Everton 2 - 2 Newcastle United
The evening should have been all about Moise Kean's first Everton goal but his moment was ruined by a pathetic stoppage-time collapse
Everton collapsed in horrendous fashion in second-half stoppage time and gave up a comfortable
The Blues were coasting to victory as the match entered time added on thanks to a goal in each half, the opener coming from Moise Kean's first goal in English football, and the second should have been the killer strike coming from Dominic Calvert-Lewin.
They needlessly gave away possession at the back, however, and allowed the Magpies back in when Lejeune over-head kicked a goal back with 93 minutes on the clock and the Frenchman was there again as the home side buckled at the death to grab a seemingly impossible point for Steve Bruce.
Carlo Ancelotti made two changes to the side that started on Saturday, bringing Morgan Schneiderlin and Djibril Sidibé in for Tom Davies and Seamus Coleman while Michael Keane was deemed fit enough for a place on the bench which also featured Anthony Gordon.
A lively but scrappy opening yielded openings in attack for both sides but Bernard and Lucas Digne could only find striped jerseys with some early crossing opportunities from the left flank at one end while Mason Holgate and then Djibril Sidibé had to step to keep the Magpies at bay at the other.
Sidibe forced the first save of the game with a crisp first-time drive from 20 yards out in the 16th minute and Martin Dubravka was forced into a second stop just a minute later when Kean elected to shoot from just outside the box as Everton broke again, the keeper shovelling his low effort wide of goal.
The home side's pressure told with half-an-hour gone, though. Calvert-Lewin got a crucial touch to Mina's raking ball forward that was collected by Bernard and the Brazilian dinked it perfectly over the top for Kean who controlled and then fired under the keeper to score his long-awaited first goal in Everton colours.
A counter shortly afterwards saw Bernard find Calvert-Lewin but the striker scuffed his left-footed attempt well off target and the Brazilian had a shot of his a couple of minutes later that was deflected into Dubravka's arms.
The match entered another sloppy spell in the closing stages of the half and Sean Longstaff sliced one effort off target and Joelinton went as close as Newcastle had managed to that point with a powerful header that dropped over the bar. The lively Almiron then ran at the defence and threatened to slip Joelinton in but Sidibé was there again to block him off.
Everton probably should have been 2-0 up in the first minute after half-time. Kean scampered away and played Bernard in on the overlap and though his cross was deflected out to the edge of the box, Walcott mis-kicked on the edge of the box, no one in the Newcastle defence claimed the looping high ball and Kean hesitated as the ball bounced in front of him and failed to make contact in front of goal.
Five minutes in, another great chance arrived as Kean's backheel found Walcott who slid the ball in for Bernard but his attempt to clip it over the advancing goalkeeper unfortunately cleared the crossbar.
Just three minutes after that it was 2-0 and deservedly so. A well-worked passing move outside the opposition area ended with Digne passing neatly past the last defender to Calvert-Lewin who had time and space to pick his spot, firing past the keeper.
Newcastle needed to respond and increased their share of possession but most of their openings came from Everton giving the ball away in midfield and the next chance fell to the home side. Calvert-Lewin crossed for Kean but, under pressure, the Italian couldn't get enough power on his header to trouble the goalkeeper who made a routine save.
Ancelotti's first change came with 20 minutes gone when Kean was withdrawn after an industrious evening and Coleman was introduced.
Dubravka had to be sharp shortly afterwards to dive to his right and turn Bernard's shot around the post and following the resulting corner, good work by Walcott ended with him standing the ball up invitingly for Mina but the Colombian somehow headed wide.
A minute after that, Sidibe rolled it square to Calvert-Lewin outside the area and he swept a side-footed shot that came off the post, off the keeper and behind. The next corner ended with the ball being fizzed into the near post where Joelinton almost turned it into his own net.
That dead-ball situation eventually saw Holgate try his luck off Schneiderlin's chest-off but the defender fired straight at the goalkeeper.
Fabian Schär came on for Newcastle and had a crack that looked to be a dangerous one for Pickford to deal with but his shot deflected behind off his own player with 11 minutes to go.
Davies came on for Bernard a couple of minutes later and was followed on by Oumar Niasse who replaced Walcott.
Meanwhile, the onus remained on the visitors to try and force an opening and they had a half-chance from a goalkeeper where Pickford had to save Mina's close-range back-header while Davies was hauled down at the other end presenting Digne with a free-kick chance just outside the area.
The Frenchman couldn't keep his shot down, though and it was his complacency and that of Davies that led to Newcastle getting one back in stoppage time. Playing it around at the back they conceded a needless throw-in and Holgate was forced to concede a corner that Pickford couldn't clear. Substitute Lejeune was there to over-head-kick it home.
Davies conceded a free-kick from the restart, the Magpies lumped it forward, the ball was pinged off the post and out to Lejeuene who rapped it goalwards where Pickford stopped it but behind the line.
scorers: Kean (30'), Calvert-Lewin (54'); Lejeune (90+4', 90+5')
Everton: Pickford, Sidibé, Mina, Holgate, Digne, Schneiderlin, Delph, Bernard (83' Davies), Walcott (88' Niasse), Kean (71' Coleman), Calvert-Lewin [Y:68'].
Subs not Used: Lössl, Baines, Keane, Gordon.
Newcastle Utd: Dubravka, Hayden, Fernandez, Lascelles, Clark [Y:62'] (70' Lejeune), Ritchie, Almiron, Sean Longstaff, Matthew Longstaff, Atsu (62' Krafth), Joelinton (78' Schar).
Subs not Used: Shelvey, Darlow, Allan, Gibson.
Referee: Simon Hooper
VAR: Anthony Taylor
Reader Comments (456)
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1 Posted 21/01/2020 at 18:40:27
2 Posted 21/01/2020 at 18:43:17
3 Posted 21/01/2020 at 18:45:42
4 Posted 21/01/2020 at 18:45:47
As for our friend Morgan. Erm.
Full support blues. I fancy Moise to break his duck tonight. Don't ask me why.
Onward Evertonians ðŸ™
5 Posted 21/01/2020 at 18:48:40
I have always thought the Kings Dock failure hit Everton more than anything else.
6 Posted 21/01/2020 at 18:50:34
7 Posted 21/01/2020 at 19:02:22
8 Posted 21/01/2020 at 19:04:52
Our midfielders are much of a muchness in terms of quality, however his half-arsed sauntering around the pitch is treasonous.
9 Posted 21/01/2020 at 19:08:15
10 Posted 21/01/2020 at 19:16:08
Carlo alternates Coleman and Sidibe a lot for a starting position. Tom Davies has been playing with a knock for some weeks and is probably being managed on that basis.
Given the absentees of Siggy and Richie hopefully just short-term and Gomes and Gbamin long-term, there really aren't a lot of alternatives to call on for a starting position.
Hopefully that starting XI, plus whoever comes on from the bench, still have enough to claim three vital points tonight.
11 Posted 21/01/2020 at 19:16:11
As Evertonians the best we can do is to be supportive, cheer the team on and, please be a little more patient. AGREED, that is not an easy challenge but what else can we do?
12 Posted 21/01/2020 at 19:32:49
13 Posted 21/01/2020 at 19:35:05
14 Posted 21/01/2020 at 19:37:06
15 Posted 21/01/2020 at 19:56:58
16 Posted 21/01/2020 at 20:02:31
17 Posted 21/01/2020 at 20:04:28
18 Posted 21/01/2020 at 20:13:20
Kean off the mark
Well predicted Jay @4
Just needs to go get his hat trick now
19 Posted 21/01/2020 at 20:19:43
20 Posted 21/01/2020 at 20:27:37
Happy to have Newcastle come on to us, even if it does give us a couple of nervy moments.
In the main, we have been the better and more threatening team and the lead is well deserved.
Absolutely delighted for Kean. And a good goal it was too, from front to back. A good pick out by Mina to Dom. Excellent flick on to Bernard. Good anticipation and movement by Kean to Bernard's lovely dinked pass. Good finish by the young Italian. Nice control, even though the ball fell behind him. Good adjustment to get his shot away and then sufficient power to score.
I like the way we are drilling crisp passes from midfield to our middle forwards and the movement off them.
I can see more goals for us in the second half.
21 Posted 21/01/2020 at 20:29:32
22 Posted 21/01/2020 at 20:37:17
23 Posted 21/01/2020 at 21:05:01
24 Posted 21/01/2020 at 21:12:09
25 Posted 21/01/2020 at 21:35:33
26 Posted 21/01/2020 at 21:36:10
Fate Personified: “Hold my beer.â€
27 Posted 21/01/2020 at 21:36:35
28 Posted 21/01/2020 at 21:36:39
29 Posted 21/01/2020 at 21:38:00
30 Posted 21/01/2020 at 21:40:46
I'm too shocked to be angry. That'll come later. I think the subs were wrong and led to us losing control. We were coasting and Coleman didn't effect things too much but Niasse did. He didn't chase down Delph was trying to do so for him and behind him. Why didn't Gordon come on instead?
I like Tom Davies but he was so poor, it was another unnecessary sub. We don't have a game for ages. Let them run 10 more.
Ancelotti this was on you.
31 Posted 21/01/2020 at 21:41:12
Another baffling substitution from Carlo.. utterly pointless bringing on a forward at 88 minutes when two nil up.. let alone Niasse who then proceeds to concede possession every time he touches the ball..
Carlo must take the blame here. Poor game management.
32 Posted 21/01/2020 at 21:41:14
33 Posted 21/01/2020 at 21:41:56
34 Posted 21/01/2020 at 21:42:30
35 Posted 21/01/2020 at 21:43:09
36 Posted 21/01/2020 at 21:43:19
37 Posted 21/01/2020 at 21:44:17
38 Posted 21/01/2020 at 21:44:28
39 Posted 21/01/2020 at 21:44:53
I don't want to hear any of this "patience " lark, this is on Ancelotti.
DF fucked this Zonal marking off. Ancelotti re-introduces it.
Thats three goals we have conceded through dead ball situations. . whats it gonna take ?
40 Posted 21/01/2020 at 21:45:07
41 Posted 21/01/2020 at 21:46:15
Everton make you sick.
42 Posted 21/01/2020 at 21:46:53
One thing I can say. Can we please never, ever bring Niasse on the pitch again. Just have him play in the reserves and pick up his wages 'till be buggers off in June. It's a slap in the face for hard working decent people to see this guy running around like a donkey yet getting paid £55k/week.
Will try to erase those two minutes from memory to stay sane.
Very happy for Kean and DCL now into double figures for league goals. I'll eat humble pie there. The kids certainly stepped up.
43 Posted 21/01/2020 at 21:47:44
44 Posted 21/01/2020 at 21:47:54
Season is over anyway. Just 10 points to go. All just a bit of a laugh now.
45 Posted 21/01/2020 at 21:48:26
46 Posted 21/01/2020 at 21:48:44
Really happy for Kean scoring, but he looked shell shocked at the final whistle.
Typical fucking Everton once again.
47 Posted 21/01/2020 at 21:49:56
48 Posted 21/01/2020 at 21:50:29
we played well and were in total control but that result is on Carlo I'm afraid for his subs.
49 Posted 21/01/2020 at 21:50:49
50 Posted 21/01/2020 at 21:51:12
The other effect is even we do win and I'm watching, say MOTD, and I know we have won there is still a part of me that expects us to lose.
My first thought on bearing it was 2-1 was that it will end up as 2-2.
51 Posted 21/01/2020 at 21:51:40
Would love to hear from those ToffeeWebbers who know best and criticise loyal fans for daring to say Ancelotti was fortunate with his subs against Brighton.
Ancelotti must take his share of blame tonight. Davies and even more so Niasse just gave ball away. Why take Kean off with around 25 minutes still left?
I don't lay the blame on 2 points lost solely on Ancelotti, Pickford (another who many say he's fine despite v bad statistical evidence otherwise) was just if not more culpable. Flapping at cross as always and then being behind his line for second goal?
That all said the major fault is weak mentality from entire team. Shitting themselves from kick off, no guts from Delph (who was brought in as a leader and has “ballsâ€ to criticise a fan on social media) or others in midfield / just lump ball up to nowhere then criminal defending off a free kick from the middle of the pitch.
52 Posted 21/01/2020 at 21:52:38
53 Posted 21/01/2020 at 21:52:40
Yes, there were lots of people to blame for this one, but Davies is #1 and nobody else is close. Concede the corner, fail to mark, commit an utterly brainless foul in the middle of the pitch, and then completely miss a header that an 8-year-old could have performed because he was too busy pointing at people.
Nice blonde local kid with an IQ of 65. Enough.
54 Posted 21/01/2020 at 21:53:15
55 Posted 21/01/2020 at 21:53:37
This is Everton
56 Posted 21/01/2020 at 21:54:34
This is what they do to us!!
My son, 5 went to bed thinking we won 2-0 and he was chuffed! I can't tell him !!
57 Posted 21/01/2020 at 21:55:02
He has history doing this. Remember Istanbul? He took of Crespo when they were cruising and collapsed like tonight. Wake up Carlo ffs!!!
58 Posted 21/01/2020 at 21:55:46
If Carlo needed any reminders of who needs ditching it was there for all to see, and that was with bringing on an extra defender.
I do not like Schneiderlin, but he wasn't bad for most of the game, credit where it's due, and I never thought I would ever say that.
59 Posted 21/01/2020 at 21:56:18
Tonight Carlo got the tempo right early, got the all important first goal, we then had an easy night and they looked a poor team.
Then Carlo after getting lucky last week starts making subs for subs sake despite absolutely no need. Adopts fucking Italians tactics from the 1990s and so they have 4 centre backs attacking our defence. Honestly he couldn't have played into their hands anymore had he tried. I actually feel for the players tonight.
60 Posted 21/01/2020 at 21:56:30
Have to disagree with part of your statement "Any other player costing us games with idiotic mistakes this often would be gone already, " I'd say you're spot on if you substituted the word "would" for "should" as we've had a long history of tolerating calamity Jane types well past the point of no return. Even as a kid I remember Neil McDonald given game after game despite an amazing knack to do stupid things.
61 Posted 21/01/2020 at 21:56:49
62 Posted 21/01/2020 at 21:56:59
63 Posted 21/01/2020 at 21:57:28
How Everton is that?
We've totally dominated the game. A 4 or 5-0 scoreline would not flatter us. They have had one shot on goal all night. It's 93 minutes with just a minute of injury time to play.
And we contrive to gift them not one, but two goals.
Yes, they had the best of things in the final 10 minutes, but nothing threatening.
The turning point was Davies and Digne trying to be too cute playing it out tight in our left hand corner. Both had chances to simply whack it down the line for the team to regroup and keep them at arm's length.
Instead, their overplaying it resulted in a corner from which they score.
The second is the defence retreating too deep and allowing Newcastle to put it in the mixed and keep the ball alive.
Neither goal has nothing - absolutely nothing - to do with zonal marking or poor tactics by the manager, but rather poor in-game management and decision making by the players on the pitch.
Unfortunately, their two goals coming so late will dominate the post-match discussion when over the full course of the game there was a lot to enjoy and feel positive about.
64 Posted 21/01/2020 at 21:58:07
65 Posted 21/01/2020 at 21:58:38
66 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:00:52
67 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:01:26
68 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:01:36
69 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:01:59
70 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:02:44
I'm not holding Ancelotti 80-90% responsible. He is totally responsible. He fucked up big time. Not only with his substitutions but by re-introducing and persevering with a tactic which has been the death of us for two years.
71 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:03:17
72 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:03:56
Terrible game management by Ancelotti with fragile players.
73 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:04:07
74 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:04:07
Just when you think we may have turned a corner they literally revert to type and rip your fucking heart out.
It must be so nice supporting a decent team! I've never known us to be one and we are miles away right now!
Every single one of them overpaid wankers on that pitch should be completely ashamed of themselves!
75 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:04:49
76 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:05:32
77 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:05:38
78 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:06:07
79 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:06:11
80 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:06:37
81 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:06:39
1] Liverpool's kids - enough said
2] Newcastle - for 93 mins they were the feeblest opposition we have faced this season. But our lot conspire to collapse in the last 2 minutes. Another minute or 2 and we'd probably have conceded a 3rd.
Settle in and expect more of the same in the games to come.
Good luck Carlo.
Roll on summer and a break from this.
82 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:06:39
83 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:07:03
JP loves conceding these late derby goals! (This being his real derby of course)
Just be thankful it wasn't 5 mins time added on.
84 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:08:03
85 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:08:26
"Neither goal has nothing - absolutely nothing - to do with zonal marking or poor tactics by the manager".
You exclude the clause in which I justified why I made that claim.
I look forward to you justifying why it's 'utter nonsense' to say so.
86 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:08:35
87 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:10:00
Spot on. You have to wonder what these people are actually looking at when you read their comments.
Lets blame the youngster instead
88 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:10:16
Because, Darren #70, when a player gives away a foolish corner for one goal and then commits a totally ridiculous foul in the center circle to give the opponent a last chance for another -- and then completely misses an easy clearing header because he's too busy talking -- that player is a fucking moron.
Not absolving Ancelotti at all here -- the last two subs were foolish -- but the last time a player committed this much idiocy in injury time to cost us a game was... gee, let's see now... Tom fucking Davies.
Enough is enough with this dumb kid. 21 and local just isn't an excuse anymore.
89 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:10:57
He doesn't learn from his mistakes.
90 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:11:04
"Why the fuck is Tom Davies taking the blame again ?" probably because he gave away two needless set pieces that cost us the game. Also because since his goal against city about four years ago he hasn't shown himself adept at tackling, dribbling, passing, shooting or anything else really. I don't like abuse being handed out but I am of the opinion at this point that he's just not very good.
As for managers, since about 1988 more often than not I've been hearing how the manager should get the sack. So many have come and gone while the same players make millions and happily keep picking up their paychecks.
