Gbamin facing extended lay-off

One person who should worry is Tom Davies, if Gbamin and Delph are both out injured, and Gomes, Sigurdsson and Schneiderlin can be as bad as they were today, and he still can't get the nod, then he should worry. In fact... he should simply move clubs!!

Gomes and Sigurdsson were gash but let's not make out that bringing on that all-scoring all-creating Tom Davies will solve anyone's problems, it's just more like for like, just dressed as a blonde ponytail.

And Tom Davies is not the answer as he is an 8 and not a 6. Or has been previously.

Hopefully Delph can return soon but more games with Gomes and Schneiderlin starting in midfield will go like last night, I fear. Way too susceptible to the break, as we saw for both Villa goals.

As for Walcott, every time he comes on, you think he might just create the form that made him a sensation but he's just crap. Very expensive crap.

Crazy to think that his annual wage packet would keep Bury in the league.

At least ‘barndoor' Barlow didn't cost us £20m.

Ultimately he may not be good enough, but I think most Evertonians will forgive him that, if he looks like he is trying and looks like he cares.

If, at the moment, he is the only alternative then I think most Evertonians will find that acceptable in the face of watching two highly paid and skilful players going out onto the park and playing as if they don't give a damn one way or the other.

When is our luck going to change?

We really are missing Gueye and Zouma. Not only was Gueye our best midfielder, he also rarely got injured. We look weak and ineffectual in midfield without him.

The stage is set for Delph to take the bull by the horns and shake some life into this team. Let's see some of the winner's mentality and leadership skills that he is said to possess. Thankfully, he can also pass the ball pretty well. Something Gomes has failed to do thus far this season.

You may well be right and Davies is not the answer at present under these circumstances. However, I'd sooner have a gash Davies at least trying than a gash Gomes, Sigurdsson and Schneiderlin not giving a damn.

Like most, I'd sooner have a lesser player trying than a so-called superstar strolling around.

I know often local lads are sometimes hailed to be better than they actually are, but while I don't hail Tom a superstar, at least he gives his all, and it shows, when he puts that shirt on.

That's a hell of a lot more than Gomes or Schneiderlin showed last night, and there were a few others who fell into that category too.

I must admit at half time I fully expected Davies to come on for Gomes as he was woeful first half. I actually expected 3 changes to be honest. Not only was Davies not brought on but Gomes stayed on the full game! I thought that was incredible.

As mentioned, Davies is not the greatest most gifted player we have but last night Grealish and McGinn were overpowering us in midfield. We showed nothing against them. At least Davies would have showed fight.

I would and you would but if ToffeeWeb is anything to go by there are a lot of people intent on hammering Davies regardless of his attitude, talent or anything else.

Putting "talent" to one side, it's obvious to me that Kenny and Davies have that winning mentality. You can see it in there faces, their desire, their despair. Much different attitude to the paycheck jokers.

Schneiderlin was a complete crab against Villa and Gomes seems to be regressing at an alarming speed. At least Davies will attempt a forward pass.

Schneiderlin and Gomes should never play together again after the Villa embarrassment. Watching them make languid sideways passes to each other at 1-0 down with time ticking away was mindlessly absurd.

The midfield of Schneiderlin, Gomes and Siggy is so 1 paced it’s true

To be honest, each is a decent player but as part of a team of midfielders. Played together it just doesn’t work

Last night was a game made for Zaha. Such a shame we never got him

I also wish we’d been able to replace the awful Schneiderlin. He was so so bad and never really wanted the ball

Gomes was taking the ball off the centre backs 3 yards away from them and playing ineffectual passes or giving it away. What’s happened to him?

We miss Gaye so so much and now we’re stuck. Gutted

That was crap last night

Tom Davies and Calvert-Lewin, two players who if they were playing for Sheffield United and we were linked with them, the reaction would be “what the hell do we want them two for?”

People pick out Schneiderlin but he wasn't any worse that the others on Friday night, he sat deep and does what he does, his form improved at the end of last season and while he's absolutely no answer to our current problems let's be honest here about things, from what we have seen of Tom Davies this last 18 months it's a total myth about this “energy” he gives us.

The lad is too slow for the pace of the league, not physically intimidating and has no real creativity about, he runs around a lot just basically covering ground but never actually doing that much in terms of stopping anything or making anything happen.

Schneiderlin might be cack, but let's not pretend we have David bloody Silva sitting on the bench eh?

You argue that Davies isn't in the team because the coaching staff see him all week and they know better. . Then you argue Calvert-Lewin is a League One striker even though the coaching staff see him every week and keep selecting him.

"Key board warriors"? Are those the posters who come on making complete toby's of themselves by informing "fools" we will not win any more games at Christmas, or are they the ones who were proven to be correct when they told them (you) that they (you) were talking utter shite?

DCL is in the team every week because of gross incompetence on the management teams behalf for over 18 months trying to find a suitable damn striker that can be either

1) A threat to the opposition

2) Actually score a goal

3) Be ready to start games

Moise Kean I believe will be at least number 3 on that list and from what we seen, he’s a more mobile threat

The issue probably boils down to mentality – the type that Ball, Reid, Watson, Cahill et all had in spades, but many of our current squad seem to lack.

Schneiderlin is a defensive midfielder he does not do pretty things.

As for Tom Davies, potentially a top midfielder, just needs a bit of time.

It will be interesting to see how Marco sets us up as 4-3-3 is being mentioned as his preferred option now he has Delph as the left footer in the pack.

Schneiderlin is a dreadfully annoying player for Me, he has all the talent and either wilfully chooses not to deploy it, or just doesn't give a shite. Seems to be a man with no pride whatsoever.

As bloody dreadful as Andre Gomes was on Friday (and wasn't he?) his face was etched with dismay for all to see. Never has the prideless Schneiderlin once shown any sign of emotion or shame.

Young Tom Davies could possibly have run around and disrupted Villa's midfield. Disrupted. What would he have done with the ball should it have fallen his way ? Not much I suspect. Though even that could have been infinitely preferable to the misery of Gomes and the apathy of Schneiderlin.

