Everton 1 - 2 Southampton

From the moment Everton threw away all the work it had taken to establish a slender half-time lead just 50 seconds into the second half, there was a haunting inevitability about the way this game would end up going.

It was the same feeling that crept into the soul when Anthony Gordon bowled Che Adams over outside the Blues’ penalty area with 12 minutes to go, thereby handing James Ward-Prowse the kind of direct free-kick opportunity he relishes.

It was one the talented Saint seized with both hands to sink Everton further into crisis, one that threatens to get a lot worse, with negative momentum sucking the club towards the trapdoor to the Championship.

Three of Everton’s last four Premier League matches have been against the team that sat bottom of the table coming into the game. They have lost all three, extending their winless run since October to nine matches in all competitions and leaving them joint last in the division.

At the final whistle of today’s defeat to Southampton, Frank Lampard had completed 37 League games, just one shy of a full season. His win percentage of a paltry 24% is less than Rafael Benitez and his record of just one win in 12 was enough to see his predecessor sacked almost a year ago to the day.

Thanks largely to Everton’s long-suffering fans and the efforts of Richarlison and Jordan Pickford, Lampard kept the Toffees up by the skin of their teeth last May. He has been dealt a bad hand with the Brazilian star now gone and no action in the transfer market this month but it’s hard to see the club heading anywhere other than down this season under his stewardship.

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Lampard’s team do nothing well anymore, with the naïveté that dogged his spells at Pride Park and Stamford Bridge still in evidence. What strengths he seemed to have imbued in the Everton team following the arrival of Conor Coady and James Tarkowski have evaporated in recent weeks, with the defence looking porous and vulnerable and both players now contributing to the team’s defensive malaise.

In attack, the club have repeatedly gambled on the return to fitness of Dominic Calvert-Lewin but left him starved of service — his one real chance came back off the bar via a deflection, a slice of misfortune that might have led to a different result on the day — and are hampered by a desperately erratic Demarai Gray, who is capable of the sublime but all too often takes promising attacks down blind alleys.

In circumstances where the margins between defeat and victory can be so slender, Lampard and his staff need to be maximising every department of the team and they aren’t doing that. Everton look poorly coached, bereft of ideas and confidence and, while reinforcements between now and transfer deadline day could be the difference between an increasingly slim chance of survival and the disaster of relegation, you can’t escape the feeling that they should be made to benefit a new managerial hire.

Everton’s statement around the absence of the Board from the Directors’ Box described it as “a profoundly sad day for Everton and Evertonians,” and it was in almost every way, just not for the reasons the club were pushing. Perhaps the only shining lights on the day were the surprisingly swift return of Alex Iwobi eight days after he was stretchered off the Old Trafford pitch in visible pain and the performance of the imperious Amadou Onana.

The Belgian, so impressive in defeat at Manchester United in that FA Cup defeat, was brilliant again today and was rewarded with a goal from a towering first-half header that should have been the platform from which Everton could have gone on to win the game.

However, yet more calamitous defending and that mindless challenge from substitute Gordon that set Ward-Prowse up for the winner saw the lead evaporate and the Toffees descend into further crisis on and off the pitch.

Lampard retained faith in a back-five formation and, while there wasn’t much fluidity to their play in what was an occasionally scrappy affair, the early signs were decent enough for the hosts, with Calvert-Lewin guiding a header towards Gavin Bazunu that was comfortably caught, and Gray ending up on the end of a nice move but his shot cleared the crossbar from a tight angle.

Southampton, who came into the fixture on a two-game winning streak in the cups, one of them an impressive quarter-final victory over Manchester City, came perilously close to scoring a few minutes later when Ward-Prowse fed the ball to Mohamed Elyounoussi and his shot took a heavy deflection off Vitalii Mykolenko, looped towards the far post but eluded Adams and dropped wide. Mohammed Salisu met the resulting corner with a header but Jordan Pickford parried it on the line and the danger was averted.

Everton broke the deadlock, though, with seven minutes left in the half. Some neat footwork from Gray ended with his attempted cross being blocked behind and, from the winger’s corner, Onana fought his way to meet the in-swinger and planted a downward header home off Bazunu’s glove.

It was his first goal for the club and a potential mood changer if Everton could have hung on but, after Pickford had been forced into a stoppage-time save, pushing a Ward-Prowse shot onto the post at the end of the first half, they had tossed the lead away with less than a minute gone of the second half.

A simple Adams flick-on past Tarkowski found Ward-Prowse in plenty of space to draw a sliding block attempt from Ben Godfrey and then stroke the ball past the helpless Pickford to make it 1-1.

Everton briefly rallied, with Iwobi’s tenaciously to chase down Pickford’s long ball but Gray spurned the opening with a tame 25-yard shot while a marauding run by Godfrey saw him set up Calvert-Lewin just outside the box but his shot took a vital deflection off a defender’s out-stretched leg and smacked off the underside of the crossbar and away from goal.

With 20 minutes to go, Godfrey came very close to opening his own account for Everton when Onana curled a teasing ball into the box that Bazunu could only get his fingertips to but it was enough to deceive Godfrey at the back post who couldn’t adjust in time to barrel the ball past the right side of the upright.

Lampard had tried to change the course of the game by throwing Gordon on for Seamus Coleman but instead of making the difference at the Gwladys Street End, he played an important role in Southampton’s winner with a clumsy and needless foul on Adams that gave the visitors a free-kick in prime Ward-Prowse territory at the Park End.

With Pickford and his wall all at sea, the one-time England man simply picked his spot and drove the ball into the left-hand side of the goal as the goalkeeper stood rooted to the spot.

The closing stages were desperate from the Blues as they vainly tried to plunder an equaliser with Ellis Simms introduced for Gueye but, though they got into a couple of good areas for Gordon to send in crosses and Tarkowski tried to steer a loose ball home from about 12 yards out, they didn’t really look capable of scoring a second.

For the third time since Christmas, the players left the Goodison Park pitch with the frustration, ire and boos of the fans in their ears before the demonstrations of disaffection with an absent Board took centre-stage behind the Gwladys Street goal.

The Collins Dictionary defines a death spiral as “a period of continuous deterioration that leads ultimately to catastrophic failure or destruction,” which is about as succinct a summation of Farhad Moshiri’s time at Everton as you could imagine. The club are now staring the catastrophe of relegation full in the face with a cascade of defeats in the Premier League that has dumped the Blues into the bottom three, an owner seemingly in denial of the threat to his investment, and a widening schism between the hierarchy as a whole and the fanbase. The culmination of years of complacency, profligacy and almost criminal mis-management.

Everton FC is now a broken institution, directionless on the pitch, rudderless off it and in danger of being ripped apart by infighting, discontent and mistrust. To the wider football world, the blue-hued beauty of last season’s unprecedented show of passionate support from the fans is now being painted by the media in dark tones of seething angst and an undercurrent of danger following the club’s announcement that the Board of Directors were told not to attend today’s game against Southampton due to "tangible threats" to their safety.

Video that surfaced after the match of Anthony Gordon’s car being chased down Goodison Road and the winger harangued by an irate fan telling him to “Get out of our club” merely played into the narrative of the neanderthal mob who should be dismissed rather than listened to. The tragedy, meanwhile, is that inside the stadium, thousands of anguished fans fearing for the future of their beloved club had peacefully remained behind to demand change at the top.

The situation at Everton feels depressingly bleak. And yet, there are 19 games left — half a season — three points separating 20th from 14th place and 16 days left in the transfer window; plenty of time for a functioning and bold hierarchy to get its act together and do everything it can to stave off an eventuality that could sink the club for years to come. If only the Blues had one.

Lampard took responsibility for the club’s plight and admitted afterwards that “I’m not the best coach in the world but I know I will work as hard as I can to be as good as I can be,” which had the ring of a man who should be shown the door in favour of an experienced operator who can shore up a Swiss-cheese defence and instil some direction and purpose in a team that has enough talent in its ranks on paper to be higher up the table than it currently is.

A new manager and a couple of new attacking signings could give the club a fighting chance of staying up this season. Starting with Newcastle last season, a clutch of clubs have been lifted by a new managerial appointment; together with Wolves, Aston Villa and even Bournemouth to a lesser degree, Saints have seen the benefit of decisive action at the top. After Benitez and Lampard, there is little confidence that Everton would get any new hire right but it doesn’t feel as though inaction is an answer anymore.

Reader Comments (189)

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Phillip Warrington
1 Posted 15/01/2023 at 05:10:00
One Hundred percent agree, but the problem is we have an owner who thinks everything's fine and a manager who admits he's not good enough right now. In my 55 years of supporting Everton I have never been more bewildered by what's happening to this club.

To the point where every time I think of Everton I just start shaking my head and a feeling of sadness.

Derek Knox
2 Posted 15/01/2023 at 05:57:15
A very apt headline title Lyndon, and one sadly that I can't at this moment in time, see a way round, or out of, for Everton. The only real losers in this fiasco is the Fans, whose loyalty has long been abused by both Board, Managers and Players alike. I have deliberately put them in that order of culpability.

They can all move on, and mostly well compensated for failure, where do the fans go ? They either give up, stop going, or take to drink and drugs, but when you have supported them for many, many years, as I have myself and hundreds, even thousands also, that is a harder thing to do, because it's in your blood.

Like Alan Stubbs so rightly said when interviewed by Sky Sports, without the Fans, Everton Football Club wouldn't exist. Yet the fans are the most poorly treated and have been a secondary consideration for far too long.

For Moshiri to blame the Fans for poor Manager choices and subsequent (compensated) departures is almost unbelievable. We never appointed these potential wrong appointments in the first instance.

Although we seldom all agree on any one specific choice, I think very few, if any would have been in the job, had it somehow been left to us to elect the right man for the job. Most possibly, and probably we would have been in a less scary situation had we been allowed to have a say in that.

Not sure what will happen now to be honest, but I am concerned, once in freefall it is very difficult to resist gravity, and reverse the trend.

Lyndon Lloyd
3 Posted 15/01/2023 at 06:32:57
Derek, I think Moshiri was specifically saying that fan sentiment had driven the sackings of a series managers (as opposed to him being a fit and proper leader and making the correct decision for the club off his own back) rather than him blaming supporters for who he hired.

But when you contextualise each one, they either should not have been appointed with the intent of being a long-term hire in the first place (Allardyce, Benitez and, if we're being honest, Lampard) or they needed to go because they were demonstrably failing based on where we wanted to be as a club at the time.

In the cases of Martinez, Koeman and Silva, that was challenging for the Champions League and we were heading in the wrong direction under all three. If the sole aim throughout was to merely stay in the Premier League, then keeping Koeman, Silva or Allardyce would have sufficed but it wasn't. We were battling to get into the top 4 within Moshiri's three-year window.

Derek Knox
4 Posted 15/01/2023 at 06:57:07
Agree Lyndon, but Koeman was a disaster, and the start of the ingrained rot, we had to pay Southampton compensation to prise him away from them. He then went on a spending spree, paying way over the odds for players, and dishing out long contracts, while playing golf most of the time, and absent from Finch Farm. He eventually received a King's Ransom for abject failure.

I still think the plug was pulled too quickly on both Roberto and Silva (who is now doing very well at Fulham) so maybe he had it after all. Roberto was never given any money to spend (apart from his eventual compo) and although the Football wasn't great we were at least scoring, but conceding too many. A problem hypothetically that could have been rectified with a couple of classy defenders.

When you think back we were still better off then than now in terms of League Position. He can't have been such a dud to be hired by Belgium, who were one of the top International sides for a while, even under his tutelage. I think you hit the nail on the head, when, instead of gradual steps, they thought money, regardless of how it was spent would guarantee success and Euro Qualification.

Hoping the Football Gods will fully appreciate where the true blame lies, and grant a couple of long overdue favours or luck in our direction. It doesn't augur well for the immediate future if they don't.

Derek Thomas
5 Posted 15/01/2023 at 07:06:34
Negative Momentum - Death Spiral...and 2 stupid mistakes apart, we played...from a low bar admittedly, reasonably well-ish.

The players seemed to be keen enough, nothing wrong with the attitude. But when you're at the bottom, nothing goes right and so it proved.

Still the ongoing conundrum of stick or twist and if Twist - who...and when.

Jim Bennings
6 Posted 15/01/2023 at 07:18:33
Yesterday felt like the game that pretty much packed our bags for the Championship.

I can't see this Everton team garnering 37 points, maybe even more that will be required to stay up.

I said at the start, there won't be a Watford or Norwich this season, two teams as bad as those.

Nottingham Forest's home form will keep them up, they are solid at home while you look at Wolves and think they'll get away from it as they create chances to score.

It's out of Southampton, Everton, Bournemouth and possibly West Ham but you'd fancy their bigger players to start doing something soon to evade it probably by beating us next week.

This Everton side has zero goal threat, zero creativity and we can't even defend anymore.

Our home form was once solid, is now an absolute joke, the amount we lose and the teams that come here and walk away with an easy three points.

The away form doesn't bear mentioning, THREE away wins since April 2021, tells you the story.

I don't see any manager keeping this squad up, I'm sorry but I just don't.

Danny O’Neill
7 Posted 15/01/2023 at 07:23:32
As always Lyndon, bang on the money write up.

The national media are onto us. We just have to ensure we use it to effect, because let's face it, if we brick coaches and smash windows, it won't be laughed off or airbrushed away like it has been for others. Do this right and we may influence the change we need and want for this broken institution as you starkly call it.

Stay dignified. Sad to see what happened to Anthony Gordon. Whoever you are, however passionate you are, how is Anthony Gordon to blame? Get a grip.

West Ham. See you all there.

Dean Williams
8 Posted 15/01/2023 at 07:30:06
As a child I was taken to all Liverpool home and away games by my dad and his cronies. I remember my mates were going the Everton game and asked if I wanted to go, which I said yes to. But I was also scared my dad would find out.

