Gomes expected to make a full recovery following surgery

Monday, 4 November, 2019 218comments  |  Jump to last

Updated André Gomes underwent surgery on his injured leg today after tests revealed he sustained a fracture dislocation to his right ankle during the 1-1 draw with Tottenham.

The Portuguese was scythed down by Son Hueng-min with 12 minutes left of the match and suffered the injury when his foot caught in the turf and he then collided with Serge Aurier.

Gomes was taken straight to Aintree Hospital while Son was given his marching orders with a straight red card.

The match ended all square after Cenk Tosun headed home in the seventh minute of stoppage time to cancel out Dele Alli's 63rd-minute opener.

A statement by Everton said that the "procedure went extremely well" and that the 26-year-old is "expected to make a full recovery" but no official timescale has been put on his return.

While Gomes had the operation to mend his broken foot, a doctor who used to be on the medical team for the Portuguese national side has given an optimistic assessment of the player's chances of playing in next summer's European Championships.

Henrique Jones, mostly backed up by Premier League injury analyst, Ben Dinnery, says that providing there are no complications from what he describes as a "relatively simple" operation, Gomes could be out for between three to five months.

“Andre is young," Jones told Record in Portugal. "Surgery, if successful, will bring about a 100% recovery and he will surely have the mobility and functionality of the ankle without problems. From the moment the surgery is performed, the next step is to start recovering almost immediately.”

Other experts, like consultant orthopaedic surgeon, Andrew Goldberg, suggest it's "impossible to predict precisely" due to several influencing factors which could impact the healing process. "Whether or not the blood flow has been impinged to any of the bones, what the configuration of the fracture is, which bones have been injured, and his healing capacity. Six months I think would be the best-case scenario, but it could take up to a year."

Quotes sourced from Record via Sport Witness



Reader Comments (218)

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Mark Guglielmo
1 Posted 04/11/2019 at 00:11:33
Best wishes, Andre and we're all hoping you recover as quickly as is possible.

I, for one, am anxiously awaiting the day when I can complain about you taking a stupid foul at the edge of the box. :-)

Daniel A Johnson
2 Posted 04/11/2019 at 00:15:07
Speedy recovery Andre, stay strong and positive.
Jim Bennings
3 Posted 04/11/2019 at 00:22:39
He’s only 26, this time next year he’ll be back playing at 27 years old, coming into the peak of his career.

It’s much harder for a fullback like Coleman because his game was all about doing doggies up and down the flank.

Gomes will fit right back in quite easily and at his age, he’s young still.

Steve Ferns
4 Posted 04/11/2019 at 00:24:23
I sincerely hope so, Jim.
David Pearl
5 Posted 04/11/2019 at 01:04:20
Who knows how long it will take to come back and if he will be the same? Awful injury. This season can't get any worse. Can it?
Mark Guglielmo
6 Posted 04/11/2019 at 01:16:03
Well it will now since you just jinxed us, David. 😔
David Pearl
7 Posted 04/11/2019 at 01:24:19
Yes Mark, its all my fault. See we're now investigating racist gestures towards Son... so it already has.
Mark Guglielmo
8 Posted 04/11/2019 at 01:29:09
Jesus, are we really? Given the state of mankind these days, I wish I could say I'm surprised. 😔
David Pearl
9 Posted 04/11/2019 at 01:34:11
I know. Sad isn't it. A negative for Everton. But we know who we are as a club and l hope the rest of the world sees it too. Coleman and Tosun going to see Son was the touch of class that's Everton
Mark Guglielmo
10 Posted 04/11/2019 at 01:41:44
It really was. I'm hoping the vitriol directed towards him can be chalked up to the raw emotion of the day. I can't say sorrow or sympathy is what I feel toward him but perhaps empathy is the right word.

Besides, how's that saying go? Let him who is without sin something something?

David Pearl
11 Posted 04/11/2019 at 01:47:53
Let Spurs who are without Son, for 3 games.
Kieran Kinsella
12 Posted 04/11/2019 at 02:10:26
Appears to be one “fan” and Everton have taken the lead in investigating. Ban him. Everyone gets upset but racist abuse shouldn't be at the top of your emotional responses list.

I do suspect as Steve Ferns said that Son set out to kick him in retaliation but that happens a dozen times a game. The outcome was a fluke horrific event.

Similar to Ramos deciding to pull Salah over. Liverpool fans believe it was a premeditated wrestling move designed to dislocate his shoulder. I never bought that. It was a cynical foul with unintended consequences. Seamus knows more than anyone about such injuries.

If he is willing to take Son's remorse at face value then I am certainly not going to second guess his on-field perspective. But we each have our own views and emotions. If others hold a grudge, argue for or against the red, I respect their views but hold my own. I hope we all agree on condemning the one thing that was clearly preventable: the racist abuse.

Darryl Ritchie
13 Posted 04/11/2019 at 02:55:22
The foul was intended; the result, wasn't. Son won't sleep well tonight... then again, neither will Gomes.

Just a very bad situation that happens sometimes.

Anthony Flack
14 Posted 04/11/2019 at 08:24:49
The foul was deliberate and resulted in a horror injury, I have no sympathy at all with Son, or bleating liberals bashing on about how upset he is. He is an adult and responsible for his actions.

No one suggests there was intent to hurt Gomes

It may be connected to the prior clash, we will never know.

What is for certain is, if positions were reversed the blessed media would have had a lynch mob at our doors

Get well soon Andre

Rob Hooton
15 Posted 04/11/2019 at 08:42:32
Here’s hoping André can make a full recovery, best wishes to him.
He was starting to show glimpses of class and form, I don’t think Son is a dirty player but he deserves a lengthy ban.
A lifetime ban for the rat who used racist taunts
John Hoggarth
16 Posted 04/11/2019 at 08:53:33
Son was frustrated about the previous incident with Gomes and clearly intended to bring him down.
I’ve thought for a long time that “tackles” where a player deliberately brings an opponent down, with no chance of getting the ball, should be viewed as violent conduct punished with a red card.
It’s a cynical tactic used to stop attacks, vent frustrations etc and doesn’t need to be “part of the game”.
Paul Jeronovich
17 Posted 04/11/2019 at 09:35:29
The day after the event and I’m absolutely devastated for Andre, the fans and the club. It’s going to take something miraculous to salvage this season.

I’ve also just watched the extended highlights, there should be no outpouring for Son, it’s not in doubt that he never meant to injure an opponent BUT he did mean to take him down and from behind. There was intent of sorts and his ban should be at least doubled.

Stan Schofield
18 Posted 04/11/2019 at 09:35:36
The racism is a diversion from the thread. Give it a rest, it's a subject being covered quite adequately by other threads and media. The thread is about Gomes' injury.

Regarding salvaging the season, if what happened to Gomes, and the appalling officiating against Everton, doesn't fire us up to achieve, nothing will!!

Ron Morgan
19 Posted 04/11/2019 at 10:20:21
In a strange but perverse sort of way, what happened yesterday (the injury to Andre Gomes) might actually galvanise the team to pull out all the stops and go on and beat both Southampton and Norwich. Give a Tosun a run of games too. He is a battler.
Eddie Dunn
20 Posted 04/11/2019 at 10:27:30
A mate had the same sort of injury, a dislocation and fracture...he didn't get the expertise that Andre will get but decided not to go back to playing. A self-employed plumber, he needed to be mobile.
Hopefully as Andre doesn't rely on his pace, he might return. He is a good passer, has intelligence and is strong. It's going to be a long, hard road but with the likes of Seamus to give him hope, he has every chance to come back. Jimmy Mac came back, Oviedo did too.
Good luck Andre.
Nick Armitage
21 Posted 04/11/2019 at 11:37:17
Anthony Flack and John Hoggarth - perfect summaries, well said. We really need to be able to like posts here.
Dale Rose
22 Posted 04/11/2019 at 11:46:31
All the best Andre. See you soon.
Dale Rose
23 Posted 04/11/2019 at 11:47:57
All the best Andre. See you soon.
Tom Bowers
24 Posted 04/11/2019 at 12:36:26
Only Everton could suffer 3 bad injuries to 3 newer midfielders intended to turn this club around.
It certainly doesn't help Silva's plans and could be something that Moshiri will consider in Silva's if results get worse.
Hopefully the troops will rally round and give the kind of effort needed to climb out of the basement.
Tommy Carter
25 Posted 04/11/2019 at 12:47:25
@16 John

Spot on John. I couldn’t agree more.

I think part of why Son may have been so upset was because he knew himself that he was making a very cynical challenge motivated by frustration.

Of course he never meant to injure Gomes. But he knows that what he did directly led to a sickening injury.

This type of challenge, of its going to be used as a tactic by players, must be punished with a red card. To make no attempt to play the ball and just kick someone to prevent an attack, a simple yellow cannot be the correct sanction.

As a football club, if we didn’t have bad luck then we would have no luck at all. We seem to get a lot of 12 month type horrific injuries.

Rodrigo
Vaughan
Arteta
Jagielka
Anichebe
Oviedo
Yakubu
Mccarthy
Coleman
Bolasie

There may be others that I’ve missed

Denis Richardson
26 Posted 04/11/2019 at 13:21:49
Wishing André a speedy recovery.

On the plus side it’s not a double break of the lower leg, which is what I was initially fearing. Think his injury takes about 3-4 months to heal then physio and rehab. His season is most likely done but fingers crossed he’ll be ready for pre- season next summer. Not sure ligaments ever get back as strong after a dislocation but he’s still relatively young.

Think the other players would have been distressed seeing his foot pointing the wrong way.

Have to assume he’s out for the rest of the season and move on.

Steve Ferns
27 Posted 04/11/2019 at 13:34:00
To those genuinely wanting to convey their well wishes to Andre Gomes, can I suggest social media. Gomes is very active on social media. There's two types of active for me, there's the Tom Davies type, where he publishes photographs and messages but disables comments so communication is only one way. Nothing wrong with that, and probably most the advisable thing to do.

Gomes though, it's two way. He allows comments. He responds to them. I've wished him well a couple of times to receive the old like. Maybe he employs someone to do it for him. I think that it's more likely to be the man himself. He's going to have a lot of time on his hands. I would like to think that the man can be bombarded with tens of thousands of well wishes on Instagram and twitter, his preferred social media. That or send the lad a card via EFC.

He has taken the club into it's heart. He has what appears to be genuine affection for the fans. Like Coleman and McCarthy before him, he needs support right now. So let him know on his social media rather than wishing him well here.

