Lampard: 'I want Zouma at Chelsea'

Now time to move on and we have less than 3 weeks to sew something up as yet again our defensive options look bare.

Keane was outstanding next to Zouma last season. Mina is injured too often and whilst that may change, my recent memories are of him missing more than he plays, hard to see him starting ten on the spin whilst in honesty Mina and Keane doesn't look as good as Zouma and Keane either it must be said.

Holgate and Keane would be far too fragile and lacking pace big time. Hopefully Brands seen this coming with Zouma and we can quickly look for an alternative option.

Once Lampard got in, it was a clean slate and Frankie probably watched the form of Zouma for us last season and wondered why the hell Chelsea ignore him when they've hardly got Maldini in defence.

It's not over yet.

The key thing perhaps is we haven't yet tested the water with an opening offer.

I can't somehow see Chelsea making Zouma priceless so, if he has a price, we need to find out what it is and maybe go close to it.

Of course it could secretly be now that Zouma has accepted he's staying there and will knuckle down and try to break into the side.

I will be having a sizeable bet that Everton without the stopper will get more points than we did with him. I will also be taking advantage of the generous odds the bookies will be giving for us to finish above Frank Lampard's Chelsea.

Let him go. Farewell.

I would have loved the continuity in defence by having him back with us, but hey, let's draw a line and move on to other targets. Running out of time now to get the key positions sorted.

Regardless of their ban, they do have to get rid of a few foreign players, as has been said. There is a lot of competition for that place. And do they really want to retain a player who wants out?

I think it depends on how much Zouma wants to come back. That may depend on what guarantees Lampard can give him, in respect of playing time.

Zouma wants football and he probably won't get it at Chelsea.

Cue an overt move for another centre-back by Marcel Brands to draw Zouma out and force Chelsea's hand.

A guy that's going to win us all these points and keep that clean sheets record going at Goodison?

He's better than you give him credit for, and he'd come in knowing what's expected of him from the off. No teething issues or problems settling in.

All you have to do is get odds on Everton accumulating 55 points or more. We accumulated 54 points with Zouma at centre-back. If the incredibly shrewd judges who would have you believe it is disastrous that he won't be here next season are to be proved right, we will surely suffer and get less points.

I say we will get more without him. I'll leave the ifs, buts and maybes to those who don't understand a simple bet.

If any of those incredibly shrewd judges feel they want to back their claims up with a bet that we will get less points without Mr Muscle, they are perfectly at liberty to get down to the bookies and lump on. They won't, of course. They'll just moan about it on here.

I would like this club to be prepared for the season ahead with a strong squad to go into the season, as opposed to be ill-prepared like we have done for many seasons, shortage of players in certain positions and players playing in makeshift positions. That nonsense has got to stop.

The next three weeks are defining in many respects and an indication of which direction the club is positioning themselves to go into.

Not to mention the many other immeasurable variables. It will also be impossible to prove that we wouldn't have done even better with him in the team.
Your logic is too simplistic and, with respect, so is your opinion of Zouma's abilities.

You really do seem hell-bent on making a fool of yourself.

It's not six months ago that you were coming on here telling us that Everton (complete with Mr Muscle) would not win another game this season. You then exposed your judgement further by coming on week after week claiming we would lose. We kept winning . . . I don't think it would be possible to be wronger.

Now, having been wrong for every single one of those games, you've decided Zouma is a world-beater and you know best.

Funny... genuinely funny.

Chris

Meaningless bet? You do understand the concept of gambling? If you like a bet and you think something will happen, you take a punt... nobody else is obliged to do oppose or agree. I am confident we will secure more points without Zouma, because he was one of our weakest links for long periods of last season, so I`ll put money on it. That's all.

I think he is more than just a big grock, as you imply...

Although, like you, I don't rate him as high as some and don't think it's end of world if we miss out. Even looking at Chelsea alone, I actually think Chelsea's Rudiger and Luiz are much better than Zouma.

I notice you don't bring out a name when I ask who this fantastic mystery new centre half will be that is going to win us more points than Zouma?

If Zouma wants to come to Everton, he should make it clear. Otherwise, he might be sitting on the bench a lot. It's time to give a chance to Mina and Holgate.

He would look ridiculous if he sold Zouma and was exposed defensively through an injury.

We've just been unlucky with this one because of their ban, but I am sure Mr Brands was expecting this outcome and will have contingencies.

Clutching at straws, maybe... but, until it's confirmed Zouma will definitely be staying at Chelsea, then there's hope we could sign him.

If he doesn't come, then I certainly hope you win your bet.

Fair enough. You think Zouma is a good defender. There have been times when I would agree with you.

I want a different approach. I think we will be getting more points without Zouma than we did with him. That's my opinion... I won't miss him.

