Ancelotti disappointed but pleased with overall display against Newcastle

Wednesday, 22 January, 2020 228comments  |  Jump to last

Carlo Ancelotti feels that Everton were harshly punished for their lack of focus in yesterday's match against Newcastle that yielded just one point despite a dominant display by the Blues at Goodison Park.

The home side were 2-0 up and cruising as the game entered the final minute of stoppage time having prevented the visitors from putting a single shot on target but poor defending of a corner allowed Florien Lejeune to pull one back.

60 seconds later after Fabian Delph had given the ball back to the Magpies from kick-off, Newcastle launched another set-piece into the box and after the ball pinged off the post and finally sat up for Lejeune, the Frenchman stabbed the loose ball over the line to earn a seemingly impossible draw.

That late collapse wiped out Moise Kean's first Everton goal and a calmly-taken strike from Dominic Calvert-Lewin and deprived the Toffees of two points that would have left them sitting in ninth place and just two points off fifth place.

Calvert-Lewin, one of the few to offer public contrition for the FA Cup defeat at Anfield earlier this month, laudably took to social media to apologise to the fans, saying:

“What happened last night can't and shouldn't happen after dominating the game like that, so apologies to the fans!! We take the positives and move on. Happy to be in double figures for the season.”

In front of the cameras after the game, Ancelotti was philosophical about the result, saying that he was pleased with the performance and that it can provide a platform from which to build over the remainder of the season.

“Sometimes in football that can happen, sometimes you have to accept this,” the Italian said. “The fact is we played really well. The result is not what we wanted but the performance can give us confidence for the next games.

“Until the first goal, no-one thought Newcastle could draw the game. We played really well, we deserved to win but we have to accept the result. We could stay more focused on set pieces, but the team played a fantastic game for 90 minutes. We are disappointed but we are pleased with the performance.

“I said to my players that sometimes it can happen. It is unusual to concede two goals in two minutes when the performance was at the top, in my opinion, and for this reason I look forward. If we are able to play like this, I think we will win most of our games.

“We had good balance, we tried to press forward. [Fabian] Delph and [Morgan] Schneiderlin did a fantastic job. I have nothing to say to my players because they did really well.

“We could stay more focussed in the final minutes but they are really little things. We were punished too much after that performance.”

Kean, meanwhile, turned in his best personal display since signing from Juventus and he acknowledged the crowd's enthusiastic reaction and the patience they have shown in him during what has been a difficult transition from Serie A.

“It feels good [to score],” the young striker said “.It is a big motivation to do more work and to help the team.

“It was big support [from the supporters]. The fans trust in me and have had [a lot of] patience in me.

“I showed the coach in training that I'm ready and that if he chooses to put me on the pitch I will do my best.

“I am very happy. It is a good motivation to start to do very well, to play well for the team. Me and Dom play very well [together] and also with Richy. We just do very well for the team.”

 

Reader Comments (228)

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Phil Sammon
1 Posted 22/01/2020 at 22:44:48
He might get stick for this interview but I think he simply has to take the positives and move on. Morale at the club can’t be that high and I don’t think going ballistic at the players will be helpful. I’m sure Ancelotti will have made it clear that he wasn’t happy with the situation and that it can’t happen again.

Still, a very painful lesson that shouldn’t need teaching.

Mike Doyle
2 Posted 22/01/2020 at 22:45:25
Very diplomatic Carlo - and sensible as you need this group to collect another 10 + points to achieve safety.
Away from the reporters one hopes he’s having strong words with Mr Brands - a conversation that may include Questions like “you thought Selling James McCarthy and signing Fabian Delph was a good idea. Hmmm. run that by me again”

In other - more important- news. Sharpy has a new job (title) and Unsie’s U23s are probably having another sleepover somewhere.

Mike Oates
3 Posted 22/01/2020 at 22:46:36
It was a very good display with stand out performers, Kean, Delph, Schneiderlin, and Holgate. Dominated for 80 mins collapsed after 90mins.

Only disappointment was the performance of the two late subs, Niasse and Davies. Both were so bad, that we lost any momentum we had left, and together with Pickford doing his once a month kamikaze act, we threw the game away.

Whilst Kean had obviously run himself into the ground and needed substituting I saw no tiredness in either Bernard or Walcott that required them to be subbed, particularly for two guys who aren’t known for their ball retention skills

Mike Doyle
4 Posted 22/01/2020 at 22:54:10
Mike 3] Had Liverpool surrendered a 2-0 home lead to an injury-decimated Newcastle, would you expect Jurgen to be referring to a good display?
Last March we we 2-0 up at Newcastle and lost 3-2. Last night almost saw a repeat.
Philip McKeown
5 Posted 22/01/2020 at 22:54:52
What about your subs for the 2nd game running Carlo.
Yes, we all know our players have piss poor mental resilience but putting Davies on the wing is a hiding to nothing. We just about got away with it against Brighton but he did the same shite last night and it coupled with the above cost us.
Moise Kean was dead on his feet so I get the need for a change there, but you don't need to change personnel to keep it tight last 5 mins. The players on the pitch should hold their position, don't make forward runs or risky passes and manage the game properly. Well in Carlo Magnifico ffs 😠

We have suffered numerous kicks in the plums in recent years but that game will haunt me for a long time

Jamie Crowley
6 Posted 22/01/2020 at 23:31:39
Carlo has handled this perfectly. And he's spot on with his analysis. We played a very good game. We need to maintain our focus. That's the lesson.

We're still only 4 points off 5th, which frankly is amazing.

Also polishing the turd, it could be worse. You could be a Man U fan tonight. 😂

Derek Thomas
7 Posted 22/01/2020 at 23:40:56
He's disappointed and pleased? Well I was pleased and disappointed.

Pleased we played reasonably well, pleased DCL scored again...I always said he would improve (oh yes I did).

But disappointed that Ancelotti, after how many games? 8, 9, 10? still has faith that the sows ears he has to work with, will turn out silk purse levels of nouse and application.

You might be able to get away with it with Top Teams and/or in Europe. But the Premier League is a different beast and he's no stranger to the vagaries of it.

Sometimes teams in The Premier League - unlike Europe (?) don't know, or forget 'their place'.
Didn't we get him the sack when he played us?

The game didn't need 'seeing out'. We had no game for 10 days, no legs to save.

Newcastle brought on defender to keep it respectable...we all know the rest.

And...continuing the tradition of decades, in keeping with us just being the sporting arm of EitC, we let a guy who's never scored a Premier League goal in his life get two.

Carlo, by all means keep it nice in the after match comments - but be sure to kick the teacups, hairdryers and gell, the 7 grand sponge bags, about the dressing room in private.

And after, look in the mirror, raise an eyebrow at yourself...remind yourself the best way to 'see a game out' is Not to concede the initiative, but continue with your foot on their throat in their half of the field, aka, do exactly what you were doing for 80mins, only until the Final Whistle.

Jamie Crowley
8 Posted 22/01/2020 at 23:51:29
Derek -

Your last two paragraphs are the antithesis of Carlo Ancelotti. If that's what you're hoping for, you're going to be disappointed.

He won't get overly excited about anything.

He will continue to see games out.

Good luck Derek! You're gonna be frustrated.

Steve Brown
9 Posted 22/01/2020 at 00:04:43
The mentality of this team is really brittle and Carlo know that he has to choose his words carefully in public and private with them. He managed to get them playing with calm control for 85 mins this time, up from 75 against Brighton, before they folded in that embarrassing farce.

The pragmatic approach to closing games out might not suit everyone. But it is better than ending games with 5 attacking players on the field as Silva did on occasion this season.

Danny O'Neill
10 Posted 22/01/2020 at 00:09:25
Got off a flight from New York just after 8pm last night. In the taxi home, was pleased to see we went 2 - 0 up. Got home and couldn't get onto ToffeeWeb. Meltdown suspected so I assumed the worse.

Only Everton and on this occasion we have out-Everton'd ourselves (if that is even a phrase)!!

I didn't see the match live and therefore couldn't comment at the time, but having now calmed down, viewed the highlights & read the reports, I can at least put this into context in my own head. Carlo is right in his analysis in the longer term bigger scheme of things. We may hate the result (I do), but the performance (less the last 2 minutes), was good and bodes well moving forward.

We have an exciting forward line of Kean, DCL & Richarlison with the likes of Bernard in support. We have a midfield that has been deprived of Gomez & Gbarmin for long periods of this season. No excuses but like other clubs, we are playing a patched up team most weeks.... how come Liverpool are seemingly injury-less of key players..... sorry, shouldn't be bitter!!

We have good full backs but the defence in general needs surgery. And the keeper; he may be England's number one, but he was at fault for both goals. Flaps at the first and is behind the line for the 2nd. Basics, but he's standing on the line and that second doesn't go in. I'm not comparing us to them, but Liverpool stepped up a level by addressing their centre back & goalkeeping issue. At our own current level, we have the makings of a good side if we do likewise.

Only 4 points off 5th but then so is every club from 14th up!! How bizarre and reflective of the standard of the self-proclaimed best league in the world (its not). Liverpool are different class (feel sick saying it but you can't deny). City are miles better than everyone else other than Liverpool. The rest are average.

That's a bit random & all over the place still a bit jet lagged but hopefully makes a least a bit of sense. I apologise in advance for my glass half full perspective.

Mike Gaynes
11 Posted 23/01/2020 at 00:20:37
Jamie #8, watching the ManUtd fans evacuate Old Trafford in the 78th minute today even faster than Floridians evacuate during a hurricane warning (albeit with less efficiency) was the first thing to bring a smile to my face since last night's catastrophe. If there's anything that can cheer me up, it's seeing ManUtd miserable.
Steve Barr
12 Posted 23/01/2020 at 00:57:06
These things happen to top clubs occasionally. Things like this happen to Everton on a regular basis.

That is why it is not acceptable.

Andy Crooks
13 Posted 23/01/2020 at 01:16:24
Mike, are you coming over soon? By the way Pickford is lamentable. Pick up Jamie in your car and collect me in Belfast. We"ll get a fry, collect the Abrahams, Pete, Rob, Keith, Brian, Derek,,John and the rest of the guys, and head to Finch Farm to confront the no marks who run our club. Darren, will catch us there along with Don.


Jerome Shields
14 Posted 23/01/2020 at 01:19:24
Ancelotti will be under no illusions now about Everton. They are capable with good coaching, but can let you down literally at the last minute. Some of the p!ayers can completely lose focus no matter how much they are coached and instructed. Most of them also lack a consistent level of performance game on game.

When you need them to bag points to progress up the table they will consistently fail after two results. Actually a draw in the third game is progress. Everton will finish mid table as usual, the pattern has not been broken yet and will continue with this squad of players.


Rob Young
15 Posted 23/01/2020 at 02:18:35
Jamie Crowley
16 Posted 23/01/2020 at 02:33:36
Mike G -

You do have to give Floridians props when it comes to relocating millions of people in a fairly organized fashion when the big baddies come rolling in. And yes, Man U isn't nearly as efficient. The wife was well pleased this evening. She said, "Oh look at that! Everton and Burnley are holding hands." I was like, "What?" She replied, "They're both on 30 points in the table."

I almost said, "Fuck off." Thankfully kept that in check.

Andy -

Laughed at that. Mike is like 3000 miles from me. Picking me up in his car would take a 45 hour drive. 😂
Love it.

Besides the above, Ancelotti has this team moving in the right direction in a very, very short period of time. Last night was a nightmare. It's going to get better.

Ed Prytherch
17 Posted 23/01/2020 at 03:29:30
Carletto cannot walk on water but he got a decent game out of Schneiderlin and that might be the next biggest thing. I agree with Jamie that we are headed in the right direction.
Anyone else who has watched Burnley lately think that Pickford + 10M for Pope would be good business?
Kenn Crawford
18 Posted 23/01/2020 at 05:15:36
Anyone who wants to get rid of Pickford have no idea about keepers, keepers improve wit age and experience our keeper is a good as anyone in the league give him time and as for Carlo everyone pull your horns in it’s early days
Danny O'Neill
19 Posted 23/01/2020 at 05:53:36
I don't disagree with the keeper thing Ken. Similarly, central defenders mature & peak later than midfielders, who themselves do so later than forwards. In general that is.

I think The BBC MotD team summed it up nicely. Pickford's main flaw is his tendency to have a rush of blood; he needs to calm down more than anything else.

Mike Gaynes
20 Posted 23/01/2020 at 05:57:39
Andy #13, that sounds like one hell of a road trip, mate!

Jamie #16, start packing. I'll pick up you and my other mate Terry White (Pete's lifelong friend), who lives pretty close to you in Florida. (Can you say carpool???) And yes, y'all do a very nice job of getting the hell out of the way of those yearly monstrosities that visit you.

Ed #17, want me to pick you up on the way? And you're right, getting a good game out of that putz qualifies Carlo as a certified miracle worker.

Jason Leung
21 Posted 23/01/2020 at 07:14:45
Niasse is a mess of a footballer..an absolute headless chicken..has got no idea whatsoever..he desperately needs to go..at least schneiderlin, walcott and co show signs of quality..but Niasse is just a terrible footballer..i believe bringing him on was what cost us!
Jim Bennings
22 Posted 23/01/2020 at 08:44:35
Every team is built upon a solid defensive foundation.

Klopp knew Liverpool needed a world class central defender and goalkeeper, thats what he signed Alisson and Van Dijk and since then they have been virtually impeccable.

It’s what got us 4th in 2005, we only scored 45 goals that season but the calmness of Nigel Martyn in goal brought about a priceless defensive solidarity, Martyn was a world class goalkeeper but his assured calmness was the biggest factor.

If only we had such a presence as Martyn now, I’ve never seen an Everton keeper applauded off the pitch after a 0-0 draw at Anfield, he was that good!

Pickford will never bring stability to an already at times unstable defence.

You can’t have defenders playing in front of someone buzzing about like a bee in bottle not knowing if he’s coming or going, punching or catching, running awol or staying static.

Pickford makes some great saves but then so did Richard Wright, Thomas Myhre, Tim Howard.

A keeper is judged in key moments and how he deals with things under pressure like Tuesday night, it’s not the first time he’s been found wanting and over the last 18 months it’s becoming more and more frequent, not glaring errors as such, but decisive ones.