Arsenal at home, we bunked in the Gwladys Street and from the age of 8 I was a full-fledged Blue and I loved it. To say my dad, who was a bit of a Liverpool wide boy back in the day, wasn't happy, was an understatement. I wasn't allowed anything Everton related at home, nor was I allowed to dress my window in my colours when we were the team to beat.

The dynamic between me and my pops definitely changed the day I became a Blue. I've supported this club home and away for 41 years through good and bad, but supporting this club is bad for your health. The stress it puts on your mind and body is immense, as the club is to be run by a bunch of clowns and hangers-on who have zero connection to the real fans.

I for one am at the end of my tether and won't be watching this shower of shite for the foreseeable. I changed the dynamic of my relationship with dad for this club. Seems like such a waste of time now.

Rick Tarleton
9 Posted 15/01/2023 at 07:43:46
Lampard is a part of the problem, but he's the least important part of our three tiers of employers and employees.

The Board is, and has been for 20+ years, totally inadequate, it has an actor playing a part, and loving it, as Chairman, an owner who is hands off, to put it mildly, and really seems to want out. It has players who have neither the skill, tactical nous nor motivation and desire to play for this once-famous and great club.

No manager, not even the great Ancelotti, has actually changed the mindset at Goodison Park during this 20-ear period, so whether changing Lampard for whoever would take the job would actually make Gordon a sensible addition to the team or make Calvert-Lewin fit, would give Iwobi the ability to make a penetrating pass or be calculated and confident when near the opposition goal, is doubtful.

I have watched Everton since 1953-54 and never has the team been so demotivated, lacking in confidence, and I fear, lacking in ability too. Change the manager if that's going to make a difference; perhaps a new manager will find tactics and a formation that suit the skill set of the present squad… I doubt it, but perhaps.

Sack the Board, however, as the Board basically own the club – I can't see this outcome happening. Buy a new team? I think The Esk would suggest that financially that isn't possible. So I'm in despair.

Kenwright's epithet would be as Ozymandias's was "Look on my works, ye mighty and despair." The kind of sentimentality that sees Billy Liar as a True Blue suggests that Rooney or Ferguson – because they are "Blues" – would make a difference, and they are wrong. Guardiola or Klopp would make no difference unless the whole thing changes.

In almost 70 years as an Evertonian, I've never felt so low and I've seen some very mediocre teams. I don't know the answer and I suspect that there isn't a simple answer and I suspect that our inadequate manager is a symptom of the problem and not the cause.

Despair, but COYB is my forlorn cry.

Andrew Haizelden
11 Posted 15/01/2023 at 08:05:23
Sounds like Frank is just about ready to say "F£&k you lot" and is asking to be gone.
Martinez inherited a team capable of a top six finish if he had added attacking flair to DM's solid defence. The defence coped for his first season but his failure to maintain defensive solidity cost him and us.
That is where the rot started.
I am so sad that our club is in the situation it is. Absolutely heartbreaking.
Sam Hoare
12 Posted 15/01/2023 at 08:06:45
The dice must be rolled.

I like Lampard, never thought he was a good manager but at least he spoke well and seemed to get the club. Sometimes that might be enough to garner some positive momentum. Obviously he has been poorly served by the board but nonetheless he has made mistakes and struggled to get a tune out of these players. Ideally he would have been sacked before the World Cup break to give the new man a small pre season and a transfer window but the board are desperate for stability and that’s one sentiment from them I can understand. But that gamble (like most of the others) has failed.

I’ve no idea who they could persuade to come in; and who would fancy a circus on flames. It sure as hell won’t be the likes of Tuchel and Pochettino. Probably it will be someone who’s not averse to managing in the championship as that seems the most likely destination for next season.

Not that he was my pick as a manager but I wonder how things would have gone under Vitor Pereira?

Tony Everan
13 Posted 15/01/2023 at 08:26:55
Thanks Lyndon for this, a true reflection on how many are feeling.

Also, I know you don’t call for managers to be changed lightly, but as you say, change is now absolutely the only chance of salvation.

I would want an experienced manger, respected and with a character to get the players organised. Someone who can give a clarity of direction. The players need it, the fans will feed off it and welcome, with open arms, any shred of progress now.

In this condensed moment of crisis and opportunity Mr Moshiri has to have an Everton “Cobra Meeting” this morning.

Frank Lampard has to be told ‘thank you for trying but the club needs to try and save itself so please go with dignity and a lot of money.’

With the dramatic drop off in form before the Workd Cup break, the six week golden opportunity to improve, Frank’s been given unprecedented backing and a very fair chance to prove himself.

Sadly, he’s fallen short.

This eventuality was of significant probability . Therefore you would hope the owner and board have already done their homework on a replacement and someone can be brought in, ideally tomorrow.

We all know the problems run far deeper , but we have to try to pull the levers that can save the club now . Boardroom change must follow .

Joshua Steadman
14 Posted 15/01/2023 at 08:35:24
I struggle with the sympathy for Lampard. Seems a genuinely decent fella and unlike the fella over the park his reaction to our victories last season appeared sincere. However, with the exception of Onana who is starting to show what all the fuss was about when we signed him, the other incomings have been awful. Complete waste of money. Considering Tarkowski was a free he should have concentrated solely on a forward.
Several games into the season without a recognized striker, willing to rely on having an injury prone player available and scoring.
Unfortunately because a section of the fans and
Two former players have called out the incompetence of our board, all true, it has glossed over the fact Lampard is our worst manager in living memory - 48 years for me. It seems the board dare not sack him even though the writing was on the wall after the Bournemouth debacle.
Sadly we are down as Lampard genuinely thinks he will get it right despite results and performances have shown he won't.
Jim Bennings
15 Posted 15/01/2023 at 08:37:12
Andrew 11

To be fair the rot started when we do what we always we do.

We lost better players (sold, got older and retired ect ect) and we replaced them with shite.

The team we had under Moyes had competitive players like Jagielka, Baines, Cahill, Arteta, Fellaini, Pienaar, Mirallas, Osman ect.

Even under Martinez we had Lukaku, Barkley, Deulofeu, McCarthy, Barry, all players that were capable of holding it together.

As the years have passed we've moved from competitive match changing players to players that aren't going to win you games.

We lost James Rodriguez, Richarlison, Sigurdsson, Lucas Digne and none of them have been replaced with even remotely as good, let alone better players.

You reap what you sow, that's why we are where we are.

Bill Fairfield
16 Posted 15/01/2023 at 08:39:28
The club is broken. There is no way back for this board of directors now.Those press releases against the fans,have made it even more toxic.
Paul Tran
17 Posted 15/01/2023 at 08:44:26
An excellent summary of our current position. We appear vulnerable and wide open all over the pitch. The only bright spot was Onana's fine performance, which will have put him in a few notebooks for the summer.

This squad is crying out for organisation, simplicity and focus on the basics. We have little creativity, so it's keep it tight and nick one until we get some.

The writing was on the wall for me when we lost twice at Bournemouth, after the manager said he had to rotate the team just before a six-week break.

I hope they've been on the phone to Dyche. I'd take him in a heartbeat.

Plenty of points left in this season, but we need someone to organise the team and have them doing the basics consistently. It won't happen without a change in the dugout.

Bill Watson
18 Posted 15/01/2023 at 08:44:36
Tony #13

I agree entirely except I very much doubt the board have a replacement lined up.

They knew Richarlison was going in the summer of 2021 but, 18 months later, we still haven't signed even a half-decent striker.

The club has been badly run for three decades and the chickens are now coming home to roost.

Jim Bennings
19 Posted 15/01/2023 at 08:51:36
Paul @17,

Before getting too carried away with Sean Dyche, mate, keep in mind that he also had Burnley in a relegation battle last season, with arguably more fighters in that team than he'd have at Everton.

Personally, I think Dyche is just Big Sam lite and yet we didn't tolerate his football and couldn't wait to chase him.

My concern with Dyche would be, we need goals to win games, I don't think Dyche is very expansive in his style of play either so I'm not sure what we'd get out of that appointment.

Don't get me wrong I don't see Lampard keeping his job now, it's just that I don't see who is out there that can change this downward trajectory.

We've missed out on getting a Christophe Galtier or similar, we missed the boat when Eddie Howe was out of work when we appointed Benitez.

We even more oddly overlooked Howe when we interviewed Nuno Espirito Santo.

Robert Tressell
20 Posted 15/01/2023 at 08:55:24
Unless Dyche or someone else is appointed in the next few days, the the likeliest outcome is that Baines and / or Rooney oversee the last few games once relegation is confirmed under Lampard.

The team is crying out for a Richarlison who never gives up or even a Sigurdsson who can conjure a goal out of nothing. There's some interesting links in the rumour mill but nothing in this category.

Ridiculous that we've come to this point as a result of finally getting some money after the lean Moyes years.

Joe McMahon
21 Posted 15/01/2023 at 08:59:40
I'm with Jim @19,

As previously stated, I see a fair bit of Burnley and Sean Dyche teams and goals don't exist. Look at Burnley now with a squad overhaul and new manager.

Robert Tressell
22 Posted 15/01/2023 at 09:02:24

The fans turned on Allardyce because we thought we deserved more than 8th place and good football to go with it.

Right now, I think we'd take anything to stay up. Dyche isn't some kind of saviour, we all know that, but this squad is miles better than what he kept in the top flight for many years. He can organise a defence and motivate a team. That's a marked improvement on where we are now.

Paul Tran
23 Posted 15/01/2023 at 09:04:30

I know you see plenty of Burnley. I was told there were issues between Dyche and the new owners last season. Anything in that?

And did the money for the overhaul come from the owners, or from selling Dyche's canny signings?

Russelll Smith
24 Posted 15/01/2023 at 09:09:33
All right minded fans will be in despair at the way the club is falling apart: the Directors boycott yesterday, Moshiri's neglect for the past three years, a manager who now openly admits he's not the best, fans chasing players cars to give them dogs abuse, all symptoms of a club in crisis.

If we could sign any players in this window, which is increasingly looking like we can't, who in their right mind would come to Everton? If players have a choice between our mayhem and any other club it is not rocket science to think what they will choose.

Lampard will be gone after we lose to West Ham so his “reputation” will not influence any new players like it apparently did with Onana, our one shining light from yesterday. Whilst changing managers again does nothing for stability staying with Frank will see us relegated for certain.

Lampard seems oblivious to the fact that Coady and Tarkowski are currently hopeless, Coleman cannot play as a wingback now as he no longer has the legs and Mykolenko was never a wingback. He needs to play Mina (until he breaks) alongside Tarkowski with Holgate and Godfrey as full-backs (similar to what Anchelloti did).

The sooner Garner is fit and can replace Gueye the better as he has been off the pace and indisciplined now for weeks. Ward-Prowse left him behind for the first goal yesterday. Iwobi despite lots of calls on here regarding his “creativity” hasn't created anything of note since the Crystal Palace game. I was actually hoping he wouldn't be fit yesterday and that Doucouré would play as the advanced midfielder.

We desperately need to do something radically different. If you actually look back at the Crystal Palace game, we were not brilliant that day, we just scored three brilliant goals, in between we were nothing special and Crystal Palace were rubbish.

Matt Henderson
25 Posted 15/01/2023 at 09:10:45
We are down to scraping the bottom of the barrel with managers, unfortunately.

It will be the same with players as, because of the issues, we have no ambitious players on the up who will want to come here if they can go elsewhere and be assured of first-team football next season; we are obviously at real risk of not being able to offer that.

There is a lack of quality throughout the club appointments at every level. It also seems apparent that, despite probably the weakest first 11 for years, we don't even have any decent young players to come in and have a crack.

Martin Mason
26 Posted 15/01/2023 at 09:10:50
Yes, our holy trinity of board, coaches and fans are locked in a dance macabre and the end seems inevitable as we and the rest of the Premier League go in opposite directions.

It's a dark play masterminded by the great impresario who seems to have been destined to bring the curtain down on our great club. Have you ever heard of a club who changed managers and players and every change seems to have made them worse?

Sack Lampard? Is it really worth the bother? Not for me, just let's see the performance out. We want the board and manager gone and relegation is possibly the only way to do this. Surely the drop is better than this pantomime every year?

Eddie Dunn
27 Posted 15/01/2023 at 09:11:52
Very good summary, thanks, Lyndon. We are in a pickle and the first thing that needs to be done is the removal of this inept manager and his large entourage.

Frank seems to think that he can just go to work every day, putting in the hours, and everything will suddenly come good.
If he hadn't been a successful player, he wouldn't have got near any of his three jobs.

He has set the team up to play a flawed system which attempts to switch play from back to front using the channels but never through the middle. Every coach knows how to repel it.

Frank hasn't got a clue how to change it during the match. Yesterday, his subs actually made us worse!

We need Trossard and Ings to come in and we need Dyche to take up the poison chalice. At least he knows how to get out of the Championship.

Trevor Peers
28 Posted 15/01/2023 at 09:12:01
Agree with Sam @12,

'The dice must be rolled' it's our only chance. Dyche is the only contender in my view, he would bring discipline and organization where there is none at the moment. That may be just enough to save us but, even if we went down, that has to be our mantra for the future instead of chaos.

How Lampard was ever considered for a job like ours is a complete mystery; he's a nice guy but totally inexperienced and his coaching skills are zero. Keep him and we will finish bottom of the Premier League with less than 25 points.

Barry Rathbone
29 Posted 15/01/2023 at 09:18:57
Pre Lampard, I aimed a disparaging remark his way on this forum along the lines of a more unlikely man to lead a footy team you would be hard-pressed to find. However, on his appointment, I got fully behind him and was surprised at his passion and determination; in short, I changed my mind.

But overall, his transfers have not been effective and, in the end, that decides a manager's fate. Seeing the results, our players do not seem to relish the battle, seemingly timid and uninspired. Traits I originally feared from the Lampard appointment.

Should he go? Probably.

Can Moshiri afford another change? Probably not.

Are there good alternatives out there? I honestly don't know.

What a mess…

Martin Mason
30 Posted 15/01/2023 at 09:21:21
Is it possible that we fans have been relegated already by how we are handling our part in the play?