Stan Schofield
28 Posted 04/11/2019 at 13:52:41
Steve, great post, and will do.
Jamie Crowley
29 Posted 04/11/2019 at 14:16:23
Anthony Flack @ 14 you say:

No one suggests there was intent to hurt Gomes.

I beg to differ. I'm suggesting and claiming, without reservation, Son intended to hurt Gomes.

From behind, chased down, in a kicking motion clearly meant to do more to hurt, rather than your "professional foul", with absolutely no chance of contact with the ball.

Do not buy into this narrative that Son "isn't that type of player" and soften stance. It was a wicked and violent tackle, who's only end-game was a career ending injury. An injury 100% caused by, and who is 100% responsible for, Mr. Son.

Read my post on the Tosun thread. Son is a shithouse.

Jeff Spiers
30 Posted 04/11/2019 at 14:31:43
Sad to say, but this SHOULD BE A KICK UP THE ARSE FOR EVERY PLAYER IN A BLUE SHIRT !!
Mark Guglielmo
31 Posted 04/11/2019 at 14:50:47
Any official word from the club on how the surgery went? Yes I’m impatient.
Julian Wait
32 Posted 04/11/2019 at 15:09:00
Tommy Carter #25,

Don't forget Barkley's leg break that changed who he was as a player and robbed him of perhaps almost two years of critical development. Things might have turned out very differently but for that. He still doesn't go in for tackles much.

Chris Williams
33 Posted 04/11/2019 at 15:12:51
Club says that the surgery went extremely well and he's expected to make a full recovery. Apparently the players are currently staying away because he's on very strong painkillers.
Mark Guglielmo
34 Posted 04/11/2019 at 15:15:26
Thanks Chris, that sounds like excellent news.
Ian Bennett
35 Posted 04/11/2019 at 15:22:02
Any ideas on length of time he's looking to be out?
Steve Ferns
36 Posted 04/11/2019 at 15:27:07
Thanks Chris, will go and check. By the way, Coleman getting some criticism on Twitter for being the face of nice old Everton. Some fan just posted a clip of Peter Reid getting revenge on Brian Marwood, under the caption: "This is how you treat a player who's just done of your team mates".

Horrific and vindictive foul by Reid, btw. Can't make out who would be the team in all yellow in the 80s, Leeds? Spurs? If it is Brian Marwood, then it has to be Sheff Weds. Definitely a red card challenge by Reid. Dunno if he got more than a booking though, as this was the 80s.

Kieran Kinsella
37 Posted 04/11/2019 at 15:30:10
Steve 36

So whoever posted that must think what Son did was cool given that he was seeking revenge?

Mark Guglielmo
38 Posted 04/11/2019 at 15:50:43
Should probably also remove Seamus as captain then. Replace him with a soulless automaton with a mean streak.

Sorry, I'm in a foul mood today.

Steve Ferns
39 Posted 04/11/2019 at 15:56:46
Exactly Kieran. It’s a much worse challenge by Reid but looked to have limited consequences.

Mark, I think Coleman showed some class. But there’s a school of thought that we lack a nasty streak and we’re too nice and this is a prime example of it.

I’d rather be nice Everton than Dirty Leeds.

James Marshall
40 Posted 04/11/2019 at 15:59:02
Coleman (and others) going into the Spurs dressing room to speak to Son kind of proves the feeling that Son wasn't/isn't considered entirely to blame.

Blame doesn't fix anything anyway and is a pointless emotional response to most things in life.

Gomes, from what we're hearing, is going to recover, and to be honest that's the only thing that matters anyway. I was heartbroken for the kid yesterday, but feeling a little better about it all this afternoon.

Mark Guglielmo
41 Posted 04/11/2019 at 16:14:59
Well said, James M. Honestly the only places I've seen boiling over and directing their vitriol at Son are here, Twitter (good gawd you should have to pass an IQ test before being allowed to post there), and a few scattered folks on other forums. Otherwise many seem to be evaluating with a fairly rational line of reasoning.

But yes, the only thing that matters is that it does appear André will recover nicely and we can get back one of our own.

Tommy Carter
42 Posted 04/11/2019 at 16:18:13
@32 Julian. Of course. Ross had a couple. Albeit he left the club during the snapped hamstring
Phil (Kelsall) Roberts
43 Posted 04/11/2019 at 16:38:29
Steve #36 - I can't believe you don't remember. Many on here yes, but not you.

Marwood did Adrian Heath in the 1984-85 season and ended it for Inchy. He only came back in the next year but by then Lineker was playing. The season after Inchy was almost an ever present when we won the title again.

Reidy took revenge. Great story how he was done in the BM ECWC semi at Goodison by Pflugler, stuffed a sponge down his sock and carried on. Later he did the guy, only to find it was Soren Lerby he had clattered.

Steve Ferns
44 Posted 04/11/2019 at 16:39:50
Phil, I was 6!
Daniel Thomas
45 Posted 04/11/2019 at 16:43:35
Jamie 29

The only conclusions I can draw from your post is that either:

1) You've never played the game.

2) You're still a little too emotional about what happened to make a rational point.

It was a cynical tackle from Son and one that was definitely a yellow, and probably a red. But several of those type of tackles occur every week as players try to break away and from what I could see he slid in to take his legs away from underneath him. The boy needs to own what he did and I'm sure he will think twice about cynically fouling someone like that again.

To say his endgame was a career-ending injury is bordering lunacy.

Now let's just wish Andre a speedy recovery and hope he can come back just as strong.

On a separate note, if we don't beat Southampton next up, then persisting with Silva definitely is lunacy.

Phil (Kelsall) Roberts
46 Posted 04/11/2019 at 16:43:52
😁😁😁

No excuse!

I'll blame your parents for not educating you fully. So did they tell you about the Sandy Brown penalty in the 71 EC last 16. I love Everton folklore.

Mark Guglielmo
47 Posted 04/11/2019 at 16:45:00
Any of you see this earlier today?

https://mobile.twitter.com/IGanaGueye/status/1191167861550723075

Pure class on Gana’s part. He’s sorely missed 😔

Steve Ferns
48 Posted 04/11/2019 at 16:48:19
Phil, I was probably at the game. My Dad started taking me when I was 4. My first cup final was that May in 1984! The 80's are a blur I was only 10 by the end of them and Everton were in decline. My Dad preferred the team of 1970, when he was 19, to the team of the 80s.
Christy Ring
49 Posted 04/11/2019 at 16:50:14
Wishing André a speedy recovery, the club said it went well, so hopefully it was straight forward. You can say what you like about Séamus, to me he’s a class act, what about the horrendous tackle on him? As for Reid’s retribution on Marwood, for his cowardly tackle on Heath(I think), live by the sword... Just a thought, what if Son hadn’t been sent off??
Rob Halligan
50 Posted 04/11/2019 at 16:54:04
Phil, #46, and Steve, I think the game in question was the European cup game against Borussia Monchengladbach, which ironically, was 49 years ago today, 4th November 1970.
Len Gowing
51 Posted 04/11/2019 at 17:54:07
Daniel #45, I am definitely in the Jamie #29 camp. Maybe not to cause the injury that ensued but he 100% intended to hurt him - Have you seen the photo of him mid air on social media, the venom in his face?

Aurier has a part in this too, it may have happened just prior to his tackle but his challenge was overly robust which no doubt exacerbated the injury. I may be wrong in all this, but I can't bring myself to watch it on TV, it happened 15 yards in front of me so I can only tell it like I saw it live and the horror on Andre's face is etched in my memory - I don't think he knew what had happened. I feel sick to the stomach.

Brian Williams
52 Posted 04/11/2019 at 18:04:48
Of course he meant to hurt him. He'd seen his arse as he'd took a smack in the face and was getting roundly booed by the crowd as we all felt he was playacting like he was when he took a swan dive in the area after the Mina challenge.

He'll be okay though as Spurs are to offer him counselling by all accounts.

Paul Johnson
53 Posted 04/11/2019 at 18:23:36
Jamie says it all for me. He wasn’t playing the ball he was playing the man from behind. Grade one shithouse challenge. Anyone with sympathy for Son should direct it to Andre. Son will be available in 3 weeks. Andre probably next year and there is no guarantee he will play or be able to attain his potential.
Brian Wilkinson
54 Posted 04/11/2019 at 18:33:02
Tony@25, how about Adding Heath, Bracewell, Snodin, Southall, Oviedo, old brain cells going now so not sure if Baines was out for a while as well, then you can add Nulty to the list, sure I will think of others, oh yes Jagielka.
Brian Wilkinson
55 Posted 04/11/2019 at 18:34:07
Ignore Oviedo and Jags, you’ve already listed those two.
Kieran Kinsella
56 Posted 04/11/2019 at 18:40:06
Tommy 25/Brian 55

You can add Parkinson and Williamson. Neither of whom ever played again. Vaughan, Yakubu and Rodrigo were never the same post injury. Ditto with Ovideo and Li Tie. The jury is still out on McCarthy and Bolasie getting back to their best also.


Charles Brewer
57 Posted 04/11/2019 at 18:55:32
Well this news sounds about as good as it could be given the circumstances.

I can understand Coleman and Tosun going to see Son, but I'm pretty pissed off at the "Let's turn Son into the real victim" crap we are getting from the media.

Someone said something nasty to him and that absolves him from breaking someone else's leg (or, in some peoples' view, is worse). I don't think so. Frankly there is no comparison.

And just because most nasty out of control revenge tackles don't end up in the operating theatre doesn't mean those that do should be considered OK.

By the account of much of the media, if Sanchez had (correctly) been sent of for what was a genuine "professional" foul, ie one intended to prevent the other side from scoring but which has no intent at all to harm the other player, he would have deserved a red while Son's thuggery should have left him on the field.

Mark Guglielmo
58 Posted 04/11/2019 at 19:06:15
Charles, what happened?

"Someone said something nasty to him and that absolves him from breaking someone else's leg (or, in some peoples' view, is worse). I don't think so. Frankly there is no comparison."

Please don't tell me it was one of our guys, depending on what was said, I'd hope we took the high road.

Kieran Kinsella
59 Posted 04/11/2019 at 19:11:25
Charles 57

Isaac Newton, "every action has an equal and opposite reaction." Son maims Gomes, some nutters start making death threats and hurling racist abuse at him. Media are bound to respond to the latter. Doesn't absolve him of anything.

