COLUMNIST JOE JENNINGS
David Moyes — Key-holder to success?
By Joe Jennings : 07/06/2008 : 
Comments (34) :
Comments (34) : ?The man is relentless?. A comment made from the man Evertonians love to hate, chairman Bill Kenwright. Although he is the worst payer in the West End, fails to scatter the Goodison penny jar and is genuinely a barrier to progress, this particular view point must not be ignored, I have to agree.
Who else but Glaswegian David Moyes. Undoubtedly Moyes has had bumps along the ride, but the importance of this man, with regards to development at Everton Football Club, should not be underestimated.
I am a firm believer of luck in football, turns of events that shape futures. In my mind, nothing features more prominently than the Tottenham game back in 2007, Everton lost 1-2 and Moyes was subsequently booed off. It was a wretched night, not even mentioning the weather, but it was one of my lowest ebbs as a supporter of Everton.
The substitutions made by Mr Moyes that night were absolutely crucial in shaping the subsequent change in managerial style. I won't need to remind readers of the changes made but undoubtedly anybody who disputes the fact that David Moyes altered the way he managed and structured his side after that night is embarrassingly deluded and possesses an ill equipped football mindset.
To many, including myself, Moyes didn?t seem to be the type to be affected by the jeers of a disgruntled and dissatisfied crowd. But in my opinion, that night hurt Moyes, it made him realise not only the emotion of the fans but the disapproval of his defensive minded layout. You could argue, although we as fans like to think we are the lifeblood of football, in reality we are not, we are merely paying customers but something changed within Moyes that night, it was striking, a change in philosophy.
Moyes has avoided scares during his Everton tenure, even this season when we scrapped and proved truculent in a potentially dangerous UEFA Cup First Round encounter over in the Ukraine. Victory not only provided joy for Moyes, but salvation, as had we of exited in the light nights, in my opinion, the position of David Moyes would have became unattainable. The evident relief, shown through the celebrations of Moyes was blatantly observable for all to see. Through victory Moyes not only cemented his future, but restored fortitude to a titled fan base.
As speculation continues to mount over the future of Moyes, should we realistically ponder a future without the Scotsman? I find it impossible, I simply cannot look past the work of Moyes and if the contract situation is not resolved soon enough, we could not only find ourselves manager less but toothless and sinking without trace. Call me a lover of hyperbole, but it would be a heinous crime, unforgivable, not only if David Moyes was let slip through the net, forced out through a distinct lack of ambition but soul destroying if we as a club let our remarkable progress diminish.
Sadly, I missed those halogen days of the 80?s, unfortunately I can only look back through the endless DVD?s with pride and sheer emotion, it provides the platform of who we are today and what we represent. Yet since Moyes has took over the reigns, he has, without doubt raised my head and made me proud to call myself a supporter of Everton and for that he will always hold my eternal gratefulness. Some of the games, the emotions involved with them, particularly this season have been sublime, and maybe I?m not educated enough to base such an assumption, but possibly rival the glory days of the 80?s, it means so much. Without Moyes and the evident affinity he has towards the club we love, would this be the case?
David Moyes is not only a man who has learned from his mistakes and subsequently watched the stock of Everton rise immensely, but a man who holds the key to the success of Everton Football Club. He appreciates the huge, loyal band of supporters, whom, in my opinion, are as equally important to the pursuit of success. At times we have conjured up football exhibitions, at times the football has been dire. One thing proves a certainty, Moyes not only has the support of what he calls a ?proper football club? but the bulging, relentless, success seeking nature that will prove so imperative to ensure the awakening giant that is Everton, scales the peek of success gracefully.
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Your English is terrible ? is this a joke? You missed the ?halogen days??
An article that quite rightly praises David yet one launched dismayingly on the back of stinging criticism of Bill.
I’d hardly describe myself as Bill’s biggest fan but two things worth considering; who exactly was it who appointed David? And secondly, as David has time and again proved himself a man of integrity and honesty (not least by the donation of the Rooney libel damages) why do we never hear him say anything negative about the support he receives from Bill and the board?
I’m sure David wishes his transfer kitty were larger but there isn’t a manager at any level anywhere in the world who doesn’t think the same way: it’s the nature of the beast.
So, you know, fine if you don’t like Bill but it would be nice once in a while to read something on here about the club (good or bad) that isn’t used as yet another stick with which to beat the Chairman.
I’d hardly describe myself as Bill’s biggest fan but two things worth considering; who exactly was it who appointed David? And secondly, as David has time and again proved himself a man of integrity and honesty (not least by the donation of the Rooney libel damages) why do we never hear him say anything negative about the support he receives from Bill and the board?
I’m sure David wishes his transfer kitty were larger but there isn’t a manager at any level anywhere in the world who doesn’t think the same way: it’s the nature of the beast.
So, you know, fine if you don’t like Bill but it would be nice once in a while to read something on here about the club (good or bad) that isn’t used as yet another stick with which to beat the Chairman.
