Patterson loan rumour swiftly quashed

Only at Everton. If true, simply staggering from whoever bought him. Kenwright Out

This is symptomatic of the club’s transfer dealings. Paid over the odds for someone who is evidently just not good enough. Lampard obviously thinks he is not good enough even to cover for Seamus. It was worrying when Gerrard wasn’t interested in bringing him to Villa.

It really is all defying fucking belief now. Who is signing off on all these ludicrous acquisitions and appointments - as if we don't know.

I went to bed last night with a bit of alcohol-assisted optimism as per my post on the "27" thread.

This morning, I am convinced Everton are heading downwards into the doldrums for a few years. Not a good look with the new stadium at Bramley-Moore Dock on the horizon. I'm sure we will recover to bounce back but am not convinced it will be while I still have my marbles.

Some good news, please!

Buying for the future when everyone could see the team was in a relegation battle, not to mention the precarious position the club was in regarding FFP.

Kim, if you are on TW looking for good news, I'm afraid you have already lost your marbles.

The Mirror are saying we after Max Aarons from Norwich too. This could have legs.

Everton supposedly looking to get rid of Dele Alli... Just wow.

Obviously the Patterson & Mykolenko signings were orchestrated by Benitez to deflect potential criticism from him in the wake of his decision to get rid of Digne.

Red Rafa gone but still hurting us.

It's a rumour that was started by The Sun, so I think we know where we can file that.

Ste, I think this is more than a rumour. The lad isn't up to it. He may be one day but, even though Colman was finished 3 years ago, he's not even good enough to be considered back-up. Staggering ineptitude.

Si, I'm with you on the ineptitude, it beggars belief. Just not sure if there's any truth to the rumour.

You do have to wonder what the hell is going on at our football club.

The owner allowed Benitez to sell Digne who I think was up towards the best of our players with assists. I thought the sale was to try and offset our FFP position, but we used that money to buy Patterson and Mykolenko, but Benitez didn't select either before being sacked so I think we can rule out these being Benitez signings.

Going back to when Carlo Ancelotti was in charge, he bought Allan and James but openly admitted that he had never seen Doucoure or Godfrey and this was confirmed by both players that it wasn't Ancelotti who signed them.

So were these brands purchases or did are owner have a hand in these and the signings of Mykolenko and Patterson? We certainly know it was Moshiri who sanctioned the El Ghazi loan fiasco.

Seems like Moshiri will want an input into some player signings and I don't see that stopping any time soon. Why he introduced the DOF position and then not let the manager and DOF do the jobs he hired them for I don't know. But he seems to listen to agents more than he does his DOF or manager.

So Ancelotti only brought in James on a free and signed Allan, and Benitez spent £1.75M on Gray and Townsend and sold Digne. Now Lampard is having to shop in the loan deal signings, so we should be used to Moshiri interfering with transfers that are killing this club.

Yes, Kenwright needs to resign immediately but let's be under no illusion who the biggest culprit is here and that is definitely Moshiri.

Yes, you can't argue he and his boss have pumped in eye-watering amounts of money, but sadly he has employed (apart from Ancelotti and Allardyce and the man he should never have employed) managers who were far too inexperienced to handle a huge budget and a club as big as Everton.

It’s being reported that the club is looking to sell Alli. It goes on and on and on.

Some scurrilous rumours about Dele Alli being offloaded before any fees are activated. Now our long-awaited £16M right-back being loaned out and we've got little money to replace him, and Seamus shouldn't be starting matches now.

We only signed them 6 months ago, so it's very hard to believe this.

If he doesn't work out for Frank how about the ex needs boss in?

Sunderland are looking at Simms but never fear mighty Rondon is here FFS you couldn’t make this shit up 😡

Lampard has now put in a transfer request. He wants experience with a professional football club.

Everton looking to sell All! by the looks of things.

Bit of a strange one this, being a fellow Scot, I was quite pleased when we signed him, although he wasn't the finished article, he was highly thought of in Scotland, and with Seamus not being able to play week in week out any longer.

I must add also that Seamus was a very hard act to follow, as a youngster stepping up to Premier League.

Unfortunately the lad sustained an injury not long after joining us, sustained in a Scotland match, so we have seen very little from him, though I have heard that the defensive aspect of his game is not up to Premier League standard yet.

It will leave us exposed if he does go out on loan, which seems a bit pointless to me, if we have to buy someone in.

Brian 11, a lot of assumptions about Moshiri there Brian.

He employs a DoF to source players that's where the blame should lie, but who knows, none of us really knows how the internal decisions are made.

The problem for us is that we are feeding on scraps that Top 6 don't want, second-best players in other words.

The alternative is to take a chance on up-and-coming young players, problem is that's seen as too much of a risk!