That is not a dig at the fans; how we are behaving is just another symptom of the disease that is striking the club down.

Dyche as manager? Absolutely the best candidate for the Championship. Quos Deus vult perdere, prius dementat — Those whom God wishes to destroy, he first deprives of reason.

It would be the final act.

Mark McDonald
31 Posted 15/01/2023 at 09:26:45
19 games to go, half way through… yet we are only 3 points off 14th. Easier said than done under the current circumstances.

Yes, we are a complete mess from top to bottom. Yesterday felt like it was the lowest I have ever felt about our club.

Something has to change and NOW; otherwise, we start next season in the Championship. Part of the blame is on Lampard and our chairman and board will be looking for someone to blame.

I never wanted Frank but, after last season, I thought we might give him a chance, he might improve... but I do not understand his tactics, selections, iming of subs etc.

So if Frank goes, who do we get as caretaker till the end of the season? Someone already at the club? Perhap a former Blue?

Whoever it is, they need to be appointed NOW so there is still time to buy new players to replace some of the current ones who are absolutely not good enough to wear the shirt.

So, Moshiri, you need to act NOW and hopefuĺly new week we can celebrate 3 points at West Ham and be out of the Bottom 3 — but you must act NOW!

Eddie Dunn
32 Posted 15/01/2023 at 09:27:07

Most of us have been lucky to have never experienced relegation. Those fans from other less fortunate clubs will probably tell of very similar fractures in the boardrooms and fanbase. I think it's just what happens to clubs that are not used to it.

Martin Mason
33 Posted 15/01/2023 at 09:34:13
I think you're right, Eddie.
George McKane
34 Posted 15/01/2023 at 09:37:07
How terribly sad. I have stressed many times over the years that mediocrity will do anything to protect itself and, once it goes down the line of self-preservation, no matter what, there is no turning back.

We reached the point of no return yesterday -- seemingly on the pitch and off. Sticking to what The Board have done to save and serve themselves with no vision to think beyond their own egos, they have put in place the beginning of the end of Everton.

They showed further their malice and intentions through their subsequent use of the media, to which we do not have access, to humiliate and malign the very fans who they were saying "saved" the club only a few months ago. Self-preservation at its most cringing selfishness.

I do not wish to stir anyone's pot or encourage any form of violence, verbal or physical, it is abhorrent at any time, but this is a critical time for the club and the fans. It is a battle between the Board, who have access to more money, solicitors and media than we have, and the real supporters.

That's on TW, isn't it. We have to act with some dignity. The media have been pestering me since last night and this morning for an interview and I normally would but I am away at the moment and it needs to be a careful approach.

I would ask a few things during this time of (yes) Civil War within Everton that we on TW cease for this period our name-calling to each other (one of the reasons I stopped posting and looking at the Live Forum). I swear, but some of the dreadful language is horrible. Personally, I disagree with many many posters but I will try not to call them personal names.

It is time to stand up and make a concerted attempt somehow to challenge these fools at board level – they are calling me and you names – to be united, even if we disagree over some things, in our attempt to "Get Our Club Back".

I am going to start writing to the media using a Banner of "Recaliming Everton" for fans and supporters. These are dire times for us Blues. Those fools at the Board level will stop at nothing to save themselves and seemingly do not care who they leave in their wake.

William Blake

Can I see another's woe,
And not be in sorrow too?
Can I see another's grief,
And not seek for kind relief?

Can I see a falling tear,
And not feel my sorrow's share?
Can a father see his child
Weep, nor be with sorrow filled?

Paul Tran
35 Posted 15/01/2023 at 09:37:12

I would argue that Dyche's record tells me he'd have a good chance of keeping us up. And if he can't pull off the miracle, he'd be a good candidate for getting us back up.

My take earlier in the season was that Lampard did well bringing in two experienced centre-backs and strengthening central midfield. They've been all at sea for weeks.

In those two areas, I think it's a coaching issue, not a player issue.

The squad is ripe for a good organiser. I'd say it's a better squad than the one Dyche left behind.

Of course, he will know plenty about our management and may wish to swerve us, but he looks a fairly obvious choice to me.

Lee Courtliff
36 Posted 15/01/2023 at 09:43:31
I feel defeated. I'm usually optimistic about an hour or two after a defeat, when I start telling myself that they'll learn from this and come back stronger, blah, blah, blah.

But right now, I simply can't see a way out. I was at the game yesterday and I could see up close and personal just how fragile we are. Coady and Tarkowski are currently no better than Keane and Holgate were last season!!

I just can't stop thinking about Sunderland and what happened to them is about to happen to us. I pray I'm wrong but I just feel like crying.

Stu Darlington
37 Posted 15/01/2023 at 09:45:11
You're right, Lyndon, a new manager and a couple of effective attacking signings could give us a chance of survival. The perennial question of course is Who?

The usual names are already being thrown into the ring: Dyche, Bielsa, Moyes, Ferguson etc.

I really have no idea who would be best for this job except that we are not going to attract a so-called “Hollywood” manager, nor would I want one.

We need to be realistic. The cavalry are not coming over the hill to save us given the present state of the club, so we are left with appointing a known manager with a record of failure or going for someone untried and inexperienced at this level.
The old “rock and a hard place” decision.

A roll of the dice, certainly, but doing nothing is not an option.
Whoever the new manager is, his brief should have only two elements in it: salvation this season and consolidation next season. The brand of football we play would not be an issue initially.

Risky though it is, other clubs have shown it can be done; it must be done and done now.

Just a final thought… has anyone mentioned Joey Barton is available yet?

Mal van Schaick
38 Posted 15/01/2023 at 09:53:26
I agree with Mark# 31. Looking at the table, we are only two or three wins from being in a far better league position. We still have the transfer window open and we have proven in the past that with gritty determination, we can get through tough times.

Personally, I think that sacking Lampard is not necessarily the answer at the moment. Let’s see what happens in the next week with player targets.

The board issue is a different matter. At the moment, we should all stick together, ensure a safer league position and then talk about the issues off the field.

Danny Baily
39 Posted 15/01/2023 at 09:56:33
Mal 38, we're 7 wins from safety. That's the only metric worth considering. Even a Newcastle style change of manager and influx of cash (and improvement in results as we saw last season) wouldn't be enough from this position.

It was most likely over on boxing day. It is over now.

Anthony Murphy
40 Posted 15/01/2023 at 09:59:18
I’m appalled and saddened by much of what we are witnessing. Too many examples to mention. For me, not sacking Lampard and replacing him stands head and shoulders above any other example of gross incompetence we have witnessed by the owner and board - it is negligence of the highest order. I cannot fathom why anyone would want to provide Lampard with more time - his record is truly shocking. We need to be just as vocal about replacing the manager as anyone else connected to the club.
Danny O’Neill
41 Posted 15/01/2023 at 10:12:20
Forlorn Hope Rick.

A term coined from when a young (often underage) officer was given the task of leading a suicidal assault to breach the defences of a well defended fort. In the knowledge they would be sacrificial lambs so the follow up force could storm in. San Sebastian 1813.

Sorry, you distracted me with your reference.

George, let me know if you need any help. I may not be the wisest but I can talk about Everton and generally think I am balanced in my views.

Lee, just keep the faith. I'm hurting as much as anyone, but we're still in this fight and we need to re-group for Saturday.

The board done a lot of damage yesterday. It's beyond repairable now in my opinion, even for the most moderate of us.

Christy Ring
42 Posted 15/01/2023 at 10:25:15
A very honest assessment Lyndon. I have backed Lampard all the way, but he has to go. I don't know if Dyche is the answer but a change is needed, but the board is rotten to the core.
Rob Jones
43 Posted 15/01/2023 at 10:25:23
Every day that Moshiri fails to act, he jeopardises his own investment, and the future of our club.

Lampard admitting his own mediocrity is damning. I think he should resign, personally, but it's not the way of the world. It's not his fault he was hired. I'm sure he's doing his best. His best, unfortunately, is pathetic.

I want Sean Dyche (sorry, I know I'm a broken record). I want a manager with a clear strategic vision, who will make us hard to beat, and who will use our limited playing resources effectively.

Most of all, I want to not hate Everton, and being an Everton fan. I despise the experience of being a fan, and I hate the club at the moment. But once Everton touch you...

Andy Crooks
44 Posted 15/01/2023 at 10:26:01
The players and coach look broken and defeated, but they are hired hands. We are Evertonians and we will never be broken or defeated. Southampton are below us and I bet they believe they will survive. Forget relegation, roll the dice, get in a new coach and fight on
We will not be relegated, this is January, we are Everton,we will survive.

Brian Harrison
45 Posted 15/01/2023 at 10:35:54
Our fans have been absolutely terrific, especially last season were they were one of the main contributors to this club staying in the Premier League. Also this season by and large have supported the team even though the results have been poor. The demonstration against the board was done as they said they would, bring out the banners before kick off then get right behind the team till the last kick which they did. They then carried out their loud and peaceful protest which I only watched 5 minutes of the protest.

But last night on social media there were pictures and videos released of a group of fans harassing Mina in his car outside the ground, while he had his child in the car. I also believe they harassed Gordon and Simms 2 of the younger squad members. Now I don't know if any of these fans were part of the protest group, but the harm they have done to the reputation of the majority of fans, is to allow the narrative to be peddled in the press that we have a group of fans who have overstepped the mark. I have no idea whether the DBB headlock story is correct or not, I do wonder why that story only came to light yesterday as the board decided to stay away because they were advised to because it was feared they could be attacked. I like many didnt believe they were in any danger but watching those video clips it just enhances their arguments about a section of our fans could cross the line.

So I appeal to the groups who got together to now call off any further protests not because I don't agree with a lot of their claims but because its harming OUR club, and also some supposed fans used yesterday to taint our brilliant fans. With any protest no matter how just and properly observed its carried out you will always get hot heads who think anything goes and it doesn't.

There is no doubt the protest group have got their massage across loud and clear and they have now got the mainstream press taking notice, so they have achieved part of their aim and I think they know deep down that the decision to change the board and sell the club is in the hands of 1 man, and I don't believe further protests can have any more impact, but I fear we may see Everton fan against Everton fan if it continues.

Simon Crosbie
46 Posted 15/01/2023 at 10:41:00
Unfortunately I tend to be on the pessimistic side. We have an owner who, like a spoilt child, is bored of playing with his toy. His recent open letter seemed more like a corporate statement sent out to aggrieved shareholders, rather than a heartfelt appeal to the young, old and in-between who live and breathe the club.

You sense that this gratuitously wealthy individual who has effectively shredded the club through poor decision making, no longer has his heart in the exercise. It is a burden, an encumbrance, an irritation best kept at a distance. What is happening to Everton is symptomatic of the precarious state of the game.

The deeply felt and generational sense of attachment to the club that for so many defines part of who we are is outweighed by a sense of entitlement powered by wealth and the presumption that the accumulation of wealth equates to knowing what is best for a football club. To complain is ungrateful. Indeed, according to Moshiri, it is our complaints that have led to instability.

This is not the Everton my late father was born into into 1926. It might seem like distant history but the might of Everton of the 20s and 30s is part of the fabric of the club, and city. For many clubs up until the 80s and 90s, ownership or patronage was often characterised by noblesse oblige, the idea that wealth should be accompanied by responsibility, and a duty to give back. It is highly unlikely that a Sir John Moores who shaped the great seasons in the 60s and 70s will come to our rescue. It is not about giving back any more.

As for the current situation what can we do? Replace the manager with another sacked manager? Seek high calibre players that are content with not playing in Champions League (if that is possible)? For the majority who follow this club, we share no burden of responsibility for the current situation. It is not of our making. Through voicing our rage however, we can continue to assert a sense of entitlement, that the club belongs to us, more so than the man who lives in Monaco.

Christopher Timmins
47 Posted 15/01/2023 at 10:43:25
Danny, I am sorry that my prediction didn't come to pass yesterday and you had yet another sad day at the office with a long trip back to London to look forward to.

Unfortunately, we are now in a Mike Ashley / Newcastle scenario. There is no way back for the Board with the fan base, indeed it's hard to see how there is a way back for the Owner with the fan base either.

All fans must act in a dignified and respectful manner going forward, we don't need any hot heads giving the Board any ammunition. The facts are there for all to see, its been a disaster under the current owner. In general the National media are on our side, lets keep it that way!

The current manager is starting to sound like a beaten docket at this stage. If Moyes and him survive until next Saturday, then depending on the result one or both of them will be out of a job next weekend and neither can have any complaints if that comes to pass.

Civil war at Everton, a truly sad time!

Andrew McLawrence
48 Posted 15/01/2023 at 10:48:32
"There are some people on the pitch, they think it's all over. it is is now"

How has it come to this? Crushing.

Anthony Jones
49 Posted 15/01/2023 at 10:55:50
If he said he's not the best coach in the world then he has to leave.
Abysmal statement from a leader when his team is under so much pressure.
Liked his honesty last season but he is too open with the media, which also gives the impression that he is a bit thick.
Trevor Peers
50 Posted 15/01/2023 at 11:01:33
Agree with Brian @45 our fans are terrific, you will always get a few mindless idiots who will go too far. This feud with the board is pointless though… at this point in time.

We need to survive and all our thoughts and actions should be to this end, we need a strong minded aggressive manager with balls of steel to guide us to safety.

Looking at Lampard yesterday he looked like he hadn't slept for a week, a hopelessly beaten man who I genuinely feel sorry for. He's on huge wages though and way out of his depth. Put him out of his misery Moshiri for pity's sake !

Mike Price
51 Posted 15/01/2023 at 11:06:01
We all know the club is in the midst of the worst crisis in most of our lifetimes.
We absolutely look doomed to relegation but the only slight chance we have is to change the manager and I agree that Dyche is our most realistic hope, plus if we do go down he’s a good fit to get us back up.
It seems that Lampard wants the sack and is going through the motions but the time and winnable games we’re burning through is catastrophic.
There’s no point focusing on the board and owner at the moment, that’s an inevitable but slow change now, but we have to change the manager…talk about a clear and present danger!
Dave Williams
52 Posted 15/01/2023 at 11:16:01
Some really good posts on this thread- no hysteria but sensible and considered- a fine example for the board to follow.

