Gbamin facing extended lay-off

Sunday, 25 August, 2019 148comments  |  Jump to last

Updated Everton fear that Jean-Philippe Gbamin will be out for up to three months after suffering a serious thigh injury in training.

The Ivorian midfielder, a £23m acquisition from Mainz over the summer, was expected to be in the squad for last evening's match at Aston Villa but did not travel.

Marco Silva said after the 2-0 defeat that Gbamin's injury is “more serious than we'd expected and [he will be absent for] some weeks. In some hours our medical staff will put out a statement."

A statement on Everton's website initially said that Gbamin "sustained a significant injury to his right quadriceps muscle. The 23-year-old will undergo further investigation with the Club's medical staff at USM Finch Farm this week."

That was followed by reports from media sources like Paul Joyce of The Times suggesting that Gbamin could be out for as long as three months with the thigh injury but that further scans will be carried out this week before a final diagnosis is made.

Update: Everton confirmed on Tuesday 27 August that the midfielder damaged a quadricep tendon and was expected to be out for at least eight weeks.

The club's statement indicated that they will be consulting experts in Europe for possible advice on how best to rehabilitate the injury.  



Reader Comments (148)

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Si Smith
1 Posted 24/08/2019 at 01:31:21
After today's shambles, we need him back asap.

One person who should worry is Tom Davies, if Gbamin and Delph are both out injured, and Gomes, Sigurdsson and Schneiderlin can be as bad as they were today, and he still can't get the nod, then he should worry. In fact... he should simply move clubs!!

Michael Kenrick
2 Posted 24/08/2019 at 01:54:24
Stating the obvious: This is very, very bad news.

Jim Bennings
3 Posted 24/08/2019 at 06:02:52
So...

Gomes and Sigurdsson were gash but let's not make out that bringing on that all-scoring all-creating Tom Davies will solve anyone's problems, it's just more like for like, just dressed as a blonde ponytail.

Laurie Hartley
4 Posted 24/08/2019 at 06:20:12
I am shaking my head. Bad luck for this lad and for us.
Sam Hoare
5 Posted 24/08/2019 at 07:54:50
This sounds serious, saw some estimates of 8-12 weeks. This is extremely bad. And means much more Schniederlin I fear.

And Tom Davies is not the answer as he is an 8 and not a 6. Or has been previously.

Hopefully Delph can return soon but more games with Gomes and Schneiderlin starting in midfield will go like last night, I fear. Way too susceptible to the break, as we saw for both Villa goals.

Mike Keating
6 Posted 24/08/2019 at 10:17:24
If he performed that poorly at Barca, little wonder that Gomes got the white hanky treatment off the fans.

As for Walcott, every time he comes on, you think he might just create the form that made him a sensation but he's just crap. Very expensive crap.

Crazy to think that his annual wage packet would keep Bury in the league.

At least ‘barndoor' Barlow didn't cost us £20m.

Jack Convery
7 Posted 24/08/2019 at 11:41:36
Silvas' luck with injuries is worrying me - lucky generals is what Napoleon wanted and he knew a thing or two.
Hugh Jenkins
8 Posted 24/08/2019 at 11:41:42
Jim (3) - Tom Davies may not be the solution - but he does play with passion and looks as though he cares.

Ultimately he may not be good enough, but I think most Evertonians will forgive him that, if he looks like he is trying and looks like he cares.

If, at the moment, he is the only alternative then I think most Evertonians will find that acceptable in the face of watching two highly paid and skilful players going out onto the park and playing as if they don't give a damn one way or the other.

Hugh Jenkins
9 Posted 24/08/2019 at 11:44:38
Jack (7) - Aye, Everton's luck as much as Silva's. Over recent years, we have other brought them in injured and had to wait for them to recover and get fit before they could play, or they have been injured in pre-season or soon after and we have had to wait for them to recover etc.

When is our luck going to change?

Chris Gould
10 Posted 24/08/2019 at 11:47:27
Bloody hell, to think some were wondering why Silva was looking to buy Doucoure right at the end of the window. We don't have enough quality central midfielders or centre-backs.

We really are missing Gueye and Zouma. Not only was Gueye our best midfielder, he also rarely got injured. We look weak and ineffectual in midfield without him.

The stage is set for Delph to take the bull by the horns and shake some life into this team. Let's see some of the winner's mentality and leadership skills that he is said to possess. Thankfully, he can also pass the ball pretty well. Something Gomes has failed to do thus far this season.

John Keating
11 Posted 24/08/2019 at 11:58:16
Jim @3,

You may well be right and Davies is not the answer at present under these circumstances. However, I'd sooner have a gash Davies at least trying than a gash Gomes, Sigurdsson and Schneiderlin not giving a damn.

Like most, I'd sooner have a lesser player trying than a so-called superstar strolling around.

Derek Knox
12 Posted 24/08/2019 at 12:10:06
John K, hear, hear, I honestly don't know what Tom Davies has done, or hasn't done, but Silva almost point blank refuses to play him.

I know often local lads are sometimes hailed to be better than they actually are, but while I don't hail Tom a superstar, at least he gives his all, and it shows, when he puts that shirt on.

That's a hell of a lot more than Gomes or Schneiderlin showed last night, and there were a few others who fell into that category too.

John Keating
13 Posted 24/08/2019 at 13:34:20
Derek,

I must admit at half time I fully expected Davies to come on for Gomes as he was woeful first half. I actually expected 3 changes to be honest. Not only was Davies not brought on but Gomes stayed on the full game! I thought that was incredible.

As mentioned, Davies is not the greatest most gifted player we have but last night Grealish and McGinn were overpowering us in midfield. We showed nothing against them. At least Davies would have showed fight.

John Pickles
14 Posted 24/08/2019 at 14:42:59
This pact with the Devil that the Dark Side have made, is it too late to sign up? Because I'm sick and tired of all the crappy luck Everton get. No doubt we'll get a defensive midfielder back then lose Kean or someone else valuable for the rest of the season.
Kieran Kinsella
15 Posted 24/08/2019 at 14:55:28
Hugh Jenkins 8,

I would and you would but if ToffeeWeb is anything to go by there are a lot of people intent on hammering Davies regardless of his attitude, talent or anything else.

Putting "talent" to one side, it's obvious to me that Kenny and Davies have that winning mentality. You can see it in there faces, their desire, their despair. Much different attitude to the paycheck jokers.

James Stewart
16 Posted 24/08/2019 at 20:03:21
Awful news. Davies should be a shoo-in now but this is Silva so don't expect common sense to prevail.

Schneiderlin was a complete crab against Villa and Gomes seems to be regressing at an alarming speed. At least Davies will attempt a forward pass.

Schneiderlin and Gomes should never play together again after the Villa embarrassment. Watching them make languid sideways passes to each other at 1-0 down with time ticking away was mindlessly absurd.

Kase Chow
17 Posted 24/08/2019 at 22:50:04
Bad news. Really bad news

The midfield of Schneiderlin, Gomes and Siggy is so 1 paced it’s true

To be honest, each is a decent player but as part of a team of midfielders. Played together it just doesn’t work

Last night was a game made for Zaha. Such a shame we never got him

I also wish we’d been able to replace the awful Schneiderlin. He was so so bad and never really wanted the ball

Gomes was taking the ball off the centre backs 3 yards away from them and playing ineffectual passes or giving it away. What’s happened to him?

We miss Gaye so so much and now we’re stuck. Gutted

That was crap last night

Shaun McGough
18 Posted 24/08/2019 at 23:13:26
Tom Davies to step up. How Silva picks Schneiderlin ahead of him is a joke.
Jim Bennings
19 Posted 25/08/2019 at 07:12:49
Have all they keyboard experts actually stopped for one minute to think that the management team see Tom Davies in training all week and he might actually be bloody terrible or perhaps his attitude is any better than Schneiderlin?

Tom Davies and Calvert-Lewin, two players who if they were playing for Sheffield United and we were linked with them, the reaction would be “what the hell do we want them two for?”

People pick out Schneiderlin but he wasn't any worse that the others on Friday night, he sat deep and does what he does, his form improved at the end of last season and while he's absolutely no answer to our current problems let's be honest here about things, from what we have seen of Tom Davies this last 18 months it's a total myth about this “energy” he gives us.

The lad is too slow for the pace of the league, not physically intimidating and has no real creativity about, he runs around a lot just basically covering ground but never actually doing that much in terms of stopping anything or making anything happen.

Schneiderlin might be cack, but let's not pretend we have David bloody Silva sitting on the bench eh?

Darren Hind
20 Posted 25/08/2019 at 07:34:29
You really do not give any thought to your posts Jim Bennings.

You argue that Davies isn't in the team because the coaching staff see him all week and they know better. . Then you argue Calvert-Lewin is a League One striker even though the coaching staff see him every week and keep selecting him.

"Key board warriors"? Are those the posters who come on making complete toby's of themselves by informing "fools" we will not win any more games at Christmas, or are they the ones who were proven to be correct when they told them (you) that they (you) were talking utter shite?

Jim Bennings
21 Posted 25/08/2019 at 08:41:18
Darren

DCL is in the team every week because of gross incompetence on the management teams behalf for over 18 months trying to find a suitable damn striker that can be either

1) A threat to the opposition

2) Actually score a goal

3) Be ready to start games

Moise Kean I believe will be at least number 3 on that list and from what we seen, he’s a more mobile threat

Mike Doyle
22 Posted 25/08/2019 at 08:49:46
Jim. Your post reminds me of a comment Bradley Wiggins made. He remarked that he had worked with lots of cyclists who looked/performed great in training, but didn't deliver on the big stage despite their obvious ability.

The issue probably boils down to mentality – the type that Ball, Reid, Watson, Cahill et all had in spades, but many of our current squad seem to lack.

Martin Berry
23 Posted 25/08/2019 at 08:52:14
I think we all need to take a deep breath. Gomes was not good but he was coming back from an ankle injury, it's early season and we know ho good he can be.

Schneiderlin is a defensive midfielder he does not do pretty things.