91 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:11:15
Don't make me laugh! Everton don't have winnable games. We're a charity. Throwing away another 2 points against a team we should have put 6 goals past - at home!
We are shite - with or without you CA. End of story.
92 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:11:20
bring him on, we were coasting, as Chris @48 said, why didnt he send on Keane. Pickford totally flapped at the ball for the first goal, livid.
93 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:12:58
94 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:13:39
95 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:13:45
You could argue that he was arrogant to assume that they could do a job but Coleman, Davies and Niasse are yesterday's players.
Should never play for Everton again.
96 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:15:08
Marco Silva would have been absolutely hammered for those substitutions tonight that evidently were so unbelievably defensive it was unreal.
Ancelotti HAS to take a lot of the blame for that tonight.
I can't believe what I've just witnessed to be honest, I fuckin hate this club I really do.
That's our answer to the Redshite winning virtually every tournament there is.!
We never fail to disappoint so we?
97 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:16:06
Stupid, weak, no game management or understanding how to see the game out. Sadly we have done this so many times over the last few seasons it's unbelievable.
Plus point being it means nothing. We aren't knocked out from a cup, we aren't relegated, we havnt just thrown away European football for next season. It's just more disappointment in a poor season.
Really happy for Kean and DCL.
Ancelotti is learning about players but needs to take some responsibility for his subs. Surely he knows Niasse and Schnides don't have a future with us.
Get another 10 points ASAP then play the kids. Roll on next game to learn, improve and implement the game plan over 99 plus mins.
98 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:16:36
99 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:17:12
I can only assume we're still trying to tempt someone to buy or loan Niasse, and so Ancelotti has been asked to put him in the shop window. I don't believe for a second that he actually rates him, and he had the option of allowing Gordon to run them ragged for a few mins. I suppose he assumed the game was won. What harm could it do...?
Ancelotti, you really fucked up with those subs.
On the plus side, there were some very good performances tonight and the majority of the players did not deserve that result. They were let down.
100 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:18:07
101 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:18:16
Tom Davies is a local lad, he's also thick as shit and a bit crap too.
If you want to see out a match send Tom Davies out of the stadium.
102 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:18:49
We offered a team whose only threat comes from high balls to camp in our box due to a planned tactical response from Carlo.
103 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:19:20
104 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:19:35
We're re-creating the same pissed logic we fall back on with every manager. He can fuck up till the cows come home, but the kids are still gonna get it
105 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:20:28
106 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:20:32
Something of a shame, as they also turned in some good football tonight.
107 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:22:02
I've got no problem with the 3 players subbed - none of them have 90 minutes in them (Kean will have but not yet).
The reason we lost is not zonal marking - we defended well for 93 minutes. It's not the players brought on. Pickford flapping at that corner put them back into the game. If he had dealt with that initial corner better, we'd be 2 points better off tonight.
We played well but Pickford has cost us again with that first goal. Whenever he is playing well, I am always still wondering when his next clanger will be. A top keeper deals with that corner and we win.
108 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:22:23
Makes our Late collapse Seem just that little bit worse.
I wonder if any other Carlo team has conceded twice in the last 2 minutes of time added on? Could be another first for his CV!
109 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:23:36
110 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:23:41
Pickford is a great shot-stopper, but on crosses, there's always a mistake in him. That's what cost us tonight.
111 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:24:15
112 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:24:51
It's been 15 years since Istanbul, Carlo. I thought you'd learnt your lesson.
113 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:25:04
114 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:25:06
You can imagine the surprise I had when I got back to the car.
Now in the railway trying to digest events. Still have not seen the goals so I'll refrain from commenting, but I'm afraid Mike Gaynes is making statements about Tom Davies that I can do nothing but agree with.
I'm not absolving the manager, but I think we all agree that there's a mental weakness in the team/squad that has developed over a number of years. I'm afraid no manager is going to solve that overnight.
115 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:26:10
But he's young and one of ours so we must overlook the fact that he's a walking disaster waiting to give the ball away and concede possession in dangerous areas of the pitch.
Mike once again is correct he plays with his inflated ego head up his own arse.
116 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:27:01
Chris #99, you may be right about the Niasse sub -- I had the same thought for a second.
Paul #110, you're right, Pickford could have done a LOT better on both. But those chances never should have happened, and I'm willing to cut him a little bit more slack because he has bailed out so many of our defensive mistakes this season with those big saves.
117 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:27:27
Sadly having been patient, I am coming round to Mike Gaines view on Tom Davies. Would struggle for a game in most other premier teams
118 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:29:40
Not sure on Gordon but I recall people demanding Barkley, Stones, Beningame, davies, Lookman etc play when they were overlooked. None of them proved their supporters right long term.
119 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:30:22
Shocking and bewildering, and as much as I rate and want Tom Davis to succeed, it's the same mistakes repeating in many games this season.
This isn't progress and it's not good enough, and whilst Tom is not solely to blame as bad defending and sluggish midfield has given the barcodes a lifeline, and they smelled blood.
Next x2 up and Watford will be ready to fight to the death and the concern is this squad won't and don't have the stomach for a fight.
Leaderless and clueless on the park, no game management, and another golden opportunity lost to claw back vital points.
Well a point is a point but in some ways perhaps we was luckily there wasn't 6 mins injury time.
Only Everton blow leads so regularly and fail to win when 1-0, down.
Perhaps some of the TW stato bearers, can add clarity to which team has blown 1-0, 2-0, leads the most the last couple of years.
And may be Carlo is curable for taking off our best player, Bernard, and yielding to Steve Bruce's Newcastle to get stuck in to Everton, in the last 10 minutes.
So much for x4 wins, and my only hope is 5gat this squad may step up in the tough away games in London, Arsenal and Chelsea, and at home against our northwest rivals United and the RS.
Hopefully there's a few rays of light still beaming bright for the future but a tough run in to the end of this season, until this team learns game management and cuts out reckless tackle# around our own box.
120 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:30:31
That's a lack of professionalism by the players on the field not bad management.
Newcastle were as bad as I've seen any visiting side. They were down to third-stringers.
Ancelotti rightly used the opportunity to try and get Niasse in the shop window and to give Davies a run in a more advanced midfield position. Sidibe was hopeless so it made sense to move him where he could do less damage.
At the point in the match those subs were made Newcastle had not had a kick.
The players on the field should have been able to manage the game out.
121 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:32:46
122 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:33:11
1) For 75 mins we looked like a really good team, and given the amount of time Carlo has actually had to coach them, and some of the shit choices he's got to work with, it's positive signs at least. The system works.
2) We now get some decent gaps between games so he can coach them more about how he wants them to play, get some more players back, and hopefully recharge the squad a bit.
The bench today was pretty shit full stop. There was no pace or skill to bring on to replace the ones that had tired. and if he'd left them on and we had STILL conceded 2 (unless you live in parallel universe you don't know that we wouldn't have) we'd all be shouting about that too.
With Richie back, we'll have Moise Kean to bring on for tired legs, and be able to keep some pace and threat. We desperately need competition for Walcott on the right, and some alternative cover for Bernard on the left.
Get 1-2 decent players in, and the walking wounded back. and Carlo will have much more quality from the bench, and less square pegs Davis at left wing? Nope.
123 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:33:23
Not only that, any other club watching with interest will soon backtrack if they see him play.
124 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:33:54
I do blame, and this pains me, Tom Davies. I like the kid, always have. But what he did this evening is just inexcusable.
He has to show more intelligence, or he does need shipping out. He can not continue giving away the ball in dangerous positions, or gifting the opposition with opportunities in our own third by committing fouls.
It's simple. If you do that, you're a detriment to the team.
He cost us a very valuable 2 points.
It's just heart-wrenching because we played very well for 90 minutes. We were moving the ball wonderfully, we were on the front foot, Kean got a goal, everything you could ask for. All of it undone, and the undoing is down to really one player in Tom Davies.
He's still young. But he has to start to show massive progress in his decision making ability, or I do believe we should sell him off and make some money on the boy. I don't want that, but the time for excusing mistakes is now up. He needs to respond, and respond with flawless decision making here on in.
125 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:33:58
126 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:34:28
127 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:36:04
128 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:36:30
129 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:36:35
I was screaming in the Park End like a 5 year old with a tantrum at the end of that, but when we step back there was an enormous amount of encouragement to be had. We played some really lovely stuff in patches, Calvert-Lewin and Holgate were great and Schneiderlin was excellent.
Infuriating but very encouraging actually.
130 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:36:37
I'm not saying you haven't got a point on Zonal marking Darren, but that wasn't the issue tonight, because Pickford, gave a very weak punch for the first goal, and Davies completely got under that diagonal ball, for the second.
We lost because we relaxed, and we are simply not good enough to relax, which was proven the way we panicked when the Geordies scored their first goal, with so little time left on the clock.
A point that feels like a loss, and like Jamie Crowley, I also felt it was the best game we had played until Carlo Ancellotti went all Italian, and took off our forwards.
If Niasse is getting rewarded by being given game time for turning down a move to the championship, I shudder, but some good performances have been ruined, by some bad calls off our manager, and if he wants us to kill time and become better at game management, then he's got to go and bring in players with that type of character that is so sadly lacking at our club.
131 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:36:46
132 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:36:53
I can't recall anyone around me having any problems with the subs
What pissed me off more than anything was watching that twat Pickford, yet again, flapping at a cross.
A decent connection and pushed out then it's game over.
133 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:37:34
We had 7 defensive players on the pitch in that last 60 seconds plus that hyperactive retard in goal yet we somehow contrive to throw away two goals in 40 seconds.
I've said it so many times, we have a group of seriously stupid, and I mean mentally stupid players at this club.
Our in-game management is virtually nonexistent for a Premier League club.
134 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:38:01
135 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:38:56
136 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:39:03
I know Carlo is being paid a kings ransom but Tonight I can't help but suspect a small part of him is thinking “why did I agree to this?â€
137 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:39:06
The managers tactics (whether considered poor or not) employ passing out of defence.. this, by your own admission got us into trouble.. ergo, you're contradicting yourself by excluding his tactics as being culpable.
I don't need to go much further than that. but what was also fairly obvious was the implications of bringing on Niasse and the consequences his actions had before each goal.
138 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:39:11
139 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:39:57
Exactly Tony. The subs were what they were. Carlo is going to see games out, I've said that now multiple times. We had enough quality, even with Niasse out there, to see that game out.
We lost our concentration. That's a mortal sin in any sport.
We choked. Unacceptable. At this level of football, concentration can't dip at any point over the course of the game.
They thought they had it in the bag. Hopefully the humility lesson will ensure it doesn't happen again.
140 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:40:10
To bring on utter useless, tactical shite in Davies and Niasse was unbelievable to run the clock down.
Let's not insult the majority of teams in the Championship. This month needs to see a clear out of the League 1 category players who have milked this club too long.
141 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:40:18
142 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:40:28
Serial bottle jobs the lot of them.
143 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:41:28
144 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:41:34
145 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:41:52
Then drop everyone of the useless fuckers and play the youngest team possible. If that doesn't sink in then they are truly a lost cause.
146 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:42:05
At least Ancelotti can see the size of the task and the absolute bunch of morons he has to manage
147 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:42:08
I could understand the Coleman one, and we didn't lose total control and kept getting chances. Kean had been operating on the touchline for some reason and Walcott was playing in a 10 position, for about 5 minutes before Kean went off. Coleman was added to sure up the back line. Don't like that, but we have an Italian manager and I could understand and accept it.
The next one, Tom Davies for Bernard, I could understand that Bernard might have been tiring but he seemed ok to me, and we don't have another game now until 1st February, so not empty the tank? I could understand the desire to add a body in the middle and go 532.
The Niasse sub made no sense. Initially I thought it was Calvert-Lewin coming off. He looked tired, he was getting in scraps and perhaps could be taken off. Instead it was Walcott. So why not take Walcott off and bring on Gordon to run about off the striker (his position, not Niasse's) and use his technique and composure to keep the ball and run down the clock?
Niasse really pissed me off, I watch Delph run around him to chase down defenders that Niasse was brought on to chase after. Niasse didn't bother chasing any defenders, he gave the ball away very cheaply, as did Davies who was too cold to get up to speed in the middle, I mean he had hardly got his top on by the time he was running onto the pitch, so was he ready? Was he focused? Did he know what he had to do? He looked lost and off the pace.
I see zonal marking is blamed, so I'll have to watch it back to see the goals, as I was too far away to understand exactly what happened, there was just oo many bodies in the box.
I still cannot believe that game. I'm still fuming. And yeah, the weak willed players cost us the game but those subs, we went from in control and coasting to hanging on to lucky the ref blew before they won it.
148 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:42:20
Twice now he has substituted Coleman for a forward, moving Sidibe up from RB to RM and then the midfielder up top (last time Rich, today Theo). Both times it made perfect sense, but both times it failed.
Sidibe, who on both occasions was having a fine game at RB (he was splendid for the first 60 minutes today), promptly went off the boil when he was moved up, and Seamus wasn't at his best off the bench.
If Carlo is as smart as I think, he won't do this again. If Darren is right, he will. Let's see.
149 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:42:29
He's not progressing, Holgate and DCL have kicked on - he's stagnated. Yes, Ancelotti has to take the blame for his curious substitutions - no manager is going to get a tune out of the fading Coleman and diabolical Niasse. Pity as the joined up football in the second half was the best I've seen all season.
150 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:42:57
151 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:43:46
152 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:44:03
He may have a load of games under his belt but that is because a steady stream of liberty taking managers have played him here there and everywhere. That doesnt mean he isn't still a kid... He's 21 FFS.
Ancelotti is old enough to have been in our class. The game was won until he tried to be clever, What sort of logic suggest taking off a player in raging bull form and replacing him with a goat like Niasse was a good idea ?
Those claiming the goals had nothing to do with zonal marking need to ask why the defence is riddled with uncertainty ? why has this suicidal dumbfuckery been re-introduced ? Why did so many fear the worst when that corner was awarded ?
People can bury their heads as much as they want, but no amount of apologising gets Ancelotti off the hook tonight
153 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:44:12
Coleman coming on made sense to me. Kean was knackered after putting in a hell of a shift. We were 2-0 up, having Coleman with Sidibe in front of him made us more solid defensively.
Tom Davies came on in the 83rd minute for a tiring Bernard. Bernard never lasts 90 minutes. Davies wasn't at his best but he is normally capable of getting on the ball and passing it, and getting some tackles in when we don't have it. He's certainly capable of this in a 10 minute cameo when we are 2-0 up.
Omar Niasse came on for Theo Walcott in the 88th minute. We were still 2-0 up and this was just a like for like sub, wasting some time to see the game out.
As far as 93 minutes, I'm sure we were all relatively happy at a good performance where we were deservedly ahead.
Don't let the last minute cloud your judgement. Pickford has fucked up on that corner and put us under pressure and we have buckled. That is it. We never looked like conceding prior to that. It is nothing to do with the manager being at fault for substitutions, Tom Davies being at fault for giving away a corner or a free kick on the halfway line.
If that corner is handled properly, none of us would be talking about the last minute or the manager's substitutions.
154 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:44:57
I think most of us will benefit and be glad for nearly two weeks without this calamity of a football club.
155 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:46:22
Pickford was barely called on to make a save all game.
Sidibe, while crisp and inventive in his passing in the opposition half, continues to display serious liabilities when playing full-back. He is often caught way out of position when possession is turned over. Too many times, cute short round-the-corner balls by him are easily picked off exposing us as the opposition runs away from him.
Mina and Holgate were both extremely solid. They both stepped forward with the ball at times, playing crisp and clever passes through midfield or even further forward as per Mina's involvement for our first goal.
Digne again a bit of a mixed bag, but better than Sidibe on the opposite flank, once again reviving his partnership with Bernard to good effect. For a number of games now he has got in behind the defence and pulled a number of decent balls back. Unfortunately, on each occasion, the forwards have run in on goal. An alert midfielder running from deep in anticipation of this could serve us well.
Bernard was clearly our creative spark having been such a damp squib v WHU. Not everything he tries comes off. He overcooks the ball at times, but he opens up lines of attack other players can't or won't attempt.
Delph and Schneiderlin were good in what they did tonight! They were switching position well, with one staying 'at home' whilst the other ventured forward depending on the game situation. They kept the ball moving with a nice range of passing and switching of direction.
Walcott also had a good game. Possibly his best of the season. Full of energy and running and no little skill.
Kean most definitely had his best game in an Everton shirt. An excellent goal. Good strength and running with the ball. Some nice interplay with DCL. Lots more to come from the boy.
Dom, another outstanding game. He leads the line so well. Another good finish and, as he and Holgate always do, he never backs down. Really funny moment when following the coming together with Lascelles who tried to get in his face, Dom took the piss pretending the defender had a bad case of halitosis.
The passing from front to back was much slicker, inventive and varied, with many a fine ball played through the heart of midfield to attack, not solely down the flanks as has been the case for most of the season.
As for the subs, Kean has been subbed in or out in every game he has played for Everton. Walcott assumed his role alongside Dom and both continued to create havoc in the Newcastle defence.
That was on 71 minutes. Bernard - another player who never plays the full 90 minutes - was subbed out on 83 minutes for Davies. Yes, Newcastle were getting more into our half, but not in or around our penalty area. Things were still comfortable.
Niasse only came on for Walcott on 88 minutes - yet another player who commonly never plays the full 90 minuts - with Everton still comfortably in control of the game and result.
Did it smack of one of those sub a player out to allow him the applause his performance merited, or maybe a Goodison farewell appearance for Niasse? Who knows.
But to believe either of those latter two subs dramatically changed the dynamic of the game as some are claiming is overstating it, IMO.