Martin Berry
23 Posted 23/01/2020 at 08:51:07
Calm Carlo the voice of reason, so pleased we have him and I bet millions of Utd fans are thinking right now why didn't we get him instead of Everton
Kenny Smith
24 Posted 23/01/2020 at 09:09:36
This needs putting in perspective. 2 months ago we were heading for a proper relegation scrap. With the same players we’re not safe but in a considerably better position. A win on Tuesday would of put us 8th and 2 points off United in 5th.
This is a weird season with everyone bar ‘them’ losing points to everyone else. There’s a long way to go and a 5th place finish is not beyond us.
Kenny Smith
25 Posted 23/01/2020 at 09:09:36
This needs putting in perspective. 2 months ago we were heading for a proper relegation scrap. With the same players we’re not safe but in a considerably better position. A win on Tuesday would of put us 8th and 2 points off United in 5th.
This is a weird season with everyone bar ‘them’ losing points to everyone else. There’s a long way to go and a 5th place finish is not beyond us.
Phil Lewis
26 Posted 23/01/2020 at 09:10:38
Kenn#18
I may know a little about goalkeepers, having witnessed in the flesh, Banks, Shilton, Jennings, West, Clemence, Southall, Schmeichel, Cech, and more recently Allison, to name but a few. Masters of their craft. Goalkeepers who have commanded not just their goal-line, but their entire penalty box. Men who inspire their defence with consistent confident displays. Frankly, Pickford is not in the same league as the above mentioned. Furthermore, he never will be. His temperament is error prone.
I don't expect we will sign a superstar keeper any time soon. I would settle for someone who simply has a consistent command of the basic art of goalkeeping right now.
Chris Mason
27 Posted 23/01/2020 at 09:11:51
Jim -spot on.
Jonathan Tasker
28 Posted 23/01/2020 at 09:18:10
In the motd interview last night Carlo, talking of the draw, said there are some things you can’t control.
That’s total bullshit.
The goals at the end were inextricably linked to his crazy substitutions.
He’s being paid a fortune to get results and drawing against Newcastle at home is nowhere near good enough.
As I said immediately on his appointment he is the wrong man for the job.
Karl Meighan
29 Posted 23/01/2020 at 09:20:37
How many leads and last minute goals conceded now is this? It just adds upto those players cannot be trusted and are unprofessional. They have had 4 the sack, stick with them for a long period and you will go the same way Carlo.

No tactics are needed against this Everton team, just put the ball in the box and put decent crosses in and they collapse.

Mike Keating
30 Posted 23/01/2020 at 09:32:38
As Colin Glasser said on a previous thread;
“More than being pissed off with our three hopeless subs I’m more pissed off with Ancellotti for making them. They were unnecessary and they were wrong. We were coasting and he disrupted our rhythm for no reason at all.
It’s been 15 years since Istanbul, Carlo. I thought you’d learnt your lesson.”
Spot on!
Joe McMahon
31 Posted 23/01/2020 at 09:34:27
Jim @22 very good points in your post. Martyn was magnificent and yes up there with the best. I personally feel that Pickford is a step down from Tim Howard. Tim wasn't the best keeper we've ever had but he wasn't the worst. Nick Pope would be available at the right price, but sadly we paid 30 million (I think) for Pickford.
Bill Fairfield
32 Posted 23/01/2020 at 09:39:13
Lots of positives v Newcastle like the manager said.We move on and improve further
Clive Rogers
33 Posted 23/01/2020 at 10:15:56
When you are 2 - 0 up and just want to keep possession, the last footballer on the planet you want to bring on is Niasse. He showed that he can’t control the ball or run with it. Davies was little better. These substitutions cost us the game. Otherwise the first 92 minutes were our best performance of the season in terms of passing the ball. Ancelotti is the right man.
Bill Fairfield
34 Posted 23/01/2020 at 10:24:04
Pickford is still only young for a goalkeeper (25) and has plenty of time to improve. Seem to remember a 25 year old Neville Southall going to Port Vale on loan and look how he eventually turned out
Ray Roche
35 Posted 23/01/2020 at 10:24:33
I think someone on ToffeeWeb mentioned that we should go in for Pope before Chelsea sign him. What? Chelsea? To replace Arrizabalaga, the World's most expensive keeper on £190k a week? Can't see them replacing him, even though he's not a great keeper. Arrizabalaga is no better that T Rex.
Carl Manning
36 Posted 23/01/2020 at 10:26:56
The game does need to be put into perspective. The team performance was good. What it has shown again is that we don’t have players that can last out 95 mins. We don’t have players in the defensive half who can stay alert or concentrated for the entirety of the game.

I would know put defensive re I for cements this Jan ahead of midfield. The one area Carlo does seem to be improving the longer he has on the training pitch is midfield. The guys were looking forward and on the turn when receiving the ball tuesday. This was to be expected with him having been a top class midfielder himself.

It could always be worse! Moyes could have come “home” to us! Lucky west ham eh? To think some people think he’d do a better job than Carlo!

Jimmy Hogan
37 Posted 23/01/2020 at 10:27:29
I finally saw the highlights of the game on MOTD. For their equaliser, Pickford looked like a complete nutter in a mad panic. Fizzing around the box (and even behind the goal line) like the Duracall Bunny, no purpose at all to what he was doing. Upshot, they scored.
Derek Thomas
38 Posted 23/01/2020 at 10:28:10
Jamie @ 8; thats my whole point, you might be able to get away with it with a good team...but we aren't a good team - yet. That's his job to make us a good team.

Don't try to superimpose good team / silk purse methods on to pigs ear / poor teams. It wont work, they can't manage it, it is, as yet, beyond them.

Dean Johnson
39 Posted 23/01/2020 at 10:33:23
Seriously guys, stop defending him.

Pickford out.

There is only one constant to all this shite and that is Pickford. Same with England, you think we're doing alright and Pickford fucks up

Send him back to his relegation with Sunderland.

Franny Porter
40 Posted 23/01/2020 at 10:34:17
I refuse to have a pop at CA at the moment, he has us relatively unbeaten and is getting much better performances from a fair few players, notably, the strikers.

What we need to remember is, out of that starting eleven, I would say four of them Id keep, Holgate, Bernard, DCL and Kean.

The team is overflowing with shite and until he can do a bit of dealing in the transfer market he's managing the previous incumbents mess.

Carl Manning
41 Posted 23/01/2020 at 10:38:30
In regards to Pickford, is it me or does he look a lot. Enter for England? He looks calmer, more assured and you never seem to see him go full crazy! Surely this can only be down to confidence in the played in front of him? His kicking and passing for England is also a big step up on what it is for us!

He is England’s number one and still young. He cost £30m but we would still make a nice profit on him should the management team decide to move him on. His stock is high! But like most posters have said, who would we replace him with? Every keeper this season is having problems. Kepa is bottom of the league for save % and he is the worlds most expensive. Pope, Henderson, ramsdale, would all cost a fortune and are they really an upgrade? I wouldn’t want to risk selling Pickford for Carlo to bring in a continental keeper who hasn’t experienced anything like the premier league before.

Jay Wood
[BRZ]

42 Posted 23/01/2020 at 10:47:33
Carl @ 36.

Absolutely nothing to do with the topics of the thread, but I just loved how predictive text messes with you attempt to write (presumably!) 'reinforcement' in the following:

"I would now put defensive re I for cements this Jan ahead of midfield."

That's a corker!

Carl Manning
43 Posted 23/01/2020 at 11:05:33
I’m sure I proof read everything also jay hahahahha although a big wall of cement In midfield could work!
Joe McMahon
44 Posted 23/01/2020 at 11:12:02
Ray @ 35, it's been mentioned on talksport. Doesn't mean it will happen though.
Bob Parrington
45 Posted 23/01/2020 at 11:22:37
Carlo! Yes. Voice of reason. Good things came out of the performance(s) in this game! Just shit the ridiculous finish!
2 points thrown away over 2 minutes!

On the other hand, Go for it. I'm sure we see really positive beginnings for the first time in a few years! Even Schneids looked somewhat decent. Good to see young Kean score. Bernard was classic.

Brent Stephens
46 Posted 23/01/2020 at 11:24:34
Too much cement in a few boots the other night, Jay, making heading the ball difficult at the end.
Tony McNulty
47 Posted 23/01/2020 at 11:29:08
Can anyone enlighten me as to what Bobby Brown Shoes ever saw in Niasse?

None of our other managers since (whether interim or semi-permanent) seem to have seen anything at all in this man (although our last manager did take him to Hull on loan, I believe).

The only strength I could possibly see is his willingness - he never seems to give up. But other than that, what ever possessed someone to pay £13 million? And he was even injured when he arrived wasn't he?

Happy to be enlightened by the School of Enlightenment which is TW.

There is quite a bit of competition, but he must rank as one of the worst deals we have ever made, of Kroldrupesque proportions.

Bob Parrington
48 Posted 23/01/2020 at 11:29:49
Carl@36. Good points. Currently Pickford isn't a Southall. He has a number of flaws. His distribution has been pretty awful lately. One point on which I defend him was the NCU equaliser. His prior movement had taken him in to the net area and clearly he didn't have time to recover.

But . he needs a really excellent GK coach to calm him down and rapidly mature his "Karma".

Bob Parrington
49 Posted 23/01/2020 at 11:33:25
Tony @47. I think the answer is "Effort". Clumsy elfin' effort. Bad judgement by Bobby B S. for this standard of the game. Championship at best. He must accept an offer to go down a league or overseas.
Michael Denson
50 Posted 23/01/2020 at 11:49:06
Fully agree with Bob@48 I think Pickford is being very harshly done to with regards to the equaliser on Wed. If you watch and analyse he correctly has to cover his near post when the shot is smashed off it then in pinball craziness that follows he has to charge across goal to anticipate the shot that DCL blocks, he has to dive and the trajectory naturally takes him into back of goal with so many bodies around. It ends up looking silly on freeze frame but don't think many other keepers (with alleged nutter streaks or not) would have ended up in a different position.

As for his distribution I think he is also harshly done to. The majority of his "shanks" out of play (which tend to be out of play in other end of pitch away from danger) come after awful slow play at back where defenders abdicate responsibility and play back to him to put him under pressure. Given time on ball as he gets for England his clearances are still as good as anyone round. I reckon plenty of our previous keepers and other English keepers around (including Pope) who with the fierce backpasses Pickford deals with in the width of our goalposts from our kamikaze defenders would result in some calamitous comical goals given away rather than moaning that he hits it direct out of play in opposition half. Gary Neville always talked about how he learned never to pass it back within width of goals after the Robinson Croatia disaster and I would urge anybody to analyse how often our defenders completely ignore that advice (probably more by accident than design admittedly!).

As for anyone else advocating Pope as better than him yes he made an eye catching penalty save vs Leicester other day but the Leicester goal was very saveable but he was unable to get his lanky frame down in time and he has been caught out like this a number of times this season giving goals away that plenty of other keepers (including Pickford) would save with feet.

Think the true competition for England going forward will be Henderson and Id have no qualms if we also made that replacement in the Summer at a profit

Ray Roche
51 Posted 23/01/2020 at 11:51:39
JOE@44

Sounds like some journo from the Daily Star has made it up and everyone else thinks that they should also mention it...just in case. How/would that be affected by FFP? He's on a reported £190k a week and cost nearly £80m, Pope would cost a fair bit now with all the publicity this is getting, would Chelsea be able to afford it?

Christine Foster
52 Posted 23/01/2020 at 12:01:33
Somewhere along the line we have to stop the wholesale roundabout of criticism of players, tactics or managers and realise this is what we have to work with. If you read this and other articles this we have players and managers for the chop, we would be 100 m in debt..wait..
We are were we are, frustrated with a disjointed team, some players needing to be moved on and others brought in. The ideas of other managers and poor buys have left us with a legacy of frustration. There is a nucleus of players to work with, a few others will have to step up or fall by the wayside. We have a world class manager not a silver bullet or a magic wand. But we have to believe that somewhere along this pot holed existance we will benefit. We are at this very moment a mid table team with ambition, with a world class manager and with money. There is hope and pragmatism in abundance..
Ray Robinson
53 Posted 23/01/2020 at 12:10:13
Michael #50, what a beacon of common sense! Totally agree apart from the fact that Henderson might be a good replacement. That bit I'm still unsure about. Pope is too lanky to get down to shots near to his body and resorts to using his feet too often. Fine if you have to do it like Pat Jennings used to do but his use of the legs to make a save is excessive. Agree his distribution is worse than Pickford's who goes too wide sometimes beasuse he's given no alternative by the back pass. Pope is nowhere near as good as some people make out. Reminds me of Fraser Forster. Good with high balls but poor with ground shots near the body. It's swings and roundabouts but give me Jordan over Pope any day.
Simon Smith
54 Posted 23/01/2020 at 12:10:19
I’m sorry but to be 2-0 up at home in the 93rd minute and not win, is completely inexcusable. An absolute farce of a result, which I can’t help but think will have a knock on effect!
We are not blessed with “pull your sleeves up” type of guys.
I really hope Carlo gave them a bollocking behind closed doors!
Michael Denson
55 Posted 23/01/2020 at 12:24:25
@Ray 53 yes it is early days on Henderson I agree but see no obvious flaws in his game like Pope and I have fancied for a long time that a very good Euros this Summer could see Pickford picked up by a top CL club for big money and I reckon with De Gea still in situ at Utd Henderson could be itching to get out and though wont be cheap we would get him at a profit from a potential Pickford sale and he would be as good a replacement as we could hope for (because I certainly don't think wed get better). But Pickford's reputation seems to be suffering nationally (unfairly to me - probably as a direct result of playing behind a very insecure defence all season) so it may be that the offers for him don't come which I am more than happy with.
Pickford has his faults of course notably crosses (not many keepers around for who that isn't a fault!) but I truly believe with him its a case of a lot of people wont truly appreciate what we have until he is gone (as per Lukaku). I always remember Big Nev talking about barometer of a top keeper is counting goals given away in a season on fingers of one hard - despite the calamities in front of him he has still managed to fit into this for me
Brian Wilkinson
56 Posted 23/01/2020 at 12:57:10
An alternate ending to the match, sorry lads just a bit of banter.

What if Niasse had gone to the corner flag instead of heading for goal, defender wins it, plays it to his goalkeeper who cannot pick it up so hoofs it upfield, landing perfect for Newcastle to score.

What if Digne booted the ball up field, finds a Newcastle player who hoofs it again in our danger area, resulting in a goal.

What if Davies had not fouled the player, taking one for the team, instead allowing the player to drift through ending up with a free kick close to our penalty area, again ending up with a goal.

Oh well too pissed out with those last few minutes of stupidity thought I would come up with something like the jfk magic bullet option.

All light hearted guys and lasses, before someone actually takes my I take serious.

Jim Bennings
57 Posted 23/01/2020 at 13:07:10
This is not a vendatta or anything personal against Pickford, people get very easily offended with the “too harsh on Pickford “ brigade coming out in force.

He is not the biggest problem, however he IS a big problem and has been for 18 months.

The inability to look safe defending from set pieces or crosses stems from Pickfords lack of presence and commanding stature in the goal, so this area of the pitch IS a big problem.

Liverpool and Man City both knew that there keepers were not top drawer so there’s no room for sentiments.

Liverpool moved on to a man mountain in Alisson and City brought in Ederson.

Anthony Newell
58 Posted 23/01/2020 at 13:14:06
Ray @ 47

The only logical explanation to Niasse was that Bobby decided to adopt a scorched earth policy on his way out

That negligent act should have been factored in when determining his pay off

Michael Denson
59 Posted 23/01/2020 at 13:24:08
@Jim 57 agree he does lack some presence and stature and certainly contributes to our unsafe set piece defending but do you think Alisson or Ederson would look as commanding behind our defence? Vast majority of set piece goals we concede come from defenders switching off/not doing their jobs properly in whatever marking system we are employing. I have no sentiment to Pickford I just don't see when I look around any other keepers any obtainable targets who would be an obvious improvement on him.
Ray Robinson
60 Posted 23/01/2020 at 14:00:37
Jim #57, I agree he does not have a commanding presence, as I see it, but unless we were to land an Alison or Ederson (how good is he with crosses by the way?), we'd just be trading an improvement in one area for a weakness in another. There are few goalies at the moment (available or otherwise) who are strong in every department. Pope certainly isn't one of them.
John Pierce
61 Posted 23/01/2020 at 14:12:43
The corner stone of goalkeeping is calmness, it’s your confidence and organizational gifts sort the defence out.

