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Silva to be given Hammers game. Ten Hag in the wings?

| Tuesday, 08 October 2019 429comments  |  Jump to last
Marco Silva will be reportedly in charge for Everton's next Premier League fixture against West Ham United on Saturday week as speculation arises elsewhere that the club are looking at Ajax boss Erik ten Hag to replace him.

According to The Telegraph, the Blues hierarchy are concerned about the team's current form and Silva's ability to rectify it but they don't intend to make a change in the manager's hotseat before the home clash with the Hammers.

Jason Burt reports that, "Silva has met with Everton's majority shareholder Farhad Moshiri twice in the last few weeks and believes that the club will give him a little more time and there is certainly a will for him to succeed in what is the second year of a three-year contract."

Over at MailSport, Simon Jones claims that a board meeting is scheduled for tomorrow but that Farhad Moshiri backs Silva for now.

Meanwhile, the inevitable rumour-mongering over potential replacements should Silva get the boot at Goodison has begun, with Ten Hag emerging as an early candidate according to "exclusives" from 90Min and FotMob, while clickbait gossip site Football Insider claim that David Moyes is contention for the role.



Reader Comments (429)

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Joe McMahon
1 Posted 08/10/2019 at 14:27:49
Hag or Moyes. I think we need to move for Hag now before Spurs or Man Utd do.
Andrew Keatley
2 Posted 08/10/2019 at 14:33:57
Roll the dice please.
Kevin Molloy
3 Posted 08/10/2019 at 14:39:37
Please, the dutch chap must be one of the most coveted coaches in Europe, we will be doing well to persuade Moyes to pick up this cup of sick, let's just know our place for once eh
Michael Lynch
4 Posted 08/10/2019 at 14:41:34
If anyone is capable of convincing Ten Hag to come to Everton, surely it's Marcel Brands?

On the other hand, he'll probably turn out to be shit as soon as he gets to Goodison. Sigh.

Steve Ferns
5 Posted 08/10/2019 at 14:48:48
The problem with ten Hag, without drawing de Boer comparisons (3 consecutive league titles as opposed to 1), is that Ajax should win the league again and Ajax top their group in the Champions League. Why would ten Hag walk away from that now. If he wins the league again but comes short in the CL then an Everton level club will be an option in the summer. However, should he impress in the Champions League then a Man Utd level club (as in their current state rather than arguably the biggest club in Europe) would be an option.

Why would ten Hag gamble on Everton right now? Surely, he is best waiting until the end of the season, and the likes of Everton will still be an option then.

Which might be why Moyes is being talked about. Perhaps, Kenwright has Moyes lined up as a caretaker until the end of the season?

Tony Everan
6 Posted 08/10/2019 at 15:08:37
Someone who has been successful in the dutch league is a gamble. Is the dutch league much better than the scottish or greek one where Silva won every game as manager?

Erik Ten Hag may be the answer to our prayers, or he could do a FDBoer. It's risky.

Moyes is the past. The club needs to move on from that period, but maybe Steve is right. They will get him in as a caretaker for this season so no rash decisions need to be made.

At least the man can organise a team and a defence.

He will guide us to the fabled sunlit uplands of mid-table.

Jay Harris
7 Posted 08/10/2019 at 15:26:43
Ten Hag learned his football philosophy from working at Bayern when Guardiola was there. I think he would be a very interesting appointment but we know all about the standards in the Dutch league.
Steve Ferns
8 Posted 08/10/2019 at 15:34:15
Tony, but can he? I mean he certainly could for us. But for Sunderland? What about West Ham? Personally, and I did give Moyes more of a thumps up than a thumbs down for his time here, but I think the game has moved on, and he's yesterdays man. I also think that you should never go back, and that our better players will not listen to him. If he's a half season caretaker, then he's a lame duck and they could just wait him out. Especially the likes of Sigurdsson. I don't mean to question Sigurdsson's commitment because he puts the yards in, but salary wise, he's going nowhere. So if Moyes is in charge, and he doesn't like him, he knows he's still there when Moyes has gone, so he can wait him out. Now I think Sigurdsson is more committed than that, but others are not far behind him money wise, and they can do just that. To point an easy finger, Schneiderlin would be an example.
John Graham
9 Posted 08/10/2019 at 15:46:46
Ten Hag is nothing special and probably a step down from Silva.
Aged 49
Before Ajax he did nothing with Utrecht and before that was just average at Bayern 2.
As mentioned previously Ajax are expected to win the league most years and he has only been there just over a year so nothing to judge him on.
Seems to me that we just like wasting money without doing the work required to get the right man for the job.
Surely it would be better to look for an up an coming young manage in the 35 to 45 bracket or even try Silvas mate who is doing great back in Portugal
Tony Everan
10 Posted 08/10/2019 at 16:04:00
Steve, I don't want him back. He walked away, failed, and good luck to him for the future but not with Everton. However, If they do decide to bring him in as a caretaker I will support him and hope he does well. He will be going hell for leather to get the job on a longer term so I think that will partially mitigate any disgruntled players.

Yet again, I just want the right man in, we are a progressive club and we just need the right manager. I don't want us to choose the wrong man again, I'd rather wait and get the best quality manager available at the end of the season.

That's if we can't get one in now.

Knowing Everton we will probably beat West Ham 4-0 DCL getting a hattrick and Moise scoring in front of the Gwladys Street in the 88th minute to send the fans into raptures. Then we will go and beat Brighton 1-0 . Nothing is ever straightforward with our club !

Victor Yu
11 Posted 08/10/2019 at 16:27:49
If we have Moyes back, then I am 99.99% sure we will be relegated.
Brian Porter
12 Posted 08/10/2019 at 16:33:24
Why do we have to wait until after the West Ham game and potentially another three points down the drain? And, if we win? Does that make everything OK? No, defeat in our next away game will just set it all off again but more time and points will have been lost.

Get rid of the loser NOW,, before the next game.

John Graham
13 Posted 08/10/2019 at 16:48:27
How fickle we are.
Kieran Kinsella
14 Posted 08/10/2019 at 16:53:02
Silva has kind of set himself up here with his statement the West Ham game is a "must win." Doesn't leave much room for excuses around soft red cards, details, and moments.

As for Ten Haag, lots of De Boer comparisons but there's more ammo out there. Ronald Koeman for one was hardly a success. Brand's buddy Cocu is currently struggling at derby. Martin Jol started alright then rapidly went downhill at Spurs. Gullit's Newcastle spell effectively ended his career. Then more broadly we have our own Ducth track record: Atteveld, Drenthe, Shandy Andy, Klaasen. The only one halfway decent was Heitinga. So this rumor doesn't fill me with confidence.

Steve Ferns
15 Posted 08/10/2019 at 17:05:08
Kieran, I think it's (another) error of judgement. It sets him up for the inevitable, "well you didn't win, so will you resign question". It's a gamble, and all the gambles he's made this season have failed. It's a ballsy move, but I wish he was a bit more cautious at times.
Dave Williams
16 Posted 08/10/2019 at 17:07:24
John #12- fickle???
Have you seen the league table and which teams have beaten us???
This is serious and will become a crisis if we lose to West Ham and Brighton.
I don’t think the supporters can be accused of anything other than genuine concern for the club they love.
Soren Moyer
17 Posted 08/10/2019 at 17:15:00
Why not Allegri!? Proven quality manager.
Steve Ferns
18 Posted 08/10/2019 at 17:18:02
No doubt about that soren. But he will think he’s too good for us. He will have his eye on Man Utd and spurs.
Tom Bowers
19 Posted 08/10/2019 at 17:20:45
Not sure about a Dutch manager as the Erevidisie is not on a par with the Prem. and Ajax much like Celtic have very little worthwhile opposition in any given season so it make sit quite inevitable they will always be at the top of the league or thereabouts.
Personally I wouldn't mind a German, how about Klopp ? Just joking.
Kieran Kinsella
20 Posted 08/10/2019 at 17:21:51
Soren

Allegri would be a gamble. Due to money from CL participation under his predecessors, and financial calamities at Inter, AC, Roma, he pretty much had a free run in Serie A. I was surprised they fired him but presumably like various PSG managers, they felt domestic success in an uncompetitive league was not enough. Other questions would be, can he speak English well? And would Everton appeal or his he waiting on UTD, Chelsea etc. if he failed at Everton he’s finished in England. If he failed at say Chelsea or UTD he might get another shot as Moyes and Villas Boas did. So I think he’d pass on Everton

Steve Ferns
21 Posted 08/10/2019 at 17:25:15
Kieran. He lives in London. He moved here to learn the language and wait for a top job. That was meant to be arsenal. Couldn’t see it myself as he’s far too defensive.
Derek Knox
22 Posted 08/10/2019 at 17:27:34
The more I think about it, and it won't be popular with many of our supporters. I believe that the new target Manager will be in the Summer and they will employ David Moyes as a firefighter manager with a six month contract, similar to the contract he had at West Ham to avoid relegation and finish as high as possible.

The target Manager I think may be Ten Hag, depending on how Ajax finish both in the Eredivisie and the CL, but there may be a higher profile one in the pipeline.

Adrian evans
23 Posted 08/10/2019 at 17:28:18
The Premier League is like no other and a new manager with no experience of it could struggle.
Would den Hag come with a No 2,like Silva and Sousa.
Sousa leaves and now sits on top of Portugues Div 1 with Femalcao just promoted.
So we know who the brains behind that partnership is??.
Den Hag with Unsworth maybe.???
But I bet he comes as a package of give.

Eddie Howe and his team,proven if he wants the challenge,the project to bring silverware,champions league,or Jose, if he want the challenge and to prove to everyone what he is capable of.His pride hurt, so maybe Everton might offer him a road to salvation.Win a Premier League,a Champions League, FA Cup ???Then retire.

No guarantee's and it takes time.Look at Klop

Mike Gaynes
24 Posted 08/10/2019 at 17:29:22
John #9, "nothing to judge him on"??

Did you happen to see any of Ajax's performances in the CL? They crushed Real in Madrid and beat Juve away. I LOVE the way that club plays against top competition. Confidence, flair, fearlessness. And solid defensively despite regularly losing their best defenders to bigger clubs.

I agree with Steve that it seems like an unlikely move for the guy, but if he's interested, I say huzzah and make sure to have him bring Ziyech with him.

Joe McMahon
25 Posted 08/10/2019 at 17:30:04
I don't know for sure, but those comparing to De Boer, I think he was sacked after 4 games, and Zaha was injured for all those games.
John Graham
26 Posted 08/10/2019 at 17:37:13
Dave
We lost two of our most influential players at the end of last season. At the time we were playing our best football in years.
Brought in a replacement who is now injured so too early to judge,Fabian Delph who had a call up to the national team, a right back who has just been called up to his national team and a young forward who is just lacking in confidence.
Granted we should have got a centre back and another centre forward but Brands couldn’t work his magic.
This is a time to get behind the manager and team with our support.
Our most successful manager ( Howard Kendal ) was on the edge of being sacked just before he got together our great side of the eighties and was only saved by an Adrian Heath goal.
It’s early in the season he needs more time and support as do the players. We can’t be changing the manager ever few games just because of a few bad results at the beginning of a season
Kieran Kinsella
27 Posted 08/10/2019 at 17:45:23
John Graham,

There's truth in what you say, but maybe you or someone else can enlighten me. I have oft heard about Kendall almost getting sacked. I was 5 or 6 at the time so don't remember. What was the problem with team before the sudden turn around? was it injuries, tactics, individual errors, players out of form? I am genuinely curious. My worry with Silva is principally his failure to address our massive Achilles heel. That seems to me something that could be easily address by him (if he wanted) or by A N Other.

Steve Ferns
28 Posted 08/10/2019 at 17:51:40
John, he also failed spectacularly at inter Milan. Mike Gaynes will confirm how he’s doing in MLS, but I heard he struggled early on.

De Boer was my choice for Everton. I thought he’d be great. He was a top player, supposedly a great young coach, would come with his twin in toe and add some glamour to our touchline (remember this was pre-Koeman and moshiri declaring him a Hollywood manager). I would hope de Boer can bounce back and I think he’s still a good coach and hope he gets the chance to prove it at the top level again.

Also mike, is his twin with him in America?

John Graham
29 Posted 08/10/2019 at 17:55:57
Kieran

When Kendal was first manager he brought in about 15 players.
Then he swapped and changed his team looking for the right style for the players and the right team.
We were on the edge of going out of the league cup to I think Plymouth when Heath scored late on.
Over the next few games we got a settled team and their confidence grew.
Just shows how things can change so fast.
I’m not saying Silva is going to have the same type of run or if he is the right man for us but he deserves more time.

Kieran Kinsella
30 Posted 08/10/2019 at 17:57:28
John

Thanks for the insight. That makes sense as it's always difficult when you have so many new players arriving at once.

Mark Guglielmo
31 Posted 08/10/2019 at 17:59:22
Brian @11, that's all well and good, but what's the solution you would propose? Me personally? I feel that we have a disjointed side comprised of players bought under the last 2-3 regimes. Brands saw this too or we wouldn't have 7-ish new players who start or are first subs.

Get rid of Walcott, Schneiderlin, Coleman, Sigurdsson and create a team that works together. Right now, we're an island of misfit toys. Which manager do you have in mind that would fix that?

Steve Ferns
32 Posted 08/10/2019 at 18:01:51
Silva is also stuck with a load of players like Niasse, Sandro and others who we have to pay but don’t deserve to play.

There’s also players like Sigurdsson, Pickford Schneiderlin, Keane, Walcott, Coleman, and Tosun who he does play, but are on big money and Pickford aside are difficult to sell. How many of these would silva have signed. How many is he stuck with and having to make the best of.

I think Sigurdsson is a problem for him. But I’m starting to think I’m wrong about that because he keeps failing to take action when he has the chance and when Sigurdsson drops out he keeps the Sigurdsson role. And on his past history, this makes no sense.

Steve Ferns
33 Posted 08/10/2019 at 18:05:21
John, didn’t Kendall arrive in 1981 and in 1984 we were at the bottom of the league, before recovering to mid table and won the cup.

I say that as my uncle said I was a glory hunter as my first season ended with me watching us win the cup, but my dad said we were bottom of the league when he first took me. I have no idea as I was only 5.

Jon Withey
34 Posted 08/10/2019 at 18:06:22
Get the feeling that Moyes has had his time now - he's turned into an Allardyce who somebody will pick up in January if their results are poor. Could that be us ? I guess we'll see how bad it gets by then.

A manager and his staff are so important - we've messed it up 4 times since Moyes (I don't include him, he bought some respect back to the club).

This chopping and changing of managers and mercenary players used to be something that other clubs did - it's sad to see us in that routine.

It's not just the manager, we should be assessing assistant coaches and specialist coaches too to try and get back to some sort of quality footballing structure.

Do I have the answer ? Nope - getting a manager seems to be much more of a gamble than building a squad.

Drew O'Neall
35 Posted 08/10/2019 at 18:20:53
No half arse appointments please.

If we’re tossing up whether to take a risk on some no mark from Holland then we may as well keep Silva in place, at least for now.

We’re not getting relegated and maybe Brands can get into him. If not we can use the time and pay off money to get a winner in.

Rob Dolby
36 Posted 08/10/2019 at 18:22:55
People can forget about Alegri or Den Haag or anyone else managing in the champions League.

Moshiri whilst throwing money at the club hasn't exactly gone above and beyond. Most clubs are spending similar amounts on players.

If Moshiri was serious we would have been on a different level by now. Shopping at Harrods as opposed to Sainsbury's. That is also is a reflection in the managerial appointments.

I expect when Silva does get the boot probably after we are out of the league cup that we appoint a Cocu, Javier Garcia or similar.

I just don't have faith in the people running the club to make the right appointment.

The jury is out with Brands, the acid test for him is the next managerial appointment.

John Pierce
37 Posted 08/10/2019 at 18:23:51
As usual the prospective candidates are up and coming ideologues and will be a very big gamble. We’ve appointed from Preston, Wigan, Southampton, unattached & Watford since we appointed Smith from Rangers.

Moyes got lucky because we had no ambition and were skint, he got free reign. The rest have at best average records where ever they’ve come from. The premier league is so hard to get the balance right between your intended style and how much your have to comprise to get results to buy you time.

I see little value in appointing anyone without a ‘serious record’ with clubs better than Everton in leagues that matter; England, Spain, Germany & Italy. It will be a gamble but a lesser one than a coach with potential, it smacks of getting it done on the cheap. So far it’s been a failure.

It’s so very hard to introduce an idealist, an inexperienced coach when the club is in a trough, similarly tough picking a youngster when the team are rock bottom. The environment has to be conducive.

The next guy has to be canny enough to move a talented but flawed squad up a very poor league, which can be done. Sadly I think Brands will push another Martinez, Silva on to us as he can control those guys. He won’t go near a Mourinho or Benitez because they are too large a character for him.

Sad times.

Bill Gall
38 Posted 08/10/2019 at 18:24:30
Kieran #26 Read about H.Kendall on Wikipedia and get a full story on his career,both as player and manager. The best English midfielder that wasn't capped by England
Mike Gaynes
39 Posted 08/10/2019 at 18:25:15
Steve #27, de Boer has Atlanta back in the MLS playoffs, but they don't look as dominant as they did in winning the title last season. Very inconsistent. How much of that is de Boer's fault is open to debate -- the club sold its playmaker Almiron to Newcastle and has had a rough ride with injuries. But he certainly doesn't look like a top manager to me.

Ronald de Boer isn't with him... he's actually an assistant to Ten Hag at Ajax and would presumably be a candidate for that position if Ten Hag comes here. Which I doubt -- agree with Rob Dolby that no CL manager is likely to find us attractive.

Mike Doyle
40 Posted 08/10/2019 at 18:26:04
John #28] Adrian Heath’s late equaliser away at Oxford in the League Cup is often held up as the game that triggered an upturn in form the lead to the LC Final (lost replay to LFC) and FA cup Final win over Watford.
However as recall our indifferent form of the first part of the season had already improved- we won the 2 away league games before Oxford and had enjoyed some other bright moments e.g winning away at Old Trafford. The key change though - was the recent arrival of Andy Gray and midfield excellence of Peter Reid - two guys who didn’t like losing and were not intimidated. How the current side could do with characters like those 2.
Kieran Kinsella
41 Posted 08/10/2019 at 18:26:28
Bill lol good timing. I was just on wiki checking up on him. I really only remember the 86 Cup final onwards so I am filling in the blanks
John Graham
42 Posted 08/10/2019 at 18:29:53
Cheers Mike
Wasn’t sure of my facts but just knew it was a bit of a struggle at first but then just clicked
Bill Gall
43 Posted 08/10/2019 at 18:31:24
Kieran I was lucky seen him play from when he first signed for Everton until he left. Kendall, Ball, Harvey. Never see anything better than that.
Mike Doyle
44 Posted 08/10/2019 at 18:38:05
No problem John. 83/84 was my last season still living in Liverpool before moving South, thus I remember it pretty well. Saw a lot of games that season and even some of those we lost Pre-Xmas included good performances - a world away from the rubbish currently being served up.
Tony Everan
45 Posted 08/10/2019 at 18:41:25
I think we have bought too many players all at once the last 3 summers since selling Lukaku, trying to bed them in and settle them into a system and integrate with their teammates. When we should be buying one top quality make a difference player, and breaking the bank for that quality, going all out for him. Such players inspire the mediocre ones and the ones who have lost their way a bit, those worker bees can come to life.

Look at Chelsea with their summer transfer ban, they look more of a close knit team than most of the league because of it.

Mike Doyle
46 Posted 08/10/2019 at 18:46:10
Bill. I recall watching HK turning out in a testimonial match (not 100% sure but I think it was for Mick Lyons). I think he was player-manager for Blackburn at the time and in his mid-late 30s. but he was still the best player on the pitch!
Kieran Kinsella
47 Posted 08/10/2019 at 18:49:46
Bill

You're lucky. The only legends I ever saw play "in the flesh" were Southall, Watson and Sheedy. The latter of whom I saw play just once. I've seen some other good players Kanchelskis, Ferguson, Cahill, Limpar etc play at Goodison but I can't call them "legends" if that category includes the likes of Dixie Dean and the 80s team.

Paul Hewitt
48 Posted 08/10/2019 at 18:52:19
I will say it only once. Get RAFA BENiTEZ.
Dave Williams
49 Posted 08/10/2019 at 19:06:21
John
I accept he has been unlucky with Gomes and Gbamin injured but his selections of players who are either woefully substandard or out of form bothers me. He persists in playing Siggy who is contributing nothing and the style of play ie. don’t pass forwards unless you have to and make sure you move the ball slowly is dreadful to watch.
It’s all about opinions and I respect yours but for me our current position, team selection, team attitude and style of play causes me very serious concern which I don’t think is an overreaction.
If I am misjudging him and he turns it around I will be delighted.
Martin Berry
50 Posted 08/10/2019 at 19:11:09
I cant see Silva being in charge by the end of the month because we will lose the next game if he does not change his tactics and stop repeating the same failings.
Moyes is a cert as the stop gap as he can organise us to stop shipping goals which will be the first consideration by the hierachy.
Interestingly there appears to be a flood of money for him IF you believe sky bet ?
If he can now upgrade his weapons to a gunfight he may even get the job permanently however he will need to make sure we win games not just play safe which was his undoing to some degree with the fans.
I expect Benitez to be our next manager which some will favour and others will sour due to his Liverpool connections.
Steve Ferns
51 Posted 08/10/2019 at 19:12:32
Dave, can you see similarities from the current style of play to that under Koeman and Martinez. The slow sideways passing is scared players. That's not coming from the manager. You don't need me to tell you what Silva at his best is, you've seen it at the back end of last season. It's quick and energetic and direct. The current style of play is the opposite. Has Silva changed his tactics or are the players scared to make a mistake? Are the players now trying to play to statistics? Didn't Schneiderlin post a 95% pass completion rate against Burnley? That tells you a lot about how he played. The guy is a very good passer of the ball, but if his pass completion rate is about 85% then it usually shows he played well and tried to make things happen, when it's around 95% it shows how crap he played and that he was hiding, even in possession.
Len Hawkins
52 Posted 08/10/2019 at 19:40:17
Howard Kendall gave Rod Stewart a few games under the alias of Alan Biley.
Kieran Kinsella
53 Posted 08/10/2019 at 19:49:27
Schneiderlin would have been a great rugby player with his sideways and backwards passes.
Bill Gienapp
54 Posted 08/10/2019 at 19:52:02
Not sure why people automatically have faith in Moyes as a caretaker. A lot has changed since he was here. He did an utterly miserable job at Sunderland - yes, they were bad and likely going down no matter what, but he didn't inspire the slightest flicker of fight or belief in that team. Three matches into the season, he was moping about during his post-match press conference, resigned to being in "a relegation fight." Yeah, inspiring stuff. And his West Ham stint, if anything, was even more underwhelming than Allardyce's mercifully brief time in charge with us.
Danny Broderick
55 Posted 08/10/2019 at 20:04:12
That’s not true Bill. He did a good job at West Ham. His last game there was a 3-0 victory against us in Allardyce’s last game, and they looked a good side that day. He got the best out of Arnautovic in particular.

I haven’t really got an opinion on who we should employ as manager while Silva is still in the chair - it’s not going to happen while he is still in a job. But Moyes would be a safe job, at least until the end of the season, if the job comes up. He’d at least stop the goals we are conceding at set pieces!

Kieran Kinsella
56 Posted 08/10/2019 at 20:05:44
Bill 52

I know it's depressing. The return of Moyes or "Moynes" as some on here call him is less exciting than the second coming of Peter Beagrie in 1998. It's just an unimaginative, resort to type, default position for a lot of people. I assume Kenwright is behind it. The bookies aren't very imaginative but I suspect Kenwright is in Moshiri's ear with a "I told you so," and leaking rumors that Moyes will be back.

Phillip Warrington
57 Posted 08/10/2019 at 20:14:55
The trouble with Everton is we are Everton. Let's face it, look at the managers we have managed to convince to take the challenge in the past 5 years. Apart from Ronald Koeman, they managed teams who got relegated or they were sacked.
Steve Ferns
58 Posted 08/10/2019 at 20:31:41
Bill, Moyes turned up at Everton and hailed us the People's Club. He tapped into the fans' feeling and started a brand of optimism and got us going again. Overall, he did a more than reasonable job, having left us better than he found us, but stayed a bit too long as he never delivered a trophy.

Contrast his first day here to his first day at Sunderland. first thing he said, before a ball was even kicked, was the relegation word. So at Everton he galvanised the fans and gave us optimism by some words that did not actually promise anything but implied pride in the club. Whereas at Sunderland he gave them pessimism. He could have come in and said, they were fantastic the way they finished the season and that if they played like that every week they'd be midtable or even higher. Give the fans and players some optimism and belief.

Moyes is a weary old soul. He's a pessimist now. The swashbuckler who arrived at Everton was a different man on leaving us, then a solid defensive manager. His reputation has been destroyed by every job since.

What was Moyes good at? Fitness innovations and defensive organisation that gave his better teams a chance to play good football, if the conditions were right and he'd allow it. Well the fitness innovations are dated. Every club is beyond those now. Moyes is no longer an innovator in that regard. His tactics are old and tired, like him. If he comes in, he'd need more energy, hunger, and fresh ideas. I didn't see anything at West Ham to show he could do that.

So, thank you Moyes, you did your job first time round, but we don't want you back. We weren't good enough for you in 2013, and now you are not good enough for us. Ta ra.

Paul Tran
59 Posted 08/10/2019 at 20:33:25
I remember going to Stoke for the 3rd round FA Cup game in 1984. Many Blues talking about it being Howard's last game. Same in the first two Gillingham games - I'll always be grateful for Big Nev out-psyching Cascarino in extra time!