As I wrote earlier, but for Davies and Digne playing silly buggers deep and tight in our own corner rather than launching it down the line, the corner their first goal comes from doesn't happen and the game is comfortably played out to the final whistle.
The loss of two points and a leap up the table to 8th in the final minute of the game resulted primarily from poor decision making in-game by the players on the pitch, NOT zonal marking or the manager's tactics and substitutions.
And for me personally, there were far more positives to take from both the collective and individual performances of the players tonight than negatives that many are claiming.
156 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:46:57
Ancelotti has to take his share of the blame but he's clearly trying to get Niasse in the shop window. He won't try that again and hopefully, we never see him in an Everton shirt again, especially given the fact he's sitting on his contact and not going out on loan. It's his right but he's still a dickhead.
The other subs didn't help either. Coleman didn't know where he was playing and Tom was shite as usual because Tom Davies is not very good. Thought Schnedelin was excellent all game for a change and looked like he did in his first few months.
The game was worth playing, though. Ok, we 'Everton' it up but the game was almost worth losing if it meant Kean got off the mark.
I reckon there are plenty more goals to come from him and he should start every game, from now until end of the season. When he finds a rhythm his value will rocket.
Before tonight he was looking like another potentially failed signing. After tonight I think we've got ourselves an absolute bargain. Kean will be worth triple what we paid for him by end of the season.
157 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:47:02
If the Club decided Gordon was good enough, and they sold Davies and Pickford for an absolute stud of a midfielder and an average, solid keeper?
Would we be a better team?
The problem with egregious mental errors, is you end up asking rhetorical questions like that. Egrefious mental errors force you into that mode of thinking.
Players who continually have their head firmly planted up their ass need to forcefully and quickly pull said heads out of said asses.
I think Tom Davies can do that, in the end. I'm not entirely sure about Jordan. He's an amazing shot stopper - spectacular. But he is a nutter. And at times like this, you can't ignore that characteristic.
158 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:47:26
What we got was the horribly familiar mental collapse. Which seems to affect the whole squad.
We should be relieved that Newcastle's equaliser came with The last kick of the game. Another minute or 2 and I'm confident we would have conceded again.
159 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:49:05
The lad is 19 for fucks sake can't he run around for 90 minutes?
Do Liverpool players ever look knackered the amount of games they play?
Gordon for Bernard would have kept Newcastle pushed back because Gordon has energy, whereas Davies would struggle to outrun a tortoise.
Coleman and Sidibe should not have both been on the pitch at the same time.
As I say, if Marco had made those subs he would rightfully getting ripped to pieces on here now so Carlo for me has proven he's not as tactically astute as we thought.
The same thing was close to happening at home to Brighton last week, too many defensive players on and they almost nick a late equaliser through Murray.
160 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:49:14
Once again our own Davies contrived to lose is the game. He messed about in the corner area giving Digne no chance to clear, corner, goal.
The Davies gives a foul away, misses an easy clearance header and equaliser. The lad isn't good enough at all, too slow, can't control the ball, can't make a 5 yd pass and every game loses the ball at least twice in critical areas. Get rid !
161 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:50:36
162 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:50:41
163 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:50:41
164 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:50:46
165 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:50:53
166 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:50:58
167 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:51:06
Everton must be Latin for bottlers!
168 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:52:06
And yes, if it were me, I would go man for man, in the old British style.
169 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:52:23
170 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:55:36
Average but solid, seems so much better than being flamboyant, when I think about how a goalkeeper should be?
171 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:55:53
Also Tom was not on the field when we were humiliated by Liverpool's U15 side at Anfield a couple of weeks back.
Whatever our problems are they run much deeper than Tom Davies.
172 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:55:59
173 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:58:04
We were winning 2.0 FFS to a side riddled with injuries, away from home and who were not that arsed on the night. You don't bring on "fresh legs" to sit back and defend, you push the ball up into safe spaces and push the game out, at the same time, running the clock down.
Why the fuck have we not got players like Bernard, Walcott and Keane who came off but should surely have 90 mins in them.
Davies and Niasse should never wear the shirt again after that gutless display.
174 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:59:17
Yes he makes some goods stops but in big moments he's piss weak.
Every time that ball is in the air from crosses or set pieces he's a flapper and as a defender I can't imagine that ever instilling any confidence.
You could never imagine Big Nev or Nigel Martyn being so vulnerable on these areas, that for me is what will always stop Pickford being a top keeper, another player that has regressed instead on progressed this last 18 months.
175 Posted 21/01/2020 at 22:59:26
If we got rid of Pickford and replaced him with anyone who could command his 6 yard box, let alone area, we would be a better team.
The ground was stunned come full time. I doubt anyone could believe the last 2 minutes.
A goalie has to come or stay but if he comes he has to either get the ball or get a good clearance.
Pickford has never achieved this.
As I mentioned earlier Walcott and Kean were blowing well before they were subbed.
We do lack leaders on the pitch but regardless the goalie has to rule the penalty area, certainly the six yard box.
2 points dropped tonight and 2 against West Ham. We could and should be well up there
176 Posted 21/01/2020 at 23:00:10
177 Posted 21/01/2020 at 23:01:34
178 Posted 21/01/2020 at 23:02:00
You cannot polish a turd as they say and we have got a steaming hot £400 million pound one right under our noses
179 Posted 21/01/2020 at 23:04:29
180 Posted 21/01/2020 at 23:07:38
Still scratching my head, it feels like only Everton can manage to throw games away like this.
One of our most dominant games this season only to throw it away at the end.
No need whatsoever to make any of the subs. Doesn't help that Pickford is anchored to his line and that all 3 subs weakened us.
You gotta laugh following us otherwise you would go mad.
Not sure about the players needing a rest, think us fans need a break every now and then.
Got to go, the men with the white coats are at the door.
181 Posted 21/01/2020 at 23:09:47
182 Posted 21/01/2020 at 23:09:52
The one thing I don't understand is why Niasse is on the bench at all, never mind bringing him on. Surely this was a moment to give Anthony Gordon more minutes in a game we were winning and looking comfortable.
Though still in shock I am still confident Carlo will be a great success.
183 Posted 21/01/2020 at 23:11:44
184 Posted 21/01/2020 at 23:12:00
While I'm sure we'd all love to know what promises Carlo has been given ref transfer budget, my concern is that Brands has been reported as saying that we are not in the position of shopping for £50+ million players.
185 Posted 21/01/2020 at 23:13:59
186 Posted 21/01/2020 at 23:15:22
Schneiderlin put in a couple of passes which were superbly incisive and he looked back to his best.
Young Kean was a joy to watch, full of life and promise.
It's not all shit after that game, far from it. The rhythm of our play and the crispness of our transitions were a pleasure to see. God knows why the manager chose to fuck with it.
I'd give Lossl a go by the way.
187 Posted 21/01/2020 at 23:19:39
Yes, Kenwright played terribly tonight. Should have been substituted.
188 Posted 21/01/2020 at 23:20:07
poor subs - yes. losing composure yes - been like that for while.
I'll take the 92 minutes and try and forget the last two.
189 Posted 21/01/2020 at 23:23:02
The calamities I fear will remain, until the club builds the core around some real leaders of men on the pitch.
It's almost a case of not if, but when, another cock up is gonna happen in or just outside our box.
Pray to God that our two powerhouse midfielders get back soon, but unlikely and they will take time to get going.
The self proclaimed leader of the team on the pitch Fabian Delph, doesn't do it, and I think time seriously to make a new captain to start the gradual transition, at this time in terms of psyche and in summer hopefully with new players.
But I'm not sure if FFP, means there's a limit to our spend unless we sell, and make good profits.
Whatever, this squad, could be knocking on the Europa door, but the last two games, show they have no tactical game management and combat nous, to win and see out games.
No more cliches to say, but there's some genuine rays of hope, but Carlo will need to get some players, who have heart, fight, desire to win and be professional for 96 mins, every game they play.
190 Posted 21/01/2020 at 23:25:12
191 Posted 21/01/2020 at 23:25:59
Absolutely. OK up until these fuck ups in the last minutes.
"And for me personally, there were far more positives to take from both the collective and individual performances of the players tonight than negatives that many are claiming".
Up until those goals that was the best performance of the season. Ancelotti has them playing. Blistering performances by Kean, DCL, Bernard, Holgate.
192 Posted 21/01/2020 at 23:26:22
As for the much-maligned subs, Coleman and Davies didn't really bother me in the moment, though Davies sadly is deserving of all the scorn being thrown his way. Niasse made no sense whatsoever - even if you subscribe to the theory that he's being put in the shop window, how much of a case is he going to make for himself in a few minutes of action? There's no upside.
That being said, I'm not sure the subs really conceded the advantage to the degree some are making out though. Newcastle looked a lot more fluid over those last ten minutes or so, but they still weren't threatening in the slightest until that ill-fated corner kick. We flat-out crapped the bed at the end, plain and simple.
193 Posted 21/01/2020 at 23:30:19
Think it is time to give Lossl a run out.
194 Posted 21/01/2020 at 23:30:52
Being an Evertonian requires a stoicism that one must, it seems to me,be bred in the bone.
Ancelotti out!!!!.( kidding, by the way)
195 Posted 21/01/2020 at 23:34:26
The subs were absolutely certifiable. Pickford (not for the first time) and Carlo only have themselves to blame. Why bring Bernard and Kean off? We don't have another game for ages! Idiotic.
196 Posted 21/01/2020 at 23:38:58
1) What the fuck did Delph blast the ball back into 50/50 territory straight from the kickoff instead of trying to maintain possession?
2) Why has Tom Davies still not matured as a player with three years and over 80 games experience under his belt, why does he not realise his limitations and lack of pace will NOT take him past players?
3) What the fuck is Coleman doing standing in no mans land?
4) What the fuck is Pickford doing on BOTH goals? Why is he behind his line on the second?
The guy has major mental issues.
I still can't believe it!
197 Posted 21/01/2020 at 23:39:40
198 Posted 21/01/2020 at 23:41:00
Instead he passed 5 yards to Davies who was already marked and under pressure. Holgate did the sensible thing and cleared it for a throw in and that lead to the corner.
Their player, 6 yards out, unmarked scores. He was in between zones. I'm not sure who to blame for the poor marking but I do know our attempts at zonal marking have been pathetic and need to to stop.
From the restart why did we rush punting the ball forward?
Anyway.. Davies concedes a free kick. He didn't do much wrong but we had no one within 30 yards of the free kick. They had time to pass it a few times and pick out a runner. They should have been closed down and forced to rush it or play it first time.
Blaming Davies for missing a header that was 4ft above his and Holgates head is ridiculous. Digne was not in position. Holgate didn't stay marking his man and Pickford jumping 3ft behind his goal line is just stupid.
Silly free kick, yes, unlucky and totally avoidable yes. Absolutely shocking end result (not for the first time) absolutely.
But I'll look at the positives and I'm happy for both our forwards who scored and played well.
Ancelotti needs to learn quickly about players, tactics, marking and hopefully give a few more youngster a chance to impress before the season is out.
I get we all have different perspectives and opinions but once again IMO a young player is unfairly blamed for conceding 2 goals after giving away one free kick on the half way line. Go figure?
199 Posted 21/01/2020 at 23:43:40
A week in the Scottish highlands in their undies (to toughen them up) would be far more suitable imo.
200 Posted 21/01/2020 at 23:45:09
Tom Davies ? There may come a time when being ever so gently critical of the lad doesn't bring down the wrath of the “local lad protection leagueâ€ but somehow I doubt it. We've given him a juicy new contract with no doubt wages the best Championship clubs can't match and he's unlikely to attract many offers from prem clubs. He's desperately slow, careless, lacks discipline and loses concentration very easily. But he's local,and he did score that goal against Man City. Sigh, it's so bloody Everton. We need funds this window and even after a season where I think this decent lad has been badly found out, maybe just maybe a struggling side below us could be tempted to take him for £12m ? Cue howls of anguish but for pity's sake surely he's not going to change enough or train on. and on again to survive Carlo's revamp ?
As for the rest, starting to really worry about Pickford. He has too many blips now. Couple of very good saves v West Ham but tonight conspired with Tom and couple of others to really cost us the three points. And yes I get it that we also missed a few really good chances to double the lead. It's just a thought but I'm not sure he will go to Euro's as no1 ?
Head keeps moving left to right as I still cannot honestly believe even we let this happen.
201 Posted 21/01/2020 at 23:46:22
Everton Football Club goes to great lengths to embarrass its fans each time it sets foot on the pitch whilst we share a city with a team clean sweeping Europe with a machine like great team.
This season will be well and truly summed up for me watching the Redshite lift the Premier League title at Goodison at the end of March, it's a certainty.
202 Posted 21/01/2020 at 23:47:34
No answer came the stern reply!
203 Posted 21/01/2020 at 23:47:50
This was down to the players. Unprofessional! I suppose they will be off for a week in the sun now? Thanks lads!
204 Posted 21/01/2020 at 23:48:19
Niasse and Martinez, as low as we have ever sunk.
205 Posted 21/01/2020 at 23:53:17
Yes he hit a purple patch when he tripped a few into the net and a few went in off his arse but he's an absolutely terrible footballer simple as that, and it just makes us as fans look pathetic worshipping donkeys like this, fans at Spurs, Liverpool, Leicester even wouldn't tolerate bollox like we do.
206 Posted 21/01/2020 at 23:54:30
207 Posted 21/01/2020 at 23:58:39
I am absolutely seething about that tonight, I thought I'd seen it all with this club but that tonight?
That's just takes the absolute piss!
2-0 up with 60 seconds left.
From 8th to 12th in 60 seconds at home to a Newcastle team that didn't look like scoring if they'd played all week.
Nil Satis Nisi Fuckin Optimum
My fuckin arse!!
208 Posted 21/01/2020 at 23:58:42
Right, had enough of this. On one hand you buddy up with a lot of our Merseyside based fans and seem like you wouldn't hurt a fly and then after a defeat you get spiteful. You have previous for this but for whatever reason don't get curtailed by Lyndon or Michael.
To call Tom Davies a moron with a low IQ is just contemptible.
Context is required here. Yes he made a mistake but Digne didn't exactly cover himself in glory.
Then let's get onto Ancelotti's original line up and subsequent subs. Can we also wonder why we weren't more goals up against a pathetic Newcastle side?
But let's not look at the experienced veterans in the midfield who didn't put them to the sword because they have no real attacking threat or the clumsy striker that was sent on. Let's just abuse the young lad who cares more for the club than anyone else on the pitch.
The way the career of Tom Davies is being managed by Everton is shocking. He gets dropped for months, then shoved in when we have injuries or are struggling and then is expected to perform well immediately in a run of crucial games with a variety of midfield partners.
He usually gets dropped as one coach after another persists with clowns like Schneiderlin and so it continues.
Tom has the habit of giving the ball away because he tries to be brave. Yes, he makes mistakes.
But we should have been either 3 or 4 up against an abject Newcastle side or the players a decade older than him like Schneiderlin and Delph able to step in and slow the game down.
For someone who features on just about every thread and claims they played the game, you don't half come across as some RS fan from Cornwall who has never kicked a ball.
209 Posted 21/01/2020 at 00:00:43
jim@201 - stoicism as someone earlier said
'the endurance of pain or hardship without the display of feelings and without complaint'
tis a cross to bear
210 Posted 21/01/2020 at 00:01:47
This hasn't happened overnight it has been at least a decade in the making, if not longer. Dropping points to far less-talented teams home or away has become the norm not the exception.
Duncan Ferguson must have the inside track on how this current crop will react to certain challenges and he must have his own ideas on how to avoid calamaties like we witnessed in the final two minutes of tonight's game, but will Carlo listen to him? Does Carlo seek his advice before or during a match? Did Carlo do his homework on the players he has at his disposal? Does Duncan offer his opinions and ideas to his boss?
Twice in the last two home matches, questionable decisions have been made which could have cost us points, the Brighton game we just about got away with it, tonight we didn't - citing Instanbul is hardly a good point to make to those of us who reside on Merseyside and once again a 'world' name in football seems to underestimate the strength of feeling of most local fans when it comes to our nearest and not so dearest rivals.
I'd much prefer that Carlo had said he had made a mistake with his subs or his tactics rather than say 'these things happen!'. We all know that to be the case but when they happen to our team, game upon game, month upon month, season upon season, we need more than a shrug of the shoulders to placate us. We want all the staff at Goodison to root out the reasons, why it happens so often, to our team. We want all of the playing staff to address the issues and find the solutions to prevent it from happening again.
This season is not yet over and due to tonight's silliness we aren't safe from the dreaded drop. Tonight, we should have been looking at those teams above us as we closed the gap on them, instead we are left to worry about the remainder of the campaign and how this current crop can manage to make a bad season even worse.
Get it fixed Carlo, there's no time to lose.
211 Posted 21/01/2020 at 00:03:05
Here's what. He should have picked up his boots, walked to the dressing room told Ancelotti that Niasse is a useless c**t, and demanded that he take his place.We would have won and Blue Bill would be a legend.
212 Posted 22/01/2020 at 00:04:58
213 Posted 22/01/2020 at 00:09:49
214 Posted 21/01/2020 at 00:10:54
(1) The substitutions were a disaster.
(2)The present team do not know the basics of finishing off a game
(3)For the last goal Pickford was standing two feet behind the line. If he catches the ball it will be a goal.
(4)Pickford is a great stopper who cannot command his area on corners and free kicks
(5)We have too many players who just do not "THINK". I will not name them,but we all know who they are.
(6)I don't think that Ancelotti is an arrogant man. I think he will learn from this game.
(7)I will also learn from this game. As a Super Senior I continue to realise that you have to be strong,loyal and DAFT to be an Evertonian but I cannot change.
215 Posted 21/01/2020 at 00:12:13
216 Posted 22/01/2020 at 00:13:32
When asked if he would analyse with the players, what went wrong in the last few minutes, he said no,because nothing had gone wrong!