We really are in a huge mess. An owner blaming the supporters for managerial sackings, the bizarre story yesterday about DBB in a headlock( no one else saw this by the sound of things or else the press would surely have been on it much earlier), supporters blaming the owner or the board or the players or the manager, players arguing with supporters and all of that is before we get onto the on pitch problems.

Moshiri was foolish in blaming the fans and by once again speaking to Jim White which he must know has annoyed the fan base in the past. The PR department at the club should never have allowed him to do this ( or maybe they tried to stop him and couldn’t)- either way Moshiri has damaged his reputation yet again and there is no sign of reinforcements coming in to help the team.

At a time like this we need a leader. Someone to gather all protagonists together, unite them as one to fight for the greater good of the team and the club. The problem is that the candidates are all severely flawed. The owner and board have lost credibility with the supporters. The CEO whose job it is to run the business of the club has nothing to do with the playing side of things. The manager has done himself no favours with his admission that he is not the best manager around- we know that but it doesn’t sound good does it. The players trot out the usual stuff about still being confident and team spirit being good but it’s clear that there are problems with confidence and the way in which the previously solid defence has been so easily breached lately is a big worry when taken with our lack of goals.

All of this leads me to think Frank has to go. As others on this thread have pointed out there is still half the season to go and we are not adrift from the rest. yet!! It’s unfortunate for him but we can’t sack the owner, we can’t sack the board, we can’t get rid of substandard players but the situation is so toxic that we have to do something to try to stop this downhill plunge. His statement about not being the best suggests to me that he is at the end of his rope. He reminds me of Keegan when he quit the England job because he found himself unable to make decisions during a game to try to change things- something Frank is not good at doing. Simms is a fine example- a natural goal scorer not proven at the highest level but only given ten minutes to show what he can do.

So Frank goes- who comes in? It has to be a man with experience- this is no time for a rookie. Rooney isn’t doing too well in the US, Moyes is no better than Frank stats- wise and Dyche took Burnley down albeit after performing miracles for years and getting them into Europe. Duncan would be the wildcard- no experience but passion in buckets- could he get through to this bunch of largely unathletic and physically weak players? I’d go for Dyche- he knows his own mind, he knows how to set up a team to play against better footballers, our squad is much better than the one he had at Burnley. He’d be pragmatic enough to shelve thoughts of outplaying opponents and focus on scoring a goal which we can defend. This sounds grim to watch but only one thing matters and that is to get more points than three other teams- building for the future can and must wait. After Franks easygoing personality I think Dyche ( could he work with Duncan?) would shake things up, sort out the defence where Tarks and Coady have been exposed recently and would plug the gaping holes we are leaving in centre midfield.

Regardless of who comes in we have to make a change now because no win since October cannot be tolerated and giving six points away to our rivals after leading says a lot about in- game management. I posted a few days ago about Nero fiddling while Rome burns- act now before the whole club explodes!!


Brent Stephens
53 Posted 15/01/2023 at 11:18:09
I can't understand why, when playing at home, in front of a vociferous crowd, we played an isolated DCL up front, meaning no outlet from defence. Contrast that with Southampton's set-up, always numbers in close support of the man trying to win possession up front. Where was the CLOSE support for DCL, looking for knock-downs from DCL? I can't count the number of times when Grey was more advanced but too far away from DCL to feed off him.

That was a defensive set-up, that just invites pressure. And eventually pressure will leads to goals against our defence.

Rob Halligan
54 Posted 15/01/2023 at 11:24:04
As Lyndon says, and I was saying yesterday, it was this weekend last season, when we went down to Norwich, a team that hadn’t scored for six games, never mind won one. They were 2 up within 15 minutes. We played Southampton yesterday, a team that had lost their previous six league games, and they won. Next week we play West Ham who, if I’m correct in thinking have also lost their last six league games! Are we cursed by satan, the numbers 666 are very common here!
Jim Wilson
55 Posted 15/01/2023 at 11:30:55
So the tried and failed system of 352 was tried yet again and failed miserably yet again

Can we now put in place a sensible manager who plays the tried and trusted 442 or 451

Back 4 and a strong midfield and we will start picking up points but we must act immediately.

All attention should now be on bringing in a sensible manager who will play the right way, and on the club signing a hard working forward and a midfield general to help Gueye.

Nothing else, the board discussion should be in the summer. Get the new manager and recruitment sorted ASAP. The only thing that is important now is team survival.

Paul Birmingham
56 Posted 15/01/2023 at 11:30:56
Brian, @45, I agree.

Strength and unity within, is key to facing the rest of this season in the battle for Football survival.

In context of what’s at stake, Everton can’t afford to go down, so on merit on the park they must earn the right to stay up.

The biggest challenge, in any season but there’s enough games to do it, but some may say it’s not on, I’d say in football any thing can happen.

Injuries, crap officials, VAR, and bad luck will all come in to play.

One rule needs clearing up now, is when is a players offside, as like Salad v Wolves last week, and Rashford yesterday, they get away, with it.

Gray was 4-5 inches off, when the above two players were at least 1 - 2.5 yards off side.

Seriously bringing the game into disrepute.

Jason Hewly
57 Posted 15/01/2023 at 11:41:47
Some of the things I saw from the fans yesterday was shameful.

Long-winded banners, a monumentally stupid sit-in protest against aboard who weren't there, harassing players on the street, and chasing player's cars down the road.
That semi-literate idiot calling Yerry Mina "Lad" every two seconds is all over social media. His kid was in the back of the car! If anyone on here knows him, call him a berk and tell him to keep his stupid opinions to himself.

A lot of these problems are being caused by the fans. They demanded Lampard, and got him. He's as shit as everyone already knew. What were you expecting? We're playing exactly the same way Chelsea did under him, but without the higher quality players and individual brilliance to bail us out.
The toxicity in the stadium is undermining the players. They go out there knowing that if they make a mistake, thousands of people will start yelling abuse at them.
They slag off Moshiri for talking to the media. What's he supposed to do, come round to your gaff and have a cup of tea with you?

The first 3 things that need to happen are:
1. The fans HAVE to calm down and stop attacking the players. They're not helping, they're making things worse.
2. Lampard needs to be replaced with a manager. Bielsa would be ideal.
3. Kenwright needs to step away from the club. His position is now untenable.

After that, the club can take stock and start to map a way forward.

Martin Mason
58 Posted 15/01/2023 at 11:57:00
Paul@35, Dyche may well be the man to keep us up but is he the man to turn things around. Can any new head coach turn things around. For me the problem at Everton is far more deep seated. I really don't know what will happen and I have no answers that I believe can save the club. I've seen some horror shows in my 65 years of being an Evertonian but nothing has matched the disaster of this weekend
Robert Tressell
59 Posted 15/01/2023 at 12:05:59
Looking back, I think we have been destined for relegation since Ancelotti left. That was the point it became clear that we were operating under unsustainable financial constraints.

Benitez managed to bring Gray and Townsend in (and we'd have been relegated last season without them).

Richarlison was sold to avoid being sued by Burnley for financial irregularities - or given a points deduction for this season.

Lampard and Thelwell tried to overhaul the squad with frees, loans and whatever players we could pay for on the drip instead of up front.

In all honesty, we should probably have appointed Dyche to replace Silva instead of Ancelotti. That was a vanity appointment but not a good fit for the club or its finances. It set us back while giving the illusion of taking us forward.

Appointing Dyche now is probably our last realistic role of the dice but alas also probably too little too late.

Which makes me wonder really about whether there is any point, and the club should really be thinking about who / how we build a promotion side (and that may not be Dyche).

Dave Williams
60 Posted 15/01/2023 at 12:28:58

Are you saying we paid all that money for McNeil to placate Burnley?

That would answer a few questions I guess!

Derek Knox
61 Posted 15/01/2023 at 13:00:28
Dave W @ 61, it also speaks volumes as to who was involved in those negotiations too.
Robert Tressell
62 Posted 15/01/2023 at 13:39:26
Dave # 61, The reason we got McNeil and not Cornet was so we didn't have to pay Burnley any / much money. It's on the drip instead of up front.

Selling Richarlison is a different point. Without that sale it looks like we'd have been in breach of Premier League financial rules - so relegated Burnley could have sued us for, in effect, cheating. And the Premier League could have given us a fatal points deduction too.

But it all kind of adds up to prolonging the agony. The real damage was done in the first few years under Moshiri - and the writing has been on the wall since then. It certainly has been since Ancelotti left anyway. Like I say, the financial position is unsustainable.

Even if we stay up this season, we'd likely sell Pickford and maybe DCL (probably at a discount due to our distressed circumstances) in order to stay afloat - and replace them with inferior players. At that point the game is up anyway.

Eddie Dunn
63 Posted 15/01/2023 at 13:53:25
Robert, Derek, Dave, - as Lampard had droned on about not buying players who wouldn't improve the squad, it would be very interesting to know who proposed the deals for Maupay and McNeil and whether Frank agreed that they were what we needed.
Of course we, the great unwashed never get told the truth about anything and all the footballers and managers keep schtum until they retire.
Now that the shit is hitting the fan, everyone at Finch Farm, the players, coaching staff, medical people et al must all be wondering just what the future holds.
Not exactly the environment for Lampard to galvanise them into a cohesive football team.
Surely even the absent owner can see that this will not end well.
If Frank is not sacked on Monday then all hope is lost.
The new guy needs two good players to provide goals. Ings is one, Trossard may be out of our reach, but we need sombody who can link play up and actually have a shot.
Our play breaks down as soon as we hit the final third, mostly because the ball is invariably moved out wide and a cross is aimed toward DCL, who is usually either offside or marked by two centre halves.
Nobody looks to play a one-two on the edge of the semi circle, like Ward-Prowse's goal yesterday.
We might have had our most winnable fixtures but we are still on the same points as West Ham and Southampton and only a few points of many others.
All the fixtures are hard in the PL and it could be that this season the bottom half all stay within a few points until the end.
To stick with our hapless coach who has relegation stamped right across his furrowed brow, is to condemn us to that certainty.
To axe him now nad give the new guy everything in the coffers is the only hope.
I presume that Moshiri will act as his investment is about to devalue far more than the cost of paying off the cockney mercenaries and purchasing two good recruits.
Eddie Dunn
64 Posted 15/01/2023 at 13:55:30
Dave Williams -Dyche did not take Burnley down.
Steve Brown
65 Posted 15/01/2023 at 14:03:59
Dyche was responsible for Burnley going down.

He won 4 out of 32 league games before he was sacked. The fella who took over from him won 3 games and drew 2 of the final 8 games of the season.

Gareth Stephens
66 Posted 15/01/2023 at 14:08:10
Eddie, @64

I think that this is a good point about who proposed the deals for Dwight McNeil. He was being linked with us during the January 2022 transfer window while Benitez was in charge. We then go and sign him last summer.

It stinks of a signing by someone at the club while both Benitez and Lampard have been there.

Paul Tran
67 Posted 15/01/2023 at 14:08:27
Very true, Robert. I believe the inverse happened regarding Gordon. Chelsea offered a paltry amount upfront and the rest on the drip, which was no use to us.

For all that, last summer, we spent c £45M on McNeil, Maupay and Garner. Was that good value?

Lampard often rightly speaks of 'being clever' in the transfer market. There's three interesting examples of 'clever'.

Robert Tressell
68 Posted 15/01/2023 at 14:08:31
Eddie # 64,

Perhaps McNeil and Maupay were the only players we could get given financial constraints. Not just the fee but the payment terms.

Maybe that is why we're 2 weeks into the transfer window with no sign of reinforcements.

We're absolutely skint and beggars can't be choosers?

Dave Williams
69 Posted 15/01/2023 at 14:11:36
Robert & Eddie – noted.

Going forward, we have to change our approach and go back to what we did so well under Moyes, buying cheap unknowns and developing them.

Brighton and Brentford have shown how it can still be done with good scouts- something we appear to lack.

Rennie Smith
70 Posted 15/01/2023 at 14:13:09
Yesterday was the lowest both on and off the field. I've been saying for ages there are worse teams in the league, but I'm not so sure now.

It seems like a tipping point, the board can never attend another match, Frank looks completely broken and as for those scallies chasing cars, if they'd run a few over they wouldn't have been missed. A line has been crossed and I don't know if we can make it back.

Fran Mitchell
71 Posted 15/01/2023 at 14:17:02
Lampard in his interview post match looked utterly deflated, completely lost.

How is he talking to players? How are they preparing for games? How are they analysing the opposition and identifying how to play against them?

It appears that none of this is occuring, Lampard is waiting for the sack and his payoff, the players are waiting for his sacking and for someone to give some instruction.

The manner in which we play is totally directionless, I've seen more organisation and method in 5-a-side.

We play and hope things go well. But there are no tactics, there is no strategy.

It is utterly appalling and should not be acceptable at any level.

But this is a symptom of this generation of great players who have gone into management. Lampard, Gerrard, Roy Keane and Co. They went straight into top jobs because of their names.

To be a good manager to have to learn the trade. The best in the Premier League currently – Guardiola, ten Hag, Arteta, Potter (despite current issues), Klopp, Conte, Tuchel, de Zerbi, Thomas Frank, Howe – they all started either managing in lower leagues, or working under other managers, for a number of years before taking on 'big jobs'. They learnt their trade, made their mistakes, built their knowledge and developed their methods.

Frank comes in and shows videos of himself scoring great goals and winning titles.

He is absolutely not up to the job. A good manager, with a plan and method, could absolutely get more out of these players.

It has to start now.

Paul Hewitt
72 Posted 15/01/2023 at 14:27:42
So Lampard has said "he's not the best coach in the world". He's not even the best coach at Everton.
Raymond Fox
73 Posted 15/01/2023 at 14:40:37
Well we are now 4/6 to go down with only Bournemouth shorter than us and I wouldn't argue with that.