Why do fans keep falling for all this rumour crap. Unbelievable.

I don't know about anyone else but I have no optimism for the coming season. Expecting another battering tomorrow and same for Friday and the start of the season. Nothing has changed from last season; same players except Richarlison gone and Tarkowski in.

I'm usually upbeat getting to the start of the season but, to be honest, I've all but given up. Not been to Goodison since the start of the pandemic last March against Man Utd.

Not interested in going (my lad is away in London, I use to go with him). I watched a few on TV and will do this season – nothing will change with the idiots and Kenwright still there. 🤷

The boy is clearly not ready for this level and truth is he may never be. A loan is the right decision for both the player and the club but paying so much money for him was criminal. I think we overpaid for Mykolenko too, I like him but I don't rate him as a Premier League starting 11 yet.

As for Dele Alli, I just can't understand his fast decline. Maybe he needs a run of games to find his feet, his composure and most important his self-esteem. On the other hand, maybe he is just a lazy bastard who doesn't give a fuck!

Even Barkley seems a better option than him but I can't forget his transfer fiasco some years ago, we lost at least £15M with his stance and I don't want him back.

I think anyone can see we are in serious trouble.

We bought Patterson for £11M who played very few first team games for Rangers.

Liverpool signed young Ramsey from Aberdeen, who is their regular right-back, for £5M — says everything.

Raymond @19,

I think you're right. I have no evidence whatsoever that Moshiri did interfere in transfer dealings. But Ancelotti openly admitted that he didn't sign Godfrey or Doucoure. Now this may well have been our DoF Marcel Brands who signed both these players, but the El Ghazi loan deal was down to Moshiri.

Benitez signed Mykolenko and Patterson but never played either so it makes you wonder who did sign them and I'm not sure if Brands was still DoF when they were signed but he was on his way out if he hadn't already gone. So strange they would sanction these 2 if they were his recommendations.

Moshiri is now on his 3rd DoF and 6th full-time manager, hardly the basis to build a stable club.

I don't think Benitez had a part in the sale, and definitely not a part in the acquisitions of the two young full backs, as the decision that he should be sacked would likely have already been made or considered.

As for Digne, I don't think the club would have allowed him to go unless these players were coming in… but who knows for sure?

My view of Digne was that he'd been found out during the second half of his first season and I remember Traore of Wolves tearing the back out of him. His runs down the wing to feed Calvert-Lewin became less effective, and if it's true that he acted as a self-appointed trade union rep, then I could see why he was shifted.

As it's turned out, Mykolenko looks a decent, young full-back and is getting well adjusted to the Premier League. I thought Nathan Patterson looked good going forward in the half a match he played but wasn't he injured soon after which kept him out for ages?

Patterson is considered to be a top full-back in Scotland, and their league is a lot slower than ours. So I could see he'd need time to adjust.

As for him being loaned out... isn't this a rumour?

A loan deal worked for Coleman but very few other Everton players (Ossie being another one) have gone and returned improved. This probably means Patterson will be sold, or released, for peanuts in a few years.

Everton are a club that could well be out of business within 10 years.

The club really is run so poorly that I genuinely believe it's only heading in one direction now.

After last season, this summer should have seen some serious questions asked, some serious business decisions made and more deadwood out of the club that has been hanging about like a moth in a lampshade.

Within this last 12 months, we've lost Digne, James, Sigurdsson and Richarlison, arguably 4 of our most creative players, and not one of them has been replaced.

Now we want to loan the right-back we signed to replace the one that has been past his sell by date since 2019.

(And no, we can't just shoehorn square pegs into round holes and hope for the best by playing Godfrey or Holgate.)

Joke of a club.

All these rumours may or may not have legs, but my hope is that we can regroup under the new DoF and coaching team, and slowly build back. That may well mean offloading some recent signings – and also some of our most valuable players – but the aim should be to stay in the Premier League for the next few seasons and then kick on.

I'll be happy for us to finish 15th or 16th again this season and next season as long as we have some stability while we rebuild this terrible squad. I'd like to think that, by the time we move to the new stadium at Bramley-Moore Dock, we will have a squad with 90% of the current players gone.

Ready to play right-back? Don't think so.

But he could do a Coleman-esque apprentice job at right-midfield surely? We've so few options available to Lampard, it seems mad to get rid of one.

Neil Warnock made some good comments the other day. He said something along the lines of:

“As a young manager Frank should be saying things like ‘i am determined to win, and will do it with any players I am given'.

I don't see any logic in running Patterson out and keeping Coleman. I don't see any logic in running out Branthwaite and keeping Keane and Holgate. I don't see any logic in giving Rondon minutes over Simms or Dobbin. I don't see any point in starting Davies over Gbamin or Warrington or even Onyango.