As for Tom Davies, potentially a top midfielder, just needs a bit of time.

It will be interesting to see how Marco sets us up as 4-3-3 is being mentioned as his preferred option now he has Delph as the left footer in the pack.

Alexander Murphy
24 Posted 25/08/2019 at 09:08:36
Thank heavens than J-P Gbamin wasn't tainted by Friday nights debacle. However that does leave a gaping hole in Marco's remedy cabinet with J-P now unavailable for a number of weeks.

Schneiderlin is a dreadfully annoying player for Me, he has all the talent and either wilfully chooses not to deploy it, or just doesn't give a shite. Seems to be a man with no pride whatsoever.

As bloody dreadful as Andre Gomes was on Friday (and wasn't he?) his face was etched with dismay for all to see. Never has the prideless Schneiderlin once shown any sign of emotion or shame.

Young Tom Davies could possibly have run around and disrupted Villa's midfield. Disrupted. What would he have done with the ball should it have fallen his way ? Not much I suspect. Though even that could have been infinitely preferable to the misery of Gomes and the apathy of Schneiderlin.

You'll note that I've omitted to mention Gylfi. As I've commented on another forum, had we been playing hide-and-seek on Friday night then Siggurdson would have rated 10/10 because he was fuckin' invisible.

Perhaps J-P's enforced layoff may work to his advantage in the longer term. Meaning that by the time he is fit enough to return that MS will have had a Carabao Cup run out (run out not a defeat I hope) and an international break to kickstart our rapidly self dismantling season.

Hopefully, J-P will return fit and strong enough to add some fire and passion to a resurgent Everton.

How the fuck on God's green acre does the same side that finished last season so solidly turn into this desperately unfunny Royal Blue & White re-enactment of "The Keystone Kops" ?

Jerome Shields
25 Posted 25/08/2019 at 09:39:25
Hope it's a quick and successful recovery. I wish him well.
Jim Bennings
26 Posted 25/08/2019 at 10:20:07
Alexander at 24,

To be honest we had a bit of a purple patch (mainly on home turf) at the end of last season but spreading the whole 2018-19 campaign out it was pretty much underwhelming.

Two limp Cup defeats, losses away to the likes of Brighton, Southampton, Fulham and Newcastle, a 6-2 home thrashing to Spurs and a midwinter crisis.

We were very good at home to Manchester United and Arsenal, and West Ham away but the others we were mainly okay, nothing more.

Justin Doone
27 Posted 25/08/2019 at 13:57:09
It's really bad on the new lad. Trying to fit in and make a good impression and then pick up a fairly minor injury that rules you out for 6+ weeks.

Wish him a speedy recovery because Silvas preference for Schnides is really disappointing.

Delph is an injury prone player. Him being out injured in no surprise. It's like having Darren Gibson back. A good player but can't do much from the treatment room other than get to know the physios well.

As for Tom Davies he'll only get better by playing competitive games. If Silva isn't going to play him he needs a loan move and prove Silva wrong / await Silvas sacking. He's head, shoulders and pony tail superior to Schnides in every way.

Trevor Peers
28 Posted 25/08/2019 at 14:26:23
Saying Davies will get better if he plays more competitive games is a myth, he burst on to the scene, did well initially, then after a lot of games, 75 in all, lost his way. His standard of play went backwards despite being made captain at one stage.
Minik Hansen
29 Posted 25/08/2019 at 15:49:35
Our current playing midfield has time to shine now, knowing it's on them and time to step up and shine. The whole team need a backing from us niw more than ever, if we are to make any progress up the table. Come on you blues.
Peter Knight
30 Posted 25/08/2019 at 19:36:31
I thought Davies played well when he came on against Watford with 10 men. He was made Captain against Arsenal and we played well and had a little run after that.

He was dropped for Man Utd game for a while brought back and played very well against Man City was captain against Watford and then I believe only played about 26 minutes for the rest of the season.

Marco Silver should not be treating young players like this, plays Gomes who was sent off at Fulham, slows the game down goes sideways and backwards, give fouls away in dangerous positions. He has also been poor in the first 3 games of the season.

Darren Hind
31 Posted 25/08/2019 at 19:48:32
Jim Bennings @31

I don't think there is another poster who chases himself up his own arse quite as frequently as you do.

First you say Davies isn't getting in ahead of the current passengers in midfield because the management and coaching staff see him every day.

When challenged as to why Calvert-Lewin (the guy you regularly insist is a league one player ) still gets in when the coaching staff see him every day too. . You claim it's because they have no choice because the hierarchy have not replaced Lukaku.

Is this a good time to remind you, that in their attempts to solve the goal crisis. The club has spent £200M on players like Walcott, Tosun, Sigurdsson, Richarlison, Iwobi and Kean, to name a few. The coaching staff see them every day too and guess what? Your "League One" player is still starting every game.


Sam Hoare
32 Posted 25/08/2019 at 23:03:00
Gbamin is apparently out for 3 months! That is a MASSIVE blow. Expect to see Gomes' defensive frailties exposed further unless perhaps Delph can really step up and stay fit.

Central midfield has been an issues for a long time in my eyes and with this injury will continue to be. Seriously lacking athleticism in the centre though maybe a 4-3-3 switch could help.

Stephen Davies
33 Posted 25/08/2019 at 23:14:27
Sam #32,

Where has that info come from?

Ron Marr
34 Posted 25/08/2019 at 23:30:17
BBC McNulty
Brian Williams
35 Posted 25/08/2019 at 23:35:51
A "serious thigh injury" is most likely to be a quadricep tear, a strain wouldn't be that serious. A quad tear could keep him out for around 6 weeks.

If 12 weeks is expected, then it's a really fucking bad one and will be more than one torn quad, could be a partial rupture. I had an over 90% rupture of my quads and was off work for six months and never played competitively again. Hope to fuck it's not that.

Feel for the lad and feel for us too. When will we get some good luck, ffs?

Kunal Desai
36 Posted 25/08/2019 at 23:43:41
This is unfortunate but yet again, we have a summer of going into a campaign short on numbers, Zoumas replacement should have been done and dusted, rather than dithering about, will he, won't he join then appearing to be desperate on deadline with loan bids for Man Utd defenders, we've not had any creativity in the middle for a number of years and we were always going to need another striker.

All it takes is one or two long term injuries and the squad becomes weakened due to the strength in depth.

Nicholas Ryan
37 Posted 26/08/2019 at 00:51:45
Jim [19]… I'm a bit confused by your 'What if they were playing for Sheffield United. ' remarks, as Calvert-Lewin WAS INDEED playing for Sheffield United, when we bought him!
Daniel A Johnson
38 Posted 26/08/2019 at 03:46:52
Surely this must now be the opportunity for Davies to have an extended run in the team?

Gueye gone and his replacement long-term injured – Davies must now get minutes on the pitch surely?

Nick Swallow
39 Posted 26/08/2019 at 05:48:41
Thats what happens when you play 90 mins of Prem football with only 1 weeks training after your summer break
Alan J Thompson
40 Posted 26/08/2019 at 07:38:42
If one was trying to be facetious you might say this is what happens when you put your all in at training which we know the Manager likes or he won't play you, even if he does say he sees you as the present and future of the club. Not sure how that is applied if you get sent home early from training but does anyone know if Gbamin might have run into the reserve keeper?
Clive Rogers
41 Posted 26/08/2019 at 08:14:18
Tom Davies's strength is not in front of the back four where he lacks pace and tackling ability, but centre mid where he is good at driving the team forward (when on form).

Without Gbamin it is going to be difficult to select the right combination in midfield of defensive and attacking players. A big headache for Marco Silva.

Kevin Prytherch
42 Posted 26/08/2019 at 08:16:40
Why couldn’t we, especially against teams such as Palace and Villa who just sit back and defend, play Gomes deeper in the “6” role and play Davies as the more advanced central midfielder.

Hopefully Gomes will be allowed more time on the ball and Davies can play more of his natural game receiving the ball and driving forward.

Eddie Dunn
43 Posted 26/08/2019 at 08:20:49
The problem with losing Gana and having to play Schneiderlin and Gomes is obviously the lack of pace and mobility of the two statuesque posers. This is compounded by the loss of Zouma behind them leaving a pathway through the middle asking for quick-footed nimble players to dance through.

We need Delph back asap as the current set-up is a disaster waiting to happen. I would suggest bringing Sigurdsson back in place of one of the others but he is also tall and relatively slow. Surely Davies has to be worth a shout or is Baningame fit?

Joe McMahon
44 Posted 26/08/2019 at 08:25:09
Why does this always happen to us. Just like Mina last year. The curse on Goodison continues.
Michael Lynch
45 Posted 26/08/2019 at 08:45:30
It's very unfortunate. We lost gueye, filled the position with a lad who looked like he had potential rather than ready-to-go ability, and now we've lost him as well. We've also lost Zouma and haven't replaced him at all, which means we're one injury away from having a central defender crisis, as well as a midfield crisis. We already have a striker crisis, as nobody seems capable of scoring. Even Lossl is injured, so we're one injury away from a goalkeeping crisis! And all this after just three games, in which we've looked somewhere between dreadful and incompetent.

Not the best start to the season.

Terry Farrell
46 Posted 26/08/2019 at 09:11:35
Gbamin looks competent but in reality after 1 start and 1 subs appearance is still finding his way so let's not over egg his spell on the side lines. The big loss is Gueye who did the work of 2 men week in week out.
Its painfully obvious we are and will miss him BIG TIME.
Sam Hoare
47 Posted 26/08/2019 at 09:41:06
Kevin@42 I don’t think Gomes at 6 suits his abilities. Yes he is a decent distributor of the long ball but his defensive positioning and tackling is pretty poor.

Gomes should be a box to box player as he has good energy (when fit), can carry the ball quite well, shield the ball under pressure and link play quickly and relatively effectively.

Maybe he could play 6 against a limited team but against anyone with pace and a good counter we’d be in trouble as he is so easily bypassed as we saw against Villa and Watford.