It seems like our only hope is to sign a decent striker or two and throw in a player that can create a goal as well - thats going to be very difficult and maybe impossible but we need to try like hell. Problem is the other relegation candidates will also be trying to strengthen their teams also.

As we are we cant beat anyone we have lost to the worst teams in the league,

There's 19 games still left there's plenty of time to right the ship, we probably need 6-7 wins and a few draws.

One part of me says I don't think Frank is the problem, but the other part is thinking it might be the right time for a fresh face to come in -Dyche-and give this team a kick up the ass.

We are not yet a lost cause.

Joe McMahon
74 Posted 15/01/2023 at 14:42:30
We really do need a midfielder with a football brain. I also think it would benefit Gordon and us if he goes out on loan.

8f potter does get sacked he would be my preference, thinking of the future.

Danny Baily
75 Posted 15/01/2023 at 14:43:54
Haha Paul 74, love it.
Kim Vivian
76 Posted 15/01/2023 at 15:06:06
If finances are dictating whether to change the manager (8-figure sum to pay off Frank and his entourage) or get a goal scorer, then it has to be the latter for me. I honestly believe this is why they are clinging on to Lampard.

We all had our thoughts about Comrade Usmanov, and now Moshiri simply doesn't have the dosh anymore to spunk up the wall on both options.

Or possibly either...!

David Cooper
77 Posted 15/01/2023 at 15:54:31
Our useless board obviously have no reason to explain to us how P&S Rules are is affecting the club. Maybe Paul the Esk could give us an update. But it is brutally clear we are broke and cannot gat anyone in without someone going out.

We now have 16 days to find an answer. How similar does that sound to our previous year's use of the end of the transfer window and trying to save a few weeks salary?

The only way out is to sell Gordon to either Spurs or Chelsea. I doubt if we would get £60 million now but £40 million would buy us 2 half-decent players.

There has to be someone in the Championship who has shown himself a good defensive midfielder who can shut the gaping hole in our defence and replace the ever ineffective Gana – which I think is more important and maybe easier than finding a goalscorer.

Matt Henderson
78 Posted 15/01/2023 at 16:00:02
Only a mad Club like Everton would pay £40M for Gordon.

Lucky to get £20M – he can't shoot, pass or cross. No way someone was offering £60M for him in summer or surely they wouldn't have been so stupid not to sell him?

Stephen Meighan
79 Posted 15/01/2023 at 16:01:38
Jason Hewley @57,

No players were attacked yesterday, they were confronted on the street by a few angry passionate fans.

If the players showed the same love for the club, we wouldn't be in the mess were currently in.

Paul Kossoff
80 Posted 15/01/2023 at 16:09:20

Chelsea have just bought an untried unknown, Mudryk,who has played near all his games in the Ukraine league, £89 million on an 8½-year contract! — And you say we are mad.

Is this political wokeness gone utterly mad. A club owned by a now bad Russian gets taken over by an American, who then for some unknown reason pays one of the most ridiculous contracts ever. Funny if he spends most of his time on the bench.

John Raftery
81 Posted 15/01/2023 at 16:11:36
Kim (78),

I think you are right. We can't afford to pay off Frank and his team.

Getting anything like £40M for Gordon is a fantasy.

Matt Henderson
83 Posted 15/01/2023 at 16:33:50
Paul - Chelsea were the Club rumoured to be interested in Gordon in the summer so I’m not surprised.
Les Callan
84 Posted 15/01/2023 at 16:35:57
meanwhile ………Rome burns.
Daniel A Johnson
85 Posted 15/01/2023 at 16:42:19
Frank has to go, Beaten by Bournemouth, Wolves, Brighton, and Bottom of the table Southampton at home.

That is relegation form. The only reason he hasn't been sacked is because Moshiri doesn't have the funds to fire him and his so-called coaching team.

Matt Henderson
86 Posted 15/01/2023 at 16:53:39
If they can't sack him then he should be made to have an advisor come in who can set the team up (particularly defensively) and provide guidance to him as it ain't working and we're down if things don't drastically improve. It would do him and us good.
Paul Kossoff
87 Posted 15/01/2023 at 17:07:23
Here is a question lads, if we owned Everton as a fan based ownership, where do you think we would be now, Worse off or better?
Robert Tressell
88 Posted 15/01/2023 at 17:07:28
Paul # 80, has Matt le Tissier hacked your ToffeeWeb account?

Anyway, on Mudryk, although he's not a famous name yet, pretty much every major Champions League club has been chasing his signature for a few years now. It doesn't mean he'll be a success or good value or whatever but it explains the price tag.

They might also be looking at just how well Kharavatskelia has done at Napoli too – and expecting even bigger things from Mudryk.

Paul Kossoff
89 Posted 15/01/2023 at 17:09:31
Robert 80, What's the Matt le Tissier connection?
Peter Dodds
90 Posted 15/01/2023 at 17:09:51
We're stony broke, folks, so don't expect any new signings other than loans or some cast-offs paid on the drip. Look at the fees paid for the starting XI yesterday – only Pickford (£25m) Godfrey (£25m) and Onana (c£30m) cost anything more than peanuts.

We absolutely can survive though. Although we have the least momentum out of all our peers down at the bottom (to say the least), people seem to have forgotten that we have actually won a few games this season, and earned a few draws. And our peers have done no better, or barely.

Yes, we're rubbish but so are they. And they've had the odd bit of luck or moment of magic, and we're overdue some of that too. On most other days we'd have won or drawn at least against Wolves and Southampton.

My prescription for survival?
- Sack Frank
- 4-2-3-1 formation
- Mina in, Coady out. Our points ratio is so much higher with Mina in the team. Coady is awful. Play higher.
- We don't have wing backs so stop this 5 at the back nonsense.
- Onana and Gana as twin pivots in front of the defence
- One of the forward three to play close to DCL.
- Morph to a compact 4-5-1 out of possession,

Daniel A Johnson
91 Posted 15/01/2023 at 17:14:17
You only need to look at Villa to see what happens when a useless manager is sacked and replaced with someone who knows what they are doing.

Sack Frank now and bring in Dyche,

Paul Kossoff
92 Posted 15/01/2023 at 17:17:45
Peter 90, If as people are saying in here that Alisher Usmanov owns the club, how can we be broke? Surely all that he has to do is get one of his mates to buy Everton and he funds the buy out and funding in secret.
Raymond Fox
93 Posted 15/01/2023 at 17:18:45
Its ok having a system and instructing the players what they have to do, but they have to be good enough to carry it out. Its apparent that our players are not good enough.

They have consistantly failed to score enough goals, is that the managers fault.
In the end the buck stop with the manager, but most of the time the culprits are the players.

Michael Kenrick
94 Posted 15/01/2023 at 17:27:11

"Richarlison was sold to avoid being sued by Burnley for financial irregularities – or given a points deduction for this season."

This is an odd one I'd not seen before. I thought it was common knowledge for the entirety of last season that Richarlison would be moving on at the end of it? There was no question that he wanted to move on and would be sold.

I get that the money from his sale may have helped us to over-pay substantially for McNeil, and that may have disuaded Burnley's litigation. Also, that the transfer fee may have helped the accounts just enough to assuage the Premier League...

But I would think these are side benefits from him being sold – not the reason he was sold.

Paul Kossoff
95 Posted 15/01/2023 at 17:27:29
Raymond 93, If you were the Everton manager would you sanction the players Everton have bought? Round eight players in under Lampard and I would not have brought any of them. This squad under Lampard is worse not better. He is responsible for those players. And if he just accepted someone else bringing these useless twat's in, then he has to go as he's nothing more than a mouth piece.
Robert Tressell
96 Posted 15/01/2023 at 17:31:50
Michael, it was reported (not necessarily as absolute fact) that we had to sell Richarlison when we did which then depressed the price.

Burnley had been threatening to sue before then and our financial position was very worrying.

James Flynn
97 Posted 15/01/2023 at 17:38:06
No denying that 15 points out of the first 57 is relegation form. But 57 more to play for starting with WHU. I'm all in for Frank out and Dyche in.

However boring his set-up may be, Dyche's proven over several years that he can keep a club in the league despite a lack of talent.

Don't think Moshiri can wait much longer to get Lampard out of there. He's not fit for purpose, "nice guy" or not.

Ed Prytherch
98 Posted 15/01/2023 at 17:39:42
I agree with Robert's analysis but watching the Spurs/Arsenal game, Kenwright may be hawking Pickford to his mate at Tottenham today.
Barry Hesketh
99 Posted 15/01/2023 at 17:45:08
35 points from 37 league games for Frank, if it hadn't have been for last season's good start under the Spanish manager we'd have gone down last season. Given our current form and lack of goals, it's going to be difficult for Frank or anybody else to get enough points to avoid the drop. Of course it can be done, but this winless run has to end sooner rather than later.

Fran Mitchell
100 Posted 15/01/2023 at 17:58:04
Peter, Mykolenko was expensive. much better left backs could have been signed for what we paid for him. Iwobi was 30million+. Gana is being paid a hefty wage. the fees paid for McNeil and Maupay, if a club like Brighton or Brentford spent that money, would have gotten 3/4 players. Forest just signed Gustavo Scarpa on a free, and he's looking impressive.

players we could have signed that other clubs did with similar money: Palinha (DM)17m. Damsgaard (AM) 12m. Pereira (DM) 10m. Awoniyi (SC) 17m. Aurier (RB) Free. O'Brian (CM) 6m. Estupinan (LB) 15m. Doucoure (DM) 18m. Orsic (SC) 8m. Scarpa (RW) Free.

All of these players would have been in our budget range and all would significantly improve our current team. But we get McNeil, Maupay, Garner, and Gueye for a combined 50million and about 250k a week in wages.

we never learn.

Jack Convery
101 Posted 15/01/2023 at 18:31:53
If you take a look at Brightons squad on Transfer market and see which team every player was bought from and how the young purchases are loaned back and loaned out to 2 or 3 teams to get real and valuable experience - it's an eye opener on how to scout, bring players through and get top dollar when the leave.

Cururella, the left back they sold to Chelsea was bought for £18m in 2022 and sold for £65m a year later. He's 24 !
A week or too after selling him, they bought an Ecuador left back for £17m from Villareal. Pervis Estupinan has played 15 games this season. He's a current Ecuador International.

It's not rocket science. Moises Caicedo they got for £5m in 2021. He's now valued at £38m.

They don't sell to survive but to reinvest.

I can only assume that Brighton's Chairman came to Goodison several seasons ago and asked Bill how to you do it. He then went back to Brighton and ignored everything BK told him.

Jerome Shields
102 Posted 15/01/2023 at 18:34:26

Lyndon have described Everton's situation and you have give the real detail how they have got there.I do thing that those responsible will do anything to spare there situation and use the only weapon they can, mindless Fan conduct while true or not.Even Moshiri is even blaming fan pressure for Management changes.Some of them that should have not been employed in the first place.

What I see is a out of date structure producing out of date play,from poorly prepared players,which would not take much work anyway in some cases.Everton are getting caught out by Young Managers and fit teams that are properly coached, with player who know what they are doing and can apply it.

Reclaiming Everton is a good title for a relevant article, because that is exactly what is needed.

Nick Page
103 Posted 15/01/2023 at 18:38:27
Hahaha yes Jack. It’s definitely not rocket science but it does require extensive networks and statistical analysis, plus forward planning a very good trading operation who will squeeze the other clubs and agents (spit). Reinvesting capital is key to success. Tony Bloom is a gambler, a big poker player and knows his shit. Matthew Benham (Brentford owner) worked for him at one point. Not daft these guys. Constantly evolving and shifting the boundaries. Just like Bill and the Professor.
Ian Riley
104 Posted 15/01/2023 at 18:46:58
No Moyes, no sam, no Sean but who?

The question is would any of the above do better than frank? If no, stay with frank!

I'm passed thinking who would be good enough to be our manager?

The big question is who would want to take over as manager?

Some fans need to be realistic in expectations of our next manager if it happens. The club need to put the club first. Appoint experience to get us out of this mess. If it fails you tried. Do nothing and the consequences could be bad for many years!

Karl Meighan
105 Posted 15/01/2023 at 18:47:05
Daniel@91 and James@97 no offence but Dyche has just been in charge of relegated Burnley. Lampard has made signings yet he was never adding to a position of strength, just a carcrash of garbage left from 5 or 6 different clowns.
Pete Jeffries
106 Posted 15/01/2023 at 18:52:12
All sections of the club share some responsibility for the mess were in.
Except the fans who are magnificent.
Yes Moshiri for terrible decision making in wasting money.
Yes Lampard for bad tactics and substitutions.
But for me the most culpable are the players, most of whom are simply not good enough, some are absolutely crap and the majority couldn't get a game in any other Premier team.
Without replacing the worst ones, nigh impossible at this stage it is the biggest crisis ever.
The answer is to urgently get in key players
who can provide the passes and to score the necessary goals.

Frank Crewe
107 Posted 15/01/2023 at 18:56:02
Karl 105.
Eddie Howe was in charge of Bournemeouth when they were relegated. Now he's in charge of 3rd placed Newcastle. But Apparently he wasn't good enough for Super Everton either. We Everton fans are so stuck up. Apparently we won the league back in the 1980's. Just about still within living memory, so that makes us one of the PL elite clubs, and an elite club such as ours must have an elite manager.
David Hallwood
108 Posted 15/01/2023 at 19:23:21
I was born an Evertonian; I can actually say “I blame my parents!”, and I’ve been watching them a long, long time. My first game was a 1-0 victory vs Bolton scored by Roy Vernon in the championship year of 1963 (for our younger viewers, yes there was a time when we competed at the top end of the table), I was 10 years old.

But the current problem has got me totally baffled. Is this the worst Everton team I’ve seen? Absolutely not, in fact not by a long chalk. That would go to Mitch Ward, Carl Tiler, Iden Tal et al, all good honest triers but nowhere near Premiership standard.