You'll note that I've omitted to mention Gylfi. As I've commented on another forum, had we been playing hide-and-seek on Friday night then Siggurdson would have rated 10/10 because he was fuckin' invisible.

Perhaps J-P's enforced layoff may work to his advantage in the longer term. Meaning that by the time he is fit enough to return that MS will have had a Carabao Cup run out (run out not a defeat I hope) and an international break to kickstart our rapidly self dismantling season.

Hopefully, J-P will return fit and strong enough to add some fire and passion to a resurgent Everton.

How the fuck on God's green acre does the same side that finished last season so solidly turn into this desperately unfunny Royal Blue & White re-enactment of "The Keystone Kops" ?

To be honest we had a bit of a purple patch (mainly on home turf) at the end of last season but spreading the whole 2018-19 campaign out it was pretty much underwhelming.

Two limp Cup defeats, losses away to the likes of Brighton, Southampton, Fulham and Newcastle, a 6-2 home thrashing to Spurs and a midwinter crisis.

We were very good at home to Manchester United and Arsenal, and West Ham away but the others we were mainly okay, nothing more.

Wish him a speedy recovery because Silvas preference for Schnides is really disappointing.

Delph is an injury prone player. Him being out injured in no surprise. It's like having Darren Gibson back. A good player but can't do much from the treatment room other than get to know the physios well.

As for Tom Davies he'll only get better by playing competitive games. If Silva isn't going to play him he needs a loan move and prove Silva wrong / await Silvas sacking. He's head, shoulders and pony tail superior to Schnides in every way.

He was dropped for Man Utd game for a while brought back and played very well against Man City was captain against Watford and then I believe only played about 26 minutes for the rest of the season.

Marco Silver should not be treating young players like this, plays Gomes who was sent off at Fulham, slows the game down goes sideways and backwards, give fouls away in dangerous positions. He has also been poor in the first 3 games of the season.

I don't think there is another poster who chases himself up his own arse quite as frequently as you do.

First you say Davies isn't getting in ahead of the current passengers in midfield because the management and coaching staff see him every day.

When challenged as to why Calvert-Lewin (the guy you regularly insist is a league one player ) still gets in when the coaching staff see him every day too. . You claim it's because they have no choice because the hierarchy have not replaced Lukaku.

Is this a good time to remind you, that in their attempts to solve the goal crisis. The club has spent £200M on players like Walcott, Tosun, Sigurdsson, Richarlison, Iwobi and Kean, to name a few. The coaching staff see them every day too and guess what? Your "League One" player is still starting every game.

Central midfield has been an issues for a long time in my eyes and with this injury will continue to be. Seriously lacking athleticism in the centre though maybe a 4-3-3 switch could help.

Where has that info come from?

If 12 weeks is expected, then it's a really fucking bad one and will be more than one torn quad, could be a partial rupture. I had an over 90% rupture of my quads and was off work for six months and never played competitively again. Hope to fuck it's not that.

Feel for the lad and feel for us too. When will we get some good luck, ffs?

All it takes is one or two long term injuries and the squad becomes weakened due to the strength in depth.

Gueye gone and his replacement long-term injured – Davies must now get minutes on the pitch surely?

Without Gbamin it is going to be difficult to select the right combination in midfield of defensive and attacking players. A big headache for Marco Silva.

Hopefully Gomes will be allowed more time on the ball and Davies can play more of his natural game receiving the ball and driving forward.

We need Delph back asap as the current set-up is a disaster waiting to happen. I would suggest bringing Sigurdsson back in place of one of the others but he is also tall and relatively slow. Surely Davies has to be worth a shout or is Baningame fit?

Not the best start to the season.

Gomes should be a box to box player as he has good energy (when fit), can carry the ball quite well, shield the ball under pressure and link play quickly and relatively effectively.

Maybe he could play 6 against a limited team but against anyone with pace and a good counter we’d be in trouble as he is so easily bypassed as we saw against Villa and Watford.

I like Gomes but I really wish we’d bought a more mobile, rounded midfielder instead. If we had Doucore instead of Gomes I’d be feeling less distraught at Gbamins long lay-off.

That said, there is no way I'd prefer him to Davies, a player who has PLENTY of time to develop into the player some of us think he could be, whereas with Schneiderlin you'll get competent at best. If he can be bothered.

So many rush to point out the decline of young Davies the last couple of seasons whilst seemingly oblivious to the utter funk of crud we saw from far more experienced professionals under Koeman, Allardyce and even Silva.

With Davies, sometimes you wonder whether the best he can hope for is Gomes to continue to flop so that the histrionic fan base can switch their vitriol onto the next whipping boy.

It has to be Delph and Schneiderlin with Gomes on the bench. Anyone who plays as badly as Gomes did needs a timeout. Unless he is still struggling with his ankle, it was an unacceptable display.

I have high hopes for Delph. I think he's come here to lead this side, and as long as he's fit, we may see an upturn in form with his introduction.

I think there is an element of overanalysis going on - Davies is also a good player, and capable of playing in the centre, as is Delph (if fit)

So what is th point I am trying to make - not sure really; but I am not about to call the Samaritans because of the Gbamin injury.. we need Siggy and Richarlison to play well, and almost certainly need to play Kean instead of DCL.

I thought it was puzzling that with both Gbamin and Delph unavailable for the Villa game, and Gomes having a nightmare that still Silva chose to leave Davies on the bench. I said in another thread allowing Gueye to leave was madness, none of our midfield players get close to the amount of ground he covered in a game. He allowed Gomes and Sigurdsson to play and I think he led the stats in the Premier League for most tackles and most kilometeres covered in games.

I don't care that PSG was his dream move he still had 3 years left on his contract. Surely if we are to improve as a club if you let one of your most influential players leave then you arent going to push for a top 6 place. I guess maybe when PSG came in for him in Jan maybe he was promised if they come back in August you can go provided the price is right.

I believe Silva tried to do this by seeking Gbamin, Doucoure and Delph to replace Schneiderlin Mac and Gueye so that although you can't replace the individual per se, you make the unit stronger.