If Moyes comes back I'll spontaneously combust! Lazy paper talk based on our mawkish sentimentality. Same with Ten Hag - he's Dutch, Brands is Dutch. By the way, if you want to cherry-pick Dutch managers, I'll give you Hiddinck and Van Gaal, who both won trophies here. Steve, Ten Hag might choose us over Utd because they're a bigger mess than we are at the moment. I also rate Cocu, who made a shocking mistake going to Palace.

The big thing here will be the players' response against West Ham. I suspect that will seal Silva's fate, unless they've already made the decision.

Interesting times ahead.

Alan Johnson
60 Posted 08/10/2019 at 20:36:24
Really think we need a British manager. Can't take a chance of a foreigner. Need someone who knows the prem well. EDDIE HOWE👍

Derek Knox
61 Posted 08/10/2019 at 20:36:28
Ten Hag, or Rag, Tag, or Bobtail, would be an upgrade on Silva.
Dave Williams
62 Posted 08/10/2019 at 20:46:51
Steve- you mention the need for Moyes to have innovation, energy, hunger and fresh ideas. I agree and it would be a huge risk to take him but I don’t see any of those virtues in Silva- not one.
Steve Ferns
63 Posted 08/10/2019 at 20:50:13
Well that’s where we differ Dave. I saw plenty of ideas in the last home game.
Alex Kay
64 Posted 08/10/2019 at 21:00:18
Do not bring Moyes back he is a natural born loser nothing at Preston. Everton, Man U, Sociadad, Sunderland, West Ham, he took 30 million from us in wages, returning won't work remember Howard this would make us a bigger laughing stock than we are.
David Pearl
65 Posted 08/10/2019 at 21:01:13
Steve, yes l saw a different formation and it seemed to work once the players stopped being shithouses. Unfortunately he reverted to type against Burnley.

I wouldn't be as against Moynes coming back as many are. As long as its on a short term deal. There is talent in our squad, for whomever can find it.

Another fine mess Stanley. This should of been our year. I still believe we are only a couple players and a decent manager away from making a charge at the top 4/6. Its not too late... but if its Silva he has to put together his streak right now and keep it. Will he persist with what he believes is his best formation?? I think he will. Urgh l hate these international breaks.

John Keating
66 Posted 08/10/2019 at 21:09:06
Over the various threads we have mentioned some really big names to replace Silva
Surely right now we need someone to stabilise us and immediately stop the rot

At this point of the season I doubt many acceptable named managers are not available.
Temporarily might be best with Unsworth
Mind you I see Barnslley and Sunderland have binned their managers. Either have to be an improvement on our charismatic Iberian

Jon Withey
67 Posted 08/10/2019 at 21:30:29
Benitez would make us most of a laughing stock - that's even more desperate than Allardyce and Sammy Lee.

That said, difficult to know where to look - Dyche ? Howe ?

Some evidence of consistency would be nice.

Pochettino would be great if hes falling out with Levy.

I'm disappointed about Silva - I figured we'd struggle defensively but I thought he'd sorted that out and we carried enough of a goal threat to be doing better than we are.

I'm so fed up with seeing Schneiderlin playing for Everton - maybe he isn't to blame but I just associate him with losing now.

Chris Hockenhull
68 Posted 08/10/2019 at 21:44:00
Steve (8)...”Our better players will not listen to him”..????Wtf??...what “better players?”...Who exactly who are they?? Because that’s the bloody problem...pleasing themselves when they feel like? How fkn dare they..tell that to the loyal travellers up and down the land. Some will always find an excuse for the shite shutters and prims Donbas...that’s why we’ve had seem less centuries of underachieving..If they won’t listen...f!!k them off!! Enough now
Simon Kennedy
69 Posted 08/10/2019 at 21:45:53
How does everyone feel about Massimiliano Allegri? Juve played a lovely, solid, foot-balling game under him; strong in defence & attack and great to watch. He’d be my number 1 choice.

Fran Mitchell
70 Posted 08/10/2019 at 21:49:47
ten Hag would be a statement - you can compare to other dutch managers, but none did nor have done what he did last year with Ajax. The way they performed against the best in Europe - with a young team - no fear, progressive football, and with results.

It may not work out - there are no guarantees, but it is about as good as we could hope for (if it is realistic - a chance he wouldn't even consider us - hopefully Brands can work his charm).

Anyone whose name is not Marco Silva would be progress.

Chris Hockenhull
71 Posted 08/10/2019 at 21:53:43
And while I’m having my penny worth...why’s “Jump to the Last” not working. ???aghhhhhh!!!!
Rob Marsh
72 Posted 08/10/2019 at 22:00:27
Andrew Keatley # 2

"Roll the Dice"

Good way of putting it, but this time around it doesn't seem like such a gamble to me at least.

We've already rolled the dice three times including Silva and we might not get sixes this throw, but there's a good chance we'll at least come up with more than the ones we're getting now.

Rob Marsh
73 Posted 08/10/2019 at 22:08:22
Steve Ferns # 5

I think Brands would convince him that at a UTD level club you're never that far away from having your throat cut by the board. Whereas, EFC will be a better fit with much more patience and he (Brands) there to protect him.

The only downside to this is that he could be as bad as the last 3 managers and we can't get rid because he's Brands mate?

Kieran Kinsella
74 Posted 08/10/2019 at 22:11:45
Rob

That would be a weak argument from Brands if he’s saying it after sacking Silva hot in the heels of Sam and Koeman

Dave Williams
75 Posted 08/10/2019 at 22:18:53
Steve- David Pearl has answered for me! The City performance was better- not great but better- then we had that awful reversion to type against Burnley!
We must agree to differ on Marco and the beers are on me if he pulls us round!
Dave McDowell
76 Posted 08/10/2019 at 22:20:30
Mike #46 when Howard joined us as manager from Blackburn in 81 he actually came as player manager. I was only a kid when I saw him in late sixties until he left so it was great to see him back wearing the royal blue shirt in 81. He only played a few games for us that season but I always remember his first touch being mint, total control, he was only in his mid 30s (you forget how young he was to be Everton manager) but a proper old school pro. He must have thought he couldn’t continue doing both roles so he decided to hang up his illustrious jersey to focus on becoming our greatest manager, although I tip my cap to Harry as well.
Clarence Yurcan
77 Posted 08/10/2019 at 22:22:13
It's amazing to me that people still dismiss someone coming from the Dutch league because "the level of competition." Did you not see Ten Hag and Ajax come 1 second away from making the Champions League final last season. Did you not see them beat Real Madrid at the Bernabeu 4-1? Or be one of only 2 teams all season to win at the Juventus Stadium? How's that for level of competition, you naysaying fuckers?
Christy Ring
78 Posted 08/10/2019 at 22:23:05
As Kieran @56 said, it sounds like a Kenwright story, and he still has an input. As Steve said, Moyes did a superb job when he came from Preston, with pittance spending money from Bill, but the way he left, left a sour taste.

Steve talks about the great football played at the end of last season by Silva. Gueye and Zouma were a huge part of that, but also, a lot of teams had switched off, ready for holidays. Remember against Man Utd, be honest, they were embarrassing.

In the last four losses, Silva hasn't changed the formation, tactics or game plan. That tells me, what's he going to do different now? NOTHING!!! He has no Plan B.

James Marshall
79 Posted 08/10/2019 at 22:23:22
Silva has never struck me as the sort of bloke who instills much inspiration into a player. He's diminutive, dour, dull, boring to listen to, never smiles, never shows any personality or drive when he speaks, and his teams seem to reflect that when you watch them.

We're dire to watch, lacking any inspiration at all and the results reflect our lack of inspired football.

Aren't managers meant to instil belief and inspire their charges? Maybe he's completely different behind the scenes, but I find that extremely difficult to envisage.

I'd give him the West Ham game, and if things are no different, give the job to the tea lady. It can't be any more insipid that watching a Silva team.

Tony Abrahams
80 Posted 08/10/2019 at 22:33:41
Some cracking rumours doing the rounds at the minute, but I'm not sure they are true though. Especially because Big Dunc was supposed to be having a go at Calvert-Lewin for missing chances against Burnley, which is definitely not true.
Shaun McGough
81 Posted 08/10/2019 at 22:57:03
Jose Mourinho and whatever club doctor/physio he wants.
Kieran Kinsella
82 Posted 08/10/2019 at 23:00:59
James 78

Your second sentence perfectly describes Kenny Dalglish. He was as dour and miserable a diminutive sod as ever there was but he didn’t do too badly.

Tom Bowers
83 Posted 08/10/2019 at 23:14:35
Sigurdsson is an average player who scored some nice goals which projected him into the limelight but he went downhill at Spurs and Everton got soaked when buying him. He has scored a few decent goals for Everton but generally has been a big disappointment much like Walcott who went downhill at Arsenal.

Call me crazy but why not go for a proven winner in Gareth Bale who wants out from Real Madrid. Yes, he would cost a lot but we have players who can be moved on to recuperate some of the cost.

As for the rumours about Moyes returning, forget it. He won nothing here and has made a fortune since leaving and accomplishing absolutely nothing wherever he has gone.

I quite like Eddie Howe who has done great at the Vitality with a bunch of no-name players who play fast open football and look like they enjoy playing for him.

Andy Crooks
84 Posted 08/10/2019 at 23:34:21
Steve @ 58, if the idea of appointing Moyes needed booted into touch, you have booted it. Really good post. The Sergeant Major coach has gone; players just dismiss them. Back in the day, fear belonged to players, now it is coaches. Average players destroy good coaches.
Jamie Crowley
85 Posted 08/10/2019 at 23:47:33
I've been waiting for TW to throw a name out there, that I'd not thought of.

My knowledge of European football is poor. I've time in my life for one club and one league.

But I've watched Ajax in the CL last season, and oh my word were they an absolute blast to watch.

I'd be completely for this, if we can pull it off.

Msgr. Brands surely will have contacts and know this fella? Earn your corn Marcel.

Plus, a name like Ten Hag makes me think of some massive, kick-ass viking or death lord. Sounds like some god with a massive broad axe and angel's wings, but black and dark.

That's my litmus test. Bring him in.

Ten Hag, Lord of the Footy, destroy our enemies before us.

Jamie Crowley
86 Posted 08/10/2019 at 23:50:52
All these people knocking the fact he's from the Everdise?

Isn't Ajax the team that played stupid good football the last few years, with a bunch of kids, and barn-stormed the Champions League?

I'll have some of that, thank you very much.

Jesus, fickle indeed!

Or, we could just plod along with Marco, playing the ball down the sides, creating little to nothing.

Bring the Lord of Footy Death!

Jamie Crowley
87 Posted 08/10/2019 at 23:55:07
Hat-trick of posts.. . .

I keep thinking of Ozzy's Iron Man, and substituting Ten Hag.

I AM TEN HAG!

I really need to leave work.

Tony Twist
88 Posted 08/10/2019 at 23:57:45
Ten hag, hmmm, I am not getting a warm fuzzy feeling about that choice. Flavour of the month manager. We want a competent manager, no experience of premier league, coming in to manage a shambles of a club, I am concerned about the thought process that came to the conclusion that the ideal candidate for the post of Everton coach is Ten Hag. If there is any truth in this then I truly dispair.
Andrew Lum
89 Posted 08/10/2019 at 00:02:36
Steve @51, that is the puzzling thing to me. The pressing and movement from last season is gone. Are the players not fit enough?

Silva is the manager. If the players are hiding or not playing to plan, he should drop them. But he stuck with the same midfield of Delph, Schniederlin and Sigurdsson for four consecutive games. And the result is the same slow, ponderous and predictable football.

David Pearl
90 Posted 08/10/2019 at 00:02:38
The money these kids are on is... well absurd, disgusting... The only saving grace is they are mostly quite young enough to have them still believe in the Big Dunc hiding under their bed. Silva is more like a big brother to them. I think Brands commands respect.

Non of us want or wanted to see Silva fail. It doesn't matter who is right and who is wrong. I knew after one game Koeman wouldn't work. It took 3-5 games with Silva. We need galvanising. Personally, l need to believe in Father Christmas and the Tooth Fairy again.

What Moyes did first time around taking us from 15th to Europe was miraculous but he hit a wall due mainly to finances, I'd have him back short term... but it doesn't normally work second time around. He'd do better than Silva but long term we really need a new fresh direction that we can all feel excited about and get behind.

We need to be united. But not that Utd (cuz they is full of shit, shit and more shit). We have another 10 days of this before we see what the reaction is. I've promised myself not to keep reacting to ToffeeWeb postings. I keep doing the same old shit (just like Silva), l can't help myself.

Steve Ferns
91 Posted 09/10/2019 at 00:14:17
Andrew, the pressing is there. People go on about the same tactics, but its different tactics for different teams.

Against the likes of Man City, who destroy you with lightning fast counters, Silva employed a pressing retreat. You slow the opposition down and block off the passing lanes and force them to pass back or sideways and we recover shape. Only then pressing properly in our own half. We've done this before, against Chelsea for example.

Then there is the full-on press, high up the pitch. We did this against Bournemouth and we did it very well for most of the first half. They coughed up possession. But we can only play this way against certain teams.

Where we have struggled is the likes of Burnley, Sheff Utd, Aston Villa, and Crystal Palace. All of these teams let us have the ball. None of them attacked us. So if they sit deep, we cannot press them. You can only press a team that has the ball. Instead these teams sat deep, and beat us on the counter. West Ham are an opportunity to press as they try and play football, Brighton away too.

I expect to beat Brighton as I think they are made for Silva's Everton, but so are Bournemouth and we just shot ourselves in the foot there.

Alan J Thompson
92 Posted 09/10/2019 at 05:59:01
Ten Hag...sounds more like a coven.

Hubble,bubble, toil and trouble could be the remedy.
Tongue of lizard, an on-field leader or the halftime gee up?
Wing of bat, we've looked at more wingers than we have room for.

Unfortunately, it may only mean the return of the Scottish Macbeth.

Joe McMahon
93 Posted 09/10/2019 at 08:13:12
David @90, if your man Moyes is gonna come then we have to get there first before the only other interested party, Stoke City.
Trevor Peers
94 Posted 09/10/2019 at 08:39:24
It's Moyes until the summer or carry on with this clown as I see it. They will be the only options on the table soon. Unless Wenger fancies the job.

We need to start winning a few football matches and regain our pride before we have any chance of attracting a better manager. Hopefully Moyes would bring back some stability he's in the unique position of knowing how this crazy club works after all.

Salim Rehman
95 Posted 09/10/2019 at 08:46:01
I don't want Howe or Dyche, they haven't done anything exceptional, Bournemouth are already out of the EFL cup losing 2-0 to Burton, and Burnley lost 0-3 to Sunderland, and you want these guys to take Everton forward? Everyone is talking about how poor the Dutch league is it's on par with the Scottish league etc, Sir Alex came from the Scottish league (Aberdeen) Wenger came from Japanese league (Nayoga Grampus Eight) and look how successful they were, for me it's got to be Rafa or Jose, maybe try Allegri, if not the Ten Haag or if we want someone and we must give them time then Arteta or Viera.
Denver Daniels
96 Posted 09/10/2019 at 09:04:26
I'd rather stick with Silva than have that coward loser back. Or give Unsworth a decent run in the job.
Steve Brown
97 Posted 09/10/2019 at 09:21:22
Moyes's methods were of their time, but are a decade out of date - they didn't even work then as we won nothing, so the idea of bringing him back makes no sense. Ten Hag needs to prove himself in England, Italy, Spain or France but I would prefer the experiment happens elsewhere thanks.

Before Martinez, Koeman and Silva were hired, we had the opportunity to go for a top manager in one of those four leagues, who has regularly qualified for the Champions League and ideally won a trophy in the last five years. That is the level of manager who will help us make the next step, not the likes of Howe, Dyche in the UK or a Ten Hag in Europe. Liverpool pitched for Klopp and got him and never looked back. It would be a step forward if we tried to avoid hiring managers from suffered relegation with teams they have managed. Doing that is just plain stupid.

Tony Everan
98 Posted 09/10/2019 at 09:29:52
I don't think they've given up on Marco Silva just yet. A win against West Ham and Brighton and they may give him time.
Trevor Peers
99 Posted 09/10/2019 at 10:08:31
Denver @96
I'm not advocating a Moyes return I just think that's what will happen, there's no evidence that Unsworth will be offered the job again or that he'd take it.
James Newcombe
100 Posted 09/10/2019 at 12:19:08
Moyes did a great job first time around, no doubt. However he has failed at every job since – Manchester United, Real Sociedad, he took Sunderland down, and only Zola has a worse win ratio than him as West Ham manager. Honestly, I think we might as well stick with Silva.
Tom Bowers
101 Posted 09/10/2019 at 12:34:33
Come on, guys!! Moyes… really???

He left a job at Goodison in which he, to be honest, achieved little in 11 years, for the bigger job at Man Utd and failed miserably... and has failed ever since — nuff said!

Jerome Shields
102 Posted 09/10/2019 at 12:34:38
Bringing Moyes back would be a step backwards.

It would be welcomed within the Club, because it would secure them in their comfortable positions. For anyone who wants the Club to move forward or the fans, he would be unwelcome, becoming increasingly so if he got the position.

Moyes seems to have learnt nothing on his travels after Everton and comes across now as cynical and as if his time has gone.

Trevor Peers
103 Posted 09/10/2019 at 12:54:55
Interesting that, Jerome. I think you may have hit the nail on the head by saying the club would be comfortable with it. I think it's highly probable it will be Moyes only because he's the easy option.

It isn't what any of us wants but do you think this is what is going to happen, Jerome? Maybe they have a secret list we know nothing about, but I doubt it. This is Everton — someone would have spilt the beans by now.

Matthew Williams
104 Posted 09/10/2019 at 13:37:48
Replace a foreigner with another one... smart move, Blues...sigh.

Only a British Gaffer can turn our shower of shite around with some hard fucking graft, but Silva deserves some more time to see if he can clean up his mess, imo.

Dan Sanderson
105 Posted 09/10/2019 at 13:57:29
Any manager in the rumour columns at this point in time is being angled in for the Man Utd job.

Howe or Arteta for me, I'm fed up of this foreign shite.

Iain Latchford
106 Posted 09/10/2019 at 14:03:48
Arteta is Spanish.
Jer Kiernan
107 Posted 09/10/2019 at 14:18:17
Eddie Howe for me, has a better record in the Premier League with LESS money than Silva, Solksaer, Arteta, Neville (yes, I have seen his name mentioned!) and has consistently kept his side competitive in the Premier League over a period (not the latest fads etc)

He deserves a crack at a big club and who better than his childhood team. Eddie for me please.

Kieran Kinsella
108 Posted 09/10/2019 at 14:26:48
Jer

I hate this "Eddie Howe's childhood team" crap as he apparently supported Watford as well as Everton. So essentially, his local team weren't in the top flight at the time, so being a glory hunter (with poor decision making) he sort of half supported Everton so he could watch the Premier League.

Secondly, his team cannot defend. Yes, he has had success there relative to where they were. But in truth, they haven't moved on. They came into the Premier League with a group of no ones and survived. Since then they've spent a lot of money, poorly and still survive. The extra cash hasn't produced any kind of a tangible improvement in the team. It leads me to believed his skill set is limited to getting average players to attack, attack, attack, and that's it.

Dale Rose
109 Posted 09/10/2019 at 14:28:16
What about the ToffeeWeb posters becoming a management collective? We could meet once a week pick the team and deal with transfers. The only caveat would be no pinching or eye-gouging.
Kieran Kinsella
110 Posted 09/10/2019 at 14:31:41
Dale

Isn't Jeremy Corbyn proposing something like that?

Jer Kiernan
111 Posted 09/10/2019 at 14:35:36
@Kieran 108

Ok forget the childhood Everton fan "crap" as you call it sounds like I hit a nerve there, but to say "It leads me to believed his skill set is limited to getting average players to attack, attack, attack, and that's it" is nonsensical and suggests you are letting your emotions get the better of you my friend,

It is extremely difficult to keep a side playing attacking football in the top flight on limited funds for 1 season let alone 3 or 4 they finished 9th one year

Please don't let emotions cloud your judgement the guy is better in Premier League than the guys I listed above, and some of the names being touted are a fuckin' joke, to be honest.

This guy deserves a crack at a big club whomever he supported as a child what he did back in 6th form doesn't change that, He is not the latest fad either having held down a job for more that 2 seasons which cant be said of the present coach

I take it you're not a fan.

Your suggestions?

Eddie Dunn
112 Posted 09/10/2019 at 14:39:28
A worrying sign was Roy Kean watching us at Turf Moor... so if Martin O'Neil is watching us play the Hammers at Goodison then God help us.
Kieran Kinsella
113 Posted 09/10/2019 at 14:47:57
Jer,

The point is that he hasn't had limited funds the past 3 or 4 years. He wasted the best part of £50 million on two jokers from Liverpool, neither of whom have done anything. They could have saved that cash and put out a few deckchairs to double the size of the stadium.

As he has spent more, the team has not improved. It's rather like Moyes. "I have a knife to a gunfight." Okay, Moyes, here's some money to buy yourself an AK47, and what does he come back with? James Beattie and Richard Wright. He is spending money just to stand still.

Within the Premier League, my suggestion would be the fellow from Wolves.

Jer Kiernan
114 Posted 09/10/2019 at 14:56:31
@Kieran
Brands will be buying the players, no? Also there is a certain element of a manager getting £50mil and having to buy 2 players with it, the chances of unearthing a diamond is worse than if you had 200m to buy 2 players etc,

You are also trying to attract a player to B/mouth which cant be an easy sell so I am not sure if it is a fair call.

The Wolves manager has done well but had the advantage of having all the fancy foreign players in the Championship thanks to Wolves links to certain football agents (but all above board nothing to see here!!) and hence he has had a far better pool of players to choose from than Eddie Howe.

Howe would still be a better bet for me but Wolves guy before Moyes or fucking Neville (christ on a crutch!!) which was actually discussed on another forum yesterday (and not tongue in cheek either).

My point is you can find fault with any manager who has actually done something in the game, as opposed to Pip or Arteta who, up to date have nothing to examine or put under the microscope.

Brian Murray
115 Posted 09/10/2019 at 15:19:17
If I see that ginger loser anywhere near L4, I'm done with football.

Jose is the one for Everton.

Paul Jones
116 Posted 09/10/2019 at 15:19:34
I think you should judge the owner by his proven behaviour. In similar circumstance primary concern was protecting investment hence the appointment of "Fireman Sam" so I would expect someone of similar ilk. Raffa Benitez would seem to fit his requirements. Also great experience of working with dysfunctional owners at Valencia, Liverpool and Newcastle.
Iain Latchford
117 Posted 09/10/2019 at 15:19:44
Jer, I mentioned Phil Neville yesterday for these reasons.

I don't think we're going to be shopping at the high end of the market for a new manager. Talk of Mourinho, Simeone etc is ridiculous and won't happen. Ten Hag maybe fits the bill, but I don't think we're about to land a manager who is taking teams within a kick away of the Champions League final after beating the likes of Real Madrid and Juventus. Other teams will beat us to him.

Howe has some Premier League experience yes, but all he's done is keep a small club in it. He's won absolutely nothing as manager or player. As Kieran says, he's made some pretty awful signings along the way too. I also don't agree that they play some kind of amazing brand of football. Whenever I watch them they look pretty ordinary.

Neville won everything as a player, so I would compare him to someone like Lampard who Chelsea have taken a punt on. I think it's a good move for them after all the comings and goings over recent years, and I think he'll do well. Time will tell.

Your only argument was "I like Lampard as a person, but I don't like Neville" (of words to that effect). I'm not saying Phil Neville is the answer. My point is that he is no less qualified for the Everton job than Lampard is for Chelsea.

Bill Gall
118 Posted 09/10/2019 at 15:31:05
The notion of asking Arteta to become manager, raises the problem of being a new manager at his first job. He will not have a backroom staff to bring with him that other established managers seem able to do. This means he will have to rely on the present staff at Everton minus who will go if Silva is fired.

This does not seem to be a very good idea.

Jer Kiernan
119 Posted 09/10/2019 at 15:46:00
@Iain
Eddie Howe is better qualified then both, I fully expect Pip to be as much a success as his charmless brother was in Valencia if anybody is mad enough to give him a job at any decent level

As I said before, it's easier to put under the microscope Eddie Howe as he has actually done something in the game over a prolonged period and is still relatively young, It's a game of opinions of course but I am genuinely shocked that anybody could think Neville would be anything other than a joke as a Manager, I am sorry.

I didn't say I like Lampard but made the point that he is somebody I would take seriously; when he talks, he makes sense, Pip is a clown lacks any charisma or personality was a bench warmer for a side that was easily dominating English football has done nothing as a manager and I just cannot see it.

But as above Eddie is better equiped than both and would I believe be happy to come to our club.

Iain Latchford
120 Posted 09/10/2019 at 15:55:20
Jer, Neville was not a bench warmer for Utd. He played 263 times for them (more than us), and started around 75% of those games. He played more in their treble winning side than Giggs.

Anthony Dove
121 Posted 09/10/2019 at 16:18:48
Every time I see Moyes's name mentioned, I ring the Samaritans.
Jer Kiernan
122 Posted 09/10/2019 at 16:35:36
@Iain
He is not gona make a manager I would bet my life on it. Neither has he earned it, Let him fail as a Championship manage first then we can review

Eddie Howes the right man at the right time for our club :)

Jay Harris
123 Posted 09/10/2019 at 16:41:26
Bill
He could ask his pal Tim Cahill to join him.

Now that would be a pairing to get the juices flowing.

Dale Rose
124 Posted 09/10/2019 at 16:44:10
Anthony 119. Let's hope Moysey isn't working for them then.
Tony Marsh
125 Posted 09/10/2019 at 16:44:35
Seriously, if the clown show that runs Everton FC bring back Moyes, I am done and I will encourage every single member of my families kids to support Liverpool. I will throw my loyalty on the fire. It's outrageous that Moyes is even mentioned in the same breath as the Everton job.