Look at the team Saturday; the keeper and the back 5 all internationals, ditto the midfield 3, with the front 2 showing flashes of class, albeit more gash than flash. I’m not saying we should be competing for a European place, but 8th-14th should be achievable.

Then there’s the performances; have we been ripped to pieces, lambs to the slaughter, it’s like the Alamo out there? Erm, no. Have we seen shameful, disgraceful capitulations? Absolutely, in fact plenty, plenty, plenty. Why can’t we hold onto a lead, and even build on it? Is it down to manager or are these just a poor set of players attitude-wise.

It’s easy to rant, the players are shite, the manager’s shite, in fact I’ve been guilty of it in the past, but I think it’s time for cool heads as sacking Lampard for who? Even if we were lucky enough to get a Tuchel or a Potch they would need time to get their ideas to the players-the umpteenth reset.

What the club needs is a PR campaign; it needs Kevin Thelwell to go on TV and explain what he is trying to do, how does the DoF operate, does he identify the players? Does Lampard have any say in it? Who in the name of fuck identified O’Neill & Maupay as targets? Well perhaps that would be a transparency too far. What is the budget? Just how bad are we hamstrung with FFP? etc etc.

Instead of blaming the fans, the club should start the charm offensive, oh and buy some players with goals in them.

Rob Halligan
109 Posted 15/01/2023 at 19:27:12
I don’t buy this “Which manager would come to us”? Come on lads, if you were a fully qualified coach, with all your badges, and you were asked to take over Everton for about £50K per week, knowing full well that at any stage of the season, you could be sacked and would walk away with millions, are you going to say no? More so if you were out of a job itching get back in to the game? People say why would Postecoglou, for arguments sake, leave Celtic, who play in a league where you’re guaranteed first or second place, to join Everton? Where’s the challenge in that? Other than the obvious, a substantial increase in wages, surely the challenge of wanting to better yourself in a competitive league, Waaaaaaaayyyy above where he is now, should be a good enough reason? We saw with slippy, he had just won the Scottish league with Rangers, but the lure of the premier league was just too great and he jumped at the chance to join Villa, a club he had no affiliation to whatsoever. It’s not like a player we’re trying to sign, who once a transfer window slams shut, he is stuck with us until the next transfer window. He can’t be sacked, or just walk away, like any manager can.

As stated above, maybe we are trying to aim for the best, ain’t going to happen, but when you see the likes of Brentford, Brighton, Fulham, and, I will say Newcastle, with managers who aren’t household names, then perhaps it’s time we started looking at managers of their calibre. Moshiri said when he first came in, he wanted a Hollywood manager. He thought he’d cracked it with Carlo, but it was not meant to be!

Who had really heard of David Moyes, prior to us getting him, and more importantly, who would have readily accepted him as manager? Won sweet FA as a player, and had one promotion on his CV as a manager. Similar age to Lampard as well, I think, when he took over? Apart from one season, when we were a bit too close to the relegation zone, he had us in the upper echolons of the premier league for most of his tenure. We had a few European jaunts as well for a few seasons, but still won sweet FA. I’m certainly not advocating for a return of Moyes, by the way, just simply to lower our standards a little bit when considering a new manager.

But, I still maintain that any manager would come to Everton if offered the job!

Trevor Peers
110 Posted 15/01/2023 at 19:28:27
Ian @104

By ruling out Dyche. Moyes and Sam aren't realistic, you ask Who next ?

Your automatically ruling in the only other two candidates..... Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dumb- Rooney and Ferguson. They would be appalling choices IMO, that no other premiership club would touch them with a barge pole.

Neither have the brains to or experience to keep us up, yet both would jump at the chance of another million pound pay day. That's how narrow minded the Everton board's choice will be, Kenwright will make sure of that.

Surely sticking with Frank isn't an option either, as he is on course to finish us rock bottom with less than 25 points. I've a feeling maybe that's what's going to happen.

Karl Meighan
111 Posted 15/01/2023 at 19:31:09
Not at all Frank@107 not my job to hire a manager and I would say players are more important anyway. We have bought many players from relegated teams which have been poor decisions and a poor place to look for players.

By the way Frank for every Eddie Howe who has been well backed with funds, I can give you a Allardyce, Bruce, Pullis and many more and there is still a big part of the season to be played.

We have changed managers so often recently I have forgotten how many so not sure of the answer but I am sure at least 3 quarters of them so called first team players are stealing a living and struggle for basics like a first touch.

Robert Tressell
112 Posted 15/01/2023 at 19:31:58
Frank # 107, I didn't particularly want Howe when he was last properly linked (Silva replacement?).

That's not because he isn't a big name, it's because I thought he was a "right place at the right time" manager - benefiting from a lot of money being spent by the new Bournemouth owners.

As it happens I underestimated him. He has done incredibly well at Newcastle - who must have been assuming he'd have been replaced by a more glamorous names by now.

More broadly though, I completely agree with your point that we need to recognise our present status and recruit players and managers accordingly. We've spent too long pretending to keep up with the Joneses when it's obvious we're not in their league financially. If we don't change our mindset we'll follow Sheffield Wednesday into the wilderness while well run modern clubs find it all too easy to overtake us, not just in the top flight but maybe the Championship too sadly.

Ian Bennett
113 Posted 15/01/2023 at 19:41:33
I saw an interview with Howe, and he said he reevaluated his entire coaching whilst he was away.

He rebuilt I library of training methods to fix issues he perceived in his Bournemouth experience.

Early days at Newcastle, but it looks like that break has turned him into the real deal.

Joe McMahon
114 Posted 15/01/2023 at 19:43:10
For all those years on the coachng staff I wondered what did Duncan Ferguson actually did?

Now I'm wondering what does Paul Clement do? Does anyone know?

It's not working, and worringly he's experienced.

Fran Mitchell
115 Posted 15/01/2023 at 19:47:39
The best managers of the Premier League outside the moneybags teams at the moment:

de Zerbi - no-one had heard of him before, managed clubs in Italian lower leagues, then lower level Italian teams, then Shaktar.

Frank - was unknown. managed Danish youth teams, Brondby, then Brentford.

Cooper - coach at Liverpool, manager of England youth teams, then Swansea before Forest.

Vieira - coach at City, manager in the US, manager of Nice before Palace.

All of these have progressed through the profession, and worked and learned and improved. But also, none would have been on bookies lists for potential appointments. No-one would have identified them.

It's easy to say 'there is no-one' or 'x, y, X are the only options ' but that is just the case if the club is so limited in its search. There must be innumerous football men out there who have proven themselves to be diligent and intelligent coaches and managers.

People with good ideas, modern training methods etc

Frank Lampard clearly has none of this. He hasn't done the hard work to learn, he didn't work as a coach, didn't work under another manager, used his contacts in the game to get players too good for the championship at Derby, used his contacts to get the gig at Chelsea, and through none of that has he appeared to learn the trade.

We should have cast our net much wider when looking for managers, and we should not limit ourselves to Dyche, Moyes and Co.

Pat Kelly
116 Posted 15/01/2023 at 20:05:01
We need a new manager bounce. Whoever it may be. Someone to come in with a sense of knowing what he's doing. Lampard no longer has that, if he ever had. The players must feel it. They look like they do.

Football is largely about confidence, individually and collectively. There is no confidence left after failing to win since October. It's not going to magically return. We need an authoritative figure who can organise the players and convince them they are good enough to fight this out game by game.

Doing nothing is not an option. There is far too much at stake. Years in the wilderness and financial ruin beckon. Who actually owns the half-built stadium? Who wants a Championship club with a white elephant, on and off the pitch?

Waiting to lose another game is a head-in-the-sand approach. We've done it too often to know better.

Steve Cotton
117 Posted 15/01/2023 at 20:10:16
The only way we will get out if this shit show is to bring in players who can find the net whether attacking midfield, forward or winger – or bring in a manager who can get a song out this 3 string guitar of a team.

Frank has to go unless he is allowed to bring in 3 players who can threaten the opposition's goal.

I have said before, we don't have anyone who can take good free kicks, corners or shoot from distance. We also are not allowed to spend while Chelsea and other top 6 teams can get thru £200M without a second thought...

Dave Abrahams
118 Posted 15/01/2023 at 20:19:53
Fran (115).

Going by your criteria for a youngish manager with good coaching ability and new ideas then Neil Critchley the coach at QPR might be worth a punt.

Retired by injury at 24, he joined Crewe Alex. as a junior coach, then Liverpool where he did very well, became manager of Blackpool where he won promotion to the Championship with them, kept them up, improved Simms's (Everton striker) game.

He was head hunted to join Gerrard at Villa before joining QPR and is currently on a 3-year deal with them. He has many admirers in the football world.

Jay Harris
119 Posted 15/01/2023 at 20:24:23
Just to put things into context financially, as I understand it and perhaps Paul the Esk will correct me if I am wrong.

Richy's £60M all went against last year's Profit and Loss account adjusted by the remainder on his contract.

For all acquisitions after that, the cost of the players is amortized over the period of the contract.

For example, if McNeill cost £20M and got a 5-year contract then only £4M a year would get charged to the P&L over the next 5 years.

So effectively, if we hadn't been in such shit, Richarlison's £60M adjusted by the unamortized balance of his contract (£12M) would have generated a £240M acquisition kitty.

However, because we are still making huge losses, I'm assuming not much if any of this of this is left available.

Jay Harris
120 Posted 15/01/2023 at 20:33:51
On the subject of the management issue, although many of us like Frank and hoped that he would succeed, his abysmal record speaks for itself. Despite the fact he has been dealt a poor hand with the squad available, his tactics, team selection and in-game management have been poor and his demeanour lately will definitely take us down if not addressed immediately.

We are unlikely to see any action as it seems the owner and board have put the shutters up and will not raise their heads above the parapet so we either resign ourselves to relegation and the consequences or we get right behind the team and manager and rip into all the opposition and officials cos right now we have a dog's chance and no chance of staying up.

26 points from 19 games remaining for a team that can't even get a point at home from its main rivals makes that seem highly unlikely but like Danny I am optimistic that sometging will create an Oxford moment and we will suddenly find some form. We cant carry on losing forever, can we?

Jay Harris
121 Posted 15/01/2023 at 20:37:43
Dave, thats a good shout but would he be interested in a dying dog?
Dave Abrahams
122 Posted 15/01/2023 at 20:58:49
Jay (121),

Not many I suppose but I forgot to mention: Neil Critchley once studied as a vet!!

Neil Copeland
123 Posted 15/01/2023 at 21:03:25
Dave, sounds like the perfect choice to me.
Barry Rathbone
124 Posted 15/01/2023 at 21:11:43
Fran @115,

I think that's a great post the only caveat would be those mentioned are all getting relative success at lesser lights where patience still exists.

Potter is on the verge of getting the boot at Chelsea because patience is nowhere near the levels of Brighton were oddly enough he had a similar poor start but turned it round.

For different reasons, this club is as impatient. We may not have won anything since Adam was a lad but ambition burns here more than most because of our history, the trouble is it keeps turning managers into toast after the first signs of bother.

Young or old, experienced or rookie anyone in the Goodison hotseat has to hit the ground running and keep it going otherwise they're gone.

Mike Price
125 Posted 15/01/2023 at 21:24:23
Regarding Eddie Howe, a few years back when he was doing a great job at Bournemouth I had a connection that got me into the directors box. I was sat next to an insider who was a friend of Kenwright and I mentioned I thought Howe would be a good shout for Everton.
I was told in no uncertain terms that something had gone on between him and Kenwright/our club and that there was not a chance he would ever be Everton’s manager. I’ve no idea what happened but hearing the Alan Stubbs remarks makes it sound that if you cross our leader there’s no coming back.
Brendan McLaughlin
126 Posted 15/01/2023 at 21:34:11
Then again Mike #125

There were plenty of posters suggesting Rafa got the gig in spite of Blue Bill's opposition...including a lot who were pretty anti-Kenwright.

Andrew James
127 Posted 15/01/2023 at 21:39:56
My deep worry is that, in a must win game at home, Frank essentially plays seven defensive players plus the keeper.

I was fearful about it. The pressure was on the full backs (neither of whom are wings backs) to bomb down the flanks and for Iwobi to link with Gray. DCL was left isolated and ultimately we'd be pressed back with a back five and two or three in front of them trying to defend.

I loathe this way of playing and I am surprised Frank does it. Under Big Sam we used to be really defensive and either shut sides out or got thrashed because you have no out ball and are always under pressure.

The five at the back just isn't working and I don't understand why he hasn't gone with a 4-4-2 incorporating Maupay with DCL along with wide men?

Rob Halligan
128 Posted 15/01/2023 at 21:46:52
If you want to know how evil Kenwright can be, then take a look at this. Not something I guess most would normally argue against, but if he is going to ban our former players, then any former player from any club dare not step out of line when Kenwright is around……….


Danny O’Neill
129 Posted 15/01/2023 at 21:57:02
As we are having the conversation, I'll put this one out there.

It might be controversial given his links, but if we change, Neil Critchley as a head coach under a DoF could be an outside shout.

Neil Copeland
130 Posted 15/01/2023 at 21:57:20
Rob, Kenwright has no class
Paul Hewitt
131 Posted 15/01/2023 at 21:59:55
While I agree that this owner and board need to go, the players and manager need to start earning there million pound salaries. If the board went tomorrow it wouldn't suddenly improve the team.
Jim Lloyd
132 Posted 15/01/2023 at 22:11:26
Rob, we haven't got a clue which manager would come (if asked) because up to now, it's been a manager's graveyard. I'd the choice of managers, and many players, (after Koeman's disasters) has been with a lot of imput from the disaster twins.
I'd agree with you about lowering our sites.
The job is (if it's possible!) to stop us being relegated.
Sounds terrible doesn't it! But that's where we are looking at. building a team, if the worst happens, to battle our way out of the Championship asap.
I don't see any point about saying who I'd like, or not like in either manager or player. These sods, will turn it onto us, whenever it goes wrong. All to bloody often with this crew as a Board.
Tony Everan
133 Posted 15/01/2023 at 22:36:53
Dave, Danny, Critchley is an interesting one, he is a manager who has progressed the hard way through improving players and making an impact at his clubs. He’s got the natural managerial talent and understanding. I can see him getting a Premier League club at some stage.