Pickford’s demeanor is frantic, often addled when he makes a decision.

He injects this erratic style into his back four. His need to ‘be involved’ refuses to pipe down.

He was at part of the litany of errors for the first goal. I personally think no blame for the second. He came for that cross and barely got a glove on it.

However that been said, he’s way down the list of problems to fix.

Paul Jones
62 Posted 23/01/2020 at 14:45:07
Pickford's decision making and kicking are erratic and he does seems to have many nervous ticks like Tim Howard. Makes me wonder whether has a similar underlying medical condition. In particular seems very prone to this when away fans are giving him stick. I assume this is why his worst performances come against Newcastle and Liverpool. Also had issues of the pitch over Christmas so maybe his employer should investigate whether he has a health or social condition that he needs help with managing.
Jerome Shields
63 Posted 23/01/2020 at 14:55:46
Glad that Moise Kean got a goal and a good goal at that. Confidence is everything for a young player.
Jimmy Hogan
64 Posted 23/01/2020 at 14:59:02
Paul #62, it hadn't occurred to me, but it would make sense if he suffered from Tourettes or similar.
Jerome Shields
66 Posted 23/01/2020 at 15:07:59
Paul#62

Many people have a underlying condition that they don't know about or undiagnosed. It is a difficulty one to address, if not diagnosed when young, and the results can be unpredictable.

Mike Gaynes
67 Posted 23/01/2020 at 15:15:52
John P #61, great post.

Jim #57, the problem is that our club is not going to spend £70 million to get an Ederson or Alisson or Kepa, a proven top-class keeper. For what we're willing and able to pay out, getting a keeper who's an improvement on Pickford would be a matter of sheer luck.

And as John P says, there are more urgent problems to fix. Lots of them.

Jamie Crowley
68 Posted 23/01/2020 at 15:25:21
Derek Thomas @38 -

thats my whole point, you might be able to get away with it with a good team...but we aren't a good team - yet.

There’s no reason those players, none at all, shouldn’t have been able to see out that game. None. The bar needs to be raised, not lowered. Those not meeting expectation need to be separated like wheat from chaff.

In short, don’t dumb it down, raise the bar. That’s the only way they’ll improve. Carlo has the right of it, for me.

Si Cooper
69 Posted 23/01/2020 at 15:26:33
Good to see some phlegmatism. Would be nice to be able to pass it on to the players.
One more in the corner of those thinking the criticism of Pickford is too harsh. On the first goal he makes a mistake by going for it and not succeeding but the rest of them shouldn’t get a free pass for doing statue impressions in the resulting chaos. For the second, I think he very unluckily loses balance / orientation a bit through colliding with the post when trying to cover the first shot.
He’s not perfect but neither is he the complete disaster that some apparently think and it is extremely difficult to identify a sure thing from what is generally available in that position.
Jamie Crowley
70 Posted 23/01/2020 at 15:42:31
I think Christine @ 52 has nailed it.

We have what we have, in the coach and players. Our financial situation most likely dictates that won't be changing much. We're also very, very injured presently - Gomes, Gbamin, Sigurddson, Richarlison, Iwobe, and probably 28 players I'm failing to remember.

We are very young, and many of these younger players are developing wonderfully, and turning into damn good footaballers.

We have a world class coach who will frustrate the bajeezuz out of supporters when one out of 4 to 5 games can't been "seen out", because, as I've been saying over and over, Carlo ain't changin' his ways.

Christine is correct. It really is time to stop slating the players and just get behind the project and the squad.

Won't be easy, because when I see Jordan kick it out of touch, or just rocket the ball straight to the other keeper, I will instinctively yell, "Fuckin' jackass!" But the likelihood many players (especially the young ones) will be moving anytime soon is very slim.

We'll wait for Theo, Schneids, Siggy, Oumar, Baines, Coleman, et al's contracts to expire and backfill with young kids and 1-2 big, quality signings. That's the roadmap, I'd bet my life on it. So start realizing it is what it is, and get behind the team and the players.

Kieran Kinsella
71 Posted 23/01/2020 at 15:51:30
Christine 52

To your point, last years Brands called Rich, DCL and Lookman the “envy of the EPL.” Many of us laughed. The first two are starting to show evidence he was onto something. Similar with Holgate. Granted three players is a pretty thin nucleus but they’re the right age so it’s something.

Dave Lynch
72 Posted 23/01/2020 at 16:02:51
You could see that Carlo is changing the mindset of the team.
For most of the game we where defending from the front, chasing down defenders giving them no time to settle on the ball.
That's something we have not done for the past couple of seasons.
It will come together, we just need to be patient.
Pat Kelly
73 Posted 23/01/2020 at 16:09:32
"I have nothing to say to my players because they did really well."

Grand so.

Mark Murphy
74 Posted 23/01/2020 at 16:10:39
Jamie @68
If we raise the bar we’re doomed mate - Pickford won’t stand a chance!!
Jamie Crowley
75 Posted 23/01/2020 at 16:20:51
Kieran -

You have Gordon, Davies if he can knock off the shenanigans, Kean, Iwobe, JJK, Holgate, and probably a few others I'm forgetting, coming through.

People can laugh all they want, and I said so on another thread (West Ham matchday), but I personally think we're a tidal wave brewing.

George Cumiskey
76 Posted 23/01/2020 at 16:28:42
Christine @ 52 if you stop the criticism of players, tactics and managers you might as well close down ToffeeWeb. Lol
John Pierce
77 Posted 23/01/2020 at 16:29:07
So if you want to get right into it his decision making is deficient every facet of his keeping.

When to go long, when to go short? Retain possession or keep it? Throw or kick?
Style of pass? This one pisses me right off. The little chip to full backs pinned to the side line. They have no chance of bringing it down. A couple of beauts in the Newcastle game.
Stay on your line or come for it?
Come out or stay at home for through balls.

I can comfortably point out repeated flaws here, many of which he ’gets away’ with. I’ve consistently critiqued this part of his game for some time. I’d even go as far to say technically he is as good as Ederson or even Allison, but will he match them for awareness, decision making and game management? For me no, light years behind.

So like many things with Everton, who do we get in? The option perhaps is a younger keeper with high decision making IQ, and let nature take its course. We cannot and will not spend on a finished article, it’s just not a priority. So you have to think a medium to longer term plan is needed to replace him.

Mike Gaynes
78 Posted 23/01/2020 at 16:54:34
Mark #74, hehehehehehe!
Kieran Kinsella
79 Posted 23/01/2020 at 16:59:05
Jamie I’ve hopes for the others you mention but they’re a little behind DCL and Holgate
Clive Rogers
80 Posted 23/01/2020 at 17:20:06
Anthony, #58, Bobby BS’s £11M pay off was written into his contract. When it was rumoured Spurs were interested (probably untrue), Billy boy gave him a pay increase and wrote it in his contract. Non negotiable.
Peter Hopkins
81 Posted 23/01/2020 at 18:05:31
Now the dust has settled,thinking back to the game,we played really,really well. We controlled the game up until that calamitous ending,it was a fluke,a pure fluke and sums our season up perfectly,I can see green shoots,there is optimism from me,some great young players and some great injured players to return(though not yet). We don’t want another scattergun transfer window like the last few. With Carlo in charge we are in good hands.
Bill Gall
82 Posted 23/01/2020 at 18:48:44
Well its 2 days since the shambles against Newcastle and hopefully we have all started to settle down to maybe above normal but not yet settled down to normal. Looking at the game again, for 92min we were completely in command, and that was one of the best performances of the season, and I am sure that Ancelotti and the rest of the coaches were as shocked as the supporters at the final couple of mins, and I doubt the words given out to the media about being pleased about the performance was far from the one given to the players..

We can all argue about the substitutions on how the manager used them but it happened and we cant change it. Looking at the bench we had a spare keeper. 3 defenders, Coleman, Keane and Baines, there was 1 forward Niassie, and 1midfielder Davies.
This was not really a strong bench unless you wanted to just change the system into a defensive set up that Ancelotti was accused of against Brighton.

With some of the injured players starting to return, Iwobi, Siggy and Rich I am wondering if Everton are going to bring in any new players in January, or just try to sell some and do any major recruiting in the summer.?

I am still of the opinion that Everton have to get rid of at least 4-6 players before they buy, unless they can get a strong midfielder at a reasonable price and not an inflated January price.

Rob Hooton
83 Posted 23/01/2020 at 19:23:34
I’m over the shock now, some great posts above too and some have had me in stitches!

We dominated the match and I don’t think the barcodes had a shot on target until they scored? We were coasting and there was only going to be one result - until there wasn’t! The defender they brought on to shore up their defence bangs in his first ever goals.

It really was a very good performance until the farce at the end, so I’m staying positive

Lee Gorre
84 Posted 23/01/2020 at 19:26:00
Surprised at the lack of criticism for Davies and his role in the debacle. Yet another bit of absolutely mindless play from him to concede that free kick when the game would have been done before any form of attack could have been mounted. He was also largely responsible for the point lost at Leicester. I'm not sure what the lad has in his locker that makes him capable at this level. I put a lot of the blame on him the other night. Also an experienced player like Delph at kick off at 2-1, could have just kicked it down the pitch and out of play, box them in at a defensive throw and game over. Most of these players have no brains and no balls.
Jim Bennings
85 Posted 23/01/2020 at 20:26:17
Lee

Davies is just another naive player we possess in the squad, we have a whole team of players that never seem to learn from mistakes made a few games earlier.

Our in-game management is horrendous and has been for about three or four years now, every player we sign just falls victim to it.

Digne is another player that springs to mind, for a international footballer how daft can you get when the clock is running down, he did a stupid foul at Millwall last year too which cost us in the last minute.

As I say, whole bunch of naive stupid players at this club, nothing will change until they learn, the sad thing is they never do learn, if our players were kids they would never get to leave kindergarten.

Jamie Crowley
86 Posted 23/01/2020 at 21:25:28
Lee @84 -

Surprised at the lack of criticism for Davies and his role in the debacle.

You either are being coy, or haven't read any posts on the other threads. Davies has been torn a new ass.

Robert Tressell
87 Posted 23/01/2020 at 21:34:51
Change of tack. Does Theo Walcott get enough stick on toffeweb? Discuss.
Neil Cremin
88 Posted 23/01/2020 at 21:35:43
I’m blue in the face commenting on our clown of a keeper. Since his first season he has been erratic only redeeming quality is he is a good shot stopper but that is only half the job.
Even last week against the West Ham he nearly fell over his goal line.
Enough said
Jamie Crowley
89 Posted 23/01/2020 at 21:39:28
Robert - no.

He must be moved on to improve the squad. He can't finish, he'll track back only when it's his fancy, disappears in games, etc.

He seems a very nice guy. But to improve, we need to move past him. He's one of the "older" players that we need to move on from. He, Siggy, Schneids, insert name I've forgotten.

I truly believe he got a get out of jail card when Allardyce signed him. More years of top notch living, hiding inside a middling Club was his thought process. While the younger kids, our manager, our DOF, and our owner are striving for success, he's winding the clock down.

Would love to have a beer with him. Would also love to see him lose the jersey and move to MLS.

Robert Tressell
90 Posted 23/01/2020 at 21:50:20
Neil. We've done Pickford. I'm trying to whip up some anti Theo sentiment. Good work Jamie C for staying with the programme.
Joe McMahon
91 Posted 23/01/2020 at 21:55:10
FFS they have won late again. The Everton team should be made to watch how they finish teams off late week after week.
Tony Abrahams
92 Posted 23/01/2020 at 21:56:08
Walcott gets away with murder, when you think about the stick some of our younger players get. The reason is simple, Theo, has got loads of ability but he doesn’t possess enough heart, or desire, which usually means he goes missing, when the going is anything less than smooth.
Dermot O'Brien
93 Posted 23/01/2020 at 21:56:52
Spot on Neil. Pickford is not the future. England no.1 me arse! Gives away possession too much either by throw-in or directly to opponents. Flaps at crosses a lot. No wonder our defence is shaky.
Pickford no.1? More like PickFlaps.
Colin Glassar
94 Posted 23/01/2020 at 21:58:03
It’s called game management, Joe. Something which our shower have probably never heard of.

I still trust Don Carlo to change this feeble mindset.

Tony Abrahams
95 Posted 23/01/2020 at 21:59:54
Nothing to do with the sitter that Wolves missed right at the end then Joe? They are having one of those incredible seasons, and that old adage about hard work, seems to be ringing true, for those horrible disciples of the devil.
Brent Stephens
96 Posted 23/01/2020 at 22:03:16
Hard work indeed, Tony. And organisation. I watched this in snatches and when whenever Wolves had the ball, rs had three lines (4-3-3) with the lines so close to each other. So tight, so compact, so organised.
Robert Tressell
97 Posted 23/01/2020 at 22:07:20
Im not convinced Theo does have loads of ability. He seems really fast but not very good at football. And I'm not even sure he's that fast now anyway. Came here as a 15 goal a season man. Now very little discernable difference to what we were getting from Aaron Lennon. He's like the Ghost of Christmas future for raheem sterling - the nightmare of what happens if your star fades, you end up at Everton and the movement around you looks like a game of subbuteo that someone left out.
Mike Doyle
98 Posted 23/01/2020 at 22:11:57
Liverpool come up with yet another late winner. Credit where it’s due.
Jim Bennings
99 Posted 23/01/2020 at 22:16:10
You can see the way the season has gone that they will probably clinch the title at Goodison.

City look far from convincing most weeks and you get the feeling as the resumption of the Champions League approaches City will switch attentions to that, meaning more league points lost.

Ain’t life great being an Evertonian?

Phil Greenough
100 Posted 23/01/2020 at 22:19:27
Ah well, at least Tranmere are through to the fourth round.
Chris Leyland
101 Posted 23/01/2020 at 22:25:11
I saw a league table today of each half of the premier league matches. Based on the first halves alone we are third. Based on the second halves alone, we are bottom of the league.

There is something very wrong with our ability to see out games.

Tony Abrahams
102 Posted 23/01/2020 at 22:26:06
Fair point about Walcott not having loads of ability Robert, but maybe if Theo showed that heart and desire which is very sadly lacking, then maybe his ability might just shine through?

I’d still sooner have Lennon, especially for the away games, because at least he gave 100% and was a lot braver than Theo, will ever be, but it just shows you how much money Everton, have wasted in wages and transfer fees, because if Walcott was an upgrade, then I’m yet to see it out on the pitch.