Like all bets, there are two sides to it: if people think we will be worse off, they can place their own bets. That's their prerogative.

I'm more than comfortable that you don't agree with me, that's what the site is about. It's the half-witted post dragging players like Gary Naysmith into the debate with a feeble-minded "lol" which make my toes curl...

It seems to me, though, that Mina is going to need time and patience. As will Mason, and I 'm sure you dread as much as me the abuse that will be associated with his learning curve.

I believe that Mason would be best learning alongside Zouma, who is, I believe, more technically accomplished than you give him credit for. We know that is not happening, so who starts?

The insanity of the fee quoted for the carthorse Maguire makes me think that Keane, Holgate and Mina are okay. We just need to be patient.

Are you trying to troll, or you really think that Zouma's worth will entirely be determined by whether we get more points or not? As if everything else will be exactly the same as last season except for Zouma...do you literally have any idea...how anything works? That you think there are only two scenarios is baffling.

Zouma was our best CB last season. He isn't incredible - he has weaknesses, and we can find a better ball player and with enough money maybe we will find a better player. But I'd much rather have him in our team than not, because at present we will be weaker without him. I agree with Darren's claim that we can finish above Chelsea this year - I think with Zouma/another top CB, and a top striker, we could push Arsenal, United, and Chelsea if our players stay fit. But Zouma staying at Chelsea makes finding that CB harder. He was a key component of the backline which kept so many clean sheets at the tail end of last season.

The three teams above us are in transition and the conditions are there for our best season in years. But we need a CB and we need a striker and the clock is ticking.

John, 34, I don't think it really works like that, it certainly shouldn't. These clubs are in contact all the time and know each other inside out. Most of the stories like this one are just journalists making stories out of an answer the manager gives to a fairly innocuous question. I'm fairly sure that anything meaningful takes place behind the scenes.

I have almost resigned myself to him not being here next season, surely for the sort of money they are talking, or would be if Zouma were to be sold, we could possibly get a better player?

Even if you totalled the points from the games he featured in and compared the points collected from the corresponding games this season without him (relegated teams from last season can't be included obviously) there are still so many variables in football that it's impossible (and crazy) to say that Zouma was the difference.

Perhaps in an alternate Universe where we've signed Zouma you could compare those points totals with the points for the upcoming season in this Universe. Although we've just signed Neymar in the alternate Universe so that might be an unfair comparison.

I thought you'd disappeared because all my claims about rank bad management were proved to be spot on and all that self proclaimed positive stuff you spouted turned out to be naive wishful thinking
So it was a break you were taking ???

I laugh when you tell me I'm talking rubbish then spend most of your post agreeing with me about Zouma's weakness's and Evertons chances of finishing above Chelsea - Typical confused Knightley.

Now let me explain the bit that is getting you bent all out of shape. I'll do it slowly in the hope that you can grasp it.

I don't mention Zoumas worth. I cant calculate Zouma's worth. . I don't give a flying fuck about Zouma's worth.
I care about Everton and Zouma does not play for Everton. . . Getting it so far ?

Everton finished with 54 points with Zouma. I say they will finish with more without him and if we do . .Not signing him will clearly not have been the disaster the "shrewd" boys have made it out to be. Is that simple point really so hard for you to understand ?

I'm not interested in your daft arsed distractions, your if's, but's and maybe's. I don't care that you have come on hurling insults - as long as you don't start bleating when you get a litttle back.

Get to the point; If you (or anybody else) thinks we will accumulate LESS points this season without Zouma. then have the courage of you convictions and be brave enough to say so.

I've nailed my colors. I've put myself up to be shot at. I have shown the courage of my convictions. I did it in a succinct short post - still up there. post 9. . . Do you think you could (without going all around the houses) do the same ???

I'm sick of hearing faux outrage from people who dare not express an opinion themselves.

Put your judgement on the line. Tell me I'm wrong. Have the bollocks to say we will get less points without Zouma.
Rather than scream the house down without actually refuting the sole point of my post. Why not register an opinion of your own.if you can find the courage, great. we`ll see who is right come the end of the season, if you cant, what are you moaning about ?

I do see Zouma now staying at Chelsea but I imagine he will sit on the bench and come January we can have another go at signing him either on loan again or permanently. Let's not forget that Mina is our player, he's young and he hasn't yet shown us what he can do.

Best of luck Kurt, something tells me you're going to need it at Chelsea.

But I don't think he is as brilliant as people make out. Against Arsenal away last season he was atrocious.

Zouma is another Distin for me. And I will probably upset a few evertonians here, because Distin was extremely popular for some reason. They are very similar.