I hate what Kenwright is doing at this club. I can see BK down Moshiri's ear telling him Deadly Dave is our only hope. If that gobshite gets the manager's job again I am finished with Everton and I know plenty more that feel the same.

By the way, Eddie Howe isn't ever coming north again. Eddie's bird hated it up here. I know it was Burnley but the North of England in general doesn't appeal. This was one of the reasons Howe failed at Burnley. Family issues.

Jimmy Hogan
126 Posted 09/10/2019 at 16:55:36
I don't think we need to worry about Moyes coming back. I seem to remember from the past that Moshiri is not a fan.

In any event, Moyes's record since leaving us has been truly awful. He is no longer the manager he was. He has been an abject failure in every post he has held since he left Everton.

Anthony Dove
127 Posted 09/10/2019 at 17:53:52
Dale122. If he was there would be a big hike in the suicide rate.
Jer Kiernan
128 Posted 09/10/2019 at 18:02:25
@ Tony 123
I have just checked google images I doubt EH will be dumpin the misses anytime soon for the Everton job. I know I wouldnt :)

Hope maybe she could be talked around

I agree 100% on Moyes I would suggest somebody needs to take out a fatwa on a certain True blue if this happens, shows how bad our situation is that the bookies have him in the running let alone Fav -Shocking

James Stewart
129 Posted 09/10/2019 at 18:04:36
@48 Agreed. The only outstanding candidate, I defy anyone to name someone else with a better cv who is within reach.

It’s a shame our fan base will probably never let it happen and would rather see another mediocre Moshiri appointment instead. Dyche, Howe etc... No thanks. I want Everton to be competitive and Benitez is the man who would take us up a level, simple as that.

Eddie Dunn
130 Posted 09/10/2019 at 18:17:45
On Howard Kendall, I was a student in Nottingham in the early eighties and we played a night game at Notts County. We had a very young team out and I think we were trailing by one goal and Howard brought himself on. He was getting on a bit but was a revellation, foot on the ball, head up simple passing and orchestrating his young side to a creditable draw(I think).
One of my tutors was also at the game and enthused about him at college the next day. My tutor had incidentally played in the save army team as Duncan Edwards during National Service.
Paul Tran
131 Posted 09/10/2019 at 18:26:19
Tony #80, let's hear some of these rumours. Us exiles get starved of the gossip!
Eddie Dunn
132 Posted 09/10/2019 at 18:30:40
Tony - I really don't want Moyse either. He planned his departure well in advance and tried to steal our players.
As for Eddie Howe- I really like the guy but the boyhood Blue stuff is neither here nor there. He was just a kid following a club from somewhere else. It's not like he was brought-up on Merseyside or anything.
However, can you blame his missus for not wanting to eat blackpudding butties everyday and sit in the stand in the biting Lancashire wind?
Surely Liverpool is somewhat different, with nightlife, shops and an airport!
Many southerners have never been North of Watford and think hup north we all wear cloggs and hankies on our heads!
In the mid eighties I worked in Soho and everyone in my studio (did animation back then) was from the south apart from one girl from Redcar and myself. None of the other 12 people had been north of Watford. They had no idea about the north of England at all.
Nowadays London is a city-state and there is a problem attracting many young millionaires to the provinces.
Surely Eddie has some ambition?
Kieran Kinsella
133 Posted 09/10/2019 at 18:30:54
Eddie Dunn

Nice anecdote. These quality players ooze class even when they are older. I remember Trevor Francis at Wed in the same player/manager role at about 39 and while not quick he was far better technically than anyone else

Tony Abrahams
134 Posted 09/10/2019 at 18:42:58
Agree with Tony M, and would definitely not set foot in Goodison, if the man who thought he’d made it, once United came calling, (didn’t the silly man realise he had to become a winner, if he was to stay in this job?) came back to Everton.

I read two different txts last night Paul T, both alluding that Ferguson had not been allowed to travel home on the coach from Burnley.

Hard to believe the first one because I can’t remember Lewin, missing any chances, but the second one said he’d told Boa Morte to fucking shut up, (Boa was talking to Moise Kean, allegedly) and our assistant manager was fuming and stole it on the big man!

Silva wants him gone, but Duncan has seen better managers than Marco off, and that last bit is the only thing I can promise you that is definitely not a rumour, Paul!

Jeff Armstrong
135 Posted 09/10/2019 at 19:00:33
How about David Wagner at Schalke, unfairly treated at Huddersfield after a brilliant couple of seasons, knows the league, realistic option, currently lying 5th in the Bundesliga, and a bit of a Kloppalike!
What’s not to like about a Kloppalike?
Kieran Kinsella
136 Posted 09/10/2019 at 19:09:16
Tony

Was Boa Morte talking to Kean like "Oh Moise have a lovely weekend sunshine," or was it a "Kean, you're so crap you'll turn into me and be an Everton assistant manager in 10 years."

It is such a weird dynamic with the management team. You have Fergie there on account of scoring in a Merseyside derby 24 years ago, seemingly given a job for life by Bill. Then an ever changing cast of coaches having to include him in their inner circle. Throw in the racist spat with Boa Morte and it's a recipe for. well the season we are having.

Paul Tran
137 Posted 09/10/2019 at 19:20:07
Cheers Tony. I've always wondered what Ferguson actually does. Starting to feel the same about Silva and Boa Morte.
Darren Hind
138 Posted 09/10/2019 at 19:32:11
Whoa . . Tony A

Can we rewind that a bit. Was you told they were trading blows.

When you say the txt message said BM "stole it on him" do you mean it in the old fashioned sense - That he literally chinned him when he wasn't expecting it ?. . Is that how you read it ?

Cristobal Aguirre
139 Posted 09/10/2019 at 19:33:46
Defintely it is the best option!
Jay Harris
140 Posted 09/10/2019 at 19:38:49
Tony,
that is something I feared but had no evidence.

Bill's boys club undermining everything the manager tries to do.

Just consider for a minute the evil one deliberately undermining managers so he can get his loyal servant back. There was nobody like Moyesy for polishing Bill's boots.

Anyone with integrity would have not suffered the transfer kitty that Moyes did nor would they put up with Bill's interference. I know Koeman wasnt everyone's cup of tea but he was running things professionally until Bill pulled his sell Lukaku and get Rooney back stunt.

Mike Gaynes
141 Posted 09/10/2019 at 19:50:55
Jeff #133, I was a huge Wagner booster (and the only one here) when we hired Silva, but now being back in the Bundesliga and doing so well and being contracted there thru 2022, I seriously doubt he'd have any interest in returning to England.

Tony #132, details please!!!

Joe McMahon
142 Posted 09/10/2019 at 19:57:12
Kieran @134, that's unfair as I've also seen him with a clenched fist after scoring aswell.
Steve Ferns
143 Posted 09/10/2019 at 19:58:24
Ignore it. It’s a load of shite lads. Same as those rumours about the ground falling through. It’s just kopites sticking the knife and stirring the pot.
Derek Knox
144 Posted 09/10/2019 at 19:59:33
Tony A, @ 132, trouble at mill lad? That's one thing that Silva is good at, diverting attention away from himself, and blaming all and sundry for another debacle!

Jay H, @ 138, " There was nobody like Moyesy for polishing Bill's boots". Aye with his tongue! I believe Teary Bill never had any haemarrhoid issues either!

Dave Abrahams
145 Posted 09/10/2019 at 20:09:45
Eddie (128), Howard was player manager versus Stoke City at Goodison, I think Alan Irvine made his debut in the same game on an ice bound pitch, Irvine was very good but Howard stood out even though it was obvious his best days were gone, his body had slowed down but had transferred it’s energy to Howard’s brain which worked overtime to control the tempo of the game.

I think we won 2-0 but wouldn’t bet on that, it was a night game.

Peter Warren
146 Posted 09/10/2019 at 20:11:09
Didn’t Steve McLaren win the Dutch league not long back?
Jay Harris
147 Posted 09/10/2019 at 20:13:44
I was trying to put it nicely, Derek, but your words seem so much more appropriate. All arise at the court of King William.
Tony Abrahams
148 Posted 09/10/2019 at 20:16:15
I'd go along with Steve Fearns on this one because it's Wednesday night now and I'm not sure the club could not have kept this out the news so well.

One text said Duncan was giving Calvert-Lewin stick, and a water bottle was thrown, and the other had it coming via something Peter Reid had said, that Boa Morte, jumped over the coach seat and punched Duncan.

I can't see it myself because I don't reckon it could have been kept quiet this long, especially because the stories don't really match. But, if it's true, then maybe a bit of fight at long last?

Craig Walker
149 Posted 09/10/2019 at 20:17:13
We never do well with Dutch acquisitions. Jury is still out on Brands for me despite the love for the guy.

Rafa Benitez please.

Advantages: Won things. Managed big clubs and players. Proven in the Premier League. Tactically astute. Can organise a defence. Would command the respect of the players. Kept Newcastle up for two seasons on a shoestring. Known to like the area.

Disadvantages: managed the RS and once called us a small club. Might cost us a fair bit but then so too would anyone worth having.

Len Hawkins
150 Posted 09/10/2019 at 20:19:55
Eddie #130

Moyes was marked for the Manchester United job well before he went. My nephew was on one of Boris's "New Airport for London" steering groups and a then member of the Everton Board was also on the same group. As a season ticket holder, my nephew used to quiz him about things Everton. He was told at least a couple of years before he went that "David will be the next United Manager".

Probably the crocks we signed off Ferguson was some sort of compensation. As far as I am concerned, I never want to see Moyes's mug glaring on the touchline as we try and see out a second-minute one-nil lead for the next 87 minutes.

Steve Ferns
151 Posted 09/10/2019 at 20:20:08
Tony, all the unofficial mouth-pieces like Alan Myers said to ignore the rumours.

Dan Meis poured scorn on all the ground rumours. He wouldn't do that if there was any truth to it.

Twitter comes out with some whoppers. There can be smoke without fire.

Steve Ferns
152 Posted 09/10/2019 at 20:24:57
Tony, did you also hear the one that Marco Silva is keeping his job by having an illicit affair with a certain blonde in a senior position? You gotta love Twitter.
Darren Hind
153 Posted 09/10/2019 at 20:27:43
Yeah, you're right, Tony. You could probably keep a little bit of handbags between players out of the news, but you'd never be able to cover up two coaches going at it.

Besides, Boa Morte would have had trouble scrambling over a coach seat in his playing days. He'd need the assistance of a catapult to jump over one now.

Almost sorry it's not true. It would have been nice to think there was enough passion within the ranks for full-scale fisties to have taken place.

Clive Rogers
154 Posted 09/10/2019 at 20:28:14
Silva has said the West Ham game is must-win, must-win. It could be that he has been given an ultimatum: lose and you're gone.

Reading between the lines of course, but I wouldn't be surprised... Moshiri has put a lot of money into Everton FC, he can kiss it all goodbye if we are relegated. After all, he only had £1.2 billion!!!

Dave Abrahams
155 Posted 09/10/2019 at 20:29:49
Think I'm getting mixed up with Kendall playing in that Stoke game. Alan Irvine definitely played. I doubt if Howard played, unless it was for Stoke!!
Steve Ferns
156 Posted 09/10/2019 at 20:33:36
Darren, if true, then Boa Morte and Ferguson would not have both been at Finch Farm on Monday... business as usual.
Tony Abrahams
157 Posted 09/10/2019 at 20:35:56
I don't reckon you could keep something like this out the news if it had really happened, especially in a city like ours.

“It's like death or glory — we love a good story!”

I just wish Silva's Everton could be as creative as Roger Waters!

Tony Abrahams
158 Posted 09/10/2019 at 20:38:46
Those rumours have been circulating for a long time now, Steve, but I think you're talking about the wrong manager!
Darren Hind
159 Posted 09/10/2019 at 20:40:46
"The powers that be" don't care enough, Tony.
Brian Harrison
160 Posted 09/10/2019 at 20:41:57
As usual when teams are struggling, there are always rumours of fights and fall outs; whether any of them are true nobody knows. I would imagine there are fall outs at every training ground in the Premier League at least once a fortnight, so that's par for the course it seems.

I assume, with no activity being reported in the press, that Marco Silva will be in charge for at least the West Ham game. I think Moshiri is duty-bound to try and stick with the man he was prepared to pay £15 million to Watford for.

Should there have to be a change in the weeks ahead my choice, who was my choice before we appointed Martinez was Simeone but I know that's never going to happen. Then I wouldn't be unhappy if we could get Arteta and Rooney. They have both worked with top managers and, in Rooney's case, he has won everything there is to win in football. We always talk a lot about winning mentality — well, these two have it in spades.

Eddie Dunn
161 Posted 09/10/2019 at 20:43:56
Dave, perhaps, but I deffo saw Howard come off the bench at County. I didn't catch him in his glory days – my old man didn't go to football, but I was well impressed at his aging body but, as you said, fantastic brain. Isn't it a shame the body doesn't last!

I am still playing 5-a-side twice a week at the age of 59. The brain knows what I want but the limbs are like lead... the standard isn't great so I'm not last pick!

But a mate of mine plays over-50s footy for Wales and they sometimes get Evertonian Lee Trundle to train with them. My pal says he is unbelievable. Touch, tricks and still seems quick. He is 43 and plays for Ammonford.

Tony Abrahams
162 Posted 09/10/2019 at 20:55:41
That definitely makes perfect sense, Darren, especially with the tide showing no signs of turning!
Dave Abrahams
163 Posted 09/10/2019 at 20:56:28
Eddie (159),

No, I wasn't questioning you about the Notts County game, no doubt you saw it, I just thought I'd seen Howard in that Stoke game, but remembered I'd recalled that game before and I was wrong.

It's a mental block, I still think I saw Bobby Collins make his debut vs Man City at Maine Road on a Wednesday night; it was on a Saturday afternoon, as was proved with two or three Everton fans on here pointing out my mistake.

No, Eddie, you saw Howard at Notts County. I thought I saw him play vs Stoke but I never.

Steve Ferns
164 Posted 09/10/2019 at 20:57:49
Tony, people have re-hashed them to explain why Marco Silva is still in a job.
Kieran Kinsella
165 Posted 09/10/2019 at 21:04:13
Steve

I heard that there's trouble in the camp because Morgan Schneiderlin parked in Marco's designated MS spot.

Tony Abrahams
166 Posted 09/10/2019 at 21:11:22
They say everything comes out in the wash, but I'm not bothered with things that have got nothing to do with me, Steve.

All's I want to see is an Everton team playing with skill, speed, energy, bravery and desire, but I'm not seeing anything but football that is honestly starting to make me feel indifferent, and I never thought I'd ever feel like that.

Andy Crooks
167 Posted 09/10/2019 at 21:11:28
Why is Duncan Ferguson still in a job? What has he offered manager after manager other than his legendariness? It stinks of the Kenwright Rest Home for nonenteties. Is there another club in the universe that would have "the Legend", or the, fuck me, "the fox in the box", within a million miles of any club with a semblence of ambition, aspiration, professionalism or integrity???

Boot them out. Stop being a charity and a former-players nursing home.

Tony Abrahams
168 Posted 09/10/2019 at 21:14:00
That makes more sense, Kieran, because the only way Schneiderlin should be getting a game is if he's picking the team himself.
Anthony Dove
169 Posted 09/10/2019 at 21:58:43
Even if it was true, does it make any sense to say Silva has one game to keep his job.

If we beat West Ham, who are also crap, does that mean he is suddenly the man for the job? No. He has already proved conclusively he is not the man.

Alan Johnson
170 Posted 09/10/2019 at 22:25:49
Silva says the "West Ham game is a must-win."

Mr Silva, don't be so selective. Every game is a must-win game.

Bye, Marco — Hello, Eddie Howe.

Mike Doyle
171 Posted 09/10/2019 at 22:35:48
I was speaking to a Spurs fan at the weekend. He reeled off a load of (unsubstantiated) rumours doing the rounds about trouble behind the scenes at Tottenham and it did strike me that – despite spending £xxx billion over the last 3 years – we are even lagging well behind the top 6 clubs in the rumour stakes.

I blame Kenwright, Brands, Ozzie & Hibbert for this.

Jer Kiernan
172 Posted 09/10/2019 at 22:38:40
AJ @168,

I second that, Eddie Howe is the right man for the right job at the right time. It is well beyond time somebody gave him a crack at a big job and this is it. Unlike some of the names being bandied about, which have me amused to death, I feel Eddie has earned it.

Fingers crossed, Eddie has my vote.

Kieran Kinsella
173 Posted 09/10/2019 at 22:43:13
Mike @169,

It's true we had much better rumours under Agent Johnson.

Kenwright Out!

Eddie Dunn
174 Posted 09/10/2019 at 22:44:54
Mike, I heard on Monday night from a source at Spurs that the problems all stem from alledged shenanigans amongst certain players and wives but not purely the correct wives and husbands.

It would all explain some of the selections from Potchettino and some of the performances (on the pitch). I wonder if there are any gagging orders floating around?

Of course this is all hearsay. Move along, nothing to see..

Kieran Kinsella
175 Posted 09/10/2019 at 22:48:12
Eddie,

Let me guess where you heard these rumours. Are you Colleen Rooney's sole friend on Instagram by any chance?

Eddie Dunn
176 Posted 09/10/2019 at 22:51:33
Kieran, Have you seen her basement floor?
Eddie Dunn
177 Posted 09/10/2019 at 22:53:13
Kieran, I know a dentist who does a lot of veneers.
Kieran Kinsella
178 Posted 09/10/2019 at 22:54:24
No... but I heard she's going to Mexico for a gender selection.
Colin Glassar
179 Posted 09/10/2019 at 23:06:17
Am I the only one who finds The Great British Bake Off far more interesting, and entertaining, than Everton right now? I think Paul and Prue should take charge temporarily. Stick Noel in defence and Sandi up front!
Derek Knox
180 Posted 10/10/2019 at 00:28:38
Colin @ 177, that just about puts the icing on the cake!
Ed Prytherch
181 Posted 10/10/2019 at 01:51:29
I am with Iain Latcford - give Captain Phil a go of it. Iain gave some good reasons and I will add that Phil has shown that he can coach a team of big girls.
Kieran Kinsella
182 Posted 10/10/2019 at 02:02:17
Ed,

Biggest problem with Phil is his nasally slightly nervous voice. He is smart enough but he'd be more impressive if he got one of those Darth Vader or Bane masks and voice boxes.

Tommy Carter
183 Posted 10/10/2019 at 02:36:32
Although it is not ideal, I do feel Rafa might be the way to go. He is an outstanding manager and his stint at Newcastle reinforced this for me.

I think at his age now, he has one more big job left in him. I mean 'big' in terms of longevity. We could be that job.

I've no doubt he would improve us.

Jay Harris
184 Posted 10/10/2019 at 03:52:44
Mike and Eddie,

The rumour I heard from a "supposed" insider at Spurs was that Erikson had been having an affair with Vertonghen's or Alderwield's missus. I can't remember which one because I dismissed it at the time as a "Sun" rumour.

Kieran Kinsella
185 Posted 10/10/2019 at 04:36:07
Jay

It was Vertongen with Ericsson's wife and somehow it led to Kane fighting Ericsson and Ericsson giving Vertongen a black eye. Ericsson denied it on Twitter and Vertongen liked his tweet although he did give him a black eye accidentally somehow in training. That's what the public explanation was anyway. Probably Tony Hibbert caused it all somehow.

Ron Marr
186 Posted 10/10/2019 at 05:29:29
I don't know if this has been mentioned already from The Guardian:

"Everton have only scored six goals in the league this season and just one of them has come in the second half " and "Everton have only scored two goals with their feet (the worst return in the league) also suggests the team are short of solutions in attack." Guardian story

Also, in 46 games, Silva has lost 2 games more than he has won, with the lowest points-per-game of the last 5 managers - W 17, D10, L19.

TalkSport Story

Brian Porter
187 Posted 10/10/2019 at 05:54:34
Why hasn't he been sacked yet? This is just prolonging the agony.
John Pierce
188 Posted 10/10/2019 at 06:21:28
Silva has already lost his job. It's only a matter of convenience. Once the ducks have been put into their neat rows, he's toast. Once they have appointment they want he will be sacked.

The club will not risk the turmoil that persisted in the wake of sacking Koeman.

Even if Silva pulls the form around, confidence in his ability has already been broken amongst the fanbase. As soon as any form tails off, the knives will be out. He has no credit left in the bank and will need to win every game. It won't happen.

It's over now, before it even began.

Alan J Thompson
189 Posted 10/10/2019 at 06:46:45
I think a little bit of logic needs applying to some rumours.

Silva doesn't want Ferguson coaching? He is the Manager/Head Coach, all he would have to do is put Ferguson with the U-18s coach and if Mr Kenwright didn't like it, then I'm sure Mr Silva might ask Mr Moshiri to have a word on his behalf.

Or it could be that, under the present circumstances, Silva feels so insecure that he doesn't want to raise the matter of demotion or the sack to anyone.

Tommy Carter
190 Posted 10/10/2019 at 07:01:23
@ Andy 167

I couldn’t agree more. What the hell this cretin Ferguson is still doing at the club is beyond me.

As for Jeffers, again, extremely limited coaching credentials yet he seems to have walked into a job at a Premier League club.

This is a club that had Jose Baxter on the payroll for 12 months.

I’d hope that any money I give to the club would be used to improve it. Not to pay former players to be a detracting presence at EFC.

Derek Knox
191 Posted 10/10/2019 at 08:51:34
Brian @ 187, this is almost taking as long as Brexit. :-)
Tony Everan
192 Posted 10/10/2019 at 10:20:59
I think the club needs a manager who will stabilse and organise us.

At this point, I think it's essential we get an experienced manager who can get through the shitstorm and flack and bring us out the other side without breaking down under stress.

For a young up-and-coming manager from a lesser league, even our league it's a big ask. Especially mid-season, the job could break him, and we would be in a worse state.

Experienced top quality managers: Allegri, Benitez, Bielsa spring to mind but the former will be after the Man Utd job and the latter has baggage that he said when he was scared of us in 2007. A flippant off the cuff wind up. But any mitigation falls on deaf ears, he disrespected us and it rules him out for many. All the same, a proven quality manager.

Bielsa in an interesting one, he would probably jump at the chance. He has transformed Leeds since his arrival into a proper force of a well-drilled, organised football team. I think he is a no-nonsense organiser that would do well for us.


The Moyes - Neville combo has been mentioned, but it doesn't foster excitement does it? But it may offer stability and get us looking like a proper team again that's primarily hard to beat. Maybe we have to temper grand expectations for the short term and build up to it from a solid base.

Mourhino has been mentioned, but I think he has lost his professional focus and has been trading on his name only for years now.

Any other suggestions on the experience front?


Denis Richardson
193 Posted 10/10/2019 at 11:20:36
Personally I really don't like the idea of an interim appointment. We're only in October so we'd effectively be throwing in the towel on the season when we've barely started.

Get the best guy we can now with a view to him being there for a few years. There is no guarantee that anyone specific will be available in 8 months time. The game moves quickly and you have no idea what other positions will be available in summer next year.

Money and a decent project (large club, new stadium on the horizon, relatively decent if demotivated squad) should be enough to attract someone half-decent if not world-class (who wouldn't come to us now anyway).

We are still a ‘name' with an average 40k crowd and any manager would be backed in the transfer market.

Jamie Crowley
194 Posted 10/10/2019 at 12:06:39
I'd back either of Phil Neville or Ten Hag, but I'd prefer Ten Hag.

For no other reason than a gut feeling. And that gut feeling is this:

I just feel Phil Neville could (could!) end up mini-Moyes.

Phil was Davey's right-hand man. I don't think he ever viewed Everton as a "big" club, despite loving Everton. I think Phil would think he'd done swell guiding us to 7th place, just behind all the big boys.

Ten Hag, or any other young, aggressive manager, wouldn't have the baggage of "know your place", having not hailed from England. He'd just straight up go for it, and coming from Ajax where winning is a culture, he'd look to build a mighty Everton, and not settle.

For that reason my preference will always be a young coach without a tie to Everton from playing days.

But to be clear, I like Pip and think he's going to make a damn good manager some day.

Tommy Carter
195 Posted 10/10/2019 at 12:50:46
@ Jamie 194

I disagree. I don't think Neville will have what it takes.

If you observe the England Women's set up and how he ‘coaches' them, it leaves one very underwhelmed. He lacks the kind of charisma required from a great leader.

Iain Latchford
196 Posted 10/10/2019 at 12:57:44
A lot of the criticism of Neville seems to focus on how he talks, or the fact that he doesn't seem very exciting. Less focus is placed on what he may, or may not know, about football. Is bouncing around on the touchline now a prerequisite for being a good manager?

Eddie Howe (who keeps being mentioned) is hardly Mr Charisma either, but that doesn't seem to matter for some reason?

Neville was captain of Everton and always very vocal on the pitch. I believe this was the same in the dressing room, from what I remember reading during the time he was with us.

I would prefer Ten Hag too, but just think others will beat us to it when/if he decides to leave Ajax.

Mike Doyle
197 Posted 10/10/2019 at 13:02:53
Eddie & Jay. Back in the early '70s – when we were a higher-profile club we enjoyed much better rumours.

Long before the advent of social media we had stories of players being sold to facilitate the payment of gambling debts, inappropriate activity with local school girls and. of course. Bernie Wright! (Older posters probably know many more...)

The fact that all we can muster today is the suggestion that Big Dunc may have had an argument with Boa Morte illustrates perfectly how far we have fallen. The Spurs rumours I would describe as "Top 6" – in contrast, ours shout "relegation zone"

Tommy Carter
198 Posted 10/10/2019 at 13:10:26
@196 Iain.

You make an interesting point, Iain. But Neville was a worthy captain for a number of reasons.

He led by example. He was a talker. But people would listen because of his vast experience at the very top level. And also because of the things he had won. That set him apart in a squad of average and emerging players.