Steve Ferns
60 Posted 04/11/2019 at 19:14:02
One of our fans made an allegedly racist comment. Precisely what was said has not been divulged. I hope it is only one.

As for what might have happened had Son not been sent off, I don’t just think it was our players he’d need to worry about. The crowd wanted blood (figuratively speaking).

David Currie
62 Posted 04/11/2019 at 19:29:24
Steve 36, I was there when the shithouse Marwood done Heath, Reid got revenge and was booked. Heath at the time was playing superbly and on the verge of the England squad, he came back after a long spell out but was never as good as before the injury. Reid and Heath were big mates so naturally Reidy wanted revenge.
Mark Guglielmo
63 Posted 04/11/2019 at 19:51:07
Thanks Steve, if that is indeed the case, it IS as horrible as the injury, full stop. They don't have to be mutually exclusive. They can both be horrible.

Oh well, hope Everton FC find him and he'll get what he deserves, which is a lifetime ban.

Minik Hansen
64 Posted 04/11/2019 at 19:54:29
I wrote this little verse for Gomes:

André Gomes
He will boss the midfield
We promise
Came from Barca
Now Goodison is
his fortress
André Gomes
Back to show who's
the strongest

Steve Barr
65 Posted 04/11/2019 at 20:49:01
Minik,

You’re a poet and you don’t know it!

Steve Ferns
66 Posted 04/11/2019 at 21:13:42
Nice one, Minik.

I like our Gomes song and wish we'd sing it at Goodison: Link

He is a belter, different from the rest.
His name is André Gomes and he's nothing but the best.
He's our midfielder, the best we've ever seen.
Sign him from Barça and make the Toffees dream.

He is a belter!

Michael Connelly
67 Posted 04/11/2019 at 21:37:24
Every sympathy with the lad, although I think he has been part of the problem this season. Without Idrissa Gueye to do the mopping up, he needs 2 midfielders to cover him.

Generally good in possession, but gives it away too often at times and is too slow to get it back. Not much use when we don't have the ball. No goals or assists in the league this year I don't believe. I think Sigurdsson would be more effective in the role Gomes had yesterday.

Karen Mason
68 Posted 04/11/2019 at 21:38:25
I don't do social media, but will be sure to pass by Finch Farm to deliver a card for André. Can't deny that I shed a tear as our Blueboy was carried from the pitch.

I'm so upset for him. As Steve Ferns points out, his road to recovery will be a lonely one at times.

Please make sure we stay in touch by whichever means possible, to let him know we are there for him. Not just this week, but as long as he is recovering. I did with Seamus too.

Not sure if Toffee webbers will agree, but for me, our team improved hugely upon the return of André after his rib injury. He brought forward passing, creativity & a look of class to our midfield.

The prognosis from the medics sound positive, so I look forward to seeing our class act back in his Blue match shirt in the not too distant months ahead. I miss him already.

Lev Vellene
69 Posted 04/11/2019 at 21:43:54
Who do we have in the U23s to step up for the bench (at least)? Delph, Schneiderlin, Davies and Sigurdsson are a quite small pool of players to compete for the three usual places!

Schneiderlin seems like a shoo-in from the manager's point of view, but I hope him being miffed at being described as 'negative' will make him more lively with forwards passes, if so!

Christy Ring
70 Posted 04/11/2019 at 22:03:08
I'd bring Beni Baningime up from the U23s, Unsworth is raving about him, says he's too good for them, a bit of freshness. But sadly Silva won't play the younger players.
David Pearl
71 Posted 04/11/2019 at 22:04:09
Karen,

Good thoughts. In Gana, Davies, Besic, Macca we seemed a bit samey but Gomes definitely gave us a different dimension in the middle.

Next game, I want to see Schneiderin or Delph sat behind a buzzing lwobi and Davies. With Richarlison, Tosun and Walcott up top.

Hahaaaargggh what would Silva do, that age-old question. I wonder, if we make a change in manager, if the new guy will take 18 months to assess his squad and tactics?

Kieran Kinsella
72 Posted 04/11/2019 at 22:04:56
Portuguese sport surgeon on TV reckons if there are no healing complications then he will be back in 3 - 5 months.
David Pearl
73 Posted 04/11/2019 at 22:06:46
Christy, talking of younger players, do you think Baines will play a single minute this season (after signing his extension). I mean, what was the point?
Brian Wilkinson
74 Posted 04/11/2019 at 22:20:55
Here's food for thought in regards to the midfield, as most will know Silva will not play Baningime or any of the other youngsters, the two youngsters he does seem to give game time to are Calvert-Lewin and Davies.

Many will already know that Calvert-Lewin's position from school boy to even breaking into the first team at Sheffield Utd is in midfield and has been tried out as a forward. He is hardly pulling trees up in attack, he is doing all the right things, but in the wrong areas, so why not give the guy a run out in his natural position in midfield and give Tosun a run out as a striker or even Moise Kean, he has to be a better option than Schneiderlin.

We just need to try something different.

Jamie Crowley
75 Posted 04/11/2019 at 22:32:54
Daniel @ 45 -

Do you need to have been a professional boxer to pass judgement on someone hitting someone else? Playing the game previously isn't a prerequisite to pass judgement on a malicious tackle.

Lunacy, for me, is not seeing the intent in Son's tackle.

Opinions.

And my points are all rational and explained. Emotion doesn't negate a point, or make it irrational. What's irrational is discounting a point based upon the veracity / level of emotion of its presentation.

Opinions presented with passion may not be your cup of tea, but it certainly doesn't invalidate the opinion in question.

If you don't agree, then ignore. Many have, many will, many will continue to do so. Won't affect me in the least.

Karen @ 68 - that was a lovely post. Well said.

Mike Gaynes
76 Posted 04/11/2019 at 23:09:03
Delighted to read this news. The possibility of him playing next summer probably means that the surgery was successful and found comparatively little soft-tissue damage, and nothing to the nerves or vascular system. Bones do heal. Cheers, André, we'll be waiting to welcome you back.

Mark #47, great catch. And yes, that man is pure class.

Kieran #56, I'm happy to say you're mistaken about Oviedo. It took four years, but he did return to his best. He made the Costa Rica World Cup squad in 2018, had a fine season for Sunderland and then was absolutely brilliant for Costa Rica in last summer's Gold Cup – MotM against Mexico. So happy endings do happen.

Hugh Jenkins
77 Posted 04/11/2019 at 23:19:59
Personally, I am just about fed up to the back teeth with the "Racist Abuse" political correctness.

I don't judge anyone by their colour race nor creed – just what sort of person they are, if I meet them.

I do abhor anyone that does make judgements of people and their personalities based on colour, race or creed.

However, I also think that, in this day and age, people are far too quick to hide behind the PC shield for things that are often nothing more than "banter".

If I had a pound for every time I've been called a "Welsh [add your own expletive]", I'd be very rich. If I had to pay a pound for every time I have returned the "compliment" to friends who were, English, Scottish, Irish or any other nationality, then the fortune I could have made would have disappeared.

Malicious racism, I have no time for – but I think we all need to start growing slightly thicker skins and remember the saying "Sticks and stones might break my bones, but names will never hurt me".

What next? Every Welshman bleating if he is called 'Taffy'? Or the Scots being called 'Jock'? Or the Irish 'Paddy'? Where will it all end?

Brent Stephens
78 Posted 04/11/2019 at 23:29:07
Christy #70 "I'd bring Beni up from the U23s, Unsworth is raving about him, says he's too good for them".

I think he's the best U23 midfielder this season and the end of last season. Onyango is one to keep an eye on – only 16 but already playing the full 90 minutes at U23 and at least holding his own.

Ash Moore
79 Posted 04/11/2019 at 23:29:17
I suggest a perspective transplant for many on here. The lad got hurt playing football. He will receive the best of care and the medical men have already said he will make a full recovery.

I wish him the best, but I shalln't be sending him a card or stalking on him on social media in the hope his PR team likes my post. That's asinine almost beyond belief.

I used to think this fan base was intelligent, rational and deserved on-field success more than every other clubs'. I was massively wrong in that view. Reading the threads following the Spurs game, I only see a hysterical, largely unintelligent, ancient and boring group whom I myself feel faintly embarrassed to be associated with.

I used to wonder why my 12-year-old and his peers are entirely uninterested in football but the last few weeks on here have been hugely illustrative in this regard.

A bunch of saddos sending sympathy cards to a total stranger multi-millionaire footballer who, as has already been stated, got hurt playing football and will make a full recovery. It's so cringe-worthy and it's so pathetic that children see straight through it.

No wonder the likes of Eugene Ruane and Ken Buckley can't be bothered coming here any more. It's a game chaps, you need to act your mainly considerable ages and take it as one.

I'll be following in so many other posters footsteps and vacating this site. The failed lawyer, the fellow with too much time in Brazil and the seppos can have it to themselves. Misery loves company they say, it's certainly the case on ToffeeWeb.

Peter Gorman
81 Posted 05/11/2019 at 00:07:18
Whilst this is good news, I would temper it with the knowledge that 'full recovery' is a medical term used to describe a lack of medical complications – it doesn't tell us anything about his chances of getting back to pre-injury levels of ability.

Coleman could testify to this, and he wouldn't be the first.

Gbamin, Bernard and now Gomes – are we as cursed by Satan as much as the RS are blessed?

I'd love to see Davies and Baningime getting game time under the circumstances but am fully expecting more Schneiderlin.

Ernie Baywood
84 Posted 05/11/2019 at 00:45:00
And Spurs have appealed the red. I hope the authorities give a proper answer when extending the ban so all the MotD commenters can stop with the "so every tackle could now be a red card" nonsense.

It's pretty simple - you are responsible for what you intentionally cause. Intent doesn't mean you have to desire the exact consequence of your act.

If a player genuinely challenges for the ball and commits an unintentional foul that causes a freak injury then I'd absolutely defend them.

If a player doesn't go for the ball then they are absolutely responsible for any ensuing injury. That was Son. Most of the time it's a yellow for a petulant chopping down of an opponent -– but if that person is seriously hurt as a direct result, then it's only right to consider that in the punishment.

The next mark on the scale is the player who deliberately tries to maim and achieves their goal – if we see anything like that nowadays, it should be a life ban.

David Pearl
85 Posted 05/11/2019 at 00:51:02
Agree Ernie, Roy Keane should have been banned for a start. Bad form from Spurs l think. He went for the man. If Gomes's injury wasn't severe, it would've just been the usual yellow. Which is what's given for a tug of the shirt nowadays.