I think they knew Gbamin would need time and banked on Delph to navigate the short term deficiency however this has spectacularly backfired and left us up shit creek.

John Rafferty 52- so an injury picked up in a Tuesday training session was the result of him playing in 2 games for his new club after 2 weeks training before the first of the games. Fantasist stuff.

I'd love to see 4-3-3 on Wednesday night. Delph, Gomes and Davies with Iwobi Kean and Richarlison in front. Best place to test it out.

Gomes didn't train all week between the Palace and Watford games but sometimes you have to play when not 100 per cent fit.

I am no expert in injuries but this guy was fit just not match fit. He plays 2 games no worries then on the Tuesday picks up an injury in training. How you know for sure that this has anything to coaching, his fitness, the medical team or just bad luck is beyond me?

Had the player not played those 2 games would it not be logical to argue that he could just as easily picked up the injury in training regardless? So what happened Delph then?

Just sounds conspiracy to me

This is where you build that base fitness for the season. Gomes had the base fitness from that block of pre-season training so the week he didn't train wasn't so bad.

Gbamin had 1 week of training, no double sessions or a gradual match time increase over 4/5 games – just straight into Premier League football from a foreign league with 1 week of training after his summer holidays... Conspiracy or bad sports science?

A brief synopsis:

A partial tear of the quads may still require surgery. A full tear will obviously definitely require surgery. Any kind of tear of the quadriceps is a very worrying injury for an athlete. There are no guarantees that he will ever reach his pre-injury fitness levels. He may regain full strength and movement, but sadly be more likely to have recurring quadriceps problems. Much like hamstrings injuries have wrecked many careers, quads injuries can be just as debilitating long term.

This is very bad news for the lad, and us.

A player may well get through one game but break down either in training or the next game. The main point of pre-season training is to reduce the risk of subsequent injury by building up fitness gradually over a period of a few weeks. Hence the usual pre-season pattern sees players train for several days, play 45 minutes of a friendly, train some more, play 60 minutes of a friendly and so on.

The risk of muscle strains and tears can never be removed completely as the Delph injury illustrates.

Those arguing that Iwobi and Kean should have started any of the games so far fail to understand just how physically demanding the games are in the Premier League. I would however like to see Iwobi and Kean start at Lincoln with a view to pulling them off after an hour with us sitting comfortably on a 3-0 lead! That is probably fantasist stuff!

As far as I am aware there is nothing in the public domain detailing how the injury occurred.

Add to that the lad played in the AFCON in July and had some downtime.

It is reasonable to presume from that he was not 'under cooked' fitness wise as you both simply and that he himself maintained his fitness levels as he switched clubs.

Without knowing the details, like Conor I conclude your comments on his injury to be fanciful speculation.

Of deeper concern is the gravity of the injury and how he recovers from it.

On that basis I was surprised & concerned to see Gbamin on the pitch against Palace.

My circumstantial, partial evidence is pointing the finger at Silva on this one, with another one at Schneiderlin for his daft red card at Palace.

I had many injuries and I can't prove it but I think my quad tear was due to tiredness, not warming up effectively (because of tiredness) and early on went full on sprinting to get to the ball.

Injury lasted 4 weeks and another 3 weeks physio to build strength back up. It was one of the better injuries but frustrating because I always felt 80% until I tried anything more than a walk. Stairs hurt but a good indicator of recovery.

He should be fine but like hamstrings the following 3 months can be telling. If it goes again that's more than half the season gone.

Makes uncomfortable reading, I am hoping the tear is not too severe and is fixable. The lad will get the latest and best medical help possible. Coupled with first class rehab and physio he will get every chance to get back to full fitness.

Looks like it will be Schneiderlin in his shell covering the back four. Davies will get to run out, so Gomes can get himself sorted.

Lucky we have Iowbi. I wonder a lot about Sigurdsson performance against Aston Villa, he was poor. Think we will see more of Iowbi, with Bernard taking up a more creative role.

The forward line I might are well join everyone else trying to sort it out, since I now have help in the local sauna. I expected Calvert Lewin to be first choice, but was talking to a young Everton fan and he thinks Tosun could do as good as him in that role and lay off the ball with more guile. Tosun does work hard when playing.

This would, maybe , help Richarlison and Kean. Tosun may also interchange better with Bernard on the edge of the box, than Sigurdsson. He thought Calvert-Lewin was better coming on as a sub.

My new mate had all the Everton gear and now knows about Toffeeweb.

Jay #61

I agree with you regarding the injury. On his first interview, Gbamin came across as fitness aware. The injury is unfortunate and I wish him a good recovery.

Read Nick's original post @ 39 and your own reply @ 52.

You both go beyond 'reasonable presumption' and leap to explicitly blaming the management for imposing a training and playing regime upon him beyond his current fitness levels.

You do so without any knowledge of just how fit he was or how the injury occurred.

As is clearly evident in the many videos of Finch Farm training, in keeping with the very best practices of elite sports clubs, Everton constantly monitors its players with all manner of cutting edge sports science.

Injuries are part and parcel of life, never mind professional sport.

His injury is not necessarily evidence of negligent practices as both of you continue to not only imply but are being very explicit about without having a shred of evidence to support your claims.

Hope we havent got another Jams McCarthy situation.

On another note I wish supporters would give players a chance. I am probably Schneiderlin's biggest critic but I thought he played well on Friday and to read some of the posters on here you would think he singlehandedly caused the defeat.

We all advocated patience before the season started and we are 3 games in and people are jumping up and down looking to sack Silva get rid of certain players etc.

Friday was not great but I think Man U and Spurs supporters would have more to worry about getting beaten at home by 2 of the relegation candidates.

All this doom and gloom needs converting into belief and support,

To be fair Iwobi hasn't gone down with a bruised fetlock yet, but it's like we have a one crock out, one crock in policy.

I wrote in the match day thread it is a tendency for many posters to have favourites they will champion and players they will not see any merit in, regardless of how well or badly players from either category play.

Schneiderlin is not a player who has ever convinced me, but I am discerning enough to acknowledge when he plays well.