Management is a different game altogether though. And winning trophies with Man Utd 20 years ago is not going to do anything for a modern player. They won't care.

They'll be more likely to respond to a charismatic and forward-thinking coach, like Klopp. Or a manager with a proven track record.

Neville doesn't tick these boxes, I'm afraid. His management experience at club level is non-existent. His management of the Female National side has been solid and nothing more. It would be a huge risk and one I'm not convinced would work.

EFC requires a new identity. A new attitude and an innovative coach to implement all of this. You can put your finger on exactly what Benitez, Mourinho and even Bielsa would bring. Can anybody describe what Neville would give our club? Besides enthusiasm, I certainly can't.

Dennis Stevens
199 Posted 10/10/2019 at 13:14:30
Colin #179 - I'd rather go for Mary Berry, at least she's a blue!
Craig Walker
200 Posted 10/10/2019 at 13:34:02
Neville would be a terrible appointment. I think he was a decent servant of our club as a player but no more than that. His abilities were limited.

We need to stop acting like a little start-up enterprise and show some ambition. Why are we always looking at someone who might show some promise rather than someone who has a track record?

Iain Latchford
201 Posted 10/10/2019 at 13:40:41
Tommy, I don't disagree with a lot of what you've said. I'd love a charismatic, exciting, young manager, with a proven track record. I just don't think there's one out there who would come to us.

Bielsa is a maybe, but I think he'd be a much of a risk as anyone, if not more. He is, quite frankly, mad.

There are great players who don't make good managers, and vice versa. I think it comes down to a general level of intelligence. I wouldn't want Gazza managing us for example, even without all his troubles. Neville strikes me as a clued-up guy, with a lot of experience of the game, and I'm sure he's always looking at the new systems and styles out there today.

I'm beginning to sound like Pip's biggest superfan, which isn't the look I'm going for. I just think he shouldn't be as easily dismissed as he has been by some on here.

Jer Kiernan
202 Posted 10/10/2019 at 13:54:39
Maybe a manager who has lasted more than 2 seasons in the PL, A league in which we actually play, like say... Eddie Howe.

I think where we are at as a club the fact that Spurs and Man Utd will soon be also looking for a new manager, I feel he is the right man to build an exciting team to bring us to Bramley-Moore Dock.

I am shocked to hear some of the rhetoric as regards one P Neville genuinely. Please just wait until somebody gives him a job in the Championship and watch him crash and burn.

Will be about as successful at inspiring a team as his charmless gimp of a brother was at Valencia, Another Neville who won lots of trophies in a team easily dominating the Premier League and was an absolute joke as a manager, Laughed out of the dressing room and the results at Valencia showed as much.

I honestly feel some fans want us relegated.

Kieran Kinsella
203 Posted 10/10/2019 at 14:19:24
Mike,

There's also a bizarre rumor on Twitter that Silva kicked a mint in Bernards eye which prompted a fight with Ferguson.

Iain Latchford
204 Posted 10/10/2019 at 14:35:24
Kieran, I've heard of Ticka Tacka football, but that's pushing it too far.
Jay Harris
205 Posted 10/10/2019 at 14:45:07
It is being reported today that Mourhino will be joining a Premier League club?

There are only us, Spurs and Man Utd that I would have thought could be possible?

Kieran Kinsella
206 Posted 10/10/2019 at 15:10:27
Lol Ian
Kieran Kinsella
207 Posted 10/10/2019 at 15:13:21
Jay

It would be very un-Everton to sack a manager and replace him the same day. I can only see it being Spurs unless of course Moshiri is having another of his panic moments.

I am really curious as to who is Moshiri's muse. He isn't from a football background at all but he was Hell-bent on getting Koeman, then Silva specifically. I just wonder who puts these seeds in his ear. Was it Jim White? Mina Raoli? Rebekah Vardy?

Jay Harris
208 Posted 10/10/2019 at 15:20:24
Good point, Kieran, although I wouldn't put anything past our trainwreck of a club right now.

Moshiri seems to pluck names out of a hat depending on the flavour of the month — just like Kenwright having a brandy with Dave Whelan and being convinced Martinez was the greatest thing since sliced bread.

Is it any wonder we're so bad when it's run like Amateur Hour???

Iain Latchford
209 Posted 10/10/2019 at 15:34:14
With the situation at Spurs, you'd have to put them as front runners. Mourinho didn't want to live in Manchester, so I doubt Liverpool would appeal either. Pochettino probably to Man Utd as part of the merry-go-round.
James Hughes
210 Posted 10/10/2019 at 15:36:47
Kieran #203. the best jaw-dropping post I have read in ages. many thanks.

Did Fergie fight Silva because of the accuracy of the kick? was he outraged as he never possessed that much skill? Can the accuracy be passed on to the whole team as they can't hit a 24-m² target at present.

Kieran Kinsella
211 Posted 10/10/2019 at 15:42:21
James,

Not sure how Fergie got in the mix but supposedly, in what I am sure is "fake news," Silva was ranting at half time. He was sucking a mint which I guess in his rage he spat out.

As it descended, he decided to volley it and it happened to hit Bernard in the eye. Some kind of melee followed and supposedly this brawl affected Coleman's attitude leading to the red card.

Frank Crewe
212 Posted 10/10/2019 at 15:45:28
I would not go for Ten Hag. Just another up and comer. Just because he's had a modicum of success on the continent doesn't mean he's ready for the pressure of the Premier League. Especially at the club like Everton. Koeman and Silva both had similar records as Ten Hag and as we have seen they turned out to be rubbish managers.

We need a manager who understands the pressure he will be under from day one, eg, Massimiliano Allegri, Wenger, Rudi Garcia etc — Managers who have managed major clubs in major leagues. No more Flavours of the Month.

Steavey Buckley
213 Posted 10/10/2019 at 15:48:10
The situation is now dire because no-one can score goals on a regular basis. That's why Everton are 3rd from bottom and not 3rd from top.

So it doesn't matter who is the next manager, he won't find a goal scorer in the team. When Everton were last in this situation, when Koeman was sacked, both Rooney and Sigurdsson were scoring goals. Now, there is no-one.

Kieran Kinsella
214 Posted 10/10/2019 at 15:58:57
Ten Hag won the Eredivisie in his second season and got to the Champions League semi. Bear in mind PSV (prior season winners) lost the DoF and Manager. Also, it was only two years since Ajax had last won the league.

Is that much more to go on than Mike Walker? Norwich finished 18th in 1991. They appoint him that summer and finish 3rd, their best-ever position. The next season, they beat Bayern in the Uefa Cup.

Or Leonardo Jardim, won the league at Monaco, got to the Champions League semi-final the same season.

Or Walter Smith returns to Rangers, who haven't won the league in three years, in 07-08. He gets to the Uefa Cup Final and wins the league.

Jer Kiernan
215 Posted 10/10/2019 at 15:58:59
Kieran @211,

Pissed myself laughing, painting that picture in my head of the now soon-to-be "Silva Mint-Gate" incident... but sounds about farcical enough to fit in with our current season.

John Pierce
216 Posted 10/10/2019 at 16:01:52
Bielsa would be an outside shout. If he was not walking out on a club over the brand of coffee they buy ,he tends to honor his contract.

But if by the magic of conjecture he joined he'd change us. in an instant. We'd still be screwed though because we don't have a centre-forward. Leeds are destroying teams in the championship but without a semi decent forward and profligate in the extreme.

This is why is struggle with Silva, take Rogers and Bielsa, both very different but they impact the teams they coach quickly and decisively. Why has it taken so long Silva to have a definitive change? Ask yourself what does an Everton goal under Silva look like? I cannot tell you what one looks like. That's a problem.

So whoever replaces him, needs to over-achieve, and be impactful. Benitez is the only coach I see out there who fits that remit. He has consistently delivered a team which is more than the sum of its parts.

Whilst not a manager I think Brands would choose, perhaps it's worth considering Benitez doesn't need his hand-held and Marcel could get on with preparing the whole club for the manager beyond that type of appointment.
I would be very supportive of an appointment like Benitez and then courting a rising star to come into an environment that is far more conducive to success once stabilized.

Steve Ferns
217 Posted 10/10/2019 at 16:07:32
Bielsa impacts teams very quickly because he does his homework. That homework takes a long time. Bielsa, if he was out of work right now, would require time to even consider the job.

But as you said John, he never breaks a contract. You allude to the fact that he's walked out on teams before, and he has, most famously Lazio before a ball was kicked, but Bielsa believes contracts go both ways and if the club does not deliver on it's promises then he considers the contract broken and walks away.

Leeds have done everything Bielsa has asked of them, he is not going to break the contract. So he is a non-starter, not an outside bet.

I disagree with everything you say on Silva.

Dave Williams
218 Posted 10/10/2019 at 16:59:11
I think the rumours concerning Duncan are wrong- anyone chinning him would have been summarily flattened and taken to hospital!
I am not a fan of these demands for Duncan, Jeffers, Ebbrell etc to be sacked. I have never read anything to suggest that any of them are poor at their jobs. If they are then agreed they should go and to hell with sentiment but just because we are not scoring goals we can’t lay the blame on Duncan just because he is there. Does anyone actually know if they are bad coaches?
Likewise the guys who criticise the use of ex players as ambassadors. We can hardly engage ex players from other clubs can we and that’s all Sharp, Snodin, Stuart and Co are doing.
There is only one person to blame for our third from bottom performance and that is the manager. It looks like he will be in charge for West Ham which won’t be easy. Will he change his team I wonder?
Kieran Kinsella
219 Posted 10/10/2019 at 17:10:58
Dave Williams

You’re just defending the back room team because you were Mike Walkers asst manager

Mike Doyle
220 Posted 10/10/2019 at 17:24:27
Kieran 211. You'll have to do better than that rumour - that one is Championship/League 1 standard at best (or as many posters would call it - DCL standard).
Got anything that includes a recent Miss World (giving my age away here), loads of cash and booze?
Dave Williams
221 Posted 10/10/2019 at 17:29:02
Very good Kieran! Wouldn’t have minded earning his money!
Gaute Lie
222 Posted 10/10/2019 at 17:35:27
Ralf Rangnick. If we are looking for a New manager, the RB Salzburg/RB Leipzig boss would do it for me.
Steve Ferns
223 Posted 10/10/2019 at 17:38:58
Kieran, I listened to the Paul Rideout interview from a while back and he was speaking about Mike Walker. Terrible coach apparently. Kept mentioning how it was his first job away from his "home club" (Norwich) and that he was an ex-keeper and had been a keeper coach.

Also listened to the Joe Royle one which was very interesting. Big thing from that is how many characters there was, how much they had a laugh and joke, and how you needed that with the team doing so bad when he came in and so much pressure on the lads.

There's scrutiny everywhere now and if a player is smiling or laughing then it's taken the wrong way. We definitely need to see the player's smiling on the training pitch. Joe said a miserable team is a losing team. We do look a miserable team, so let's hope Yerry Mina is breaking out his dancing moves and getting the jokes going in the changing room.

Steve Ferns
224 Posted 10/10/2019 at 17:41:10
Gaute, doesn't he have a bad heart? I think the Everton job would be a bit too much for him. I'd fear for his health if he ever lost a few in a row.
Jay Wood
[BRZ]

225 Posted 10/10/2019 at 18:04:18
"Gaute, doesn't he have a bad heart?"

Sounds like he'd fit right in, Steve.

I think we've all got dodgy tickers at the moment watching the Blues.

Jer Kiernan
226 Posted 10/10/2019 at 18:42:46
@Dave 218
I agree with you regards the ex players some legends "creaming" a living off the club, Its the ones on the park doing just that on Saturday than concern me,

I doubt Sharpey is getting anywhere near as much as Schneids is taking out of the coffers and is about as effectual

Priorities people

Eddie Howe please

Jay Harris
227 Posted 10/10/2019 at 18:58:45
Steve,
you are spot on there mate.

I worry about the pressure being heaped on Silva and the players for the West Ham game.

I always remember seeing HK1 walking onto the pitch at HT in the various semi finals (yes lads there were quite a few in the 80's) with a big grin and laughing and joking with the players.

I don't think some supporters realise the pressure on some of these guys. OK they earn a fortune and are much better off than their predecessors but it is still a lot of pressure.

Joe McMahon
228 Posted 10/10/2019 at 19:54:48
For those wanting Rafa, I've wanted him since Martinez, but was slated on heer because he called us a small club a few years ago. Well I always thought can we not move on and get over it. But then he also has a point. No CL football ever played by Everton (not even group stages), last domestic cup 1995 and a home ground the standard of Goodison Park (with it's dated facilities and obstructed views). In the world of global foorball he has a point.

Yes Everton have History, but that's what it is - History, and until Everton can create some more history then Rafa is correct. For example Everton have historically had more sucess than Spurs, but here and now in 2019 which is the club with more appeal and in theory the bigger club?. We need this new stadium ASAP.

So yes I still want Rafa

Tommy Carter
229 Posted 10/10/2019 at 19:56:07
I’m encouraged by comments on this thread and other threads. It appears Blues are pragmatically minded about bringing in Benitez.

An outstanding manager. And there are not many of those about.

Richard Keys has made comments that this is a very realistic prospect and one that Benitez is open to.

I’m not a fan of Keys by any stretch but his reputation as a journalist has always been strong.

Steve Ferns
230 Posted 10/10/2019 at 19:57:05
Jay, I listened to the Echo Podcast Alan Myers did with Joe Royle on. Brilliant listening by the way, skip the rest of the Echo stuff by all means, but the ALan Myers interviews with the big names like Royle and Harvey are essential listening.

Anyway, Royle talked about 1994. He came in and saw a miserable side he thought was a soft touch. Southall was past it, Watson's legs had gone, and the defence was shite. He disagreed. He watched the reserves and promoted a few and gave more protection to the defence and suddenly we were a team transformed. Watson had 7 more seasons and Big Nev was quickly back to his best. We won the FA Cup on the basis of that defence and without signing anyone.

Was also interesting in hearing how he said he left, and that he is amazingly good mates with "Agent Johnson" and they both regret a moment of foolishness on their parts for the "mutual consent" that neither actually wanted, and if Clifford Finch was not on holiday, he would have prevented it! The only mention of uncle Bill was that he asked Joe if we'd win the cup after we won in the 3rd round, and Joe said he thought so and uncle Bill put a big bet on it and won a big amount, but never told Joe exactly how much. Apparently he likes a bet.

Oh and Joe said a miserable team is a losing team. Well our team looks a right miserable team.

Kieran Kinsella
231 Posted 10/10/2019 at 20:13:54
Steve

I read something similar from Johnson. Seemingly they had a row, Johnson thought Royle was indicating he was quitting, while Royle thought Johnson was firing him. Somehow they both ended the conversation under the impression the other had terminated the relationship. How bizarre. And this was a time before we had Russian owners talking to through translators to Portuguese managers.

Andy Crooks
232 Posted 10/10/2019 at 20:15:51
Dave @ 218, you may not have read anything to suggest they are not good at their jobs. However, have you actually SEEN anything to suggest that they are.
Is it credible to believe that while manager after manager has been sacked, " the legend", has been doing great work and that we have been shite despite his arbitrariness.
Jay Wood
[BRZ]

233 Posted 10/10/2019 at 20:16:41
Steve, on that tale of BK putting a big bet on Everton to win the cup that year, I also recall a radio interview with BK following that Wembley victory in which he told the following tale:

Allegedly, on the eve or the morning of the cup final he went into a London bookies with the intention of 'laying off' his 'Everton to win the cup' bet; that is, to cover some of his potential loses ("it was a very big bet I put on Everton to win the cup and I was looking to cover myself").

And - lo and behold! (this is why I prefaced the tale BK himself recounted as 'allegedly') the teller at the LONDON bookies who took the bet was a scouser and a blue, who of course recognized Kenwright.

"Youse can't back against us! We're gonna win!" said the teller and BK was persuaded not to make the covering bet...and the rest, as they say, is 'istory.

Anyone else have recall of this radio interview? I'm sure it was relayed on Radio Merseyside.

Even at the time I had my doubts about the veracity of the story, effectively publicly broadcasting that he, as a director of the club, thought to/did back against his own side to lose. Not exactly Pukka, is it?

Steve Ferns
234 Posted 10/10/2019 at 20:22:40
Kieran, he said someone had rung ahead and said Joe is on his way, he's coming to resign. Johnson asked if he was going to resign, Royle said do you want me to resign, and it went on and on. Royle described is as being like a farcical comedy which ended as a "mutual consent" when neither man actually had wanted a parting of the ways. Royle was clearly hurt by Johnson telling him he'll replace him with a "World Class Manager". Turned out to be caretaker Dave Watson and then when no one wanted the job, Howard mark III. Has to be one of the biggest ever "if onlys". Also Royle was arguing with Johnson as he wanted to sign Tore Andre Flo (so that rumour was true) and Mark Schwarzer.
Dave Abrahams
235 Posted 10/10/2019 at 20:22:53
Andy ( 232), no I couldn’t say I’ve heard anything good about one of them, quite the opposite, but I honestly don’t know.

To be honest if we knew what sort of wages they are on then that would tell how good they are, more or less.

Kieran Kinsella
236 Posted 10/10/2019 at 20:25:51
Steve

I remember that rumor. Funny because while little known then, Tore Andre Flo did well at Chelsea. Similar to rumors Kendall II quit because we wouldn't sign Dion Dublin who also went on to do well

Steve Ferns
237 Posted 10/10/2019 at 20:25:53
Andy, I sincerely believe that the "Legend" is on the periphery. I watch all the videos, I speak to whoever I can, whenever I can, and everything I see and hear is of the man doing little. He clearly works with the strikers, but other than one to one work, his role is one the sidelines. Therefore, he survives as he has no culpability.
Steve Ferns
238 Posted 10/10/2019 at 20:27:51
Kieran, Royle said we had to pay £2m to sign him. Johnson wouldn't pay that for a player on a free transfer in 6 months time. Royle said we won't get him in 6 months time as we won't be able to offer big enough wages. Chelsea got him on a free and paid him more than any player on our books. Royle then points out that Chelsea sold him for £12m, and that he reminds Johnson of this all the time.
Steve Ferns
239 Posted 10/10/2019 at 20:30:07
Joe Royle Interview on the Echo Royal Blue Podcast on acast, also on iTunes and other places.
Anthony A Hughes
240 Posted 10/10/2019 at 20:30:54
All credit to Steve for defending Silva and I do enjoy reading his posts but the stats don't lie. Even more so the league position doesn't lie. This is Silva's team, and after three transfer windows he's taking us backwards. As much as I hate the revolving managers door I fear for our club with this guy in charge.
His CV in English football is dire, we need better.
Kieran Kinsella
241 Posted 10/10/2019 at 20:31:19
Steve

I seem to recall having a tiny squad that year to that extent Watson could hardly pull 16 together on match day. Rideout agreed to fly back from China as an auxiliary midfielder. Then bizarrely in light of Flo, etc we were suddenly flash with cash when Smith rolled into town. Or so it seemed anyway up until that Newcastle game. What a mess.

Kieran Kinsella
242 Posted 10/10/2019 at 20:33:21
Off topic oxymoron but I would love it if Northern Ireland beat the Orange men tonight. Shane Lavery formerly of this parish is on the bench. Not that assed about "getting one over Koeman" but I always enjoy an upset.
Mike Doyle
243 Posted 10/10/2019 at 20:34:11
Jay 233] How times change. Tony Kay ( the player my late father reckons was the best he saw in an Everton shirt) lost his career over a football bet while Bill made himself a few quid.
Steve Ferns
244 Posted 10/10/2019 at 20:34:18
Kieran, the previous episode of the Alan Myers Podcast is a telephone interview with Paul Rideout. Poor sound quality, but worth a listen. You'll enjoy Rideout's China story and leaving his last game on the back of a motorbike to make his flight after we insisted he play!

Interestingly, he said the game is too fast for him now and if he was a player now he would play midfield. He thought he did well there and had the game for it. But he was great in the air, and I'd be robbed of my best childhood memory.

David Currie
245 Posted 10/10/2019 at 20:39:03
Eddie Howe for next manager, I wanted him before Silva.
Andy Crooks
246 Posted 10/10/2019 at 20:41:01
Anyone reading my post @ 232 might well wonder where the word" arbitrariness" came from. So do I. It's not what typed( I think)
Steve Ferns
247 Posted 10/10/2019 at 20:43:45
Andy, we just assume you're not sober! Only joking.

Has anyone seen this: Link
"super-computer" prediction nonsense but might interest some. It was in the Daily Post today.

Jay Wood
[BRZ]

248 Posted 10/10/2019 at 20:51:35
Mike @ 243.

When I was listening to that radio interview, the fate of Tony Kaye immediately entered my thoughts.

What a travesty of 'justice' that was.

Tommy Carter
249 Posted 10/10/2019 at 20:52:18
Hindsight is a wonderful thing but Flo would have been a tremendous signing. It probably would have given Royle an opportunity to offload Ferguson for decent money that summer too.

Royle was not Ferguson’s biggest fan, despite the mutually beneficial first 12 months they shared. Royle did not feel that Duncan was consistent enough and couldn’t motivate himself for the lesser games.

Flo would’ve guaranteed more time on the pitch and probably 15 league goals a season.

That said, results were very poor prior to Royle leaving and his own signings had been generally poor with the exception of Speed and Kanchelskis who were big money at the time and nailed on performers.

Kieran Kinsella
250 Posted 10/10/2019 at 21:02:11
I'll have a listen Steve. Yeah I remember Rideout's bullet headers. He was a great signing after he had sort of slipped after the radar while in Italy for a bit.
Steve Ferns
251 Posted 10/10/2019 at 21:32:50
Tommy, Royle was very complimentary about Duncan. But he slipped at one stage and said he “wasn’t a team player”. I bet he’d have gone further had he not been talking to the Everton fan base and ergo Duncan himself.
Brian Hennessy
252 Posted 10/10/2019 at 21:34:37
Straight Red Card for Moise Kean, who had come on as a second half in tonight's U21 game in Dublin against Rep of Ireland
Frank Wade
253 Posted 10/10/2019 at 21:37:32
Saw that Brian. Just tuned in because I heard Kean had come on as sub at HT. Harmless enough foul for a trip, Irish lad pushed him, he pushed back and bang, two red cards, over and out.
Steve Ferns
254 Posted 10/10/2019 at 21:37:40
What for Brian?
Kieran Kinsella
255 Posted 10/10/2019 at 21:39:19
well at least he won't get injured
Steve Ferns
256 Posted 10/10/2019 at 21:40:32
Cheers frank.

Every cloud eh Kieran?

Dave Abrahams
257 Posted 10/10/2019 at 21:49:46
Will he be suspended for league games or future international games?
Alan Johnson
258 Posted 10/10/2019 at 21:52:24
Mourinho rumour gathering pace. We gotta go for Eddie Howe. No ego and would have a great chance here with better players.
Frank Wade
259 Posted 10/10/2019 at 22:00:55
Just International games Dave. Irish lad sent off has been in the Spurs 1st team squad, a guy named Troy Parrott. By the way, Phil Neville's son was called up for Irish u19 team.
Dave Abrahams
260 Posted 10/10/2019 at 22:08:03
Frank (259), thanks. What's the connection with Phil Neville's son and Ireland? The Nevilles seem to have strong links to Lancashire... must be from the other side of the family.
Steve Ferns
261 Posted 10/10/2019 at 22:12:11
Dave, Phil Neville’s wife has an Irish parent.
Frank Wade
262 Posted 10/10/2019 at 22:13:29
Yeah Dave, his wife has Irish connections. After the changes in nationality by Jack Grealish and Declan Rice, maybe some players see International under-age appearances for Ireland as a route to stardom. I expect Grealish to be capped by England soon, judging by his form with Villa.
Andrew Keatley
263 Posted 10/10/2019 at 22:14:21
Awful reaction from Parrott - reaching for his face then hitting the deck. Kean did push the lad, and firmly, but he pushed him in the chest and any contact with Parrott’s face looked accidental (as Kean’s hands slid off Parrott’s chest).

Serves Parrott right that it earned him a second yellow to make it 10-a-side.

Tommy Carter
264 Posted 10/10/2019 at 22:30:48
@251 Steve

I'll try and give that a listen. My input re Royle and Ferguson mainly comes from Royle's book and a decent source at the club from around that time. It is not to say that Royle didn't rate Ferguson or like him, but more to say he was greatly frustrated by Duncan. Flo was seen as a more consistent alternative.

This is also set against the back-drop that the club felt they could get £7m for Duncan that summer with Man Utd amongst the potential suitors.

None of it worked out and Royle left. A shame as it looks now, in hindsight of course, that his plan was a solid one.

Don Alexander
265 Posted 10/10/2019 at 23:26:34
I know Mr Kenrick just hates any mention of our neighbours but, in all truth, Moshiri might learn a lot about how to successfully own a football club from the FSG owners of THEM. They, FSG, Yanks with zero knowledge of English football but with proven success in USA team ownership, wiped out Liverpool's debt immediately they arrived (as did Moshiri for us, of course) and then dispensed with the FSW, Woy and then Rodgers in their bid never to ever appear (never mind finish) in the bottom half of the Premier League (bottom three is not part of their history).

At the same time, their scouting network enabled successful recruitment of expensive very talented players, usually sold on for even huger money, and finally, under Klopp, they won the European Cup (again) and quite possibly the league title this season, after a gap of 30 years.

Moshiri seems unable to grasp any of this know-how or "project" management. Instead he continues to rely on the "services" of Kenwright, a bloke who professes to know about Premier League football but, unfortunately for every true Toffee, has only once reached fourth under his 30-year tenure, largely devoid of hope or excitement in the process.

Kenwright has done the opposite of Liverpool. When they realised football had moved on from the cosiness of "the bootroom", they, under FSG, saw to it that the backroom staff is devoid of any former player in the coaching set-up. That seems to me to be a provable benefit to that club's success.