How is it I just knew that once I reached the place where Joe had used the word ’halogen’ that someone would comment on this in an uncomplimentary manner.
Simon,was it really necessary,when someone has taken the time and has the passion for this great club of ours to pen a very good article as Joe has done. Behave yourself and simply congratulate Joe on a very good article,and besides I was very much around in those ’halcyon’ days of the mid 80’s and I think Joe’s use of the word ’halogen’ is very apt as the team of that era lit up the football landscape and the lives of all Evertonians greatly then!
Simon,was it really necessary,when someone has taken the time and has the passion for this great club of ours to pen a very good article as Joe has done. Behave yourself and simply congratulate Joe on a very good article,and besides I was very much around in those ’halcyon’ days of the mid 80’s and I think Joe’s use of the word ’halogen’ is very apt as the team of that era lit up the football landscape and the lives of all Evertonians greatly then!
I agree with much that has been said about Moyes. He is a ambitious young manager and as long as the club match his ambitions I believe he will stay as our manager. That night agaist Spurs was a turning point for Moyes, it re-enforced his belief that the fans come first. BK must be congragulated on the appointment of Moyes.
Tony W to be fair on two counts the criticism of BK was hardly as destructive as it could easily have been and do you know anyone that publicly slates their boss and expects to remain in their job? DM has made sufficient statements along the lines of he needs more funds than he has had to progress further. A good article on DM but don’t belittle it because of one tiny paragraph on BK who is riddled with faults.
I much preferred the Tungsten days of the seventies myself
Gavin, I’ve belittled nothing.
If David is having such a terrible time under BK then he’ll walk. It’s as simple as that. Until that happens (and I suspect the day can’t come quick enough for those who can’t wait to put the boot in on BK for whatever reason) then I think it’s only fair to apportion some credit to BK for the progress we have made under David.
If David is having such a terrible time under BK then he’ll walk. It’s as simple as that. Until that happens (and I suspect the day can’t come quick enough for those who can’t wait to put the boot in on BK for whatever reason) then I think it’s only fair to apportion some credit to BK for the progress we have made under David.
Danny Relph wrote "I much preferred the Tungsten days of the seventies myself".
I’m still yearning for the days of gas lamps in the street, the 2-3-5 system, ale at sixpence a pint and Flash Gordon at the picture palace !!
I’m still yearning for the days of gas lamps in the street, the 2-3-5 system, ale at sixpence a pint and Flash Gordon at the picture palace !!
Martin Kulkarni, I’m going to side with Simon Williams a tad here.
On the one hand I agree with you it is a cheap shot if someone’s post is criticised only on its spelling/grammar/fluency/structure. I don’t personally demand 100% accuracy on Internet forums - typos and confused words are common place, given the haste of typing and lack of corrective editing a poster might indulge in.
That said, in Joe’s case he has ambitions to be taken seriously as a writer - he was one of the nominees for the recent ’Best of the football website awards’ in the columnist category. Even at the head of this piece, he is labelled as a columnist.
As such, I think it is reasonable to demand a minimum standard... and for me, like Simon, Joe’s article is not an easy read.
So... sorry Joe Jennings... I don’t wish to disparage or discourage you in your ambitions, but regardless of whether I agree with your point of view or not, IMO this is a poorly written article.
On the one hand I agree with you it is a cheap shot if someone’s post is criticised only on its spelling/grammar/fluency/structure. I don’t personally demand 100% accuracy on Internet forums - typos and confused words are common place, given the haste of typing and lack of corrective editing a poster might indulge in.
That said, in Joe’s case he has ambitions to be taken seriously as a writer - he was one of the nominees for the recent ’Best of the football website awards’ in the columnist category. Even at the head of this piece, he is labelled as a columnist.
As such, I think it is reasonable to demand a minimum standard... and for me, like Simon, Joe’s article is not an easy read.
So... sorry Joe Jennings... I don’t wish to disparage or discourage you in your ambitions, but regardless of whether I agree with your point of view or not, IMO this is a poorly written article.
Art
Get a life man!
Simon was disparaging about the choice of one word in particular followed by a totally outrageous exclamation about Joe’s english being terrible,thaat is according to him,whoever he is in the literary world!!
Pity you didn’t pick Simon up on the fact that he started his post with an italic and not a capital letter or is that not really important in the scheme of things? No, I don’t think it is either.
I’m not really bothered about Joe’s ambitions as I read his articles.I suspect Joe might not be either as by definition of being ’nominated’ in the usual sense,someone else would have nominated him anyway so it would perhaps be their ambition for Joe wouldn’t it? Or am I being obtuse? (I have used the right word there haven’t I Art - I’m sure you will let me know if I haven’t!).Jeez.
r
Get a life man!
Simon was disparaging about the choice of one word in particular followed by a totally outrageous exclamation about Joe’s english being terrible,thaat is according to him,whoever he is in the literary world!!
