World Cup: Quarter Finals 1 & 2

Anyone else having problems with the site here lately? I cant get onto the home page

Brian, yes, people keep having different opinions to mine.

Clive (2), stop messing about Clive, as Kenneth Williams might have said.

Brian everybody has been in the same position, Lyndon and Michael came out for a couple of days supporting the nurses, ambulance men, railway men and various other working class people, God bless you both Lyndon and Michael!!

Couldnt resist the 35/1 offered for a Croatia + Holland double.

Only a small bet (my first of the tournament) but probably enough to guarantee safe passage for the South Americans

I think Holland will win but based on Evertonians I feel I should support Argentina. Koeman, Atteveld, Heitinga, Drenthe, Klaasen, Shandy Andy versus Denis Straq. I liked him better than any of that lot.

I think the draw is stacked though England, Portugal and France are better than Holland, Croatia and Argentina. I am not sure Brazil have really been tested yet (aside from their B team v Cameroon) so I am not sure if they are as good as people claim but on paper they should be.

I'll go with Denis too, Kieran. Ray Atteveld is still the best of that bunch of Dutch underachievers.
And Straq is probably our best Denis (or Dennis) unless anyone knows better.

OK, I'm hearing shouts for Dennis Stevens. Never saw him play, so can't say but 23 goals for Dennis against 3 for Denis tells a story.

Who does that Croatian keeper play for?

Dinamo Zagreb. Are you thinking what I'm thinking, Danny?

Brazil of old would have had players who could dribble and get through packed defences like Croatia as it is the Croats are quite comfy. The tournament whilst having a few entertaining games is a demonstration of how standards have declined globally.

Where are the heirs to Messi and Ronaldo?

Harry Maguire you say?

I don't know if I am the only one but I am surprised that M.Oliver is having a good game. And Neymar scores for Brazil

How about THOSE standards?

Neymar is still incredible. What a goal.

Barry #10,

I believe you are forgetting that defenders have standards to. This has been a good game at both ends of the pitch.

Wow 1-1

And it's pens!

Here we go penalties

Croatia don't do going quietly

They're taking them in downtown Rio. Right in front of the Brazilian fans.

Great pen by Vlasic. Well done, old friend.

Advantage Croatia 2.0

Everton 1 - 0 Liverpool :-)

Croatia 4-2 win on penalties

And that's how far standards have dropped Brazil just didn't have the technique and abilities of old and it killed them.

Dismantling a defensive side was meat and drink to them in eras past - utter pretenders

Great. We can be thrilled by Croatia for at least one more round.

Old short arms shoud have stoppped the deflected equaliser. Pickford would have caught that one-handed

What do people expect Croatia to do stand back and let the Brazilians walk through them, you have a defense for a purpose and the Croatians set theirs up correctly especially in their midfield. This is the World Cup and no one has the rite to win it, and you have to earn it. also you don't have to watch it.

How good a career has Modric had ?

He didnt take his penalty with confidence. He took it with a certain knowledge.

Always sad to see the boys from Brazil bow out, but for a nation of around 4 million people, you simply have to doff the cap to this Croatian team.

Didn’t really care who won this game, I only watched the second half and I wanted Croatia to win after watching Modric’s performance, did he waste a pass, always on the move, pressing, urging and ready to receive the ball from his team mates all over the place.

World class goal from Neymar and he played well but Brazil didn’t look like champions in this tournament and maybe Croatia won’t win it but for such a small country they have an awful lot of talent and there isn’t one outstanding team that you could pick out.

Darren @27 and Dave @28, Modric is extraordinary and I think he's got better over the last 3-4 years. One of my favourite players.

Brazil had one good half in the whole world cup. So either they're not as good as they think they are or tactically they chose to play within themselves. Either way. Good riddance.

Modric is following the Pirlo model of becoming better as he reaches his late 30s. That said, I am not super excited about watching another 0-0 draw in the semi. Hopefully Holland can get rid of another overrated team and we can get to the serious business without all this romance and fantasy about once great teams and players who are now dusty irrelevant relics.

I guess that Croatian goalkeeper is now out of reach (no pun intended) if Pickford get's snapped up.