Looking forward to the next game now so we can all talk about something else.

Mark Guglielmo
86 Posted 05/11/2019 at 00:55:35
Ernie correct me if I'm wrong because for me, this is uncharted territory. Aren't cards and their severity only based on the action not the outcome in football?

Btw, in case the other 328 times I've said this were ignored, I believed this to be a red card from the get-go.

But I was under the impression that any ensuing injury doesn't actually matter, it's only the foul itself that is considered when giving the card. In this situation, Atkinson was wrong in originally giving a yellow, but I don't think the injury had anything to do with the adjustment to red.

What do I know, I'm just a seppo lol (I had to Google that and then realized I am one 😭)

Ernie Baywood
87 Posted 05/11/2019 at 01:49:47
Mark, the rule makers have confirmed that the severity of an injury is taken into account.

So it's a red. What I'm talking about is what I think is right. And I still believe it warrants a red card.

He also didn't show a yellow. Yeah he got it out of his pocket - but he didn't show it.

Darren Hind
91 Posted 05/11/2019 at 05:28:53
Consequences.

First season of going the match on our own, we would always take a left when we got to the bottom of the valley. Stop off at the Pick n Mix for sweets to enjoy throughout the match.

Nobody ever had any money to pay, but that was a minor detail. Me mates mam and auntie worked there and we were always able to grab a handful and be on our way.

One time we got there and they were not working. Fuck! We couldnt very well go the match without a pocket full of sweets. So we helped ourselves anyway. Suddenly I heard somebody shout "Eh you, you little bastards" –in blind panic we scattered. As I ran out of the door, an arl woman was coming in (when I think back she was about 40, but anyone older than your mam was considered an "arl woman". We collided with such force I knocked her to her ground.

Fifty yards dolliown the road I stopped. My demeanor was exactly the same as Son's. I was full of remorse and fear. I didn't mean to hurt her, but I knew that if I hadn't have been such a thieving little bastard it would never have happened... She might be dead! I had to go back. When I got back she was on her feet. Relieved. I repeatedly apologised and kept asking if she was okay.

She held out her left hand smiling, forgiving and said. "give me the sweets". I thought she was going to put them back, so meekly handed them to her. I then felt searing pain as she smashed a right-hander into my face, spreading my nose all over it.

"Apology accepted" she said, as she walked away with me sweets.

I don't count sheep when I can't sleep. I count the number of lessons I learned that day and usually by the time I get to lesson number 10-11 I'm off.

All these arguments about rescinding Son's red card or throwing the book at him. Giving him a shorter or extra ban.. Maybe we have a far simpler solution.

Stick him in a room with an angry scouse woman and let natural justice take its course.

Derek Knox
92 Posted 05/11/2019 at 06:35:32
Darren, great story and your punishment/retribution was more painful than a Red Card! And not having the comfort of sucking a sweet to dull the pain. :-)
Martin Berry
96 Posted 05/11/2019 at 08:53:00
Despite the injury, it's great news that Andre will make a full recovery from the diagnosis and operation.

That said, I hope he is given sufficient time to make a successful rehabilitation and given patience by the fans when he eventually puts on the blue shirt for the first team, that goes for Gbamin too.

Tony Hill
97 Posted 05/11/2019 at 10:00:35
There's a rather more sober analysis, albeit of a general kind, by a medical Prof reported in the Echo. Obviously, much depends on the details of Gomes's injury.

We can only hope.

Jay Wood
[BRZ]

98 Posted 05/11/2019 at 10:16:15
Thanks for pointing that out, Tony. A very sobering read indeed.

Link

Whilst "significant improvement in function in 6 months to 1 year following surgery" is likely, the nature of this injury can "considerably delay the full functional recovery (potentially up to 24 months)."

He also highlights the need for psychological support for Andre as "around 5%-19% of athletes experience high levels of psychological distress following serious injuries comparable to those receiving intervention for mental health illness."

Not happy reading.

Brian Williams
99 Posted 05/11/2019 at 10:17:36
I prefer to go with the positive reports! :-)
Jay Wood
[BRZ]

100 Posted 05/11/2019 at 10:22:13
And I prefer to take a balanced view, Brian, and read from experts in their given field on any subject.
Steve Ferns
101 Posted 05/11/2019 at 10:28:33
Thanks for the links to the echo article. This is more in line with my thinking. The mental side of it, and the troubles André has had in the past, is why I suggested that people who want to wish him well actually do so. I note Ash Moore’s opinion of such action, but despite his views a lot of us have affection for the men who are the boys in blue, and if we can help one of our players in his time in need then I think we should. If you think it’s silly, then don’t bother.

As for telling a player he had a great game on Twitter being akin to stalking, really? The guys have social media to engage with the fans and if we fans want to send a message of support or congratulations, then what’s wrong with that?

Francis van Lierop
111 Posted 05/11/2019 at 12:56:19
Best wishes, André, get well soon!
Martin Nicholls
112 Posted 05/11/2019 at 13:25:54
Mark Guglielmo @63 – you've been a breath of fresh air since you began posting on this site Mark and I enjoy reading much of what you write.

However, I have to take issue with your comment: "Thanks Steve, if that is indeed the case, it IS as horrible as the injury, full stop." As horrible as the injury? I doubt Gomes would agree with you!

Imagine the conversation "Neither are very nice, André, but would you rather someone call you a Portuguese prick, or have then break and dislocate your ankle? – reply "They're both as horrible as each other so I'm not really bothered!"

As Hugh @77 says – "sticks and stones etc".

Incidentally, the Red Echo reports that the police have said that "no crime was committed" and adds that they were investigating "a gesture", not a "comment".

We need to remember that Gomes was the victim here, not Son. Get better soon, André.

Stan Schofield
118 Posted 05/11/2019 at 15:10:55
Regarding this business of focusing on Son being upset (assuming he was upset, and not just play acting, given his obvious ability to play act with other shenanigans) and people supposedly hurling abuse at him.

My mum (God bless her) used to tell me "Sticks and stones will break your bones, but names will never hurt you". In this sense, I'd rather be called ANYTHING unpleasant imaginable than have my ankle broken.

My sympathies lie wholly with Gomes, and as far as I'm concerned Son deserves no sympathy whatsoever including for the supposed abuse hurled at him. I would like to see him punished sufficiently for that punishment to be seen as a deterrent to the kind of action he took, regardless of whether he intended to injure.

Trevor Peers
119 Posted 05/11/2019 at 15:32:47
Mark#117
Good luck with your quest to visit Goodison sometime in the future. It is interesting how a New Yorker has such a passion for the blues.

I was indoctrinated into the Blue half by my father back in the 1950's and have been lucky enough to have seen many famous Everton victories, perhaps that is why it is so difficult for me to see them struggling for so many years now without success.

It must be baffling for you to read how there are so many diverse opinions in one forum. One thing is for sure though we all, as you do, have one thing in common, our love for Everton.

Rob Halligan
120 Posted 05/11/2019 at 15:37:35
The official Everton site are reporting that Gomes has already been released from hospital. I find that surprisingly rather quick, considering his surgery was only yesterday, and surely he must still be in some discomfort of pain?

Then again, never having been through what Gomes has, this may be the norm, I don't know?

Mike Gaynes
121 Posted 05/11/2019 at 15:37:51
I continue to learn new words on TW. I'm a seppo! Who knew?

With regards to the suggested "perspective transplant", I'll pass... in preference to the self-administered "Ash-ectomy" we've just seen.

Rob #120, the quick release would generally be consistent with an uncomplicated repair of a simple fracture -- and an absence of vascular, nerve or extensive soft-tissue damage. I'd certainly take it as a good sign.

Darren #91, great story. I never knew you had met my Aunt Rhoda.

Mike Gaynes
122 Posted 05/11/2019 at 15:40:42
Stan #118, I get that you're pissed off, and I agree with your view regarding sympathy for Son, but there is no reason or justification in my opinion for insinuating that Son's emotional reaction was staged or acted. Like those of Delph, Aurier, Tosun, Digne and others in the immediate vicinity, it was clearly a genuine expression of shock, horror and, in his case, guilt.

I think your comment is way out of line.

Kieran Kinsella
123 Posted 05/11/2019 at 15:48:50
Rob 120

These days they don't like keeping people in hospital longer than they have to. The "super bugs" put people like Andre at risk as he might get necrotizing fasciitis and have to have his leg amputated.

James Marshall
124 Posted 05/11/2019 at 15:59:12
I had a similar injury from a climbing accident, actually a falling accident, well in truth a landing accident, but you get the picture. I didn't climb again for a year, and recovery we super slow post-op. The main problem was ligaments, not so much the bones - mine was broken in 12 places and snapped 3 ligaments.

Gomes will likely get better rehab than I did, although I had private healthcare and was well looked after it'll be slow going. The ankle joint is a complex bit of kit and I lost a fair bit of mobility in mine. The range of movement is not what it was, which is the real issue with recovery and the way the bones heal, especially for an athlete.

James Marshall
125 Posted 05/11/2019 at 16:03:46
Oh, and as for the surgery and release from hospital - as I recall I didn't even stay in overnight for my surgery (I've had about 8 operations so my memory is hazy). The days of being kept in for days on end are long gone so Gomes will have been discharged pretty much straight away.

It's only ankle surgery, nothing to worry about like a back op or internal organ surgery - it's not a big deal is terms of hospitalisation and bed space so he can go home and chill out no problem.

Mark Guglielmo
126 Posted 05/11/2019 at 16:08:49
Trevor @119 "It must be baffling for you to read how there are so many diverse opinions in one forum. One thing is for sure though we all, as you do, have one thing in common, our love for Everton."

Yes we do, the most important part.

But the first part was funny! I was thinking it must be baffling for many here as to why this brash, loud, opinionated Yank was word-vomiting all over ToffeeWhinge (sorry, that still cracks me up)!

Stan Schofield
128 Posted 05/11/2019 at 16:34:14
Mike122: You're right. Just pissed off.
Jack Convery
129 Posted 05/11/2019 at 16:42:50
I see Andre Gomes has been released from hospital. Hopefully being with family will raise his spirits. Here's to you Andre and a speedy recovery - come back soon.
Liam Reilly
133 Posted 05/11/2019 at 17:19:09
Good to see him out of hospital so quick - can only be a good sign as there can't have been any complications.