I like Gomes but I really wish we’d bought a more mobile, rounded midfielder instead. If we had Doucore instead of Gomes I’d be feeling less distraught at Gbamins long lay-off.

Peter Gorman
48 Posted 26/08/2019 at 09:50:10
The Davies hate is just taking the piss at this stage. I am one of those who absolutely hated Schneiderlin at his nadir but gave him props and will continue to do so whenever his standards improve.

That said, there is no way I'd prefer him to Davies, a player who has PLENTY of time to develop into the player some of us think he could be, whereas with Schneiderlin you'll get competent at best. If he can be bothered.

So many rush to point out the decline of young Davies the last couple of seasons whilst seemingly oblivious to the utter funk of crud we saw from far more experienced professionals under Koeman, Allardyce and even Silva.

With Davies, sometimes you wonder whether the best he can hope for is Gomes to continue to flop so that the histrionic fan base can switch their vitriol onto the next whipping boy.

Chris Gould
49 Posted 26/08/2019 at 10:23:16
Davies cannot play Schneiderlin's role. He doesn't tackle well, doesn't have Schneiderlin's positional discipline, and doesn't pass well. Schneiderlin was not the problem on Friday, Gomes was. Gomes was awful in every aspect of his game. Defensively he is dreadful and opposition players just skip past him. He's more likely to give away a free-kick than tackle.

It has to be Delph and Schneiderlin with Gomes on the bench. Anyone who plays as badly as Gomes did needs a timeout. Unless he is still struggling with his ankle, it was an unacceptable display.

I have high hopes for Delph. I think he's come here to lead this side, and as long as he's fit, we may see an upturn in form with his introduction.

Paul Kennedy
50 Posted 26/08/2019 at 10:31:12
It is a special talent we seem to have at Everton: buy new players then have them injured, Mina last season along with Gomes. This season, Delph now Gbamin, Do we actually have anyone at the club who checks the fitness of the people we buy as I seem to recall Mina, Gomes and Delph have all got previous with extended absence through injury! Makes you hanker for the days of really fit players we bought like Andy van der Meyde!
Anthony Flack
51 Posted 26/08/2019 at 10:34:59
Gomes is a good player and as an earlier poster stated he knew he had a bad game, the concern was painted all over his face. Siggy is a good player but is badly off form and is Richarlison - both terrible at Villa. Bernard wasn’t up to much and DCL ran. Around a lot, but his effort was not going to add up to much with the other players having a nightmare.

I think there is an element of overanalysis going on - Davies is also a good player, and capable of playing in the centre, as is Delph (if fit)

So what is th point I am trying to make - not sure really; but I am not about to call the Samaritans because of the Gbamin injury.. we need Siggy and Richarlison to play well, and almost certainly need to play Kean instead of DCL.

John Raftery
52 Posted 26/08/2019 at 10:55:10
Nick (39) Correct. This injury was not bad luck. It happened because the manager, desperate to inject some energy into the midfield, took a risk with a player who ideally would have been eased into the team over a period of several weeks.
Brian Harrison
53 Posted 26/08/2019 at 10:55:12
Strange that both Sigurdsson and Gomes weren't involved in summer tournaments so were well rested, and both had a full pre season. Yet so far both are way off last seasons form, maybe with Richarlison playing in the Copa America has an excuse for not starting the season well.

I thought it was puzzling that with both Gbamin and Delph unavailable for the Villa game, and Gomes having a nightmare that still Silva chose to leave Davies on the bench. I said in another thread allowing Gueye to leave was madness, none of our midfield players get close to the amount of ground he covered in a game. He allowed Gomes and Sigurdsson to play and I think he led the stats in the Premier League for most tackles and most kilometeres covered in games.

I don't care that PSG was his dream move he still had 3 years left on his contract. Surely if we are to improve as a club if you let one of your most influential players leave then you arent going to push for a top 6 place. I guess maybe when PSG came in for him in Jan maybe he was promised if they come back in August you can go provided the price is right.

Conor McCourt
54 Posted 26/08/2019 at 11:23:26
Brian Harrison 53- totally agree and if the club felt they can't keep him they then have to make themselves stronger.

I believe Silva tried to do this by seeking Gbamin, Doucoure and Delph to replace Schneiderlin Mac and Gueye so that although you can't replace the individual per se, you make the unit stronger.

I think they knew Gbamin would need time and banked on Delph to navigate the short term deficiency however this has spectacularly backfired and left us up shit creek.

John Rafferty 52- so an injury picked up in a Tuesday training session was the result of him playing in 2 games for his new club after 2 weeks training before the first of the games. Fantasist stuff.

Richard Mason
55 Posted 26/08/2019 at 11:46:58
Seems to be big issues with injuries so early into season.

I'd love to see 4-3-3 on Wednesday night. Delph, Gomes and Davies with Iwobi Kean and Richarlison in front. Best place to test it out.

John Raftery
56 Posted 26/08/2019 at 11:48:08
Conor (54) JP signed for us on 2nd August and made his debut at Palace on 10th. He had only a week’s training before that debut.
Conor McCourt
57 Posted 26/08/2019 at 12:13:14
John- no doubt some of the same faces blaming this injury on our staff are those that will be calling to play Iwobi from the start in the next match yet he only had a weeks training.

Gomes didn't train all week between the Palace and Watford games but sometimes you have to play when not 100 per cent fit.

I am no expert in injuries but this guy was fit just not match fit. He plays 2 games no worries then on the Tuesday picks up an injury in training. How you know for sure that this has anything to coaching, his fitness, the medical team or just bad luck is beyond me?

Had the player not played those 2 games would it not be logical to argue that he could just as easily picked up the injury in training regardless? So what happened Delph then?

Just sounds conspiracy to me

Nick Swallow
58 Posted 26/08/2019 at 12:45:10
Conor 57, most of the players came back and went to Switzerland where they did double sessions for 8 or 9 days I think, then played 45 mins, 60 mins, 75 mins then 90 mins then had a full week back at Finch Farm.

This is where you build that base fitness for the season. Gomes had the base fitness from that block of pre-season training so the week he didn't train wasn't so bad.

Gbamin had 1 week of training, no double sessions or a gradual match time increase over 4/5 games – just straight into Premier League football from a foreign league with 1 week of training after his summer holidays... Conspiracy or bad sports science?

Chris Gould
59 Posted 26/08/2019 at 12:57:55
Just read a few medical journals online about quadriceps tears and athletes.

A brief synopsis:

A partial tear of the quads may still require surgery. A full tear will obviously definitely require surgery. Any kind of tear of the quadriceps is a very worrying injury for an athlete. There are no guarantees that he will ever reach his pre-injury fitness levels. He may regain full strength and movement, but sadly be more likely to have recurring quadriceps problems. Much like hamstrings injuries have wrecked many careers, quads injuries can be just as debilitating long term.

This is very bad news for the lad, and us.

John Raftery
60 Posted 26/08/2019 at 13:00:36
Conor (57) Of course nobody knows for sure. It is possible that the fitness regime at his new club proved too much for a player not accustomed to it. What I am saying is that JP playing a full game against Watford was a risk. Silva may have had in mind to replace him in the last 15 minutes but for the injury to Digne.

A player may well get through one game but break down either in training or the next game. The main point of pre-season training is to reduce the risk of subsequent injury by building up fitness gradually over a period of a few weeks. Hence the usual pre-season pattern sees players train for several days, play 45 minutes of a friendly, train some more, play 60 minutes of a friendly and so on.

The risk of muscle strains and tears can never be removed completely as the Delph injury illustrates.

Those arguing that Iwobi and Kean should have started any of the games so far fail to understand just how physically demanding the games are in the Premier League. I would however like to see Iwobi and Kean start at Lincoln with a view to pulling them off after an hour with us sitting comfortably on a 3-0 lead! That is probably fantasist stuff!

Jay Wood
[BRZ]

61 Posted 26/08/2019 at 13:11:00
John and Nick.

As far as I am aware there is nothing in the public domain detailing how the injury occurred.

Add to that the lad played in the AFCON in July and had some downtime.

It is reasonable to presume from that he was not 'under cooked' fitness wise as you both simply and that he himself maintained his fitness levels as he switched clubs.

Without knowing the details, like Conor I conclude your comments on his injury to be fanciful speculation.

Of deeper concern is the gravity of the injury and how he recovers from it.

Paul Tran
62 Posted 26/08/2019 at 13:57:52
I don't know how Gbamin got injured in training, but regarding whether he/Kean were ready to play, I noticed in their presser that Gbamin said he wouldn't be ready for the first game and Kean unequivocally said he was. Players tend to be busting a gut to play, so Gbamin's words spoke volumes to me.

On that basis I was surprised & concerned to see Gbamin on the pitch against Palace.

My circumstantial, partial evidence is pointing the finger at Silva on this one, with another one at Schneiderlin for his daft red card at Palace.

Justin Doone
63 Posted 26/08/2019 at 14:03:26
Read it was a quad tear picked up in training. It happens no matter how careful you are, some people are just more susceptible to them than others.

I had many injuries and I can't prove it but I think my quad tear was due to tiredness, not warming up effectively (because of tiredness) and early on went full on sprinting to get to the ball.

Injury lasted 4 weeks and another 3 weeks physio to build strength back up. It was one of the better injuries but frustrating because I always felt 80% until I tried anything more than a walk. Stairs hurt but a good indicator of recovery.

He should be fine but like hamstrings the following 3 months can be telling. If it goes again that's more than half the season gone.

John Raftery
64 Posted 26/08/2019 at 14:04:39
Assuming Gbamin was ‘fit’ when he passed the fitness test prior to his signing and that there were no underlying issues it is reasonable to assume the injury was caused by muscle fatigue. It is also reasonable to assume this was caused by suddenly having to increase his training and playing load.
Tony Everan
65 Posted 26/08/2019 at 14:10:05
Chris#59

Makes uncomfortable reading, I am hoping the tear is not too severe and is fixable. The lad will get the latest and best medical help possible. Coupled with first class rehab and physio he will get every chance to get back to full fitness.