Let's be honest, if it wasn't for him and some resilient Croatian defending, Brazil would have been out of sight.

But take nothing away from Croatia. Their game plan worked and the goal was a great sweeping move.

They are no mugs. World Cup final followed by a semi final at least.

Population of of 3.8 million to Scotlands over 5m yet consistently produce quality players. That 37 year old Modric is a joy to watch.

Apart from his goal Neymar was awful, legend in his own lunchtime, glad Brazil are out, they think they’re the dogs but fall short tournament after tournament, Croatia deserved that for who they are, for Luca Modric, and for the fans who were outnumbered ten to one.

None of them ever give up.

Oh, and I hope England win tomorrow, not France!

Jeff 32 I wholeheartedly agree. With Neymar as the star man little wonder they're out

Those Fray Bentos pies must be selling well, theres 50,000 Argentines in the stadium!

Neymar is just another Carlos Valderamma. If he was Scottish he'd be called Neygood.

Couldnt agree more Tony.

I think Moderic has earned the right to be called world class.

Rio Ferdinand flagged up Gvardiol as being the worlds best defender in the group stages. I thought it was a bold statement to make about a 20 year old, but fuck me the lad has been impressive. I wouldnt be surprised if Uncle bill was first off the blocks and has already secured his services for next season.

Some proper players are sailing under the radar in this Croatian team.

Yes he looks exceptional, Darren. He is remarkably elegant in his balance and timing. And left-footed, of course, which makes him even more valuable.

I see VD failed to get a tackle in on the Argentina first goal. Tee hee!

And to think we turned our noses up at Modric when he was 17😉

As much as I hate VVD i hope Netherlands win.

Jeff we have a certain talent for buying garbage and missing quality

I would have loved a Brazil v Argentina semi-final, just for football reasons. Take my hat off to Modric, who is world class even now. I still don't understand why you're no.1 penalty taker is no.5 instead of first, especially when he mightn't even get a chance to take one, like Neymar. Ronaldo/Neymar is it just for glory?

Modric was world class at Spurs but he's a quiet unassuming sort who looks like Ken Dodd's Dicky Mint. Not at all your archetypal super star.

Christy 41, Neygood as he is now known, would’ve calculated that with HIM taking the last pen he would’ve gained 1 million insta followers, and led him to Brazilian legend status, unfortunately he forgot there was another team in the equation, its always all about HIM.
Fortunately for the rest of us, he plays for PSG & Brazil, …
perennial losers.

I thought Jack Gunion had called it a day when He closed his barber shop on Scottie in the eighties.

Seems he just fucked off to Buenos aires and got the gig cutting the whole of the national sides hair.

Darren, was Gunion French/German per chance?

Cant be certain Jeff. But I would recognise that haircut from 200 yards.

Messi having a crisis of confidence there

Not a fan of Netherlands but this Spanish ref is giving Argentina everything.

Jeff, how Messi wasn't booked for handball was embarrassing. I was just going to say, how would the Dutch win without a striker, and Wieghorst came on and scored!

VVD should be off.

Christy, this ref is an embarrassment, he’s fanboyed Messi the whole game, he should never referee another match and should have his bank account scrutinised.

Peter 49., I hate VVD but he did the right thing on that Argentine tw@t

Jeff,😂, but how do you have 10min's injury time, it's been a total joke in this World Cup.

FFS, I feel like I’m Danny O’neil on this thread

Great stuff ! One of the the cheekiest free kicks you’ll see. Hope they go on and win it now.

Darren (44), did you have Jack Gunion in Scottie, I had him in St. Anne Street when I was kid, he must have served his apprenticeship in Walton Nick m

Hilarious that free kick.

Free kick was the only creative thing the Dutch have done.

he moved to the top of Dryden street Dave. (where the loop is now) Just past the Pools company whose name I don't remember. wasnt Littlewoods though

Frank sign up this Wegorst lad. Target man with a decent touch and Maupay can play off him.

Plus he'd fit in perfectly with our recruitment of buying Burnley players.

Did not see that free kick coming. What a difference Weghorst has made too.

Emmi Martinez’s bottle has gone. Netherlands on pens here.

