season and almost average for the first half of last season with us. His improvement might say a lot about Silva's coaching as everyone knows Mark Hughes is a shite manger and coach.

Keane had a bad debut season and for reasons later revealed, foot injury etc, was in hindsight maybe not that bad, maybe even excellent. Mina... who knows yet... but, in the games he did play, he performed well.

If he was a great player, Chelsea wouldn't have sent him out on loan

Martin Mason
144 Posted 21/07/2019 at 18:51:48
The Null Hypothesis is that he's a Chelsea player to the end of his contract there and is not coming to Everton. It's much less disappointing to assume anything else.

Plan B looks very good to me if we can develop Mason and Mina by giving them game time and some patience. I'm really happy with 7th next season as long as we see improvements without loan players, have a good cup run, and establish a couple of homegrown lads rather than try to buy success in an unsustainable way.

I believe that the club is determined to be successful by organic growth – not speculative borrowed money. I fully support them in this. Does it denigrate us in any way compared with Liverpool? No, it gives us the moral high ground as we won't be financed by past glory, without any Singapore Blues.

Our future is incremental improvement from now on not a big leap into the top 6 and a fall back out again.

Jerome Shields
149 Posted 21/07/2019 at 22:37:38
Has Zouma handed in a transfer request????
Jerome Shields
150 Posted 21/07/2019 at 22:44:39
Apparently he hasn't.
Justin Doone
151 Posted 21/07/2019 at 23:50:06
Of course Chelsea say they want to keep him. If they said otherwise his value plummets. Put in a serious offer of £30M and see what they say then.

In the meantime move on to the next player on the transfer wish list. Silva stated there are other alternatives and other positions to strengthen so stop waiting for for Chelsea and move on.

Jay Harris
152 Posted 22/07/2019 at 03:50:24
Jerome, the Daily Slug reported that he had put in a transfer request and were the only source of that story.

Now they are saying it was fake news which most assumed was the case all along.

Regrettably Zouma is not the type to rock the boat so I think we need to move on to Plan B.

Dermot Byrne
153 Posted 22/07/2019 at 17:53:29
Chris 101: your argument with what I said? Fair enough if you think it crap. No prob. But your argument? Drama?
David Cash
154 Posted 23/07/2019 at 09:04:21
Chris 101

I have just seen your post and think it really unfair. I think you are taking a one sided view and If you don't mind I'd like to try to redress the balance.
I'm not here to fight Dazza's corner, he big and ugly enough to do that himself, but his opening post is as clear as the nose on your face to anybody who understands betting. He isn't worried about Zouma leaving, because he thinks we will improve anyway. As several people have noted. It couldnt be more clear.

Taking your points one by one it is clear they are all responses tohan attackss. He attacks nobody first.

I believe his response to him Bennings was OTT, but it was a response to a couple of foolish attempts to bait by Jim. First he asked Dazza to name the player who is "ten times" better. Then he puts up a make believe point about Digne and Naysmith and attributes it to him. Is that what passes for debate around here ? Did Jim even begin to understand the point ? We don't even know if Jim thinks we'll be worse off because he doesn't get round to saying.

Then there's the response to Jim Knighey. Again, Jim is the one who comes and attacks first. In my view its clear jim is spoling for a fight. In his opening paragraph (33) He goes straight for the personal insult. The next he makes accusation of "trolling. He then lmmediately demonstrates he doesn't even understand the point either

Jim's claims that he simply wants to come on and discuss. Everton with Evertonians really do ring hollow when you read how he re-introduces himself to this site. I thought DH's response to him was OTT. At least I did initially. I then read post 92. It came across as hate filled. There is clearly old issues here. Nobody would get that wound up about a sort post regarding a bet. He talks about how many people address Dazza. But he doesn't mention how many agree or are simply questioning his posts. Only a few are hostile.

The notion that this post was some sort of a wind up didn't surface until 64 posts in. Some latched on immediately.

I didn't see A Walkers post as hostile. I thought it was done with humour. I also think the response was done in jest.

Anyway Chris. I hope my post offers a little more balance. I know Darren so I hope any slight biase offsets a little of yours. Nobody needs to tell me what a spikey old fucker he can be. But some of the posts on this thread remind me of the guy who repeatedly prodded the bear. Then cried "foul" when he got the response he went looking for.

My trains about to pull in. So I'll leave you with this thought: Zouma will not be here next season, at east he's unlikely to be. Yet not one single person had come on here and said they think we wouldn't get more points.

One more question. This meeting in he Excelsior. I'm up for the game. Is it just for TW regulars. or can anyone come ?

Dave Abrahams
155 Posted 23/07/2019 at 09:28:07
David (154), it’s open to anyone, hope you can make it and try and persuade that “spikey old fucker” to come with you.
Brian Williams
156 Posted 23/07/2019 at 10:51:04
David Cash.
Zouma will not be here next season, at east he's unlikely to be. Yet not one single person had come on here and said they think we wouldn't get more points.
David, I think the reason nobody's come on and said we won't get more points has nowt to do with Zouma (whether he's here or not) IMO. It's due to the fact that we all, generally, believe the squad will be improved and we'll perform better over the course of the season and hopefully not suffer a terrible dip like we did last season.
The points tally, in truth, shouldn't be at all difficult to beat if Brands get's his arse moving.


Hope you make it to the Excelsior.

David Cash
157 Posted 25/07/2019 at 08:05:11
He's away Dave. I'll ask him when he gets back.

I'm looking forward to meeting you and your Tony. I was amazed at all the old Cardinal Godfrey boys posting on a recent thread. Hope a few of them turn up too.

Brian

I think that was always the point. The bet could never be conditional. It was always going to be with or without the big man. I think JK misunderstood that and lead a few people over a cliff talking about variables. IMO. Using the word "stopper" didnt warm people to what was essentially a positive point.

Anyway; Thats been done to death. Look forward to sharing a pint (or two) and discussing how we are going to fix this club and challenge the reds.

I'll keep an eye out for updates

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