Bobby Mallon
66 Posted 26/08/2019 at 14:24:40
I don’t get why they are getting injured in training not good
Jerome Shields
67 Posted 26/08/2019 at 14:25:16
I am disappointed Gbamin is out for so long, worse luck.

Looks like it will be Schneiderlin in his shell covering the back four. Davies will get to run out, so Gomes can get himself sorted.

Lucky we have Iowbi. I wonder a lot about Sigurdsson performance against Aston Villa, he was poor. Think we will see more of Iowbi, with Bernard taking up a more creative role.

The forward line I might are well join everyone else trying to sort it out, since I now have help in the local sauna. I expected Calvert Lewin to be first choice, but was talking to a young Everton fan and he thinks Tosun could do as good as him in that role and lay off the ball with more guile. Tosun does work hard when playing.

This would, maybe , help Richarlison and Kean. Tosun may also interchange better with Bernard on the edge of the box, than Sigurdsson. He thought Calvert-Lewin was better coming on as a sub.

My new mate had all the Everton gear and now knows about Toffeeweb.

Jay #61

I agree with you regarding the injury. On his first interview, Gbamin came across as fitness aware. The injury is unfortunate and I wish him a good recovery.

Kieran Kinsella
68 Posted 26/08/2019 at 14:26:15
Bad luck. But some reactions on here are baffling. Against Palace, ToffeeWebers were comparing him to Kroldrup. One appearance later and we desperately need him asap.
Sean Patton
69 Posted 26/08/2019 at 14:26:44
Given his two performances so far it's hardly a great loss it only seems worse as Delph is currently unavailable and the manager bizarrely prefers Schneiderlin to Davies. Hopefully Delph is fit soon and the Frenchman gets dropped so that when Gbamin has fully recovered he can slowly be intergrated into the team which is what should have happened in the first place.
Bobby Mallon
70 Posted 26/08/2019 at 14:26:46
Paul Tran @62, have to agree there.
Jay Wood
[BRZ]

71 Posted 26/08/2019 at 14:35:54
John @ 64.

Read Nick's original post @ 39 and your own reply @ 52.

You both go beyond 'reasonable presumption' and leap to explicitly blaming the management for imposing a training and playing regime upon him beyond his current fitness levels.

You do so without any knowledge of just how fit he was or how the injury occurred.

As is clearly evident in the many videos of Finch Farm training, in keeping with the very best practices of elite sports clubs, Everton constantly monitors its players with all manner of cutting edge sports science.

Injuries are part and parcel of life, never mind professional sport.

His injury is not necessarily evidence of negligent practices as both of you continue to not only imply but are being very explicit about without having a shred of evidence to support your claims.

Jay Harris
72 Posted 26/08/2019 at 14:40:59
Jay,
Apparently he was out for 3 weeks last Xmas with a thigh strain.

Hope we havent got another Jams McCarthy situation.

On another note I wish supporters would give players a chance. I am probably Schneiderlin's biggest critic but I thought he played well on Friday and to read some of the posters on here you would think he singlehandedly caused the defeat.

We all advocated patience before the season started and we are 3 games in and people are jumping up and down looking to sack Silva get rid of certain players etc.

Friday was not great but I think Man U and Spurs supporters would have more to worry about getting beaten at home by 2 of the relegation candidates.

All this doom and gloom needs converting into belief and support,

Michael Lynch
73 Posted 26/08/2019 at 14:49:18
It's not about whether he's the next Peter Reid or the next Per Krøldrup, it's about the fact that, of our summer signings, only Kean hasn't picked up an injury yet. Gomes did his ankle, Delph tripped over a peanut, Gbamin did his quad doing knees up mother brown at the club disco, dunno what happened to Lössl but he's in the sick bay with nursey stroking his brow, what the fuck is going on?

To be fair Iwobi hasn't gone down with a bruised fetlock yet, but it's like we have a one crock out, one crock in policy.

Jay Wood
[BRZ]

74 Posted 26/08/2019 at 15:01:00
I agree with you Jay on posters not evaluating players and their performances on a game by game basis.

I wrote in the match day thread it is a tendency for many posters to have favourites they will champion and players they will not see any merit in, regardless of how well or badly players from either category play.

Schneiderlin is not a player who has ever convinced me, but I am discerning enough to acknowledge when he plays well.

As way of example, I maintain on Friday night he was the best of our midfielders over 90 minutes, and yet his performance is heavily criticized whilst the truly woeful Gomes is excused by many.

Friday was unquestionably hugely frustrating and disappointing, but the levels of despondency just three games into the season are - as you say - disproportionate, all the more so in comparison to the results of other top six teams you mention.

Dave Abrahams
75 Posted 26/08/2019 at 15:02:17
However Gbamin's injury was caused it leaves Everton short in midfield, I was looking forward to the lad gradually getting fully fit, he looked like a very decent footballer, in the Watford game, to me, so. I hope the injury is not as serious as it seems. He looked like he would have added some much needed pace to that very pedestrian midfield.

Hopefully Delph will be back this week to add his work rate, endeavour and skill to his very much needed vocal inspiration to a very quiet Everton team, he is needed as soon as possible.

Denis Richardson
76 Posted 26/08/2019 at 15:11:47
I’m not in the Tom Davies love or hate camp and would just like to see the lad do well.

Genuine question for TWs who watch a lot more games than I do. What exactly is TDs best position?

He’s made 75 first team appearances (so not a novice) but is only 21 so has a lot of time ahead to develop. Into what however I don’t know.

When I’ve watched him play he comes across as a bit of a jack of all trades but master of none in CM. He can tackle and pass a bit but isn’t great at either. And he’s shown some flashes of being able to drive forward from CM and provide an attacking option but this happens very rarely. I’m not sure how much the managers instructions play a part but genuinely interested to know what people think his best position is /should be? Also should the club start trying to mould him into a certain position? Right now I really can’t tell what he’s supposed to be/do when he comes on.

Re Gbamins injury. It’s a blow but no point moaning as every club has injuries. If we can’t cover then it’s the clubs fault for not having a balanced squad. It’s not like we haven’t had enough time to sign players.

Conor McCourt
77 Posted 26/08/2019 at 15:15:28
Michael Lynch, that made me giggle!! We really need to fucking check out what's been asked in these initiation ceremonies.
Jay Harris
78 Posted 26/08/2019 at 15:17:11
Dave,
the worrying thing is he was out for 3 weeks last xmas with a similar injury and given some of the other posters comments about the quad injuries they have suffered this may well be a weak spot and may limit him permanently.

I thought it was interesting that Silva came out almost immediately and said it looked serious, something he has never done with other injury reports before.

Jay Harris
79 Posted 26/08/2019 at 15:24:05
Jay,
I agree with you totally about Gomes too.

He had a hand in both their goals. The first one giving away a stupid free-kick and then getting caught out of position and on the second one getting turned inside out by El Ghazi.

I was shocked Silva didn't hook him instead of letting him suffer for 90 minutes. He was by far the worst player on the pitch on Friday.

Let's hope we see an improvement all round this week.

Conor McCourt
80 Posted 26/08/2019 at 15:28:17
I think Denis you answered your own question there. I like you see him as an all rounder and he reminds me a little of Jimmy Bullock but without the finishing ability.

I know a lot are surprised we haven't seen him more this season but it doesn't me. I feel the manager sees him as the alternative to Gomes though they obviously have different qualities.

Had we been level or in front on Friday I would imagine he would have replaced Andre but because we needed a goal he went with others instead. I don't believe this injury will help his cause for a starting role.

John Raftery
81 Posted 26/08/2019 at 15:28:36
Jay (71) I am not explicitly or implicitly blaming the management. Circumstances, i.e. the injury to Gomes at Palace and the suspension of Schneiderlin for the Watford match, persuaded Silva to take a risk with him. Unfortunately that decision has backfired to the detriment of both player and the squad.

With the benefit of the wisdom which hindsight confers on us all Silva will now know it was the wrong call. Managers make calls. That is what they are paid to do. Some they get right. Some they get wrong. What we don’t know is the nature of the advice, if any, he received from his sports science people. In not blaming him for the decision to play JP I assume he was given data and information which suggested the risk was worth taking.

If there is a lesson to be learned it may be concerning the player’s post match recovery after the Watford game. That will be for the fitness team to analyse and assess.

It is only my perception but I actually think the training and fitness regime has improved compared with what we had several years ago. I have no stats to support this but there do not appear to be as many hamstring and calf strains as there used to be in Roberto’s tenure when the likes of Mirallas, McCarthy and Deulofeu seemed to be breaking down every few weeks. The fact that Delph and Gbamin have succumbed to strains so early is not an indictment of the regime. More probably it is an indication they were below par when they arrived at Finch Farm. Once players have adjusted to the training load at Finch Farm they appear to be better equipped to cope with the Premier League.

Peter Neilson
82 Posted 26/08/2019 at 15:38:00
Gbamin's injury stats show 3 lots of "thigh problems" in the past couple of seasons at Mainz with his recovery being 7, 49 and 18 days. His last injury appears to have been for 21 days Aug/Sept 2018 with pulled hamstring at the adductors (which I think is also in the thigh). In total 221 days injured from 15/16 on-wards for various issues. I hope he recovers quickly and well.
Kieran Kinsella
84 Posted 26/08/2019 at 15:46:15
John 81

I agree. Under Martinez as I recall there were a lot of "soft tissue" injuries. And Martinez and Willie Donachie's boy disagreed over training/treatments. I haven't sensed a trend under Silva with injuries.

Last year, Jags and Baines both seemed to be out a lot with niggly stuff but I suspect that it was because they are old and when they're not playing regularly their bodies are more prone to stress with stop/start action.

Mina had his metatarsal but that was an issue before he arrived here. For the most part, the regulars: Pickford, Sigurdsson, Richarlison, Bernard, Gomes etc had a clean bill of health all season.

I suspect that Silva has been including Adeniran, Gibson and Gordon in first team training so they're not totally thrown in at the deep end if we have a major injury crisis. Obviously midfield is looking pretty ropey now but we still have Davies waiting in the wings before we have to draft in Adeniran.