Is anyone else experiencing that this entire thread disappears and a rival but similar one with Rob and Will appears for a few mins, then that disappears again and this one returns?

Kieran 62, I wish

Christy 52, 10 minutes was ok with me😉

Shoot this ref

Darren @58,

Vernons was the “other” pools company.

Kieran (62),

Yes, the letters are split in half! Trying to post is very difficult at the moment. I'm giving up for now!!

What is the love-in with the English commentators and Argentina? I thought they had won the World Cup, not just the Quarter-Final!

I assume that all future Goodison songs for Van Dijk will include the word "Penalty" in the lyrics.

Moron Rob Stone on Fox: "Total soccer produces a total comeback for the Dutch." 40 years outdated.

How delightful that if the Dutch had to go out it was van der Turd who did it for them!

I haven't read any posts but will do. I wanted to give my own view.

Messi is up there with the best of all time. I thought they had it in the bag and deserved it.

What a clever free kick for Holland to take it to extra time. Very smart and well worked.

For me, the game had everything. Skill aggression, desire, commitment. It boiled over more than once; no love lost. I think the Ref lost control of the game, which at one point resulted in a pitch invasion by the Dutch bench. By then at least 3 players should have already been sent off. It led to frustration on both sides so I don't think he'll get invited back to the semi finals if there was an assessor.

Messi's millimetre (not inch) perfect pass for that first goal was something that only once in a generation players can see and execute. Most mortals have to rely on a runner and see space.

Shame that St Virgil missed one of the penalties. No, it wasn't a shame, it was very satisfying. He actually should have been one of the reds and not on the pitch. But he wasn't the only one on both sides.

The fact the Ref was losing it didn't distract from a fascinating game of World Cup Football.

I've always viewed the Argentinians as a lesser talented Brazil but almost as dirty as Uruguay. I know that's stereotyping.

Tonight I couldn't believe I was shouting out the dirty Dutch. In their faces and trying to blatantly kick Messi off the park. It nearly came off, but very un-Dutch.

Entertainment. That's what we like to see!!

Opposition goalies seem to cause Van Dijk a lot of pain.

John @ 73; OK, it was a bit near the keeper, but be fair mate, it was a half decent penalty attempt for a man the BBC tells me is recently missing one leg.

I right, Jeff. Nice one.

Danny

I know what you mean, but my favourite all time team was the Argentinian team of 78.

For a the best part of a decade the world had marveled at the total football Rinus Michels had "invented " in Holland. Rightly so. The national side had perfected it. They were marvelous in that tournament.

On the other side of the draw Cesar Menotti had the Argentine's playing a totally different but equally exciting brand of football. He wasnt a fan of the "needless pass" His team was jam packed full of players who could pick the ball up and go past people. They were not just encouraged to do so. They were ordered to. The instruction was clear. "Don't fuck about. If you think you could go past a man, go past him. Take him out of the game". Having world class players like Mario Kempes.and Ossie Ardiles certainly help.

Coaching and tactics were my passion back then. I couldnt sleep the night before the final. The players didnt disappoint neither did the fans. Argentina as a nation went off its head.

The tournament has subsequently been downgraded. Even at the time there was a whiff of suspicion about the Argentina V Peru game. Argentina needed to win by four clear goals. They won 6-0. Some felt the Peruvian's went a little too quietly.

Years later a peruvian senator confirmed that there had been a prior arrangement. Argentina was to take and "house" political opponent's of the Peruvian regime in exchange for a Peruvian collapse.

Leopoldo Luque. A brilliant striker for Argentina got fed up with the suspicion. He did his own investigation. He questioned Peruvian players and eventually came to the inevitable conclusion. He confessed that any pride he felt in that "magnificent" win had all but evaporated.

The whiff of suspicion had been replaced by the stench of corruption.

The biggest losers were the Argentina players. They had no clue what had gone on. Those who choose not to believe the "rumors" still regard it as their greatest night. Leopoldo Luque isn't among them

Darren, say it ain't so. If you look too closely at professional sport something nasty will appear and ruin everything. Best pretend.

1978 was a fine tournament in our innocence. Late night games helped. Even Andrew Lloyd-Webber's theme tune seemed to have a bit of sparkle.