Big sliding robust challenges and headers get the crowd going. But just like Distin, Zouma did this (very well) oft n as a result of his own poor positional play or reading of the game.

When you have a physical specimen like Kurt Zouma or Sylvain Distin then it is difficult not to be impressed when they swat the average footballer like a fly.

My point is they are often seen doing this because it's last chance saloon.

We won't miss Zouma. Not for a second. Yerry Mina is our main man. He joined us, permanently and is ours. A colossus. We just need to find someone to play alongside him

I'll try to make this simple for you because you clearly need it. It's possible for me to think that we are BOTH worse off without Zouma AND can challenge Chelsea in the league. I can critique the absurdity of you claiming that our points total will determine Zouma's worth (As others have) and agree with something else you say (i.e that we could challenge Chelsea this season). Try googling 'binary thinking' and 'nuance'.

I'll be very clear for you. I think we will exceed our points total for last season but I think an Everton side without Zouma will score less points than one with him. I think we underachieved last season but we are beginning this season familiar with Silva's tactics and with key players bedded into the side. Chelsea will be worse than last season. Not because of Zouma – Zouma has nothing to do with it. But because Chelsea have lost the player that makes them tick (Hazard) – They will score less goals and when they fail to perform the crowd will turn and players heads will drop, as they have tended to do. Giroud is older, Pedro is older, Willian has been out of form for months and showed no signs of improvement during the Copa. Rudiger is out, neither of their left backs is good enough, and they've got very little central midfield cover with Loftus out. Lampard is a dead man walking – Chelsea won't finish in the top 4 and he will pay the price.

So to be very simple for you:
Chelsea minus Hazard and with issues in key areas = worse.
Chelsea = overachieved in the league last season.
Everton = underachieved.
Everton without Zouma = more points than last season.
Everton with Zouma = more points than last season and more than an Everton side without him.

Zouma was our best CB last season. He isn't flawless by any means, and you may argue that Keane was better. But we need his qualities – Mina is still unproven and switches off way too much (as he did at Barca). Holgate isn't good enough. Last time I checked there wasn't a pool of very good Premier League centre backs we could pick from, especially if suggestions of our spending being constrained by FFP rules are correct.

This is all too much for you, lad. You are running away with the stupid idea that I'm putting up some sort of argument. Read post 9; if that post isn't simple enough for you, I'm sorry. I can't dumb it down any further...

My statement is as basic as it gets. I said to those weepers and wailers who think we are doomed because he ain't coming, we will get more points without Zouma. Get it? simple enough?

That`s not sleight of hand, there are no hidden ifs, buts or maybes. It's a quantifiable statement which can be weighed, measured, proven or unproven. The proof will be irrefutable. If we get 55 points, the statement will prove to be correct; if we get 53, it will prove to be incorrect.

I find it truly hilarious that, when challenged, you feel forced to admit that you agree that you too think we will get more points next time around. It's not so much that you agree that I find hilarious. I knew the penny would eventually drop, just as it will with others who are having difficulty processing my very simple transparent statement. It's the fact that you go on and do the very thing you accuse me of.

Jim Knightley – "I think we will exceed our points total for last season, but I think an Everton side with Zouma will score less points than one with him."

See a difference here, Jim? I have the courage to make a statement which can be proven wrong. You chose to hide behind hypothetical bollocks in the certain knowledge that you can never be proven wrong.

Jim Knightley – "Yeahbutnobutyeahbut... I deal in what is, not what might have been. Yeah, I too think we will accumulate more points next season... but we'd have accumulated even more IF Zouma stayed."

Sigh...

So, we don't have Zouma but amass 60 points by May. Is that because Kurt left or because we didn't stop playing for nearly 3 months during winter time?

We end up with 56 points, is that because we're better without Kurt or because Pickford DIDN'T drop a clanger in the very last minute of the Anfield derby?

We total 70 odd points, is that because we're a superior team without Zouma or because Calvert-Lewin finally managed to finish the chances his and our approach play deserved?

I'm not the bigger fan of Zouma but we played our best offensive and defensive football with him IN the team! And he weighed in with a couple of goals too.

It is odds on Yerry won't get to Christmas injury-free and we need to be well prepared for that or our season will suffer.

Zouma was our best defender for the last 3 months, but often looked a liability in his first few months.

Also, why is it so hard for people to agree on here??

Darren says that we will get more points without Zouma, Jim blatantly agrees. Jim says that, despite probably getting more points without Zouma, we would get more with him - perfectly valid argument but dismissed by Darren. How hard is it, once you've started a debate, to simply agree with someone else?