As way of example, I maintain on Friday night he was the best of our midfielders over 90 minutes, and yet his performance is heavily criticized whilst the truly woeful Gomes is excused by many.

Friday was unquestionably hugely frustrating and disappointing, but the levels of despondency just three games into the season are - as you say - disproportionate, all the more so in comparison to the results of other top six teams you mention.

Hopefully Delph will be back this week to add his work rate, endeavour and skill to his very much needed vocal inspiration to a very quiet Everton team, he is needed as soon as possible.

Genuine question for TWs who watch a lot more games than I do. What exactly is TDs best position?

He’s made 75 first team appearances (so not a novice) but is only 21 so has a lot of time ahead to develop. Into what however I don’t know.

When I’ve watched him play he comes across as a bit of a jack of all trades but master of none in CM. He can tackle and pass a bit but isn’t great at either. And he’s shown some flashes of being able to drive forward from CM and provide an attacking option but this happens very rarely. I’m not sure how much the managers instructions play a part but genuinely interested to know what people think his best position is /should be? Also should the club start trying to mould him into a certain position? Right now I really can’t tell what he’s supposed to be/do when he comes on.

Re Gbamins injury. It’s a blow but no point moaning as every club has injuries. If we can’t cover then it’s the clubs fault for not having a balanced squad. It’s not like we haven’t had enough time to sign players.

I thought it was interesting that Silva came out almost immediately and said it looked serious, something he has never done with other injury reports before.

He had a hand in both their goals. The first one giving away a stupid free-kick and then getting caught out of position and on the second one getting turned inside out by El Ghazi.

I was shocked Silva didn't hook him instead of letting him suffer for 90 minutes. He was by far the worst player on the pitch on Friday.

Let's hope we see an improvement all round this week.

I know a lot are surprised we haven't seen him more this season but it doesn't me. I feel the manager sees him as the alternative to Gomes though they obviously have different qualities.

Had we been level or in front on Friday I would imagine he would have replaced Andre but because we needed a goal he went with others instead. I don't believe this injury will help his cause for a starting role.

With the benefit of the wisdom which hindsight confers on us all Silva will now know it was the wrong call. Managers make calls. That is what they are paid to do. Some they get right. Some they get wrong. What we don’t know is the nature of the advice, if any, he received from his sports science people. In not blaming him for the decision to play JP I assume he was given data and information which suggested the risk was worth taking.

If there is a lesson to be learned it may be concerning the player’s post match recovery after the Watford game. That will be for the fitness team to analyse and assess.

It is only my perception but I actually think the training and fitness regime has improved compared with what we had several years ago. I have no stats to support this but there do not appear to be as many hamstring and calf strains as there used to be in Roberto’s tenure when the likes of Mirallas, McCarthy and Deulofeu seemed to be breaking down every few weeks. The fact that Delph and Gbamin have succumbed to strains so early is not an indictment of the regime. More probably it is an indication they were below par when they arrived at Finch Farm. Once players have adjusted to the training load at Finch Farm they appear to be better equipped to cope with the Premier League.

I agree. Under Martinez as I recall there were a lot of "soft tissue" injuries. And Martinez and Willie Donachie's boy disagreed over training/treatments. I haven't sensed a trend under Silva with injuries.

Last year, Jags and Baines both seemed to be out a lot with niggly stuff but I suspect that it was because they are old and when they're not playing regularly their bodies are more prone to stress with stop/start action.

Mina had his metatarsal but that was an issue before he arrived here. For the most part, the regulars: Pickford, Sigurdsson, Richarlison, Bernard, Gomes etc had a clean bill of health all season.

I suspect that Silva has been including Adeniran, Gibson and Gordon in first team training so they're not totally thrown in at the deep end if we have a major injury crisis. Obviously midfield is looking pretty ropey now but we still have Davies waiting in the wings before we have to draft in Adeniran.

Last season, as he did with Lookman, Silva talked up Tom a lot, even making him skip for a string of games. He again gave him the captain's arm band at times this pre-season and continued to speak well of him.

I get quite annoyed how poor people's recall of Tom's contribution was when he broke into the first team under Koeman. Too many just lazily recall his AMAZING goal in the 4-0 tanking of City and claim he has never done anything since.

BOLLOCKS! He was a mainstay of the side in the 2nd half of that season, often being selected ahead of both Gueye and Schneiderlin when all were available.

He romped away with the young player of the year award that season and goal of the season.

Yes, his 2nd season - under 3 different managers, diverse tactics and dysfunctional football by MUCH more senior players - was more challenging.

As last season progressed he dropped further down the pecking order but when called on was not a hapless lightweight as some like to paint him.

Does he have great pace? No. Is he clumsy in the tackle? Yes. Does his first touch let him down at times and the ball gets away from him? Yes.

But he also has the heart of a lion, plays with his head up and looks to play forward, be it with the ball at his feet or one touch play and pass.

My enduring memory of Tom is when he came on as a 17 year old sub away to Chelsea in a 5-0 whopping where far more senior players were being humiliated.

He BELONGED. Not overawed in the least, he didn't hide. Again and again and again he sought and received the ball in a packed midfield full of Chelsea star performers (they were eventual champions), instantly controlled and passed the ball on rapidly as good players do. In the short time he was on, he was head and shoulders Everton's best player in that humiliation.

Now Tom is clearly his own man and has a distinct personality. You don't have his dress sense without having the character to carry it off in public as he does! Or get dropped off at training as kissing his mum goodbye in front of his peers as he did. I love that aspect of the lad.

Injuries and poor form from nearly all our available midfielders is a concern. But I rather hope it also represents an opportunity for Tom Davies to once again be integrated into the team and be allowed to bloom.

As for his best position I would say that is currently occupied by Gomes. Tom is not best as an out an out defensive or attacking midfielder, but rather an in-betweeny, linking and transitioning the team from defence to attack.

"I am not explicitly or implicitly blaming the management."