Great recall, Darren.

Also the likes of Filliol, Bertoni, Passeralla, Burrechaga,Ortiz, Gallegos, Valdano, Luque, Kempes, Ardiles, and a few others, I can't remember, they were house hold names and proven footballers.

Later Simeone, followed in that mould, afterwards.

I recall an Argentina v England game shown in 1977, and that was a tough battle and Trevor Cherry, taking some stick from Bertoni, and Passarella.

Those were the days like they were for Everton in the early mid 80s.

One day soon, but until there's stability at Everton, it will always be tomorrow.

All this recall, where the fekk did time go...

Hopefully a good night tonight for England, and I reckon, that any one can win this tournament and pound for pound, Croatia look the business, but I think this is an open quarter final in a long time, so let's see who wants it most.

That was a great post and historical read Darren.

I don't remember much about the 1978 World Cup other than Archie Gemmill's jinking run in the box and goal against the Netherlands.

I've always like following Holland and their history. Michels certainly built Ajax into the dynasty it is today and put them up their with the European elite as well as being the instigator of "total football". I've visited their academy and it's impressive to see in the shadow of their stadium.

It's interesting because a player that played under him, the great Johan Cruyff almost identically followed his career path.

And the Netherlands team Michels took to Euro 88 glory was a bit special.

It wasn't 1978 Darren, but an Argentinian who could beat a man. Diego Maradona. Depending on everyone's views and generation, arguably the greatest ever. Beat a man? Ask Peter Reid and half of the England 1986 World Cup team.

If you like a good football documentary, the one on Maradona is a great watch. It's in Spanish and Italian with subtitles, but makes you realise just how good he was. There are few, but try to watch the one originally screened by HBO.

Pele, Cruyff, Beckenbauer, Maradona and now Messi. True greats.

Others would argue the likes of Eusebio, Muller (Gerd), Gullit, Zidane, Ronaldo. My opinion is they are close but not quite at the top table, but then I didn't see Eusebio like many Evertonians. My Dad did and always raved about him.

The list and debate could go on. And we haven't even mentioned Goalkeepers.

In terms of World Cup teams, I thought the Germany one in 2014 was pretty special. You could see them coming through in 2010. France 1998 were also very good.

I think this World Cup has been excellent from a football perspective.

Lots of different styles of play. Hilarious to see a Van Gaal Netherlands side end up with a very Martin O'Neil 5-3-2 with two big target men. Nearly worked too.

Good reminder that it's about organisation, team spirit, hard work and just one or two players of genuine class.

It also saddens me to see that in Richarlison we had a brilliant player who we never used properly.

I felt the same way Tony.

I loved that tournament. There was a special magic surrounding it. I loved the Argentine melody which started every program. the incredible crowd scenes. The brilliant, Brilliant football.

Of course I had heard the Rumors about that match, but I was as dazzled as everyone else. I didnt want to believe it

I stumbled across a piece years later. Its was incredibly detailed. The bit which struck me the most was the statement from Luque who had been the star of the show.

"With what I know now. I cant say I'm proud of my victory. I didnt realise. We didnt. We just played football"

Luque believed they were good enough to get the four goal margin legitimately. so did everyone else.

Menotti's team was so talented, He couldnt even find a place for Ricky Villa unless he had a few injuries.

Danny

There were times when I thought Reidy bordered on "world class", but the image of him chasing Maradona that day provided a graphic image of the difference between the very good and the very great

Darren, did you ever undertake an "in-depth" journey into the 1966 World Cup - namely why the semi between England and Portugal was considered "unsafe" for Goodison to hold and then switched to Wembley (Portugese missed training, etc., to change hotels, blah, blah, blah - or how many British referees were rammed into the tournament officials squad? It seems to me that these World Cups are all "manipulated" in some way or form...

Joao Havelange, who was FIFA President from 1974 until 1998 stated that the 1966 and ’74 World Cups were fixed.

“In the three matches that the Brazilian national team played in 1966, of the 3 referees and 6 linesmen, 7 were British and 2 were Germans,” Havelange told Folha de Sao Paulo.