My main worry in defence is Keane and Mina might be too similar and both might share the same weakness (speed) but that is our managers problem he knew what he had before he signed Mina so he has to deal with it. In all honesty, I am more concerned with us getting rid of the deadwood and replacing Gueye if we sell him. I think we have the basis for a very strong team already. I also fancy that we will get the left-footed right winger Silva wants (Malcom loan to buy is my guess) and that will give the team a lot more balance and allow us to play the way Silva ideally would like with 3 wingers cutting inside and fullbacks overlapping.

I think in the transfer market now we need to follow the model of last year make 2 or 3 big signings and plug the rest with loans (with the option to buy ideally).

"Darren says that we will get more points without Zouma, Jim blatantly agrees. Jim says that, despite probably getting more points without Zouma, we would get more with him – perfectly valid argument but dismissed by Darren. How hard is it, once you've started a debate, to simply agree with someone else?"

Try reading that again really slowly, Darren; it's not hard to grasp, is it?

And I am putting my neck out, as I did with my Martinez post and have on various occasions. I think we will get more points than last season – you understand that surely?

Here is another one for you and I want to get your answer on this one: If we sold Pickford tomorrow and played Lössl in goal for the season, I still think we would get more points than last season (Gueye staying is more important imo). Here is a 3 answer selection for you:

1) If we were to get more points with Lossi in goal, would that mean that Lössl was better than Pickford?
2) If we got less, would that mean Lössl was worse than Pickford?
3) Would the whole scenario be irrelevant because reducing 38 games to the worth of a single player in an 11-man team (plus subs) vs another 11 men (plus subs) each week be the epitome of stupidity? (And obviously Pickford is better than Lössl.)

Looking at these posts – your fictional claim about me (ignored this time) and your constant desire to reduce everything to a Yes or No answer which is utterly non-nonsensical – so non-nonsensical that most primary school children could see the logical flaws in it – I can only conclude that you are trolling. And it's not the kind of thing that should be happening in these forums.

Honestly, you're embarrassing. The vast majority on here can have a debate – it can be heated and have opposing sides, but this isn't that. This is you arguing about something that makes no sense and ignoring all the people telling you it's the case.

And that's the clincher.

For what it's worth, I felt Zouma got stronger and more confident as the season developed and became almost the man of every match towards the end. I wish we could retain him but the signs don't look good. I also think Keane got stronger as the season developed (the injury behind him, Zouma alongside him) but he'll need somebody alongside him better than what we currently have if we can't have Zouma.

He and Lucas Digne are leaders. I can sense one of them being our captain very soon. We are evolving, slowly, as a club. We are veering from traditions familiar to the club and that feels a little bit uncomfortable. But we are staying with the game rather than being left well behind as we were in the Premier League breakthrough years.

For me, Yerry Mina can be the symbol of a new dawn at Everton Football Club.

I do not offer an argument. Having taken all things into consideration, I simply make a confident prediction. If we reach 55 points, that prediction will have been proved irrefutably correct. If we do and it will be proven irrefutably wrong. If we don't, the bookies don't pay out on ifs, buts or even maybes...
I don't offer an argument, I don't need to. Not one single person has come on and said we won't do it... Not one.

Kevin Prytherch.

Take a look at Jim Knightley's opening post 33. He comes in swinging trying to settle old scores from long gone arguments. Then, having declared I was talking rubbish, the penny drops and he realises he agrees with what I said! Although he does seem to be getting very hot under the collar about stuff I didn't say.

I don't care what people THINK I said. I will be asking the bookies for odds on Everton to get 55 points or more. Nobody else is being asked to jump on board.

The bookies are hard-nosed business men. They will not consider offering odds based on hypothetical bollocks about how many points we MAY have accumulated under imaginary circumstances. I will not be asking them for odds based on what might have happened had Zouma stayed.

I certainly won't be asking for odds based on pie-in-the-sky gibberish where we pretend Pickford isn't playing and Lossl is. I'd get laughed out of the fucking place.

Wether Zouma is there or not there will play a very small part in the overall equation.

Not trying to start another argument: just simple facts, mate.

But it can be fun. I used to enjoy kidding myself with the occasional win.

I hope you are right about the points, Darren. I agree with your projection.

How it creates such seemingly bitter exchanges is beyond me!

Defenders? Of course we want him to leave Chelsea and sign for us. But I still have hope for Yerry.

The thread is interesting. Remind me of that great Python Arthur film.

"Come back, I'll night your legs off"!

Those hard-nosed businessmen look at how much they hold on the book and if they offer odds against then they certainly don't agree with you while holding the tenet that they may be in the gambling business but they are not here to gamble, they are here to make a profit.

He's not the only one. I believe we'll get more points too.

Can you not see that he's throwing Zouma into the equation to get people wound up ffs?