I beg to differ.
217 Posted 21/01/2020 at 00:13:50
I've never previously had a go at Davies but it's becoming more and more apparent he's never going to be a top Premier player. He makes himself available and likes to move forward but this is far outweighed by his inability to go past a man, often resulting in him losing the ball and then committing needless fouls. This cost us 2 points tonight and ultimately cost us both the goals and all 3 points against Brighton away.
Ancelotti must take most of the blame by making some strange substitutions. Two of the players he introduced were instrumental in the 2 goals. The first goal resulted from Niasse losing possession in the centre and then not trying to retrieve the situation. Davies' errors for the second have been well documented on previous posts but, as the defender, Digne must take some responsibility, too. At that stage of the game you either belt it up the line or aim for row Z. Not too difficult to understand, even for some of our dim players
To me the obvious substitutions would have been to replace a
tiring Bernard with Gordon after about 70 mins and maybe bring on Keane near the end. I could understand bringing Coleman on at right back because Sidibe was having another nightmare. Ancelotti's substitutions disrupted the pattern of the side and we lost all momentum
Like at West Ham, most of Newcastle's attacks started with us passing the ball to them and we still persisted in pfaffing about across the back. Although Ancelotti picked up on this after Saturday's game it was happening again, tonight. Why do some of our players find it so difficult to make a 5 yard pass?
MoM, for me was Holgate. Also credit to Schneiderlin who had a half decent game as did Walcott. Digne was again poor and his corners are usually dreadful. Does he practice hitting the first defender? I'm also starting to doubt if Mina will ever get a header on target!
218 Posted 22/01/2020 at 00:16:00
219 Posted 22/01/2020 at 00:17:16
And you want Mike Gaynes "curtailed" by the moderators?!
220 Posted 22/01/2020 at 00:17:59
Blaming his substitutions is absurd, who else could have come on and shored things up? The whole squad needs getting shot. There's not one player with a winning mentality in the whole squad!
I think it's naive to blame the manager,
221 Posted 22/01/2020 at 00:18:50
How about throw away a two goal lead and suddenly it's schoolboy stuff and utter shit show from the manager.
Sorry, the players let that slip. Individual mistakes added to a collective loss of concentration.
I mean, it's not as if this same grail of players have been cocking up defensive corners or giving needless free kicks in attacking areas away all season is it?
2 nil up, cruising, shore up and see out. The fact that Davies can't retain possession should be a blotch on him not his manager! We all know how shit Niasse is. But can we expect him to track? Basic expectation
222 Posted 21/01/2020 at 00:19:07
223 Posted 22/01/2020 at 00:19:11
224 Posted 22/01/2020 at 00:20:42
225 Posted 21/01/2020 at 00:21:47
Pickford - I backed him a lot after the mistake at Anfield last season. But now I realise he is the most overrated goalkeeper I have seen. So immature it's unbelievable. How is he 3 yards behind the goal line? Lads a joke. Get rid.
Coleman - Finished!!!! He was finished 3 years ago. But typical Everton pro long a servant when their legs have gone. Same as Howard, Distin, Hibbert and Osman. Great servants but kept them too long after they were finished now Coleman is in that category. Get rid.
Mina - A six foot five centre back who cannot header a ball properly and cannot pass a ball. 30 million down the drain. Yet somehow been a slight positive this season. Shows the mess right now.
Digne - Not the player he was last season. Can not take a corner without beating the first man. Looks nervous going forward. A player who needs a kick up his arse.
Delph - Hopeless!!! Absolutely hopeless. Got this lad in because he is a leader apparently. Bollocks!!! Only thing I've seen him do is argue with fans. Another on for the final big pay. Get rid.
Schneiderlin - How many more chances does this this lad need? He is crap, spineless and a poor professional. What does he offer? Seriously what does he offer? Happily pay for his travel for his next club. Please Fuck off.
Davies - Shit!!! Not good enough in any shape or form. Typical championship player at best. Feel like some fans still live of the goal he scored against City 3 years ago. Not good enough. Get rid.
Walcott - Did not see the hype when he was at Arsenal. Was disappointed when we signed him alone but for 20 million fucking pounds!!!! Waste of time, waste of wages and a average player if that. Another one for the finalb big pay cheque. Get rid.
Niasse - Possibly if not the worst striker or player I have ever seen put on a Everton shirt. Like watching him play is like someone picked him out the stands and said go on. Clueless, wank and awful footballer. Considering the two teams he's been on loan at in England have both gone down shows not a good reading. Just terminate his contract alongside Martina. Awful awful player. Never mind get rid, more like fuck off.
However all other players too are not the greatest either. Just a few examples. Don't get me started on Sigurdsson or Keane. This club is genuienly laughable. As much as I despise them. No wonder the RS laugh at us. If I did not support them. I'd laugh at Everton. Ancelotti is hands down in for the hardest job of his career to date.
If we get European football this season. Then it's shows just how laughable and shite this league is. This league is like the SPL. Especially this season. Same mistakes, same excuses and same old Everton. Always bottling it when there is a opportunity to move upwards. Nil Satis Nisi Optimum means nothing no more.
226 Posted 21/01/2020 at 00:22:11
227 Posted 21/01/2020 at 00:26:42
Answers on a postcard please.
Moving on, when he began his career four years ago Tom Davies was integrated into the England squad as a potentially "bright young thing". He's never been picked since though, unlike Winks, Mount, Hudson-Adoi and others of his age.
To me, and I regret to say it, he's displaying all the career characteristics of his uncle Alan, a bright start quickly fading into mundanity but, mercifully for Everton, somewhere else in Whittle's case.
But at least at FF Davies can mercifully turn to Unsy and Dunc, and Ebbrell and Jeffers, and now Sharpy of course, to try to grasp what it takes to achieve excellence as a footballer.
228 Posted 22/01/2020 at 00:28:35
229 Posted 22/01/2020 at 00:30:10
I'm still in a state of shock. I had to go back to work with 86 minutes gone. I can't believe it. Well we've now got 2 games (Watford/Palace) in the next 32 days.
230 Posted 22/01/2020 at 00:34:10
Be serious. Why are lots of "fans" on here slagging off our local lads and claiming they have great knowledge of the game and our club when they haven't played or known the game or seen it at British grounds?
It's a bit weird. If Dave or Tony Abrahams say stuff, I listen, or my Auntie and cousin. I listen.
Or Steve Ferns or yourself.
Why have you overlooked the remarks made by the plastic fan?
He said Tom Davies had an IQ score which is classed as retarded. That is indefensible.
231 Posted 22/01/2020 at 00:36:30
232 Posted 22/01/2020 at 00:44:04
233 Posted 22/01/2020 at 00:45:48
Robbed at Brighton by VAR
Lose Gomez for the season
Gbamin out for most of the season
Concede 5 goals away at Anfield
Knocked out of the FA Cup by kids
Lose on penalties in a cup QF
Lose a 2 nil lead In a game we dominated in the 94th & 95th minute
The RS romping away with the league
Please fast forward to August
234 Posted 22/01/2020 at 00:47:10
We were very, very good. There's improvement under Carlo to be sure. Kean scored, as did DCL. We moved the ball wonderfully. Things were much more joined up. We didn't faf around near as much at the back. The team is looking much, much better moving forward under Carlo.
Tom Davies is a good player. I've defended him numerous times and sung his praises previously. I desperately want the kid to succeed. A Floridian has to root for a Surfer Boi amongst a sea of Q-Tip haircuts. But someone has to have a word with him, and he simply must stop giving the ball away at crucial moments in games, in terrible spots on the field, and use better judgement. For me, his bar needs to be raised precisely now at this very moment. If he can't learn from this, he simply will never learn. Give the ball away all day trying to pull off those penetrating, offensive (Yank alert!) passes. Stop giving the ball away or committing fouls in our own third, or in crucial parts of the game. He has to change his ways. But I'm still in hold mode with him, and not sell mode. Too much potential, too young. Unless he keeps giving that damn ball away in our own end / not using his head.
This team, full of younger players I might add, is getting better. They just got kicked in the nuts tonight, along with the supporters. More focus, and more play like the first 90 minutes this evening, and we're on our way up.
I keep preaching patience, it's time to practice what I preach. Things aren't as bad as they seem. From a macro perspective, they're actually good and improving.
Tough fucking loss. Really harsh. But I still think things are improving, and will get better. That won't console anyone tonight I realize, but for me it's worth mentioning.
235 Posted 22/01/2020 at 00:48:51
I know Ancelotti doesnt have much to work with, but you have to ask - and not just because we threw it away...did it really, really, need changing with no game this weekend.
All this shows the league middle places - where we are and will stay - will be decided in direct correlation to the degree of inconsistency shown by each team...all the teams above us are slightly less inconsistent than us.Which is why nobody is putting in a run and galloping up the table.
Not only does Ancelotti need to look at the quality of his Squad, he has to look at the quality of his decisions. This is not the first poor subtitution(s) he's made...but as I said at the top he hasn't got a lot to work with.
A draw snatched from the jaws of Victory - hardly new.
As always with the Country Rd Inconsistants - more questions than answers
236 Posted 22/01/2020 at 00:52:15
You would have though Duncs input should be reasoned with,
After the last game, I am totally baffled at 2 nil up he did not put Gordon on, if the game is tight then fair enough, but e were wave after wave of attack and playing some of our best football of the season, the perfect time to give Gordon another cameo role.
237 Posted 22/01/2020 at 00:53:18
That's out of order as per ToffeeWeb rules of engagement - read them.
238 Posted 22/01/2020 at 01:03:29
Why have you overlooked the remarks made by the plastic fan?
Ouch. That one even hurt me a little bit.
239 Posted 22/01/2020 at 01:05:28
240 Posted 22/01/2020 at 01:05:51
241 Posted 22/01/2020 at 02:03:51
I will give your insults all the consideration they are worth.
*(ponder, ponder, ponder)*
OK, all finished. Thanks again.
242 Posted 22/01/2020 at 03:39:00
243 Posted 22/01/2020 at 03:50:42
I'd agree. We lost to the Geordies tonight but our best manager was a lad from there not a local.
244 Posted 22/01/2020 at 03:56:02
"The way the career of Tom Davies is being managed by Everton is shocking. He gets dropped for months, then shoved in when we have injuries or are struggling and then is expected to perform well immediately in a run of crucial games with a variety of midfield partners." Erm, I know this might sound like a long shot, but, don't you think, if he was playing well, he wouldn't get dropped?
"Tom has the habit of giving the ball away because he tries to be brave. Yes, he makes mistakes." Well that has to be the daftest comment ever on TW: by the same token, you could say Niasse is really a fantastic striker, he just doesn't score any goals due to his bravery.
"But we should have been either 3 or 4 up against an abject Newcastle side or the players a decade older than him like Schneiderlin and Delph able to step in and slow the game down."
Are you serious? The game was played at probably the highest tempo we've seen all season, until 'young' Tom Davies comes on and needs about 5 mins to decide what he's going to do once he receives the ball. He then invariably loses it.
"For someone who features on just about every thread and claims they played the game, you don't half come across as some RS fan from Cornwall who has never kicked a ball." That seems to me like a personal vendetta against a man who has constantly brightened TW threads up with his illuminating stories about his love of Everton, so to accuse him of being a kopite is just churlish - whatever you've got against Mike I've no idea, but whether he's kicked a ball or not, as an Evertonian, he has the right to criticise the team, manager, club etc if he feels justified, so just leave it out and concentrate on the ridiculous statements you've made here; hopefully you'll see the error of your ways, and respect other people's opinions
245 Posted 22/01/2020 at 03:59:28
246 Posted 22/01/2020 at 03:59:30
247 Posted 22/01/2020 at 04:28:38
248 Posted 22/01/2020 at 04:55:27
Before everyone gets on my back... YES - AS A CLUB WE ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR GIVING THIS CLOWN A MASSIVE CONTRACT. YES I WOULD PROBABLY HAVE TAKEN THOSE WAGES TOO AND I'D CLASS HIS LEVEL OF TALENT AS BORDERLINE ABOVE MY OWN.
BUT this fucker - it is quite clear he is a piss-taker. He refuses to leave on loan, numerous times so I hear. He wants to be the fucking sponge with no locker, soaking up wages, and these attempts to put him in the shop-window as embarrassing (and thats all I can assume it is, as a manager with the credentials of Ancelotti cannot possibly think he is genuinely good enough to play for EFC).
I would never wish an injury on a player, but I never want to see this fool play for us again. What a fraud. He cannot control a ball, his time on a pitch is akin to the theory of Shakespeare being typed by an infinite amount of any specific animal. Give him enough time on the pitch and something will come off the fuckers arse or chest or he can toe-poke a chance shot and it will fluke in.
DCL gets some shit on here, Niasse is treated like a cult hero by some. DCL is showing he 'could' be a top-flight footballer. Niasse has shown he is a fucking joker taking this club for everything he can, and because he doesn't get a locker (quite rightly) some people cry about him being treated appallingly. He is a shit shit SHIT footballer. He is an embarrassment to my club. He is one of the laughing stocks of English football, and that makes US the same. The fact this fucking baby giraffe of a player continues to get on the hallowed turf of Goodison wearing the Royal Blue is an utter disgrace.
For anyone who doesnt like this post... you either want a player like Oumar Niasse playing for EVERTON FOOTBALL CLUB, OR YOU DO NOT. Do you ever think we will win fuck all again with him in the squad, I would play an Ellis Simms or a Anthony Gordon or Thomas Cannon or Lewis Dobbin ahead of this fucking ice-skating fool.
"Ohhh but he tries hard" - fuck off. Hes fucking shit. Hes a fraud. Hes a clown. "Oh but he smiles". Yeah I would too if I was taking £60,000 plus a week off a club I didn't give any emotional shit about and then didn't even have to put in the graft once or twice a week on the pitch.
Stop making excuses for this clown and make it clear he is not welcome at this club rather than painting him as a victim, and he might fuck off to a league more suiting for him. Sunday League or National League maybe. But not Premier League. And especially not for a club like Everton Football Club.
LETS NOT FORGET...
NIL SATIS NISI OPTIMUM.
249 Posted 22/01/2020 at 06:11:45
250 Posted 22/01/2020 at 06:36:53
It's the same players that have got Martinez, Koeman, Allardyce, and Silva the sack. The same players that lost to a bunch of kids. This all too Everton, snatching a defeat at the jaws of victory.
Coleman, Pickford, Schneiderlein, Delph, Walcott, Niasse are serial losers. The latest episode in the soap opera of shite. Clear the decks, and start again. The experienced pros, are anything but.
251 Posted 22/01/2020 at 06:45:36
I have no issue with a few angry words. Its the stupid comments which some people spout after every disappointment which make major set backs all the more sickening.
For twenty five years, we have had highly paid managers from different parts of Europe.
These managers have had final say on who comes in. Final say on who goes out. Final say on tactics. Final on Selection. Final say on Substitutions. They have brought in coaches from all over Europe too, all duds like themselves and when they have gone British they have brought in footballing Einsteins like Steve Round. Collectively they have drained the club of enough money to build two stadiums on the Mersey and we are STILL shite.
Don Alexander will always offer a sound solution when we have lost.
Don doesnt have it in him to recognise those who have near destroyed this club. So he batters away at the ex players working in the lower echelons of the club for a fraction of the money the shysters have stolen.
Mr Alexander never has and never will know what these ex players do. What part they play. what their roles are. What contribution they make. He just knows he doesnt like them being there because they once played for the club.
It doesnt matter when they played for the club. Twenty/thirty/forty years ago. They will always find their way into an Alexander excuse, when he is apologising for the latest outside Mercenary.
Fifty years ago Alan Whittle scored enough goals to make an enormous contribution to Evertons title success. He never did become the superstar some expected him to be.. . . But quite why he becomes part of the latest Alexander inquest is... Nah Forget it.
Perhaps you should write an article about it Don. Save you coming back to say the same thing after every set back. Show people what you REALLY know.
I'm sure you'll get lots of responses this time
252 Posted 22/01/2020 at 07:20:06
My Sunday league team could've seen that game out at 2-1. The ball needed to be kept and if that wasn't possible, put it down in their corner and press them back.
Really hoping for a Fire sale in the summer. Apart from: Richarlison, Digne, Gomes and DCL, I wouldn't miss any of the rest of them.
253 Posted 22/01/2020 at 07:23:00
We got rid of a much better player when we sold Joe Williams to Wigan last summer for a song.,He did his bit out on loan and was outstanding at the clubs he played for and then we sold him and kept Davies â€” I just don't understand that logic!
254 Posted 22/01/2020 at 07:28:44
255 Posted 22/01/2020 at 07:37:42
Of course it is upsetting to draw from that position. I can guarantee the players are equally of not more gutted and are embarrassed to boot.
What is positive is the way the way we are playing with much more urgency than under Silva, Bernard is performing much better and Sidibe, whilst positionally is erratic, offensively he offers much more than Coleman since he came back from the nasty leg break.
Continuing improvement in Calvert Lewin is unbelievable, I was one of those criticising him 5 games in and I couldn't see where his goals were coming from. Proving me wrong.
Kean actually looked like a player last night, I would expect Ancelotti speaking Italian will have a big influence on him. It is a real opportunity for Kean and one he looks like he wants to take.
As Ancelotti said to the players after the game, yes, it hurts, but imagine how hurt you'd feel to be 3 nil up in a champions league final and lose, this is nothing.
The improvements are what matters now. Next season set your standards and expectations slightly higher. Mine will be.
256 Posted 22/01/2020 at 07:38:42
I'm still of the view that, despite last night's wreckage, there were real signs of development in our play - crucially in our attacking transitions. It was not passing laterally for the sake of it.
We should still be looking to qualify for Europe. And with a few quality signings, we will have a strong side for next season.