Instead Kenwright chose not to find the likes of Paisley, Fagan, Dalglish, Souness and Evans (all of whom won at least one top trophy), instead signing on Unsworth, Ferguson, Jeffers (the last two not even being qualified in coaching anyone) Ebbrell and so on, all of whom are still there every day at Finch Farm regardless of who "that bloke" is wearing the manager's bib on the training ground this season.

Ladies and gents, you couldn't make it up. Sherlock, long dead, could still identify who our biggest problem employee is in achieving success, or, this season, mere survival.

Dave Williams
266 Posted 10/10/2019 at 23:33:07
Andy, I haven't a clue whether Duncan's good or bad as a coach. He has survived a few managers... maybe on sentiment but maybe he is good? I just don't like to see guys touted for the sack if no-one really knows whether they are good at their job or not.

I have no love for him or Jeffers but wouldn't call them crap unless I had something on which to base such a view. With Silva, however, there is plenty of evidence — starting with the Premier League table!

Darren Hind
267 Posted 10/10/2019 at 23:39:18
"I'm encouraged by comments on this thread and on other threads. It appears that blues are pragmatically minded about bringing Benitez in."

I had to read that one twice... So the same 2-3 of people post on different threads and we are to take this to mean "Evertonians" are "pragmatically minded" about bringing in the odious Benitez?

Benitez would be about as welcome as a box of fireworks down a coal mine... And don't get me started on Moyes. What's going on here? Are people trying to find the best option or the worst?

There are very few things which will test the loyalty of this fan base like the appointment of either one of these fucking jokers. Both have insulted our club.

What I don't get is we actually have fans supporting Benitez's nasty little jibe.

Some of Everton's appointments in recent years have made me nearly die of shame. Mercenaries who clearly did not give a flying fuck about this club. To think this club went on bended knee to Mr anti Football... and now we have people screaming for men who have openly taken the piss out of them?

Pride and dignity boys, pride and fucking dignity.

Unless this club (and its fanbase) can rediscover those two qualities, we will never again bask in the sunlight.

Jay Harris
268 Posted 10/10/2019 at 23:48:23
Not just pride and dignity, Darren, but a bit of integrity thrown in. If either of those two came back after belittling the club, it would show major question marks over their integrity — or have they both just reached the bottom of the managerial pit such that they would condescend to manage Everton??
Darren Hind
269 Posted 10/10/2019 at 23:58:24
It makes me cringe when I read people banging on about the ability of former players working at the club. Especially when these people so very clearly know fuck all about the jobs they do.

This club has spent fortunes paying dud managers to spend hundreds of millions on woefully inadequate players, to play painfully Ugly football... and all these people can do is bang on about a few bit-part players looking after the kids.

If their houses were on fire the first thing these people would do is train the hose pipe to the garden shed.

Jer Kiernan
270 Posted 10/10/2019 at 00:12:35
@Darren 267 and Jay 268

I totally agree with respect to the club proven track record and integrity,

Eddie Howe it is so... so fuck the Spanish waiter, he is a spent force anyways, hasn't won anything in decades and got Newcastle relegated and then avoid the drop only just

Moyes? No thanks... and even hearing Phil Neville been mentioned? Shocking!

It's Eddie's time — he has earned it.

Don Alexander
271 Posted 11/10/2019 at 00:34:01
Darren, I agree with your opinions on Moyes and Benitez but your slavish devotion to Unsy mystifies me. He is "comfort" personified at Finch Farm (hence he's spent years there with only Oxford. reportedly, ever seeking to sign him up, and, for the avoidance of doubt, that's not a ringing endorsement of his talents as far as I'm concerned).

He said that whilst he was temporary manager Kenwright was constantly on the blower to him, "advising" him. To me, this makes it obvious that he sees himself, and I don't blame him, as an acolyte of Kenwright, totally dependent on his patronage for well-paid employment at a bog-standard Premier League club forever grasping in the dark for success.

I suspect that Unsworth, Ferguson, Jeffers, Ebbrell, Baxter and god knows how many more, fully identify with Kenwright in sponging a living/fortune ("fortune" in Kenwright's case without doubt) at a club where mediocrity is the acceptable norm, for decades.

Tommy Carter
272 Posted 11/10/2019 at 02:29:34
Darren, you're stuck in the past, pal, and sentiment will get us nowhere.

I may know ‘fuck all' about what Ferguson and these other coaches do. But what I do know is that, since he was promoted to the team agenda, we haven't been very good. That may be the fault of several managers but he had been one of very few consistent features during that period.

Also, he has no coaching credentials outside of what he has done at Everton. Turning up at the club after a 10-year hiatus of doing absolutely nothing in the game, living in Majorca I believe.

So am I skeptical about what he offers my club, yes. To say the very least.

As for Jeffers, don't get me started. You are going on about integrity and have the front to defend Jeffers by association. Insult the club? This guy did this when he was employed by our club, not a rival.

You can take your selective integrity and pride and do what you want with it. A regime of our old boys would send us plummeting into oblivion. Don't forget, these people were the mainstay of a terrible period in our club history. None have any kind of coaching credentials outside of Everton.

The game has moved on. Managers like Howe offer a calculated gamble that the likes of Rafa don't. I despised Benitez, but I despise the situation my club are currently in and I know he has the ability to change that.

There is also the added side bonus that any success he brought us would antagonize the RS no end. They'd hate for Rafa to become one of us, they'd hate him forever.

I suppose you couldn't stand Peter Beardsley?

Kieran Kinsella
273 Posted 11/10/2019 at 03:32:42
Interesting the Mail report Silva expected to be sacked this window and has been given three games to turn it around. Sky say no change is imminent and Silva is popular at the club.

I can't see the logic in the Mail story. Any kind of deadline eg 3 games means they're ready to pull the trigger. If so, why wouldn't they do it now during the break?

I imagine they've told him to sort it out and emphasized the importance of the cup game which happens to be in 3 games. Someone at the Mail has spun that into something else.

[I have ZERO inside knowledge so this is just my speculation.]

Dennis Stevens
274 Posted 11/10/2019 at 03:51:24
Aye, Kieran, 3 matches doesn't really make much sense. If the change isn't to be made now, then surely the obvious point is after the next 5 matches when the next break comes 'round in November, between the Southampton & Norwich City fixtures.
Darren Hind
275 Posted 11/10/2019 at 05:57:31
Tommy Carter,

Well done lad. admitting you have a problem is the first step to recovery. We just need to take that final step and be completely honest with yourself. Once you alter your statement from"may know fuck all" to a "definitely know fuck all" – only then will you manage to park this half-witted point.

I won't get you started on Jeffers because I kinda already know that you know as much about his role as you do Ferguson's.

We have tried all your flavours of the month.

We gave the pansy from Norwich a whirl. We've tried the dour Scots. We went with the relegated Spaniard, The Dutch superstar. Fuck me we even sank as slow as getting in the fireman. Now we are back with your fanboy dream – The exotic foreigner... Remind me again, how did that work out?

Weighing up that lot I look at Unsworth and, in comparison, he looks like Alex Ferguson.

Your sycophancy to Rafa won't wash with the majority of Evertonians. They are not blind to the recent past. When Newcastle decided to go for your "safe" option he took the fuckers down. He is a spent force, a shot bolt. A has-been. That would be reason enough, to give him a wide berth, but if you need more, then let's bring in the fact that he is a Grade-A gobshite. One who has taken the piss out of you... and you want to offer him the opportunity to turn us down in front of the entire world? Stand up, man, FFS

BTW; I loved Beardsley. I loved Sheedy, I Loved Alan Harper. I've even met Sammy Lee on a number of occasions and found him very likeable.

Damn, eh, Tommy; another theory out of the window... But that's what happens when you insist on discussing stuff you know little to nothing about

Tommy Carter
276 Posted 11/10/2019 at 06:36:44
@ 275 Darren

I’m not sure what you mean when you say I know nothing about these things.

I list reasons above for why I think Ferguson is lucky to be in a job. Other than this, being a good coach or not is entirely subjective.

‘Won’t wash with most evertonians’. Know them all, do you?

I tell you what will wash with every football fan, their club being successful and even bringing a Pot home.

Eddie Howe has never done this. Benitez has. Benitez took the Newcastle job in the March and then went unbeaten for a good few games before they got relegated. He hardly took them down.

He then got them promoted first time and had respectable finishes back in the top flight.

It’s not sycophantic, it’s just realising that we need a manager who wins things.

You list above the different types of manager we have tried. Common theme being, none of them had ever won major trophies so no wonder they didn’t lead us to success. It’s not difficult to figure out. Martinez won an FA cup and he brought us 1 season of promising football and a couple of decent cup runs.

We even gave rhino a try and the first team imploded under his guidance and were plummeting down the table.

Let’s try a proven winner.

My preference would be for Mourinho simply because of Benitez’ LFC links and attitude toward us in the past.

But my overall preference is for a winner.

Peter Warren
277 Posted 11/10/2019 at 06:57:06
Tommy a winner like a Koeman who has won many things in management and in his career?
Darren Hind
278 Posted 11/10/2019 at 08:38:51
The trouble with you Tommy is, You don't recognize the difference between a winner and a busted flush.

Lets be clear here, Newcastle were savable. That was the reason they paid so much to bring Benitez in the first place. He failed. He most definitely took them down. I didn't see anyone else in the dug out when the Geordies offered far too little far too late.

Rafa Bentiez has been one jammy bastard. The luck his team enjoyed on the road to Istanbul defied belief. Even when he got there the team he selected spent the first half being mauled. They were 3-0 down at HT going on six. Only enforced changes (not his substitutions), logic defying luck and a Roy of the Rovers performance from the captain he inherited turned things around.
The shite won that cup in spite of him.

You think he is a winner. I think he was exposed when for the first time in his career. he didn't inherit world class players in Newcastle.

What a winner he proved to be there.

You do not, as you claim, give valid reasons why Ferguson shouldn't be at the club. If you did, they have been deleted.
You are painting yourself into a corner by banging away at junior coaches, because every time you are challenged, the fact that you don't know what you are talking about is evident to all.

I don't want to insult you Tommy. You are clearly a passionate knowledgeable Evertonian, but you are beginning to sound like Don Alexander.

Alexander`s "suspicions" without evidence are utterly worthless. His repeated admiration for the Liverpool is based entirely on his belief they don't employ former RS and therefore support his ill informed views. One fact sales serenely between his ears is that their entire history has been founded on employing former RS.

Still fuck the facts. Lets turn the place into a launderette.Lets gossip rather than debate. Lets let our ill informed "suspicions" run Riot.

That way we dont have to face the reality an owner and his latest chosen manager in utter fucking turmoil

Joe McMahon
279 Posted 11/10/2019 at 08:46:38
Day off work, so trying to keep up with all this banter, opinions and ranting.

I agree with many different things Darren, Tommy and others have mentioned. Sammy Lee is a good guy, Unsworth is way too cosy at Everton and yes he did say he spoke to Bill every day. And finally Tommy you despised Rafa Benitez, wow that's strong, next you'll be using the phrase Hate.

As usual we are going to have to write off another season and live in hope for next season. Gonna be tough with the reds though. Happy Friday everyone!

Steve Brown
280 Posted 11/10/2019 at 09:07:59
Preston, Wigan, Soton, Palace (plus countless other dross clubs) and Watford. Now the ideas proposed for our next manager include Bournemouth, Burnley and Dalian Yifang. Or we could rehire Moyes, the manager who treated this club with contempt and has been dumped from Man Utd, Real Sociedad, Sunderland and West Ham. The common factors are no trophies, mediocrity and relegation.

We all come on here to complain about the club and its lack of ambition. But our standards are low based on this thread. If we don't set higher expectations them we can write off the next twenty years as well.

Kevin Prytherch
281 Posted 11/10/2019 at 09:21:39
As much as I enjoy reading the banter on here, it does get irritating when people offer facts that are blatantly wrong.

Tommy - we were plummeting down the table under Rhino??? We were 18th when he took over, we were 13th when he left. His league record was won 2, drew 1, lost 2. Scored 10, conceded 10. The Southampton game skews people’s perception of his time in charge.

We didn’t plummet down the league, we had a couple of heavy defeats (dead rubber with reserves playing vs Atlanta and against Southampton). Other than that we performed as expected.

Jer Kiernan
282 Posted 11/10/2019 at 10:26:35
Can somebody explain to me PLEASE ? how the fck Eddie Howe is supposed to win the PL or Champ Lge or unearth the next Ronaldo while managing Bournemouth FFS ?

The point with Eddie is he he HASNT won anything but he is in his prime as a manager and is waiting to be given a crack at a big job where he can go to next level

Also would be nice to have a manager who you can actually understand /relate to in press conferences instead of watching for "tells" (running fingers on their eyebrows ala Martinez & Silva) to try to guage WTF is going on

No ego down to earth great work ethic, I don't think he willl win the PL or CL but is the right man to lead our great club into BMD playing attacking entertaining football

He is also a likeable /personable guy would could bridge that link between players/team and fans which is a vast gulf right now

Benitez won stuff years ago would cost a bomb and spend his time making excuses (funny also how he appears to have gone to China for EVERY other reason on earth except the money ? wanker )

Tommy Carter
283 Posted 11/10/2019 at 10:37:05
Kevin, I apologise. His record of 5 defeats in 8 games was a brilliant one.

Call them dead rubbers or whatever you want. They were matches he was managing as Everton boss with a stadium filled with thousands of loyal paying fans. He had a chance to win those games and he didn’t, we got utterly embarrassed.

Brian Murray
284 Posted 11/10/2019 at 10:47:33
In a nutshell, we don't need ex-kopites or football dinosaurs or up-and-coming managers that probably could waste another 3 years.

Jose is a winner and so what if he ends up falling out with the board etc? It will put us on the map again plus win a few derbies and maybe the odd cup. Maybe even show these gobshites how to defend and attack at pace (minus Schneiderlin, Sigurdsson and Coleman).

Tony Everan
285 Posted 11/10/2019 at 10:48:47
With regards Benitez, he is one of the best managers available at the moment. If anyone is qualified to getting us organised and playing like a proper team it's him.

Nobody likes the fact that he is ex Liverpool and disrespected us in a wind up remark, that he will regret making, when he was under pressure [ we got a win and a draw against them in 2007].

The fact is that it is a primarliy a results based business. Whoever we get in will be rightfully criticised and dismissed if they are losing games every week. If Benitez came in and turned the whole thing around and had us organised and winning, taking the game fearlessly to the sky six, surely that is compensation enough for a stupid wind up remark 12 years ago.

I am not hell bent on going for Benitez but to dismiss him entirely because of an errant remark may not be best for our club.

At the amended motto goes ''Only the best [available and willing] is good enough ''

Ray Smith
286 Posted 11/10/2019 at 10:57:08
Darren various/numerous.

Do you or have you fished, freshwater/sea?

Your posts and observations to others posts almost, without fail get a bite!

I’m not doubting your observations for one minute, but you do make me laugh.

Is there a Victor Meldrew in you somewhere?

Please keep posting as you do 😎

If you do/did fish, you would be the one that’s always catching fish!

Brian Harrison
287 Posted 11/10/2019 at 11:20:58
Will this club ever get back to be able to challenge for a top 4 place, never mind competing to win the league. You have to say judging what has happened over the last 30 years doesn't fill you with confidence that those days can return. We moaned for years if only we had a rich owner we would be back dining at the top table, but despite Moshiri giving successive managers lots of money to spend, we are still dining in the Greasy Spoon rather than the chic Michelin restaurant we all hoped for.

Yet our remarkable fans are the only thing that has been good about our club during the past barren years. selling out Goodison week after week and even more remarkable selling out our full away allocation. Easy to do when your club is winning trophies, but to guage a real fan base see how well they are supported home and away having not won a trophy in such along time. I really feel for our away fans, its quite a few years since I have been to an away match although I still have my season ticket and havent missed many home games in the last 65 years of watching the Blues. Every time there is a glimmer of hope we could be moving in the right direction, it is quickly extinguished before we have had time to enjoy the feeling.

I think my overwhelming thought now is frustration, this club has apart from Arsenal spent the longest unbroken run in the top flight yet we seem just to be there to make up the numbers, rather than have a chance of winning anything. I thought when Moshiri came in and listening to his long term ideas it seemed we were about to become the club we once were. You cant criticize a man who has pumped hundreds of millions into the club, for very little return. Yes you can say his choice of managers wasn't the best, but maybe the managers he really wanted wouldnt come. The very best manager look at a clubs standing, do they compete to win their domestic league every year, do they qualify for the Champions league on a regular basis, sadly the answer to these questions for Everton is an emphatic NO.

So we are left buying mediocre managers and mediocre players and pay them way above what they are worth. So when they leave they do so in the knowledge that very few other clubs would pay them the money they have earned at Everton. Can we turn things around I hope so for our fans deserve so much more than they have had to endure, I just wish the players cared half as much as the fans if they did we would be in a far better place than we are now.

Iain Latchford
288 Posted 11/10/2019 at 11:28:34
Arguably the worst thing that happened to Everton was getting money. Previously we had to be smart with our signings and look for value, with the likes of Cahill, Arteta, Jags etc. Now we pay huge fees and massive wages to the likes of Sigurdsson and Schneidelin.

The cheaper signings seemed to give/care a lot more.

James Hughes
289 Posted 11/10/2019 at 11:30:50
I just cannot believe people would coutenance Benitez as our manager. It was bad enough letting him through the door as the opposition manager. When he left Newcastle there were collective sighs of relief. It was Rafa first, second and third, everyone else came after that.

it was shameful letting Allardyce in but this would be worse.

Brian Williams
290 Posted 11/10/2019 at 11:41:50
Having Benitez as our manager would be like your darling daughter marrying the guy she's seeing, who you can't fucking stand!. You''d really want him to look after your loved one but you'd never like the fucker!

And no matter if he made her happy you'd always wish it was someone else!

Dennis Stevens
291 Posted 11/10/2019 at 11:46:22
Tommy #276: "We even gave rhino a try and the first team imploded under his guidance and were plummeting down the table." Er, no Tommy, it didn't. That's utter rot.

Firstly, Unsworth wasn't "given a try"- he was caretaker manager & about the most effective we've had.

Unsworth gained 7 points from the 5 League matches he was in charge of, a somewhat better rate of return than the current incumbent this season & without a whole season & 3 transfer windows to prepare. In doing so he dragged the Club out of the relegation zone & into mid-table. You may consider that we were embarrassed in the 2 Europa League defeats but I consider the 4 points he picked up from the 2 League matches in between to be of far greater significance, considering our League position at the time. I certainly wasn't embarrassed by the teams performance in his first match in charge where we lost away to Chelsea in the League Cup.

Moshiri, in his wisdom, then spent a fortune to recruit Allardyce who, despite far more time to work with the players & a transfer window to bring in new players, failed to perform any better in the League than Unsworth had. I presume that you also consider that "the first team imploded under his guidance and were plummeting down the table"! Moshiri made the mistake of acting in desperation rather than hope & got nothing for it but a big bill.

I hasten to add that I don't expect Brands/Moshiri to appoint Unsworth as Silvas replacement, I'm sure Brands already has an active shortlist - just in case! However, I'd have no qualms in seeing Unsworth step into the breach if required again. Had Moshiri shown a bit of faith & given Unsworth the time we wasted on Allardyce perhaps he would have proven he was the man for the job, but it didn't happen so we'll probably never know.

Joe McMahon
292 Posted 11/10/2019 at 12:02:45
One of the problems having Unsworth like Moyes, is that it's all still part of Kenwrights golden dream. May as well stay at Woodison while we're at it. Wouldn't it be nice to think big.
Derek Taylor
293 Posted 11/10/2019 at 12:12:27
Just as predicted, Sky are screaming ' Everton have no plans to sack Silva.' After the disasters of his reign so far, Moshiri will be running scared to add another name to his list of failed managers and will, no doubt, give his latest flop an inordinate amount of time to put things right.

Of course the more games he loses, the harder the job will become although if we are still in the relegation spots at Xmas, the owner will be a fool of a different dimension if he lets things go on.

Trevor Peers
294 Posted 11/10/2019 at 12:12:43
We need Jose no more losers, I think there's a chance he may come this time.
Jim Wilson
295 Posted 11/10/2019 at 12:42:07
I agree Trevor.
Jose is the no brainer who is available.
He will keep a settled team, make us hard to beat and will win games.

Bentitez would only work taking over a Top 6 side, he makes too many changes, and took Newcastle down when he had plenty of time to sort them out. He is a no.

Tommy Carter
296 Posted 11/10/2019 at 12:50:52
@290

Unsworth was a disaster waiting to happen. With the squad of players he had you’d expect some results from games vs Leicester who were not that good at the time, palace, Watford, West Ham and Southampton. 7 points was an ok return considering.

The European results told the real story. We faced some quality and got hammered.

Had he faced that kind of quality in the league games we would have been anhialated. He looked clueless at times and couldn’t decide on a system or starting eleven to use.

Had this been Boa Morte then I doubt evertonians would be so forgiving. But because it is meat n potatoes rhino who gave his all then let’s cut him some slack.

Don’t forget that this was a distinctly average to poor player who amassed a great deal of games for the club during the worst period in modern history.

Tommy Carter
297 Posted 11/10/2019 at 12:55:40
@294 Jim

It's Mourinho for me. Certainly should be our number 1 choice.

We are his chance to prove that he can still cut it as a top manager that can build a side rather than add the finishing touches to an already big club.

He built a phenomenal side at Porto. He could do this with us, I'm sure of it. The likes of Mina, Kean and Richarlison would absolutely flourish under Jose

Raymond Fox
298 Posted 11/10/2019 at 13:12:52
We can talk managers all day, but if our players are not top 6 quality then whoever eventually does come in will be destined to fail.

What we do need is for Moshiri's Russian friend to join the party, have a good clear out of the club from top to bottom while retaining the youth system.

Hire a top manager, a Mourinho or a Benitez who have the tee-shirts, no wannabes or inexperienced ex-players, please. Next, spend an absolute fortune on top 6 quality players.

No doubt that's a wish list but, without doing something very close to it, we will be going round in circles for a lot longer yet.

Kevin Prytherch
299 Posted 11/10/2019 at 13:13:07
Tommy 283 - I presume the thousands of loyal fans are away fans you're talking about, because out of the 7 games he won the only 2 home games.

Considering this was a team that hadn't won away from home for the best part of a year, he couldn't be expected to beat Leicester or Chelsea (which was close, and we ended the game with Baningime and Davies on the field – I'd love that endorsement for some of the younger players now).

Whatever your feelings on Unsworth, let's not let facts get in the way of opinions. We had a couple of horrendous results but did not plummet down the league.

Ken Kneale
300 Posted 11/10/2019 at 13:28:55
Don. Interesting post. I too sadly (albeit through gritted teeth in the case you mention) have to say we have played our hand extremely badly compared to others.

The common thread through all of these dark days is Mr Kenwright and his love of cronies who then have to stay loyal because they could not get their remuneration elsewhere without possessing a few bits more of knowledge and skills. It seems an irresistible conclusion they should all be cleared from the club without sentiment if we are truly to regain the prestige a club with our footballing history should enjoy.

Daniel A Johnson
301 Posted 11/10/2019 at 13:34:03
Mourinho, the Ego himself, will never manage EFC. He's waiting for Pochettino to implode or Zidane to jack it in.Spurs and Madrid are his level – not a club languishing in the bottom 3.

Part of the problem at Man Utd was that he was being embarrassed by Guardiola across the road, making him look inferior. So he's not going to get into the same situation with us and Klopp.

Joe McMahon
302 Posted 11/10/2019 at 13:57:15
Jim @294 - Rafa didn't take Newcastle down (as such) he gave them a fighting chance and got them straight back up. That's like blaming Darren Moore for WBA's relegation.

We can want who we want but Everton are not Spurs or Arsenal and the longer we remain in the bottom 3 (and Liverpool Top), it's going to be even harder to attract anyone worth having.

The nightmare is Unsworth or Moyes with a new stadium in Crocky in 8 years time, or just a new Bullens.

Steve Ferns
303 Posted 11/10/2019 at 14:10:34
Can I please ask you all to: think about it?

If you want a new manager, think about it carefully.

First of all, consider where we are:
How many games played: 8
How many games left: 30
How many points off the target of 6th: 7
How many points off last year's position: 5
How much money have we got to spend in January: ? *

What's the manager's short term brief?
What's his long term brief?
What's your aspirations?
Is this manager short term or long term?

What do we have to offer the new manager?
Who are our rivals and how can we get ahead of them?
How can we achieve your short and long term targets?

* Paul the Esk, in the comments on another thread, insinuates that Everton do not have much money to spend. I consider him an expert in his field and cannot argue against that. I am also very much aware of FFP implications and that we are close to our limit.

It's going to be different for all of us. But here's my thoughts, but I'll reiterate once again, I don't want Silva sacked, I don't think he will be sacked, I do think he'll be given time and I do think he will turn it around.

Anyway: What's the manager's short term brief? Recover to top half position
What's his long term brief? Champion's League football
What's your aspirations? To win the league
Is this manager short term or long term? Long-term

What do we have to offer the new manager? Expensive squad, limited transfer funds, but further funds will be available in the summer.
Who are our rivals and how can we get ahead of them? Leicester, West Ham & Wolves
How can we achieve your short and long term targets? Good coaching and shrewd purchases with slow progression over a number of seasons but requiring patience from impatient fans.

Consider the candidates, not realistic but as nominated by you guys:

1. Jose Mourinho. Estimated salary £25m per year. What's Jose good at? Winning trophies. But he spends a fortune on players, does not use the youth team, and relies on others (Andre Villas Boas - scouting of opposition and analysis; Brendan Rogers - youth; Steve Clarke - first team; Rui Farai - first team, Baltimar Brito - first team) to coach. He was a good coach himself, but takes a supervisory role once the other coaches are used to doing things the way he wants them done. But note, all the guys on that list, from his first spell at Chelsea, including Farai, are no longer working with him.