I see Yerry being good and agree about higher points total. Striker is big issue for me and a quick striker rather than a traditional centre-forward. Others think differently. It is just opinions.

Life is too short to trail back and say "you said this or that in 2012".

Just as each game is over and the next one brings hope, let's have some collective fun rather than pointless picking holes in each other as much.

I've spent the last couple of months listening to Evertonians fretting about not signing Zouma. You would think the future of the club depended upon it.

I take a more positive view. We have several players who will improve next season and I believe we will improve our points tally... without Zouma.

The claim was made that I said any improvement made would be BECAUSE Zouma would be gone. Total fucking nonsense, of course. You will not find a post of mine which says anything of the kind, but it doesn't stop the desperate to be outraged, being err... outraged.

Whilst old familiar names crop up on here expressing angst and rage at my suggestion, I will simply place my bet... and here's the thing: they may well be getting bent all out of shape, they may well be marking their diaries in to throw it back at me come next May, they may even be sticking pins in dolls for all I know... but d'ya know what? If my judgement has been found wanting and the bet goes south, I'll simply shrug my shoulders and hope for better luck with my next little flutter.

Roll on the season, so we can all bicker about something more tangible.

By the way, Darren, if you do get decent odds, let us know and I'll have a go as well.

Holgate can't nail down a first team place at a Premier League club and loaned to the Championship and nowhere near an international call up.

I know who I want playing centre half for us next season.

You say you are going to have a sizeable bet that “Everton without the stopper will get more points than we did with him”. Good luck, mate. So your intended bet is conditional on us not having Zouma.

Add this to your statement that you think we will get more points without Zouma than with him, how does this square with your assertion that it is wrong for any of us to assume you think that any improvement would be made because Zouma was gone?

You clearly think our points total will improve because he's gone and you also are prepared to put your money where your mouth is and bet we will get more points than last season on the condition Zouma goes.

Of course you might turn around and say you will have a bet that Everton will get more points than last season even if we have Zouma. But, if that was the case, you would have said that in your original post about having a bet, wouldn't you? Unless, of course, you were deliberately trying to wind people up, which I'm sure wasn't the case.

"Very confused"? That's what happens when you throw shite into the mix.

Nowhere do I declare my bet to be "conditional". That's just something you made up to suit the argument you clearly want to have. My bet, as I said on another thread, is even in the event of Gana going.

I don't need to wind people up on here, there are plenty who want to do that themselves.

I will never again talk about a bet I place on this site. The sheer black and whiteness of gambling (even the small-time stuff I indulge in) seems confuse too many. "Nuances"? ... "Variables"? ... "Complications"? WTF??? Can you imagine being stuck behind a razor sharp Brent Stephens in the queue of a County Road betting shop, arguing with the young assistant about the odds on offer for a 2-0 win? – "I think you'll find it's far more complicated than that, there are other factors to be taken into consideration."

Try giving bet365 a call and tell them you want to place a bet on a match on the condition that they too take "other factors" into consideration.

This thread reminds me of one that took place a year ago. I pointed out that the bookies had a newly promoted Wolves side down to finish above us. I stated then that I had watched a lot of Wolves and wouldn't put a brass Razoo on Everton finishing above them.

The irony is: the desperate to be outraged and the hard of thinking were out in force then too... only this time they were venting their fury because I said I wouldn't be placing the bet. Funny old world.

However, it's being reported that Zouma is about to hand in a transfer request to leave Chelsea to secure first-team football with us and his place in the French national side for next years Euros. We can but hope, at least I can.

I posted on a thread before the end of last season that we needed to sign Gomes and Zouma to stand still!

Half the job done, and strengthening in other areas appears to be being addressed. Players surplus to requirements are being cleared out slowly, so we need to be patient and trust M&M to do their best with what they inherited.

I know he didn't play for us last season or anything but I'm going to give it a go and see what odds I can get. Going to "lump on it" is it called? and win enough to go on a luxury holiday to Ffrith beach.

Ray #83. I remember that post mate.

Oh, one last thing. I'm (seriously) going to pace a bet on Gueye going nowhere.

Zouma going to hand in a transfer request. Happy days. Fingers crossed.

I hope he doesn't cost too much. Now it's up to Brands as ever to negotiate a deal and, of course, sell to balance the books. Coyb!

He obviously was very happy at Everton whereas, with being away from Chelsea due to two years of loans, he is probably among a lot of strange faces.

Welcome back, Kurt — you have moved to a better place and better team!

We already have a readymade replacement for Zouma, we just need to sign a backup defender. And a striker. Maybe a right back. Oh and replace Gana. Other than that...

You are claiming you are merely talking about placing a bet, which is rubbish and you know it and other people know. Let's look at the first responses you made to me:

‘Get to the point; If you (or anybody else) thinks we will accumulate LESS points this season without Zouma. then have the courage of you convictions and be brave enough to say so.'