Horrible last night but I think there are serious grounds for optimism.
257 Posted 22/01/2020 at 07:40:16
This is just another nail in the coffin for some of this lot. The summer can't come fast enough.
258 Posted 22/01/2020 at 07:41:06
Everton giveth, Everton take the away.
259 Posted 22/01/2020 at 07:49:35
The first Newcastle goal was inexcusable bad defending as so often from corners and might have been glossed over but for the ridiculous pantomime that immediately followed. For me the blame can be laid squarely at that inane restart from their goal. It was plain as day to see what they were going to do and the restart itself was held up while players were got back behind the half way line - they were champing at the bit - and then Delph (I think, or was it Davies) launches a pointless evidently aimless kick off back towards our goal. Why the fuck we couldn't have played it short and launched the ball down to one of their corners defeats me. As soon as we kicked off I watched with horror as I counted the seconds (literally) down as the team performed a sort of footballing hari-kari in front of my eyes.
However - In the cold light of day I will take comfort from what was a really good performance from what amounted to a ramshackle cobbled together teamand I was thinking "hmmm - maybe we do have some footballers at the club". Now - I am not blaming the guy but if Oumar Niasse had not been on the pitch I guarantee we would have won that, probably 2-0 and today's thread would be a much happier place to be. Absolutely mind boggling to see him appear at the death (again quite literally as it turned out). I really did not worry for the outcome, but wondered why he was brought on (how wrong I was). I understand about wasting a few seconds with the substitutions and so on, but where is it written that one has to employ three substitutes. Sure, players from both sides will be getting tired, but for fucks sake there are another 7 (I discount the GK) who have to keep going. For just 5 minutes or so.
Niasse should have stayed on the bench - he offers nothing when we are in a winning position - and we play out the game with the players on the pitch and we win.
I'm still coming to terms with it but like a sort of earworm, that ridiculous restart from their goal keeps replaying in my mind. What were they thinking of?
260 Posted 22/01/2020 at 07:49:39
A very good performance against a poor side. Pickford misses a routine cross for goal one. Two defenders off the pitch and Pickford behind his line for goal two.
For me 'systems' are always a red herring. I'd like to see an Everton defence with a keeper that has presence, that commands his box, comes for crosses and takes them. You'd see a more 'settled' defence then.
Fair play to Newcastle. They were dogged and they knew that if you launch it into our box, there's a chance Pickford will do something daft. They gambled and won. And then that bunch of indifferent players exploited our mental frailty, as at Anfield.
Tony's right about keepers. They're best judged on what they don't need to do. I'd like a new one, please.
261 Posted 22/01/2020 at 07:54:05
We do not lose, we self-destruct,
Those who understand need no explanation,
Those who don't understand – don't matter
262 Posted 22/01/2020 at 08:05:57
I don't blame the manager. An amateur side should see out a two nil lead in injury time. However, Digne needs to be taken off set pieces immediately. Corners are absolutely woeful. Then that free kick which he put literally about 20 feet over the bar. I don't rate him at all.
263 Posted 22/01/2020 at 08:11:30
And Newcastle - credit where it's due - have won themselves 4 points from about 3 minutes of playing time in two matches. Astonishing.
Look on the bright side - we could be Chelsea. Imagine how their fans felt at the weekend.
264 Posted 22/01/2020 at 08:19:43
265 Posted 22/01/2020 at 08:25:44
266 Posted 22/01/2020 at 08:30:06
25 years of nothing whilst Blackburn Rovers, Portsmouth, Birmingham City, Leicester City, Aston Villa, Swansea City and Wigan Athletic have all won major trophies.
Add to that ridiculous last minute winners in the derby. Losing to kids in the derby. Not having won a derby for a decade. Blowing a two goal lead after 94 minutes.
267 Posted 22/01/2020 at 08:38:13
Everton make the impossible a reality, sadly this is often in a negative way but I think many posts on here are a good example of what is wrong with the club.
Rant, rant, rant, blame, blame, blame..
I don't like my house, should I just shun it and buy another up the road?
Sounds great, only I need to put it up for sale, hopefully a buyer will be interested, I can agree to sell it and hopefully find another I like and can afford to buy before I move.
Reality is we want to do lots of things differently, but they take time, money and other people are involved with their own agenda's. It's not easy, especially when everyone else is is looking to buy and sell too.
In the meantime it helps to support and do the best with what we have. Smile people, we've nothing to play for anyway
268 Posted 22/01/2020 at 08:44:47
What made it worse was they even took a striker off for a defender so it's not as if they even through the kitchen sink at us and got lucky.
269 Posted 22/01/2020 at 08:45:03
I don't think Carlo was shutting up shop as someone said, he wouldn't have put Davies and Niasse on if that was the case.
I think he is going through the combinations and giving them all a chance. Niasse for example was there to exploit the inevitable cavalry charge from Newcastle with quick breaks but the fact that he couldn't control the ball when given that opportunity spoke volumes and I don't expect to see him on the pitch for us again. Sadly for me Tom Davies showed why many match goers don't rate him and I no longer think he is the future. And finally, sell Ingerlunds number one and get Pope or any keeper that can catch crosses and at least command his six yard box!
Carlo will sort it! I'm 100% confident of that!
270 Posted 22/01/2020 at 08:50:29
271 Posted 22/01/2020 at 08:58:09
272 Posted 22/01/2020 at 09:09:20
273 Posted 22/01/2020 at 09:17:28
274 Posted 22/01/2020 at 09:19:31
This morning, I'm still furious!
But I have a tad more optimism. It was one of the best 90 minutes we have played this season. We were in total control and created alot of chances against a low block (something we have struggled to do under Silva). We really should have been 3 or 4 goals up when injury time rocked up.
What happened then I'd like to consign to a combination of football freakery and a soft underbelly that is going to take more than a few weeks for Ancelotti to weedle out.
I'm loathe to blame the players too much after what was a great 90 minutes by most of them but for me Pickford is one of my prime concerns. He may be Englands number one and (like almost every keeper in the top leagues) he makes some impressive saves at times but I just think he's a very mediocre keeper. We know that he's not fantastic on crosses and the idea that he's a top class shot stopper is, i'm afraid, just not true. His save % this season is 62% which has him in the bottom 4 keepers in the league. Allison is on 84% while Dean Henderson (the next england keeper?) is on 76%. Pickford's highest percentage at us was 68% in his first season. He does not seem to be improving and I really don't see a top 6 keeper.
As for Everton I think if we keep playing like we did last night then we will win more than we lose. We were missing arguably 4 or 5 players in our strongest XI and yet controlled the match very comfortably for 90 minutes. Kean scored his first which is a great boost to him and we seemed to be creating far more chances than we have most of the season. Plenty of time now to re-gather for Watford who suffered their own collapse and if we can win that and get a few players back then I still think Europe is very gettable.
275 Posted 22/01/2020 at 09:20:33
Kean turned up
Bernard turned up
Walcott looked reasonably dangerous
DCL continued his improvement
I even thought Schneiderlin had a decent game.
Just a ridiculous ending. It's nothing to do with Pickford's arms. It's everything to do with his decision making. Just ridiculous.
276 Posted 22/01/2020 at 09:34:23
How is it possible that almost without exception each of these players has been either terrible at their job, perennially injured, brought in on exorbitant fees and or salary and on too long contracts.
The club looks absolutely ridiculous and is a dumping ground for other clubs' trash.
And that doesn't even take into account the various relationships with agents.
What is going on ? This isn't nil Satis, Nisi optimum.
277 Posted 22/01/2020 at 09:36:49
A keeper that can't command the box and punch that ball away well enough for the 1st goal is going to cost Everton about 10 points a season.
A top keeper adds 10 points a season.
That's a 20 point swing.
Think about that Ancelotti.
I would argue Allisson at Liverpool has added 10 points a season at Liverpool.
278 Posted 22/01/2020 at 09:37:36
Do people expect Carlo to take us straight to CL qualification with a squad of players down to the bare bones when even the full squad when fit is probably not quite good enough?
It is frustrating and will take him time. I don't always agree with some of his decisions but believe he is the man to take us forward and we have to give him thy time and trust to do so.
279 Posted 22/01/2020 at 09:38:43
The disappointment runs deep- we could have been two points off fifth but are now still too close to the bottom three for comfort. I like Tom- I haven't seen the Sky highlights yet but the above comments leave little to the imagination- and usually defend him but players make mistakes and by the sound of it he certainly did that. Does it mean he won't make it as a player- no- but he has to learn and he has to kick on now. DCL has rammed the criticism down people's throats and Moise was copping for a load of it yesterday in the run up to the match but he has now shown that he can do it too. Maybe Toms turn will come yet.
However I don't defend Pickford. I side with those who want a taller keeper who can catch the ball and command the box. Pickford is too erratic and too short. Our defence needs a calming influence and I don't think it's him.
Can anyone say whether any of our more experienced players yelled at Tom to get rid of the ball last night? In my playing days any player messing around with a couple of minutes to go would have been told very clearly to hoof the ball as far from goal as possible in that situation and would then have been read the riot act by any number of colleagues. Did Delph,Morgan, Seamus etc play the senior pro role here or did they keep schtum. If the latter I'd be blaming them as much as Tom.
280 Posted 22/01/2020 at 09:39:29
Everton has become a dumping ground for players that agents can't shift.
Mino Riola and his ilk are good friends with Kenwright.
281 Posted 22/01/2020 at 09:45:09
He wasn't good on the cross but I think it's harsh to blame Pickford for the capitulation.
I also think it's mad to start assigning a specific amount of points a keeper will cost / win you over a season. It's just not that simple.
Did he win us a point against West Ham?
282 Posted 22/01/2020 at 09:59:58
He was warming up when Duncan Ferguson waved him over. As is the way, he had his shorts, socks, boots, and undershirt on, with tracksuit bottoms and top and bib on over them. He rushed over, got mostly changed and then was on the side-lines trying to take a drink and struggling to get his shirt on. He had barely got his shirt on as he ran onto the pitch.
I suppose everyone is different and every situation is different, but surely you need time to just set yourself, concentrate and focus on the task at hand. Of course once you cross the line you should be able to snap into it, and there must be similar situations were a sub has run on, looking ill-prepared, and then scored with their first touch.
It just seemed less than ideal, and perhaps we should have delayed making the substitution until he had his shirt on, focused, and Duncan or Carlo could have a quick word.
Instead, he ran on the pitch, and was immediately sloppy and off the pace. I may be wrong here, I just felt that the way he came on set the tone for how he played.
Oh and by the way, the comments against Mike Gaynes were uncalled for. However Mike, whatever you think about Tom Davies, the fact his he is a very intelligent young man, particularly for a football. Him and Matty Pennington are the only Everton footballers I've ever known to continue their education whilst playing for the club and both got their A' levels (exams taken by 18 year olds that preceed getting into University or College as you call it).
283 Posted 22/01/2020 at 10:07:23
Can't agree, would have to say the opposite.
100% The Manager's fault.
He made the subs. The subs were baffling.
You don't have to make subs!
If your team are playing well (for once, but are ultimately quite fragile and desperately need the confidence boost of a decent performance) then why disrupt their flow when you're only 2-0 up? Even though, I'll admit, the game did have the strong illusion of appearing over.
Still, mistakes are made. And this one was the Manager's mistake. A bit more wisdom was needed there, Carlo. Think twice before changing the team dynamics, willy-nilly. Doesn't seem too smart or wise to me, Ancelotti.
I think he's a chancer, he's just been winging it his entire career.
A Napoli fan I spoke to said he's the worst manager they've ever had, which really shocked them because they thought they were getting an upgrade on Sarri.
The thing that stood out from this brief exchange was â€˜baffling substitutions'.
To those who say this was on the players, I say this, no one was injured, no one needed taking off.
If he'd have kept those players on, we'd have scored again and won 3-0.
Maybe at 3-0, with 6 mins or so to go, then make some pointless subs.
Manager's fault - he disrupted the flow of that game for NO REASON. And he'll do it again.
284 Posted 22/01/2020 at 10:14:37
285 Posted 22/01/2020 at 10:16:13
286 Posted 22/01/2020 at 10:17:17
Mike Corcoran, I asked the question about Butland a few times. I've seen nothing of Stoke so have no idea, apart from he supposedly had a good game last night, of how he has been. There was an opportunity to sell Pickford straight after the World Cup to Chelsea. We refused, and it was good at the time to be seen to keep hold of our star man, and look like a team that is going somewhere.
However, if someone was to give us, say 㿔m for Pickford, and we could pick up someone like Butland (or someone else who is decent) for half that and have 㿀m more to spend on a midfielder or centre-back, particularly a leader that we need, then it's a no-brainer for me.
287 Posted 22/01/2020 at 10:18:45
Plus his pathetic attempt when he was on, almost contradicted his alleged education, what was he thinking? It's not as if it was his first appearance for the first team, and he was nervous or not sure. It was basic, see the game out, and don't do anything stupid!
Admittedly he wasn't alone, but that is hardly a mitigating excuse, I have been bombarded with RS mates sending texts and jokes about our pathetic relinquishment of a two goal lead in a minute.
I could reluctantly accept it if we had been outplayed for most of the game and our goals had been flukes, but it was the exact opposite, Newcastle did absolutely nothing until the 95th and 96th minutes.
Admittedly we should have been out of sight, and their two goals would have made little difference apart from denting our Goal Difference. We still lack that killer instinct, and complacently sit back on one and two goal leads!
288 Posted 22/01/2020 at 10:20:10
I try to read all the posts and I can understand the disappointment and distain in Michael Long's diatribe (225) where he is critical of every aspect of the game, all the players and Everton in general. Come On !! We played well for 93 minutes and then had the most idiotic two minutes in Everton history. It is often very difficult being an Evertonian and those two minutes affect our sanity and in turn our judgement. Tough but I will still always be a Blue.
289 Posted 22/01/2020 at 10:26:24
His education has nothing to do with football. Mike Gaynes said his IQ was 65. It's clearly a lot higher than that. But I knew plenty of very clever people who were brainless on a football field. I also know plenty of clever footballers who are far from it off the football field, our own Wayne Rooney springs to mind.
Derek, don't forget that Calvert-Lewin hit a lovely shot from just outside the box that hit the post and went against the keeper and out for a corner, another day that either creeps inside the post or comes back off the keeper and in. That would have been 3-0 and game over.
John Boon, I agree. Great Post Sam.
290 Posted 22/01/2020 at 10:31:05
I blame Coleman because when he came on the impetus swung just like last week. Forget the fact that we take our best attacking outlet off to manage a left side which was causing no problems and forget that this sub entailed 3 defensive positional switches and had a winger playing up front.
I blame Davies because he was at fault for the goal and is so careless on the ball. Forget the fact that he was brought on by the manager to replace our best technician when we need to manage the game with 7 minutes to go.
I blame Niasse because he's the worst player to play for Everton. Forget the fact that Gordon was on the bench and that the previous subs had meant we were now facing direct balls into our box with 2 mins to go and we had one of biggest players on the bench when they had brought on 2 6ft centre halfs.
I blame Pickford for flapping at the cross. I don't blame the manager as one of the CBs they had brought on was free to challenge the keeper due to us bringing on Niasse and not Keane and Carlos love of zonal marking meant he was first free to challenge and then free to volley it into the net.
I don't blame Carlo I blame Kenwright, Martinez for signing Niasse, any other player I can, Finch Farm, and Everton for being Everton, Walsh, Koeman and the fans.
Actually I've just thought about it I blame no-one. Our mastermind has informed us "I've lost a CL final after leading from 3-0 so it can happen sometimes..there are things in football you can't control. We conceded without any reason..it's just unlucky for this game"
And there you have it despite Carlos 1990 tactics which should have cost us last week and has been a critique at his last few clubs this can all be put down to bad luck.
291 Posted 22/01/2020 at 10:35:14
292 Posted 22/01/2020 at 10:37:39
293 Posted 22/01/2020 at 10:42:36
I firmly believe goalkeeper to be the most important position in any team. It is impossible to retain any level of consistent success without a keeper who is competent in all aspects of his game. Pickford clearly is not. Yes he is capable of the spectacular, but in the next breath he is unable to perform the most basic of tasks required. Inevitably we leak too many goals on a regular basis. A shaky keeper equals a shaky defence. His erratic manner undoubtedly affects his defenders. The only good that can come from last night is if at the very least, the manager realises that Pickford does not warrant automatic selection. Why do we employ other goalkeepers if they are not allowed to prove themselves?
There is an old saying, 'You're only as good as your last song'. Well if you replace 'song' with 'game' we can at least take some positives from last night's disappointment. For long periods we showed improvement in several areas. Notably Moise Kean. At last he shows promise, I never thought possible. I'm not ready to eat my words about him just yet, but it is a start. Hopefully it will continue. It has to be said that Schneiderlin had a very good game. As did Bernard. Holgate continues to impress with calm assurance. On the downside, Digne needs a spell on the bench, he's nowhere near as sharp as last year. Baines should be recalled immediately. There is no need for me to add to the vitriol that Davies has received on here. He is a young player still learning his trade. Admittedly he has been prone to errors of late. Perhaps a spell out of the limelight would do him good, to sharpen up his game. It is nonsense for people to be writing him off at this stage of his career.
294 Posted 22/01/2020 at 10:44:13
295 Posted 22/01/2020 at 10:52:19
This happened to us in the Liverpool Pickford derby. As soon as Allison taps the ball to the defender and the ball is hoofed forward, the game is over. Ref's seem to be allowed to continue play as they see fit but with no repercussions as to why more time was added.
When they score they all hurried back, there was hardly a time delay. Yet the ref allows more time which gives Newcastle one more opportunity. In my opinion again, when the defender taps the ball to the other player on the halfway line, the game is over. Madness that the ref's can get away with more time. It's so inconsistent because some ref's will blow bang on time yet some continue to play. Let's allow one last attack here crazy.