Neil Cremin
103 Posted 23/01/2020 at 22:27:34
Fair enough Robert.
Came to they thread late but had to have my usual rant of I told you so.
Another possibly unpopular observation. I really like Mason but I though he was poor on Tuesday particulary in the first half
Didnt bring the ball forward like in previous games and when he did a fair percentage of his passes were to the opposition.
Discuss
Tony Abrahams
104 Posted 23/01/2020 at 22:36:31
Brent, Liverpool are getting loads of plaudits, even off you it seems, but if you ruffle their feathers, I honestly don’t think they are nowhere near, as good as they are being made out to be.

Hard work covers a multitude of sins, especially when you have got a front three who will give any team problems, but with DCL improving, and Kean, hopefully going to turn into a player, then Richarlison, who is definitely going to improve, maybe we just need Everton now, Especially after reading how Jay Woods, really rates him?

Football changes quickly, so hopefully Carlo, and Marcel, are working on bringing in some quality additions right now!

Brent Stephens
105 Posted 23/01/2020 at 22:46:26
Tony that’s a bitter recognition from me of the way the other lot play. Fecking pains me to say it. But I just love your positivity and anticipation around Kean, Richarlison and DCL. I’m a glass half full guy and look forward to seeing those three together.
Graham Hammond
106 Posted 23/01/2020 at 22:52:00
Tony at 102. In fairness to Theo, I did see him sprint to try and get the ball back once on Tuesday night when he had lost it, it seems he can be committed when he chooses to be. When anyone else loses possession though or we simply do not have possession, he sadly isn't interested. That is not acceptable, that is not Everton, that is not what I want to see in the ten outfield lads pulling on a blue jersey. Desire is what we need, we do not have it and it needs to be addressed and addressed pronto.
Robert Tressell
107 Posted 23/01/2020 at 22:58:00
I think the reality is that we're stuck with a long list of players I don't really like because of their big contracts. However, for the first time in a while I feel like we have a manager who knows how to get a tune out of these players. And Moshiri has learned a lesson that buying wave after wave of replacements before you've shifted the dross causes us an FFP problem without really improving the team. I get excited by transfers but I'm quite pleased Ancelotti has been left to coach and brands lookd like hes waiting till summer
Kevin Prytherch
108 Posted 23/01/2020 at 23:20:22
Despite the negatives, we could have a decent team who are all yet to reach their peak.

Pickford (as irritating as he is) is only 25
Digne - 26
Kenny - 22
Holgate - 23
Mina - 25
Gbamin - 24
Gomes - 26
Richarlison - 22
Iwobi - 23
Calvert-Lewin - 22
Kean - 19

Then there’s he likes of Davies, Gordon, Gibson etc.

Maybe we just need to take the rough with the smooth and give them a bit of time to make the occasional mistake.

Tom Bowers
109 Posted 23/01/2020 at 23:20:42
Yes, I thought that Theo was really going to be an asset at Everton despite not playing regularly at Arsenal and in the first few games looked quite the part but he really has gone backwards and having to play deeper isn't his style but that's how the game is played these days.

I cannot see him being anything more than a bit part player when everyone is fit. He is just a yard slower than he used to be or is it because he's now up against a lot of younger defenders.

Moise was really looking more confident against the Barcodes and we all hope this is the sign he is going to develop.

Mike Gaynes
110 Posted 23/01/2020 at 23:43:49
Jim #85, Digne actually did that idiot act twice in the final minutes against Millwall, gave up both the second and third goals that way. I was infuriated.

Robert #97, in a study I read from the summer of 2018, Theo was listed as the fifth-fastest player in the world by top speed, behind Bale, Mbappe, Traore and some guy I never heard of. He built a career around that, on teams that could play him through behind defenders. He never did finish a high percentage of those chances, and now he doesn't get there anymore.

Chris #101, that is a fascinating statistic. I wonder how much it has to do with fitness. I always had the feeling that Silva did not focus on running the players in the summer when conditioning is built.

Neil #103, I had the opposite impression. I liked very much the way Holgate distributed out of the back. No muss, no fuss. He's not as good a passer as Mina, but he has improved immensely over the past year -- last year it was 50-50 whether his passes would go to somebody in our shirt or theirs.

And as a final note, can ya believe that Tranmere beat Watford? They're gonna be relegated to League 2 but now they have a 4th round FA Cup tie with... Utd.

Jamie Crowley
111 Posted 24/01/2020 at 00:23:04
They can beat Utd! Man U are awful! 😂

What do they say? C'mon You Rovers? I've no clue!

How many United fans are absolutely loathing the fact we have Carlo Ancelotti? Millions? Quite seriously, if Tranmere can beat Watford, right now they can beat United. Man U are in terrible form. They are a train wreck.

Bill Gienapp
112 Posted 24/01/2020 at 00:42:24
Looks like Watford's new manager bounce is wearing off just in time for our visit.
Simon Harrison
113 Posted 23/01/2020 at 01:56:59
I've managed to maintain a semblance of balance since Tues night. How I don't quite know yet?

I think that the club is currently where it is. We can't obviously bring new playing staff in this window, because of the losses and P&S rules. However, I feel if we could get Zouma (or similar) back on a short term loan, and a RMF player on loan, then I think we'd have just enough to kick on up the table.

Looking at the squad, and the way they went from happy/complacency, to rabbits in headlights in 102 seconds (PL timings) from 2-0 all smiles, to 2-2 and a feeling that a point was a defeat was unbelievable?! Christ, we could lay blame wherever you want, but the starting XI for 71 minutes were very good value, against a pot poor Toon team imho. I still don't know how we contrived to concede those 2 goals... anyhoo

I think Carletto must learn that this team takes time to adapt to changes, strategic I.e. training pitch ones and systems, to tactical, substitutions etc... I was OK with the Coleman for Kean sub (t a degree, the lad looked knackered), but why not bring Gordon on at that point and keep up the pressure and the shape?
when Bernard started to go, bring on Keane, put Mason to RB, push Sidibe up to RMF and put Gordon at LMF.

Keep one sub spare for the last 7+ET in case of injury... Hindsight, and differing views huh! Ain't they great! :D

Oh well, a decent point at W. Ham, and two dropped on Tues. Just means we have to tank Watford and CP now. With what the 10 days till the next game, let's see what Carletto, Davidido and Big Dunc can get out of the players.

Hopefully Beni will be back, and maybe a loan signing too?

Keep the faith Ladies and Gentlemen, I don't believe Carlett is here for Paydirt, I genuinely think he wants to prove his detractors wrong, and build a European powerhouse at Everton.

C'mon Bluenoses, get behind the team, and we need every point we can get now...

Simon Harrison
114 Posted 24/01/2020 at 02:02:49
Christine Foster @52, It appears we are of a like mind.

Lets stop kicking the buggers down, whilst the season is on, and try and build them up a bit. It might do wonders for their morale and confidence.

Remember this, there will still be many dawns, but one of them will be the best dawn in the clubs history!

The future is bright, the future is Blue.

Everton, a European powerhouse in 5-7 years... Baby steps for now, and heaps and Heaps of patience.

Simon Harrison
115 Posted 24/01/2020 at 02:14:17
Kevin @108, whilst I admire your optimism, out of your list (I'll copy here)

Pickford 25, Hope Eng do well at the Euros and we can find a buyer in summer who'll pay in the ball park of £40m

Digne - 26 Agreed, he needs some downtime thho, the lad looks shot at the minute.

Kenny - 22 Nope, if schalke want him, then take the money. Pure profit, and we shift his wage bill

Holgate - 23 Agreed Mr. Multi utility at the minute, I just wish he'd stop bloody ball watching like the toon first goal...

Mina - 25 If he hasn't improved in two seasons, move him on. Too many mistakes at his age, and sends too much time on his ar$e

Gbamin - 24, depends on the thigh injury and how he returns as a player

Gomes - 26 depends on the ankle injury and how he returns as a player

Richarlison - 22, Agreed, BUT if somebody offered us £75m plus, snap their hand off.

Iwobi - 23, get rid, no future at this club IF we're serious about European football

Calvert-Lewin - 22, agreed

Kean - 19, agreed

Davies - 22, has no future at this cub, he just isn't good enough, take £10-20m for him and run...

Then there’s he likes of Gordon, Gibson etc. (Feeney? Simms?)

Maybe we just need to take the rough with the smooth and give them a bit of time to make the occasional mistake. - I agree with this too.

Lots to look forward too as well for the rest of the season. Plus of course the summer window.

Martin Mason
116 Posted 24/01/2020 at 02:18:32
Christine@52 I agree with you completely. The criticism and negativity is irrational. We are in the position we are in and it is how we progress from here that is relevant not how we got here.
Simon Harrison
117 Posted 24/01/2020 at 02:38:53
I'm a bit late to the party re Pickford, but as I mentioned above (115), I hope he has a cracking euros and someone comes in at around the £40m mark for him.

He is just not showing any signs of maturity, despite being technically decent. Additionally, he has something against him, that nothing will change, his size. He is a couple of inches too short for the PL level and style of play.

Our Keeper situation is pretty fluid anyway, Steks is going to replace Alan Kelly as GK coach. which is a bit weird, as he can't get a game, and I presume he's been helping now; so why is JP so inconsistent?

Lossl hasn't had a game, and Virignia has gone into the U23s.

Here is the updated PL stats for keepers;

Link

Personally, I'd try and prise Dubravka away from NUFC, or if a deal with CP can done, maybe offer Tosun (and A.N. Other) plus cash for Guaita.

Lastly, a dream scenario... well for me at least;

After the Euros, England reach the SFs or better, and JP is outstanding. De Gea wants to go back to Spain, United offer £85m for JP, and we get Dean Henderson for £25m :D

Mind you, the Pickford situation probably won't be addressed till the summer of 21/22.

Mike Gaynes
118 Posted 24/01/2020 at 02:44:06
Simon, #115, Mina is already steadily improving. He was better in September than he was last spring, and he's better now than he was in the fall. Taking better angles, passing better, talking more at the back, committing no foolish fouls at all. Just really needs now to work on his heading -- he wins everything but doesn't know where it's going -- and to coordinate better with Holgate and Sidibe. I consider him a foundation piece to build around.

As for Pickford, fine, go ahead and sell. Who do you replace him with for the same £40m? If you want somebody better -- and proven -- you'll have to spend more than that. A lot more.

Simon Harrison
119 Posted 24/01/2020 at 02:54:38
Thanks for the reply Mike, just got to ask this though;

With Mina, I noticed for a while he'd do little hops from left to right foot, which he didn't do against NUFC, and he carried the ball up well, and passed well. Yet, Holgate with a weak left foot is asked to play LCB, whilst Mina plays RCB?

Surely, Mason, should come over to the right for two reasons;

If Delph, who has had 135 mins of good football, and one aberration is retained. It means that Sidibe can be allowed to attack more, and try and galvanise our RHS options and attacking/supporting play.

As Sidibe goes upfield, Mason shifts into a mid CB/RB position, Yerry goes central and Delph covers the CB/LB hole with Digne helping out.

Secondly, it allows Mina who seems more effective bringing the ball out, more options from a central position without exposing Sidibe's poor defensive positional play.

Re Pickford and his £40m see (117) I pretty much covered it there, plus a dream option (for me at least!)

By the way Mike, who are you tipping for Sunday?

Bobby Mallon
120 Posted 24/01/2020 at 03:49:30
I think a recall of Mo Besic back into our midfield would be a good idea
Andy Mead
121 Posted 24/01/2020 at 04:20:50
The players are human beings just like us. Some are brighter than others. I just think that obviously some are thick as pig shit. I don't think the collapse the other night was deliberate. Just think Delph and Davies are obviously not too bright. If the junior sides I have managed over the years did what they did in injury time, I would ensure it never happened again. As stated in an earlier post, why didn't Delph punt the ball directly into touch in the far corner for a throw? But week after week we see these players do the most stupid basic errors and no amount of manager changing is going to change it.
Andy Mead
122 Posted 24/01/2020 at 04:44:12
The players are human beings just like us. Some are brighter than others. I just think that obviously some are thick as pig shit. I don't think the collapse the other night was deliberate. Just think Delph and Davies are obviously not too bright. If the junior sides I have managed over the years did what they did in injury time, I would ensure it never happened again. As stated in an earlier post, why didn't Delph punt the ball directly into touch in the far corner for a throw? But week after week we see these players do the most stupid basic errors and no amount of manager changing is going to change it.
Jerome Shields
123 Posted 24/01/2020 at 05:09:57
Fitness to see out second halfs is a big problem for Everton.

Are they fit enough physically and mentally to see out the second half and are substitutions / tactics working ?These are the two areas of concern. I can't think of any others, other than the need for wholesale change in personnel. The latter ain't going to happen to sort out these problem in the short term.

Ancelotti is making progress in two areas ; recovering from the opposition scoring first and improving performance away from home.

I think that Ancelotti will be looking at fitness first. The hot weather break has been done away with during the Feb winter break by Ancelotti. The squad will be at Finch Farm. 'We have good facilites at Finch Farm, we do not need to travel round the world', according to Ancelotti. Ancelotti says that he hasn't had time to work with players, because of the football schedule. It will interesting to see his take on International breaks. Ancelotti expects a lot of hard work to be done at Finch Farm, which in my opinion will be a shock for many of those that work there.

The collapse against Newcastle will have been a concern to Ancelotti and he will be looking at individual players and their ability to carry out tactics. He has Everton going forward better against Newcastle than they where against West Ham, but now another problem, which has existed for some time, has raised his ugly head.

In the January transfer window, I don't expect any new players, maybe a few moving out if we are lucky. Ancelotti has enough to work on and bringing new players into the existing set up would be risky, since the above areas need addressing and a new player would not necessarily fix the above problems.

It's pretty obvious there are no quick fixes. The other factor is the Board and off field management are not up to speed, so it will take time for changes to work through and be made, if Moshiri is up to it.

There is something wrong with basics at Everton FC . New managers / players have masked over them. Even our new owners have masked them, thinking financial voodoo will work.

Ancelotti is working on the basics. You can only deal with what is in front of you.

Darren Hind
124 Posted 24/01/2020 at 05:18:11
Mike

"Mina's is already steadily improving"..."I consider him a foundation piece to build around"

Is that some kind of a joke ?

If Yerry Mina keeps improving at the rate he is now. He will be a complete carthorse by the time he is twenty eight.
The guy is head and shoulders above virtually every opponent, yet he will inevitably head the ball with his ear when defending corners (on the rare occasion he gets anywhere near it) and he will always squander chances which have been laid on a plate for him when attacking them.

If Mina puts one of those piss easy headers in against Newcastle we win the game. Nobody looks for scapegoats. . He doesnt of course and we don't, but hey lets talk about his "steady improvement". Lets ignore the fact that he takes a time out to lie down OFF the pitch watching Newcastle equalize. Let pretend that he is trying desperately hard to get back up and try to effect the game.
Lets pretend he played a huge part in the dramatic improvement we saw in the latter stages of last season. Lets pretend the new manager hasnt already sat him down twice.. and while we are at it lets pretend we didnt win both of those games.

Yerry Mina has been dining out on the goals he scored for Columbia since he got here, but many are running out of patience with him. He's missed more chances than anybody else in the team. He needs to REALLY start improving. He needs to start making his presence, at either end, worthwhile.