Jose did something similar to what you would want him to do with Everton, but it was almost 20 years ago. Since then, he's a manager who can win, often does win, but spends a lot of money in order to do it.

So do we offer what Jose would want? Can we give him the resources to assemble a team he would like? Would he work with what he has?

2. Rafael Benitez. £12m a year. What's Rafa good at? Analysis. He's perhaps the greatest manager at analysing the opposition. He's up there with the likes of Bielsa. An obsessive who seems to enjoy watching 4 hours of tape a night, after going home, just to be sure. When he left the evil Reds there was said to be a whole room in his house filled with boxes of VHS tapes.

Rafa ain't a coach. He's the analyst, and relies on others to coach. Most particularly Francisco Martín Ayestarán Barandiarán better known as Pako. Have a look at Rafa's success with Pako:
2 leagues, 1 Champions League, 1 Europa League, 1 Cup, 2 other trophies
Without:
1 Europa League, 1 Cup, 4 others (Super Cup, Charity Shield and second division)

Rafa has never had the same success without his former right hand man. That's despite managing Real Madrid, Inter Milan (as reigning European Champions), and Napoli.

But the question is what does he offer Everton, how can he help us achieve our goals? World class analysis for sure, but coaching wise he relies heavily on the talents of Mikel Antia, a renowned coach for sure, but is he as good as Pako Ayestarán? Benitez is also first class at recruitment, and did wonders for Newcastle, identifying limited players to perform specific roles to achieve short term, but limited, success. He was also able to oversee the development of younger players like Longstaff, Lascelles, and others.


3. Eddie Howe. £4m a year.
What's he good at? Coaching an attacking brand of possession football.
Issues though are over his defensive acumen. That said, his minimum target is to stay up and he does that with relative ease. So, any defensive failings can be overlooked because ultimately he has not suffered relegation, unlike say Roberto Martinez, where you could say his willingness to be pragmatic ultimately cost him. Whereas Howe has not had to be pragmatic because,for all his failings, he has not ultimately failed. Had they been battling to stay up on the last day and needed a 0-0 draw, could he park the bus and scrap it out? Who knows.

Of all the managers mentioned. Howe is perhaps the weakest on recruitment. Howe has in the past faced criticism for this. But has since put a Richard Hughes in charge of recruitment, so like a director of football, but answerable to Howe so Howe has the final say. This means he's not quite a manager like Moyes was, and perhaps could adjust to Brands being in charge of recruitment and just get on with coaching.

I think Howe would also be good at working with what we have and would probably not need to demand a whole load of signings unlike the others on this list.

The question on Howe is ultimately about whether he can "step up", as we all perceive Everton to be a level above Bournemouth. So Howe needs to deal with increased pressure to obtain results. He needs to win more games, and so he will need to cut out the bad runs his team go on, and the goals conceded.


Others … I intended to complete this list but something has come up and so I'll leave it there for now. I encourage others to think about it carefully and what these guys offer us, what we offer them, and how they could achieve the goals you would set them. Too many do not appear to have thought things through.

Iain Latchford
304 Posted 11/10/2019 at 15:06:41
Steve, I admire your faith in SIlva, even if I do not agree. Trust me, I hope you are right and I am wrong.

Do you think Sousa leaving could have been the catalyst for our dramatic downturn in form? He's taken over a newly promoted team and taken them to top of the Portuguese league.

I know it's early days but it's an impressive start. Conversely, we've been atrocious since he left. Could it be that he was brains behind the operation, and Silva is lost without him?

Tony Hill
305 Posted 11/10/2019 at 15:16:08
Thing is, none of us has a clue about what any of the alternatives can offer or achieve at Everton. Most of us thought Koeman was ideal. We'd be taking a leap of faith regardless.

I agree with Steve Ferns that we should stick with Silva but his massive problem is that the players, or most of them, look bewildered and uninterested. Get the attitude side sorted out and he has a chance and I still think we've seen some very promising stuff under his management, albeit in short bursts.

If he doesn't get the players behind him, then I don't see how he survives.

Tommy Carter
306 Posted 11/10/2019 at 15:19:54
@302 Steve

I think a minimum we could expect from Silva is an improvement on last season. Early signs this season are that he will not deliver that. And, within the context of the money he has spent, that must be considered failure.

What's more is that circumstances have dictated that there was a real window of opportunity to go beyond this.

Chelsea have been embargoed and have a coach with limited experience. Man Utd are completely awry and Spurs are in a state of short term transition.

That has meant top 4 places well and truly are up for grabs. Instead of putting us in a position to capitalise, Silva has us occupying relegation territory. This is in spite of a very favourable fixture list to begin the season with.

We are due to play a lot of good teams, twice. Realistically how many points can we expect from home and away fixtures against: Leicester, Man Utd, Tottenham, Liverpool? Probably none. That's 8 games right there.

Given our recent away record, how many fixtures away from home can we reasonably expect to win? 2 or 3? Leaving room for 10 defeats.

These are extremely bleak signs and I'm afraid a change must happen. And it's a systemic change required as this club can no longer compete at the level it needs to.

Mike Gaynes
307 Posted 11/10/2019 at 15:23:41
Steve #302, I have no idea who our next manager should or will be, although I don't believe for a moment that any of the three you just mentioned will be in frame, as you guys would put it.

But I firmly believe that your belief that Silva "will turn it around" is based on sentiment, not your usual analysis. There is simply no way, in the long run, that any club can overcome a goal-every-two-games disadvantage on set=-pieces. We cannot defend opposing corners and we cannot score on ours -- we are the worst in the Prem on both. And Silva has done, is doing, and will do absolutely nothing to fix the problem, because he lacks the capability.

Even during our purple patch last spring, the problem remained obvious -- we just benefited from a whole lot of luck. I can remember at least five clear, easy set-piece chances missed by opponents during that stretch (Liverpool, Arsenal, Man Utd, Palace, Spurs), four of which would have cost us points had they been converted.

No matter what you think of Silva as a manager otherwise -- and your opinion of him is higher than anyone's -- you must admit that in this area he is simply hopeless. Analyze the data with your usual dispassion, leaving aside sentiment, and you cannot come to any other conclusion.

Steve Ferns
308 Posted 11/10/2019 at 15:23:43
Thanks Iain.

Joao Pedro Sousa manages a provincial team that was newly promoted and at first glance it's a very romantic story and strongly hints that he's a great coach. Therefore, rumours abound that it is he, and not Silva, who responsible for all the stuff Silva was heavily promoted for (by people like me!).

This provincial side are not what you think they are. They were purchased by wealthy investors who wanted a cheap team in the second division for a project. One of those investors is Jorge Mendes. Jorge Mendes is up there with, and perhaps ahead of, Mina Riola as the world's foremost "super-agent". Jorge Mendes and his co-investors have pumped not insubstantial sums into this club, and then on top of that, he has influenced their transfer policy to the extent that 80% of the signings are his players. He has effectively bought a team to showcase a number of up and coming players who he can then sell and make a profit.

Jorge Mendes is the one behind Wolves. When the wealthy Wolves owners (richer than Moshiri) took over, he approached them and came to an agreement over influencing their recruitment that started with them appointing his client, Nuno Espirito Santo, as manager. They then set about signing his clients, namely Ruben Neves, Joao Moutinho and even big coups like Rui Patricio (the Portugal international keeper).

Because of the influence of Jorge Mendes and the players he has at his disposal, expectations were high for Familicao. JPS has done a wonderful job though, because, no one expected him to be able to get ahead of the big three (Benfica, Sporting and Porto). Familicao play Benfica next. This is their first big test, and Sousa's first big test.

As for the loss to Silva. It is both huge and negligible. Sousa was not the coach, Silva is that himself. So he's lost nothing there. What Silva has lost is the word in his ear, the sounding board, the guy who says no. Last season, JPS was seen on the touchline next to Silva, whispering in his ear. I've yet to see Boa Morte do that yet, he's hardly seen on the touchlines. It seems Silva has now got people who have not been with him as long as Sousa and so, and may, that's MAY, lack the bollocks to tell him he's wrong.

Ron Marr
309 Posted 11/10/2019 at 15:33:13
Silva has managed Everton for 46 games, the proof is in the pudding: as a Premier League manager, he's mediocre at best.

Kieran Kinsella
310 Posted 11/10/2019 at 15:51:02
Steve

The conflict here as that since you have faith in Silva, you're looking at a replacement in terms of long-term, goals eg Champions League, and even shorter term goals such as signings next summer.

I am concerned that we've got negative momentum going that could lead to relegation. Depressing as it is, I am thinking any new coach's remit right now should be to not get relegated. So yeah, I am probably advocating another Sam the Fireman short-term rescue act that kicks the can down the road. But I am looking at it as these least of two bad options.

If Silva stays, best case: we miraculously turn it around maybe finish top 7. Worst case, we get relegated, with massively negative goal difference and are encumbered with devastating debt in the Championship that could finish off the club.

If he goes, best case we probably finish 7th, worst case, I am certain we'd at least survive in the prem with Sam or some such person, say 17th, then we have to start again next summer.

Of the two, to me, option two is better because the downside isn't as bad.

Jay Wood
[BRZ]

311 Posted 11/10/2019 at 16:05:25
Steve @ 302. I'm genuinely not interested in your – or anybody's – analysis or nominations for potential replacement managers. There is, as yet, no vacancy for the position.

Quite frankly, the hypothetical 'debate' is a quarrelsome one and for this TW reader, a tedious one.

The only part of your latest post that interests me is the opening list of questions you ask others to 'think about carefully'. I can reassure you, Steve, I have and do think about Everton's plight VERY carefully. I'm quite sure I am not unique in that as an Everton supporter.

Indeed, I raised pretty much all of the points you make in a post last week, but framed it differently. I thought of it from the owner's perspective and how he will wish to protect his investment.

I suggested that the Everton ownership and board presumably have a road map of what they want the club to achieve, with short-, medium- and long-term goals, each with their own KPIs – key performance indicators – to achieve within each given time frame.

KPIs are hopefully allocated to each department essential to the well-being and continued growth of the club: stadium development, marketing, new and improved income streams, the academy, player/staff recruitment and not least of all, performances and results, be that of manager, coaches, individual players or the team, etc.

The summer of 2018 with the dismissal of Sam Allardyce and Steve Walsh, the appointments of Brands and Silva and a stiff yard broom to the administrative set up at Everton signalled (at least to me) a new approach and a reset by Farhad Moshiri.

There have since been many public statements by Moshiri himself and his man in the boardroom, Alexander Ryazantsev, of expected KPIs and when they should be met by.

Very publicly at the last AGM, Moshiri quite clearly declared, with his manager present, that the playing side had not delivered the desired results to date in that still ongoing season.

Ryazantsev has also previously stated that it was expected Everton would be qualifying for European competition and challenging for domestic cups by this season.

Now the results of the first 8 Premier League games of this season you ask us to consider would, in my model above, fall into the short term KPIs of manager, coaches, player and team category.

And on any criteria we have fallen well, WELL short of even the most modest of expectancies. All the more so given our benevolent fixture list in that time. This is a clear FAIL for all concerned. It constitutes 20% of our season, so is a valid data range from which to draw conclusions.

Primarily, performances and results are the remit of the manager. Unfortunately, this is not the first and only time in his 16 months tenure at Everton that Silva has failed. This latest failure imitates exactly his previous failure of last season, a 14-game, near 3 month drought which returned just 3 victories and 9 defeats. That equates to 37% of last season.

The identical similarities are:

* A disjointed and dispirited side lacking harmony, guile and fight
* Poor defending of set pieces
* A preponderance on possession at the cost of speed and incisiveness in midfield and attack
* Low chance creation that naturally leads to a poor goal return
* Schoolyard tactics by the manager when attempting to retrieve a game from a losing position

The data is damning of this manager in this regard:

* 22 times under Silva the team has failed to recover to win having conceded the opening goal
* 23 times his Everton team has conceded from a dead ball situation (a Premier League high) – 45 times in total in his 3 Premier League posts with us, Watford and Hull

This is a strong indicator that the manager is either not learning, or simply not capable, of turning around such damning statistics.

Now no fair-minded Evertonian will fail to acknowledge that both Brands and Silva were initially encumbered by a lot of failed or mediocre players on long, high salaried contracts, who were not contributing anything on the pitch.

In that regard, whilst some still remain on our books, Brands has done extremely well to clean house as he has. Simultaneously, he and Silva have been backed in the transfer market and brought in their own preferred players.

Personally, I would argue there have been no out-and-out failures in our recruitment since Brands joined. Against that, many are seriously underperforming this season. This is exasperating because the individuals and the collective team have all shown they are capable of better than they currently offer.

It's not as if Silva is starting this season with a whole new starting XI, or squad. The overwhelming majority have had a full year and more under his tutelage and so should be well-drilled and familiar with what he expects from them on the pitch.

The players themselves cannot be completely exonerated, but the overall responsibility of team performances and results always, always, ALWAYS lies primarily with the manager.

Whether it's the tactics, lack of charisma and poor motivation, poor communication - all offered by different Blues trying to figure out what the hell is going on - who knows?

But Steve, if he continues to fail on short terms KPIs as he has done on two occasions nows, he will force Moshiri to take a decision on him and he won't be around to achieve the medium to long term goals the club has surely set.

There is much more at stake than retaining Silva simply because he has just recently bought a house on Merseyside (bless!) as you keep repeating. That detail will have absolutely ZERO bearing on whether to retain Marco or not if the results don't pick up.

Moshiri simply cannot run the risk of Everton FC falling out of the cash cow that the Premier League is. If that happens, Bramley-Moore Dock won't happen. We are just as likely to do a Leeds, a Sunderland, a Bolton, and tumble even further down the league, or even have our very existence threatened, than bounce straight back. The Championship is an exceedingly competitive league.

On this Moshiri has previous. Koeman had a considerably better first season than Silva. Didn't save him, did it? Poor as it was, the early results in his second season that saw him dismissed after 9 games (against MUCH sterner opposition) were better than Silva's 8 games this season.

The position we find ourselves in can only improve with WINS. Performances and aesthetically beautiful football I'm really not arsed about right now. That can come later. And if Silva doesn't start delivering those wins, he will be gone. Have no illusions about that, whatever the short-, medium- or long-term goals are.

As to your question "What do we have to offer the new manager?"

It's the Premier League, Steve. We are Everton. Put the right package together and we can attract high-quality candidates who, if they get it right, will be canonised by the Blue faithful.

Kieran Kinsella
312 Posted 11/10/2019 at 16:12:51
Steve

To clarify also on my last post, I stated "I am certain we'd at least survive in the Premier League." I realize this is me making an assumption which obviously I can't substantiate without a crystal ball.

I am wondering if our professional background is affecting our views. You're an attorney, used to fixing problems, overcoming obstacles, and finding loopholes. So you're optimistic Silva can find a way.

My background is in insurance and risk so I'm inherently concerned about avoiding worst-case scenarios and devoid of optimism... lol!

Darren Hind
313 Posted 11/10/2019 at 16:31:03
Tommy, stop embarrassing yourself, lad.

Having had your claim that Rhino had us plummeting down the table exposed as yet more ill-informed drivel, you persist.

"Call them dead rubbers if you want" fuck me. Do you understand the term ?

Every single one of those fans knew Koeman had already taken us to the exit door of that cup... At least you would have thought so.

These games came in handy for Unsworth. He didn't have any time to work with the team Koeman had left in free fall.

He could use them to see what player were and what players weren't up for the relegation fight. Every right-thinking fan would trade those priceless points which moved us up the table for a worthless win in a cup we were out of.

I guess there is always one or two exceptions... the ill-informed exerts who think he was the guy who had us "plummeting down the table", when everyone else knows he was the one who took us back up, would be among them.

Darren Hind
314 Posted 11/10/2019 at 16:31:04
Tommy stop embarrassing yourself lad.

Having had your claim that Rhino had us plummeting down the table exposed as yet more ill-informed drive, you persist.

"Call them dead rubbers if you want" fuck me.

Salim Rehman
315 Posted 11/10/2019 at 16:36:45
I don't understand why people are talking about Eddie Howe or Sean Dyche, they're good at the clubs they are at now, not for Everton, If they were that good, why aren't the likes of Spurs or Man Utd approaching them?

The problem is not only in the management at Everton it's also with us the fans, we don't think big, Big is someone like Jose, Benitez, Ten Haag, Ancelotti, Simeone...Winners, Champions League experience. Howe & Dyche are already out of the Carabao Cup...

Steve Ferns
316 Posted 11/10/2019 at 16:36:45
Jay, we ain't got £25m a year to give Mourinho, and we ain't got £12m a year to give Benitez. Eddie Howe earns more than Marco Silva does, who is on half what Allardyce and Koeman were on.

If Silva finishes 17th, and so keeps us up, then what's the financial loss to the club? £15m. If he then keeps faith with Silva for another season, despite finishing 17th and spends a nominal amount in the transfer market, and we are again clear of relegation, then it's not costing Moshiri any more money. He can still go on with the Stadium.

Because we are Everton and it's the Premier League, he can sell us for a profit with the new stadium built and get out. You have to accept that there is at the very least potential for this thinking by Moshiri.

If he keeps blowing £100m to £200m on transfers every year or two, the club is not going to make him anything but a loss. And I don't believe for one second Moshiri is in this for any other reason than to make money. Last thing he will want is a short-term Allardyce option and then another new manager.

Mike, I disagree. We could have beat every team we lost to this season, and we should have beat all of them but Man City. we had chances against the lot of them, and if we can convert those chances we can win. It's not like Koeman were we will getting well beaten and not getting those chances. No one has had more shots on target against Man City that we had for over 3 seasons. You might want to dismiss things like that, but for me, there's enough signs there that we can turn it around, and I believe we will.

Tommy Carter
317 Posted 11/10/2019 at 16:49:04
Darren, You may disagree with me, as I with you, but it doesn’t make either of us right or wrong.

Perhaps extend your vocabulary so you can express yourself in a more civilised tone.

Mike Gaynes
318 Posted 11/10/2019 at 17:02:48
Steve, I'm not "dismissing" anything, although I'm bewildered by your view of how many chances we could've/should've converted and how many games we should have won, because I've seen us repeatedly outplayed, and I've seen few "sitters" missed. But that's just a matter of opinion.

My post focused entirely on the one issue that I believe dwarfs all the others, one I have not seen you address. Everton is an out-and-out laughing-stock even here in the US over the set-piece problem. Some quotes and paraphrases from the NBCSN commentators and studio hosts on the Burnley game:

"Everton have nightmares about set-pieces." "Everton are a nightmare on set pieces."

"Corner for Burnley. Time for Everton fans to hide under the couch."

"Unbelievable. That's the same play Burnley ran in the first half that Pickford saved. How do Everton not adjust?"

"Offside on a corner-kick routine. I'm sorry, that's just ridiculous." "Hardly how that was set up on the training ground, I'm sure."

"Marco Silva just doesn't seem to be able to address this. It's been a major issue at his previous clubs as well, at Watford and Hull City before that."

"Let's see if Everton can get something, anything out of this corner kick. No, apparently not."

When you're being laughed at on a soccer telecast here in the Colonies, that's about as low as it gets.

If you think I'm wrong about this issue, or I'm making too much of it, please tell me why.

Roger Helm
319 Posted 11/10/2019 at 17:14:32
I am no fan of Silva but I honestly don't think sacking him is the answer. I think the malaise is much deeper and lies with the board.

The recruitment has been terrible recently. Coaches appointed just for being old boys down on their luck; managers who have been relegated or have luckily inherited a team someone else built; we sell the best striker, best defensive midfielder and one of the best centre-backs in the league – the spine of the team – and don't replace them; buy a bunch of journeymen at inflated prices.

I can't see any improvement until Kenwright goes and we get the chance to get in some proper sports management people. We have never been the same since Martinez got rid of Moye's American conditioning coaches.

Kieran Kinsella
320 Posted 11/10/2019 at 17:16:16
Mike Gaynes

Is right. In the US now, inner-city drug dealers call street corner peddlers with the lowest take Evertonians.

Darren Hind
321 Posted 11/10/2019 at 17:19:12
No, Tommy, you are most definitely wrong.

By claiming Unsworth had us plummeting down the table you were not simply expressing an opinion. You were making shite up in an attempt to prove and support your point. Didn't wash.

I'm not overly concerned by the size of my vocabulary. There are nice words and everything in there when the occasion arises. They don't tend to surface when somebody so blatantly tries to pull the wool.

You don't rate Unsworth or Ferguson? Fair enough. You will not be alone... but try to stick with the facts. There are too many knowledgeable posters on here to be taken in by Launderette gossip.

David Pearl
322 Posted 11/10/2019 at 17:23:29
Holy crap, there's some long posts on here.

In essence, the run of form last season now means fuck all. We can not have a streaky manager, as he has been called. A streaky manager, ffs. How anyone can want Silva to stay is beyond me. I say what l see. If only Silva could change what he sees, when it isn't working. He can't. He isn't capable. He's making an incredible fortune and hasn't a clue. Not a clue. Can you imagine him playing charades? He'd probably do it with his arms folded.

Wolves manager, what's his face, played his winger Adama up front against Man City so he could use his speed. It worked. Well, fuck me. A manager with a brain who has the guts to try something different.

Moshiri and Brands did screw him over in not bringing in a proven striker... so as not to get in the way of Calvert-Lewin's progress. However, he does have other forwards in today's modern game that he should be getting so much more from. That's why I'm not overly critical of the players. Did Silva forge his badges? Maybe he printed it off the internet. I wonder what they do in those courses?

I trained with 3 teams here, 1 in Canada and 1 in Spain, who were so far ahead in technical aspects, making it much more enjoyable. I can't believe he is this bad. Maybe it's a confidence thing. This is going to be a long week waiting for this next game

Derek Knox
323 Posted 11/10/2019 at 17:29:03
Good post Mike Gaynes, I think most of us have had enough; even if somehow, Silva miraculously got a result against West Ham, it would only stave off the inevitable. Or if, and I 'm really pushing the boat out here, he managed a few good results to the end of the month.

How long would it be before he reverted to type?

Steve Ferns, having met you and read many of your posts on here, I respect your views and opinions, although I don't necessarily agree with them all, especially when it comes to defending Silva.

I think I speak for the majority, but I and everyone else in that majority have seen enough, and are fed up of Silva's stubbornness, his unwillingness to try anything different or to play some of the youngsters (even in the Cup matches).

I'm not advocating they should be on from the start, but it would give some hope both to them and the supporters to see them on the bench, and when as has recently happened, the game is crying out for something different.

Rather than the same tactics, similar bewildering substitutions, other teams are not afraid to use the same ploy, and more often than not, an emerging talent is unearthed on the Premier League stage.

Tommy Carter
324 Posted 11/10/2019 at 17:32:53
@ Darren

I'm not making stuff up.

The ‘plummeting down the table' was the wrong expression.

In my opinion, we were plummeting under Unsworth. Although the table does not suggest that, it is my opinion that 5 defeats in 8 does. Whatever the circumstances.

So take out the 'plummeting down the table' expression and there is nothing inaccurate in what I say.

With the squad he had at his disposal, wins at home to Watford and West Ham were very achievable.

To have expected something more with that squad away to a poor Leicester side, a poor Southampton side was realistic.


Don Alexander
325 Posted 11/10/2019 at 17:35:40
Tommy Carter (#317), our Darren is incorrigible when it comes to mistaking fact for his own opinion. He and Jay Wood (BRZ), both top Toffees mind (like you and me and'most everyone else on TW), are a particular hoot when they give it to each other on that basis.

See:- https://youtu.be/ZmInkxbvlCs for their likenesses, but Lord knows which one's the Black Knight.

Barry Rathbone
326 Posted 11/10/2019 at 17:35:41
It has to be Jose. He wins and always gives the impression he has a soft spot for us whilst hating the Red Shite with a passion.

His arrival would confirm we do have big money (dubious at the moment) but, most of all, he's a motivator he would have the fans and players at it in no time.

God preserve us from another 'philosophy' merchant who thinks "tactics" are the be-all and end-all... they're nothing without belief.

Footy is a simple game, the difficult bit is getting players to perform at or near maximum, week-in & week out. His own record shows he does that.

Anyone who can knock peak Barca out of the Champions League by utilising Eto'o at full-back, as he did at Inter, is a genius.

Re his Man Utd disaster, he still won trophies there, didn't he?

Amit Vithlani
327 Posted 11/10/2019 at 17:36:53
Steve @ 316, I disagree with these points:

"If Silva finishes 17th, and so keeps us up, then what's the financial loss to the club? £15m."

No, I am afraid not. It will be higher than merely the differential in league positions. The loss on sponsorships, commercial revenue opportunities, lower matchday income will mean the figure is significantly larger for such a poor finish. Furthermore, the club's cost structure will mean the revenue losses translate to a heavy loss. Also, I note that the differential between 8th and 17th in 2018-19 was £24m before any commercial revenues are taken into account.

"If he then keeps faith with Silva for another season, despite finishing 17th and spends a nominal amount in the transfer market, and we are again clear of relegation, then it's not costing Moshiri any more money. He can still go on with the Stadium."

As far as a 17th place finish is concerned, it absolutely will cost Moshiri more money. He will still have to shell out the league's 7th highest wage bill whilst Turnover is likely to shrink. Broadcasting revenues are very similar between the Premier League clubs. It is commercial and matchday revenues that are the differentiator. The club would need a fire sale of its top earners unless Moshiri agreed to make up the shortfall. 17th would be a financial problem for him.

"Because we are Everton and it's the Premier League, he can sell us for a profit with the new stadium built and get out. You have to accept that there is at the very least potential for this thinking by Moshiri."