I think an overhaul is needed of the system. Official time keepers are needed, they tell the 4th official what added time there is and no matter where the ball is on the pitch, as soon as the time is up the game is over. Simple as. I love late goals but really the advantage was given to Newcastle last night because the ref allowed it.
296 Posted 22/01/2020 at 10:53:31
We played really well against a very poor Newcastle team. Bernard is an enigma and was excellent last night. Does he only play well against the poorer sides though? Digne much improved apart from his crossing. Schneiderlin was excellent and Delph pretty good too. They dominated against the two young brothers - if only something similar had happened against the Liverpool kids. I am with those criticising Ancelotti with the subs. Kean had run himself out so fair enough but taking Bernard off was a major mistake. Those calling Ancelotti a charlatan etc though are way off the mark.
297 Posted 22/01/2020 at 10:54:36
298 Posted 22/01/2020 at 10:57:12
299 Posted 22/01/2020 at 10:57:27
The positive side is that we were well on top, and could and should easily have won.
The negative side is the usual one of being mentally not quite right. There's no way we should be loosening the grip or relaxing because we're 2-0 up with a few minutes to go against a poor team.
It's that negative, mental fragility, side that really needs to change if we hope to really progress. And it's been a big issue for a long time.
Individual players need to stay focused, but we show a repeat pattern of not being able to do that. The goalkeeper needs to focus, to reduce the chances of stupid mistakes, but at the same time the outfield players need to focus to reduce the number of times the goalkeeper is exposed to such situations.
Pickford is a good goalkeeper, but makes costly mistakes. All the more reason for not exposing him to unnecessary situations where such mistakes are made. Keepers like Pickford are nothing new. There's a whole history of very good keepers who can be too prone to mistakes, but the ones who manage to thrive in successful teams do so because their teammates don't expose them too often.
This difference between mentally strong teams and ones that make too many cock-ups is the difference between being a top team compared with remaining midtable.
300 Posted 22/01/2020 at 10:57:45
Newcastle away last season
Man City away last season
Man City away this season
The list goes on and on. He had nothing to save for 94 mins, yet when he was called upon he messed up. He punched a cross and missed the punch and is a yard behind his line for the second save, so so poor. Not good enough. Never has been, never will be.
301 Posted 22/01/2020 at 10:58:24
You're bang right.
We've hired a manager on top money, who's past-it at the top level.
And I mean the top, top, top drawer.
302 Posted 22/01/2020 at 11:03:50
That is the difference between the mentality that runs through our club and that of the RS. They can be 2 goals down in injury time and still believe they can win the game. We have to be at least 3 goals up in stoppage time before we can all think that the points are in the bag.
It's probably unfair for me to comment having not seen it but I've read a few comments above criticising Pickford. I really think he is overrated and I don't like his attitude. This is the second game against the barcodes that we have thrown away a 2 goal lead because he gets too embroiled in a personal battle against his boyhood club's main rivals. He is too hot headed and plays like a kid in the playground who wants to make glory saves and be involved. He palms the ball back across goal so he can make a double save. I'm sick of seeing it. His distribution was supposed to be his strong attribute but I just see a player who invariably finds touch or an opposition player. Every now and again he finds a team mate and starts an attack but those few moments cloud our judgement. I'd like to see the stats on how many times he relinquishes possession. I'd prefer a keeper who is as reliable in the first minute as he is in the last and is a calming presence at the back.
In some ways, this result might prove to be a blessing. Ancelotti needs to realise the lack of quality in key areas and address it. The likes of Schneiderlin, Mina, Davies, Niasse, Keane, Delph, Iwobi, Walcott are not good enough for what this club expects and will prevent Ancelotti from achieving anything with us that would justify his huge salary. At the very least we need a reliable centre-half, creativity in midfield and a goalscorer. We also need to start recruiting players who are born winners because it is the same old failings that cost us: silly free-kicks in dangerous areas, switching off at set pieces, not being able to close out games etc.
Same old Everton.
303 Posted 22/01/2020 at 11:07:12
304 Posted 22/01/2020 at 11:12:51
This guy has managed some of the best teams in the league and let's have it right Newcastle couldn't of got any luckier last night. They brought a defender on who went up front because they had no fit strikers, he then scores an overhead kick and a goal mouth scramble goal, in 94th and 95th minute. Madness.
Yes I think his Niasse sub was a strange one but bringing Coleman on who is a defender and Davies who is a midfielder to see out our victory was tactically correct and if we would of won the game it would of been lauded as the correct decisions. It was a complete fluke but if you want to point the finger at someone, do it at Pickford not Carlo.
Let me ask you who you wanted in instead of Carlo?
305 Posted 22/01/2020 at 11:14:08
306 Posted 22/01/2020 at 11:19:58
Its Everton again though isn't it, supporting this club scambles your brain.
I think we need to get a witch doctor or one of our mystics in to exorcise the evil spirits.
Not that I believe in mumbo jumbo but its worth a try is it not!
As it is I think we will finish in 9th or 10th position, Ancelotti has the players performing well in the short time he's been here.
307 Posted 22/01/2020 at 11:31:42
308 Posted 22/01/2020 at 11:36:22
If Carlo had brought on Gordon instead of Niasse, would we have won 2-0?
The reason we lost this game was down to Pickford not dealing with a cross for the first goal, and then standing behind the line to stop the second goal.
It's nothing to do with the subs.
309 Posted 22/01/2020 at 11:38:38
He has won the Champions League, Ligue 1, Budesliga and Premier League within the 10 years alone. So there must be some weird time continuum shit going on here to explain it all.
Last night was an embarrassing farce all round. Let's move on.
310 Posted 22/01/2020 at 11:50:17
He seemed in upbeat spirits after the match, refused to criticise the players and said we played well.
However, in private behind that closed door I'd like to think he's read the riot act after that collapse.
311 Posted 22/01/2020 at 11:50:22
Then everything collapsed.
The ball is round so things like this can happen but the probability must be extremely unlikely.
We must now move on. We played really well and if we continue like this (except for the last 2 minutes) there will be no problems in the future.
Rome was not built in a day so we must give Carlo time to turn this super tanker on the right course.
Up the Toffees
312 Posted 22/01/2020 at 11:55:24
If Anthony Gordon had come on, he would have put in more effort for sure. Niasse came on and strolled around the pitch. He didn't close any defenders down. Delph had to practically push him out the way to do just that, doing his job for him. Playing even 10 minutes last night, would have meant the world to Gordon. He would have given it everything. He would have chased after defenders and when the ball came to Niasse, he would not have surrendered it so meekly.
The other factor is, Gordon would have given the crowd an extra impetus. There's nothing like a local lad taking his first steps to get the crowd to roar encouragement, no matter who it is or how good he is. And I do mean roar, not polite encouragement.
But yes, Danny ultimately we lost that game, not just because of the subs, but due to errors.
313 Posted 22/01/2020 at 11:58:31
314 Posted 22/01/2020 at 12:05:03
315 Posted 22/01/2020 at 12:09:59
316 Posted 22/01/2020 at 12:10:30
Moise Kean: that's what we bought him for. Thrilled me.
DCL: continues his upwards progression. He couldn't last year but can now.
Bernard: crackled and fizzed all the time he was on the pitch.
Holgate: developing a solid reliability.
And we're on a bit of a roll perhaps in accumulating points.
Let's see the season out, hope the above players continue their development, hope one or two (Gordon? Gibson? Branthwaite?) can move up from the U23s; let Carlo have a look at Gomes, Gbamin, Iwobi; shift the weaker parts of the squad; get in a few mega signings.
Onwards and upwards.
And my apology to anybody I might have offended last night. We were all angry about that ending.
317 Posted 22/01/2020 at 12:10:54
Everton are lucky they have any supporters left with how we get treated. Utter disgrace of a club!
I can see last night having a knock on effect now.
I expect relegation now! We fucking deserve it too.
318 Posted 22/01/2020 at 12:12:19
Think it was Souness or Redknapp, one of the pundits.
320 Posted 22/01/2020 at 12:20:46
You've seen the u23s more than myself, particularly live, would you trust 19 year old Ellis Simms on the bench now? Or would you go with Walcott?
321 Posted 22/01/2020 at 12:22:46
322 Posted 22/01/2020 at 12:22:53
324 Posted 22/01/2020 at 12:31:36
I was critical of CA following the Brighton game as I felt we escaped with the points despite of, not because of his substitutions. I believe the same of last night, although we didn't get the points we deserved.
Although some players were gassed (M Kean for one. he worked his arse off), we were bossing them prior to the subs and if any strategy was justified, to boss them more and bury a vital 3rd should have been front and center.
There's something that makes absolutely no sense to me still and that's the introduction of Niasse while Gordon remains on the bench. There must be a reason beyond CA's tactics for his use in this and the last game as Brands has been explicit at the AGM that he has no future at the club and I can't imagine CA rates him. If the goal was to get a player on the make a nuisance of himself and badger the Toon's defense, then why not Gordon who was buzzing after his lively last cameo and has a future with the club.
There's more to it with the use of Niasse. Contract related? Shop window if he manages something semi-special? Whatever the remit, let's shelve it. Contributed to dropping 3 points and collective morale.
We've suffered a recent run of managers who seemingly become 'locked in' to their tactics and let's hope this doesn't not become the case with a manger who has proven to be intelligent and flexible throughout his career. I can't help but put last night's dropped points at his doorstep, even after the dust has settled. Onwards.
325 Posted 22/01/2020 at 12:31:42
326 Posted 22/01/2020 at 12:36:55
A contribution roughly every 11 games Slow, can't pass, can't tackle, an absolute liability, strolls through games. He's simply not good enough. Everybody is entitled to an opinion but 107 games in, he's not improved at all and had his chance so it's time to get shut.
327 Posted 22/01/2020 at 12:57:42
328 Posted 22/01/2020 at 12:58:54
Those who think he did should watch that game again.. watch what we does everytime he makes a pass... he stops, doesnt attempt to find space, or anything to accomodate receiving the ball back.. absolutely nothing, nada...In some instances he even hid behind an opposing player to make sure he didnt get it back.
What players do with the ball is only half of the story (especially when 90% of it is cautious, protect my stats, sidewards and backwards 10 yard passes)
The man is a grade A coward and a fraud of a footballer... and he is certainly fooling some of you.
329 Posted 22/01/2020 at 13:00:47
The key is for the players to concentrate and play until the final whistle blows something they failed to do. There was no excuse for what happened last night and it certainly wasn't the fault of the referee and the amount of added time.
330 Posted 22/01/2020 at 13:04:33
And you positing that I only ever have a go at ex-players is a bit silly isn't it? You and I are, with more than a few others, lambasting Kenwright for his endless tomfoolery and worse, you know, the guy who's employed all the managers you lambast and the coaches in my sights.
331 Posted 22/01/2020 at 13:17:24
Morgan has one more season left after this. Let's hope he can be persuaded to take a wage cut to get a new club on the basis that he needs to think about the next 5 years (he's only 30) and not the next 12 months (after the summer).
332 Posted 22/01/2020 at 13:18:00
You're right about it being a minimum time, but as far as I know, a goal being scored or a substitution being made, each adds 30 seconds minimum to the the added time. It's where the added time comes from in the main. So a goal scored in added time would add 30 seconds minimum to the added time.
Everton came unstuck a few years against Chelsea when they scored against Chelsea in added time, Barkley I think. They were deemed to have over celebrated, which resulted in Chelsea, Terry, scoring in the 97th minute of 5minutes of added time.
333 Posted 22/01/2020 at 13:22:26
334 Posted 22/01/2020 at 13:22:47
Exactly what I said to the guy next to me last night, and we've said this before. He'll argue no doubt that he's covering space. There's only one space I'd like to see him in - NASA might be able to help.
335 Posted 22/01/2020 at 13:29:59
Steve, God I wish I had a crystal ball. What I do know is that, although Walcott, in fairness, has some good "moments", every time I see a U23 player step up I get a thrill of anticipation and hope (not just hope for us but for the lad himself). Simms has developed well this season IMHO. Yes he could step up, no he couldn't. God I wish I knew. The thing is he can be tried at the end of a game, when and if we're a few up (because we never lose a lead of a couple of goals right at the end!) and he'd be upfront where any error can't be directly punished.
Can't wait to see Branthwaite in a run of U23 games. This Friday and next Monday all get your arses to the Southport Superdrome to see the U23s.
336 Posted 22/01/2020 at 13:31:36
Our younger generation of Evertonians having to put up with nothing for 25 years.
We the older generation are gut wrenched as well, we have had our fair share of let downs, but also seen some great Everton teams.
I really hope Carlo lands some success for you to enjoy because you deserve a medal spending a life time of nothing at our Club.
So gutted as I am from last night, I still have the memories stored of standing on the Gwladys Street and watching some of the greatest players we had playing in the a Blue Jersey.
So for you younger generation, my heart goes out to you, I really hope we land some Silverwere, not just for every Evertonians but for you guy as well.
Keep the faith.
337 Posted 22/01/2020 at 13:32:33
Still miffed at the injury time. 4 minutes is fine but to allow them one more attack is what haunts me. Seems to actually to us quite a lot when you think about it.
338 Posted 22/01/2020 at 13:36:47
They could have been in 8th. position this morning, not that is really something to gloat about given the mediocrity of the Prem. this season but as usual Everton blow the opportunity anyway.
Who gets the chop from this squad is a big topic for discussion but as I keep mentioning, the team lack a solid leader in the Peter Reid mold. What happened late in yesterday's game was the perfect example of a lack of concentration and discipline when it was really necessary.
Carlo's substitutions where also weird and did't help at all.
These days there can be so much time added on at the end of the game that these professionals must know a game is never over until that final whistle goes.
Remember the RS game last season at Analfield when they blew it in the 96th. minute. and they still haven't learnt from that.
339 Posted 22/01/2020 at 13:36:57
On Simms, I thought first 5 games he looked out of his depth, then he found his feet, then he started scoring regularly, and he seems to grow every single game. For me, he's reached the point where he is too good for that level.
So, now Brands needs to ask himself the question, can I persuade Carlo Ancelotti to give him a go, and he'll need to start by getting involved in first team training. If not, would another 6 months of u23 football actually beneficial or would it be better to get him into League 1? (Note the Championship might be his level, but I'd want him to get games, to score goals and to get some confidence for 6 months, and then see where he's at in the summer, and if still short, then try himself in the Championship).
I think Simms has effectively completed his education, and now he needs to get some first team football.
340 Posted 22/01/2020 at 13:41:28
341 Posted 22/01/2020 at 13:41:33
342 Posted 22/01/2020 at 13:44:41
I don't think I can do a better job than Carlo.
I was calling for subs last night, around the 68 min mark, thought it needed freshening up a bit.
What I'm worried about, is that Carlo's subs sent a message out to the fans and players that this game was over and we just need to see it out. But there was 25 mins left!
He tried to preserve 2-0 instead of going for 3-0, that's my gripe. It was wide open for a hammering of Newcastle, and a confidence boost for everyone.
I don't think this game is an anomaly, I think it was a poorly managed last 25 mins, that led to certain players, who can be liabilities, making crucial errors.
He changed the backline, Coleman is not what he was, he put Davies on the left, why?
He also tried to close the game out at 1-0 against Brighton. If he doesn't learn from this, and keeps making these negative and disruptive and daft (Niasse) subs, then we'll all start pointing the finger towards him.
We played brilliantly for 70 odd mins, we should have won 4-0. I know â€˜these things happen', but let's see how often they happen.
It's just plain complacency. Learn from it!
I'm on board with Carlo for the way we played in most of that game, I just think we're seeing his weak points very early on in his reign here.
Carlo's subs caused the complacency.
From that point on, the players have to take blame too, BUT, they're not a supremely confident side who can see games out professionally. They need to build confidence. Score more goals.
I'm frustrated and angry because we've got a 10 day break now, we could have kept going and scored more and run ourselves into the ground, and left the pitch feeling good.
Ancelotti created the anxiety of trying to â€˜see the game out', he didn't have to do that.
The way the players responded to those tactical changes, yes, it was amateur.
This has upset me more than the RS game, only because I was so excited when Kean scored. FFS
343 Posted 22/01/2020 at 14:02:45
344 Posted 22/01/2020 at 14:02:50
That's a great should about Nick Pope. That kid is a ridiculously solid keeper. If there was anyway to swap dollars by offloading Jordan and bringing in "The" Pope, I'd jump at it.
Quality keeper, level head, shot stopper, commands his area, all of it. Not as acrobatic as the keepers that grab headlines, but goodness he's fantastic. I know, I've seen a fair number of Burnley games.
345 Posted 22/01/2020 at 14:13:01
346 Posted 22/01/2020 at 14:15:50
347 Posted 22/01/2020 at 14:20:02
We do need a central midfielder to improve, but the question is, do we really it need it now, or does it make more sense financially to wait and see where we are at in the summer. The reason for waiting is threefold:
1. The recovery of Gomes
2. The recovery of Gbamin
3. That FFP will have relaxed a little to allow us more money to sign better quality and there will be a better selection of midfielders to choose from.
In other words, do we go to Lidl now and spend what's left of our rainy day fund, or do we wait until after payday and go to Waitrose?
348 Posted 22/01/2020 at 14:20:45
349 Posted 22/01/2020 at 14:21:35
Agreed. The other thing is (as with Erickson at Spurs -- allegedly), players near the end of their deal aren't going to bust their ass and risk injury knowing they are out of work in a few months.
350 Posted 22/01/2020 at 14:39:39
Wait. Wait until summer, Carlo sees what he's got, make an astute and impactful signing.
Bring in someone in now, for me, doesn't make sense. We really need to trim more deadwood this summer if possible, and get our financial house in order, while the kids grow into players or real quality.