Pity you didn’t pick Simon up on the fact that he started his post with an italic and not a capital letter or is that not really important in the scheme of things? No, I don’t think it is either.
I’m not really bothered about Joe’s ambitions as I read his articles.I suspect Joe might not be either as by definition of being ’nominated’ in the usual sense,someone else would have nominated him anyway so it would perhaps be their ambition for Joe wouldn’t it? Or am I being obtuse? (I have used the right word there haven’t I Art - I’m sure you will let me know if I haven’t!).Jeez.
r
Art
You are a journalist? This is not the bloody Pulitzer Prize you know leave the guy alone.
He obviously misspelt halcyon and got halogen on the spell check and pressed the wrong button. Or perhaps he was being creative with the English language and being playful with syntax and structure an Evertonian Chaucer who knows? Please don?t be pedantic as I quite like idea of the eighties being halogen days.
You are a journalist? This is not the bloody Pulitzer Prize you know leave the guy alone.
He obviously misspelt halcyon and got halogen on the spell check and pressed the wrong button. Or perhaps he was being creative with the English language and being playful with syntax and structure an Evertonian Chaucer who knows? Please don?t be pedantic as I quite like idea of the eighties being halogen days.
Can’t believe you’re so jealous Art!
Unnecessary as Simon’s comment was, yours is
nasty and a bit sad.
Take it you’ve not been nominated for very much other than a...
Unnecessary as Simon’s comment was, yours is
nasty and a bit sad.
Take it you’ve not been nominated for very much other than a...
Art: your position on this grammar issue is now untenable... or is that unattainable?!
Give Joe a break though. We know what he means and I’m sure that given his age, lack of grey hairs and a spare tyre that many posters have, he has not got the level of experience just yet to produce perfect grammar every time.
Anyway, getting back to the point of his article, I would like to add that I agree with his ’turning points theory and I can add that I think the biggest sea change in Moyes’ outlook came after the awful 2003/4 season.
Faced with jacked off players, Rooney about to leave, a miniscule squad, Kenwright & Gregg playing silly buggers in the Boardroom and no money to spend he had to have a re-think. He realised he needed to calm down a bit ( remember the Blomqvist substitution or fighting with one of his Preston players in an Austrian nightclub? Allegedly! ) The team went to Texas pre-season, the mood had changed, they all bonded and the incredible 4th place season followed.
We always go to the States pre-season now. Wonder why? Moyes is learning and getting better all the time.
Give Joe a break though. We know what he means and I’m sure that given his age, lack of grey hairs and a spare tyre that many posters have, he has not got the level of experience just yet to produce perfect grammar every time.
Anyway, getting back to the point of his article, I would like to add that I agree with his ’turning points theory and I can add that I think the biggest sea change in Moyes’ outlook came after the awful 2003/4 season.
Faced with jacked off players, Rooney about to leave, a miniscule squad, Kenwright & Gregg playing silly buggers in the Boardroom and no money to spend he had to have a re-think. He realised he needed to calm down a bit ( remember the Blomqvist substitution or fighting with one of his Preston players in an Austrian nightclub? Allegedly! ) The team went to Texas pre-season, the mood had changed, they all bonded and the incredible 4th place season followed.
We always go to the States pre-season now. Wonder why? Moyes is learning and getting better all the time.
Martin... as I said, not arsed about spelling/grammar/fluency/structure in general on an Internet forum for reasons I fully explained. As you say, not important in the general scheme of things.
I actually took issue with you and - heaven forbid! - I expressed a contrary opinion to your own. My opinion - with supporting reasons - being that Joe has not written a ’very good article’ as you describe it.
Ed... it wasn’t me who highlighted the halogen/halcyon confusion. Again, I clearly gave my opinion that such typos are of little importance in general postings on the net. I too enjoyed the imagery of the 80s being halogen rather than halcyon days. Such play on words can be fun. Perhaps you should take your own advice and not be so pedantic and assuming as you clearly are trying to be...
Chad... nothing to be jealous of, nor am I so insecure and unsure of myself or so vain that I need to be nominated for anything or win some imaginary popularity contest on an Internet forum.
I actually took issue with you and - heaven forbid! - I expressed a contrary opinion to your own. My opinion - with supporting reasons - being that Joe has not written a ’very good article’ as you describe it.
Ed... it wasn’t me who highlighted the halogen/halcyon confusion. Again, I clearly gave my opinion that such typos are of little importance in general postings on the net. I too enjoyed the imagery of the 80s being halogen rather than halcyon days. Such play on words can be fun. Perhaps you should take your own advice and not be so pedantic and assuming as you clearly are trying to be...
Chad... nothing to be jealous of, nor am I so insecure and unsure of myself or so vain that I need to be nominated for anything or win some imaginary popularity contest on an Internet forum.
If BK is such a good chairman why hasn't he sorted out his contract yet and put a large number of Evertonians' minds at rest.