Jay Wood
[BRZ]

85 Posted 26/08/2019 at 16:02:28
The Tom Davies situation is an interesting one.

Last season, as he did with Lookman, Silva talked up Tom a lot, even making him skip for a string of games. He again gave him the captain's arm band at times this pre-season and continued to speak well of him.

I get quite annoyed how poor people's recall of Tom's contribution was when he broke into the first team under Koeman. Too many just lazily recall his AMAZING goal in the 4-0 tanking of City and claim he has never done anything since.

BOLLOCKS! He was a mainstay of the side in the 2nd half of that season, often being selected ahead of both Gueye and Schneiderlin when all were available.

He romped away with the young player of the year award that season and goal of the season.

Yes, his 2nd season - under 3 different managers, diverse tactics and dysfunctional football by MUCH more senior players - was more challenging.

As last season progressed he dropped further down the pecking order but when called on was not a hapless lightweight as some like to paint him.

Does he have great pace? No. Is he clumsy in the tackle? Yes. Does his first touch let him down at times and the ball gets away from him? Yes.

But he also has the heart of a lion, plays with his head up and looks to play forward, be it with the ball at his feet or one touch play and pass.

My enduring memory of Tom is when he came on as a 17 year old sub away to Chelsea in a 5-0 whopping where far more senior players were being humiliated.

He BELONGED. Not overawed in the least, he didn't hide. Again and again and again he sought and received the ball in a packed midfield full of Chelsea star performers (they were eventual champions), instantly controlled and passed the ball on rapidly as good players do. In the short time he was on, he was head and shoulders Everton's best player in that humiliation.

Now Tom is clearly his own man and has a distinct personality. You don't have his dress sense without having the character to carry it off in public as he does! Or get dropped off at training as kissing his mum goodbye in front of his peers as he did. I love that aspect of the lad.

Injuries and poor form from nearly all our available midfielders is a concern. But I rather hope it also represents an opportunity for Tom Davies to once again be integrated into the team and be allowed to bloom.

As for his best position I would say that is currently occupied by Gomes. Tom is not best as an out an out defensive or attacking midfielder, but rather an in-betweeny, linking and transitioning the team from defence to attack.

Trevor Peers
86 Posted 26/08/2019 at 16:16:24
But Jay does he fit into any of Silva's preferred systems? The answer would be no.
Jack Convery
87 Posted 26/08/2019 at 16:18:05
What is it with all these soft tissue injuries - we've been here before haven't we when Bobby was in charge and he sacked the physio. Makes me wonder if they warn up properly and warm down the right way too. Stek in goal then unless Real MAdrid buy him first !
Jay Wood
[BRZ]

88 Posted 26/08/2019 at 16:22:58
John @ 81.

"I am not explicitly or implicitly blaming the management."

In reply to Nick's own explicit post @ 39 ("That's what happens when you play 90 mins of Prem football with only 1 weeks training after your summer break") your verbatim words @ 52 were:

"Nick (39) Correct. This injury was not bad luck. It happened because the manager, desperate to inject some energy into the midfield, took a risk with a player who ideally would have been eased into the team over a period of several weeks."

I guess we differ on the interpretation of 'explicit'.

I acknowledge you now retrospectively moderate your earlier posts and align yourself more with the counters I offered to yours and Nick's original posts.

Jay Wood
[BRZ]

89 Posted 26/08/2019 at 16:26:01
Trevor the same question has also been legitimately asked about both Gomes and Sigurdsson.

Both a conundrum and enigma for Silva to solve.

Conor McCourt
90 Posted 26/08/2019 at 16:29:56
Jay I just don't think the manager trusts him in a 2 unless he has adequate protection. I could see him change formations if he's felt Siggy has had enough chances and play a 3 with Tom and Andre in advance of Schneiderlin.

However despite Andre's horror show on Friday I don't think he will feel he can afford to drop Gomes as the midfield is reliant on him now.

Raymond Fox
92 Posted 26/08/2019 at 16:55:04
That's tough for him and us, some players are more injury-prone than average to state the obvious. I hope that doesn't apply to him because I had/have high hopes. for the lad. I'm willing to bet he's back sooner than three months though, in almost every case they are.

I'm holding my breath that Delph is fit soon, groin injuries are a bugger to reoccur.

Paul Tran
95 Posted 26/08/2019 at 17:17:19
To me, Davies and DCL are similar cases. Both were brought into the team because either the managers didn't buy anyone else and/or the expensive purchases weren't delivering.

Both ran their socks off for the team; Davies playing really well and DCL playing the 'Giroud' role at a very early stage in their careers. Both, in my view, were over-exposed, Davies, in particular, filling in here, there and everywhere. DCL doing an unsupported thankless task.

I'm not sure anyone knows Tom's best position. I also think, like many young players, he had a dip in form after a good start.

Both would benefit from a loan spell; Davies to get regular games and a playing identity, DCL to get a slight drop in grade, some confidence and perhaps some mentoring off a more senior player. Who could he learn off in his time with us?

Unfortunately, our financial and recruitment issues mean we need them to fill in the gaps, possibly at the expense of their own careers.

I like them both as people and players. Clubs need hard-working, talented players who aren't quite top-class. DCL will never be a high-scoring striker, but he's looked better in a team that didn't isolate him. Davies will look a better player when gets games and an identity.

Not sure they're going to get that with us.

Christy Ring
96 Posted 26/08/2019 at 17:30:24
If he's out for up to 3 months, that's a huge blow, as he was a direct replacement for Gueye. (I still don't understand why we let go, such an important player for us, when he still had 2/3 years left on his contract, just because PSG, came calling.)

The club said he'll be assessed this week, so hopefully the time frame might not be as long. Regarding his lack of fitness, and the push to get him up to speed, after his appearances in the Africa Cup of Nations, how was he not fit?

Also, why has Davies been totally ignored by Silva, considering we're totally lacking pace in midfield.

Karl Meighan
97 Posted 26/08/2019 at 17:33:10
Schneiderlin didn't have a good game but was streets ahead of Gomes, Sigurdsson and Richarlison to name 3 for a start, but eh it's easy to criticise him. I will also add that Sigurdsson and Richarlison were poor against Watford as well, I'm guessing that was Schneiderlin's fault as well?
Jay Harris
98 Posted 26/08/2019 at 17:35:28
I really like Tom Davies and DCL. They are both fine footballers. Tom in particular winning PFA player of the month at 19 and young player of the year from the supporters.

DCL runs his socks off and is a good footballer. The only thing is he isn't a number 9 particularly a number 9 in a 4-3-2-1 system where his lack of goals is particularly important.

Tom on the other hand is more of a link up player in the Siggy role so both of their strengths have been negated in the positions they have been asked to play.

The other concern I have about Tom is his lifestyle. He always has eyes in the back of his head and bags that you would expect from a 50 year old. He gives the impression he is on the nest all night or playing video games. Either way he needs to take more care of himself.

Darren Hind
99 Posted 26/08/2019 at 17:53:09
Paul T,

Both have been ill-used by each manager who came in. Davies has played all over the place. There cannot be many 21-year-olds who have played as many games in different positions as him as him – ever!

Calver-Lewin didn't even get a game at centre-forward under Koeman in his first season. He has started just over 50 in all competitions, scoring 17 times, but on at least 15 of those occasions, he has been asked to play on the left or on the right. People know that, but they put up distorted stats which include 1- or 2-minute cameos...

Like Tom Davies, he has had to play out of position because the straight-talking hard men (Koeman and Allardyce) were gutless fucks who didn't dare ask senior, more experienced pros to play out of position.

Let's be clear here: we have spent well over £300M on midfield players and forwards since Martinez left. We really can't say the managers have had no other choices.

Either the managers (who were roundly applauded as they spent the money) were gormless twats for selecting the young pair ahead of them... or Calvert-Lewin and Davies got in on merit because the superstars signed on the dotted, turned up and promptly got the deck chairs out.

Either way, Rhino's boys are blameless... totally blameless.

Jay Wood
[BRZ]

100 Posted 26/08/2019 at 18:08:08
Jay, whilst I was writing in praise of Tom I wondered to myself about his offield lifestyle, based on nothing more than his flamboyant dress sense (which I love! He reminds me of Johny Depp as the Mad Hatter in Tim Burton's Alice in Wonderland).

City-based Blues will pick up any gossip on the lad, but I've never heard, seen or read anything that he is a 'wrong 'un' mixing in bad company as other young Everton starlets have done.

On the contrary, Silva speaks of him constantly asking what he needs to do to improve his game and cement his place in the team.

Given the sparsity of midfield options we currently have, together with the stuttering form of all to date, if he doesn't feature much from the start or the bench in our upcoming games it really doesn't augur well for his Everton future.

Stephen Brown
101 Posted 26/08/2019 at 18:18:24
Why do I allow myself to become optimistic every year?! I really should know better by now !

-New midfielder out for 3 months!
-Two best goal scorers forgotten how to score
-4 points from expected 9
- wolves without a win, at Goodison this weekend and a banana skin cup tie ahead!

Dave Williams
102 Posted 26/08/2019 at 18:33:27
It's a physical game- training has to prepare players to be able to compete and injuries are a fact of life- unfortunate but its pointless chucking accusations around about the training staff or Silva being at fault.

Davies will not let us down and if he plays in his proper position he will add some bite and energy. Morgan is ok on his own but can't be paired with someone who will indulge in 3-yard passing like Gomes did against Villa. Iwobi can play as part of a midfield three. Is the new RB able to play in midfield by the way?

It would be interesting to see if Adeniran could cope? Is Baines able to play there?

I think the problem at Villa was Gomes and Sigurdsson being so poor to the extent we were almost playing with nine men. If Silva sorts those two out and gets Richarlison firing, we might yet avoid relegation (joking!!).

Dermot Byrne
103 Posted 26/08/2019 at 18:42:30
Stephen #101: keep your optimism.

I sometimes think we are like guests on an ocean liner during a storm. According to each wave that hits the boat we run back and forth across the deck.