351 Posted 22/01/2020 at 14:48:15
352 Posted 22/01/2020 at 14:48:39
353 Posted 22/01/2020 at 14:49:53
When your son is young, you attempt to provide every opportunity for them to succeed, and nurture their talents. We've done that with Tom.
Around 13 to 14 years of age, you start hammering home the "responsibility lesson." You need to ween them off of providing for them, so they can begin to take personal responsibility for their actions. Lines like, "I'm not punishing you, you, by your actions, have chosen to be punished." Ya, know, stuff like that. The introduction to manhood as it were. We've done that with Tom the last two years, in a footballing sense. Forgiven his mistakes, knowing he's going to make them, and then suggesting he needs to take responsibility for his actions.
Finally, your son around the age of 16 or so, has the cord cut. It's your life, make your own decisions, I've taught you what to do, now go do it. Own up to your decisions and live with the consequences of your actions, good or bad.
That is where we are at with Tom Davies, for me. The ball is entirely in his court. It's time to cut the cord. You either start making good, intelligent, solid decisions, or you'll need to take responsibility and live with the consequences of your actions.
Good luck Tom, I'll be rootin' for ya.
354 Posted 22/01/2020 at 14:49:57
I see no point investing now. There's every likelihood the "big six" will take the Euro spots albeit via winning cups in the cases of Spurs/Arsenal/Utd. Leicester are out of reach. Sheff Utd and Wolves also look out of reach however bizarre that sounds. So I see little point spending a lot of money when the upside is maybe 5 million more based on finishing say 8th instead of 10th. Also when have we ever had an immediate and lasting impact from a January signing? Donovan was OK but came and went in 2 months. Arteta did well eventually but was on the bench when he first arrived so it wasn't instant gratification. Then we've had the likes of Walcott, Tosun, Beattie. It's not a pretty story.
355 Posted 22/01/2020 at 14:50:17
Still pissed off about us collapsing. I had a feeling they would score the second Digne hesitated to clear the ball after receiving that backpass from Davies. He should have just belted that as far up the pitch as he could get it. So aggrevating!
356 Posted 22/01/2020 at 14:56:49
My issue with Schneid is the same as my issue with Davies, Gomez, Sig. All of them have the odd game where they play well but all of them have more games when they're either anonymous or terrible. As a group they're not consistent enough if we want to be more than a mid table team.
357 Posted 22/01/2020 at 15:05:32
Point being - we've tried shopping at Waitrose (overpaid for average products), and we've been successful in the past shopping at Lidl (bargains for the same, if not better, products).
It's time we were more savvy in general in the transfer market, shop for the Lidl products and only go to Waitrose when we really need to.
358 Posted 22/01/2020 at 15:09:55
359 Posted 22/01/2020 at 15:12:30
360 Posted 22/01/2020 at 15:21:30
We'll see, if he's a â€˜total changer'.
A euro to uk adapter? We'll see.
Some of the comments on here slagging off the manager. Disgraceful.
He's on £11m a year and he's doing his best, so leave him alone.
361 Posted 22/01/2020 at 15:26:29
I'm not saying he's perfect or infallible. I am just weary of every manager we have going from "messiah" to "sack him" in about 5 games. There is an element of "it happens" in football. When Moyes was here, we came back and drew 4-4 with Utd. Fergie has won a ton of trophies by then so no one questioned his credentials.
362 Posted 22/01/2020 at 15:27:01
363 Posted 22/01/2020 at 15:28:53
And also Steve at #347, this was Schneiderlin's best performance since the spring of 2017 -- and you are correct that this is as much an indictment as a compliment. Having seen again what he is capable of only increases the frustration that he hasn't been playing like this all along. Where has it been for the past three years?
Jamie #344, some here have mentioned Pickford's save percentage as one of the lowest in the league. So is Pope's. Yes, he commands well in the air, but he gets down to low shots like a tree falling. There's a reason why all the big-club-transfer buzz that surrounded him several years ago has faded away. If the desired new standard for Everton signings is "is he a top 4 player?", the answer on Pope is no.
364 Posted 22/01/2020 at 15:29:07
365 Posted 22/01/2020 at 15:36:54
366 Posted 22/01/2020 at 15:38:33
367 Posted 22/01/2020 at 15:52:15
I think every club has a large section of their fans who think their Keeper is a liability.
It's such a precarious, fickle game, football.
Look at me and Ancelotti, I'll be in love if he beats them at Goodison in March.
If he doesn't though (inflict the RS's only defeat of the season) then he should be sacked instantly.
If we get another Goalie, we'll scrutinise and analyse and find his flaws pretty quickly, and there'll be another more solid, reliable, taller, less daft, mysterious Keeper out there (who we don't watch play 90 mins football ever) who we'll all be pining over like Nick Pope.
It'd be Nick Poop on TW inside 18 months at Everton.
368 Posted 22/01/2020 at 15:55:51
Dave @359, as much as I would have loved to be at game, I'd argue that the vantage point of multiple TV cameras and close-ups offer a much better overall view of the pitch. On the TV, Schneiderlin moved around quite well I thought. No, he doesn't run around with the energy of Gueye or even McCarthy, but he's never been that type of player so I don't expect that from him. In fact, I don't seem him as a box-to-box ball-winning type of player at all, in my eyes he's more of a supporting type holding midfielder. A bit of a quarterback type if you like.
On a different note, I just saw the school children's drawings of the Everton players. Pickford ROFL!!
369 Posted 22/01/2020 at 15:56:15
370 Posted 22/01/2020 at 16:46:25
Confidence runs through a player and a team and they can achieve a lot. If it doesn't then they achieve very little. I think we are getting much better over the last few weeks and will continue to. What happened last night... answers on a postcard please.
371 Posted 22/01/2020 at 16:48:15
I haven't read every post, but certain players are being blamed for last night's defeat as though they were deliberately intent on presenting Newcastle with their goal-scoring efforts. From my seat in the Park End, it was difficult to see exactly what happened, I will have a better take on it after I watch 'Match of the Day' this evening.
I believe that there were a number of reasons that contributed to the defeat and the loss of two points, the mistakes that I have alluded to, plus the substitutions of two of the most influential players, Kean and Bernard, who, with the assistance of Calvert Lewin, led the Newcastle defence a merry dance.
I reach this decision with the benefit of hindsight, although I was surprised at the time, but apparently like Carlo Ancelotti, I did not anticipate the effect the substitutions would have. I feel that some have condensed last night's game into the additional time, ignoring the performance of most of the previous 90 minutes.
I also find it difficult to believe that some supporters with years of experience, do not appreciate that anything can happen in a game of football. That's the 'Nature of the Beast'. Some have expressed anger, embarrassment, and, in some cases, the 'shame' of being an Evertonian. I have long since left the anger phase, and have never been embarrassed or ashamed, in fact approaching the age of 82, I retain my pride in being an Evertonian. My emotion now goes no further than extreme disappointment, we as football supporters have no option but to accept what the 'Football Gods' bestow on us.
372 Posted 22/01/2020 at 16:52:34
373 Posted 22/01/2020 at 17:04:18
374 Posted 22/01/2020 at 17:08:15
433 games 383-goals 60 league goals in one season 37-hat-tricks 2-league-titles 1-fa-cup William Ralph “Dixieâ€ Dean the greatest ever Everton player was born on this day in 1907
Believe it or not even Shearer had no idea whatsoever of that amount of hat-tricks - embarrassingly he thought his own 11 was the most!!!!!!! Aguero now has 12 - LONG, LONG WAY TO GO
375 Posted 22/01/2020 at 17:12:33
You've been around twice as long as me but I've also thankfully passed the anger stage. It is football. Luckily it was a fairly meaningless game. We will get over it just as Munich did when they thought they'd won the European cup and two minutes later were losers.
376 Posted 22/01/2020 at 17:36:13
377 Posted 22/01/2020 at 17:38:37
Best to just take the positives.
Moise Kean only 19 scored his first goal. Hopefully a lot more to come.
DCL only 22 scored once again and a cool finish as well.
Mason Holgate only 23 played really well again.
Iwobi is only 23. Richarlison is only 22, Mina 25, Pickford 25, Gbamin 24. I would mention Davies but I don't think he has a future at Everton. The fact we have the nucleus of a good young side. No doubt about it we need additions but I think we're on the right road. Put the last two minutes to one side and we played well. Just have to cut out the errors and that includes the manager. Stop taking off forwards for defenders and crap like Niasse. I'd sooner see a youngster on than him. It just gives the initiative to the opposition.
378 Posted 22/01/2020 at 17:53:22
379 Posted 22/01/2020 at 17:56:01
Steven Fry once said (maybe not original - was it Liverpool's own George Melly?) "I like Sainsbury's - it keeps the riff raff out of Waitrose".
380 Posted 22/01/2020 at 18:09:45
I think we have to have patience and see what CA can do in the market and also with our players - DCL and Schneiderlein show signs of improvement for example.
I agree cashing in on Pickford makes sense while he is England's goalie and getting in someone more stable and reliable. Tom Davies I think doesn't have the physical or mental attributes to play at this level. Shame, really.
381 Posted 22/01/2020 at 18:18:20
382 Posted 22/01/2020 at 18:45:44
383 Posted 22/01/2020 at 19:08:27
And that comes from someone who has continually backed him to the hilt.
He was involved in making basic mistakes for their two goals.
First goal. He made a mistake trying to play out from the back, near his own corner flag. He exchanged passes with Digne but his final pass was on Digne right foot. The basic mistake was if he played it on his left foot the ball would have been played where it should go, up the line. Result: Corner and goal.
Second goal. He tries to take the man on by knocking it past him and out pacing the defender. Defender deals with him easily by out strengthing him and by superior pace.
Defender can only go back to the keeper. Tom jumps on his back, giving the free kick away. When the free kick comes into the box Tom, who you would think would want to rectify his mistake, jumped under the ball. Result: goal.
I reckon it would be good for Tom to have the rest of the season out on loan.
384 Posted 22/01/2020 at 19:25:23
385 Posted 22/01/2020 at 19:28:33
Davies gave a ball to Digne who fucked it up Royally and conceded a corner - Lets blame Davies.
Davies first contribution was a surging run which resulted in a free kick outside the box. Once again Digne Royally fucked it up - Lets blame Davies.
Davies gives away a free kick near the half way line. Its central which makes it quite possibly the easiest free kick to defend against. We've got 11 men back who all show zero desire - Lets blame Davies
The ball is in the air so long you could have strolled down from the top balcony and still had time to clear it, but none of the eleven we had plonked in and around our area managed it - Lets blame Davies.
Ancelotti has the team so riddled with uncertainty after reintroducing the cursed Zonal Marking. Every fucker knew where the ball was going to end up before the corner was taken - Lets blame Davies.
Ancelotti had already insulted the intelligence of all present by bring on a the least talented footballer the premiership has ever seen. Predictably he surrenders possession and the initiative by miscontrolling every fucking pass - Lets blame Davies.
Davies's critics claim he is lower league standard who should never wear the Everton shirt again, Ancelotti still put him on - Lets blame Davies
The names and abuse directed at this TWENTY ONE year having to learn his trade surrounded by ridiculously paid, cowardly, non contributing Gobshites makes me deeply ashamed of this club. What a fucking fan base we have
When Holgate tried bucking the trend by refusing to be a light house and insisting on playing football like it should be played. On the deck. These experts murdered him
When DCL had to play left and right and then up front on his own for two years while expensive, guileless, liberty taking, fuckwits stood thirty yards behind him knocking "get-after-that" hoofs into the corners and expecting.
him to do all their graft - These experts murdered him
Now its Toms turn. Sure he sometimes looses the ball, but he is surrounded by cowards whose sole purpose is to protect their passing stats, his determination to be positive and get forward is a breath of fresh air. As the junior in the team, he should be helped by seniors Like Siggy and slidingin, but he isn't They hide from him. . They fucking hide from him. Just as they hide from each other
I look forward to the day when Tom realises his potential. when, like the other two, he can consider himself established,
I would dearly love to see Tom, Mason and DCL stand in the center circle and raise a finger each to these incredibly poor judges. One beautiful poetic "what-the-fuck-do-you-know ?" three fingered Gesture
386 Posted 22/01/2020 at 19:53:39
I have just been informed that a friend of mine, an ex team-mate from our footballing days of 50 years ago. has passed away. A gentleman and fellow Evertonian, he will be greatly missed by all who knew him, it's at times like this that we should remember that football although a part of our lives, is [exactly that] a part of our lives.
387 Posted 22/01/2020 at 19:54:20
388 Posted 22/01/2020 at 20:02:44
You skip very lightly over Davies giving away the free kick -- a silly, pointless foul when he wasn't even challenging for the ball, just a pettish bump, and the only way Newcastle could possibly have gotten the ball down the pitch and earned a clear chance before the clock ran out. And an utterly needless exposure of our longtime weakness defending set pieces. If he just stops in his tracks, the game is over.
And of the "11 men back" who "could have strolled down from the top balcony and still had time to clear it", the closest of all, the one who didn't react immediately because he was busy pointing at people, the one who stumbled back and jumped and missed the ball completely, was Davies.
So yes, this "TWENTY ONE year" old veteran of well over 100 Prem, domestic cup and Europa appearances, considered mature and professional enough to wear the captain's armband on multiple occasions, fully deserves every word of blame he is getting. Not him alone, certainly (Carlo/Picks/Digne), but he's at the top of the list, and nobody else is a close second.
And yes, it's Ancelotti who sent him on, but that's kind of a circular argument -- are you saying Ancelotti made a mistake subbing him in because he's not good enough, or because the situation was wrong for him, or because somebody else should have gone on instead? Are Davies' mistakes Davies' fault, or are they Carlo's responsibility because he put him out there? Either way, both arguments seem to be saying the same thing about Davies: Not Good Enough.
389 Posted 22/01/2020 at 20:10:55
390 Posted 22/01/2020 at 20:16:48
391 Posted 22/01/2020 at 20:24:32
And ever since then I have agonized watching him work so hard and leave everything on the pitch and just... not... get... better. And I've tried so hard not to get frustrated seeing him make the same mistakes again and again. I'd have waved him off a year ago, but he was Tom Davies, the guy who scored "my" goal.
Yesterday was it for me. I just can't bend that far anymore. Maybe John G is right and a loan would salvage the player, but I'm not optimistic that will happen.
392 Posted 22/01/2020 at 20:34:01
393 Posted 22/01/2020 at 20:43:51
I get where you come from about Blues complaining about young talents who cone through academy or we pick up for a pittance. Undoubtedly some truth but I think you over egg it and I think people slag off anybody who they don't think good enough, perhaps many should give more slack to youngsters which as a fan base as a whole I don't think we do. I actually thinks it borne of frustration because we're more desperate for these people to do well than the other players who are simply mercenaries - even Mike Gaynes I can see so annoyed because as he says, he attended a game and he made him cry (presumably Man City game) / its all frustration.
For me, I'm v hard on Pickford / I'm 40 and only remember one great player for us being Big Nev who was and is my idol so I'm always hard on others that follow him! My son's only 10 and plays in goal and in hard on him already! I should lay off Pickford a bit who is young also.
In terms of yesterday, I must admit Davies did my head in a bit / just frustrated at him / I think that's a natural reaction the way the game unfolded. I do agree completely OTT to write him off / 5 or so managers (many without a clue) - but he's only 21 clearly talented, clearly loves the club and I've never seen him hide (unlike a lot of our shower)
As more senior poster mentioned above, only a game and we should all support the younger players in particular more and no doubt our experienced personnel in terms of players and management staff have been letting us down over the years more than our youngsters.
Best wishes to all Blues - hopefully things will get better!
394 Posted 22/01/2020 at 20:52:51
395 Posted 22/01/2020 at 21:28:23
396 Posted 22/01/2020 at 21:33:08
397 Posted 22/01/2020 at 21:33:35
I agree. We played very well for 89 minutes which is what the players need to focus on.
Bernard very visible but Schneiderlin also had a (surprisingly) good game. Great positioning, passing and interceptions, I thought he commanded the midfield yesterday! I do not understand how any knowledgeable footballfan can think otherwise.
398 Posted 22/01/2020 at 21:41:28
399 Posted 22/01/2020 at 21:50:50
400 Posted 22/01/2020 at 21:53:15
Condolences on the passing of your friend.
401 Posted 22/01/2020 at 21:53:35
" It seems that most on here see themselves as more knowledgeable and tactically aware than one of the most successful managers of all time."
Reading comments on here about various managers always makes me think of Statler and Waldorf in The Muppet Show heckling Kermit. They can heckle but there's a reason he's down there and they're just in the audience.
402 Posted 22/01/2020 at 22:00:56
403 Posted 22/01/2020 at 22:01:28
404 Posted 22/01/2020 at 22:06:36
405 Posted 22/01/2020 at 22:06:39
406 Posted 22/01/2020 at 22:07:38
407 Posted 22/01/2020 at 22:07:56
408 Posted 22/01/2020 at 22:13:34
It really does amaze me how some posters appear to, or think they know better than a top flight manager.
No one on here has ever managed at the top level and they never will TBH, the reason is, they don't possess the nouse or acumen to do so.
A bit like the majority of pundits on the telly, they point out all the faults of players and managers but have either failed at the job, or don't have the balls to go and take it on.
409 Posted 22/01/2020 at 22:14:30
410 Posted 22/01/2020 at 22:16:00
411 Posted 22/01/2020 at 22:29:14
412 Posted 22/01/2020 at 22:30:22
413 Posted 22/01/2020 at 22:41:10
Rendered those obnoxious fans silent.
414 Posted 22/01/2020 at 22:43:43
415 Posted 22/01/2020 at 22:44:49
416 Posted 22/01/2020 at 22:51:57
417 Posted 22/01/2020 at 23:02:21
"Strong, fit and organised will never go out of fashion"
He's right you know.