If He?s such a good chairman why does he feel the need to constantly deceive the fans.
If He?s such a good chairman why doesnt he dilute some of his shareholding to get investment into the club.
I deplore people who give him credit for Moyes?s success which he has achieved despite the board not because of them.
Moyes's average net spending is £4 million a year since he took over a very poor squad.
Can you name any other Premier League manager (apart from Wenger) that even comes close.
If He?s such a good chairman why does he feel the need to constantly deceive the fans.
If He?s such a good chairman why doesnt he dilute some of his shareholding to get investment into the club.
I deplore people who give him credit for Moyes?s success which he has achieved despite the board not because of them.
Moyes's average net spending is £4 million a year since he took over a very poor squad.
Can you name any other Premier League manager (apart from Wenger) that even comes close.
Simon has a point... (and I should point out Lyndon posted this, I did not give it my editorial once-over)
"position of David Moyes would have became unattainable." ? untenable, perhaps. Unattainable? He’s there already!!!
"restored fortitude to a titled fan base." ... No... I have no idea what that means. Tired, perhaps?
"Since Moyes has took over the reigns" ? common scouse for "taken".
"scales the peek of success gracefully..." ? I’m not looking any more!
"position of David Moyes would have became unattainable." ? untenable, perhaps. Unattainable? He’s there already!!!
"restored fortitude to a titled fan base." ... No... I have no idea what that means. Tired, perhaps?
"Since Moyes has took over the reigns" ? common scouse for "taken".
"scales the peek of success gracefully..." ? I’m not looking any more!
Jay,
No way am I BK?s biggest fan but to listen to some of the comments that get posted on here you?d be forgiven for thinking David harbours serious grudges against BK and his running of the club but won?t voice them because he fears being sacked.
What utter rubbish.
David has many fine qualities and one of those I admire the most is the fact he speaks his mind honestly and eloquently. If life under BK is so intolerable why doesn?t David walk away? He?d have nothing to lose and his reputation in the game would remain intact.
But then again maybe David doesn?t find working with BK as bleak and hopeless as some fans would like us to believe. After all, when he recently presented BK with the second of his five-year plans for the club I?m guessing it was because the first five-year plan had come to fruition and consequently David feels the second plan can be realised too. Here. At Everton. Under BK.
Sure, there are unsettling vibes about his new contract but isn?t that part and parcel of any round of negotiations in modern day football? Or does everything at Everton these days have to have a sinister undertone just to satisfy the doom-merchants?
Yes, David has hinted he?d like more investment for players but I?d more concerned if he wasn?t making such noises. It?s what managers do. Each and every one of them.
You say you deplore anyone who tries to credit BK with the success David has brought to the club. Fine. It?s your right and your opinion. But I?d ask you one thing ? please show me one quote from David regarding his displeasure at having to work under BK that comes within even the faintest whiff of the vitriol heaped upon BK on this site.
Actually, don?t. Because you won?t find one.
No way am I BK?s biggest fan but to listen to some of the comments that get posted on here you?d be forgiven for thinking David harbours serious grudges against BK and his running of the club but won?t voice them because he fears being sacked.
What utter rubbish.
David has many fine qualities and one of those I admire the most is the fact he speaks his mind honestly and eloquently. If life under BK is so intolerable why doesn?t David walk away? He?d have nothing to lose and his reputation in the game would remain intact.
But then again maybe David doesn?t find working with BK as bleak and hopeless as some fans would like us to believe. After all, when he recently presented BK with the second of his five-year plans for the club I?m guessing it was because the first five-year plan had come to fruition and consequently David feels the second plan can be realised too. Here. At Everton. Under BK.
Sure, there are unsettling vibes about his new contract but isn?t that part and parcel of any round of negotiations in modern day football? Or does everything at Everton these days have to have a sinister undertone just to satisfy the doom-merchants?
Yes, David has hinted he?d like more investment for players but I?d more concerned if he wasn?t making such noises. It?s what managers do. Each and every one of them.
You say you deplore anyone who tries to credit BK with the success David has brought to the club. Fine. It?s your right and your opinion. But I?d ask you one thing ? please show me one quote from David regarding his displeasure at having to work under BK that comes within even the faintest whiff of the vitriol heaped upon BK on this site.
Actually, don?t. Because you won?t find one.
If David Moyes learns from his mistakes so quickly, why on gods good earth did he still persist playing Neville in midfield until the end of the season....when every man, woman and child could see how shíte he was!
Now, I agree with the sentiment that Moyes is the man for us... but I certainly disagree with the assertion that some kind of epiphany happened mid-season in terms of his team selection and tactics...
Now, I agree with the sentiment that Moyes is the man for us... but I certainly disagree with the assertion that some kind of epiphany happened mid-season in terms of his team selection and tactics...
I know in general we’re not suppose to criticise articles, but this must be one of the worst I’ve ever read.
Firstly, it just seems to be a rehash of old opinion and cliches.