As you say Danny, he seems like a manger who would dovetail very well with a DoF.

Would Everton eat him alive, chew him up and spit him out ? Probably. Same goes for the rest of the names mentioned, but we’ve got to try something to get us organised and playing like a proper team again.

That will take an experienced manager , a no nonsense character to whip the team into shape and get them playing to a simple, effective plan that our players can understand.

Under no circumstances should any fan or even Moshiri think this is a lost cause. A logical course of action now, and I mean now, can put us on a path to give us a fighting chance.

Joshua Steadman
134 Posted 15/01/2023 at 00:01:48
I don't think they will sack Lampard. Not because of money but because it would take the toxicity around the club to a whole new level.

We are desperate for a change. A new manager could easily get results. For all the moaning of how bad the current squad is, only Gray is not an international or has at least been called up by his country, that started that game on Saturday.

I do believe we are better than several sides in the league, including most of the teams we have played since November.
There were a lot of Newcastle fans that were under-whelmed by Howe's appointment. Relegating Bournemouth, football at times quite boring, no experience with a big club.

We don't sack Lampard we are down.

Derek Knox
135 Posted 16/01/2023 at 04:26:05
Dave A @118 & 121,

Great shout that, by the way, and one that I certainly never thought of, and I doubt many others either. He is the sort of up-and-coming manager who wants to make a name for himself, is still hungry has learnt progressively, but not a greenhorn either.

Like someone mentioned, it could be like Moyes when he first came, a relatively unknown, but one which evolved to be a proven but limited success. He knew how to galvanise a group of players, get them very competitive and above all safe year after year, but that glass ceiling was always just out of reach.

Unfortunately I doubt whether our Board would even consider it unless applications were being invited and he submitted one. Then again, they would have to man-up and admit their mistakes and sack Frank, or hope that he would resign.

He has got more than enough money to last his lifetime, so why is he hanging on for another fat compensation package, which allegedly we can't afford?

Sean Roe
136 Posted 16/01/2023 at 06:44:10
Every day that Lampard is still in charge is another nail in the coffin.
Derek Thomas
137 Posted 16/01/2023 at 06:45:48
They'll fanny about, leave it too late, and then sack him...probably after 'The St Valentine’s Day Massacre' (c.) at Anfield, leaving the new guy too few games to make up the slack.
Jerome Shields
138 Posted 16/01/2023 at 07:15:47
The problem.of bringing in any manager is an archaic structure at Finch Farm using dated methods.Which is supported by the internal management of the club.

They monitor and dictate the transfer policy andplayers to source according to Premier League Profitability and Sustainability Rules and an agreed plan of action with that Committee.

On top of that, you have a squad that was poorly formed with a number of aged and injury-prone players in contracts.

Ajay Gopal
139 Posted 16/01/2023 at 07:38:42
I believe Moshiri/the board have given Lampard until the West Ham game. A draw or a win will save Lampard. A loss will definitely see him sacked. For me, after being swayed one way and another, I have come to the conclusion that if we lose against West Ham, we need to pull the plug. What the club and the players need is a good coach - who understands the strengths and weaknesses of players and plays a system that makes the most of the collective strength of the 'team' not individual players.

Dave (118), those are type of managers that Everton should be considering - experienced in coaching at lower levels, smart, hands-on. I have added him to my list of 'potential next Everton manager', which consists of (in no particular order of preference):

Sean Dyche
Nuno Santos
Scott Parker
Neil Crithchley

Only 2 of them are out of a job now, and especially Critchley I doubt would walk away from QPR after just joining them. Maybe an option for the future.

Ian Bennett
140 Posted 16/01/2023 at 07:52:35
Frank will get the bullet after the West Ham game.

Two weeks till the next game, they should have a replacement in by then. Expect Dyche rumours by end of the week being firmer on the press.

Andrew Ellams
141 Posted 16/01/2023 at 08:02:00
Not much chance of Critchley coming in. He's only been at QPR for a month and if he did the cries of RS plant would soon be ringing round if he failed to improve the team.
Colin Glassar
142 Posted 16/01/2023 at 08:05:23
This club has been in a death spiral for more than 30 years now. Successive managers (with the exception of Moyes) have slowly but surely overseen our gradual (managed?) decline.

Our history weighs us down. We are a sentimental lot, always looking backwards rather than forwards. Our beloved chairman best encapsulates this with his boys pen, cannonball kid, good times reminiscing.

We had a chance with a new owner but blew it as usual as he was sucked into the ‘Everton Way’. He’s turned a museum into a mausoleum in less than a decade all with the help of that great Evertonian.

So, perhaps it is time to give up the ghost and accept our reality. Perhaps it’s time to free ourselves of the past and start a new slate in the championship. It’s a betrayal, I know of our glorious past but maybe we can do a rebuild. Rid ourselves of the rubbish who currently run the club (and the majority of the players). Get progressive thinking people to run the club, manager included.

It can be done. Man U, Man City, Spurs, Chelsea, Newcastle etc… have all been relegated but look where they are now. We need to change our mentality and I don’t think yearly struggles against relegation is going to help us or improve us, it just adds to the pressure and acceptance of mediocrity ie survival at any cost.

Tony Abrahams
143 Posted 16/01/2023 at 08:37:50
Moshiri did all this because he kept Bill Kenwright, Colin.

With regard to him and Moyes, I heard they used to buy each other new blankets, slippers and pajamas every Christmas. (Take the money David, and keep your mouth shut, don't be like that silly divisive Benitez over the park.)

This board of directors have no shame and this club needs to get rid of them asap. They feared for their own safety? I twice watched Brian Clough run onto a pitch full of fans, smacking anyone in his way.

Nothing is going to convince me that these phoney bastards have not only taken the easy way out, they've tried to damage a whole fanbase.

Those kids on the streets were ridiculously reckless and incredibly stupid but the narrative had already been set by the stay away board members and their wonderful PR machine.

Sean Roe
144 Posted 16/01/2023 at 08:44:50
In my opinion, if we had gotten rid of Lampard after the Bournemouth game and appointed someone with at least a bit of experience and tactical nous to work with the squad in that 6 weeks, we would have beaten both Wolves and Southampton and would be sitting in mid table.

To give Lampard yet another game against those around us is Premier League suicide.

Colin Glassar
145 Posted 16/01/2023 at 08:56:41
Sean, I've come to the sad conclusion that no manager can save this club long term under the present structure.

Of course Moshiri should've got rid of Kenwright and his cronies but it's too late for that now. We need a cleansing from top to bottom. If not, we will just lurch from crisis to crisis.

Andrew Myers
146 Posted 16/01/2023 at 09:00:30
I fully support fans right to protest when the team/club are clearly in turmoil, and have been for years (dare I say since Moyes left!). However when the team clearly needs new blood, who in their right mind would join knowing a small number of “so called fans” will abuse you, chase your car and try and stop it and generally be quite threatening? Some of what happened on Saturday shamed the club as much as the Board and some players have done over the years. Threatening behaviour is never the answer.
Sean Roe
147 Posted 16/01/2023 at 09:03:40
I know what you are saying Colin and I agree, but if Everton were a boxer I would at least want to see him throw a few punches and make a few blocks, even if it was evident he was going to lose.
Trevor Peers
148 Posted 16/01/2023 at 09:07:51
A lot of people are assuming if we are relegated this board will be sacked. Where's the evidence?

There's no reason why Moshiri would make any changes in board personnel, including Kenwright, judging from his present attitude, unless of course he's lucky enough to sell the club but who would buy a club in such an awful financial state. We won't be worth a carrot.

Iain Latchford
149 Posted 16/01/2023 at 09:09:56
It looks like Lampard will get the West Ham game. There is a break after that due to the FA Cup 4th round. Win and he'll stay. Lose (or even draw) and he'll be gone. Game after that is Arsenal, which is almost certainly a loss. Looking at the fixtures all the other teams around us have tough games that weekend too, thankfully.

We need to win 7 games from 19, and Lampard has won 9 in 37 in the league. Does not make good reading. Two goal scoring forwards are vital if we're going to have any chance. We have to beat West Ham.

Bill Fairfield
150 Posted 16/01/2023 at 09:11:45
Kenwright is not going anywhere. The club is heading for the championship. The relationship with the fans and board of directors is broken beyond repair. Putting poison in the press against your own supporters before this game is unforgivable. The Chairman will be remembered for the man who destroyed Everton football club……..gutted.
Matt Henderson
151 Posted 16/01/2023 at 09:20:35
We’ve got the same people scouting and making decisions on manager appointments that do the same on player purchases. What the chances of us getting a good manager in at all let alone getting one in quickly. If/when they sack Frank we will be weeks with an interim in as these guys cannot plan a thing
Andrew Myers
152 Posted 16/01/2023 at 09:21:18
I fully support fans right to protest when the team/club are clearly in turmoil, and have been for years (dare I say since Moyes left!). However when the team clearly needs new blood, who in their right mind would join knowing a small number of “so called fans” will abuse you, chase your car and try and stop it and generally be quite threatening? Some of what happened on Saturday shamed the club as much as the Board and some players have done over the years. Threatening behaviour is never the answer.
Matt Henderson
153 Posted 16/01/2023 at 09:42:24
I agree with Colin. We have issues at every layer of the organisation. The owner is a moron who somehow thinks he knows what he is doing despite all evidence to the contrary - step one in his rehabilitation would be for him to realise he’s not got a clue. The chairman suffers from the same issue and has a main motive of clinging to power so his decisions are based on that rather than what is best for the Club. The Board/ceo offer nothing as they’re only there in name only to give the impression we have a Board. All key decisions/structure/culture of the Club stem from this flawed top layer of the organisation leading to poor manager and player selections, a poor scouting network and poor business decisions and planning etc.

If we had an owner/chairman who recognise they don’t have a clue and surrounded themselves with people who do we’d be much better off but as with many rich people they are too arrogant to think they could ever be wrong and have too many yes men around them.

But we need to survive so step 1 is we need to get rid of Frank and hope someone else can keep us up and work on the other issues at the same time. Surely if things continue the owner and chairman can no longer overlook their own inadequacies

Anthony Murphy
154 Posted 16/01/2023 at 09:59:47
So many distractions whilst the need to replace the worst Everton manager since Mike Walker flies under the radar. If we go down (and we will) it’s the failure to replace Lampard at the right time that will be the deciding factor. Another appalling decision by an incompetent owner and board. Our priority right now needs to be what’s happening on the pitch. Like it or not, we need to focus right now on the failings of Lampard and the coaching staff not DBB - for all her shortcomings, she is not responsible for matters on the pitch - yes she needs to go, but right now our need is to demand the removal of Lampard. I cannot stand this ‘he gets us’ nonsense - c’mon ffs shift the focus on him for now.
Danny Baily
155 Posted 16/01/2023 at 10:05:36
Anthony 154, your post is spot on but 3 weeks too late.

A new manager and improved form won't be enough from here out. Better to stick, at least until the summer, and keep our powder dry for what comes.

Julian Exshaw
156 Posted 16/01/2023 at 10:09:53
If Moshiri thinks Lampard can get us out of this mess then fair enough but he needs to do it because he believes that. What we don't want is him using Lampard to score points against us (the fans) or to buy credit for himself. All these games will only lead to one thing: relegation. Get a grip man!
Brian Harrison
157 Posted 16/01/2023 at 10:22:28
I think Lyndons title to this post sums up exactly were we are in a death spiral. We have lost our last 4 home games, first time we have done that since 1958, and those losses doesnt include any top 10 side, in fact 2 of those defeats were to 2 clubs at the bottom of the league. We are joint bottom of the league, and yet it looks like our owner is going to give one of the worst managers to ever grace this club another week in charge.

It may already be to late to stop us being relegated, whoever we appoint as a new manager, but to allow Lampard to continue for another week is bordering on admitting the dye is cast and there is no way we can escape relegation. Or maybe the people they have approached to take over arent interested, and who could blame them. they would come into a club that is in turmoil, a dispirited group of players and very little if any money to spend on new players. The only likely candidates are those who have been recently sacked but the scenario in joining Everton is escape relegation or be sacked, and yes they would no doubt walk away with a few million in compensation but another failure on their CV will make it even harder to get another job.

Or maybe Moshiri has decided that Usmanov and I have pumped in over £500 million to buy players as well as building a new stadium and the fans want me out. So all my efforts are now to get new owners while refusing to spend any more money on players. Yes if we get relegated he will lose a lot of money but maybe he is prepared to do that in order to get out. Now if that is the case then dropping one division might just be the start of our stagnation.

Steve Brown
158 Posted 16/01/2023 at 10:27:19
Come on, there are 19 games left to play and 7 poor teams in the division separated by 2 points. We were looking at 13th during half-time and we are second bottom at full-time - the margins are thin.

My main hope is that there are a lot of team around us compared to last season.

There are big decisions needed in the next 2 weeks, chief among them being to sign a striker, winger and creative midfielder. Whoever is manager needs more attacking options

We are obviously limited by transfer budget, but probably more so now a reluctance to sign players on wages we cannot financially sustain if we are relegated. Hence, loan with an option to buy seems to be the approach. And it doesn’t seem to be working!

Nick Page
159 Posted 16/01/2023 at 10:38:03
No chance Steve. We’re being outbid (if we even were bidding) by Bournemouth. There is no ambition at this football club. It’s run by arrogant cowardly fuckwits who think they know better but in reality are completely out of their depth and have been for an age. We’ve got no money, no fight, a crap manager (on his own admission), are operating on losses, haven’t bought an actual striker for years and score less goals ever season whilst we slip into oblivion. We’ve hit the proverbial buffers. The sooner we all come to terms with relegation the better because that is where are going and will finish bottom by a stretch. But if we’re going down we’re taking these bastards that have ruined the club with us, that’s for sure.