When we speak of corruption in the 1966 World Cup, we think of lack of Black players, or the Argentine Rattin being controversially sent off or even whether or not in the Final between West Germany and England the ball “went over the line.”

But many of us seem to forget the 1966 semi-final between Portugal and England played on the 26th of July.

The game had been scheduled to be played at Goodison Park in Liverpool where the Portuguese national team resided but “at the last minute” the English FA had switched the venue to Wembley in London where England was located.

The match was supposed to be played at 3:00pm but a concession was granted to the weary Portugal team that was forced to Wembley from Liverpool at 7:30pm.

This resulted in Portugal not being able to train and were forced to travel by coach (which most likely took 4 to 5 hours to get from Liverpool to London at the time).

The World Cup organizing committee had decided that the “most attractive” match should be played at the largest venue to increase the revenue and capacity and – for - “safety reasons”?

The Liverpool Daily Post reported: “Merseysiders were calling the FIFA decision to play the England v Portugal World Cup semi final at Wembley ‘the greatest betrayal in sporting history’.”

When the Portuguese Football Association filed a complaint with FIFA on the 25th July 1966 it was immediately rejected by the President at the time, Sir Stanley Rouse - who just happened to be English.

England eventually won the match against Portugal 2-1 with two goals from Bobby Charlton in the 30th and 80th minute and a penalty from Eusebio in the 82nd minute.

Did fatigue, tactics, skill, and brilliance play apart in England’s World Cup success, or was dishonesty the quintessence of their only major title since their conception in 1863?

A few things about the ‘78 World Cup. The Argentine dictator, general Videla, “visited” the Peruvian changing room just before the game and let the Peruvian players know what the consequences would be if they provided any sort of fight. Peru obeyed and let Argentina walk all over them.

Argentina had a brilliant team but they still had to cheat to win the competition as they did in ‘86. Paul Birmingham, I remember that game in 1977. Our players were getting bottled by the crowd and the heavily armed riot police were using their Alsatians to intimidate our players. It was disgraceful but conveniently forgotten by all involved.

I hope(d) that either Holland or Portugal would win this World Cup if England fail to do so. If only to honour their great players of the past eg Eusebio, Figo, Cruyff, Neeskens, Van Basten, Bergkamp, Futre, Krul, Andrade, Rui Costa, Kliuvert etc…. Fantastic players who never won the bloody thing.

But cheating bastards like Germany ‘54 (drugs), Argentina’78 (see above), Italy ‘82, Argentina ‘86 (hand of god, my arse) and Italy ‘06 (dark arts) plus the two pre-war Italian wins all won. It’s not fair.

I’d also like to add that over the last 10-15 years the Dutch National side has betrayed their football legacy by becoming a very dull and predictable team despite having many great players. Michels and Cruyff must be spinning in their graves.

Colin 84, don’t forget England 66 (see above) Hurst’s shot was never over the line, today’s goal line technology would show the ball’s circumference about 2 inches on the line, no goal.

Jeff, we’ll never know I suppose. I like to think it was. If goal line technology and VAR had been in use since the beginning I imagine we’d have a whole host of different winners.

I’m not saying Reid, would have caught Maradona, (he should have made sure he grabbed his shirt after the game!) but to be fair to him he was playing with a broken bone in his ankle? And never played for Everton until the December, if my memory is correct?

I watched about 25 minutes of last nights game in a pub, and it reminded me of a Sandon v Britt game on the Dockers, except for the disgraceful diving and the cynical cheating of course!

Gerry 82. The simple answer is no. I was unaware of the dirty tricks used to get that game at Wembley.

No wonder the Portuguese were angry

We were all angry, Darren. My Dad, brothers and I went to the 3 Group games at Goodison and the 3 at Old Trafford - Portugal (in particular Eusebio) were incredible. Pele and Eusebio were hacked so many times - but just got up and carried on - no diving - no tantrums.

We went to the Portugal v North Korea game - they went 3-0 down, yes 3-0 down - but Eusebio then scored 4 in their 5-3 win.

Then the bitter last day disappointment of not watching Portugal at Goodison - BITTER - you bet we were...and still are. And the English have the audacity of whining about other countries cheating - get a life...