‘Put your judgement on the line. Tell me I'm wrong. Have the bollocks to say we will get less points without Zouma.'

YOU reduced this to an argument that placed Zouma's worth on our points total next season. That's what people are annoyed about and it's obvious. Multiple people have critiqued this notion.

In your first reply to me, you also invented claims about stuff I said, which I didn't' say. It's just pure lies you are slinging with zero evidence. You claim I'm confused because ‘I agree with you', because you seem incapable of grasping any notion of nuance
If you want to place a bet, why not just place it, without winding people up? You constantly talking about things you said that proved right, do you have any wonderful articles to show your brilliance? Because you clearly want a pat on the back. I wrote one and linked it, in response to your lies.

You could have just written a post in this forum saying ‘I think Zouma is overrated and we will be better with the options we've got' and left it there. But you didn't and clearly you're intending to wind people up with a string of subsequent replies. I mean you even have the audacity to claim that others ‘may well be marking their diaries in to throw it back at me come next May' when you've been throwing stuff at people which they've supposed said throughout this thread. Again it's this hypocrisy which winds and will wind people up.

Btw, I made a bet last season because I understand betting. Cashed out just before Liverpool overturned the Barcelona second leg deficit because I thought they would (probably because I'm an Everton fan and fear the worse, like many of us did). Funnily enough I didn't write any posts about it before or after – I just did it.

https://ibb.co/xCnsnqm

I think that ToffeeWeb would be a better place without you Darren, if you are going to lie, wind people up, and be openly hypocritical. Go ahead and read all the posts from all the people arguing with you. There is no smoke without fire in this case.

I can't be arsed with it and I won't be using ToffeeWeb again when the window is shut and I'm not checking out the transfer rumours. I'd love to have a place to enjoy being an Everton fan with other people and have debates but you single-handedly ruin that by trolling and winding people up. You are the less than 1% of people (by which I mean a bad egg in a very good forum), but as the 36 mentions of your name (either from posts you've written or references to you) illustrate you take up more than your fair share of space. I just can't be arsed with it and as Dermot's post (#65) eludes to, I'm not alone.

And on topic - If Zouma has handed in a transfer request, that's great news. Someone is rocking the boat at a Champions League club because they want to come to us. There is a context to that, and Zouma knows he isn't starting above Rudiger when he is fit, but I'm happy if it transpires because Zouma improves us.

Chelsea didn't request a sanction freeze during their appeal, the deadline for that was June 7th. Their ban just like those imposed on Barca, Real & Atletico will be over long before the appeal process is concluded.

Players like Hudson-Odoi, Zouma, Abraham & James will all be part of their '19/'20 squad.

All the rest is media white noise bollox.

Zouma's gone. Time to move on.

I did caveat that your bet may indeed not be conditional on Zouma leaving, see the last para of my post no. 80. I then pondered that you may just be going to have a bet that we'll get more points than last season regardless of Zouma. As I said good luck with it mate. You little tinker ;)

By the way I am going to have a bet that if Silva isn't our manager in January 2020, we'll get more than 55 points. That doesn't of course mean that if Silva is our manager in January 2020 we won't get more than 55 points.

"Jim Bennings
You really do seem hell-bent on making a fool of yourself."

"It's the half-witted post dragging players like Gary Naysmith into the debate with a feeble-minded "lol" which make my toes curl..."

".if you can find the courage, great. we'll see who is right come the end of the season, if you cant, what are you moaning about ?

"Andy Walker ( aka Joe Columbo)
"Very confused" ?
That's what happens when you throw shite into the mix."

"I don't need to wind people up on here, there are plenty who want to do that themselves. Total drama queens.. Take Dermot @65."

"Unfortunately for you, you hypothetical bollocks was exposed as idiocy and you can't handle it."

For someone who rarely attacks posts, that's a pretty decent collection from a very, very sad individual.

Or maybe the player's agent via the Daily Star to get a better contract.

It's a win/win for Chelsea, Zouma and Everton. Simple really.

Chelsea are banned from buying and selling after June 30th which is why they could sign Kovacic and sell Hazard. It was in the partially upheld appeal the FIFA Committee agreed to back in May.

Our transfer window opened on May 13th, before our season officially ended. We had over a month to negotiate and sign Zouma.

Now any talk of Chelsea transfers in just journo's filling inches.

I was saying something similar on the Gana thread. I said I would be betting on us with or without him too - perhaps that was also a wind up.

Incidentallly; Having read Mr Knightely's comments I took the trouble to read back on this thread. Anybody who has addressed me in a civil manner has received a polite response.