418 Posted 22/01/2020 at 23:28:56
He is not fast or strong or athletic and for a player who has played 100+ games, he tends to make bad decisions at important times. Probably not relevant, but he looks sloppy with his socks rolled down.
Perhaps ok as a squad player but not really good enough to start at this level, I think.
419 Posted 23/01/2020 at 05:13:29
You on the other hand have made a complete meal of it. Daft foul ? well yes, but I cant assure you that wasnt the reason we conceded.
Be very certain if he didnt make that challenge the first thing Newcastle would have done when they got it would have been to launch it anyway.
We didnt concede because of a daft foul near the half way line. We conceded because as a collective we have a pathetic inability to defend them. Every alehouse team in Liverpool could do better than that.
Every team commits fouls. and every single defensive players in our squad has committed fouls in a worse position than that. Mina, Digne and Schnieiderlin seem to be making a living out of it..
Instead of lambasting the short guy why are you not screaming at one of the taller guys for not moving their feet and dealing with that ball. It wass in the air that long anyone of them could have done it,
I hope I'm wrong, but I suspect we may not see Tom Davies for a while and all those who groaned when Schneirderlin was named ahead of him will be groaning on a regular basis. Do you think that will solve the problem ?
Its not the fact that TD is local which is making me so pissed at the hysterical outrage. Its the sheer stupidity of it. The embarrassing lack of judgement.
I don't care if people accuse me of being a know all. I'm telling you right now, that we will continue to concede in this way with or without Tom Davies.
We have 80m quids worth of defenders, playing for one of the highest earning managers in the history of the game and yet next time we concede a free kick or a corner, every Evertonian will be watching through his fingers. THAT is the problem.
Instead of hanging the twenty one year old out to dry, why are'nt you berating the experienced pro's for defending every dead ball situation on their heels ? Why are you telling everyone that Yerry Mina is the next greatest thing when every time he defends a free kick, he demonstrates the lateral movement of a fucking lighthouse ?
Why are you screaming that Tom Davies is the moron when when we have a manager persevering with a system which relies on a group of players who defend corners with all the desire and Movement of the the slugs on our patio ?
Tom Davies is twenty one. I dont care who hates that being brought up, .its an inescapable fact. I do know that the fuckwitted managers who have stunted his development, by asking him to play here, there and everywhere, have failed on one score They havent manage to make him Twenty two.
He will never be top, international, class. but basic logic would suggest that anybody who has made over one hundred premier league appearances by the time he is TWENTY ONE has a very good chance of making a living in this league. He is an asset who will be worth millions... Yet we have hoards of fans screaming for the club to get rid after a couple of mistakes.
And TOM DAVIES is the moron ?????
420 Posted 23/01/2020 at 06:19:50
If as a team we want to move to the next level then Tom is not the answer. Neither is Schniederlin or Delph but give me the choice on current form then Tom is not in the top 3 for a centre midfield spot. My opinion has nothing to do with Tom being “one of our ownâ€ but on pure ability.
i do not wish ill of him but he frustrates the shit out of me. He showed so much promise but unfortunately he looks to me at the moment that he is not going to fulfil that promise.
421 Posted 23/01/2020 at 07:28:10
I can't imagine anyone goes to the match intending to slag a player off just for the sake of it but I think the common consensus seems to be that Davies is willing but limited.
Will we concede goals when Davies is not in the team, yes we most likely will but that's not a reason to blindly say he wasn't a main factor for why we didn't pick 3 points up on Tuesday night.
422 Posted 23/01/2020 at 07:51:02
'Blaming Davies for missing a header that was 4ft above his and Holgates head is ridiculous. Digne was not in position. Holgate didn't stay marking his man...'
I will add that whilst it was poor defending all round, Holgate may have been more interested in pushing one of the Newcastle players in the back rather than concentrating on marking the guy coming round the back....which probably would have led to a penalty.
423 Posted 23/01/2020 at 09:19:15
The free kick is pivotal. Yes, Newcastle would have launched it anyway but not with ten players able to pick their positions in our box. There was less than a minute on the clock and giving away that free kick there was horrendous game management. As was Delph booting it up the pitch; surely we could have passed it around and back to Pickford to perform the same hoof and soak up another 10-20 seconds. Panic had set in.
As for the header; the only other player who is near it is Holgate who could have done more but Davies looks like he has it and is relatively uncontested; until it goes over him. Either he totally misjudged the flight or he should have communicated that he didn't have it. I've certainly seen worse mistakes go unpunished but it wasn't great.
Everyone makes mistakes and I can handle that. My bigger concern with Davies is I just don't see what he is going to bring to the team. With DCL it was clear to me that you had a fast, strong youngster who won alot of his headers and worked unbelievably hard for the team, his finishing was not great but hopefully that might improve with confidence. With Holgate there was clearly an elegant defender with good pace and great composure on the ball; I was worried about the mistakes and lapses of concentration but the raw materials were there.
With Tom Davies I don't really see the basic attributes to be a top class midfielder. He's not quick or especially strong. His touch and technique are decent but he's no Bernard or Gomes. His tackling is ok and he makes a decent amount of interceptions. His passing is a bit wayward though he is brave and mainly tries to move it forwards, I think he has decent vision. He certainly works hard and shows for the ball.
What sort of player would he be at his best? He's not quite quick or strong enough to be a destroyer, he's no Gueye or Fernandinho. He's not quite creative or skilled enough to be a 10, a De Bruyne or Mata type. He could maybe be a box to box player but again I'm not sure he quite has the athleticism to be a Wijnaldum or Doucore.
I think he certainly has it in him to become a Mark Noble or a James Ward Prowse but would that be good enough to merit a starting place in our midfield if we have genuine top 4/5 aspirations?
Maybe i'm being too harsh (fuelled still by the disappointment from tuesday) but I struggle and have struggled for a while to see what sort of player he is meant to become. Certainly there could be space for him as a squad player and perhaps that's enough' as you say yourself he will never become top class but could still be a useful asset. Tuesday was of course not all his fault though he should learn from his mistakes. As should Ancelotti!
424 Posted 23/01/2020 at 10:43:17
Having watched the goals a few times now I think Tom has been very unfairly victimised. A lot happened after he lost possession for the first goal and if we are blaming anyone it should be Pickford for not dealing with the corner.
Likewise the second goal- he gave away the free kick on the half way line and the entire team had chances to defend the free kick and get rid. Not down to him though he played his part, he certainly doesn't deserve criticism like he's had.
The same people are roasting him as did the same to DCL. “ Couldn't hit a cows arse with a banjoâ€/ “ championship player at bestâ€ were two of the phrases of wisdom coming from the armchair typists who so bravely poured vitriol on a young lad who was trying his heart out. Well DCL has proved them wrong. He will likely be capped by England shortly and far from being a championship player will be worth an absolute fortune on the transfer market.
Now I'm not saying Tom will be the same- I always said my piece re Dom as I saw a pot in him. I'm not sure about Tom and Sam does an excellent job of analysing his play above. He will make a decent career but whether he will be top class I'm not sure but it will help him if the bully boys lay off him and accept that shit happens and we have to take it on the chin and get on with it. I am as passionate as anyone about this club but no one died, no one fell critically ill- we were careless and dropped two points but hey, we go again at Watford and we have a manager who has the ability to sort us out but not overnight. It will take time and there will be plenty of bumps in the road whilst we get there.
425 Posted 23/01/2020 at 10:45:20
426 Posted 23/01/2020 at 10:49:25
Midfielders come in 2 categories, you have the dynamo who never stops running for 90 minutes and tackles everything that moves aka Gueye and Alan Ball ( bows in homage ).
Or you have the Pierlo type midfielder who isn't blessed with pace but can read the game superbly and can dictate the pace, direction and flow of the game.
Tom is neither of the above unfortunately.
427 Posted 23/01/2020 at 11:08:12
428 Posted 23/01/2020 at 13:23:43
I don't claim Tom Davies to be top draw. I actually say he is neither top or international class.
I would say you have pitched it about right when you put him in the Mark Noble bracket. . That's were we part company. Mark Noble would walk into our team. He may not be top class either, but he is a regular 6-7/10. Our midfielders often struggle to even register that they are on the pitch. They are cowards who hide.
I get that anyone who has a Ferrari and a Porche in his garage would be within his rights to turn down a VW Passat, but we have 5-6 clapped out Vauxhall Astra's in our midfield. Beggars cant be choosers.
Davies does not get into our side because he is a local boy ( an oft used and half witted argument raised by those oblivious to the lack of real alternatives) He gets in because the others are shite.
Tom Davies is quite simply braver than those around him. He will put his bollocks on the line rather than hide. He will look to win rather than settle for a draw. He may make the occasional mistake, but that doesn't set him apart from his Team mates. The disproportionate abuse he takes does that.
You claim you could see signs in DCL and Holgate. I say a blind man could see signs in DCL and Holgate. . but there were an awful lot of people on here who dismissed them every bit as readily as the Dismiss the still twenty one year old.
I may be being a little generous with Davies, but nowhere near as generous as those wanting to hang the Tuesdays lost victory on him are being to the other gutless frankies who have slipped quietly away form the scene of the crime - Again
429 Posted 23/01/2020 at 13:52:17
The "frankies" who've slipped away from the scene of the crime actually did ok on Tuesday. Schneiderlin played well and played some excellent passes. Delph did quite well too on the whole.
The thing is Davies didn't on Tuesday so naturally he's gonna come in for some stick!
It's a game by game thing isn't it?
Proof of that if ever it was needed was the Palace fans reaction to Tosun.
After his first start when he scored against City he was being lauded as the loan of the decade for them.
Come the second game when he missed a sitter and they're calling him a "fraud" and a poor man's Benteke.
It's the way of things. One shite game and the payer gets it in the neck. Several shite games and he'll get it constantly.
Our midfield in general (at the moment) is pretty shite and they're all gonna get it from time to time.
I agree that Tom is brave and tries things others don't have the bottle to do. Unfortunately his attempts often result in him losing the ball in dangerous places which put us under pressure.
That may improve in time but I don't think his lack of pace will and that's a big factor in him getting caught out too often IMO.
I know the others have their many faults but on Tuesday Tom's were more to the fore and they cost us.
Against Watford it 'll be somebody else's turn.
430 Posted 23/01/2020 at 14:25:30
431 Posted 23/01/2020 at 14:44:06
Sad to say it all went belly up and it seemed like a defeat but we all should be used to this from Everton.
They are so unreliable and inconsistent that even when they are ahead when the final whistle goes most of us say ''phew, thank God that's over''.
Onward and upward has to be the cry and Carlo has seen the flaws.
Still only one defeat in the last nine Prem. games (City) cannot be that bad so just perhaps things are slowly changing for the good and next season's hopes'
433 Posted 23/01/2020 at 15:04:23
Chris #430, I think you're right that he's likely to be shipped out -- doesn't seem like a Carlo kind of player. I believe he does bring energy and intensity, but you and others make a good point that it's generally considered his strongest attribute as a player -- and that's not enough to make him a quality footballer, even a Noble or a Ward-Prowse.
It occurred to me last night -- as I (again) couldn't sleep thinking about those last few minutes -- that I cannot recall a single man-of-the-match performance from him, ever. We always have MOtM debates on the Forum at the final whistle, but Tom's name never comes up.
434 Posted 23/01/2020 at 15:38:08
435 Posted 23/01/2020 at 18:06:47
Genuine question mate.
Who did you consider showed the character of a coward out of the players who played on Tuesday night?
436 Posted 23/01/2020 at 19:00:43
The only saving grace for this season has been seeing Holgate and DCL make complete toby jugs out of those shrewd judges who so savagely hammered them.
I cant wait for Tom Davies to do the same.
These people wouldnt recognise a footballer if he crashed his gold Bentley straight through into their living room, staggered out in a cloud of charlie and made a bee line for their missus.
Six different managers have selected him to play premier league football even though he has only just turned 21... but he's "never going to be a premier league player".
The shrewd judges have spoke Tom. You better retire lad.
437 Posted 23/01/2020 at 19:22:45
The problem though for Davies is that he has not made progress. It's hard to know what his natural position actually is and given that he plays in Midfield the attributes that are expected are seemingly lacking.
Comparing Davies to DCL and Holgate is interesting. DCL has played 100 games for Everton, Holgate around 50. The stats in terms of performances would rank Davies between the two, the difference though is that DCL and Holgate have shown measurable improvement. I don't think that you can say the same for Davies. You might be right, and I might be wrong and Davies may come good. Time will tell and only Ancelotti will really know if Davies has a future at Everton. It would be sound to see a Scouser making it and it would save Everton a lot of money in the long run.
438 Posted 23/01/2020 at 19:25:40
439 Posted 23/01/2020 at 19:33:24
440 Posted 23/01/2020 at 19:34:00
Peter Laing 12 months ago you wouldn't have said that about the other two so there's still time. With regards to Henderson his fitness and stamina was questioned when he first went there.
441 Posted 23/01/2020 at 19:38:00
442 Posted 23/01/2020 at 19:58:12
Both DCL and Holgate are older than Davies. like so many sportsman They are making huge strides as moving fro their early to mid twentys. This period is a crucial time in the development of these young men. When they were Toms age they were taking dogs abuse from people who insisted they were Championship at best.
The comments made and the abuse directed at this twenty one year old doesnt surprise me, but I've always known that one day I will walk away from this club and this would be the reason.
Not going anywhere until Tom Davies has shown the world who the real morons are though
443 Posted 23/01/2020 at 20:03:26
Davies might have played 80 games at this level, but he's played all his football in the engine room, asked to do numerous different jobs, and never in a settled side, which must be very unsettling in itself?
444 Posted 23/01/2020 at 20:18:45
445 Posted 23/01/2020 at 20:20:37
446 Posted 23/01/2020 at 20:26:37
447 Posted 23/01/2020 at 20:27:36
Darren, you'd cease to be an Everton fan because of comments about the players from people on TW?
448 Posted 23/01/2020 at 20:31:36
449 Posted 23/01/2020 at 20:31:40
Perhaps that was the chance for Carlo to let Dunc have his hour in the locked dressing room and give them a few home truths in his native tongue.
450 Posted 23/01/2020 at 20:43:57
Coleman. Mina. Keane. Digne. Shneiderlin, Sigurdsson, Gomes, Delph all earn more money. They are All older and have all given away more goals than Davies.. but hey
You keep battering away at the younger fella...Makes you look soooo Knowledgeable
That Pickfords a cracking goalie too ist he Len . .totally blameless for the Newcastle goals
451 Posted 23/01/2020 at 20:50:10
452 Posted 23/01/2020 at 21:04:51
I think Davies, will prove to have enough stamina, but he's chased and played for a lot of lost causes, during his Everton career so far, and playing the kid in a settled position, in a settled side, might be what both settles him down, and also hopefully brings him on?
453 Posted 23/01/2020 at 21:21:10
Another contradiction maybe, but although Everton have definitely got one of the most loyal fan bases in the country, (it's quite possible, they have the best) they have also got a lot of desperate supporters, supporters who have mostly only known despair, and are absolutely desperate for a bit of success, and when things go wrong, that desperation inside, rears it's angry head, and some little fucker is going to get the blame!
If Delph, would have been “calmerâ€ from the kick-off, this thread would probably have also been much calmer, but it's a team game football, and I'm sure that Ancellotti knows that good teams need leadership, because it's what keeps everyone calm!
454 Posted 23/01/2020 at 21:28:27
Your defense of Davies is admirable.
Would you agree with my assertion that Tom Davies can not continue exercising poor judgment, and needs to be held to a higher standard moving forward? All the while sticking behind the kid, but recognizing he simply has to change that portion of his game that hurts the team?
Genuinely curious. Cheers.
455 Posted 24/01/2020 at 00:33:47
If you're going to make daft statements do some homework.
456 Posted 24/01/2020 at 01:09:20
457 Posted 24/01/2020 at 14:26:17
He's mature for his age and was when a teen. He's courageous; always shows for the ball, fights for everything. He has an attackers instinct; turns up-field with the ball to run or look for a forward pass. As a bonus, a local lad, playing at Goodison for his boyhood Club. So I think it fair to add that young Tom "Gets the Club", has the "Everton DNA". Good stuff all round.
Yet, he's never going to be a first-rate big league player. Those saying so are projecting what they want to happen onto a player who's lacking in critical attributes, particularly for playing in the EPL.
What's glaringly obvious is that young Tom lacks foot quickness, is devoid of pace, and even lacks the quick, 2-3 meter burst to clear some space for himself to do something good with the ball. His passes are slow, his shot soft. He's not going to develop these attributes because they come with the physical gifts.
Gifts that DCL and Holgate possess, which is why they're developing on a upward trajectory and Tom (as dedicated a player as the other two, mind) hasn't developed at all. This is the fourth season with the First Team for all three of them. All three have been right there during the chaos of those seasons. Two improving, one not. Davies.
A good kid, he should continue making a nice living as a pro. But if we want the CL and better, which we all do, we'll need higher quality mid-fielders than Tom Davies.
458 Posted 24/01/2020 at 16:50:15
459 Posted 25/01/2020 at 14:15:32
2014 cannot be included in the last 5 years because it's not in that timeframe since it's 5.5 years.
In the last 5 years
He finished 3rd in a two horse with Real Madrid
Won the bundesliga in a year when Dortmund were still struggling after Klopp so no competition and did so with a diminished points tally. He was then sacked after a poor start to the following campaign. He did not win a cup in Germany, he won the community shield twice.
Took Napoli from a title challenging team to finishing 12 points worse in his first season before their collapse this year. They don't want him back after the mess he left them in, they just don't want Gattuso.
In the last 5 years all 3 teams were on a downward spiral and he was sacked accordingly
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