I wouldn't expect to see him back before pre-season, though class is permanent and he doesn't rely on speed, so there's every chance he could come back the same player. Will undoubtedly be a difficult time mentally but he's got Seamus for support.

I know there's clamor for Davies to take the Gomes role but I thought they complemented each other on Sunday so wondering if this could be an opportunity for Sigurdsson to step back into a deeper role where he could effect the game more?

Gary Mortimer
134 Posted 05/11/2019 at 17:30:00
Unbelievably Son's red card has been overturned.

Son deliberately and cynically took Andre out, without any thought about the consequences. . . . Andre is out for months and he doesn't even miss a game; he has basically missed 25 minutes.

Just doesn't seem right to me.

Paul Jeronovich
135 Posted 05/11/2019 at 17:36:35
Shithousery by the FA to overturn Son’s red card. If the roles were reversed the Everton player would have been hit with an increased 10 game ban !!!
Steve Ferns
136 Posted 05/11/2019 at 17:37:12
Delph might not have Gomes elegance but he’s the most similar to Gomes in our squad. Davies could work well with Delph who will defend with more discipline than Gomes and get forwards less.
Steve Ferns
137 Posted 05/11/2019 at 17:38:38
Paul, maximum bad for dangerous play is three games isn’t it. That’d have done for me. I expected it to be overturned. It is Everton afterall. Also, what does it matter, we get no benefit from the ban?
Rob Dolby
138 Posted 05/11/2019 at 17:46:24
The FA overturning the red card condones the shithouse tackle regardless of its consequences to the opposing player.

I think it's pretty poor form from Spurs but the whole thing doesn't surprise me. The game is rotten to the core.

Rob Halligan
139 Posted 05/11/2019 at 17:48:36
Steve, very true. We get absolutely no benefit whatsoever by this decision being overturned. The only benefit to us came on Sunday when spurs were down to ten men. Had Son not been sent off who knows what influence he, or a substitute had Son been withdrawn, may have had in the remainder of the game? We will never know of course, but we may not have got our equaliser while still playing against eleven men.
John G Davies
140 Posted 05/11/2019 at 18:06:38
Speedy recovery Andre.

Red card rescinded is the correct outcome.
I said so straight after the game. Watching it back my opinion hasn't changed.

Mark Guglielmo
141 Posted 05/11/2019 at 18:07:05
I really can't believe it was overturned.

Honestly, even if they (mistakenly IMO) thought the foul itself didn't constitute a red, I'm shocked they opened themselves up to even more scrutiny and rumors of corruption here, in such a widely reported incident that very clearly was in the public eye. Shocked.

Kevin Jones
144 Posted 05/11/2019 at 18:38:49
The FA or Premier League are an absolute disgrace. I wouldn’t wish Andres injury on anyone, but let’s imagine Son did that to Mo Salah, does anyone think it would have been rescinded. No, of course it wouldn’t, it would have been a longer ban, 15 page pull out in all the papers a Sky Sports special and a minutes fucking silence at all grounds next Saturday. Fucking tosses the lot of them. Son kicked Andre and André broke his ankle full stop
James Marshall
145 Posted 05/11/2019 at 18:39:32
It was never a red card - the ref/VAR changed his/their minds when they saw the bad injury, but all Son did was trip him from behind - yellow card. Correct decision overturning the red.

Aurier caused the injury, not Son, but his tackle wasn't a red either - just because a player gets a bad injury doesn't mean it's definitely a red card. It was a very specific set of circumstances that caused the injury, a combination of many things.

If Son or Aurier was banned for 3 games, Andre Gomes would still have a broken ankle.

James Marshall
146 Posted 05/11/2019 at 18:41:06
What I forgot to add was, if you start giving red cards for those 2 challenges in isolation, football is dead. You can't give a red card (or a yellow card) based on the outcome of a tackle/injury caused. That's not how the game works.
Paul Jeronovich
147 Posted 05/11/2019 at 18:43:12
Kevin Jones - spot on.
Andrew Hight
148 Posted 05/11/2019 at 18:45:19
It was never a challenge worthy of a red card. If it was an EFC player we’d have all screamed blue murder if it was not rescinded. I used to take pride that our fans were a knowledgeable lot who didn’t give in to hyperbole. Seems like we are no different than any other club unfortunately
David Pearl
149 Posted 05/11/2019 at 18:49:08
The challenge itself was a yellow, just like shirt pulling is. Taking one for the team? Nah he was out for revenge. Not as if Gomes would of been through or clear from that point. FA strike again

Mark,
lm more shocked that Spurs applied to overturn it in the first place.

Steve Ferns
150 Posted 05/11/2019 at 18:49:41
I was delighted at the equaliser. But I found it strange when Tosun went into the crowd. I found it stranger at the way the players have been celebrating the comeback to draw. We should be relieved to draw, not celebrating it. And all this “did it for André” makes no sense either. I think Gomes deserved a win not a draw. I didn’t like that.
Jay Harris
151 Posted 05/11/2019 at 18:50:07
I would give a red for any taaackle from behind especially cynical ones.

It is a disgrace that Atkinson didnt even give us a free kick for the trip on Richy when he was virtually clean through but lets not forget this is one of the sky 6 and the operate under different rules.

Also goes to show Spurs remorse was false as they insensitively appealed the red immediately after the game.

Sky, referees and the FA has to be the most corrupt and immoral gang in sport.

Eric Paul
152 Posted 05/11/2019 at 18:51:59
Son did the damage with the initial foul Gomes’ foot stuck in the turf and twisted as a result of the foul Aurier just made it worse
Gary Mortimer
153 Posted 05/11/2019 at 18:53:51
James 145

"all Son did was trip him from behind"

Deliberately and cynically without going for the ball.

Red card 100%.

For Andre, the season is over.

For Son, pat on the head: "Sorry we sent you off, lad. You can play again at the weekend."

Fucking disgrace.

James Marshall
154 Posted 05/11/2019 at 18:55:00
Fellow blues - with the utmost respect, an awful lot of you are talking complete bollocks. I don't mean to engage anyone in an argument, but a lot of what you're all saying is nonsense.
James Marshall
155 Posted 05/11/2019 at 18:56:33
Gary@153

Players do that all the time, ours, theirs, everyone, at all levels. You can't give red cards for tripping people up. You also can't give red cards for players who get injured. I've said it already, that's not how football has, or ever will work.

Go and look at the rules. Seriously gents, look it up. It's not rocket science.

James Stewart
156 Posted 05/11/2019 at 18:56:49
Regardless of yellow or red, the FA are an utter shambles. Decisions appealed and overturned every week, the goal posts of var constantly shifting, very quickly losing interest in the whole game at present.
Mike Gaynes
157 Posted 05/11/2019 at 19:00:34
James #145 and Eric #152, the video shows otherwise.
Gary Mortimer
158 Posted 05/11/2019 at 19:04:11
James @155

"Go and look at the rules". Frankly I don't give a toss about the rules. I know what I saw on Sunday and it wasn't an accidental trip and it resulted in Andre's ankle being smashed.

The fact that the FA have let him off with a 23 minute ban just proves that crocodile tears work.

Asked about Son today "He is OK. He was devastated after the action. It was a mixture of everything. After a few days, he is in a very good way," said Pochettino.

Darren Hind
159 Posted 05/11/2019 at 19:05:03
In the same post

"You cant give red cards for tripping people up"

And

"Go and look at the rules. Seriously gents. look it up, its not rocket science.

Clearly not

James Marshall
160 Posted 05/11/2019 at 19:09:47
You don't care about the rules but you want the guy red carded? OK, excellent reasoning.

Darren - you know I have nothing to say to you. Ever.

Darren Hind
161 Posted 05/11/2019 at 19:10:43
Again

Clearly not

Jay Harris
162 Posted 05/11/2019 at 19:11:54
James can you name anytime we have ever had a decision overturned or something given in our favour.

But it happens with the sky darlings every week.

Football has become so cynical, corrupt and immoral.

James Marshall
163 Posted 05/11/2019 at 19:12:05
Mike Gaynes@ 157

I'm not sure what you've been watching, Mike, but it's a very different video to the one I've seen. Also the photos, and the backup of every single ex pro, and indeed our very own players, WHO WERE THERE, saying to Son and Spurs that it wasn't his fault.

It was an accident. Nothing more.

Shane Corcoran
164 Posted 05/11/2019 at 19:13:37
Can anyone tell me where in the rules the decision to send Son off is justified?

Simple question. No need to tell me how everyone’s out to get poor Everton or all the other stuff that is littered through the site on a regular basis.

James Marshall
165 Posted 05/11/2019 at 19:13:53
Jay - you can play that card all you like. Both me and the FA/PL and everyone else with a view other than you Evertonians with your blue specs on, know it was an accidentally caused injury.

I was heartbroken for Gomes when it happened, but the truth is it was an accident.

Eric Paul
166 Posted 05/11/2019 at 19:24:09
Mike one photo shows otherwise, it shows it for what it was, a cynical foul regardless of the injury. It used to be called retaliation which was a sending off offence then there had to be intent to be a red which there was but now the colour of the card depends on consequences. How bad do the consequences have to be for it to be red and stay red?
Kevin Jones
168 Posted 05/11/2019 at 19:37:11
James, did Son mean to break Andres ankle, absolutely not. Did the trip cause him to break his ankle, absolutely yes. If Son doesn’t trip André the injury doesn’t occur, simple.
Ernie Baywood
169 Posted 05/11/2019 at 19:37:40
Shane 164 There aren't as many rules as you'd think. There are interpretations, though, that get communicated to clubs. They communicate how referees will interpret certain incidents with respect to red cards. For example, you won't find "studs up" in any rule book.

The referees had clearly said that where a player endangers another a player, they will take the seriousness of an injury into account.

And rightly so, in my mind. It's a very basic premise that if you do something unlawful then you are still culpable for the outcome. A punishment of three games was reasonable.

They were still saying that up to yesterday. Now they've changed their mind. The inconsistency continues and it's baffling. Every week we have a new set of retrospective guidelines applied to the game. Handball or not,
VAR intervention or not, bans for simulation or not...

So, presumably, to get a red card now you would have to attempt to maim a player and actually achieve it. I'd argue that would be far worse than just a red card - it's a case for the courts and a huge ban.