Gerry (90) Yes Gerry there were many things that needed explaining about that 1966 tournament apart from the hypocrisy of the double standards that were used regarding the tackles that were allowed by certain teams and not others.

Argentina were called animals by Alf Ramsey yet one of the most violent tackles, committed in the whole tournament,was made by Nobby Styles in the semi-final against Portugal,he was allowed the sending off that it should have been with a stern warning and a booking,enabling him to play in the final.

Stanley Rouse as president of FIFA, at the time,called the referees together before the tournament and stressed the difference between tackles made in Europe and South America, Argentina, the best team in the competition, for me,were hampered by the sending off of Rattin early in the game played with ten men for a huge part of the game before losing to a Geoff Hurst goal late in the game.

You can win cup, even the biggest one in the world without being the best team and it certainly helps if you are the host country, I thought that definitely happened in 1966.

Dave

Apparently Argentina and Brazil were assigned training grounds and upon arrival the grass was overgrown and there were no goalposts so they paid a local carpenter to build some.

Charles#98 Completely disagree, Maradona was the best player of his generation, the 2nd goal against England showed that, for the hand of God, Shilton should have taken man and ball. Maradona was kicked off the field during his time in Spain and Italy, was constantly given cortisone injections, so he could play, wouldn't be allowed today
I hope Walker does his talking on the pitch tonight.

Charles/Christy

I watched a doc on Maradona. In his younger days he was beaten to shit week after week by thuggish defenders who couldn’t handle him so they just to tried to break his legs. He eventually started diving because the refs never ever called the leg breaker fouls on him. He also started on drugs partly due to the injuries he incurred. I think I’m his mind he felt after years of being cheated that if you can’t beat them join them. No doubting his talent he was brilliant

Christiano Ronaldo. What an arrogant twat. Yes, he was no doubt devastated by the loss, but blubbing like a baby and running away shows his true colours. As a supposed leader and Portuguese icon he should have stayed on the field to support his teammates. They displayed true class and sportsmanship acknowledging their fans, supporting each other and, most significantly, applauding the Moroccans. Ronaldo should hang his head in shame. Wikipedia will, under the definition of "knobhead", read as follows. " Ronaldo. the Portuguese one that is "

And what happened to sportsmanship Neil? Not just his team mates, but what about shaking the hands of the opposition? Sportsmanship does still exist right?

Neither Pele nor Eusebio ever reacted the way Maradonna did on the field (or off it for that matter) - and they had no backing from the referees at all. Absolute gentle GIANTS of football - unlike the diving and cheating twats of these footballing days...

Danny. Please do not get me started upon the subject of sportsmanship. I was born in 1955 so those of my era, and a few decades to follow, know precisely what I think about posturing and cheating modern sportspersons. ( predominantly male )

Dead right Gerry, I was at Goodison Park when Pele was kicked off the field. No reaction just limped and helped off with the red blanket over his shoulders.
Some great games though, with North Korea surprising everyone. Hungary and Portugal top teams. Great occasion!

Yep, Jim, such a fantastic time to enjoy proper football, no play-acting nancies rolling about as if shot!!!

Regarding the 1978 World Cup, it didn't help Holland when two of their players refused to travel to Argentina for the tournament: Johan Cruyff and William van Hanegem for various reasons decided they wouldn't be going.

I think Cruyff certainly would have made a big difference to the outcome of Holland's results; not sure if Van Hanegem wasn't past his best.

Dave,

Cruyff said it was for family reasons but the Dutch press said it was also a political decision as he didn't want to play in front of the Argentine dictators who were at all the big games, eg, Videla, Viola, Messina and Galthieri amongst others. Murderers one and all.

I doubt that is true as he played in Franco's Spain despite widespread criticism at home for doing so. I think Paul Breitner (West Germany) also refused to go but played in Spain as well. Breitner. A forgotten midfield genius.

Colin (103),

True enough, Colin, Johan and his wife and kids had been held up in his house in Barcelona by a man with gun earlier in the year before the World Cup.

Years later, he stated that was the real reason he had decided not to go to Argentina, the priority was the safety of his family.