An increasing number of Evertonians have had a belly full of his performing seal routine

Mike Gaynes
125 Posted 24/01/2020 at 05:56:22
Darren #124, as usual you're just about completely wrong. If we were to vote on our player of the season thus far, Mina would be in the top 3 with Rich and DCL. Want to "pretend" something? Let's pretend you're not slagging off our best defender because of... wait for it... his poor goalscoring. Talk about off the deep end...

Simon #119, I'm all in for the Chiefs. Not this Sunday, though... it's next Sunday 2/2. As for Dubravka, I've never seen anything particularly dazzling from him, and he's 31 and has spent most of his life as a backup, so he wouldn't be my first thought as a potential Top 4 keeper. Henderson I haven't seen enough of to opine, but I'll file away your endorsement just in case and congratulate you if it happens.

Bobby #120, I can't think of a worse idea than to recall Mo Besic for anything besides driving the team bus. Besides, Sheffield wouldn't give him up. The 10 minutes per game he is averaging for them would be irreplaceable. (And yes, I'm kidding.) No thanks.

Phil Sammon
126 Posted 24/01/2020 at 06:42:22
Well Yerry Mina isn’t getting my vote. I think he’s been turd this season. No idea what we saw in him. I can’t believe he played for Barcelona.
Darren Hind
127 Posted 24/01/2020 at 07:48:50
"As Usual" Mike

I remember you being front and center whooping and clapping the Koeman/Walsh spending spree. I could not believe the dross you and so many others were getting so embarrassingly excited about. So I penned an article expressing my concern and disappointment.
The article was panned by the shrewdies. I especially remember your response where you tried to curry favour with all the other poor judges. You told me I had killed Tinkerbell because I had point blank refused to happy clap.
That particular window proved to be catastrophic for this club. we still haven't really recovered. It was probably the least productive spending spree by any club anywhere.

I knew back then that your idea of what constitutes a proper footballer was a million miles away from mine. I'm really kinda pleased about that. especially when I here you wax lyrical about some of the current crop
I cringe every time you plead for time every time somebody criticizes the latest Mina fuck up. Barcelona fell to the trap of being impressed by his "presence" They soon realized the had acquired a a guy who would not make a footballer as long as he had a hole is arse.

You whinge that a defender should not be judged for not scoring goals, but this guy - as his record shows - is desperately poor at keeping them out. Its pathetic that you think missing a proper genuine sitter is less of an offence to committing a foul on the half way line. Make no mistake Minas missed sitter had a far greater impact on us not winning the game than anything anybody else did.

Your attack on a youngster still learning the game was disgusting. It was also your latest attempt to cover up Minas shortcoming.
At the end of the day the youngster you claim has no place in top flight footballer will play an awful lot more top flight games that the international superstar you continue to fawn over.
You or any other Davies basher/Mina apologist can take that one to the bank

Si Miles
128 Posted 24/01/2020 at 07:55:23
I hoped Mina was going to be a solid defender with good leadership and tactical awareness, become our defensive lynch pin and help guide Holgate/Keanes development.
I was wrong.
I think he's weak for a man of his size and a average to poor header of the ball.
Im dubious that he will ever become a permanent fixture in our defence.
Jim Bennings
129 Posted 24/01/2020 at 08:13:12
The jury remains out on Mina.

He looks the part all 6’4 of him but too often looks like Bambi on ice and is caught out of position a lot.

One aspect of his game that really has been a disappointment so far is his lack of aerial threat for us from corners.

Watching him play for Colombia he’s a huge weapon for them and scores loads but every time he seems to win the header for us he heads the ball with the power of a pigeon.

Why do we sign players and then almost within a year they lose their strengths and we sit scratching our heads as to whether we actually signed the same player?

Watching old dvds seeing the likes of Davie Weir, Alan Stubbs, Sylvain Distin, Joseph Yobo, Joleon Lescott these guys were proper tough defenders, the likes of Lescott and Distin hugely athletic presences.

I still think we miss the hulking Kurt Zouma to be honest, I thought he was the best defender at the club last season, and I think he suited Everton more than Chelsea.

John Pierce
130 Posted 24/01/2020 at 08:26:40
Si, average with his head is right. In both boxes Mina often misjudges the flight, he is late on the ball, ripe for crap technique.

Most headed attempts in the league, no goals, ranks outside the top 40 for aerial duels won in centre backs.

Deffo needs to pull his finger out.

Peter Neilson
131 Posted 24/01/2020 at 08:27:26
I’m no great fan of Mina but regarding our corners he’s probably just caught by surprise when it gets over the first man.
James O'Connell
132 Posted 24/01/2020 at 09:09:10
Glad Kean got his first goal but until we have a proper captain who dictates play and makes sure players are doing their jobs, then this will keep happening.
Tony Abrahams
133 Posted 24/01/2020 at 09:20:24
I thought Mina, was starting to look decent, but I haven’t been overly impressed by him since Ancellotti came in to manage us. Hopefully it’s just an adjustment to what the new man requires, but I’m not so sure because he started very badly at West Ham, with his passing being atrocious, and by the end of that first half he had definitely been bullied quite a few times off Haller?

He also should have scored in the second half, when his header down took too much power off the ball, but goals are a bonus, and the most important thing needed off a 6ft 4in centre-half, is that you want him to dominate the opposing teams centre forward?

Andrew Hight
134 Posted 24/01/2020 at 09:36:50
I can’t make my mind up which one of Keane or Mina is worse. For me both unfortunately not good enough for Everton.
Jim Bennings
135 Posted 24/01/2020 at 09:51:53
There is a reason why we haven’t kept a clean sheet away from home since the opening day of the season.

Away from home, where you come under more pressure naturally, you look for leadership qualities all over the pitch but particularly in defensive area’s and defensive midfielders.

We lack organisation and leadership qualities in key area’s.

Is this going to change next season?

Not with the personnel we have, they can only take us so far but clearly limitations are there with this group, to sit and expect different results by repeating the same things in the finest definition of madness.

Kevin Prytherch
136 Posted 24/01/2020 at 10:00:44
Mike 125 - if we voted for our player of the year I wouldn’t have Mina there. Holgate has outshone him in pretty much every appearance this season. I’d even go as far as saying that Coleman and Sidibé would be higher than him, or at least on par.

Your choice of Calvert-Lewin shows how fickle some fans are (this isn’t directed solely at you), he would be in most peoples list for player of the year, yet just a few games ago he was still being roundly criticised for not being good enough, being “championship at best” (we might as well trademark that saying on here) and being “never more than a 1 in 7 striker”. Indeed, even 2 games ago some of those comments were creeping back in.

I hope Mina improves and he still has time to improve, however he is 25 and should be nearing his peak. Davies, on the other hand, is 22 and no where near his peak for a central midfielder. He could have lots of improvement in him. There’s countless good midfielders who have come of age in their late 20’s / early 30’s, such as Henderson, Barry etc. Even the likes of De Bruyne and Ericksen only really started to be world class midfielders in their mid 20’s.

Don’t write off Mina yet, but definitely don’t write Davies off yet.

Sam Hoare
137 Posted 24/01/2020 at 10:10:58
Tony@133, to be fair to Mina Haller is a serious unit and has won more headers per game than any player this season. Don't think many players will bully Mina who I think has been decent this season but could/should be better; at 25 he's got his best years ahead of him and I hope Ancelotti will bring the best out of him. I think Van Dijk really stepped up in class after he hit 27 and had experienced 2-3 season in the PL so am hopefully Mina can do similar though don't think he'll ever be that good.

He should definitely score more goals and has missed a few. He should be getting at least 3-5 a season.

John Pierce @130, where do you get the stat that he is outside the top 40 centre backs for aerial duels won?! I'd be staggered if that is correct. Whoscored has him winning 4 aerial duels per match which is in the top 10 for centre backs behind Keane and Zouma who both have 4.2. Top is Tarkowski on 5.

Mina barely played last season but now has 30 games for the club and in this league. I've had faith that he would improve but that improvement needs to start showing sooner rather later. Fingers crossed.

Niall McIlhone
138 Posted 24/01/2020 at 10:20:48
On the heading thing with Mina, I've got this mental image of Duncan ay Finch Farm trying to coach Mina and Keane on attacking hearders at corners:
Duncan: "Look Yerry, ye go full pelt when Lucas crosses eh? and head the bloody thing down that's it, oh wait, not THAT hard (ball baloons over bar off turf)
Yerry: "Sorry coach."
Duncan: "Now look Michael, you stay at the far post, get up on the back of the full back and head high into the net."
( Digne corsses-unchallenged header way over bar)
Michael: "Sorry coach, just can't get on top of those ".
Tony Abrahams
139 Posted 24/01/2020 at 10:32:31
Agree about Haller, Sam, but it’s still not nice when you see your centre-half getting bullied. I just think Mina, was better suited to Duncan Ferguson’s tactics, and hasn’t been as effective since Ancelloti came into the club.

Hopefully this will change when we have midfielders who are much more adept and positive, when going to get the ball off our defenders, but since Ancelloti came into Everton, Yerry Mina, looks like he’s got a bit more on his mind, and hasn’t looked as effective in his defending so far?

Paul Cherrington
141 Posted 24/01/2020 at 12:43:17
For me, Mina is not good enough to play for us and never will be. He is too full of mistakes, too prone to losing focus, too slow, too weak and poor positionally.

Combining him with Keane in any way is asking for trouble! Calling for more time will simply not do any good – you can see whether a player has it in him to step up but is adjusting to a new club/league but this is not the case for me with Mina. He is struggling because he is not up to the required level. He seems to be another one who is injury prone too.

As for the Tom Davies debate, I think he will never quite cut the mustard as a top Premier League player sadly. Probably a handy squad player to have around but nothing more. He has played enough games now to show true star quality and often is found wanting. You don't need years and years to do it if you are good enough.

If you look at how many goals he has cost us this season from poor play, it tells its own story. Nothing personal and I'm sure he is a nice guy but, as a footballer, I can't see him making the grade as a top Premier League player.

Tony Everan
142 Posted 24/01/2020 at 15:08:25
Regarding Mina's headers from free kicks and corners, don't think too much - priority is just get them on target then he may score, get a defelection, get a rebound, force a scrappy save and score from the slops . If the ball is headed over or wide, that probability field is not in play.

It's easier said than done.

John Pierce
143 Posted 24/01/2020 at 15:39:31
Sam, the qualifier is 75 centre backs who have played over 500 minutes in the premier. Both Holgate and Mina ranked between 45-60 for aerial success rate.

Whilst I understand Holgate, he’s mediocre in the air. Mina is to my eye is very poor as his physical traits suggest otherwise. I commented only last week, when a goal is scored he’s hardly ever in the frame.

Source from Royal blue podcast: Analyzing Everton. Worth a listen.

Mike Gaynes
144 Posted 24/01/2020 at 16:03:28
Darren #127, damn, man, you are just completely full of it today.

First, the Tinkerbell comment was a joke, based on a string of about 20 consecutive miserably negative posts you had put up. (And that was a good day.) Sorry it stuck with you for so long.

Second, I was never "whooping and clapping" Koeman and Walsh. Some signings I liked, some I didn't. I was negative about Keane (advocated for Steve Cook, better player at half the price) and Klaassen (said he was maybe the 5th best player on Ajax). I was positive about Gueye (correct), Pickford (correct), Schneiderlin (VERY incorrect) and Bolasie (who I still think would have worked out if not for the injury). I was pleased about Gylfi but not his price, and can't remember how I felt about Ashley. But you've got me mixed up with somebody else if you think I was ever a happy clapper on Koeman.

Third, the inexperienced Mina is still very much a work in progress, but his improvement is undeniable -- evidence the fact that the only "fuck up" you cite is him missing that goal. DCL has missed worse, and he's a far better goalscorer than Mina.

And as for "whinge-ing"... my god, your tears over my "attack on a youngster still learning the game"are beginning to melt my heart. I won't bother to point out that 21-year-olds are holding down starting jobs in top leagues all over the world, and that Davies has played four times as many Prem games as Mina, and twice as many top-level games overall in his career. So if he's still "learning the game", I'd say he's overdue for some remedial classes.

Sam Hoare
145 Posted 24/01/2020 at 16:05:52
John, I think those stats relate to his entire PL career. He’s winning a lot more this season than last (when he was playing injured). I can’t find the exact stats but I’d be surprised if he’s not in the top ten or near it this season.
John Pierce
146 Posted 24/01/2020 at 16:17:56
Sam, the stats are from this season. One Kurt Zouma 😬, is 2nd behind VVD who is 1st.

Whilst he might be winning a decent amount per game, it sounds like he’s losing a lot too in total too. Is winning 4 headed duels good when is out of 10 for example? I’d argue not.

My eye is drawn to his technique, I’ll repeat he is frequently drawn under the ball, his goal return based on opportunity backs that up. I bet you can recall numerous uncontested free headers, and the lad doesn’t even test the keeper, that is down to bad technique.

Just look at Tuesday. Free header, under no duress over and wide the corner of the goal. He had the whole goal to aim at. His viewed improvement this season is masked by the rapid and terminal decline of Keane. I’d argue he only got slightly better. Add in the need to nurse his fitness, (you cannot have a frail centre back) he will do for now, but not for long.

Colin Glassar
147 Posted 24/01/2020 at 16:20:44
Mike, I always thought Williams was like a dog without a bone and I was proven right. What a waste of space that useless lump turned out to be. I was totally wrong on Klaasen as I’d watched him for Ajax and thought he’d be great for us.

Moral of the story? Transfers are hit and miss. Sadly, Everton have too many misses in recent decades.

P.S. Someone on here, the other day, advocated for the return of Williams, believe it or not! 😂😂😂

Mike Gaynes
148 Posted 24/01/2020 at 16:37:04
Colin, you're kidding! Really?

Actually, I remember Ashley, like Schneiderlin, being quite good for the first ten or so games with us before falling off a cliff. One memory that still brings a smile is his late gamewinner over Arsenal. Crashing header and then he ran about half the length of the Goodison pitch just screaming his head off. Great moment, especially because I was watching the game with a Gooner.

Andy Crooks
149 Posted 24/01/2020 at 17:04:04
I am just going to to get some popcorn and enjoy Mike v Darren. Two passionate blues at the top of their game. I have the utmost admiration for both of you. This takes me back to vintage ToffeeWeb. Proper, fierce debate.
John G Davies
150 Posted 24/01/2020 at 17:20:39
Great to see good debate, Andy. Long may it continue.

I reckon Darren is down on Mina because he backed him at 40/1 for the first goal vs Newcastle. :-)

To be honest, Mina went for a cross in the first half he should have scored from. I jumped off my chair, excited for Darren's bet.

End of the day, it's all about opinion and we are all entitled to post our own.