Secondly, it’s very difficult to read. Some of that is due to incorrect words being used, and I suspect some of it is also down to the writer trying to be clever with words but failing to realise that these expressions used do not make any sense! It almost looks like there’s been a bit of Microsoft Word thesaurus abuse going on in an attempt to sound clever.
I know this criticism will get people’s backs up but I’m not saying I could do better or that I don’t make grammatical errors myself. I’m not the one writing articles for public consumption though.
Firstly, it just seems to be a rehash of old opinion and cliches.
Secondly, it’s very difficult to read. Some of that is due to incorrect words being used, and I suspect some of it is also down to the writer trying to be clever with words but failing to realise that these expressions used do not make any sense! It almost looks like there’s been a bit of Microsoft Word thesaurus abuse going on in an attempt to sound clever.
I know this criticism will get people’s backs up but I’m not saying I could do better or that I don’t make grammatical errors myself. I’m not the one writing articles for public consumption though.
Tony
the reason DM will not criticise the board is quite simple he has too much class for that.
He wouldnt even criticise atrocious refereeing decisions instead deciding to send a video to Keith Hackett.
He never criticises or demeans other clubs or managers.
It was widely rumoured and I stress rumoured that Moyes was close to resigning last summer until we bought Yakubu and "pretended" to buy Fernandes.
I have advocating being patient and waiting to see what happens this summer however even you must admit there’s something strange about NOT signing his contract yet and not getting a number 2 sorted out especially as Bill "talks to him every day".
the reason DM will not criticise the board is quite simple he has too much class for that.
He wouldnt even criticise atrocious refereeing decisions instead deciding to send a video to Keith Hackett.
He never criticises or demeans other clubs or managers.
It was widely rumoured and I stress rumoured that Moyes was close to resigning last summer until we bought Yakubu and "pretended" to buy Fernandes.
I have advocating being patient and waiting to see what happens this summer however even you must admit there’s something strange about NOT signing his contract yet and not getting a number 2 sorted out especially as Bill "talks to him every day".
Jay, I recognize all the qualities you credit David with but I doubt David doesn’t criticize the board publicly because he has too much class to do it.
I believe he doesn’t sound off in public because he doesn’t feel the need. And that’s not a fact it’s just my opinion.
An opinion based in no small part on the many positive things David has put on record about the support he receives from the board.
Like I said I’d be astonished (and disappointed) if he didn’t expect more from the board because that’s what top mangers do: it’s an integral part of the drive they have to makes themselves succesful.
As for the rumours about the BK/DM stand-off last summer who really cares? Because if anyone thinks those kind of door-slamming, table-thumping, I’m-not-backing-down confrontations between managers and boards don’t happen all the time at clubs everywhere then I’m afraid BK is not the one who lives on Fantasy Island.
And anyway what does it matter? Because all I know and care about is the money was found, Yakubu was signed and we now have a striker who looks capable of scoring goals for fun. Maybe it’s time we went back to being fans and stop pretending we’re Columbo.
As for David’s contract, of course we all wish it had been signed but I’d not lose too much sleep over it. After all I very much doubt the author of the Five Year Plan Part Two sees his future anywhere else but at Everton.
I believe he doesn’t sound off in public because he doesn’t feel the need. And that’s not a fact it’s just my opinion.
An opinion based in no small part on the many positive things David has put on record about the support he receives from the board.
Like I said I’d be astonished (and disappointed) if he didn’t expect more from the board because that’s what top mangers do: it’s an integral part of the drive they have to makes themselves succesful.
As for the rumours about the BK/DM stand-off last summer who really cares? Because if anyone thinks those kind of door-slamming, table-thumping, I’m-not-backing-down confrontations between managers and boards don’t happen all the time at clubs everywhere then I’m afraid BK is not the one who lives on Fantasy Island.
And anyway what does it matter? Because all I know and care about is the money was found, Yakubu was signed and we now have a striker who looks capable of scoring goals for fun. Maybe it’s time we went back to being fans and stop pretending we’re Columbo.
As for David’s contract, of course we all wish it had been signed but I’d not lose too much sleep over it. After all I very much doubt the author of the Five Year Plan Part Two sees his future anywhere else but at Everton.
I am starting to get grave thoughts about our future. There is something extremely strange about the non signing of the contract.
Perhaps I am being cynical but I reckon that BK has asked Moyes to hang fire on the signings until the stadium is sorted.
Whether Moyes agrees with this is another matter. I suspect he doesn’t.
He wants/needs money to take us forward and, as usual, BK is stalling.
Perhaps I am being cynical but I reckon that BK has asked Moyes to hang fire on the signings until the stadium is sorted.
Whether Moyes agrees with this is another matter. I suspect he doesn’t.
He wants/needs money to take us forward and, as usual, BK is stalling.