Don Alexander
170 Posted 05/11/2019 at 19:38:06
Son committed a yellow-card foul in my opinion, Andre's studs immediately seemed to get caught in the turf as a consequence and Aurier arrived a nano-second later unable to alter the type of collision because it ALL happened in a split-second. It's horrific to Andre, horrible for our season but, to me, was just one of those accidents that sometimes unfortunately occur in contact games.

As an example from another sport the English prop-forward Sinkler was laid out cold two minutes into Saturday's Rugby Union world cup final. He had to be subbed, permanently. The sub was then royally mullered in the 78 minutes that ensued, causing us to concede five scrum penalties that set South Africa up for a comprehensive win, but the thing was, Sinkler had been trying to tackle a South African runner when the blow that laid him out accidentally came from the leg of an England player also trying to tackle the same South African. It was a complete, game-changing accident and should be classified in the unfortunate (but true) term "shit happens".

That said, Atkinson showed himself up to be the amateurish, inadequate referee I've long believed him to be by the way he ended up dealing with the episode, and others in the match, all those others going to the advantage of our opponent.

Shane Corcoran
171 Posted 05/11/2019 at 19:38:25
Eric, a cynical foul is a yellow unless preventing a goal scoring opportunity.

Where are you getting the bit about consequences?

Eric Paul
172 Posted 05/11/2019 at 19:40:54
The fad words not mine Shane when explaining why it was a red
Andy Crooks
173 Posted 05/11/2019 at 19:41:15
In work I read most newspapers. I have been appalled on the victimhood awarded to Son. Traumatised, so he fucking should be. I am not changing my view that it was a foul with desperate consequences, however, he is a cheat, a diving conniving cheat. I think that is worse than shithouse. A cheat who should suffer guilt and shame at what his cheating caused. The cheat should be banned for a significant time and use it for his counselling. For the love of fuck, a cheat gets free counselling. The world is mad.
Billy Roberts
174 Posted 05/11/2019 at 19:48:00
Ash Moore @79
Shut the door on the way out please.
Misery loves company eh ? You sound like a fuckin hoot.
Chris Leyland
175 Posted 05/11/2019 at 19:51:21
So, if I push you over on the pavement and you slip and get run over by a car then it’s not my fault as I didn’t mean for you to get run over by the car and I shouldn’t face and consequence my for my actions?
Shane Corcoran
176 Posted 05/11/2019 at 19:53:04
Eric, not sure what your post means.

Andy, weren’t you backing our very own cheat Richarlison on another thread?

Ernie, understand what you mean about directives but if someone pulls a jersey causing the player to fall and break his teeth off one of his own players’ boots should the jersey puller get a red on today’s rules/directives? I think not.

Bring in reds for every foul where there’s no effort to play the ball by all means. But I think Son is entitled to play the next game as he committed what I’m sure he thought was both a yellow card offence and an offence that wouldn’t result in such an injury.

Mike Gaynes
177 Posted 05/11/2019 at 19:53:17
James #163, I agree with you.

I was disagreeing with your statement at #145 that "Aurier caused the injury, not Son, but his tackle wasn't a red either" -- actually, Aurier did not cause the injury or put in a tackle. Gomes slid into him. I've seen differing reports on whether Gomes caught his cleats or broke his leg impacting Aurier's shin, but Aurier was an innocent bystander. In fact, he went down so quickly from the collision that when I heard the crack on the field mic (clearly audible on TV), I thought for an instant that it was he, not Gomes, who had been injured.

Eric Paul
178 Posted 05/11/2019 at 19:55:24
Should read FA Shane
Gary Mortimer
179 Posted 05/11/2019 at 19:55:35
Andy @173. See my post earlier Poch has said Son is in "a very good way".

He has just been absolved of all blame by the FA (and, strangely, some on here) and, as such, he officially needs to suffer no guilt or shame. He was temporarily upset on Sunday as, in my opinion, he realised his retaliation had seriously injured another player.

Last year Jagilka was sent off against Wolves for taking the ball and then catching opposing player in the follow through. The opposing player wasn't injured, but he was red carded. This was not rescinded.

Some people are saying that if red cards were awarded for these types of tackles then there would be 3 or 4 red cards every game. Clearly there aren't many tackles where the tackler isn't going for the ball that result in a similar injury to the one that Andre has suffered, but when they do happen, then I would expect a red card.

Unfortunately for Andre Gomes his season is over.

For Son. . . absolutely nothing.

Matt Butlin
180 Posted 05/11/2019 at 19:57:13
Cynical revengefulness from Son, corruption and FA horse shite aside. We need this to be the spark that lights a fire under our players arses. Just like they reacted to the Gomes injury. Just like when Phil Neville cleaned out Ronaldo.
Darren Hind
181 Posted 05/11/2019 at 19:58:04
Accidental retaliation
Julian Wait
182 Posted 05/11/2019 at 19:59:14
Shane #164
This time change was very publicly enforced during France 98 and I am not aware of it being reversed

Link

Ernie Baywood
183 Posted 05/11/2019 at 20:01:03
Shane 176 I can't really speak to the directives as, let's face it, FIFA, the PL, and the PGMOL have tried to codify things to a point where no common sense is required. I'd assume pulling a shirt wouldn't be seen as serious foul play, so the consequence wouldn't come into it.

In legal terms it comes down to whether a reasonable man would understand that the outcome could have been a consequence of the act.

In the case of pulling a shirt, I wouldn't have thought serious injury was a likely outcome.

But if you jump across and kick someone (no-one disputes that's what Son did?) then it's perfectly reasonable to think it could cause an injury. Isn't it?

Tony Abrahams
184 Posted 05/11/2019 at 20:03:50
Jay@162, I remember Everton getting Rodwell’s red card overturned, but they had to appeal all those years ago because Martin Atkinson never even had the grace to say that he’d made a monumental mistake.

Atkinson apparently overruled Firmino’s goal on Saturday, and was then allowed to referee a game 24 hrs later, or was it he was in the studio for the Watford game and decided to give Delafoe a ridiculous penalty?

Either way he’s not fit to referee, and definitely not fit to referee Everton, because it’s obvious he hates us and that’s why it’s imperative that these VAR officials, should be made to explain their decisions in a similar way to Rugby Union.

I’m sure he will get us back for making Spurs play with ten men, and even my Liverpudlian mate has agreed that I’m not a paranoid schizophrenic now with regards to Martin Atkinson, but think of the damage he will do to Everton in the future, if a Mike is not put inside these VAR control rooms, because their still controlling us now with ineptitude and deceit, whatever way you want to look at things imo.

Julian Wait
185 Posted 05/11/2019 at 20:07:51
Here's the exact text from IFAB RULES. 2018-19

Serious foul play
A tackle or challenge that endangers the safety of an opponent or uses
excessive force or brutality must be sanctioned as serious foul play.
Any player who lunges at an opponent in challenging for the ball from the
front, from the side or from behind using one or both legs, with excessive force
or endangers the safety of an opponent is guilty of serious foul play.

Shane Corcoran
187 Posted 05/11/2019 at 20:10:15
Ernie it could of course but almost any foul could set off a series of events which result in an injury. A tap to the ankle for example. If Gomes had landed slightly differently we wouldn’t be having the conversation.

Point taken but I think Gomes was just really really unlucky and Son was due a yellow.

Maybe my opinion differs from the rules.

Rob Halligan
188 Posted 05/11/2019 at 20:11:14
Tony, if you want paranoia, what about this. Lee Mason, who has given more penalties against Everton than any other referee, was educated at Hope University, less than a ten minute walk from where I live, and by all accounts, he had a RS season ticket while he was there. Another referee who seems to have it in for Everton.

Now I know he was born in Bolton, but I wonder where his allegiance really lies in terms of who he supports?

John Keating
189 Posted 05/11/2019 at 20:16:00
Tell you what Rob if that's true about that bastard having a RS season ticket while at Hope then he should be kicked out asap !!
That's unbelievable
Mike Gaynes
190 Posted 05/11/2019 at 20:21:31
Julian #185, the question is about what "endangers the safety of an opponent" -- whether it's the tackle itself or the outcome. Gomes was injured as a result of the foul, but not by the tackle itself -- Son didn't break his leg with his studs, the way Taylor did with Seamus. Certainly there was no excessive force, no high foot, no studs showing.

I tore my Achilles five months ago. Two of us went for the ball, I got the touch, he accidentally stepped on my heel. Foul, like I've been fouled a thousand times before. This time, however, season over, maybe done with football for good. But should the guy have been sent off because his otherwise innocuous challenge had such a catastrophic result? I don't think so.

Steve Ferns
191 Posted 05/11/2019 at 20:25:38
Rob, is this an urban legend rather than fact? Don’t all the refs get checked out and if he was a Season Ticket Holder then he’d show up on their checks.

I’d be surprised if he didn’t go the games when at uni though. When I was at uni, I had an Everton ST and went to all the home games, but I still went to a load of games for the east midland sides when we weren’t at home.

Christy Ring
192 Posted 05/11/2019 at 20:26:35
I think it stinks that Son's red card is overturned, he's free to play the next game, and Gomes next game will hopefully be next season. As Shake Hislop said as a pundit on ESPN, he should take responsibility, for the tackle that led to the injury as it wasn't an innocent challenge, he was fired up, and wanted to leave a mark.
Rob Halligan
193 Posted 05/11/2019 at 20:26:55
John I didn't know about him being at Hope, until somebody told me before the game on Sunday, when this same person also told me about the RS season ticket. I googled it there and then and sure enough, does say he attended Hope university. Obviously Google wouldn't mention the season ticket, but it really does make you wonder?
Rob Halligan
194 Posted 05/11/2019 at 20:33:44
I thought that Steve. All referees have to inform the premier league where their allegiances lie regarding who they support, but it's quite conceivable that Mason could have had a season ticket, or if not, obtained an on the day ticket. Either way, and if true, then he could have got a soft spot for the RS. Either way it's something we will never know.
Steve Ferns
195 Posted 05/11/2019 at 20:37:09
Maybe so Rob.
Stan Schofield
196 Posted 05/11/2019 at 20:43:59
Mike@190: Seems to me that 'endangers the safety' is a phrase open to interpretation. In my mind, an interpretation is 'increases the chances of injury significantly', perhaps meaning 'inducing a clearly increased prospect of injury', or something like that.

A skillful tackle, going for the ball, minimises the chances of injury. In contrast, if the tackle is not skillful and/or doesn't go for the ball, then the chances of injury are surely increased. Tackles from behind seem to be in this category, because going for the ball is often a non-starter.