160 Posted 16/01/2023 at 10:43:08
I Imagine Iwobi and Gordon's agents must be getting some earache, what chance now of their £100k a week contracts ? Greedy beyond belief.

Serve them right at least some common sense will fall on our players salaries from now on. £10k a week is about right for Gordon, we missed a trick selling him in the summer what's his worth now £10 million ?

Tony Abrahams
161 Posted 16/01/2023 at 11:09:58
Andrew@152, that’s true and a very good point, but what has happened to humanity, if a few idiotic kids, are going to stop professional footballers wanting to play for Everton?

I know life has changed, but maybe Everton have become so poor because the players lack real personality? This is what I think, when I hear people saying, who would want to come and play for Everton now?

Martin Mason
162 Posted 16/01/2023 at 11:33:00
The problem now is that the club has lost the fans. The majority of fans? No idea.
I'm pretty despondent about the whole situation but while we're not down I'll believe that we can turn it round. Every sign that I see though indicates an inevitable very bitter end.
Clive Rogers
163 Posted 16/01/2023 at 11:41:25
Martin, yes the club has lost the fans and the fans have lost the owner. He has turned against us. The worst possible scenario. God knows what the clown might do. I really fear for EFC.
Martin Mason
164 Posted 16/01/2023 at 11:47:04
I agree Clive, really bad times.
Daniel A Johnson
165 Posted 16/01/2023 at 12:17:16
Dyche will get us organised and hard to beat and if the worse happens will also be the best bet to get us out of the championship. Lampard is out of his depth every match he stays in charge is another match wasted.

Get frank out now.

People argue about Dyche getting sacked from Burnley but what he did on that budget was a minor miracle same as Howe before he also got the sack from Bournemouth.

Daniel A Johnson
166 Posted 16/01/2023 at 12:23:45
I'll still argue in recent years Marco Silva is the best manager we've had. I'm also convinced Steve Ferns (remember him) used to run his fan club.
Barry Hesketh
167 Posted 16/01/2023 at 12:26:39
Daniel @165
I am loathe to agree with you on appointing Dyche as Everton manager, however, he is probably one of the few people, who would relish the opportunity to mould this current squad into some sort of shape.

Problem being he would face a great deal of resistance from some of the highly paid players already here and he similarly to Frank would find it difficult to rid himself of the hangers-on.

He would have the team organised, but would that be enough in our present predicament, I'm unsure, but the club is running out of road and we can't continue to keep losing games week in week out and something has to alter to save our season.

Danny O’Neill
168 Posted 16/01/2023 at 12:35:46
Daniel, I'm personally not a fan of Dyche. I get the feeling we've crossed the line of departure in terms of changing the manager. But I don't profess to know. Especially with this scattergun leadership we have. They are unpredictable. I don't want to sound controversial, but I think Kim Jong-un would do a better job.

Don't take me too serious there. I'm just upset and it's only Monday.

So right now, where my head is. Hoping we get a few striking options in before the end of the month and tightening my seat belt, starting at the London Stadium in Stratford on Saturday.

Tony Abrahams
169 Posted 16/01/2023 at 12:41:52
That’s why I’m calling for a meeting between the players, manager and fans on another thread Martin. The board have lost the fans, but it’s imperative that the players are made to realize our frustration, (if this is actually needed) and also be made to realize, that they haven’t lost the true support just yet. (Then they can also hopefully tell us a few things in return)
Derek Knox
170 Posted 16/01/2023 at 13:07:02
Just been reading (probably clickbait) that a player we have allegedly been following with a view to signing Django Outtara, is likely now to prefer Bournemouth to us, has it really come to that ?

Furthermore, I read also that we may be interested in Duvan Zapata, who is a proven goal-scorer, and Michael Antonio, 31 and 32 respectively, to get us out of the doo-doo. While they are both double figures a season strikers, will they be stop-gap, or on decent contracts, it almost gets worse.

Raymond Fox
171 Posted 16/01/2023 at 13:36:37
I've said before along with others on here, we don't actually know who has the final say on which players are bought or loaned.

The club cant attract the very best players, they want to play for Champion League clubs not us. You end up with choosing either players that are good but not the best or trying to find nuggets from lower divisions or foreign players. Over recent times we have not chosen very well.

The successful managers and teams usually have one or two players that can make all the difference between winning a game or not, we have not had a real match winner since Lukaku left. I suppose you could say Richarlison but to a lesser degree, Liverpool are not the same team since Mane left.

Quality players have a big say in helping managers to look good.

Jerome Shields
172 Posted 16/01/2023 at 13:57:52

Silva was a good Manager, but Moshiri who had sourced and employed him made a series of foo pas. Firstly he had Brands interview him though Brands contract had not started, though Silvo was clearly appointed.Secondly he promoted Brands to the Board and at the AGM basically said Silva would need to perform.Both of these showed a disregard for Silva.

Silva in the last quarter of that season produced some of the best performances that had been seen in Seasons..Brands at the beginning of the Transfer window talked about the need to control spending. It then materialised that Brands was not his own man and on Moshiri releasing finance, other parties got involved in the Zaha saga, which derailed the Transfer strategy, leaving Silva without the players he required.
When the failings of this became evident in the first part of the new season, Silva got the blame and Brands got away Scot free, because the real culprits would be exposed.

If Steve Ferns had have had anything to do with it, Everton would not have been in the situation they are now in.

Matt Henderson
173 Posted 16/01/2023 at 14:02:09
Raymond - not chosen very well alright but I think that is largely down to the horrendous planning. I was reading recently that Brighton had been scouting their new current manager for 18 months prior. Can you imagine us doing that? When they got rid of Rafa, which they must have known was a chance for months prior, they messed about for weeks trying to work out what to do. Maybe the DoF will do better moving forward if he’s allowed to make decisions but the Maupay acquisition indicates we just seem to pick names out of a hat when it comes to recruiting
Daniel A Johnson
174 Posted 16/01/2023 at 14:33:08
Without doubt Marco Silva is a good manager his exploits with Fulham in the championship and this season prove that.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing given the situation we are in now but maybe we should have stuck with him?

Jerome Shields
175 Posted 16/01/2023 at 14:42:20

For some time Everton has not been seen as a good career move.The Transfer Policy now is being dictated by those that negotiate with the Profit and Sustainability Committee who thing they know what they are doing. In some cases without the Manager involvement and maybe against their wishes The same ones that squandered millions on average players, giving them Pop star contracts.They just can't keep their interfering mitts to themselves, thinking they know it all.

Bill Gall
176 Posted 16/01/2023 at 14:45:55
Well reading the reports today it seems nobody is making any decisions, coming up to only 14 days left in the window and with the knowledge months before of what is needed, all we read and hear about is players we are interested going to other clubs and this is not the fault of the DOF or Manager it is strictly because of the mess the club is in due to the ineffective Owner and Board

It shows the state the club are in if a player prefers Bournemouth to Everton and that is no disrespect to Bournemouth, but a notice to the Owner and Board of the reputation of a poorly run club,

Jim Lloyd
177 Posted 16/01/2023 at 15:56:57
Robert 59 & 62 Really good posts

There's talk about sacking the manager and buying players, but do any of us know if we are able to spend any money at all. Robert and others have pointed out that Burnley and others wanted to sue us for breaking the P&S rules. He and others have mentioned why we bought a fairly ordinary player in McNeill and another in Maupay

None of us know for certain; but Robert's analysis explains a lot as to why we cant just sack a manager and his enourage because we may well not have the money to do so.

It might well be that ther only players we can acquire, IF ANY; will come at the end of the Transfer window and they might not be the standard of players we need to get us out of this mess.

Solutions offered, are all dependent on factors that none of us know about. so they might not be possible. If we have to; or want to keep the manager, it might have to depend on who we can sell; and all clubs will offer is buttons, because they know we're in dire financial straits (that is only my thoughts of course. That would lead me to think we should sell Pickford, as our reserve goalie is decent, we should try and sell Gordon for what we can get and buy the best goaslscorer we can get hold for the money we can raise (likely to be on the drip as well.

If we have to choose, I'd much rather have a prolific goalscorer and a reasonable Goaiie, than a top class goalie and rubbish goalscorers Don't know what's up with Garner but he may be available soon, as I think Gueye is unfortunately, past it. Because of our position (financially as well as league place) clubs know we're desperate.
If we could also get a decent midfielder who knos how to create chances and support the attack, then I think we might have a chance. Either in this league, or the Championship.

Mike Price
178 Posted 16/01/2023 at 16:24:13
I've been checking the news all day praying for Lampard to have resigned preferably or been sacked.

I think Moshiri painted himself into a corner with that ridiculous interview last week where he referenced his support for Lampard and the next two critical games. If he does anything before the two games, it makes him look even more stupid.

The trouble now is, if we win or draw and keep Lampard on, we are doomed. It creates a no-win situation for the West Ham game because only if we lose is there a chance Lampard will be gone, which may give us a tiny, but shrinking, chance of survival.

Ed Prytherch
179 Posted 16/01/2023 at 16:42:41
Jim 177 - Good post. We are hog tied by P&S rules. My understanding is compliance is measured over a 3 year rolling period and if we keep a tight belt this year the situation will improve during the summer window. We have to find a way of surviving this season and then Moshiri might be able to cut his losses and sell to someone who will sack the board and bring in new blood. My hope is that we find American investors who either have experience running a sports business or have close associates or clients that do.
Steve Brown
180 Posted 16/01/2023 at 16:48:14
Love this


Jim Lloyd
181 Posted 16/01/2023 at 17:23:14
Thanks Ed

I agree with you that it's obvious but true enough for that. This season is even more important than last. Because there's all kinds of undertones taking place and they all come to a head at the close of this season.

You're right about the stadium and whether this will bring new owners (hope so!) who'll get rid of Kenwright and his croneys. It's so important that we stay up; but the Board/Owner might well not have or not want to fork out, the funds to bring in a new manager and players, without selling for enough to buy 1 or two( good/very good if we can get em) players.

The Americans have long experience at investing and running sports outfits. The quataries have oodles of cash. Hopefully one or the other become the new owners.

I thibnk that if we don't sell; and carry on with the Corner Shop gang...we've had it, mate.

Steve Brilliant :) :)

Clive Rogers
182 Posted 16/01/2023 at 19:10:25
Jim, Quatar own PSG so there is no chance of them buying Everton. There’s some good American prospective owners, but an awful lot of bad ones.
Barry Hesketh
183 Posted 16/01/2023 at 19:16:14
Clive @182

The owners of PSG are in dispute with the local council because they want to spend money updating the ground. They have said that, if they spend the money on improvements, they want to own the Parc De Princes stadium.

The local council have said No to that. There were also rumours that our neighbours are their Number 1 target.

Clive Rogers
184 Posted 16/01/2023 at 19:22:24
Barry, didn’t know that but they certainly won’t be interested in us. Nobody will in our current position with big debts and making record losses.
Mike Price
185 Posted 16/01/2023 at 21:21:57
If we go down and lose all the Premier League revenue streams but still have massive debts and ridiculous contracts to service then surely the asking price for a massive, historic club will plunge making it a potential bargain for someone.

Didn't Ken Bates sell Chelsea for a pound! The losers will be Moshiri & Usmanov and if someone gets the club for a low price there'll be more to invest moving forward.

That's the only positive slant I can put on our few imminent years in the lower divisions.

John Boswell
186 Posted 16/01/2023 at 22:16:52
We all feel that our club is heading for the Championship next season and Moshiri seems to be confident that all things Everton are under control. He has full confidence in the manager and the board. Why?

Why has he not replaced his own appointments to the board? He is prevented from spending more cash by the rules of P and S. It appears that he is content with the current direction of the club.

How can this be so? He is an accomplished accountant by trade, will it be beneficial to him and the club to be relegated to the championship? Our owner may not understand running a football club but he understands money incredibly well.

Dire times, COYB.

Jim Lloyd
187 Posted 17/01/2023 at 00:18:15
Clive, we've got bad ones now. There are also several, very, very rich members of the Quatari aristocracy (for want of a better word, Who have their own massive wealth.
Any investor,takeover probably involves risk assessment; but look at the alternative. What we have now is leading us into the Championship, unless we are extremely lucky, and have successfully alienaed the majority of supporters in to the bargain.
Craig Walker
188 Posted 17/01/2023 at 09:17:41
Rumours that Chelsea and Spurs are no longer interested in taking Gordon. It never rains...

Here's me thinking that we'd be alright. Get to January. Get some players in. We don't even get linked with players, now. It's 17 January. Probably too skint to sack the manager. Has it ever been this desperate?

Close to packing it all in but it's like a drug – one more hit, our luck will change, our time will come. Love and hate in equal measures with Everton.

Clive Rogers
189 Posted 17/01/2023 at 10:30:39
I would estimate that, with the new ground costing £760M plus what the club owes Moshiri for the loans he has made, plus other debts, that – if we go down – our debt could be over £1 billion.

Who would want to take that on with a club making losses year after year? Correct me if I'm wrong. Where's Paul the Esk when you need him?

John Harrop
190 Posted 17/01/2023 at 15:16:22
A gloomy article in the Guardian today:


The final paragraph:

There will be no trophies. There will be no famous Champions League nights at Bramley-Moore Dock. You will not get to see the world’s finest players in an Everton shirt. You do not even get the giddy underdog rise through the divisions like fans of Brighton or Brentford or Wigan. Your owner is a billionaire who will never speak to you or attend a game, and if he wants to run the ship aground there is not a damn thing you can do about it. No matter how loudly you sing, no matter how many blue smoke canisters you let off, the limit of your ambition will always be top seven and occasionally signing someone promising from Burnley.

Right now, just staying in the Premier League would do!

Raymond Fox
191 Posted 17/01/2023 at 15:38:27
That's it in a nut shell.

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