Neil Cremin
151 Posted 24/01/2020 at 17:47:36
Mike Gaynes, I cannot believe that you are justifying your judgements on signed players to include the Pickford signing is correct.
Mike Gaynes
152 Posted 24/01/2020 at 17:51:37
Neil, I know you can't stand the guy. I think he's done well for us. So we disagree.
Gordon Adie
153 Posted 24/01/2020 at 17:58:24
I may be in the minority here but I think you won't see the best of Kean until he sheds at least two stones.
Jay Harris
154 Posted 24/01/2020 at 18:01:53
I think it's hard to judge any player at the moment with a thoroughly depleted squad and no doubt some of them carrying knocks.

It's like a good recipe if you're missing one or two ingredients the meal won't be nearly as good.

Let's hop wee get a good midfield player in this window and I think that will make a lot of the players look better.

Bill Gienapp
155 Posted 24/01/2020 at 19:43:40
We had a two-goal lead with a minute of extra time remaining. Darren arguing that the real reason we didn't win was because Mina didn't ensure we had a three-goal lead with a minute of extra time remaining is the finest Skip Bayless impression I've seen on here (hopefully that resonates with my fellow Yanks).
David Currie
156 Posted 24/01/2020 at 20:28:45
Mina needs to be more dominant in the air in both boxes, since December Holgate has been our best defender and is twice the footballer Mina and Keane are.
David Currie
157 Posted 24/01/2020 at 20:28:45
Mina needs to be more dominant in the air in both boxes, since December Holgate has been our best defender and is twice the footballer Mina and Keane are.
Mike Gaynes
158 Posted 24/01/2020 at 22:10:27
It does, Bill #155, and it made me smile.

Bayless makes Stephen A look like a Pulitzer Prize journalist.

Sam Hoare
159 Posted 24/01/2020 at 00:08:29
John@146; that’s interesting though I’m slightly dubious about the source of the stats.

Interesting that Zouma’s is second. He was definitely our best CB last year.

Neil Cremin
160 Posted 25/01/2020 at 00:34:56
Mike
I have no feelings for Jordon but I cannot for the life of me see how people regard him as a good keeper. A very good shot stopper yes but in my humble opinion a destabilising influence and poor organiser of his defence, a poor distributor of the football, rarely commands the 6 yard box and looses concentration and sense of where he is on the field of play. One out of five qualities for a good goalkeeper to me means he is not good enough.
Graham Hammond
161 Posted 25/01/2020 at 01:56:42
Neil at 160. I am with you on Pickford mate. I have seen enough. Get rid if we can, hopefully, raise much-needed funds in the process.
Mike Dolan
162 Posted 25/01/2020 at 02:08:01
Pickford is indeed like Tim Howard and like Tim he really has times when he totally loses concentration and acts erratically. He is all reflexes and very little technique.
I hate to see goalies punching the ball out unless it’s the last resort. You never know where the ball ends up.
The thing that great goalies do that Pickford doesn’t is position themselves to make easy saves. Gordon Banks or Gordon West or Pat Jennings To pick three from the same era could all make spectacular flying saves but they seldom had to because they read the game so well they were usually in the right spot when the ball arrived.

Pickford Is very capable of the spectacular but he really struggles with the simple. Does this need coaching or does it need treating? I really hope they can sort him out.

Eric Myles
163 Posted 25/01/2020 at 03:38:59
I've noticed from watching the odd non-Everton games that most goalies these days stay on the line and don't come for crosses, to catch OR punch. At least that's my impression.

Maybe it's the modern coaching methods?

Eric Myles
164 Posted 25/01/2020 at 03:50:00
It's surprising that Mina has developed Koldrup's disease since he joined us considering that more than half his goals for his national team have been headers.
John Pierce
165 Posted 25/01/2020 at 03:57:18
Sam, the lads work for Reach PLC as content writers for analysis.

Make of the source what you will. But the stats definitely back up the eye test for my money.
Mina is no more than a squad player if we get good at any point!


Paul Ward
166 Posted 25/01/2020 at 06:03:00
Mike Dolan#162, I have a similar opinion on goalkeepers. "Pickford is indeed like Tim Howard and like Tim he really has times when he totally loses concentration and acts erratically."

Personally I would give Pickford more time as he is still a better keeper than Howard was.

In my time watching Everton, (starting with Jimmy O'Neill), the only keepers that were not erratic have been Big Nev and Nigel Martyn.

Even Gordon West suffered from nerves but he was a top keeper.

As you said Mike, Gordon Banks and Pat Jennings were great readers of the game and commanded their penalty area.

Neil Cremin
167 Posted 25/01/2020 at 07:27:21
I would also add David Seaman (Ronaldinho aside) who had great positional sense and always made goalkeeping look very easy..
Steve Shave
168 Posted 25/01/2020 at 07:40:15
I read a stat this morning which I found interesting. An alternative PL table based on 1st half performances only this season has us at 3rd in the table. Conversely, the one based on 2nd half performances only has us last! If true this casts a light on our fitness levels which have long been questioned on here not good enough.
Neil Cremin
169 Posted 25/01/2020 at 07:46:02
One last final comment on Pickford is that I am not advocating selling him because that doesn’t solve the problem, we may end up with a different problem. He needs to be coached but I have seen no improvement since he joined the club. Maybe Alan Kelly can make progress with him. The real test is not what we armchair or sideline mangers think but what a successful professional manager thinks. Carlo will be know whether he wants to keep him as he is, coach him to be better or get rid because he will never become the keeper he has the potential to be. Time will tell.

Robert Tressell
170 Posted 25/01/2020 at 08:01:24
Mina is worth persevering with for another season. Cant argue with the negative comments about him. But this is pretty much his first season in the prem given injuries last time around. It took vidic and Evra a little while to settle in, so worth giving Mina time too. Plus we've been a mess with little or no midfield cover and any number of defensive tactics deployed. For me, the priorities would be right back, left footed attacker / right winger and top quality centre mid. A v good left footed centre half would be great but that might end up being Gibson.
Darren Hind
171 Posted 25/01/2020 at 08:04:42
You really are having a laugh Mike. Take a look back. You whooped and hollered at everything that came through the door,
The "twenty consecutive miserable negative posts" you refer to, was me telling you we were buying duds.

You havent changed a bit. Your'e no different now... Everything that comes through the door has you applauding. You think the sun shines out of Brands arse.
All I ever hear about this guy is how he has cleared the dead wood, but as soon as he ships one out (usually for free) he spends a fortune on bringing a another substandard player in. Twenty eight million for IWOBI !!! Are you fucking sure ???... And you think he's the dogs bollocks. Barcelona have had his kecks down so many times he's got a permanent invite to their Chrimbo do..

The only people shining in this team right now are players Brands had nothing to do with... and If you and others had their way they wouldnt even be in the team either. You were completely dismissive of Holgate as a viable replacement to the light houses. Now you are at it again with Davies.

I'm not shedding any tears about you criticising Davies, but I am registering disgust at the way you went about it. The whole culture within this fan base. THAT is my problem. THAT is what I'm talking about when I say I will one day walk away from this club. You can only assume they don't know what they are talking about for so long. But at some stage the penny drops. You realise. THEY'LL NEVER FUCKING KNOW !

If any of my Grandsons prove good enough to play at the top I will do everything in my power to ensure it wont be for this club. Id want them to go to a club where the fans are a help to their development. Not a fucking handicap.

Yerry Mina ?. . . Fuck me

Bows and sadly shakes his head

Mike Benjamin
172 Posted 25/01/2020 at 08:15:18
Darren. You think the fan base at other clubs are any different? Take a look at their fan sites and the only thing that changes is the name. In terms of players brought in by Brands do you think of Richarlison, Bernard and Gomes? Nobody on here criticised Digne at the end of last season. Kean is starting to show what he’s got, even at 19.
Steve Shave
173 Posted 25/01/2020 at 11:22:09
Whilst not wanting to wade into a disagreement, I would agree with some of the sentiments made by Darren. I've thought long and hard about our struggles and I do believe we are perpetually weighed down by expectations of the past being applied to a completely different landscape. Also, and critically ( to merge with Darren's point) the ghosts of the past seem to manifest in an unrealistic expectation of our young players, the more home grown, the worse it is. I think it is (to a degree) human nature to search for a scapegoat, at this club it inherent amongst the fan base. This together with the players inevitable failure to meet our unrelenting standards means we turn on them so quickly and often very vociferously. I say this in recognition of my own previous propensity to fall into "the trap". I believe this is a cancer eating away at our club and we as a fanbase need to address it.
Brian Harrison
174 Posted 25/01/2020 at 11:41:03
Well maybe not the circumstances he wanted but being already knocked out of the FA Cup, Ancelotti will for the first time since arriving have will have 10 days on the training ground with the players. I am sure he would have preferred it on the back of a victory rather than what happened against Newcastle. But I am sure he will be reminding them of how well they played for 80 minutes and not dwelling to much on the last couple of minutes.

We are now entering the last week of the transfer window, I don't know if we will buy anybody or not, my opinion is don't bother with Gomes and Iwobi and Gbamin all back in training I think we would be better keeping our funds till the summer. I would imagine that Ancelotti will set out which players he would like in the summer, but getting the players he wants to come here might be a different matter. I think most of us are ruing that seeing a lot of the fancied teams are struggling, we havent been able to challenge the top 6 places.

Mike Dolan
175 Posted 25/01/2020 at 13:52:59
As far as the transfer window is concerned. Even though Gomes, Gbamin and Iwobi are all on the way back it might be best to bring Gbamin along cautiously. It was stated when he was purchased that he was not brought in to be a direct replacement for Gana and there was talk about him being able to play as a central defender. Given that Mason Holgate was an absolute revelation in the defensive mid role and that Gibson and Pennington seem to be emerging as potential cover for our existing CDs. I would say we could take a chance until the exact candidate comes along to replace Michael Keane who is in the long run too inconsistent.
The forwards DCL, Richarlison, Kean and Gordon are now emerging as a multi-faceted young group with massive potential. They just need games to polish up their riffs.

The one position that would really improve everything if we could get the right player is an out and out attacking midfielder. Gylfi is getting a lot of stick but he is a brilliant footballer who Just no longer fits into the style of football that Everton try to play. I hate to see such a gem of a footballer struggle but he never had a lot of pace and at 30 he has lost a step.... Shamus an Bainsey same story.

This window a serious attacking Mid and a utility wide defender. Or maybe we have that already with Delph.

Kieran Kinsella
176 Posted 25/01/2020 at 14:21:23
Mike Dolan

Is Pennington still around? I remember him going on loan last year and doing OK but didn’t he have a bad loan this season and his contract is almost up?

Kieran Kinsella
177 Posted 25/01/2020 at 14:28:09
Just Googled “Matthew Pennington” and Googles predictive algorithm pre filled with “Matthew Pennington obituary” Must be a namesake or Google are really unimpressed with his career
Mike Dolan
178 Posted 25/01/2020 at 14:37:47
Scuse me for the Pickfordesque brain fart. Not Pennington I meant Feeney
Dave Abrahams
179 Posted 25/01/2020 at 16:12:35
Kieran (176), Mathew Pennington is at Hull City, I think he had an injury early this season so hasn’t played much, his contract finishes at the end of next season, so there is a chance we could still get a fee for him, when he went on loan to Leeds Unt. a couple of seasons ago it was reported that we received £500’000 as a loan fee for his services.
Max Murphy
180 Posted 25/01/2020 at 16:54:15
No game which means no ritual humiliation, embarrassment or hiding our heads in shame this weekend. Instead, we listen to the FA Cup games in progress, wondering why we're not playing. (Well, we all know why...)

Jamie Crowley, is next week's fixture against Watford another one of your "winnable games"? Like West Ham and Newcastle? Or will it be down to Carlo Ancelotti to bring on his "crock of shit" substitutes to lose us 2 points again?

Your sycophantic adoration of Ancelotti is both cringe-worthy and misplaced.

Mike Gaynes
181 Posted 25/01/2020 at 17:32:39
Mike D, one strong candidate for attacking mid is on display right now. Watch Bowen of Hull against Chelsea in the Cup tie just starting. He is a dynamic young player.
Peter Hopkins
182 Posted 25/01/2020 at 18:05:51
Mike 181,he does look a good player,scored a few too,he is definitely a player we should be looking at and with a couple of our players on loan there already should help with the negotiations
Jeff Spiers
183 Posted 25/01/2020 at 19:08:04
Eric@163. Keepers are definitely told to stay on their line. Apparently, the defenders should cope and deal with any thing into the box, which can get crowded. If the keeper gets into the mix, fumbles and ends up on the deck the ball is favourite for the striker, so they say. Call me old fashioned, goalies in my day were TOLD to deal with this situation, command your area. Catch, punch and don't let anyone get in yer way. I am 5ft8in and played in goal in the Business House league. Yeah, I fluffed a few, but I was quite capable of commanding my area! Footie is a simple game made difficult by complicated coaching. I've had me rant!
Jason Lloyd
184 Posted 26/01/2020 at 12:33:10
I think Ancelotti has identified the two main reasons we're in trouble at the moment and the keeper position is 3rd in the list.

The biggest problem is the right side of the team, right back, right winger and right attack.

Second biggest problem is ball retention, pace and forward passing in central midfield.

This is why he is trying to correct this in January with a right winger and centre midfielder.

Then we can look seriously at Pickford and lack of centre backs and a striker in the summer.

Darren Hind
185 Posted 26/01/2020 at 12:57:16
Mike 172

I don't go onto other clubs websites because I'm only really interested in this one, but I do know other clubs' fans encourage their younger players far more than ours do. They will show their support and pride by singing "He's one of our own". Evertonians are fare more likely to sing "We're trying to disown"

Bernard is a skillful player but, for every decent game he plays, he will play four where he's ineffectual. They used to say that about James McFadden.

As for Brands's other signings, they seem to always slot into one of two categories: Shite or injured. Too often on the sickbed to get any kind of consistency going. Is that down purely to bad luck? Na...

Richarlison seems to be the exception. Although not quite top drawer. He is one of the few who may be worth more than what we actually paid for him.

Mike Benjamin
186 Posted 26/01/2020 at 17:59:34
Darren,

In recent years the only players that you could say are our own are Barkley, Davies and Kenny. I agree with you to some extent re: Barkley, he received more criticism than other players. Davies is a strange one because there is a willingness for him to do well but it isn't happening.

The one that could significantly change things is Anthony Gordon, assuming he gets a fair chance, although it is doubtful whether that will come anytime soon. Supporters at games do sometimes get on his back, which has steadily worse in the last couple of seasons, possibly due to the flatlining of his progression.

The only one of Brands signing you could class as injury-prone is Delph. Gbamin and Gomes have long term, single injuries. We don't know whether the former is shit or not and Gomes is a class act who we have missed so much.

Digne was last years' player of the season and a regular in the French squad. To mention Bernard in the same breath as McFadden is a disgrace. He needs to have more of an impact in away games but at home has undoubtedly been our most creative player.

Mina struggled last season but has been of our best players this season, playing most games. Sidibe has been one of our Best attacking threats and if we sign for the £12 m already agreed, it would be a steal.

Richarlison, not quite top drawer but, for his age, is damn obviously getting there. Given their relatively young ages (apart from Delph), if we sold them all, we would undoubtedly show a significant profit.

John G Davies
187 Posted 26/01/2020 at 18:19:32
Is it only the players who come under the criteria of "one of our own" we are not allowed to give stick to?