Art
You?re welcome to offer an opinion different to my own anytime you like, I can take it. Do everyone except Simon Williams and Michael Kenrick a favour,however, and make sure that it is something that actually matters,like for instance the fact that the club is now a step nearer to obscurity after Monday evenings events.
Surely, the subject of the move to Kirby, or, the as yet non-signing of Moyes? contract would be far more worthy of your time spent posting on this site wouldn?t it? I know that these particular topics have been discussed to death already, but you get the idea don?t you?
Why, may I ask, do you seem to be a tad pre-occupied with Joe?s nomination and why is he vain because (as I pointed out in my last post), someone else nominated him and why do you presume to know that Joe has a ?need to be nominated?? Or perhaps you did not mean to write in such terms. See how easy it is. Well that?s Joe?s crime!
Michael
?Simon has a point... (and I should point out Lyndon posted this, I did not give it my editorial once-over).?
What point is that then? I believe the nearest thing that Simon made to a point was to be rude and offensive, instead of making a rather good analogy of the word as I did and as Ed also made reference to.
I reckon Karl Masters put the whole thing in perspective.
? We know what he means and I?m sure that given his age, lack of grey hairs and a spare tyre that many posters have, he has not got the level of experience just yet to produce perfect grammar every time."
Do we actually want to encourage contributors or make them think twice out of fear of being ridiculed by the self-appointed ?Literary Police ? Anal Division? you clearly support by feeling the need to list those extracts you have taken such exception to, and also shift the blame to Lyndon to suggest that it is some kind of horrendous aberration on his part to have overlooked these examples. I?m surprised at you, I must say, to give credence and validity to the mindless and the pompous by your response. On reflection, couldn?t we all have just left it?
I expect that Joe may well be an ex-contributor now and who could blame him.
You?re welcome to offer an opinion different to my own anytime you like, I can take it. Do everyone except Simon Williams and Michael Kenrick a favour,however, and make sure that it is something that actually matters,like for instance the fact that the club is now a step nearer to obscurity after Monday evenings events.
Surely, the subject of the move to Kirby, or, the as yet non-signing of Moyes? contract would be far more worthy of your time spent posting on this site wouldn?t it? I know that these particular topics have been discussed to death already, but you get the idea don?t you?
Why, may I ask, do you seem to be a tad pre-occupied with Joe?s nomination and why is he vain because (as I pointed out in my last post), someone else nominated him and why do you presume to know that Joe has a ?need to be nominated?? Or perhaps you did not mean to write in such terms. See how easy it is. Well that?s Joe?s crime!
Michael
?Simon has a point... (and I should point out Lyndon posted this, I did not give it my editorial once-over).?
What point is that then? I believe the nearest thing that Simon made to a point was to be rude and offensive, instead of making a rather good analogy of the word as I did and as Ed also made reference to.
I reckon Karl Masters put the whole thing in perspective.
? We know what he means and I?m sure that given his age, lack of grey hairs and a spare tyre that many posters have, he has not got the level of experience just yet to produce perfect grammar every time."
Do we actually want to encourage contributors or make them think twice out of fear of being ridiculed by the self-appointed ?Literary Police ? Anal Division? you clearly support by feeling the need to list those extracts you have taken such exception to, and also shift the blame to Lyndon to suggest that it is some kind of horrendous aberration on his part to have overlooked these examples. I?m surprised at you, I must say, to give credence and validity to the mindless and the pompous by your response. On reflection, couldn?t we all have just left it?
I expect that Joe may well be an ex-contributor now and who could blame him.
John
If BK is stalling on the money why did Cardiff tell the world that three identical bids had been received for Aaron Ramsey; Arsenal’s, United’s and ours?
Of course, if you’re one of the more fervered conspiracy theorists on here you’ll tell me that we never actually put a bid in and that Cardiff only agreed to say we did in return for free Blood Brothers tickets and to boost season ticket sales among our more gullible fans.
Furthermore, the fact we are trying to sign the same players as United and Arsenal is surely an encouraging indicator of the targets the manager and the board have set themselves.
And if we are competing with those clubs for players then I’d imagine we might be in for a long summer of tricky negotiations.
Personally, I dont find anything sinister in that: it’s certainly a more preferable scenario than the one in which we sign any old yard dog just for the sake of appeasing panicking supporters.
If BK is stalling on the money why did Cardiff tell the world that three identical bids had been received for Aaron Ramsey; Arsenal’s, United’s and ours?
Of course, if you’re one of the more fervered conspiracy theorists on here you’ll tell me that we never actually put a bid in and that Cardiff only agreed to say we did in return for free Blood Brothers tickets and to boost season ticket sales among our more gullible fans.
Furthermore, the fact we are trying to sign the same players as United and Arsenal is surely an encouraging indicator of the targets the manager and the board have set themselves.
And if we are competing with those clubs for players then I’d imagine we might be in for a long summer of tricky negotiations.
Personally, I dont find anything sinister in that: it’s certainly a more preferable scenario than the one in which we sign any old yard dog just for the sake of appeasing panicking supporters.