If you are implying purely staying in the PL and having a new stadium means Moshiri realizes a profit, well no. He has spent £300m so far (?) and it seems the stadium will cost him £150m. Finishing 17th will cost him money in each of the next 3-4 years until the stadium is built, if the club merely survive.

He would need to sell the club for a value in excess of £500m to walk away with a profit. Any new buyer would then factor in a transfer kitty, wages and the whole works. Even if they spend half of what Moshiri spends, it's a £750m outlay. Such a colossal outlay would limit the number of potential buyers. If your theory was true, Newcastle – perennial survivors – would have been sold by now. Ashley is asking for £300m.

"If he keeps blowing £100m to £200m on transfers every year or two, the club is not going to make him anything but a loss. And I don't believe for one second Moshiri is in this for any other reason than to make money."

It is ridiculous for the club to pursue a transfer strategy of spending £100m-200m each year. Actively, under Brands, the club are seeking to buy younger players on lesser wages with a transfer fee of £20m - £30m. I expect to see no more than 2-3 each season from 2020. Moshiri & Brands clearly want to make the club sustainable. In doing so, it does increase his chances of making money (although I think he is in too deep and is now likely to lose money on a sale) but more importantly it reduces the club's dependency on him.

To achieve this, there is no doubt the club has to punch its weight; i.e. finish 7th/8th. Without this, he will need to pump more money unless there is a fire sale of the squad.

This is why I think Silva will be sacked if he does not turn our form around soon. As you have noted, the cost of sacking him will be low. If he is priced out of Mourinho and Benitez, he will simply go the next best the club can afford.

Jay Wood
[BRZ]

328 Posted 11/10/2019 at 17:39:52
Hmmm. Interesting, Steve.

I very explicitly said at the top of my previous post that I'm genuinely not interested in your – or anybody's – analysis or nominations for potential replacement managers.

Rather, my post carefully answered the opening questions you put to your fellow Blues (as you yourself requested), as well as highlighting how Marco Silva has and is failing within the different time frames you asked others to consider, with no evidence that he is either learning or capable of addressing such failings.

You ignore all that and instead turn (again) to the subject of possible managerial candidates (and their fictitious financial packages), about which I have no interest.

You then move on to a far-fetched scenario and justification of Moshiri not sacking if Silva just scrapes 17th place finishes for the next two seasons and try to present it as... what? Good accountancy? Good governance? Pragmatic leadership?

All you've done in your latest post, Steve, is reveal to me how far you will go in defending Silva in the face of all known evidence.

You compound this further by telling Mike that we should have beaten every team bar Man City this season, because "we had chances against the lot of them".

I am no knee-jerk fan. I access the manager, players, the team, on a game-by-game basis. But to try and claim as you do that we should have beaten every team we've played this season is a fantasy and has no basis on how those games played out over the full 90 minutes.

I would lend greater credibility to your views on the subject of Marco Silva, Steve, if you could acknowledge and address the very pertinent points that I and others have fairly and accurately listed as his failings in his tenure as Everton manager. Failings that were also evident at his two previous Premier League clubs, Hull and Watford.

But beyond saying 'he turned it around last season, he can do it again this season', you don't. You simply refuse to take into account the data, the performances and the results that increasingly tip the balance against him on his negatives against his positives.

Or are you seriously going to maintain, as you attempt in your last post, that bumping up against the relegation plimsoll line for the next two seasons will be tolerated and accepted by Moshiri?

Come on Steve. You're more intelligent than that. The fan base would be in uproar. Moshiri would HAVE to act – WILL have to act – if such a scenario continues in the next few weeks, never mind for the next two seasons as you speculate.

Kieran Kinsella
329 Posted 11/10/2019 at 17:51:48
Jay Wood

If you're not interested in talk of manager changes then why did you read his whole post which evidently you did as you were able to identify "The only part of your latest post that interests me"?

Then you add an additional sentence saying the debate is tedious, a comment which was both unnecessary and presumably adds to the tedium for those who perceive it.

Also, it's kind of hypocritical to post on a discussion forum that you're not interested in people's views when every post you make is akin to the epic of Gilgamesh. Just saying like.

Tony Everan
330 Posted 11/10/2019 at 17:53:31
Mike 318,

"Corner for Burnley. Time for Everton fans to hide under the couch."

If Silva's staying put, I'm going to DFS to buy a bigger couch, maybe one with an inbuilt periscope to check for the all-clear.

Ray Said
331 Posted 11/10/2019 at 18:08:48
I am not saying it's the way we should operate but a different model to throw into the conversation is the Chelsea strategy of NOT thinking long term about the manager /coach but actually building in a sense of instability that can drive success short-term.

The board's job is to think medium and long term about the club and the manager/coach is there to get the best out of the squad he has while he has the chance. They have not been looking to build a dynasty but looking at the immediate gains.

Someone will point out that they are changing the model with Lampard – I don't think so. If he fails over a couple of seasons, he will be gone. Failure leads to the door at their place. Look at the trophy haul they have had.


Stan Schofield
332 Posted 11/10/2019 at 18:18:13
Every manager we've had since and including Martinez has been criticised for being inflexible and arrogant, for failing to adapt tactics and player deployment. In addition, it strikes me that this is a criticism aimed at managers of other clubs when those teams are not playing well.

An extreme example (in view of his current popularity and success) is Klopp, who's head was being demanded only two years ago by many Liverpool supporters, who considered him inflexible, overly biased to certain players despite poor form, arrogant, and having no Plan B.

We could replace Silva now, which I would be keen to do if he hadn't shown any signs at all of making us play good football and of being able to turn things around. But he has shown these things. In quite a few games last season, we took opponents apart, the Gomes, Gana, Gyli midfield being one of the best in the PL. But despite doing that, our finishing was poor.

Since then, we've WILLINGLY sold Gana, and KNOWINGLY failed to replace Lukaku despite having poor finishing since he was also WILLINGLY sold.

I use the upper case to highlight that it was EFC who did these things, not Silva. We could replace Silva, but it would not stop EFC from continuing this knowing and willful tendency to lose our best players.

A new manager might improve us for a short spell, until EFC has another little spate of letting our best players go as soon as a suitor turns up with enough cash to make a nice profit, even though that nice profit is not used to replace the lost players with comparable or better.

The root problem is Everton, the club that Benitez correctly called small, and not Silva, who is likely just another 'here today, gone tomorrow' manager on Everton's hamster wheel of mediocrity.

Jay Wood
[BRZ]

333 Posted 11/10/2019 at 18:21:36
Kieran @ 328.

What an astonishingly dumb post.

1) I read TW. I don't possess presentiment powers that enable me to know BEFORE I read any given post the subject matter or content.

2) There are some posters on TW I totally ignore or skim over. There are others I will ALWAYS read, whether I agree or disagree with their views or not, because mostly you can guarantee their content will make interesting reading. Steve Ferns is one of them. You are not.

3) I have an opinion. I express it. It is not a directive that all must bow down to that view as the only valid one. And my opinion of the manager debate and the plethora of articles and similar posts is that it is now tedious to ME personally because nothing new is being said.

4) All the above 3 points deal with your final charge of 'hypocrisy', but I will add it is always a source of amusement when posters such as yourself don't engage in the actual debate under discussion, but rather, attack an individual poster for their posting style.

Yet I'm the hypocrite?

What's the unoriginal closing line to use here?

"Just saying like."

Darren Hind
334 Posted 11/10/2019 at 18:27:06
Leicester a poor side?

Koeman had taken us to the bottom three and we were in free-fall... Most of their team had impressed first by winning the Premier League, then by reaching the quarter-final of the Champions League.

Tommy Carter
335 Posted 11/10/2019 at 18:28:02
@331

I think the Gana deal was a sensible one.

Lukaku, on the other hand, was repeatedly criticised by many blues and still is. I was and still am a Lukaku fan, he was a terrific goal scorer.

I'm not convinced we needed to replace him like for like in terms of a single player with that goal return. The plan was and should remain to have 3 forward players all capable of hitting double figures. We were one player away from that last season. It was the hope that Kean would be that player.

Unfortunately Gylfi has lost any modicum of confidence he had and looks a shell of a player. We have zero creativity in this side. Our forwards have no supply line and that is where our main problem lies.

Defending set-pieces could be rectified by an effective manager. Having a style of play that enables the players we have to create chances at prove to be the biggest challenge we have.

The only thing you can really do in that instance is specialise in being incredibly tight at the back and then have the quality to take the very few chances available in the game.

Silva is not the man to execute that plan

Mike Gaynes
336 Posted 11/10/2019 at 18:31:22
Roger #319,

"...we sell the best striker, best defensive midfielder and one of the best centre-backs in the league..."

Sorry, but no, no and absolutely not.

Rom was a very good striker. He was never the best in the league. Not even close to Kane or Aguero. Nearest he came to being Premier League top scorer was 2nd, 4 goals back of Kane.

Gueye was brilliant, but he was never the best defensive midfielder in the league, not with Kante around.

And if you're truly claiming Zouma to be a primo-class centre-back, you need a big glass of wine and about 12 hours of sleep, because you've been working too hard.

For what it's worth, yes, we've failed to replace Rom, but we were never likely to. What little I've seen of Gbamin makes me think he was a fine signing who could be a very good replacement for Gana, once past the injury. And I think Mina is way better than Zouma was at the same stage last year -- until December, I thought Kurt was pretty much a flop, although he proved me wrong after that. So I don't think we miss Zouma a bit.

Steve Ferns
337 Posted 11/10/2019 at 18:38:08
Mike, I've not seen us outplayed. I've seen us fail to score, have more of the ball and more of the chances but never look like scoring, but I've yet to see a side outplay us. It's subjective though. You're entitled to your view and I'm entitled to mine. And the likes of Jay Wood can disagree all he wants, but I'm not changing my mind.

We could have won those games, should have won most of them. I don't think we've taken a beating off anyone and so I think there is still signs we can win against West Ham, and I believe we will. I also believe Brighton under Potter will allow Silva to press high up the pitch as they play out from the back at home. I believe we will get chances and I hope we will take them.

I then believe we will beat Watford. And 3 wins in a row would give Silva some breathing space, the team some confidence and we would not be out of the top 6 race. If anyone disagrees, that's fine. Moshiri and Brands are giving Silva the opportunity to turn it around, and that's all that matters.

Amit, Moshiri is only interested in profit. He's no Everton fan. He could get rid of Silva and hire a cheap manager. If he does get rid of Silva, then that's what he will do. He will not hire Mourinho on £25m a year and sanction a £300m spending spree. He's also not going to pay Rafa's £12m a year salary, and sign players who play his way, although I doubt this would cost anywhere near £300m. He's much more likely to go for an Eddie Howe type option.

I'm certainly not saying Moshiri won't sack Silva. I held my breath last weekend for that exact reason, though my head told me that Brands is likely to have taken Moshiri's hand off any panic button. The current run is not good enough, and it doesn't matter how many games we could have won if we lose 5 out of 8.

The only reason it matters we could have won them is when someone asks me if I am still convinced Silva can turn it around, then these are the signs to me that he can. The likes of Jay Wood can use them to score points if he wants (notice how he never gives his own opinion to be shot at but prefers to shoot down other people?), which is why I ain't getting involved in any tedious (his word) back and forths.

Derek Knox
338 Posted 11/10/2019 at 18:39:22
Tony Everan @ 329, I would, before going to DFS, for one of those custom couches with periscope and built in bullshit protectors, consult TW as I'm sure if that scenario developed the order could be the biggest one they (DFS) have ever had.

Surely there would be a decent discount for such a mammoth order, but I don't believe they will accept part-used season tickets as part of the payment. :-)

Kieran Kinsella
339 Posted 11/10/2019 at 18:41:49
Jay,

I would ask, if I fall into the category of people whose posts you ignore or skip over then how would you know that I "don't engage in actual debate." (For the record I debate, discuss plenty of things with plenty of people, I just took exception to your rather condescending seeming post.) But to spare myself another monstrously long response I won't ask that question.

Mike Gaynes
340 Posted 11/10/2019 at 18:44:12
Kieran, don't let anybody hurt your feelings. I love your posts. Even when I disagree, you're always witty. And always concise. And I learn from you. You just made me look up Gilgamesh.
Kieran Kinsella
341 Posted 11/10/2019 at 18:47:00
Mike 335,

I agree on those three. I think all around Mina is a better centre-back than Zouma. He wasn't helped by injuries last year. Keane and Silva have said language is an issue although he is working on it. Lastly, I partly blame Keane.

I read an interesting article from a Burnley fan who basically said Keane and then Tarkowski were better players technically than Mee, but Mee has the savvy and leadership to organize the backline. When he wasn't in the team they didn't do so well even though technically they were better players.

I think Keane did better with Jagielka as Jags also had that leadership quality. Mina may or may not but he obviously isn't able to demonstrate it if he is still learning the lingo.

Steve Ferns
342 Posted 11/10/2019 at 18:47:52
Tommy, if we have zero creativity in this side, then why did we create more shots on target against Man City than any other side since November 2015? Is this not the very definition of creativity? And none of them were long-range speculative efforts, they were proper chances.

This side does not have a creativity issue, the issues are in defence, at set-pieces, converting the chances and fighting spirit when they concede a goal. And yes, Silva can do something more about each of them.

Mike Gaynes
343 Posted 11/10/2019 at 18:50:59
Steve #336, I've seen us outplayed on a number of occasions. I've seen us outworked and outhustled frequently. And I've seen us out-coached consistently. But I guess we're watching the games through different sets of bifocals.

But you still haven't mentioned my elephant in the room. So I guess I'll tuck him into bed and make him rest up for West Ham. When he will no doubt reappear on the first corner kick.

Amit Vithlani
344 Posted 11/10/2019 at 18:53:45
Steve @ 336; I agree with your sentiments in this post. I too, don't believe Mourinho, Benitez or Wenger will come. It would require the entire structure and philosophy sought under Brands to be torn up. I do not think Brands or Moshiri would do that.

The specific issue I was not in alignment with was the implication in your earlier post that financially, 17th & a new stadium would be enough for Moshiri to walk away with a profit. I don't think so. If he is in for a profit, he is going to need someone to spend £500m + underwrite transfers.

As Newcastle have shown, being perennial survivors in a 50,000+ stadium is not enough to bring in a buyer for even £300m.

Moshiri needs top 7/8 each season if he does plan to sell once the stadium is built. The lure of a crack at the top 4 or top 6 is more likely to bring out buyers with deep pockets.

Tommy Carter
345 Posted 11/10/2019 at 18:55:19
Steve @341

No, this one-off game against a very good side missing it's first-choice centre-back pairing is not indicative. Give me the stats for the first games of this season and last season and compare.

Steve Ferns
346 Posted 11/10/2019 at 18:58:24
Mike, we ain't conceding goals because of zonal marking. We are conceding goals because our players are not winning the ball. If we played man to man, we'd still be conceding goals from set-pieces.

How many times has the man on the near most lost the first header? This is usually Richarlison? Calvert-Lewin is usually back post and he's slow to react, which might be his problem up top, that his reaction times are not quick enough.

Reactions are natural, but you can improve them through reaction related techniques. You also are much sharper when not under stress or pressure (as a losing side is) and when you're sleeping better (losing sides can struggle to sleep).

Silva needs to get someone better on the near post, as Richarlison is inconsistent there. I would use Calvert-Lewin at the near post and perhaps Richarlison will be able to react quicker at the far post.

Jay Wood
[BRZ]

347 Posted 11/10/2019 at 18:59:04
Steve @ 336.

"...notice how Jay Wood never gives his own opinion to be shot at but prefers to shoot down other people?), which is why I ain't getting involved in any tedious (his word) back and forths."

WHAT. TOTAL BOLLOCKS.

Within this very thread I offer very explicit opinions, as I do generally on all subjects Evertonian. It's your choice and your failing to not engage in them or challenge them with effective counters. Not mine.

Alas, Steve, you have a track record for this ploy. You enjoy the adulation that may come your way about your posts, but you tend to pout and get all defensive when challenged and incapable of addressing very legitimate counters to your own stated opinion.

I also suggest you step back and look at your own posting record before haughtily claiming you have no intention of getting involved in a tedious back and forth.

Pity. Once again, it's YOU that soils a perfectly civil and considered debate with false claims about another poster.

Steve Ferns
348 Posted 11/10/2019 at 19:06:30
Amit, I foresee his days of throwing money at us as over. I think it's reached the point where Moshiri thinks he's done enough and will sit back and let the coach and DoF he fought to get in do their thing.

Of course, relegation would be his worst nightmare. No one could deny that. But relegation shouldn't be a worry after 8 games, and with 30 left, and goals scored (not even goal difference) putting us in the bottom 3.

I still think Moshiri, Brands and Silva will be expecting a top-half finish, and I think Moshiri will wait until Christmas for that to play out. If we lose more and more games in a row, regardless of how well we do or do not play, then there will come a point when the manager will have to pay the price.

Steve Ferns
349 Posted 11/10/2019 at 19:07:35
Jay, deluded as always.
Jay Wood
[BRZ]

350 Posted 11/10/2019 at 19:10:37
Kieran @ 338.

Der! You really are a bit slow today.

Pay attention to what is actually written. I said Steve Ferns is a poster I always read, but you were not. I made absolutely no allegation that you don't engage in actual debate.

You took that out of context from my point #4 which accurately stated that your sniffy post @ 328 (and ONLY that post) was not engaging in the actual debate under discussion in THIS thread, but rather, attacking an individual poster for their posting style.

And you accuse me of posting 'rather condescending posts'?

Deee-licious irony and hypocrisy from you again.

Mike Gaynes
351 Posted 11/10/2019 at 19:26:25
Steve, I never mentioned zonal marking. Not a word. But if you really think having Calvert-Lewin and Richarlison on the wrong posts is the problem, all I can say is... oooooooookay.

(By the way, much of the time there is nobody at all on the back post.)

My opinion is that the entire problem can be summed up in one word, and you know what that word is.

Brent Stephens
352 Posted 11/10/2019 at 19:27:24
Steve #341 "This side does not have a creativity issue".

Re creativity, if I apply the "edge of my seat" test for home games and "on my toes" for away games, I've had very few "edge of seat" or "on my toes" moments this season.

Largely sat back in my seat at home and slumped back on my heels away from home. Our creativity in my view has been dire this season. Painting by numbers as opposed to colour, tone, composition, texture, atmosphere, form and shape.

Jay Wood
[BRZ]

353 Posted 11/10/2019 at 19:38:00
Steve @ 348.

Did you, or did you not @ 303 post the following appeal?

"Can I please ask you all to: THINK ABOUT IT. If you want a new manager, think about it carefully."

Putting aside how condescending that may read to some, did you not follow those opening remarks with a series of questions for others to 'think about'?

Did I, for one, not engage with you and answer those questions with my own thoughts, in a civil and reasoned response?

Or was that my mistake? That any questions you post on TW are intended to be merely rhetorical and not answered? That your views must be passively accepted, unchallenged, at all times?

Opps! My bad! I can see now why you call me deluded, thinking I had the right of reply with my own opinion.

How terribly presumptuous of me.

Kieran Kinsella
354 Posted 11/10/2019 at 19:57:23
Mike

It's cause Maguy next to him turns into a Gremlin in the rain so it throws Keano off his game.

Andy Crooks
355 Posted 11/10/2019 at 20:00:40
Interesting post, Daniel, does anyone remember the"Irish Mafia", on here back in the day? Frankly, I thoroughly enjoy the debates between Darren, Tommy, Steve, Jay, Mike, Kieran and the rest. A cup of tea, a fig roll and slowly read the thread. Passionate Evertonians giving their views. Top, top stuff.
Mike Gaynes
356 Posted 11/10/2019 at 20:02:15
Seems like the Amazon rainforest isn't the only thing burning in Brazil today.

Lots of Wood smoke in the atmosphere...

Kieran Kinsella
357 Posted 11/10/2019 at 20:07:13
Andy Crooks,

Fig roll? Now you're making me home sick. I forgot all about those but you've reawakened a craving in my dark soul.

Kieran Kinsella
358 Posted 11/10/2019 at 20:08:28
Mike Gaynes

That explains the odor, I thought maybe someone had "soiled" the thread again.

Tommy Carter
359 Posted 11/10/2019 at 20:16:19
I posted on here about Soucek a long time ago. He's a player that at club level has quite impressed me in a number of occasions. I will be interested to see how he gets on against England tonight.

He will never be a brilliant player but is very much a Moyes kind of signing. He's strong and very effective, a goal threat with a touch of class. In my opinion, he would do very well in the Premier League.

Denis Richardson
360 Posted 11/10/2019 at 20:17:08
All debate and opinions but it's funny how much effort is placed in the ‘who would replace him' or ‘who could we attract' box.

Fact is there are only 20 teams in the premiership and most cannot hold a candle to our longevity in the top league. It's one of the most converted and followed leagues on the planet.

We have a 40k average gate, an owner who will back the manager with funds and we'll pay a manager multiple millions in remuneration. All this and people are genuinely wondering ‘but who could we attract?'. Erm, I'd say quite a few given the above.

Re Silva, the league table, as they say, does not lie. Granted only 8 games in but we are in the drop zone. Not near it or moving towards it but actually in it. This after a starting fixture list you'd have hand picked given the choice (I.e. the games are going to get a whole lot tougher over the next couple of months).

Momentum is key and sorry to disappoint but we're not going in the right direction. Complete opposite in fact. Personally I never wanted Silva, I still don't know how he managed to even get the job with his record in England. Right now we're not losing due to luck. We're losing because the team is not playing well enough and the manager doesn't seem to know what to do about it.

Morale is non-existent and spirit sorely lacking. Evidence? As soon as we go a goal down It's basically game over - no fight in the team at all. That's down to lack of motivation, which is the managers responsibility at the end of the day. (Blame the players too but the buck stops with the manager.)

So, do we stick and hope he stumbles upon something? (Given he's still doing exactly the same thing he's always done, I'd argue that is a forlorn hope.) Or do we cut our losses and get someone else and take a chance given success isn't certain.

I'm in Camp 2. I think ANY half-decent manager can get this squad playing better, with more speed, aggression and spirit. it's not quality that's lacking.

Jay Wood
[BRZ]

361 Posted 11/10/2019 at 20:17:27
Daniel @ 353.

"Always hilarious how the ToffeeWeb mafia turn up “Hind” and “Wood” and the posts suddenly descend into personal criticism, vitriol and bickering."

Speaking for myself (and as someone whose posting style and engagement differs radically from Darren's), with regard to the particular sub-thread I have engaged in today, I am very comfortable with my own contribution and how I kept on topic.

I suggest you look more closely at the flow of the thread and how both Kieran and Steve are the ones who 'descend into personal criticism, vitriol and bickering' before implying as you do that I am the instigator and guilty party. I'm not.

I consider, as the one being unjustly attacked NOT on the subject matter, but on my posting style and civilly presented opinions, I legitimately twat their evident hypocrisy straight back at them.

"Just saying like."

Kieran Kinsella
362 Posted 11/10/2019 at 20:24:45
Tommy,

Soucek looks a little like Peter Crouch. He is one of a few pretty good players Slavia Prague have. TBH, I was surprised when England hammered the Czech's first time around with those players in the side.

Kevin Prytherch
363 Posted 11/10/2019 at 20:58:12
Steve 345 - "we ain't conceding goals because of zonal marking"??

That's exactly why we conceded in our last game. Twice, Burnley took advantage of our players positioned in zones around the goal and exploited the lack of players at the back of the goal. Keane noticed it, but wouldn't leave his zone.

It looks simple for the opposition, put the ball wherever our zones aren't and they'll stand a chance.

David Pearl
364 Posted 11/10/2019 at 21:11:28
Denis,

Camp A has only a 4 man tent. With Steve F inside there's only room for 3 more.

Its good to stick to your guns and principals while all around are losing their heads. So good for him. I have my own opinions based on what my eyes see in following formations and how they work and move. A few simple tweaks could solve our problems, and of course a ruthless streak both in finishing and defending.

93 points still to play for.

Enjoyed reading this board. I've never seen Geordie Shore or Towie but it can't be any more entertaining than this, can it?

David Greenwood
365 Posted 11/10/2019 at 21:21:54
Hi Marco, hiya pal, @347 and various.

We are going down as it stands. What evidence can you put forward for this top-ten finish?

Derek Knox
366 Posted 11/10/2019 at 21:31:07
Denis, @ 362, if I may quote you, kind sir. "I still don't know how he managed to even get the job with his record in England." — I think most are thinking exactly the same, but after a bit of research, I may have found the answer.

Do you recall the film Willy Wonka (aka Moshiri) and the Chocolate Factory? Well a young man named Charlie Bucket (aka Marco Silva) managed to luckily get a Wonka Bar with the Golden Ticket in it!

Mind you, he bought millions of them to increase his chance of winning, he was able to do this from all the compensations he has received for failures at the highest level.

Simples! :-)

Roger Helm
367 Posted 11/10/2019 at 21:47:23
Mike - yes I do work hard and yes I would like a large glass of wine, especially if you are buying. Perhaps my comments were hyperbole but Rom, Gana and Zouma I think are top class players who have not been replaced.

I still think the terrible recruitment at all levels – not only managers but coaches players and backroom staff too, for all I know – have led to our decline

Kieran Kinsella
368 Posted 11/10/2019 at 21:52:00
Derek 368,

Didn't said chocolate factory owner referee that game against Villarreal? I swear I remember people chanting "the referee is a wonka."

Brian Williams
369 Posted 11/10/2019 at 21:54:47
What about Gray Dunn's fucking caramel wafers, eh?
Tommy Carter
370 Posted 11/10/2019 at 21:58:47
@364 Kieran

Agreed. A smart team, the Czechs historically have produced some outstanding players.

Their playmaker Darida appears to have had a solid career but nothing spectacular. He is exactly the kind of player we are crying out for. He was constantly on the ball, trying to make things happen. Plenty of craft and skill.