In reply to Nick's own explicit post @ 39 ("That's what happens when you play 90 mins of Prem football with only 1 weeks training after your summer break") your verbatim words @ 52 were:

"Nick (39) Correct. This injury was not bad luck. It happened because the manager, desperate to inject some energy into the midfield, took a risk with a player who ideally would have been eased into the team over a period of several weeks."

I guess we differ on the interpretation of 'explicit'.

I acknowledge you now retrospectively moderate your earlier posts and align yourself more with the counters I offered to yours and Nick's original posts.

Both a conundrum and enigma for Silva to solve.

However despite Andre's horror show on Friday I don't think he will feel he can afford to drop Gomes as the midfield is reliant on him now.

I'm holding my breath that Delph is fit soon, groin injuries are a bugger to reoccur.

Both ran their socks off for the team; Davies playing really well and DCL playing the 'Giroud' role at a very early stage in their careers. Both, in my view, were over-exposed, Davies, in particular, filling in here, there and everywhere. DCL doing an unsupported thankless task.

I'm not sure anyone knows Tom's best position. I also think, like many young players, he had a dip in form after a good start.

Both would benefit from a loan spell; Davies to get regular games and a playing identity, DCL to get a slight drop in grade, some confidence and perhaps some mentoring off a more senior player. Who could he learn off in his time with us?

Unfortunately, our financial and recruitment issues mean we need them to fill in the gaps, possibly at the expense of their own careers.

I like them both as people and players. Clubs need hard-working, talented players who aren't quite top-class. DCL will never be a high-scoring striker, but he's looked better in a team that didn't isolate him. Davies will look a better player when gets games and an identity.

Not sure they're going to get that with us.

The club said he'll be assessed this week, so hopefully the time frame might not be as long. Regarding his lack of fitness, and the push to get him up to speed, after his appearances in the Africa Cup of Nations, how was he not fit?

Also, why has Davies been totally ignored by Silva, considering we're totally lacking pace in midfield.

DCL runs his socks off and is a good footballer. The only thing is he isn't a number 9 particularly a number 9 in a 4-3-2-1 system where his lack of goals is particularly important.

Tom on the other hand is more of a link up player in the Siggy role so both of their strengths have been negated in the positions they have been asked to play.

The other concern I have about Tom is his lifestyle. He always has eyes in the back of his head and bags that you would expect from a 50 year old. He gives the impression he is on the nest all night or playing video games. Either way he needs to take more care of himself.

Both have been ill-used by each manager who came in. Davies has played all over the place. There cannot be many 21-year-olds who have played as many games in different positions as him as him – ever!

Calver-Lewin didn't even get a game at centre-forward under Koeman in his first season. He has started just over 50 in all competitions, scoring 17 times, but on at least 15 of those occasions, he has been asked to play on the left or on the right. People know that, but they put up distorted stats which include 1- or 2-minute cameos...

Like Tom Davies, he has had to play out of position because the straight-talking hard men (Koeman and Allardyce) were gutless fucks who didn't dare ask senior, more experienced pros to play out of position.

Let's be clear here: we have spent well over £300M on midfield players and forwards since Martinez left. We really can't say the managers have had no other choices.

Either the managers (who were roundly applauded as they spent the money) were gormless twats for selecting the young pair ahead of them... or Calvert-Lewin and Davies got in on merit because the superstars signed on the dotted, turned up and promptly got the deck chairs out.

Either way, Rhino's boys are blameless... totally blameless.

City-based Blues will pick up any gossip on the lad, but I've never heard, seen or read anything that he is a 'wrong 'un' mixing in bad company as other young Everton starlets have done.

On the contrary, Silva speaks of him constantly asking what he needs to do to improve his game and cement his place in the team.

Given the sparsity of midfield options we currently have, together with the stuttering form of all to date, if he doesn't feature much from the start or the bench in our upcoming games it really doesn't augur well for his Everton future.

-New midfielder out for 3 months!
-Two best goal scorers forgotten how to score
-4 points from expected 9
- wolves without a win, at Goodison this weekend and a banana skin cup tie ahead!

Davies will not let us down and if he plays in his proper position he will add some bite and energy. Morgan is ok on his own but can't be paired with someone who will indulge in 3-yard passing like Gomes did against Villa. Iwobi can play as part of a midfield three. Is the new RB able to play in midfield by the way?

It would be interesting to see if Adeniran could cope? Is Baines able to play there?

I think the problem at Villa was Gomes and Sigurdsson being so poor to the extent we were almost playing with nine men. If Silva sorts those two out and gets Richarlison firing, we might yet avoid relegation (joking!!).

I sometimes think we are like guests on an ocean liner during a storm. According to each wave that hits the boat we run back and forth across the deck.

Some blame the ship, others the captain and there are even those who conjure up ideas of the 😈 across the park.

My way of maintaining my optimism and sanity after enjoyable visits to TW is ignore those are are certain they, and often them alone, know.

They rarely do and will batter your optimism out of you or at least call you a bad fan for seeing something positive!

I have a feeling we will beat Wolves if we change a rather staid and unproductive forward line and introduce some folk like Davies to also add a bit of fizz.

And we can all then run to the other side of the ship!

If we have to go down that road again we need to at least have injection of pace and play Iwobi instead of Sigurdsson in the formation Silva as always wanted to play, a 4-3-3.

That way we can try and emulate a certain other club and have a fluid front 3. At the moment Richarlison and Bernard are playing too wide. In a 4-3-3 they're be able to come further inside and interchange with Kean. Is Silva brave enough to drop Sigurdsson though?!

You're right and it's interesting that we're saying the same things with a slightly different perspective.

Funny how many people go on about us not getting players from the lower divisions forget about the likes of DCL & Gueye and local lads like Tom & Jonjoe.

In the midst of all the praise Shane Lavery rightly got for his excellent goal and performance for Linfield last week, did anyone notice the injury time Panenka-style penalty from one Magaye Guaye?

Jay, Davies idea of a holiday last year was backpacking around Australia staying in hostels with like minded young people. NOT your Lukaku/Pogba partying holiday ending up in Police custody. An ordinary grounded lad.