So only people who have an english o level can write an article about the club they love?Apparently Toffeeweb now has the moral high ground on everything from politics to grammar!
Martin, thanks for your appreciation of the editor’s work on here, which normally corrects and removes the silly mistakes Joe made in this instance, and therefore avoids ridiculous discussions like this.
For me, it’s a question of quality. You’re barking up entirely the wrong tree, and I noticed a while ago that Joe is not content to see his name in lights just here and has been posting his articles elsewhere for some time.
For me, it’s a question of quality. You’re barking up entirely the wrong tree, and I noticed a while ago that Joe is not content to see his name in lights just here and has been posting his articles elsewhere for some time.
Michael
No worries.
I accept an editors ’lot’ as you describe it,and I can accept your disappointment that Lyndon failed to do this.
What I’m disappointed in with you of all people,is that you should add to the ridicule as I believe you did instead of letting it go.
I don’t know Joe Jennings personally and my objections are not based on the individual anyway,it’s about unnecessary attacks on anyone because of their writing style or misuse of words.Lifes too short to be honest!
Not sure what you mean by myself ’barking up the wrong tree’,and I wouldn’t know or care about Joe’s habits, whereabouts and movements as I already mentioned I don’t know him.I do get the impression though that there may be a history here and that there is a personal agenda or grudge evident.
Just curious,bu is this perhaps correct?
No worries.
I accept an editors ’lot’ as you describe it,and I can accept your disappointment that Lyndon failed to do this.
What I’m disappointed in with you of all people,is that you should add to the ridicule as I believe you did instead of letting it go.
I don’t know Joe Jennings personally and my objections are not based on the individual anyway,it’s about unnecessary attacks on anyone because of their writing style or misuse of words.Lifes too short to be honest!
Not sure what you mean by myself ’barking up the wrong tree’,and I wouldn’t know or care about Joe’s habits, whereabouts and movements as I already mentioned I don’t know him.I do get the impression though that there may be a history here and that there is a personal agenda or grudge evident.
Just curious,bu is this perhaps correct?
Martin Kulkarni, for someone who demands others post on "something that actually matters?, I find it a tad comical that you continue posting on this thread on what I have to assume, given your above statement, you consider a "trivial" subject.
Thanks for your advice, but if it’s all the same to you, I’ll post what I like, when I like, rather than confine myself to only what pleases you.
As for the stadium debate, do a quick search on TW. I’ve had more than a word to say on that. Why that is alluded to here I have no idea. But just to respond to your comment - "... the fact that the club is now a step nearer to obscurity after Monday evening?s events..."
1) your statement constitutes opinion, not fact
2) I believe EFC and its supporters are more resilient than you opinion implies.
Toddles.
Thanks for your advice, but if it’s all the same to you, I’ll post what I like, when I like, rather than confine myself to only what pleases you.
As for the stadium debate, do a quick search on TW. I’ve had more than a word to say on that. Why that is alluded to here I have no idea. But just to respond to your comment - "... the fact that the club is now a step nearer to obscurity after Monday evening?s events..."
1) your statement constitutes opinion, not fact
2) I believe EFC and its supporters are more resilient than you opinion implies.
Toddles.
Art
"Thanks for your advice, but if it?s all the same to you, I?ll post what I like, when I like"
Yes I’m sure you wlll,but again,you side step the point .
Can;t you do it without personally attacking people for their perceived lack of literary prowess,thats what I don’t consider to be trivial because its about reasonable behaviour, or do you always have to act ’superior’ to everone else and just can’t help yourself!
You talk pompously about "I don?t personally demand 100% accuracy on Internet forums"Well bully for you.Perhaps this internet forum should demand 100% decent behaviour and respect for other contributors like Joe from the likes of you.Me? Your sort are water off a ducks back to me
I stand corrected re. my example being opinon not fact.Lets’ hope you are ultimatley right and it never becomes fact eh.!
By the way is Toddles a nickname of yours or did you mean to say Toodles?
"Thanks for your advice, but if it?s all the same to you, I?ll post what I like, when I like"
Yes I’m sure you wlll,but again,you side step the point .
Can;t you do it without personally attacking people for their perceived lack of literary prowess,thats what I don’t consider to be trivial because its about reasonable behaviour, or do you always have to act ’superior’ to everone else and just can’t help yourself!
You talk pompously about "I don?t personally demand 100% accuracy on Internet forums"Well bully for you.Perhaps this internet forum should demand 100% decent behaviour and respect for other contributors like Joe from the likes of you.Me? Your sort are water off a ducks back to me
I stand corrected re. my example being opinon not fact.Lets’ hope you are ultimatley right and it never becomes fact eh.!
By the way is Toddles a nickname of yours or did you mean to say Toodles?
Martin Kulkarni , read my original post again. Please highlight any where that I "personally attack people for their perceived lack of literary prowess".