Too easy to say “they're not ready” because, if they aren't ready to replace that level of player, then they will likely never be ready.

Whilst I don't blame him in any way, shape or form, I'm seriously starting to think Frank is the latest mistake in a very long line of them. Sorry, but got to say it.

The full-back acquisitions in January were bizarre. Overpaid certainly by 25%(+).

That said, Mykolenko (despite being written off by many) looks a good acquisition and can be our left-back for 5 to 10 years.

Patterson clearly has talent. He also could occupy his position for 5 to 10 years.

If he isn't quite ready now, I'd rather see him on loan to develop than have his confidence shattered in the Premier League.

There are cheap right-backs available (eg, Centonze of Metz) who could come in as a stop-gap. Or Maitland-Niles who could play a few positions.

We might have to play a long game with some of these players if we're to reap the rewards.

Jim @25 and Robert @31, that sort of calm reason will get us nowhere. Give up now, before it's too late.

Jim, 27, you are correct. Our rate of decline is accelerating. I can see us being in League One in 10 years.

I think Moshiri can see it also and his answer is to get out, in spite of what he says about the club not being for sale. That is just a front so as not to appear desperate and keep the price up.

Hearing he's an all-action fast full-back, I have my emotional Everton head on and thought he'd be the next Kyle Walker. Still time, of course, but so far another let-down.

Given Coleman's age, does this mean we are about to start the season with Holgate as a right-back? I don't like the thought of either starting there, to be honest.

Patterson will hopefully be playing today, so we can all see for ourselves whether or not he's ready.

Pat @ 16 - apparently Lampard is open to going out on loan.

Looks like another masterstroke of planning has been pulled off here - deciding late on that Patterson is not adequate before acquiring cover and after shifting out Jonjoe Kenny.

I wonder if Cuco Martina will come back?

Rumours that we're scouting a right-back at Hertha Berlin. Confidence that we can get him for £10M or so.

It's just a rumour. But then maybe a year of consistent first team football will do him good anyway.

There were rumours that Mykolenko was only a League One standard left-back and, after a shaky start, he turned out decent!

“Ha ha ha, silly Everton – basket case club wasting money again!”

Face it, we are on the floor at the moment, and there are lots of people, including the media, who will kick us while we're down; and would absolutely love to see a big name relegated. Don't believe everything you read.

I don't get how we're so crap at recruitment.

I could watch a game and by half-time tell you who was good, bang average and not up to it. I imagine most who have played would be the same.

The next step of judging character and gauging if they fit in the group is another matter but the bare bones of player assessment should not be an issue at a professional football club.

If we've paid millions for a lad who can't play we deserve everything coming our way.

Peter, anything's possible right now...

James, you're right but even if we discount 90% of it, the remaining 10% is real and ugly. We really are in the mire.

Absolutely incredible. Bankruptcy coming soon.

Another masterstroke from Kenwright.

Barry @ 40 - all true, I fully agree.

If someone told me it's deliberate, I couldn't disprove it.

Patterson going doesn't bother me in the slightest. He was dreadful against the might of Boreham Wood and was hooked at half-time. Lampard made a comment that he didn't follow game instructions.

He was awful against Minnesota. He's not as good as Coleman. He's not even as good as Godfrey at right-back. The lad Mills has shown more.

Patterson just joins the list of terrible recruitment.

Odd. Patterson had been targeted for some time, so for him to be so far away from first team readiness despite forking out a rather significant fee for him is crazy.

Can't write him off. Coleman looked out of his depth when he first played, and his loan to Blackpool in the Championship was the making of him.

But Coleman was bought for £60k, this lad for £10M+.

Most worrying is that, as things stand, Coleman will continue as first choice right back. And make no mistake, he is far, far over the hill. His pace has gone.

Coleman was never a world class defender, what made him a great player was his pace and his aggressive running that drove us forward. But now he's lost that, and his defending is worse due to the lack of pace, causing him to make mistake after mistake.

He, at the very most, should be a substitute.

This smacks of two things. Our recruitment strategy over the past several years. Interference at all levels rather than allow the DoF and / or manager deal with those. And the managerial merry go round adding to the issue.

Okay, I cheated and that's 3 things, but they are all linked.

Maybe, just maybe, Frank Lampard has come in, assessed and made his call on what he has available and right now, Patterson isn't ready.

It's a mess, but for once Everton, let the football people make the calls and weed this squad out. The reset as one recent article put it.

Like taking off in stormy weather, there will be turbulence before we rise about the clouds and hit the smooth.

If our recruitment os so terrible, why are we one of only six clubs that have never been relegated from the Premier League?