Midfielders of this kind are severely lacking in the Premier League. The fear is probably that they will probably get over ran by the powerful giants in Premier League midfields.

Bill Gienapp
371 Posted 11/10/2019 at 22:33:50
Kieran (320) - Ha ha ha. Oh my god.
Brian Porter
372 Posted 11/10/2019 at 22:35:46
Denis #362, I'm in100% agreement with you re Silva. And if he is looking to change things up a bit for West Ham, can I just point out that a certain Mr Cenk Tosun won the game for Turkey tonight with a last-minute goal, his third in the last two internationals.

But then, Silva isn't interested in people who actually score goals, is he? Or that's the way it appears from his regular team selections and tactical set-up.

Jim Jennings
373 Posted 11/10/2019 at 22:57:53
Jay Wood (346)

Spot on. The amount of conjecture and speculative scenarios presented as gospel by Steve Ferns is ridiculous and he invariably throws his toys out of the pram when challenged on it by anyone (like Jay) with the time and patience to engage.

And yet he refuses to acknowledge the common denominators in every club his man Silva has managed in England, instead insisting we have outplayed teams who have sat back, picked us off and let us pass ourselves to death without offering any goal threat.

Eddie Dunn
374 Posted 11/10/2019 at 23:47:00
Well said, Brian. Tosun can score in the right system.

Oh, and Steve Ferns — come on, mate, we conceded at Burnley after a dry run earlier when nobody picked-up the man on the far post. It's brain-dead marking... zonal. Man-for-man and the guy doesn't score.

Jay Harris
375 Posted 11/10/2019 at 23:57:28
Mike Corcoran, you could have just stopped at "Keane can't defend".
Jay Harris
376 Posted 11/10/2019 at 00:00:53
Eddie,
I'm not having that. That goal should never have been allowed to stand and, if it was the RS, it definitely wouldn't have stood.

Barnes is clearly holding Schneiderlin off as he is trying to get to the ball to block it.

Now that's not to say our marking at set-pieces isn't a shambles for which Marco and Co should take the heat.

David Pearl
377 Posted 11/10/2019 at 00:19:13
Jim

Both Jay and Steve can have some insightful things to say and sometimes, even if l don't agree, it's interesting reading. I haven't the time or inclination to go into so much detail myself and just expect people to see what l see (which doesn't happen). Of course, picking out things like Rashford having the best xG in the league which papers over the fact he hasn't scored in open play for club nor country since last March. His goals being from the penalty spot.

Steve Ferns had a point in those earlier games we lost as we did look much the better team and controlled the games, (until it mattered...Hmm).

But yes, you are right in that teams have sussed us out big time and Silva hasn't got an answer. Worse still, he doesn't seem to even attempt to answer. The Man City game he changed the shape... we looked quite good after those first 20 minutes. And then he went back to the norm. Fekking why???

Not winning a game when we concede first is an appalling stat, embarrassing really for the players and damning for anyone that's for keeping Silva.

Maybe he needs to buy a Wonka Bar (as suggested by Derek) and he might just find another fucking formation other than 4-2-3-1. Or maybe next time Mourinho is in the stands watching he can pass him a note.

If we lose against West Ham, it might be the best thing all round. I hate saying that. We would get rid of Silva and still have 90 points to play for.

I think we are all going stir crazy without a game to talk about, hence these recent threads about the same thing over and over and the bickering. Some by myself, although my excuse is my newly acquired high blood pressure and being told l can't drink with the pills they've given me (which caused me even more stress).

Steve Ferns
378 Posted 12/10/2019 at 00:33:17
David, the xG doesn’t paper over the cracks it shines a big light through them. The fact that he has a higher xG than goals scored tells you he’s missing chances. His goals to xG is negative and is one of the worst in the league.

xG doesn’t tell the whole story, but if you make an observation like you did, then xG can usually help support that view.

Calvert-Lewin’s xG is low. This tells you he doesn’t get enough good chances. So whilst he’s not missing good chances like Rashford, he lacks the ability Rashford has to get into those positions or it highlights that Man Utd are getting him into position whereas Everton do not get Calvert-Lewin into position.

I think it’s a useful tool for analysing strikers and creativity.

Brian Wilkinson
379 Posted 11/10/2019 at 00:34:10
I just do not have a clue what Tosun has to do, to get an extended run in the team, in one week, benched the next.

We are clearly lacking a goal scorer, why not give the guy an extended runout.

Calvert-Lewin, as mentioned before, is a midfielder playing in a strikers role, why not just try the two together from the start.

Not just for a couple of games, give them time to build an understanding and I have no doubt we would start scoring goals.

Jay Harris
380 Posted 12/10/2019 at 00:34:57
David, I would change your doctor.

I've always found a nice glass of brandy is good for my blood pressure. Everton, on the other hand, are not.

Unfortunately I can't get rid of either.

Kieran Kinsella
381 Posted 12/10/2019 at 00:52:46
Brian,

I think Tosun and Calvert-Lewin would both do better with a partner upfront. Maybe we try them together?

Derek Thomas
382 Posted 12/10/2019 at 01:21:07
Silva won't turn it round for 2 reasons (maybe more, but these two are imo, key).

Firstly, he has no 17-day non-International Break to work with the players, like he had last time; secondly, he has no assistant to help him do it.

I don't know who is or should come in. But I do know the two I don't want: Moyes and the Fat Spanish Waiter.

For all I know, Moshiri and Brands will double down on Silva until they get fed up or reach the end of the season.

David Pearl
383 Posted 12/10/2019 at 01:42:49
Steve,

l do recognize the work and effort Calvert-Lewin puts in. I've been impressed with his hold up play and energy but l wish we'd use his speed better. I'd like to see him play more on the shoulder and less running into the channels I'd hope Richarlison was in. I'm sure if he was in the right place more often the goals would come. Silva seems scared to tinker with his shape, it's there!

Brian, he is a good all-around footballer but l'm not sure he's played a single 1st team league game for us or Sheff Utd as a midfielder. I started in goal, and then right back, then striker then centre back, and then midfield, and then striker... of course that was with south liverpool and whiston juniors. Maybe not the same. I was a tight footed Sheedy but with the running skills of Peter Kay.

Calvert-Lewin is getting to that age now, he has to deliver. He's improving still, which is a very good sign. Tosun has a lot to offer but was purchased by the previous manager, as was Walcott and the different styles perhaps don't suit.

Jay, it probably is more to do with Everton than drinking. Trouble is there's always a new drink to try. Its a bit like music or movies, better to go back to the classics. I've been through many stages. White Russians, Cosmos, Martinis, so many belgium beers (so little time), wine tours, ice wines... l once bought a bottle of scotch for £1500 as an 'investment" and drunk less than a week later. And if l know my history...

Mike Gaynes
384 Posted 12/10/2019 at 02:03:40
Jay #378, yes, Barnes is holding Schneiderlin, and it's a foul. But it's one that's rarely called, and well worth the gamble. And it's the sort of well-planned play that well-coached teams pull off all the time... and precisely the kind that we never, ever attempt on an attacking corner. Our training ground corners either go offside or get passed back into our own half.

Besides, the ref probably looked at it and thought, if they're dumb enough to let them run the same play twice and it works both times, they don't deserve the foul call.

Andrew Keatley
385 Posted 12/10/2019 at 02:24:27
Jim Jennings (375) - I have to agree with you about the certainty Steve Ferns seems to have in his crystal ball. For instance, his post at 336:

“Amit, Moshiri is only interested in profit. He's no Everton fan. He could get rid of Silva and hire a cheap manager. If he does get rid of Silva, then that's what he will do. He will not hire Mourinho on £25m a year and sanction a £300m spending spree. He's also not going to pay Rafa's £12m a year salary, and sign players who play his way, although I doubt this would cost anywhere near £300m. He's much more likely to go for an Eddie Howe type option.“

I wish I knew what Moshiri would do...

Face it Steve, you're just pissing into the wind, like all of us – you're just doing it from a slightly higher part of the hill.

Steve Ferns
386 Posted 12/10/2019 at 04:09:00
Andrew, do you read any of the stuff by Paul the Esk? We couldn't do this, even if Moshiri did have the funds and wanted to throw his money down the drain.

It's also clear from what Paul and his Everton business matters cohorts say that moshiri ain't the generous benefactor some believe him to be.

It was very interesting to read Paul's comments whilst the Zaha transfer saga rubbled on. Paul implied that the transfer would not happen, and so it proved. There was no second bid.

Steve Brown
387 Posted 12/10/2019 at 05:52:42
Everton won't want to sack another manager, given the compensation they had to shell out due to previous manager stakes. But, Silva has put himself in this position through his poor decision-making this season.

Moshiri will probably give him until Christmas to turn things around, but he won't hesitate if we are in the bottom half of the table at that point. But to claim we can't sack the manager as we can't afford it, or that we don't have the funds to hire a better manager, is thin stuff to be honest.

Andrew Keatley
388 Posted 12/10/2019 at 11:50:04
Steve (388),

It's not about whether I agree with your point of view or not (in this instance I do) – it's about your level of certainty concerning matters which, with the best will in the world, are significantly beyond your scope of experience, knowledge or influence.

You do not know what Silva is thinking, what Moshiri will do, or who the club might line up as our next manager. You can make educated guesses – no doubt more educated than the average – but they are guesses nonetheless.

My basic point is this is Everton Football Club not Game of Thrones – and you are Steve Ferns, not Lord Varys or Petyr Baelish.

Tony Everan
389 Posted 12/10/2019 at 13:24:55
I'd be surprised if he is given until Christmas; if we lose at home against West Ham, that'll be five league defeats on the trot. With our away record diabolical, I think Moshiri will act to save his investment.

Moshiri has given Silva a chance, though, maybe one he doesn't deserve either. If Silva can show some desire to change tactics, personnel and formation for the West Ham game and get a win, he has a chance of coming back from the dead.

I expect 4-3-3 against West Ham, and a different line-up.

Pickford
Sidibe Holgate Mina Digne
Gomes Delph Bernard
Richarlison Calvert-Lewin Kean

Calvert-Lewin has a tendency to drop deeper, but he has the strength to control and shield a forward pass and lay it back to Gomes or Bernard for Richarlison or Kean to then be fed a quick pass. Also, Calvert-Lewin can act as the flick-on man for Kean to be sent clear.

Bernard and Digne each look better when they are both on the pitch, there is an understanding between them.

Keane needs a break, he looks like his confidence has taken a knock. I think Holgate, with games, will become the better defender. Even now, I think he could compliment Mina better. It is a gamble, yes… but one on balance that's worth taking.

That team is light defensively but we have to address the goalscoring and creativity first I think because most of the goals we are conceding are not because of our defensive midfield formations but from set-pieces. Creating a goal threat is paramount now. Playing with 2 defensive midfielders is a proven mistake with the players we have at our disposal.

If we go 4-3-3 and get on the front foot, it will give Silva his best chance of turning it all around. It will certainly be High-Noon for Marco Silva next Saturday.... Close anyway — kick-off is 12:30.

Ray Said
390 Posted 12/10/2019 at 14:28:33
The cost of sacking Silva maybe £20 mill tops vs cost of losing Premier League status maybe £100-150 mill?

Easy choice for a business to make, I should think...

Mike Gaynes
391 Posted 12/10/2019 at 14:57:27
Ray #392, I don't think it's an easy choice at all. It's based on the assumption that, if we don't sack Silva, we're going down. That's a huge assumption based on 8 games.

Tony #391, do you really "expect" Silva to play an alignment he's never used before? What makes you think so?

Jay Harris
392 Posted 12/10/2019 at 15:31:38
Ray,

I think youre being a bit generous there or are you including all the backroom staff.

Silva has only 18 months of a 3-year contract at a reported £3m a year. IMO, it would cost a lot more not to sack him.

Soren Moyer
393 Posted 12/10/2019 at 15:39:50
And what exactly makes the board think this team will suddenly become world beaters after the international break!? Why waste the 14-day window?
Tony Everan
394 Posted 12/10/2019 at 15:52:39
Mike, I expect it because even Silva must see it now as a necessity to change his stubborn ineffective team selections and formation.

Decent Everton article in the Guardian today if anyone is interested in having a read

Marco Silva shuffles towards the Everton abyss despite spending big

Ray Said
395 Posted 12/10/2019 at 16:21:49
Mike (393),

Thanks for the comment. I think at some point in any process, an assumption has to be made based on performance etc -failing to do that means being left with the reality of relegation, at which point, it's too late in the process.

Jay (394),

Thanks for the comment. Yes, I was including staff that may leave if/when he goes.

Mike Gaynes
396 Posted 12/10/2019 at 17:06:05
Tony #396, that's a good article, thanks for the link. But I think your expectation is wildly optimistic. Silva has shown zero willingness to change and zero acceptance of the possibility that he's doing anything wrong -- he thinks it's all the fault of the players. And he's never used a 4-3-3 at Everton -- he may not even know how to coach it.

Agreed, Ray #397, at some point the assumption is appropriate. I just don't believe Moshiri will have reached that point yet based on financial considerations. He could sack Silva now based on the dismal product he's putting on the pitch, but if it's a money decision he'll need a lot more than 20% of the season to justify it.

Darren Hind
397 Posted 12/10/2019 at 17:59:04
Just looking at how Newcastle were taken down by Benitez, they were pipped at the post by a vastly inferior Makem side... led by big Sam.

An epic struggle, which saw big Sam rewarded for being the more positive of the two.

Andy Crooks
398 Posted 12/10/2019 at 18:44:43
Darren, I love that post. In a previous life were you involved in bear-baiting?
Dermot Byrne
399 Posted 12/10/2019 at 19:31:05
Daniel #353: be careful! There are some big but very fragile egos on here mate!

As for manager. To me it seems we have a potentially v good squad but a staid selection and tactical approach.

I am never surprised these days by what we do and the opposition just seem to yawn at us as we attack and just hoof long balls into our box to win.

Another manager? No idea who is any good for us. But my gut keeps thinking training/backroom is not very good.

Thankfully I am so fickle and can be won over by 3.30 if we score! Then back again if they equalise.

At the risk of being crucified, in the end that is all I really give a shit about . like most footy fans.

Dermot Byrne
400 Posted 12/10/2019 at 19:31:10
Daniel #353: be careful! There are some big but very fragile egos on here mate!

As for manager. To me it seems we have a potentially v good squad but a staid selection and tactical approach.

I am never surprised these days by what we do and the opposition just seem to yawn at us as we attack and just hoof long balls into our box to win.

Another manager? No idea who is any good for us. But my gut keeps thinking training/backroom is not very good.

Thankfully I am so fickle and can be won over by 3.30 if we score! Then back again if they equalise.

At the risk of being crucified, in the end that is all I really give a shit about . like most footy fans.

Steve Brown
401 Posted 12/10/2019 at 20:18:26
On another note, just saw Elstone presenting the trophies in the super league final and shuddered. Think it could be PTSD.
Andy Crooks
402 Posted 12/10/2019 at 20:28:04
Dermot, you won't be crucified. That is what we do. I change my mind ten times every game. I recall one game when were losing to Man Utd and with little time to go I hammered out an article demanding not just Moyes's resignation but his execution. Of course the game was saved, and Michael let the piece hang on the thread like a head on a spike, to deter others.
Dermot Byrne
403 Posted 12/10/2019 at 20:40:58
Love it Andy. However I recall in 2001 you posted "..". !
Raymond Fox
404 Posted 12/10/2019 at 21:35:19
I cant see Silva doing anything radical team wise, it will be same again chaps but perform better.

I think the odds makers have more faith in us than we do, we are evens to win against West ham.
We are at home so that's a plus, I cant think of any more though, I know I will be keeping my hands firmly in my pockets.

Paul Birmingham
405 Posted 12/10/2019 at 22:39:42
The board and as a fans, we love Everton, and revere,what’s now becoming a very distant past and 24 years plus since a trophy, it’s got to be agreed, the the last 25 years, have been abject.

Take the native issues with the RS, we can’t and my self included be blighted by RS.

Our Everton’s future, is seriously in review and let’s be fare, in the angst of Brexit and what it means, in business, as fans, we will not know nor ever we, what is happening, nor will happen. But Everton is our hope? And a massive part of our life’s in every way, across this world.

There’s got to be a new model and mantra of delivering consistently “Nil Satis Nisi Optimum” as alas, it’s not worth much in terms of motto or valour at Goodison Park, and away games, any more.


We need a miracle, starting soon, and we need solid ground works to build a platform for consistent success, and to recover the time lost.

But how, and who, and when, in terms of managing the football team?

Ken Kneale
406 Posted 13/10/2019 at 08:10:36
Dermot - Goodness knows the feeling of elation you would experience if we could actually manufacture a comeback and a victory from a goal behind. Sadly I think your safe from such emotional turmoil under this manager
Darren Hind
407 Posted 13/10/2019 at 08:22:17
Paul Birmingham,

That's a proper Saturday night post that, mate.

Good night was it?

Ken Kneale
408 Posted 13/10/2019 at 08:47:53
Darren. Perhaps Paul can’t remember - the sure sign of a great night!!
Tony Everan
409 Posted 13/10/2019 at 09:19:00
Paul 407

Best post on the thread.

Remember this morning, only 2 paracetamol every 4 hours.

Brent Stephens
410 Posted 13/10/2019 at 09:32:02
Paul #407. I've just realised that each paragraph is a clue in a cryptic crossword. Is the answer to the first paragraph / clue (5,3,4,5): "space and time warps?"
Paul Birmingham
411 Posted 13/10/2019 at 09:33:40
Decent Darren, and when there’s no game, the mind does over time.

Seriously if the board and coaching staff won't or can’t take responsibility for the lack of effort by this first team, then where will Everton be in a couple of years?

The thimble half full is shrinking by each week and it’s becoming fact and legendary how poor Everton, has been for donkies years now.

It’s a feeling of ground hog day and I don’t see any genuine green shoots of improvement on the horizon.

This is a collection of players and is not a team, and it doesn’t ever look like being a team. Strikes me as tobola, pot shooting, gambling, but it take guts, nous and charisma in any tram sport, to make a proper team.

Let’s hope the break has given Marco Silva some time for inspiration..

West Ham is massive and again another seasons hopes and dreams are broken within 3 months of the start of the season.

It’s become a life time, and is as consistent as the Mersey in that the tides, come and go, and there’s no change to the demeanour and hopes for EFC.

Tomorrow, never comes. Time for Everton’s board to get real, and there’s no comparison with the others, our fall from grace is 30 years, and constitutes the best part of a life time.

.

Mick Conalty
412 Posted 13/10/2019 at 10:59:45
Paul #413 Well said totally agree.
Ken Kneale
413 Posted 13/10/2019 at 12:11:17
Paul, we all feel your pain and share the sentiments. How do we make it happen is they key?
Stephen Brown
414 Posted 13/10/2019 at 12:31:49
It’s sounds negative but for me the season is already pretty much a right off! Some sort of recovery to finish 8th will be such a pointless exercise!

Only a cup WIN can save this season now in my opinion! So frustrating to be an Evertonian !

Francis van Lierop
415 Posted 13/10/2019 at 13:01:15
I'm still lost for words on our current predicament. Although I could say Schneiderlin is probably a push-over at tiddly-winks too. (Look at the Burnley goal, and the warning, they gave prior to that, with Pickford coming to the rescue.)

I can say more about Erik ten Hag though. As said by someone else, he learned his trade with the Bayern reserves, under Pep. Johan Cruyff saw Pep as his natural successor. (not Ronald Koeman...). When Ajax appointed Erik ten Hag, their fans revolted. With their typical arrogance, they asked who this no-mark Tukker (from Twente, a region in the east of the country) was. Of course they are very pleased with him now.

I can't see him jumping ship now mid-season, like Steve F. wrote. Ajax are still in the Champions League. Erik ten Hag may feel he still has a mission, with this in regard. The ease (or luck – which they definitely had!) with which they beat Valencia away, shows they are improving as the season continues.

This shows him to be an excellent coach. Having to miss Frenkie de Jong (arguably one of the worlds best midfielders) and Mathijs de Ligt, hasn't weakened the team that much, as well as having to miss Donnie van der Beek, who has missed through injury.

Ajax have recruited well. Edson Alvarez (Mexican) and Lisandro Martinez (Argentinian) have fitted in well. How much of this is due to Erik ten Hag, I've no idea. Edwin van der Sar is the Technical Director.

George Cumiskey
416 Posted 13/10/2019 at 18:32:14
Just read a column in The People by Neil Moxley about Jose Mourinho taking over from Silva. Which in my humble opinion is spot on.

Just waiting for Steve Ferns to come on and write 50 paragraphs about why he's wrong and we should stick with Silva.

Darren Hind
417 Posted 13/10/2019 at 18:40:40
George,

Take no notice of Moxley.

You know more about Everton than he does.

Why listen to him?

Derek Knox
418 Posted 13/10/2019 at 18:44:35
Francis @ 415, thanks, as always it's best to get information from someone who is in the country or sees them regularly.

Marco, San Marino really need you, I'm sure you would do well there as they haven't got a clue what they are doing either. If you can't get that job or are rejected, there is a job in Outer Mongolia, Ulan Bator United Reserves, right up your street – and they would understand your tactics too.

Ken Kneale
419 Posted 13/10/2019 at 20:30:34
Derek. His tactics fit the old adage — Perfect until in contact with the opposition; sadly then they fall apart and no back-up plan. More Dad's Army than well-honed unit...
George Cumiskey
420 Posted 13/10/2019 at 20:31:28
Darren, I don't know how much he knows about Everton but I think he makes some very valid points about Silva and Mourinho.
Dan Nulty
421 Posted 14/10/2019 at 09:34:58
Absolutely no way ten hag coming to Everton, why on Earth would you swap Ajax for us? Ridiculous.
Tony Everan
422 Posted 14/10/2019 at 10:59:08
Mourhino has lost it. His professional focus and previous talent was lacking at Chelsea and was non-existent at Man Utd. His time has been and gone and now he is trading on his name alone.

Hiring Mourinho, someone who is half way along the downward curve of his career, on massive money signing players for inflated money and wages is a recipe for disaster. Also with FFP rules as they are I don't think mourhino is in any way a realistic option.

Brands won't go there.

Steve Brown
423 Posted 14/10/2019 at 11:39:34
Tony @ 422, Mourinho has won 8 league titles, two champions leagues and countless cups and you say he has "lost it." Assume you are the same Tony @ 285 who claimed we should appoint Rafa Benitez because "it is primarily a results based business."

Benitez who has not won a major trophy since 2006, with the exception of the Coppa Italia with Napoli. Where has his professional focus and previous talent disappeared to? Is he not half along the downward curve of his career? He is earning £12 million a year in China (i.e. massive wages) as a boutique manager, while he pads out his retirement fund.

And he is the right choice while Mourinho is a has-been? Mourinho has top clubs lined up for him when he is ready. Benitez is managing Dalian Yifang because NOBODY wanted him. Apart from those deluded tossers in the toon army.

Peter Neilson
424 Posted 14/10/2019 at 11:53:27
I don’t think there’s any chance of Mourinho coming here. He’s turned down over £30m net a season from China so money won’t swing it. He was interviewed a couple of weeks ago and said the next club he goes to will be to win more titles. It’s not a “project” he’s after.
Anthony Murphy
425 Posted 14/10/2019 at 12:29:00
I don't think we would see Mourinho at Everton as I don't think the set up with Brands would work for either of them. There are other reasons obviously, but I can't imagine Brands would back it – it sort of goes against what he is trying to instal.

However, I do think we need a change in direction away from gambling on the next big thing and instead going for a proven winner, but I think Brands would not fancy Jose. (Even if money was no object and he was up for it!)

Tony Everan
426 Posted 14/10/2019 at 16:53:43
Inter Milan
Supercoppa Italiana: 2010
FIFA Club World Cup: 2010
Chelsea
UEFA Europa League: 2012–13
Napoli
Coppa Italia: 2013–14
Supercoppa Italiana: 2014

Steve @423, He has won a few bits and bobs and the Europa in the meantime, I thought he did well at Newcastle which are a basket case of a club, whilst Mourhino did much worse than was expected when financially backed with the huge resources at Chelsea and Man Utd over the last few seasons he has had with those clubs.

I thought Mourhino looked a bit overwhelmed with it all at Manchester and he didn't seem the same man and in control as he was earlier in his career. Benitez at Newcastle looked the same manager as always, well researched committed and got a terrible Newcastle side organised.

Money-wise, he would probably take a pay cut to come back to Merseyside. I would be happy to see Silva turn it round but I am struggling to see it, also there is some other interesting alternatives to Benitez. I am not desperate to see Benitez here either but he is one of the best qualified that is achievable and possibly available.

Whatever happens, I want to see us become a proper football team again, organised and potent. Whoever the manager. If Moshiri appoints Mourhino and he transforms us into a top 4 outfit, fantastic, I will be doing cartwheels.

Martin Mason
427 Posted 14/10/2019 at 17:23:17
According to MSN News, he has been told that he has the next 3 games to turn things around.
Craig Walker
428 Posted 14/10/2019 at 17:32:16
Steve @423 - That's a bit unfair as Benitez was at Newcastle from 2016 onwards. I don't think anyone expected him to win trophies there. Mourinho has always been at teams who are expected to win things and has been given a budget accordingly.

Benitez over-achieved at Newcastle by keeping them in the Premier League on Ashley's shoestring. Man Utd fans wanted rid of Mourinho. Personally, I'd be happy with either of them.

At least they have won things. What I don't want is the next possible up-and-coming manager. That approach doesn't work for us. We need someone who can handle pressure and manage big egos.

Cristobal Aguirre
429 Posted 14/10/2019 at 22:07:31
It will be a very complicated game against West Ham, very sorry to say but with Silva in charge I do not think we can take a point here. Maybe we can avoid an humiliation result but the loss is almost obvious. Hope to see him out after this match. My predict? a sad 1-3. My will a surprising victory.

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