If a tackle from behind is cynical, say for example it prevents a clear path to goal, then I think that can be a red card. If a tackle from behind is otherwise cynical, to stop a player progressing (say in midfield), then I think that could also be a red card. Why? Because it knowingly increases the chances of injury to the player significantly, which is something the rules surely try to prevent.

In this respect, it seems to me that Son deserved a red, not because of the actual outcome but because of the danger of that outcome. If Gomes had not been injured, perhaps Son should still have got a red.

Surely the rules could be applied with this degree of rigour without upsetting the flow of games that we wish to see. Indeed, such application might improve the flow by deterring layers from doing cynical interventions.

This issue dates back a long time, particularly during the late 60s and early 70s when Leeds Utd were habitually guilty of 'professional fouls'. In contrast (and I'm not puttimg blue specs on here, just being factual), Everton and some other sides did not do this (certainly not habitually), and the game was far better to watch as a result.

John Keating
197 Posted 05/11/2019 at 20:45:59
Thing is Rob he may well support whatever team, let's say Bolton where he's from, but having a season ticket at Anfield has to give him a reason to pull out of any Everton games or at least RS games.

I was at college in London for a year staying just around the corner from Upton Park. When I couldn't get home I would go to all the West Ham games with a load of local lads. Given me a bit of a soft spot for them ever since. Has too really.

Something like having a season ticket for a Club just has to exclude a ref, has too.

Stan Schofield
198 Posted 05/11/2019 at 20:54:50
John@197: It appears to be a 'potential conflict of interest', which I thought had to be revealed.
Rob Halligan
199 Posted 05/11/2019 at 20:58:52
John, totally agree, and as I said, there is no concrete evidence of mason having a season ticket. Also, don't forget, all this would have been before he took up refereeing, so I don't see what's to have stopped him attending RS matches. It's all hearsay anyway.
Tony Abrahams
200 Posted 05/11/2019 at 21:11:12
If Lee Mason can find a penalty for Brighton, then it’s not just Everton games he should be banned from, because ineptitude alone should be enough to keep him away from the EPL.

I am paranoid though Rob, how do we know Taylor wasn’t saying to Atkinson, “let’s leave these fuckers moaning a bit longer Martin, because I know you would never want me to award a penalty to Everton mate?

Maybe that is a bit far-fetched, (MAYBE ITS FUCKIN NOT!) but surely there’s nothing far-fetched about the spectators hearing what the decision maker has got to say from the VAR studios, and how he’s come to make his decision, because isn’t Mina supposed to apply pressure in the opposition’s area from a corner-kick? Because maybe next week if it’s Van Dyke or Maguire doing the challenging, then the hand-ball will probably result in a penalty kick?

Rob Halligan
201 Posted 05/11/2019 at 21:18:48
Tony, you're just getting ultra paranoid now!!
Oliver Molloy
202 Posted 05/11/2019 at 21:28:35
Chris @ 175
"So, if I push you over on the pavement and you slip and get run over by a car then it’s not my fault as I didn’t mean for you to get run over by the car and I shouldn’t face and consequence my for my actions?"

Well i'm no lawyer but I suspect you would be correct as your action would not be premeditated, same as Roy Keane claimed on that Haaland tackle ! lol

Andy Crooks
203 Posted 05/11/2019 at 21:29:55
Shane @176, I don't think that is quite true. On another thread I said that Richarlison was our only world class player. I ended the post by saying, " sadly, he is our diver", defending him? I think not.
Andrew James
204 Posted 06/11/2019 at 00:34:28
Tony and Rob

The biggest surprise to me is that Lee Mason went to University...

Andrew James
205 Posted 06/11/2019 at 00:39:19
Andy

I'm not sure he is a world class player yet. Too many of his shots end up in the keeper's arms.

Sadly we have about 4 or 5 "world class players" on their day.

Gylfi, Digne, Rich, Bernard and maybe Pickford. On their day.

The days aren't frequent enough.

Mike Gaynes
206 Posted 06/11/2019 at 05:16:12
Stan #196...

"If Gomes had not been injured, perhaps Son should still have got a red."

Sorry, but no way in hell. That would have been a ridiculous injustice. Under the rules, there was nothing to make that a red card foul. If Gomes had not been injured, we would not even be having this discussion. It would have been a routine professional foul yellow and forgotten ten seconds later.

For Son's foul to be a red card would require a change in the rules. And a change in the game that would make it resemble more of a ballet class.

Darren Hind
207 Posted 06/11/2019 at 05:58:18
Mike 190 Cant agree.

You only have to look as Son's reaction when he saw the consequences of his actions, that he didnt intend to break his leg.

This is my issue; There was no possible way Son could get to that ball, not even if he borrowed Mina's legs. It was very obviously a cynical and deliberate foul. He was "taking one for the team". . but why should taking one for the team only ever result in a yellow ?
Every week, games up and down the country are being ruined by players who's teams are hanging on to a slender lead committing these fouls. "Taking one for the team" has become acceptable. we even have a nice new term for it. we call it "Game management". . Game management ??? its blatant cheating. An attempt to stop the flow (and entertainment) of a game. A deliberate attempt to alter or secure a result using methods that have always been outside the rules.

By rescinding Sons red card those clowns have sent out two messages. They have reaffirmed the wide held belief that it is ok to cheat and they have shown players its ok to seek retribution.
When we stop taking consequences into consideration the game has died.

I cant get my head around these claims that it was an accident. . It was no fucking accident.
Son may not have set out to break Gomes's leg. But our boy is lying in hospital with his future in the balance as a direct consequence of his DELIBERATE, cynical, vengeful, reckless, foul play.

John G Davies
208 Posted 06/11/2019 at 06:17:45
Seamus Coleman, and a few other Everton players, went into the Spurs dressing room to exonerate Son.
That tells you all you need to know about the tackle.

They wouldn't have gone anywhere near Son if they considered the tackle to be bad. Especially Seamus who has been on the wrong end of a leg breaking tackle.
David Thomas
209 Posted 06/11/2019 at 07:02:35
Darren 207 Agree with every word of that post
Tony Hill
210 Posted 06/11/2019 at 07:31:20
If you tackle recklessly, as Son did, then you immediately put the opponent at hazard and the type of injury sustained by Gomes is within the foreseeable range of possibilities.
Andrew Keatley
211 Posted 06/11/2019 at 10:57:44
It really seems that there is a fundamental disconnect for some people between the existing rules of the game and what they wish the rules of the game actually were.

Son’s challenge deserved a yellow card, according to the rules of the game. I don’t like professional/intentional fouls - and I also think that players who deliberately target a specific opponent with an intentional foul are leaving themselves open to further criticism - but the extent of the Gomes injury has made people want Son to be punished out of line with the challenge he made. As other people have observed, if Gomes had managed to avoid injury then nobody is calling for a red. The fact that the red card has been rescinded gives me greater faith in the rules of the game - which must remain untouched by emotion - and the people making those decisions.

Anthony Dove
213 Posted 06/11/2019 at 12:07:31
Yellow without any argument. As for Gomes, he is not the quickest anyway, so I worry about the long term effects.
Jack Convery
214 Posted 06/11/2019 at 12:27:18
Off topic I know but unsure were else to post it. I emailed the EPL after Saturdays game about the two penalty decisions not given for EFC - the handball and the lunge on Richarlson - I got this reply today.

Thanks for your email

Match officials sometimes make mistakes which can impact the outcome of a match. While VAR will not achieve 100 per cent accuracy, it has been introduced to help lead to more correct, and fairer, judgements.

To help maintain the pace and intensity of matches there is a high-bar for VARs to intervene in subjective decisions. No two incidents are the same, and so each is subject to its own unique interpretations by both the on-field match officials and the VAR. The high-bar philosophy is designed to ensure VARs will intervene only if, in their judgement, a clear and obvious error has been made. In all cases, the final decision will always be taken by the on-field referee.

Factual decisions such as offsides are not subject to the clear and obvious test. If the VAR sees an error has been made in such a situation they will intervene, regardless of how marginal the decision is.

You can read a great deal more on use of VAR in the Premier League at the link below:

https://www.premierleague.com/VAR

Thanks for taking the time to contact us, and I hope this helps to explain our position.

Kind regards

Tommy

First of all who the f is Tommy and secondly that explanation is about as clear as the River Mersey on a full tide in a force 7 gale.

Just pathetic.

Jack Convery
215 Posted 06/11/2019 at 12:31:10
I forgot to say I asked for a full explanation for the decisions made. As you can see I didn't get an explanation for either decision. The one investigated and the one ignored.
Jack Convery
216 Posted 06/11/2019 at 12:33:04
Lyndon if you could give the EPL reply to my email a more prominent place so others can see it I would appreciate it.
Stephen Davies
217 Posted 06/11/2019 at 12:34:52
So did Son receive any punishment at all for the tackle? eg... He was initially given a Yellow by the Ref but this was changed to a Red when he saw the severity of the injury.
Now that the Red has been rescinded has the slate been wiped clean in respect of that tackle i.e. No card at all?
Dave Ganley
218 Posted 06/11/2019 at 15:36:58
Totally agree Darren #207, it was a cheap shot pure and simple and he gets away with it.

I just wish our club would finally show some mettle and say how it really is instead of all this crap about consoling Son, unfortunate blah blah. Same with VAR, just come out and say it was blatantly cheating instead of a load of bollocks that referees have a hard job etc. We are such a soft touch. Klopp had no reservations about their VAR issues on saturday.

I wish Andre all the best and a speedy recovery, in my opinion he will be a big loss

Rob Halligan
219 Posted 06/11/2019 at 16:08:54
Jack, the one thing I don't understand about their reply, is the last sentence in paragraph three .

"In all cases, the final decision will always be taken by the on-field referee".

To me, this implies that, following any review, the on field referee should decide if a penalty is a penalty or not? In other words, following advice from the VAR official, shouldn't he view the pitch side monitor, and make the "final decision"? This is clearly not the case, particularly were Everton stand, as the decision to award a penalty to Brighton, and the two penalties turned down on Sunday were both made by the VAR official.

Or am I reading this wrong?