Some blame the ship, others the captain and there are even those who conjure up ideas of the 😈 across the park.

My way of maintaining my optimism and sanity after enjoyable visits to TW is ignore those are are certain they, and often them alone, know.

They rarely do and will batter your optimism out of you or at least call you a bad fan for seeing something positive!

I have a feeling we will beat Wolves if we change a rather staid and unproductive forward line and introduce some folk like Davies to also add a bit of fizz.

And we can all then run to the other side of the ship!


Dave Williams
104 Posted 26/08/2019 at 19:26:27
Jay- his uncle Alan also had bags under his eyes in his teens and always looked shattered. The ball would then go into the box and Alan was quicker than anyone and in it went!
Gavin Johnson
105 Posted 26/08/2019 at 19:45:00
After Friday's shit show I think everyone is in agreement that the midfield triangle is too slow. I'm not as critical of Schneiderlin as a lot of posters on TW but I think he is the one who needs to make way for Delph or Davies. I never want to see him partnered with Gomes again.

If we have to go down that road again we need to at least have injection of pace and play Iwobi instead of Sigurdsson in the formation Silva as always wanted to play, a 4-3-3.

That way we can try and emulate a certain other club and have a fluid front 3. At the moment Richarlison and Bernard are playing too wide. In a 4-3-3 they're be able to come further inside and interchange with Kean. Is Silva brave enough to drop Sigurdsson though?!

Ian Lloyd
106 Posted 26/08/2019 at 19:50:32
Typical of Everton
Paul Tran
107 Posted 26/08/2019 at 20:08:45
Darren #90, I was scrolling up, saw the last paragraph and knew it was you!

You're right and it's interesting that we're saying the same things with a slightly different perspective.

Funny how many people go on about us not getting players from the lower divisions forget about the likes of DCL & Gueye and local lads like Tom & Jonjoe.

In the midst of all the praise Shane Lavery rightly got for his excellent goal and performance for Linfield last week, did anyone notice the injury time Panenka-style penalty from one Magaye Guaye?

Ray Roche
108 Posted 26/08/2019 at 20:09:49
Jay@100

Jay, Davies idea of a holiday last year was backpacking around Australia staying in hostels with like minded young people. NOT your Lukaku/Pogba partying holiday ending up in Police custody. An ordinary grounded lad.

Jay Wood
[BRZ]

109 Posted 26/08/2019 at 20:19:03
Good to hear, Ray.

Further affirmation and enhancement of his well-grounded (but original and individual!) personality as I believed he displays.

I really, really want it to come good on the football front for Tom Davies AND whilst at Everton.

Dermot Byrne
110 Posted 26/08/2019 at 20:29:16
Feel the same re Tom but think he needs to come in with the new attackers. Think that kind of fast play suits him. May be daft and just remembering that City goal but think he would like to be part of a "cool" team. These are young guys.
Jay Harris
111 Posted 26/08/2019 at 20:33:08
Ray,

Don't get me wrong I wasn't for a minute suggesting he was partying or doing substance abuse but you don't get those bags naturally so I was inferring like a lot of young people he sat up playing internet games half the night or he had a young lady who was keeping him awake all night. LOL

Like so many of us I really like the lad and his enthusiasm and work rate and would love it to work out for him at Everton but there is obviously something holding him back in Silva's eyes.

Dermot Byrne
112 Posted 26/08/2019 at 20:42:25
Maybe we have a similar view Jay #111. He is a young lad and maybe not always the kind of adult yet that us legion of granddads demand on TW!

I still have much hope for Tom... probably same as I have hope for Calvert-Lewin.

But right now, I think DCL may need a couple of weeks off from first team. He is a bright lad and needs some quick-shot training and attitude of 'fuck it' if they miss. They won't always.

I suspect Kean has that.

Jay Harris
113 Posted 26/08/2019 at 21:08:38
I hope youre right about Kean, Dermot.

Dermot Byrne
114 Posted 26/08/2019 at 21:43:01
So do I Jay but, shock horror, I may be wrong!

But I think it is speed around him we need and quick passes, even if some go wrong.

And if they do, maybe some of us need to stay supporters!

Si Smith
115 Posted 27/08/2019 at 00:23:38
It's great this ToffeeWeb isn't it !!!

We get an injury to Gbamin, who is a new player who wasn't fully fit when the season started, yet got thrown in early due to Schneiderlin getting sent off. Many fans picked his 2 performances apart, claiming Gbamin was too slow and gave the ball away too much.

Two weeks later and Gbamin is injured, we are back to our average best of 1 win, 1 loss, 1 draw and somehow the Gbamin story turns into yet ANOTHER debate about a lad who hasn't even been given a chance this season in Tom Davies. The debate isn't one where all the blues are asking for him to be given a chance, but rather one where many take this opportunity to slam him and basically rip him apart.

I noticed one comment claiming that it's a myth that game time will make Davies a better player as he already played 70 games for us. Is that a genuine comment???? Really!!!!! Can anyone tell me anyone who didn't become better off more games?

Not that my two bobs worth can be classed as gospel but if people look at English midfielders aged 21 (like Tom is) can they name more than 3 or 4 better?

After Foden and now possibly Mount (would need to see more, but he looks talented), possibly Gibbs-White who can't get into the Wolves team and Choudhury who looks like he may play more this season for Leicester, I cant see many who people may mention.

Look at Deli Ali, an extremely talented footballer who has struggled to keep up his sky-high level once he was noticed, he hasn't quite hit his heights last season, but I'm sure he will have the spurs fans backing.

Then there is Winks also at spurs, he is 23 and he has only managed 65 games for Spurs, he was similar in stature to Davies but he has filled out a bit and seems to have become an important player to Spurs.

Ross Barkley struggled at Tom's age also, so did many others.

Again many on here are quick to shoot Davies down, that goes for Calvert-Lewin also, but I've said it before, not everyone can turn into a top world class talent, maybe both these lads are just squad players, but they have age on there side so they can develop, but in order to develop they need to be given game time, and when they are given game time they need to be backed by the clubs FANS!

That is what we are supposed to do as fans, support the lads who wear the Jersey. Yes we want top players, but the fact is Tom wasn't bought for a huge fee, he's time served from within the club, let him be allowed to take his chance, I for one am hoping he is given that chance and takes it with both hands.


Mike Gaynes
116 Posted 27/08/2019 at 00:41:07
I hope he takes it with both feet, Si!
Dave Abrahams
118 Posted 27/08/2019 at 00:50:42
Si (115), cracking post Si, backing a young lad and asking fans to give a young player backing and encouragement instead of writing him off before he has hardly started.
Jay Wood
[BRZ]

119 Posted 27/08/2019 at 01:43:02
Si @ 115.

"somehow the Gbamin story turns into yet ANOTHER debate about a lad who hasn't even been given a chance this season in Tom Davies. The debate isn't one were all the blues are asking for him to be given a chance, but rather one were many take this opportunity to slam him and basically rip him apart."

Unfair and not true of this thread Si. Do a 'find in Page' search for the word Tom in this thread. I found 39.

Other than Jim Bennings' posts that you quote in making your claims the overwhelming majority of posts and posters that mention Tom write very much in favour of him.

In this instance you are seeing and claiming something that isn't there.

Si Smith
120 Posted 27/08/2019 at 02:14:33
Jay maybe I worded it wrongly in saying MANY fans are being unfair about Tom Davies, but this particular thread is about Gbamin and by comment 5 Jim and Sam have both said Davies is not the answer.

By comment 11 he has had a few more mentions, most of which are in favour of him although most describe him as "not the answer" or "not the solution".

Then Jim is back for another Davies bashing for no real reason.

After that Trevor at 28 just completely blew my mind claiming more game wont improve Tom.

After that I decided to say my piece, but after your reply I had a further look and realised there was much more support actually being show to Tom than I gave the tread credit for.

Tbh the development of the young local lads (not just the scousers but any youngsters who earns there chance) is something I'm passionate about.

Barkley leaving the way he did killed me as he basically shit on the club, but reading some of the comments he was often picked apart, always being spoken about for the things he couldn't do, rather what what he could do.

Rom and Stonesy were the same, both spoken down about although both seemed to do ok without us.

Now we have lads Davies, Holgate, JJ Kenny, Dowell, and DCL close to the first team set up and me personally I'd like them to be supported. I appreciate that many of our fans do support them, I equally appreciate the fact that they wont be everyones proffered choices, but sometimes I feel many of our fans don't put it into proper perspective, they don't seem to realise that if Davies wasnt at the blues then we wouldn't have signed Rodri over city, instead we would be signing a couple of million pound player who wont make the grade. Same with DCL, we mustn't have had the money or the pull to take Rom back, so we looked at the available players to us and decided DCL was a better option.

Back to your post though I do appreciate that more of the posters on this thread are in favour of giving Davies his chance.

Cheers for your reply.

Danny Baily
121 Posted 27/08/2019 at 06:42:09
Schneiderlin and Davies should work fine in the middle, with Sidibé providing cover for Schneiderlin in the defensive midfield role.
Tony Everan
122 Posted 27/08/2019 at 07:13:03
Tom Davies adds some fluidity to the midfield. What we have seen against Aston Villa we have seen many many times before. Slow, laborious side ways passing. Possession in abundance, penetration and shots on target virtually non existent.

Tom loosens the whole midfield thing up. He takes strides forward and takes a bit more of a risk. Ok, he will lose the ball more often but this more postive ''looser'' play opens the game up and causes the opposition to lose their shape.

If we are persisting with a combative and deeper CF like DCL , playing Tom to counter that defensive nature of DCL makes sense . It balances things out a bit more. To play DCL and two defensive CMids is too conservative and stifles our play and goal scoring chances and goals.

Playing him has risks. But after watching static midfield performances like that at Villa something has got to change.

Above all, I think Tom has got to get more game time, with us or with whoever. He is at an age now where he is mature enough to prove he can do it. He is getting stronger and will take on board more discipline. I really rate him, always loved his enthusiasm, commitment and great engine.