Further affirmation and enhancement of his well-grounded (but original and individual!) personality as I believed he displays.

I really, really want it to come good on the football front for Tom Davies AND whilst at Everton.

Don't get me wrong I wasn't for a minute suggesting he was partying or doing substance abuse but you don't get those bags naturally so I was inferring like a lot of young people he sat up playing internet games half the night or he had a young lady who was keeping him awake all night. LOL

Like so many of us I really like the lad and his enthusiasm and work rate and would love it to work out for him at Everton but there is obviously something holding him back in Silva's eyes.

I still have much hope for Tom... probably same as I have hope for Calvert-Lewin.

But right now, I think DCL may need a couple of weeks off from first team. He is a bright lad and needs some quick-shot training and attitude of 'fuck it' if they miss. They won't always.

I suspect Kean has that.

But I think it is speed around him we need and quick passes, even if some go wrong.

And if they do, maybe some of us need to stay supporters!

We get an injury to Gbamin, who is a new player who wasn't fully fit when the season started, yet got thrown in early due to Schneiderlin getting sent off. Many fans picked his 2 performances apart, claiming Gbamin was too slow and gave the ball away too much.

Two weeks later and Gbamin is injured, we are back to our average best of 1 win, 1 loss, 1 draw and somehow the Gbamin story turns into yet ANOTHER debate about a lad who hasn't even been given a chance this season in Tom Davies. The debate isn't one where all the blues are asking for him to be given a chance, but rather one where many take this opportunity to slam him and basically rip him apart.

I noticed one comment claiming that it's a myth that game time will make Davies a better player as he already played 70 games for us. Is that a genuine comment???? Really!!!!! Can anyone tell me anyone who didn't become better off more games?

Not that my two bobs worth can be classed as gospel but if people look at English midfielders aged 21 (like Tom is) can they name more than 3 or 4 better?

After Foden and now possibly Mount (would need to see more, but he looks talented), possibly Gibbs-White who can't get into the Wolves team and Choudhury who looks like he may play more this season for Leicester, I cant see many who people may mention.

Look at Deli Ali, an extremely talented footballer who has struggled to keep up his sky-high level once he was noticed, he hasn't quite hit his heights last season, but I'm sure he will have the spurs fans backing.

Then there is Winks also at spurs, he is 23 and he has only managed 65 games for Spurs, he was similar in stature to Davies but he has filled out a bit and seems to have become an important player to Spurs.

Ross Barkley struggled at Tom's age also, so did many others.

Again many on here are quick to shoot Davies down, that goes for Calvert-Lewin also, but I've said it before, not everyone can turn into a top world class talent, maybe both these lads are just squad players, but they have age on there side so they can develop, but in order to develop they need to be given game time, and when they are given game time they need to be backed by the clubs FANS!

That is what we are supposed to do as fans, support the lads who wear the Jersey. Yes we want top players, but the fact is Tom wasn't bought for a huge fee, he's time served from within the club, let him be allowed to take his chance, I for one am hoping he is given that chance and takes it with both hands.

"somehow the Gbamin story turns into yet ANOTHER debate about a lad who hasn't even been given a chance this season in Tom Davies. The debate isn't one were all the blues are asking for him to be given a chance, but rather one were many take this opportunity to slam him and basically rip him apart."

Unfair and not true of this thread Si. Do a 'find in Page' search for the word Tom in this thread. I found 39.

Other than Jim Bennings' posts that you quote in making your claims the overwhelming majority of posts and posters that mention Tom write very much in favour of him.

In this instance you are seeing and claiming something that isn't there.

By comment 11 he has had a few more mentions, most of which are in favour of him although most describe him as "not the answer" or "not the solution".

Then Jim is back for another Davies bashing for no real reason.

After that Trevor at 28 just completely blew my mind claiming more game wont improve Tom.

After that I decided to say my piece, but after your reply I had a further look and realised there was much more support actually being show to Tom than I gave the tread credit for.

Tbh the development of the young local lads (not just the scousers but any youngsters who earns there chance) is something I'm passionate about.

Barkley leaving the way he did killed me as he basically shit on the club, but reading some of the comments he was often picked apart, always being spoken about for the things he couldn't do, rather what what he could do.

Rom and Stonesy were the same, both spoken down about although both seemed to do ok without us.

Now we have lads Davies, Holgate, JJ Kenny, Dowell, and DCL close to the first team set up and me personally I'd like them to be supported. I appreciate that many of our fans do support them, I equally appreciate the fact that they wont be everyones proffered choices, but sometimes I feel many of our fans don't put it into proper perspective, they don't seem to realise that if Davies wasnt at the blues then we wouldn't have signed Rodri over city, instead we would be signing a couple of million pound player who wont make the grade. Same with DCL, we mustn't have had the money or the pull to take Rom back, so we looked at the available players to us and decided DCL was a better option.

Back to your post though I do appreciate that more of the posters on this thread are in favour of giving Davies his chance.

Cheers for your reply.

Tom loosens the whole midfield thing up. He takes strides forward and takes a bit more of a risk. Ok, he will lose the ball more often but this more postive ''looser'' play opens the game up and causes the opposition to lose their shape.

If we are persisting with a combative and deeper CF like DCL , playing Tom to counter that defensive nature of DCL makes sense . It balances things out a bit more. To play DCL and two defensive CMids is too conservative and stifles our play and goal scoring chances and goals.

Playing him has risks. But after watching static midfield performances like that at Villa something has got to change.

Above all, I think Tom has got to get more game time, with us or with whoever. He is at an age now where he is mature enough to prove he can do it. He is getting stronger and will take on board more discipline. I really rate him, always loved his enthusiasm, commitment and great engine.

There is an 'infectious' factor about such a player , a local lad , who cares. Every game means something to him . That mindset is invaluable. It rubs off on the other foreign lads. It should not be underestimated.

I would like to see Silva put some faith in him, back him. I think he would be repaid for it.

!

Lössl if fit in goal no problem.

If he plays a back 4 no changes.

With Gbamin out Tom Davies should be a shoo-in. I'm not sure what he's done wrong. Something not quite right here?