Hostility will always draw Hostility... at least where I'm from it does.

It will be good if we get Zouma for continuity, but I'd still do the bet if he wasn't with us, which might inflate the odds.

Zouma will play where he wants to next season. That's how it is these days.

Dermot's point about gambling is partially correct. Plenty of people make a regular profit; the bookies restrict your stakes to stop you earning a living from it. Still better than a savings account, though!

Dave they're not allowed to "register" a player. I believe that they COULD buy or loan numerous players but not register them. Seems a stupid thing to do I know but another club did just that until their ban was served and then they registered the player. I think it was a big club that did it too.

With Chelsea's ban being a two-window one, it's not likely they'd do the same.

If Chelsea couldn't sell Zouma, then Lampard wouldn't be making these comments, and Silva wouldn't be talking about our desire to sign him.

https://www.express.co.uk/sport/boxing/1155983/Chelsea-Kurt-Zouma-Frank-Lampard-Everton-Transfer-Request

Chelsea have just rejected a 㿀m bid from Palace for Reece James.

If Chelsea couldn't sell, why would Zouma be looking to submit a transfer request (if true)?

I've looked at the conditions attached to the ban, and in my humble opinion, I cannot see any reference or condition over the sale of players.

It may be Chelsea's way of hiking the transfer fee, knowing that Zouma wants regular first-team football, which Lampard (guessing) will not commit to, despite his latest comments.

If Brands &Silva get another knock back, hopefully Zouma will submit a request immediately after.

I'm beginning to feel this could actually happen!

There's no scenario where Chelsea would HAVE to sell Zouma to us though!

As we are going to be challenging them for their spot in the top six they are going to take some convincing to part with him.

I can't see it happening but I hope I am wrong. I rate Zouma.

I'm a big fan. He has his faults (error prone and iffy passing at times) but I think his assets well cover Keane/Mina's deficiencies.

I'd be happy to pay £30m for him. Possibly even £40m given how settled he is in our team/league but any more than that starts to feel a bit silly. Having said that the price tags attributed to the likes of Maguire, Dunk and Tarkowski make me think Chelsea would be justified in charging the world!

Set to be an interesting few weeks.

The way the prices are going crazy (except for our sales), I couldn't see it being much, if any, less to be honest.

Zouma will only be back up at Chelsea so hopefully a deal can be done if he wants to move. However if Chelsea are asking for £40m odd I'd hope the clubs looks elsewhere.

I hope it wouldn't be more than £40m.

Mina has been injured so could not compete for a place most of the season so Zouma was needed. My Chelski brother in law, calls players like Zouma "Harvest Players". The club signs them with the vain hope they will make the grade, for a small fee. They look at them in training and decide, then loan them out. If they improve they harvest the profit.

Zouma is not better than Keane or Mina and both cost approx. 㿅 million. Pay any more than that and we have been mugged off.

Is that lad worth £50m? It's all about supply and demand.

I mean, Galatasary have allegedly bid 1m (pounds or Euros not sure) for Schneiderlin so the world's gone mad. (Admittedly that's for a loan).

Really, Zouma is not better than Keane it Mina?

I'm not dissing those lads but they are hardly Ferdinand and Vidic in their pomp!

I personally think Zouma brought the best out of Keane last season and his pace and athleticism is absolutely priceless in an otherwise very pedestrian looking central defence.

It's a bit like when Jags was here, solid defender he was, he went from being 6/10 to 9/10 with the athleticism of a Distin or Lescott besides him.

Kurt Zouma will be a fully established international footballer playing for one of the Worlds leading national sides.

Zouma may feel he has a better option at Everton than Chelski but I suppose they have the inside track and we have to accept that.

Only a short time to go and Silva may stick with what he has so we will be on a wing and a prayer for the new season's expectations.

Jags was the quickest player at the club at that time so I don't think it was their athleticism that brought the best out of him but I agree they complimented him perfectly.

I guess it's the old who needs who more. If Chelsea feel they have us over a barrel they can demand a high fee. We can always say no and look elsewhere and call their bluff. However I think Zouma himself will be the deciding factor. If he asks for a move then that puts us in auch better position.

If we did pay £40m, at least we'd be getting a player in his mid 20s so a lot of years ahead of him. He would then however be expecting to start which likely means Mina on the bench.

Either way I'm not convinced by the transfer request stories. Reckon we'll be looking elsewhere by end of the week.

The profit on Gueye basically covers the combined fee for Gomes and Delph. Pretty good business looked at that way Imo.

He also wants to leave and I think there was probably a gentleman's agreement in January to allow him to go in the summer.

But it's obvious that Chelsea will want top dollar in the unlikely event of their selling Zouma. So, as I think you're suggesting, we should be looking for the incoming fee to cover the outgoing.