I ask because the players who are not in that group get some terrible stick off posters appalled at the treatment the homegrown players get.

Don Alexander
188 Posted 26/01/2020 at 19:52:39
I suggest one of us is getting a tad delirious with argument for argument's sake (yet again) when he resorts to saying Brazil's current 22-year-old regularly picked forward is "not quite top drawer". Yeah right!
Darren Hind
189 Posted 26/01/2020 at 19:54:52
"Delph is our only injury-prone player" — LOL! Are you sure?

Have you seen Gomes's record? Mina has spent nearly more time on the sick bed than he has taking time-outs. I just watched him lying on the floor as Newcastle scored their second again – sickening. You fan-boys roaring your approval of these signings kills me.

Take a look at the Premier League table. We are half-a-dozen places behind where Deadly Dave used to finish and we have spent £500M to get there. Our signings have been cringeworthy!!!

We must be the only club in the world who could have a billionaire owner, a "top class" Director of Football, a "world class" manager, a load of "top quality" signings... and still be chasing the worst Arsenal and Man Utd teams in memory. Not to mention Crystal Palace, Southampton, Wolves and Sheffield Utd...

And still they applaud!


Darren Hind
190 Posted 26/01/2020 at 20:52:51
No wonder we struggle. It's quite depressing at how low some people set the bar when talking about Everton players being "top drawer".

I've just been looking at a list of the Premier League's top 10 goalscorers. Richarlison is nowhere to be seen.

I blame John Ebrell.

Don Alexander
191 Posted 26/01/2020 at 22:40:46
Dazza, very few, if any of us see it in the permanently black/white you do when it comes to players. You denigrate the senior players in the team and ALWAYS make the case for the youngsters. That's creditable for a fan but unfortunately in your latest post you lambast Richi, 22 yrs old, for what you now deem to be an ineffectual output in terms of goals, without any reference at all to the senior "inadequates" you elsewhere lambast (with good reason I might add)!

I'm not a psychologist but menopause can do strange things to otherwise sane people. Perhaps it now extends to male-menopause?

I cite the hissy fit you've very recently posted on your intention to depart TW if, in your view, the alleged criticism of younger players continues unabated, which you then topped by saying that you'd insist any talented grandson of yours should go anywhere but Everton for a career as a pro footballer!

Cahm down la', cahm down!

Darren Hind
192 Posted 27/01/2020 at 10:17:48
You do make me smile, Don.

I don't know whether you simply aren't able to understand even the most basic point, or your inherent desire to score one hampers your ability to compute anything you have just read.

Nowhere do I lambast Richarlison. I lambast the stupidity of your claim that a forward who can't get into the top ten on either goals scored or assists should be considered top drawer.

In case you hadn't noticed, Richarlison is a youngster. One who I have high hopes for in the future, but I have seen too many really "top drawer" players to realize the foolishness of your claims that he is already top drawer are... "Lambast" him? You`d have been the only one who read that.

Then there's this false claim you make about me intending to "depart" TW. Yet another less-than-intelligent lie. If I walk away from this club, it will be because of the abuse from people like you directed at young players at Goodison Park. It's far worse than any of the relatively mild comments I've read on here. TW has nothing to do with it.

I shook my head in complete disbelief when people like you were so outraged when Ross Barkley ran his contract down. You'd verbally abused the boy for years. In your case, in a particularly nasty way which had nothing to do with his footballing ability.

I love that Calvert-Lewin and Holgate have silenced the boo boys (for now).

I most definitely stand by my comment that I would do everything in my power to stop any young relative of mine joining this club. The thought of allowing him to be subject to the sort of cowardly nasty treatment you dished out to young Ross for years makes my blood run cold.

"Ross Barkley's thick, dopey, an idiot"... Oh the irony!

Mike Benjamin
193 Posted 27/01/2020 at 10:28:16
As far as I can see, nobody has said that any of our players are top drawer.

My opinion, however, is that Richarlison is getting there. For his age, his goals output is acceptable at the moment given that he has been played as much out wide as striker.

Darren – the leading scorers you refer to, apart from Rashford and Abraham, are all in their prime and certainly more experienced. Perhaps if he didn't run his bollocks off for 90 minutes then he might get more. Importantly, people that really matter, ie, the Brazil manager, think he does have something special. It's like Lukaku, he wasn't really appreciated on here until he had gone!

Conor McCourt
194 Posted 27/01/2020 at 11:25:57
Darren, it's something which I've noticed over the last 10 or so years which I thought was just us getting sucked into the modern 'instant success' culture.

I'm 41 and, growing up in the '80s and '90s in Ireland, I was often seen as a weirdo in football terms as I was always surrounded by glory hunters who couldn't understand my love affair with the club. But deep down, there was often a 'fair play' attitude to me because we were a proper club, with proper supporters and essentially were the People's Club not just in name. Friends and family who loved giving me stick also had a soft spot for us due to how we behaved and many were Man Utd or Liverpool fans.

Maybe I was just naive but I've noticed a huge difference in how we treat our players and especially the homegrown. For me, Tom Davies has still been the best midfielder at the club this season, despite what we are constantly told. One poster claimed that Rooney was performing at 16 so at 21 isn't young. If we hold players to those standards, we haven't a player for Saturday.

Forget that Davies carried the team for a couple of months despite Silva initially not giving him a chance; forget that he's had more decent games this season than Sigurdsson, Schneiderlin, Delph and Iwobi put together – despite their outlay, he seems to get more abuse than any of them regardless of his character because he has had a poor month.

I do slightly disagree with you on Richarlison being a top player. I take your point about him not being the finished article yet but, up until recently, he's been played wide or up top alone, which makes it difficult to get the chances to get to 20 goals a season. He isn't a creative player either. I think playing up top with Calvert-Lewin will see his figures get closer to where we would all like – though the caveat is if Moise continues to flourish.

I do find it strange that you are constantly seemingly in a lone fight on ToffeeWeb to preserve the integrity of what is supposed to be the essence of our club yet it's almost sacrilege to question the likes of Brands and Ancelotti because of their Hollywood status. On another thread, there was a discussion laughing at us who had the audacity to question Carlo because we are simple fans (keyboard warriors) while he is a legend who is one of the great tacticians. If our fan base don't think we should have a voice, what hope is there for the powers to be?

Steve Ferns
195 Posted 27/01/2020 at 12:48:42
Good post Conor. I took a short break from ToffeeWeb after the Newcastle game because of the ridiculous crucifixion on here of Tom Davies. The lad is not allowed to make a mistake. He is not allowed time to develop. People dismiss his age on the basis of how long he has been around for, or that great players were great by the same age.

The greatest of them all, Dixie Dean, had his greatest season in 1928 when we won the league and he scored 60 league goals. He was only 21. He left Everton having been unable to get a starting berth at the age of 30, in an era when many played to a ripe old age.

Rooney might have burst onto the scene at 16, but you could argue that he was past his best by 2014 or 2015, again by the age of 30, and in an era where the older Zlatan (38) and Cristiano Ronaldo Aveiro (34) are still performing at the top level.

Just because some burst on the scene young, does not mean they should develop quickly. Davies is not a powerful pacey player like Rooney. A lot of his game is in his head, and that requires maturity. That should see him playing older, and so he should be coming into his own at the age of 25+.

The greatest midfielder of my generation is Zinedine Zidane. He great man was a slow developer. Like Davies he was playing at 17. He did enough to get a move to Bordeaux at the age of 20. But he was not the star he would become and was scouted and passed over by many, including Newcastle who reportedly described him as a Championship player or, more accurately, "a First Division player" (as said League was then called). Link: Football Agent Barry Silkman. It was not the age of 24 and moving to Juventus that Zidane transformed into the player we all know and admire.

Davies ain't Dean, Rooney, or Zidane. He's Tom Davies. Give him time and patience and he will come good. He's playing in one of the hardest positions on the pitch, the one that requires the most experience, as you need to read the game and interact with every other position on the pitch. If Tom Davies was put up for sale, there would be a long queue to sign him, and that would include a load of Premier League clubs. He'd get in most Premier League sides.

Steve Brown
196 Posted 27/01/2020 at 12:53:46
In assessing Brands's transfer activity, start with his philosophy which is to buy young players who have higher resale value, and promote the Academy players to the first team or sell them for profit. My prediction is that Digne, Mina, Bernard, Gbamin, Richarlison and Gomes will all be sold for higher fees than we signed them for. Only Delph won't.

Unsworth is also doing an excellent job of developing young talent – Calvert-Lewin and Holgate were signed into the Academy but developed under David Unsworth, while Davies and Kenny will also be in our first team squad next season. Players who cannot make the first team will fetch fees if they are sold to Championship clubs or abroad. So developing young players is good business.

Compare that to Williams, Schneiderlin, Walcott, Sigurdsson, Keane, Bolasie, Klaassen – all of whom will be have a lower resale value when they finally depart – well done, Steve Walsh.

Football is passion but it is also a commercial business. Barkley ran out his contract to increase his salary, signing-on bonus, and his agent's fee – to the disadvantage of Everton, so it is absolutely fair game for our supporters to call him out.

Rating Brands is not denigrating Unsworth; respecting Ancelotti is not disrespecting Duncan. It is not a binary choice of home-grown = good and outsiders = bad. If we develop our home talent and enhance with outside capability, this club will do a lot better.

Steve Ferns
197 Posted 27/01/2020 at 13:22:26
I agree, Steve, but I would say that Unsworth tends to get hold of the players at an older age. Most of the work and development is already done by the time he gets to work with them. He's only getting around 6-12 months with the ones who do make it. A lot of credit needs to go to the various academy managers.
Conor McCourt
198 Posted 27/01/2020 at 13:24:47
Steve Ferns @195,

Some great points about Tom.

I also ridiculed the Championship view of the player when you compare squad midfielders at Man Utd, Leicester City and Arsenal, some of which Tom is ahead of at international level, so the top 6 argument is also dubious. It's our senior players who we should be able to hang our hat on and have Davies improving around them.

Brilliant stuff regarding Newcastle and Zidane, I never knew that.

Steve @196,

When I questioned Brands, it was this summer's work and primarily his role in improving the squad from window to window. I, like most Blues, still have high hopes for Gbamin and Kean to come good and won't be surprised if it is positive in the long run. It was almost seen as heresy yet my fears were all borne out.

Your comparisons of Walsh and Brands, imo, are a pointless exercise. Firstly, nearly all Evertonians agree that the former was a disaster, so Brands should not be held to the lowest standard as proof of success. Secondly, Walsh wasn't tasked with the same brief as Brands; Brands's brief was a reaction to the disaster that went before.

Walsh's brief was less about development and more about providing instant success. The poor state he left us was as much on Moshiri as it was Walsh, imo, considering the nucleus they inherited.

Steve Ferns
199 Posted 27/01/2020 at 13:31:37
Agreed about Moshiri, Conor. It was the triumvirate of Walsh, Koeman and Moshiri who are to blame for that summer. Walsh, though, could have bought slightly younger, ie, not so many about to turn 30.

That summer has placed handcuffs on Everton (due to FFP regulations) that have hindered Brands ever since he arrived. I'd like to see what Brands would be able to do once the handcuffs come off, and I'm sure he won't make the same mistakes.

Kevin Prytherch
200 Posted 27/01/2020 at 13:44:12
Steve and Conor. I agree with what you both say here. I would question which of Brands's signings would make a profit if we sold them today, but I do have faith they will eventually increase in value.

The area which I expected a lot more from Brands was the development side. Under Walsh (correct me if these are incorrect, they're from memory) we signed Calvert-Lewin, Adeniran, Gibson, Foulds, Bowler and possibly a couple more. While some of these won't make it, the gamble pays off as long as the occasional one does (probably Calvert-Lewin). I expected more in this area from Brands – but possibly on a more international scale than Walsh.

John G Davies
201 Posted 27/01/2020 at 13:48:41
Steve,

I don't think posters are advocating crucifixion of Tom. Most, me included, pointed out he had a poor game and has struggled recently.

I can't have that he would "get in most Premier League sides" either, I'm afraid.
Certainly nowhere near the top clubs.

Liverpool? No.
Man City? No.
Leicester City? No.
Chelsea? No.
Spurs? No.
Wolves? No.
Arsenal? No.

Jay Wood
[BRZ]

202 Posted 27/01/2020 at 13:56:41
Take a bow, Steve Brown @ 196.

A very well constructed and balanced post. Too often judgement and opinion on any Everton related issues tend to be quite binary by some at both ends of the spectrum.

This seems heavily influenced by the 'law of immediacy' - what has just happened in a game, or the most recent game played.

Everything good that went before the more immediate incident of a game, or all previous games, is dismissed and forgotten.

The Newcastle game is a classic example.

For the overwhelming bulk of that game we were excellent. Because of what happened in the madcap final two minutes, people pile on to individual players, the manager, whoever and whatever.

Out come the preconceived notions some hold about said players and manager and then posters across the divide get into squabbles with each other.

Tom Davies, who has played well since his recall to the side, gets lambasted and described as having never done anything since his goal-scoring MoTM performance against City three seasons ago.

People are unable to acknowledge that both Delph and Schneiderlin had good games.

The manager is described as a dinosaur, resorting to 1990s Italian tactics due to his subs.

I remain a big fan of Tom Davies. I am a big fan of Carlo Ancelotti's appointment. That does not mean that I will only praise either or both of them all the time and exempt them from criticism.

On the flip side, I am not greatly enamoured of either Delph or Schneiderlin, but I can acknowledge when they play well.

Football, like life, is never as black and white - as binary - as Steve describes it.

I would just take issue with you Steve on Ross Barkley. The club, the then manager and the board as good as drove him out themselves, thus losing him for a much lower fee than he could have fetched or retaining him as a playing asset.

Ronald Koeman (and the board for allowing him to do so) handled that one very badly. There was a lot of sympathy and incredulity on TW at the time just how badly the club 'managed' that situation.

Eddie Dunn
203 Posted 27/01/2020 at 14:00:52
I have mixed feelings regarding Tom Davies. He has had a lot on his plate and may well be knackered. His shortcomings though are his sometimes wayward passing and his lack of pace. His passing can still improve, as can his stamina. He is a young player and I recall Osman being shipped out on loan a couple of times and even on his return it took him until his mid-late twenties before he became really consistent.

So, plenty of time for Davies. What he really needs is some help in the middle. Danny Murphy today on TalkShite was talking about West Ham's midfield and commented that neither Rice nor Noble was quick, but he, himself was never that quick but could still harry and harass.

He added that the game management skills were more important. You normally get better at that with time.

Conor McCourt
204 Posted 27/01/2020 at 14:06:00
Oh agreed, Steve. I feel he has clearly been constrained but I can't excuse this summer's outlay on that basis. Purchasing two injury-plagued players who play the exact same role is just dumb – especially when one of them was ironically supposed to be replacing 'deadwood' who was talented but injury-prone.

Also, what worries me is that Silva seemed to have a big say in the more successful window but seemed marginalised in this one, with Iwobi and Delph players he clearly didn't want and positions which he identified unfulfilled.