Drop Calvert-Lewin and Walcott for Kean and Iwobi for a decent run of games.

Delph and Sidibe if fit should get 30-45 mins second half.

I'm not going to knock Gomes, but I'm sure he wasn't fit against Villa!

Then leave well alone, we don't need an early exit like most years. I suspect that Sky have chosen this match as a potential banana skin.

I like Tom and feel he will get plenty of opportunities over the season but it seems that on Friday night we had a clear problem with the midfield being too pedestrian, a lack of energy and because the manager didn't bring him on people seem to be angry that he's not getting a chance when it looked perfect for Toms abilities.

From my perspective I feel Silva would have brought him on had we equalised and taken Gomes off to get more legs into the midfield. However we needed a goal and despite what many of us feel about Walcott the three subs created three clear chances which at least one should have been buried.

Tom would have been the answer to get control of the game, to give us a better chance of an equaliser I'm not so sure.

So now we have an injury to Gbamin there is an increasing clamour for Tom to start. With the cup match he may well do.

For me Tom is not suited to play the holding role, his tackling is suspect and I'm not sure he has the nous or discipline to play there and as a Tom Davies fan I would prefer he get his chance when he's not on a hiding to nothing.

I am a big admirer of Gomes and I feel our game really suffers when he's not on the pitch. Even on Friday when he was disastrous he didn't hide and kept going despite his passing, decision making, tracking and shooting boots leaving him.

He had a nightmare but I feel he deserves the chance to the chance to put it right.

Siggy should be the one who should be under threat. He has had not only had three terrible games but invisible to boot. In addition a midfield three of Scneids, Tom and Andre would give both the freedom which play to both Andre and Toms strengths.

If this was the option the manager takes I would be more than happy but although Siggy definitely deserves to be dropped its still a big call as he is our biggest goal threat and he is that type of player that even on form he is either a difference maker and doesn't contribute a whole lot else.

Friday is gone so let's not let that match totally shape our thinking. We need to get the mindset of some of our players right first starting with Ricky, Siggy and Gomes as we can't afford to carry passengers if we want to win games in this league.

It was plain obvious these players needed time to get fit. Delph Kean and Iwobi included. Lincoln is a good game to get the near ready players fitter.

Now of course Cryuff snr is credited with establishing Barcelona's style of football and influencing Pep Guardiola's coaching.

These quotes by Jordi are the standouts from the interview and possibly most relevant to Everton's situation and the ongoing discussion about our style of play and use of young players. He describes his father as:

"My father always had unbelievable strength, which I don't think 99.9% of people in football have now...my father was well known as a coach who wanted to give opportunities to young players.

"I find myself thinking about my dad a lot when I am thinking about certain decisions now I'm a manager. When I do that I usually go for the young player or the most offensive player!"

I find that quite appealing. Link to the article below:

Link

He should probably play against Lincoln though. Poor luck Gbamin getting injured.

Or opposed to Sigurdsson who is prone to invisibility and lacks vision.

Or opposed to Gomes, who is prone to errors, the occasional rush of blood and lacks vision.

I thought we were very strong in the central midfield department until Friday's shambles and this bad news. Seriously worried now about our options in this area.

Errors yes, all players are prone to errors aren't they, due to being human (on some level). If you prefer Davies over those others, then I can't argue with you, I was merely offering up a suggestion as to why he doesn't get picked by the manager.

I would suggest Silva doesn't trust Davies over others in the squad.

The minute you start relying on such evidence, you may no longer be an optimist and therefore die early

As for those early deaths before they had been on TW!

We reach the same conclusion!

Sometimes I wonder is the boss told to protect assets.

But my real side says all will be great!

Like just this past Friday I actually got to see Morgan Schneiderlin make a great pass. Now who would have believed that? More likely to see a yeti or a unicorn. But it really happened.

And just a moment ago I got to learn a new word from Dermot: epistemic. Never a day here where I don't come away a little more educated.

Can't beat that!

I cannot tell you what Joe Bloggs said 4 years ago that now contradicts his current position but like you, I share you enjoyment and have hope, not misery.

C-O-Y-B!

Optipistemic.

It means you're philosophically certain we're gonna beat Lincoln tomorrow. Works for me.

So who's this Joe Bloggs? New signing? Guess he's just a bang average player, eh?

It's a pretty rare injury, and it's the downside of a powerful physique. He might have kicked the ground or followed through with such force that his thigh muscles literally overpowered the tendon. Happens to weightlifters sometimes doing quad extensions and dead lifts.

This is serious stuff -- on a par with a torn Achilles.

Our biggest problem is Gana has gone, but that is that and he has gone for good. Schneiderlin hasn't really filled anyone with confidence over the past few years but he is the only senior holding midfielder, our manager said he isn't for sale and he looks to be giving him a chance.

For me Davies is unfortunate in that his best roll imo is the box to box midfielder, the roll that when your winning it gets praised, but when you lose becomes questionable.

Michael Essien was one of the first to play this roll in the prem, as he was part of a Jose Mourinho team that had a 3 man midfield. Makalele played holding (Schneiderlin), Essien played box to box doing less of the tackling but more of the running, and Lampard banged goals. If you hit 20 goals from midfield, your safe. Siggy plays that for us, clearly not with Lampard's numbers, but with a fair 13 goals and a handful of assists, meaning at our level (7th to 9th), that counts as successful. Davies plays the roll of not the holder, not the scorer, but the kind of guy who needs to get to a stage were he is a 6 or 7 at most things, a bit like Henderson for the shite. Gomes plays this roll for us, he is neither the assist master, goal scorer or the Kante of our side, but he is a very good player so its difficult for Tom to displace him. For me Tom shouldn't start over Gomes, but when Gomes performs like he did v Villa, I honestly cant see how Davies isn't given ago. You also have Silva saying Tom likes the number 10 roll, Siggy is a talented lad but could he be anymore absent from the first 3 games !

My point goes all the way back to comment 1, which was my comment.

If Siggy and Gomes play how they currently are doing, Delph and Gbamin are both out injured, and Schneiderlin is stupid enough to get 2 yellow cards on his first showing, then how will Tom break into this team.