There is an 'infectious' factor about such a player , a local lad , who cares. Every game means something to him . That mindset is invaluable. It rubs off on the other foreign lads. It should not be underestimated.

I would like to see Silva put some faith in him, back him. I think he would be repaid for it.

Dermot Byrne
123 Posted 27/08/2019 at 07:30:57
Link

!

Ray Smith
124 Posted 27/08/2019 at 10:05:29
I'm not an advocate for mass changes in cup games, however, Silva needs to start trusting his so-called fringe/squad players, some of which really haven't been given a chance.

Lössl if fit in goal no problem.

If he plays a back 4 no changes.

With Gbamin out Tom Davies should be a shoo-in. I'm not sure what he's done wrong. Something not quite right here?

Drop Calvert-Lewin and Walcott for Kean and Iwobi for a decent run of games.

Delph and Sidibe if fit should get 30-45 mins second half.

I'm not going to knock Gomes, but I'm sure he wasn't fit against Villa!

Then leave well alone, we don't need an early exit like most years. I suspect that Sky have chosen this match as a potential banana skin.

Conor McCourt
125 Posted 27/08/2019 at 10:24:48
Si Smith 120- It's not wrong for you to be championing Toms case but likewise it's not wrong for others to say that they feel Tom isn't the answer.

I like Tom and feel he will get plenty of opportunities over the season but it seems that on Friday night we had a clear problem with the midfield being too pedestrian, a lack of energy and because the manager didn't bring him on people seem to be angry that he's not getting a chance when it looked perfect for Toms abilities.

From my perspective I feel Silva would have brought him on had we equalised and taken Gomes off to get more legs into the midfield. However we needed a goal and despite what many of us feel about Walcott the three subs created three clear chances which at least one should have been buried.

Tom would have been the answer to get control of the game, to give us a better chance of an equaliser I'm not so sure.

So now we have an injury to Gbamin there is an increasing clamour for Tom to start. With the cup match he may well do.

For me Tom is not suited to play the holding role, his tackling is suspect and I'm not sure he has the nous or discipline to play there and as a Tom Davies fan I would prefer he get his chance when he's not on a hiding to nothing.

I am a big admirer of Gomes and I feel our game really suffers when he's not on the pitch. Even on Friday when he was disastrous he didn't hide and kept going despite his passing, decision making, tracking and shooting boots leaving him.

He had a nightmare but I feel he deserves the chance to the chance to put it right.

Siggy should be the one who should be under threat. He has had not only had three terrible games but invisible to boot. In addition a midfield three of Scneids, Tom and Andre would give both the freedom which play to both Andre and Toms strengths.

If this was the option the manager takes I would be more than happy but although Siggy definitely deserves to be dropped its still a big call as he is our biggest goal threat and he is that type of player that even on form he is either a difference maker and doesn't contribute a whole lot else.

Friday is gone so let's not let that match totally shape our thinking. We need to get the mindset of some of our players right first starting with Ricky, Siggy and Gomes as we can't afford to carry passengers if we want to win games in this league.

Ajay Gopal
126 Posted 27/08/2019 at 10:34:25
Great post, Tony (122), I totally agree. I believe Silva has erred greatly in not trusting Davies more. He is not a glamorous name - but he has not been given a consistent enough run of games and a consistent role (IMO) to prove his worth. Whenever he has come on, he is under pressure (the 1st Crystal Palace game, he was the ball retainer in a 11 vs 10 situation) to prove his worth. Whereas the more 'glam' players like Gomes, Siggy, Schneiderlin, even Gbamin have been afforded the luxury to make mistakes, to the extent of having whole 'stinkers', without repercussions. Everton's midfield has been too soft in the 1st 3 games, it needs to be stiffened up with leaders and fighters. Davies and Delph should form the spine of the team, with one of Gomes/Siggy playing slightly advanced as the playmaker. The forward line can be 3 from Bernard, Charlie, Kean, Iwobi, DCL, Tosun.
Paul A Smith
127 Posted 27/08/2019 at 11:31:09
This is why you don't rush players with no pre season.< Maybe he could have played Davies in the first 2 games but the injury seems to have come too soon.

It was plain obvious these players needed time to get fit. Delph Kean and Iwobi included. Lincoln is a good game to get the near ready players fitter.

Christy Ring
128 Posted 27/08/2019 at 13:42:40
Silva has to play Davies tomorrow night, as our midfield is slow and pedestrian. He has continually picked Schneiderlin, Wallcott and Sigurdsson, when their performances have been poor, why is he continously ignoring Davies, and listening to his waffle after the Villa game, was like listening to Martinez.
Jay Wood
[BRZ]

129 Posted 27/08/2019 at 14:27:28
On the subject of football management philosophies and the playing of young players, there is a good piece on the BBC today about Jordi Cryuff, son of the footballing giant, Johann.

Now of course Cryuff snr is credited with establishing Barcelona's style of football and influencing Pep Guardiola's coaching.

These quotes by Jordi are the standouts from the interview and possibly most relevant to Everton's situation and the ongoing discussion about our style of play and use of young players. He describes his father as:

"My father always had unbelievable strength, which I don't think 99.9% of people in football have now...my father was well known as a coach who wanted to give opportunities to young players.

"I find myself thinking about my dad a lot when I am thinking about certain decisions now I'm a manager. When I do that I usually go for the young player or the most offensive player!"

I find that quite appealing. Link to the article below:

Link

James Marshall
130 Posted 27/08/2019 at 15:37:49
Why is he ignoring Davies? Because he often plays like a schoolboy. Prone to errors, and lacks the vision of a more experienced pro. Seems like a decent kid and clearly he's 'one of our own', but that doesn't always cut the mustard.

He should probably play against Lincoln though. Poor luck Gbamin getting injured.

Kevin Prytherch
131 Posted 27/08/2019 at 16:15:09
James 130 - as opposed to Schneiderlin who is prone to a lack of effort, prone to errors, lacks vision and hides from the ball when playing in a midfield pairing.

Or opposed to Sigurdsson who is prone to invisibility and lacks vision.

Or opposed to Gomes, who is prone to errors, the occasional rush of blood and lacks vision.

Paul Goodchild
132 Posted 27/08/2019 at 16:46:25
Very disappointing. He looked slightly off the pace against Watford, but I saw enough to make me think he was an excellent signing for us.

I thought we were very strong in the central midfield department until Friday's shambles and this bad news. Seriously worried now about our options in this area.

James Marshall
133 Posted 27/08/2019 at 16:50:36
Kevin@131, Sigurdsson and Gomes do not lack vision in my view.

Errors yes, all players are prone to errors aren't they, due to being human (on some level). If you prefer Davies over those others, then I can't argue with you, I was merely offering up a suggestion as to why he doesn't get picked by the manager.

I would suggest Silva doesn't trust Davies over others in the squad.

Alan McGuffog
134 Posted 27/08/2019 at 17:33:07
Be amazed if we see him until 2020. Still, he'll be like a new signing
Kevin Prytherch
135 Posted 27/08/2019 at 17:37:52
James - I wouldn’t pick him over Gomes, was just pointing out that all our midfielders are lacking in certain areas. We seem to place less emphasis on expensive players having a run of bad games, or making individual errors, or behaving like inexperienced pros than we do our youngsters.
Mike Gaynes
136 Posted 27/08/2019 at 17:56:55
Dermot #123, further study has revealed that optimists on TW have a shorter lifespan, not longer.
Dermot Byrne
137 Posted 27/08/2019 at 18:10:19
Mike: that so called evidence flies in the face of my epistemic position.

The minute you start relying on such evidence, you may no longer be an optimist and therefore die early

As for those early deaths before they had been on TW!

We reach the same conclusion!

Paul Tran
139 Posted 27/08/2019 at 18:34:42
For what it's worth, Mike & Dermot, I'm still an optimist. More so when he starts Kean & Iwobi.
Dermot Byrne
140 Posted 27/08/2019 at 18:56:26
Mr Tran: aside from optimism and philosophical standpoints, I really agree with your comment re those players.

Sometimes I wonder is the boss told to protect assets.

But my real side says all will be great!

Mike Gaynes
141 Posted 27/08/2019 at 19:04:00
Hey, I'm always an optimist, Paul and Dermot. Every day I get to watch the Blues play is a good day. Of course, some turn out better than others, but there's always pleasure in it, and always something wonderful and unexpected.

Like just this past Friday I actually got to see Morgan Schneiderlin make a great pass. Now who would have believed that? More likely to see a yeti or a unicorn. But it really happened.

And just a moment ago I got to learn a new word from Dermot: epistemic. Never a day here where I don't come away a little more educated.

Can't beat that!

Dermot Byrne
142 Posted 27/08/2019 at 19:12:24
Googled it Mike as I understood the (flawed) concept of philosophical certainly, I was damned if I could recall the name for it!

I cannot tell you what Joe Bloggs said 4 years ago that now contradicts his current position but like you, I share you enjoyment and have hope, not misery.

C-O-Y-B!

Mike Gaynes
143 Posted 27/08/2019 at 19:28:13
Dermot, I propose we combine the words into one:

Optipistemic.

It means you're philosophically certain we're gonna beat Lincoln tomorrow. Works for me.

So who's this Joe Bloggs? New signing? Guess he's just a bang average player, eh?

Jack Convery
144 Posted 27/08/2019 at 21:12:50
Reports saying he did it kicking a ball - if that's true then this is a major injury ( tear / rupture ) and more than likely will need surgery to sort it out. Lets hope he is back for Christmas - November would be a real bonus.
Mike Gaynes
145 Posted 27/08/2019 at 21:35:03
Jack #144, surgery would most likely be required only if the quadriceps tendon were to be ruptured or badly torn. The club statement identified it as an "injury" to the tendon. That and the 3-month time frame would seem to indicate a smaller tear rather than a full-scale rupture. So unless we hear further (worse) news this week, my guess would be no surgery.

It's a pretty rare injury, and it's the downside of a powerful physique. He might have kicked the ground or followed through with such force that his thigh muscles literally overpowered the tendon. Happens to weightlifters sometimes doing quad extensions and dead lifts.