Sam Hoare
220 Posted 06/11/2019 at 16:19:53
Off topic but anyone watching the Arsenal Europa league match I quite fancy the Vitoria CB Tapsoba to be a possible CB target for us. Quick, strong, tall, assured. Only 20 but looks like he could be the next Koulibaly, Van Dijk to me.
Stan Schofield
221 Posted 06/11/2019 at 16:24:01
Andrew@211: You say that Son's challenge deserved a yellow, according to the rules of the game, but many on ToffeeWeb do not agree based on the rules of the game. In other words, whether it deserved a yellow or a red is at issue.

There are quite a few posts on this, which consider the actual wording of the rules (rather than any hypothetical rules that some might wish for) including the element of endangering a player without necessarily producing an injurious outcome.

Steve Ferns
222 Posted 06/11/2019 at 16:30:41
Gomes was at Finch Farm today. Surprising how quick he was up and back "at work". Also shows his affection for the club, as he could easily have stayed away for weeks until he was ready to begin rehabilitation.

Meanwhile, Fabian Delph missed training with injury. Looks like Morgan Schniederlin will get back in the team by default. Someone check to make sure he ain't got voodoo dolls of our players in his locker!

Steve Ferns
223 Posted 06/11/2019 at 16:42:23
I’m not so sure that picture is of finch farm actually. Think this might be wrongly reported.
Andrew Keatley
224 Posted 06/11/2019 at 16:47:35
Stan (211) - I absolutely agree that there is an element of interpretation concerning the rules, hence these threads.

I think that there are people on here who want to find a way to bend the wording to suit their interpretation of the Son foul, particularly "endangering the safety of an opponent" or "using excessive force". I would say that Son committed a foul that - in and off itself - was not guilty of either of those charges.

We do not want to get into a world in which any trip, any forceful tackle, any last-ditch straining challenge, is to be classified as an automatic red card just because there are people who may choose to argue that the force was excessive (subjective) or the safety of the opponent was in jeopardy (again, subjective). We need to find a way to see the bigger picture and clearly distinguish between fouls that are dangerous, excessive, or brutal, and the ones that are snide (however badly the outcome for the fouled player.)

Andrew Keatley
225 Posted 06/11/2019 at 16:50:51
Steve (223) - I'd imagine Andre will be back at Finch Farm at the earliest opportunity. He'll probably want to see his team-mates, thank them, thank the club staff, and let everyone see that he's up for the challenge of getting back. At least I hope so.
Rob Halligan
226 Posted 06/11/2019 at 17:00:09
Steve, The red echo report that Gomes is back at finch farm today. I've also seen a photo, (don't know if it's the same one you've seen) of what looks like Gomes on crutches, walking along with someone (Yerry Mina?) carrying a blue cooler box, but it is definitely finch farm.
Stan Schofield
227 Posted 06/11/2019 at 17:03:28
Andrew224: Couldn't agree more on the need for a sensible interpretation of the rules. I posted @221 because the posts I mention seem, in the main, quite unemotional and interesting (particularly so for you given the point you're making @224).
Steve Ferns
228 Posted 06/11/2019 at 17:30:12
Cheers Rob. I saw a close up of the cast on Twitter and a caption that he was back at finch farm. Couldn’t see any efc logos so could have been anywhere. Glad you’ve seen a better picture and it is him and he is there.

I hope his appearance will be a boost to all the players and we can go into the game looking to do it for André Gomes.

Allan Board
229 Posted 06/11/2019 at 17:30:16
So it was only a trip from behind! These are the worst kind!! The huge difference is you are completely not expecting to be tripped up as the player is too far behind you so is out of the contact area to attempt an honest challenge. If you see the challenge coming you can ride it to a certain degree or get out the way. Think Zidane in his pomp.
So if this is OK, how come we remove kids from sessions who deliberately trip players up? It is not only a cowardly thing to do, It results in freakish injuries as the recipient is not even prepared for it! Go trip someone up in the street from behind and see what results.
A shit house thing to do indeed. Probably did it in junior football and never disciplined for it.
Come on fellas, is all things Everton that bad that we just let
thing's like this slide out of apathy?
Id have chinned him.
Paul A Smith
230 Posted 06/11/2019 at 17:32:40
Lets hope the lad is one of the few that get back to their old self once a terrible injury has been rehabilitated.
Jason Wilkinson
231 Posted 06/11/2019 at 17:38:33
To all the apologists. Let's have a group hug and forgive Souness, Case, Kuyt and all the other lovely "I didn't mean to hurt" him darlings.
Football is not the same game as it was in the '80's.
There is the risk of injury in any sport and football is no exception. The difference nowadays is you are more likely to be out with a muscle tear than a break.
I wish Andre Gomes a full and speedy recovery. However he is a professional footballer like the rest of our squad and has stunk the place out with some shoddy performances recently.
We need lions in our team not kittens!!! Maybe this incident will be the kick up the arse our squad needed to perform at a more intense and meaningful level.
Maybe it forces Silva into a formation that plays better football. He has stuck by Gomes even when it has been obvious he needed hooking.
All the best Andre. It is not nice to have broken bones (had a few myself) Get back soon and come back stronger.
John Pierce
232 Posted 06/11/2019 at 17:44:18
Someone reminded me of Peter Reid leathering Marwood after he ‘did’ Heath.

Would be nice to see a 22 man brawl. Been a long time think any of our lot have a decent hook on them? Any of them head- butters? Yerald!!!
Watched Maradona kicking and scratching in the Spanish cup final from waaay back, Pickford might that guy!
Who’s the sly one in the team who sucker punches?
Would Michael Keane even throw a punch?!
Who’s the guy who separates every one out?
Who the sub or coaching staff who comes from nowhere to land a haymaker?
I’d think I feel better if it had all kicked off on Sunday.

Paul A Smith
233 Posted 06/11/2019 at 17:44:24
Allan I think you might have just nailed that situation mate.

I have to be honest and say I find it hard to hate Son and I struggled to want him labelled for the foul because I did like the lad, I appreciate his game and his qualities and as far as seeing a footballer from the outside he does seem a nice character.

Having said all that I read your post and its hard to say your not exactly right.

That one instance is exactly as you put it and tripping people at that speed is wreckless. My brother tripped someone unawares when we were kids and they broke their wrist.

It was petulant and little irresponsibilities like that can lead to anything happening.


John, i love them passionate 22 men brawls (as they put it) when i am at the game, but you return home and find it was pure handbags and 22 boy band hardcases pushing each other.

I couldn't have held myself back as a team mate once i knew the damage though and we would have been down to 10 men too.

Jack Convery
234 Posted 06/11/2019 at 17:49:48
I remember Gareth BArry standing up to someone - was it Diego Costa - I can't remember,
Jack Convery
235 Posted 06/11/2019 at 17:54:27
Ron the whole reply was B S. You are quite right VAR are making the decisions because the refs all agreed going to the monitor would slow things down even more. Also I reckon they are sh*t scared of going over to where the managers and fans are and looking at monitor with them being so close and no doubt applying a lot of pressure, especially the home teams fans who would be just yards away - apart from WHUs lot who are miles away !
Paul A Smith
236 Posted 06/11/2019 at 17:59:09
Jack, do you remember Mirallas squaring up to Huth about 3 or 4 seasons back?

I absolutely loved that. Mirallas was a big let down because if he could have done for 60 minutes what he done for 30 minutes on form he would have been a better player.

He had no fear of anyone and had no respect for anyone as a footballer. (That wasn't Belgian).

The Squirting of water in Wilshere's face still makes me chuckle to this day. And when he got Suarez back.

Jason Wilkinson
237 Posted 06/11/2019 at 18:27:26
Best I ever saw was our Andy King decking Emlyn Hughes at GP versus Wolves. I think the lovable Emlyn had brought him down as he charged towards the penalty area. No remorse from our Andy. Straight red. Biggest cheer of the match. Just a shame he didn't knock that horrible squeaky voice out of him.
Steve Ferns
238 Posted 06/11/2019 at 18:53:13
Gomes just posted a thank you video on social media.
Brian Williams
239 Posted 06/11/2019 at 18:55:06
Got a link please Steve?
Steve Ferns
240 Posted 06/11/2019 at 18:58:39
Here you go Link
Brian Williams
241 Posted 06/11/2019 at 19:00:44
Thankyou.
Mike Gaynes
242 Posted 06/11/2019 at 19:16:11
Thanks for sharing, Steve. Very subdued young man.
Brian Williams
243 Posted 06/11/2019 at 19:21:40
Mike, he wasn't subdued he's just not American. 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Steve Ferns
244 Posted 06/11/2019 at 19:31:06
Silva on Gomes and Richarlison: Link
Paul Tran
246 Posted 06/11/2019 at 19:46:58
I remember Brian Kidd decking a Wigan player in the cup and walking off without even looking at the referee. And a young Kevin Ratcliffe nutting Hutchinson during that horrible cup tie against City.
Steve Ferns
248 Posted 07/11/2019 at 14:09:10
Silva says Gomes could play again this season: Sky Sports News
James Hughes
249 Posted 07/11/2019 at 14:17:04
I think Silva is away with the faeries if he thinks Gomes will play competitievley again this season.
Sam Hoare
250 Posted 07/11/2019 at 14:18:34
I saw that Steve. Though I'd be surprised.

One faint silver lining about Gomes's injury will be the game time it affords Tom Davies. I expect to feature in the majority of matches between now and January when either Gbamin will return or we will have to get a new midfielder.

He's not kicked on in the last year or so but this is a real opportunity for him; his energy and desire to move the ball forwards could see him make one of those midfield spot his own.

Brian Harrison
251 Posted 07/11/2019 at 14:25:09
James 249,

Stan Collymore tweeted the other day that he had exactly the same injury as Gomes and he was back playing in 6 weeks. So maybe Silva isn't away with the fairies, and even if Silva's prediction is asking a lot, surely it's better for him to paint a positive outlook to Gomes rather than saying he won't play again this season.

James Hughes
252 Posted 07/11/2019 at 14:38:19
Brian. I prefer your outlook and it will be great if it comes true.

Regardless, I still think Silva is away with Faeries, mainly due to the football I have watched whilst he has been in charge. Silva can keep his positive outlook for the job centre.

So only a few months to go and we can have our purple patch again and dream of better things (again!).

Rob Halligan
253 Posted 07/11/2019 at 15:58:54
Would be great if Gomes could play again this season, but, and it's big BUT, it would probably only be the last few weeks of the season. Best leave him to get fully fit without endangering himself, and get in a good pre season.

By the way Andre, should you feel the need to play before the season ends, then Saturday 11th April would be a good game to make a comeback in!!

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