I would love to see them both here next season, having said that.

If Zouma signs then he's the first name on the team sheet after the way he ended last season.

Mina is the back up right now and this is a huge season for him to really step up after an injury ravaged and out of sorts first season.

It's Mina that has to break up Keane and Zouma.

The truth about Everton target Kurt Zouma 'handing in Chelsea transfer request'

It's also a bit silly to make that comparison with the Man Utd players. As a partnership, they haven't had time to get to know each other, let alone gel.

Zouma was poor at Stoke the previous season and almost average for the first half of last season with us. His improvement might say a lot about Silva's coaching as everyone knows Mark Hughes is a shite manger and coach.

Keane had a bad debut season and for reasons later revealed, foot injury etc, was in hindsight maybe not that bad, maybe even excellent. Mina... who knows yet... but, in the games he did play, he performed well.

If he was a great player, Chelsea wouldn't have sent him out on loan

Plan B looks very good to me if we can develop Mason and Mina by giving them game time and some patience. I'm really happy with 7th next season as long as we see improvements without loan players, have a good cup run, and establish a couple of homegrown lads rather than try to buy success in an unsustainable way.

I believe that the club is determined to be successful by organic growth – not speculative borrowed money. I fully support them in this. Does it denigrate us in any way compared with Liverpool? No, it gives us the moral high ground as we won't be financed by past glory, without any Singapore Blues.

Our future is incremental improvement from now on not a big leap into the top 6 and a fall back out again.

In the meantime move on to the next player on the transfer wish list. Silva stated there are other alternatives and other positions to strengthen so stop waiting for for Chelsea and move on.

Now they are saying it was fake news which most assumed was the case all along.

Regrettably Zouma is not the type to rock the boat so I think we need to move on to Plan B.

I have just seen your post and think it really unfair. I think you are taking a one sided view and If you don't mind I'd like to try to redress the balance.
I'm not here to fight Dazza's corner, he big and ugly enough to do that himself, but his opening post is as clear as the nose on your face to anybody who understands betting. He isn't worried about Zouma leaving, because he thinks we will improve anyway. As several people have noted. It couldnt be more clear.

Taking your points one by one it is clear they are all responses tohan attackss. He attacks nobody first.

I believe his response to him Bennings was OTT, but it was a response to a couple of foolish attempts to bait by Jim. First he asked Dazza to name the player who is "ten times" better. Then he puts up a make believe point about Digne and Naysmith and attributes it to him. Is that what passes for debate around here ? Did Jim even begin to understand the point ? We don't even know if Jim thinks we'll be worse off because he doesn't get round to saying.

Then there's the response to Jim Knighey. Again, Jim is the one who comes and attacks first. In my view its clear jim is spoling for a fight. In his opening paragraph (33) He goes straight for the personal insult. The next he makes accusation of "trolling. He then lmmediately demonstrates he doesn't even understand the point either

Jim's claims that he simply wants to come on and discuss. Everton with Evertonians really do ring hollow when you read how he re-introduces himself to this site. I thought DH's response to him was OTT. At least I did initially. I then read post 92. It came across as hate filled. There is clearly old issues here. Nobody would get that wound up about a sort post regarding a bet. He talks about how many people address Dazza. But he doesn't mention how many agree or are simply questioning his posts. Only a few are hostile.

The notion that this post was some sort of a wind up didn't surface until 64 posts in. Some latched on immediately.

I didn't see A Walkers post as hostile. I thought it was done with humour. I also think the response was done in jest.

Anyway Chris. I hope my post offers a little more balance. I know Darren so I hope any slight biase offsets a little of yours. Nobody needs to tell me what a spikey old fucker he can be. But some of the posts on this thread remind me of the guy who repeatedly prodded the bear. Then cried "foul" when he got the response he went looking for.

My trains about to pull in. So I'll leave you with this thought: Zouma will not be here next season, at east he's unlikely to be. Yet not one single person had come on here and said they think we wouldn't get more points.

One more question. This meeting in he Excelsior. I'm up for the game. Is it just for TW regulars. or can anyone come ?

Hope you make it to the Excelsior.

I'm looking forward to meeting you and your Tony. I was amazed at all the old Cardinal Godfrey boys posting on a recent thread. Hope a few of them turn up too.

Brian

I think that was always the point. The bet could never be conditional. It was always going to be with or without the big man. I think JK misunderstood that and lead a few people over a cliff talking about variables. IMO. Using the word "stopper" didnt warm people to what was essentially a positive point.

Anyway; Thats been done to death. Look forward to sharing a pint (or two) and discussing how we are going to fix this club and challenge the reds.

I'll keep an eye out for updates