It needs to go one of a few ways to be fair to the lad;
1. Play him, even if it's slightly out of position.
2. Loan him out and allow him valuable experience to break into our side.
3. Sell him because you simply do not rate him.

He will never be 'the answer' if he is never given a chance to become the answer, it's like the Lookman situation, every player needs a fair run to prove there worth, not 10 minutes a month.

The answer to Gana leaving was to buy Kante as he is the only other footballer on the planet with Gana's numbers in terms of stats, but the fact is we don't have the resources or the pull to buy Kante so we have bought Gbamin (who may very well turn out to be the answer), play Schneiderlin who wasn't the answer the past few years, despite being in his peak years, or blood a youngster like Davies or Beningeme. Davies seems the logical choice as Silva has made the lad captain before now, were as he has let Beningeme leave on loan, and never given him a sniff at the first team.

I just feel a few of the ToffeeWebbers need a reality check, they need to realise were we are at and accept the fact that players like Davies, JJ Kenny and DCL are here to stay, they are the newest versions of Leon Osman and Tony Hibbert in being a core part of the set up, and saving us on having to buying players like Mcgeady, Klassen and so on as expensive flops who never got near Osman in a blue shirt, or players like Cuco Martina who is taking millions of pounds a year out of our club when we could easily do without him, giving his previous game time to lads like Kenny, Holgate or Callum Connolly.

Keeping the young lads around the squad saves millions in transfers and allows us to spend bigger on players.

Id bet signing Kean this window was massively helped by DCL and his ability to play in the first team, had Silva not trusted him then he would have needed to spend the Kean money on 2 forwards as it's clear he doesn't want Tosun or Niasse.

The youth system and the recruitment of young promising footballers should be used as the lifeblood of the club, we need to nurture the talent we find or develop from a young age at finch farm, and use it to bulk up our squad. If Davies never becomes a Frank Lampard then let's hope he becomes a Leon Osman, or a Mark Noble, a player who represents his club to the best of his ability, and sees off a lot of competition for his slot within the squad.

Anyways long winded I know, possibly off my initial point too, but I genuinely feel we need to back the youngsters much more at Everton, every now and then one becomes a super star, just go and look at Spurs now with Harry Kane, I doubt many of there fans foreseen him becoming what he is today when he was sat on Leicester's bench in the championship a few years ago, managing just 3 goals in 11 appearances at the tender age of 20.

I really hope Tom can make it but he has some apparently natural weaknesses to work on. I presume he is doing everything the fitness guys have identified for him but it is difficult to know from distance whether he is taking it on himself to do a bit extra for himself. Elsewhere Tom has been lauded for his normality in backpacking in Australia. Simply put, he is not a normal 21-year-old. He is someone who has a shot at (relative) greatness. I would think he'd have plenty of time to broaden his cultural horizons after his football career and could have chosen to have a couple of weeks full rest and relaxation and then put in a couple of extra weeks in the gym or on the track before getting together with everyone else for the squad stuff.

Of course I'm speculating but at the moment it does seem that something is holding the coaching staff from using him on match days. He will most likely gain some strength and extra pace naturally in the next couple of years but he may be able to speed that process up a bit. I want him to succeed for his own benefit; I want him to do it ASAP for the benefit of the club.

I've not likened Davies to any of them players.

I did say Winks is a young English player who is only just breaking into a spurs side at 23.

I did say both Essien, Henderson, and Gomes play a roll (box to box) that in my opinion is suited to Davies.

I did say that players like Noble and our own Leon Osman are servants of there clubs who have never been top top draw, but have served the clubs well, saving them millions.

I watch football all the time mate, only a moron would put Essien and all action midfielder with multiple honours as a comparison to Tom Davies, a young Evertonian who isn't quite sure of his preferred position and still has to develop physically. My only reason to mention Essien was to say he played the box to box roll excellently.

I am not going to take the time to explain my points again, if you disagree then that is fair enough, but I have responded to both Jay, and Connor discussing my points, its difficult to be able to do the same when you send comments putting words into my mouth over comparisons.

One point I will put to you though mate is you compare Davies to Bullard, and yes he never made it at a top four side, but there are players of a certain level in every winning squad who are premiership level, but not at a level were the start week in week out for a top side.

Nicky Butt, Phil Neville, John o'shea and wes Brown will be good examples of that (although please note I am not saying any of them resemble Tom Davies playing style!!), they were all a big part in a hugely successful man u squad. My point being all came through the man u academy, and all could have been replaced by players who were better than them, yet Ferguson kept them players through there whole careers due to the fact the had the man u DNA in there bones by coming through the academy, this might be a good model to follow due to its success.

Thankfully the club has appointed Brands and hopefully we will soon get a lot more players breaking in from the youth ranks.

Likewise I take your point about Lookman and I don't feel he was handled well by Silva last season and I was gutted he left when we still have the likes of Walcott as our fourth winger. Not only this but I feel he is actually best in the Siggy role and was never tried there.

I think we think similarly Si with the only difference is that I feel Tom needs to play in a 3 as a box to box or in the Gomes role in a 2. He was tried in the Siggy role last year but he doesn't have the toolset for that role whether he likes playing there or not.

I feel the Davies issue is a red herring and many TW need to point to a saviour to explain where we went wrong and suddenly after Villa Tom is it.

The problem is we are playing Wolves next in the league and they aren't as dynamic in the middle as Villa but have serious quality so I would like to see Scheids,Gomes and Iwobi as the 3 in that game.

To me it's much more credible to find a player who more closely resembles our Tom in all aspects of athleticism, ability, attitude and age who really made the position their own and see how old they were when they really became established, even if it was mainly as a simple cog in the machine.

I think Tom Davies has a future at Everton if he strengthens some aspects of his play. At the moment he is back up only (you don't simply hook a midfielder like Gomes who is having a mare but still desperately trying unless you are sure he won't find that moment of real quality unless you want to knock his confidence) but that is no disgrace and no reason to look to go elsewhere.