Good spot on the ’Toddles’. Comical that once again you are more hung up on the very thing you are falsely accussing me of...
TOODLES!
Good spot on the ’Toddles’. Comical that once again you are more hung up on the very thing you are falsely accussing me of...
TOODLES!
Art Greeth
Erm....let?s see
"As such, I think it is reasonable to demand a minimum standard... and for me, like Simon, Joe?s article is not an easy read.
and
"IMO this is a poorly written article"
Might not be as outright offensive as the mindless one?s contirbution.
Tell you what though, I will pehaps consider again your point of view and clarify what I could have said,
"Can?t you do it without supporting those who personally attack people for their perceived lack of literary prowess"
There now, does that make you better and less unreasonable?
By the way, here?s another word..... IRONY!!!
Erm....let?s see
"As such, I think it is reasonable to demand a minimum standard... and for me, like Simon, Joe?s article is not an easy read.
and
"IMO this is a poorly written article"
Might not be as outright offensive as the mindless one?s contirbution.
Tell you what though, I will pehaps consider again your point of view and clarify what I could have said,
"Can?t you do it without supporting those who personally attack people for their perceived lack of literary prowess"
There now, does that make you better and less unreasonable?
By the way, here?s another word..... IRONY!!!
Martin, the irony of your string of posts in this thread is not lost on me even though it appears totally lost on you.
Even in the (selective) quotes you use, do I highlight individual examples of Joe?s mistakes? No. Ironically, all the people in this thread getting the hump over my post do just that ? either highlighting Joe?s errors or those of other posters. Do I lace my comments with a rationale and with ?IMO?? Yes. Do I conclude with a benign word to Joe Jennings? Yes.
Now let?s contrast that to your observation that ?Perhaps this internet forum should demand 100% decent behaviour and respect for other contributors like Joe from the likes of you. Me? Your sort are water off a ducks back to me.?
You couldn?t make this up. You demand decent behaviour and respect from others, but don?t feel any way obliged to offer the same courtesy to others.
In your first post, you tell Simon Williams to ?behave himself?.
In your second post, your first words to me were ?get a life!?
In your next post to me, you presume to tell me what I can and can?t post? and in the next line have the gall to call me ?pompous?.
Next, you tell me ?it?s about reasonable behaviour, or do you always have to act ?superior? to everyone else and just can?t help yourself!?
In your latest post you refer to ?the mindless one?s contribution?. (Me? Michael?).
Evidently, the moral high ground you occupy is far too heady and obtuse for mere mortals such as myself to comprehend.
Even in the (selective) quotes you use, do I highlight individual examples of Joe?s mistakes? No. Ironically, all the people in this thread getting the hump over my post do just that ? either highlighting Joe?s errors or those of other posters. Do I lace my comments with a rationale and with ?IMO?? Yes. Do I conclude with a benign word to Joe Jennings? Yes.
Now let?s contrast that to your observation that ?Perhaps this internet forum should demand 100% decent behaviour and respect for other contributors like Joe from the likes of you. Me? Your sort are water off a ducks back to me.?
You couldn?t make this up. You demand decent behaviour and respect from others, but don?t feel any way obliged to offer the same courtesy to others.
In your first post, you tell Simon Williams to ?behave himself?.
In your second post, your first words to me were ?get a life!?
In your next post to me, you presume to tell me what I can and can?t post? and in the next line have the gall to call me ?pompous?.
Next, you tell me ?it?s about reasonable behaviour, or do you always have to act ?superior? to everyone else and just can?t help yourself!?
In your latest post you refer to ?the mindless one?s contribution?. (Me? Michael?).
Evidently, the moral high ground you occupy is far too heady and obtuse for mere mortals such as myself to comprehend.
Okay lets cut to it and then I at least will leave it here (I promise Editor!). You can bang on as much as you like.
Your original post to Joe Jennings was unnecessary, unwelcomed, unfriendly, patronising, and pompous (as others besides myself clearly thought).
The rest of your posts clearly lack an acknowledgement of this from you because I guess your ego can?t accept it.
You can pontificate and posture all you like, but that is it in a nutshell.
Your original post to Joe Jennings was unnecessary, unwelcomed, unfriendly, patronising, and pompous (as others besides myself clearly thought).
The rest of your posts clearly lack an acknowledgement of this from you because I guess your ego can?t accept it.
You can pontificate and posture all you like, but that is it in a nutshell.
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1 Posted 10/06/2008 at 08:49:50
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Evertonians are too quick to use the phrase ’hoofball’ to be critical of what Moyes has built. Everton like most teams in the league play expansive fluid football when confidence is high. The difference between us and most other teams in the league is that if we are not quite in the groove we can still grind out results by playing a less expansive game. I would rather this than have the Man City approach of boom and bust.
I think the contract situation will all depend on whether we can attract players of the right calibre. It is one thing to talk of a transfer budget of x million but Moyes will be waiting to see how many of his transfer targets this nets him.