This is serious stuff -- on a par with a torn Achilles.

Karen Mason
146 Posted 27/08/2019 at 22:11:59
Wow, some of you guys ( n girls) on here really do have major mood swings! Perhaps some of you would benefit from HRT treatment! And so many, so quick to condemn players, club, & manager. I understand in life, that some people are glass half empty & some glass half full but WTF,??? It was a bad day at the office against Villa. Gomez was having a mare, (as did most of the team,) but his frustration with himself was clear to see. Not strolling around not caring, as some on here have said. We are 3 games into the season. I think total condemnation is a little premature.
Minik Hansen
147 Posted 28/08/2019 at 01:13:04
Karen, thank you. Hopefully the cup game will change the focus a bit, and bring more belief to the next PL game. Everybody will be up for it anyways, as they are the ones that we're gonna fight to be ahead them this season.
Si Smith
148 Posted 28/08/2019 at 01:20:02
Connor 125;
Appreciate your response mate, agree with what you are saying also, but to be completely honest I'm not saying Tom will solve our midfield problems myself, what I am saying is the thread is on Gbamin, and somehow some of the post use it as an excuse to heckle Davies.

Our biggest problem is Gana has gone, but that is that and he has gone for good. Schneiderlin hasn't really filled anyone with confidence over the past few years but he is the only senior holding midfielder, our manager said he isn't for sale and he looks to be giving him a chance.

For me Davies is unfortunate in that his best roll imo is the box to box midfielder, the roll that when your winning it gets praised, but when you lose becomes questionable.

Michael Essien was one of the first to play this roll in the prem, as he was part of a Jose Mourinho team that had a 3 man midfield. Makalele played holding (Schneiderlin), Essien played box to box doing less of the tackling but more of the running, and Lampard banged goals. If you hit 20 goals from midfield, your safe. Siggy plays that for us, clearly not with Lampard's numbers, but with a fair 13 goals and a handful of assists, meaning at our level (7th to 9th), that counts as successful. Davies plays the roll of not the holder, not the scorer, but the kind of guy who needs to get to a stage were he is a 6 or 7 at most things, a bit like Henderson for the shite. Gomes plays this roll for us, he is neither the assist master, goal scorer or the Kante of our side, but he is a very good player so its difficult for Tom to displace him. For me Tom shouldn't start over Gomes, but when Gomes performs like he did v Villa, I honestly cant see how Davies isn't given ago. You also have Silva saying Tom likes the number 10 roll, Siggy is a talented lad but could he be anymore absent from the first 3 games !

My point goes all the way back to comment 1, which was my comment.

If Siggy and Gomes play how they currently are doing, Delph and Gbamin are both out injured, and Schneiderlin is stupid enough to get 2 yellow cards on his first showing, then how will Tom break into this team.


It needs to go one of a few ways to be fair to the lad;
1. Play him, even if it's slightly out of position.
2. Loan him out and allow him valuable experience to break into our side.
3. Sell him because you simply do not rate him.

He will never be 'the answer' if he is never given a chance to become the answer, it's like the Lookman situation, every player needs a fair run to prove there worth, not 10 minutes a month.

The answer to Gana leaving was to buy Kante as he is the only other footballer on the planet with Gana's numbers in terms of stats, but the fact is we don't have the resources or the pull to buy Kante so we have bought Gbamin (who may very well turn out to be the answer), play Schneiderlin who wasn't the answer the past few years, despite being in his peak years, or blood a youngster like Davies or Beningeme. Davies seems the logical choice as Silva has made the lad captain before now, were as he has let Beningeme leave on loan, and never given him a sniff at the first team.

I just feel a few of the ToffeeWebbers need a reality check, they need to realise were we are at and accept the fact that players like Davies, JJ Kenny and DCL are here to stay, they are the newest versions of Leon Osman and Tony Hibbert in being a core part of the set up, and saving us on having to buying players like Mcgeady, Klassen and so on as expensive flops who never got near Osman in a blue shirt, or players like Cuco Martina who is taking millions of pounds a year out of our club when we could easily do without him, giving his previous game time to lads like Kenny, Holgate or Callum Connolly.

Keeping the young lads around the squad saves millions in transfers and allows us to spend bigger on players.

Id bet signing Kean this window was massively helped by DCL and his ability to play in the first team, had Silva not trusted him then he would have needed to spend the Kean money on 2 forwards as it's clear he doesn't want Tosun or Niasse.

The youth system and the recruitment of young promising footballers should be used as the lifeblood of the club, we need to nurture the talent we find or develop from a young age at finch farm, and use it to bulk up our squad. If Davies never becomes a Frank Lampard then let's hope he becomes a Leon Osman, or a Mark Noble, a player who represents his club to the best of his ability, and sees off a lot of competition for his slot within the squad.

Anyways long winded I know, possibly off my initial point too, but I genuinely feel we need to back the youngsters much more at Everton, every now and then one becomes a super star, just go and look at Spurs now with Harry Kane, I doubt many of there fans foreseen him becoming what he is today when he was sat on Leicester's bench in the championship a few years ago, managing just 3 goals in 11 appearances at the tender age of 20.

Si Cooper
149 Posted 28/08/2019 at 02:02:39
Si Smith, I think now you have linked Tom Davies to Essien, Winks and Noble but I don't see the particular similarities in their respective playing styles. I would say they are all quicker and harder to knock off the ball than Tom. I think somebody mentioned Jimmy Bullard and that seems much closer to the mark to me. Problem is that although Bullard was a good pro I don't think he'd make it at a top four club which is what we are hopefully aspiring to.

I really hope Tom can make it but he has some apparently natural weaknesses to work on. I presume he is doing everything the fitness guys have identified for him but it is difficult to know from distance whether he is taking it on himself to do a bit extra for himself. Elsewhere Tom has been lauded for his normality in backpacking in Australia. Simply put, he is not a normal 21-year-old. He is someone who has a shot at (relative) greatness. I would think he'd have plenty of time to broaden his cultural horizons after his football career and could have chosen to have a couple of weeks full rest and relaxation and then put in a couple of extra weeks in the gym or on the track before getting together with everyone else for the squad stuff.

Of course I'm speculating but at the moment it does seem that something is holding the coaching staff from using him on match days. He will most likely gain some strength and extra pace naturally in the next couple of years but he may be able to speed that process up a bit. I want him to succeed for his own benefit; I want him to do it ASAP for the benefit of the club.

Si Smith
150 Posted 28/08/2019 at 10:12:10
Si Cooper, clearly you have not read my posts at all.

I've not likened Davies to any of them players.

I did say Winks is a young English player who is only just breaking into a spurs side at 23.

I did say both Essien, Henderson, and Gomes play a roll (box to box) that in my opinion is suited to Davies.

I did say that players like Noble and our own Leon Osman are servants of there clubs who have never been top top draw, but have served the clubs well, saving them millions.

I watch football all the time mate, only a moron would put Essien and all action midfielder with multiple honours as a comparison to Tom Davies, a young Evertonian who isn't quite sure of his preferred position and still has to develop physically. My only reason to mention Essien was to say he played the box to box roll excellently.

I am not going to take the time to explain my points again, if you disagree then that is fair enough, but I have responded to both Jay, and Connor discussing my points, its difficult to be able to do the same when you send comments putting words into my mouth over comparisons.

One point I will put to you though mate is you compare Davies to Bullard, and yes he never made it at a top four side, but there are players of a certain level in every winning squad who are premiership level, but not at a level were the start week in week out for a top side.

Nicky Butt, Phil Neville, John o'shea and wes Brown will be good examples of that (although please note I am not saying any of them resemble Tom Davies playing style!!), they were all a big part in a hugely successful man u squad. My point being all came through the man u academy, and all could have been replaced by players who were better than them, yet Ferguson kept them players through there whole careers due to the fact the had the man u DNA in there bones by coming through the academy, this might be a good model to follow due to its success.

Conor McCourt
151 Posted 28/08/2019 at 10:29:11
Si Smith I totally agree with you about the club needing to give youth a chance and when we signed Koeman to replace Martinez I knew what was to follow.

Thankfully the club has appointed Brands and hopefully we will soon get a lot more players breaking in from the youth ranks.

Likewise I take your point about Lookman and I don't feel he was handled well by Silva last season and I was gutted he left when we still have the likes of Walcott as our fourth winger. Not only this but I feel he is actually best in the Siggy role and was never tried there.

I think we think similarly Si with the only difference is that I feel Tom needs to play in a 3 as a box to box or in the Gomes role in a 2. He was tried in the Siggy role last year but he doesn't have the toolset for that role whether he likes playing there or not.

I feel the Davies issue is a red herring and many TW need to point to a saviour to explain where we went wrong and suddenly after Villa Tom is it.

The problem is we are playing Wolves next in the league and they aren't as dynamic in the middle as Villa but have serious quality so I would like to see Scheids,Gomes and Iwobi as the 3 in that game.

Si Smith
152 Posted 28/08/2019 at 11:48:43
Conor I could not agree more in your assessment of Davies in the roll as a box to box player mate, that is exactly what I see him as.
Si Cooper
153 Posted 28/08/2019 at 16:56:32
Si Smith, I said you linked Tom Davies to all those players, which you did and to others I didn't feel the need to ask why? I'm struggling to see why those three readily support your insistence for Tom to be getting game time at the moment or else he needs to move on. The same role, attitude and age spread across three different players doesn't really amount to much.

To me it's much more credible to find a player who more closely resembles our Tom in all aspects of athleticism, ability, attitude and age who really made the position their own and see how old they were when they really became established, even if it was mainly as a simple cog in the machine.

I think Tom Davies has a future at Everton if he strengthens some aspects of his play. At the moment he is back up only (you don't simply hook a midfielder like Gomes who is having a mare but still desperately trying unless you are sure he won't find that moment of real quality unless you want to knock his confidence) but that is no disgrace and no reason to look to go elsewhere.

Si Smith
154 Posted 28/08/2019 at 21:31:17
Cheers for the reply anyways Si.

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