Kevin also makes a great point about the little gems Moyes and Martinez used to purchase, like Coleman, Stones and Holgate, which I too was expecting globally from Marcel.

Rob Young
205 Posted 27/01/2020 at 14:39:15
I just don't see it in Tom Davies, I'm afraid. He's definitely not the only one but surely part of our huge problems of giving the ball away all the fucking time.

Also, I don't see him drive forward purposely. Instead, he checks, waits for contact and tries to win a free-kick. Often resulting in him going down and losing possession as there is not enough in it.

If he plays well, he plays well but I just haven't seen it in a long time.

David Cash
206 Posted 27/01/2020 at 14:51:59
I don't agree with all you say here, Dazza. But you are spot on about Ross Barkley.

I remember flying over for a game and he misplaced his first pass. I was astounded at the amount of hatred and venom raining down from the stand. It even carried on over a half-time pie. I have honestly never heard anything like it.

That was long before his contract was even discussed. It would appear his tormentors wanted him to sign for less money so they could give him more abuse. The kid owed these people nothing. He did the right thing by getting himself out of such a hostile situation. Especially as he was able to get himself a nice deal.

Steve @196,

Nobody is denigrating Unsworth or Ferguson. They did okay, but they didn't sign anybody. We can hardly say they did a good or indeed a bad job of bringing players in.

Brands has and will always face judgment based on his signings – I think I'll wait a bit longer before I make mine though...

Mike Dolan
207 Posted 27/01/2020 at 15:33:58
Tom Davies will turn out to be a terrific player. He has played really well in a number of positions for us this season and he does seem to creating more space for himself although he seems to try to play the ball faster than he can control it. His timing isn’t quite there yet. It will come though because his instinct is usually right. He does have an infectious enthusiasm and we have needed that so often this season.

Marcel Brands has done a great job so far the players he has brought in I have no problem with. Gomes is maybe the classiest player to pull on the blue shirt since Arteta. Bernard show genius at times, Rich is tenacious and scores brilliant goals, a great player and actor. Gbamin we screwed up by playing him before he was fully fit. Delph was signed as a multi position fill in player not as a starter.

As a club we are about 60% through a total rebuild and this season we really have suffered by piling all of our long term injuries into the key midfield area.

A little imagination should tell us that just a couple of starting players ( say Vecino and EVERTON Soares) and the injured players back In action and we are really close to ending the rebuild stage.

Who would have thought for instance that at this stage of a totally frustrating season we would not be talking about the need for a goal scorer in the middle of the park?

Steve Brown
208 Posted 27/01/2020 at 16:12:22
Conor @ 198, Brands task is indeed a reaction to the Walsh disaster, which has resulted in him already brokering over 70 transfers to dig us out of the hole created by the board, Koeman and Walsh. He has added resale value to the squad and tried to offload liabilities. We need to keep finding value in the market and I hope Brands is the man to do that.

David @ 206, I do think Unsworth and Ferguson have been undervalued over the years by fans and certain managers, which I hope will now change. Both have an elevated status and respect at the club now which is overdue; it is also excellent to see Ebrell and Jeffers working well at the club.

Jay @ 202, fair point on Barkley. Koeman did handle him really badly! And yes, more balanced assessments would be great as we played well for 90 minutes against Newcastle and comically for 5 minutes. Having looked at the goals you could assign blame to several players for each, not just Tom.

Jay Evans
209 Posted 27/01/2020 at 16:26:43
Sorry Mike 207, Tom won’t, unfortunately.

As for his ‘infectious enthusiasm’ if he was anymore laid back he’d be horizontal.

Great Evertonian. Nice lad. Average footballer.

If we are going to take the next step, players of Tom’s calibre are simply not good enough. I would love to be wrong honestly I would but he’s been treading water far too long now.

His lack of pace will always hold him back as well.

As for the skateboard 🤔

John G Davies
210 Posted 27/01/2020 at 16:48:56
He's definitely confident enough. Lack of confidence won't stop him if he's good enough.

https://www.instagram.com/1tomdavies/?hl=en

Jay Wood
[BRZ]

211 Posted 27/01/2020 at 17:10:17
A good insight from Carlo Ancelotti himself on how he manages in modern day football. An interview on the club site:

Link

Simple commonsense stuff.

David Thomas
212 Posted 27/01/2020 at 17:28:24
Mike 207,

I hope Brands and Ancellotti aren’t of the same opinion as you that we are a couple of starting players off the rebuild being nearly finished.

We are miles off regularly competing near the top of the league.

If we are to ever get back to the top table then we are at least 5 or 6 starting players short currently.

Mike Dolan
213 Posted 27/01/2020 at 17:31:44
Jay, He might not make it, let’s face it the odds of any young player making it are abysmally slight more especially
Mike Dolan
214 Posted 27/01/2020 at 17:39:33
Whoops.
Mike Benjamin
215 Posted 27/01/2020 at 18:01:08
Mike#207. Some common sense points there. If we were playing a game of higher or lower in the sell on value of players Brands has brought in then there would be far more higher than lower. He got Bernard on a free and although his wages are high it was still a steal. We have been unfortunate this season in that most of our injuries have been in the same CM position. It is no coincidence that the teams above us like Leicester and Wolves have been more fortunate. CA is not helping Davies at the moment by insisting on playing him on the left. Against Man C and when he came on against Newcastle, he looked totally lost, playing with no energy or enthusiasm. There is no doubt though that we need to be mentally stronger, some how instilling some leadership. That is what has been shocking about Delph in that I thought that is why we had bought him. So far he has shown none of that quality.
Kevin Prytherch
216 Posted 27/01/2020 at 18:14:51
Mike - 215
I think we should play the game as I don’t think we’d get what we paid currently (although I do think their values will rise)

My opinions...

Digne - Higher
Bernard - Higher
Mina - Lower
Sidibe - n/a
Gomes - same
Gbamin - same
Iwobi - lower
Kean - same
Delph - lower

Eddie Dunn
217 Posted 27/01/2020 at 18:18:34
Surely Tom has "made It". He is a PL footballer earning a super wage and whether he continues to do so with us or not, he is good enough to ply his trade for a PL club or Championship club.
Derek Taylor
218 Posted 27/01/2020 at 18:50:56
Every sixth or seventh game we look a decent team so, perhaps, it brings a new meaning to 'seventhish'. It saddens me to learn that our 'Super Manager ' is so easily pleased. But then, he wouldn't want to upset these sensitive buggers, would he ?
Tony Abrahams
219 Posted 27/01/2020 at 19:15:02
No point in upsetting his players until he can do something about getting rid of them Derek, that wouldn’t make much sense, when he needs them to try and play for him.

I read something before about what Ancellotti, had been saying about his players, and it made loads and loads of sense to me. He treats them like adults, and he deals with them on an individual level, what more could you ask than that, if you was a serious footballer?

Geoff Lambert
220 Posted 27/01/2020 at 20:07:47
David 212
We have been very poor this season so far, yet we are only 10 points off champions league football.
the RS and City are miles ahead of everyone else. on the other hand we are only 7 points above the drop zone.
Steve Ferns
221 Posted 27/01/2020 at 21:38:26
Derek: "But then, he wouldn't want to upset these sensitive buggers, would he?"

What are you expecting? Carlo Ancelotti to be completely different to everything that's gone before and become some hardline task master?

Carlo Ancelotti has made his latter career precisely because he does not "upset these sensitive buggers". That is him in a nutshell. He is a very subtle worker. He will not fall out with anyone. He will not rant and rave. He will be positive. It will be annoying. But, he knows what he is doing. He will try to move on those he thinks he cannot get enough out of.

Don Alexander
222 Posted 27/01/2020 at 21:59:49
Darren (#192) you ARE in a tizz! Firstly I don't argue with anyone. I merely state my opinion without descending to denigrate other TWers on a personal basis who express their own different opinion, in the disappointing manner you do.

I never lambast our younger players but if they display persistent failings I think it's fair to comment on them. On Barkley I repeatedly praised aspects of his skill but eventually I, like many others, tired of his mysterious ability to NOT do the the right thing when he was in excellent positions to do so. The less said about his defending or manner of departure the better but he came across to me as being thick, and in a football-savvy sense too. The fact that he's now a regular bench-warmer for Chelsea, if that, speaks volumes to me.

On here I have repeatedly stated my high hopes for DCL, Mason and Tom, albeit the latter is not now progressing, in my opinion.

And being accused by you of all people as arguing for arguments sake is laugh out loud funny, but you even outdo yourself with your inferred claim in #192 that loyalty to TW would endure even if the behaviour of fans causes you to walk away from the club (see your own message at #171).

Keep 'em coming!

Mike Benjamin
223 Posted 27/01/2020 at 22:12:40
Kevin#216. What do you think about the value of Richarlison? Agree re: Gomes / Gbamin, though depends on how they recover from injury Moise Kean, for probably the first time, really showed some of what he could do. Signing Sidibe for the provisionally agreed £12m would be a steal.
Christine Foster
224 Posted 27/01/2020 at 22:15:54
Paste in any name you like but the argument or debate does not change, be it Davies, Holgate, DCL, Barkley, or any other home grown talent. The demand to compete at the top level with immediate impact is the problem, the ability to carry a young player until they can step up is impossible. The need to carry two or three in the same team and compete successfully is never going to happen..knives to a gunfight springs to mind.

In the Premier league to succeed every player and squad player has to be at the top of their game, every single one.. only in a man city, Chelsea or similar can players develop and fulfill their potential because they are blooded slowly, with players of outstanding ability beside them.

Not such luck with ourselves, every now and again we pluck a gem like Rooney or Barkley and we crucify them for leaving but the truth is just how is Tom Davies ever going to fulfil his potential plain alongside Morgan S or Delph? What can he learn?

The clamour for instant impact, for outstanding performance is too much to handle for them. We need to build a team that has built in success and an ability to blood until ready. We haven't had that in years. The Premier league elite have the best money can buy. They can blood youngsters at their le sure.

Carlos problem is building a good enough balance to compete and grow, with what he has at the moment the loses are and forever will be the youngsters.

Derek Thomas
225 Posted 27/01/2020 at 22:25:40
Steve Brown @196; Harsh on Walsh. Koeman signed or had a big say in half or more mentioned.
I distinctly remember him more or less holding the Board to ranson in the press over Schneiderlin. He brought Bolasie as a favour to keep Lukaku for one more season, they were big mates by all accounts.

He was the one driving the Sigurdsson deal...of whom we vastly overpaid. I can see him having a big say in Klassens and, off the back of the Euros, Williams too.

Walcott was all fat sams work.

I totally blame Koeman for setting this club back and for wasting irretrievable millions...and Moshiri for hiring the golfing dutchman.

Moshiri may have finally got lucky with hiring Brands and then got really lucky with having Ancelotti fall in his lap...even if Usmanov had to nudge him.

This season is another write off job. What with the Euros and a possible July start, I don't even want to qualify for the Thursday cup - This Season.

Rather, with a loan / try before you buy and /or a signing that actually works and is value for money now, plus good news by the end of April on the injury front.
I'd be happy if we were playing like we could make 5th if not for the bad start...

In racing terms, finally getting 'un-boxed in' at the back and storming up the outside, only the have the race finish a furlong ( 200m, 220 yds, one eigth of a mile, for our more younger, yank, overseas readers) too soon.

After this coming August window - then we see.

Oh, and a spade in the ground sometime soon at BMD would be good to.

Everton; bringing you false dawns since fuck knows when.

Steve Ferns
226 Posted 27/01/2020 at 22:34:04
Mike, what about the transfermarkt.com values: Link

To save you the bother, here is the list:
Digne - Signed for £18m - Value £31.5m
Bernard - Signed for free - Value £18m
Mina - Signed for £27m - Value £22.5m
Sidibe - option to buy for £13m - value £10.8m
Gomes - signed for £22.5m - value £25.2m
Gbamin - signed for £22.5m - value £25m
Iwobi - signed for -£27.4m - value £28.8m
Kean - signed for -£24.5m - value £28.8m
Delph - signed for £8.6m - valued at £13.5m

They do have some surprising valuations though:
Richarlison £54m
Pickford £31.5m
Keane £27.0m
Sigurdsson £25.2m
Calvert-Lewin £20m
Davies £16m
Walcott £13m
Schneiderlin £11m
Coleman £11m
Holgate £6.3m

If that were true, let's sell Keane, Sigurdsson, Walcott, and Schneiderlin and bank the £75m to spend on some decent players, never mind the saving on wages. They also have Tosun at £13.5m, Kenny at £11m, Bolasie at £5m, Sandro at £3.6m, Besic £2.7m, Dowell £2.7m, Pennington £0.9m, Garbutt £0.6m. If we sold our loan players for those values, then that's another £40m. Never going to happen though. Only Kenny and Tosun are possible and I want to keep Kenny and play him.

Kevin Prytherch
227 Posted 27/01/2020 at 23:00:29
Mike 223 - didn’t include Richarlison as he was blatantly Silvas signing.
Eddie Dunn
228 Posted 27/01/2020 at 23:11:42
Steve, Holgate is surely worth £30 million fro what I have seen this season.
Steve Ferns
229 Posted 27/01/2020 at 23:23:37
Eddie, he’s worth more than Michael Keane, that’s for sure!

Those figures aren’t mine, mate. Mine would be quite different and a few of our guys would be worth £0. To be fair to TransferMarkt some have not been updated since the summer and no doubt their values will fall come the end of the season.

Darren Hind
230 Posted 28/01/2020 at 06:29:13
Don Alexander.

I suspect you think other posters were born yesterday. Anyone who logs on to this site regularly, will be aware of the incessant bile directed by you at everything related to Finch farm. They will also know that you have no knowledge of the roles the people you slag off, because you have been asked repeatedly and you are unable to answer. . You just know they are "stealing a living".

This thread could be about you and thousands like you. You didnt just "start criticising" Barkley. You constantly hammered away at him with vindictive, spiteful jibes and they were nearly always personal. very rarely football related.
Barkley got himself a massive pay rise and despite battling against a series of injuries, he has still played 38 games for Chelsea in two years. He has won medals too. The fact that you think you are still in a position to slag him off says more about you than him.
He's moved on. The "thicko" has out-witted his abusers. He's gone to pastures new and has left you guys to your bitterness...Smart boy ? probably not, but he is clearly smarter than the average hater

Now its Tom's turn. If you REALLY want to understand the absurdity of the claims he is not good enough, you need only track back and see the comments from some of his detractors after he had scored one of the goals that secured a victory at Southampton a few short weeks ago.. or the way they sang his praises when he smashed one in to get us back in the game against Leicester recently. He's no world beater, but as Conor quite rightly points out, He has out performed the multi million pound signings (the ones you never attack) by some distance.
If we have a midfield player who has performed better or more consistently than Tom Davies. I would like one of those people who dismiss him as "championship" and "Not good enough" to come on here and tell us who it is.

BTW; Much as I enjoy posting on TW. You wont - as you (once again) falsely claim - see a post from me pledging my loyalty to this site. If I stop watching Everton. I stop posting on this or any other site. . Otherwise I will come across like those fools who constantly slag off any ex players working at FF without having a scooby of what they are talking about..

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