Maybe our problem isn't poor recruitment but too much recruitment. Constant change of manager is our problem. Each one bringing in his favourite players. Even Lampard did it with Dele Alli. Now apparently he's looking to bin him.

Successful clubs generally do not keep sacking their managers. Everton need stability to give whoever is manager a chance to carry out whatever plan they have without worrying about getting the sack if the going gets tough.

Frank. If we persevered with Martinez for example as one we wouldn't even be in this league but I take your point. No plan or strategy from youth to first team to dof recruitment to manager to er chairman and so on. Let them roll eh (good times)!

Hope Stan Mills and Warrington can cement their places. Asking a lot but there we go.

I notice Dwight Gayle has moved to Stoke on a free. I was keen on him if we had been relegated as he has a good record in the Championship but he could have provided some much-needed squad depth for us this season.

I thought that Mills looked better than Patterson against Arsenal.

Frank # 47, terrible recruitment is why you would even mention relegation despite a net spend beyond most Champions League clubs.

Luck (and the fans) is why we haven't been relegated.

Frank #47

Chelsea don't seem to have done too badly!

Patterson seems way off the pace for the Premier League. Maybe a loan would do him good. If he's then not up to scratch, we'll need to move him on. We cannot continue to carry (and pay) players who can't hack it.

When Frank was first in last season, he was asked about Patterson. He replied, "One for the future."

Assume he still feels that way. Push to shove, Frank can use Godfrey or Holgate at right-back.

Anyway, it's pretty clear the kid needs games. So good, send him out.

There are Everton fans who believe by sending out players with Premier League experience can be easily replaced by players from the Everton Under-21s without Premier League experience.

Has Patterson had enough game time for judgement to be made while I'm trying to think of which wizard wingers have torn him apart so far. This, if true, seems something of a knee jerk reaction unless there is a need to reduce the wage bill even further which may also account for the Alli talk.

As for Gerrard not taking him to Villa, perhaps he thought the right back already there was sufficient or, unlike Everton, he didn't want too many for the same or too few positions.

Brendan #7

Where did you get that from? The rumours were the complete opposite at the time. If he is loaned, there could be some truth in the rumours.

Who actually is involved in transfers at Everton?

Unless Everton sign a replacement for Patterson with a player of more experience, they are wasting their time sending him out on loan. With Everton's financial position, that is unlikely to happen.

The (negative) appraisals of Patterson here make me wonder if I had somehow missed a few Everton games this year. Don't think I did, so, like everyone else we're making judgements based on a few minutes of playing time afforded. Ridiculous.

For what it's worth, I think the lad seems to have a number of great attributes. He has pace and strength. He also has a willingness (and the necessary accompanying ability) to get forward, reminiscent of Coleman in his breakthrough years.

I suspect though that the current odds of him getting playing time are slight, because Lampard's selections to date have not, disappointingly, been those of a manager willing to give youth a chance (not even a Scottish international in this case).

Patterson is unproved so perhaps a loan could do him good.

More worried actually if Dele Alli leaves. He could be the player he was if he gets his head straight. And he was a really good player.

Is he beyond repair??

Jerome #56

How exactly will Patterson being loaned out support any set of rumours?

We are not friggin Chelsea. We do not have the luxury of loaning out any more players. In fact, the Branthwaite loan may come back to haunt us. If he's not quite ready, let him get ready here.

Patterson looks like he has something, same as Mykolenko, who's growing game after game. Forget Holgate filling in or whatever.

Frank 47

That's a great question.

Personally I believe the Walter years and the relegation scares so terrified the club that the Kenwright and Moyes era made recruiting for mid table official policy. Any challenge would be a miracle rather than active pursuit but it would make us safe.

The miracle did arrive with Rom and Martinez but couldn't last and the resultant re-firing of ambition has contributed to the mess we now see.

Managers of all shapes and types have tried to follow Martinez's first season and "challenge" rather than resort to the Moyes & Kenwright safety route and the plain fact is we're just monstrously shite at it.

I think the descent has left us in such a parlous state that, unless matters improve dramatically, our Premier League tenure will be over in the next season or two.

Brendan #60,

If he was not wanted at that time, it could explain why he is not wanted now.

I know people who have seen more of Patterson than, I suspect, anyone on this thread. They think he is good and will be very good.

Why such fucking glee from some? Ian Edwards @44 that post will come back to haunt you. I promise you that.

Jerome #63,

I don't think it's as conspiratorial as you imply. I'm not saying the two full-backs weren't on our radar. They probably were but their arrival at Everton was probably expedited (including the overpayment) to save Benitez's blushes after the sale of Digne.

Perhaps you're right and the Patterson rumours appear to evidence the fact that he was brought in too soon but I don't think it's a point I'd be labouring too strongly.

He didn't do too badly today did he? Three assists and a great chipped ball to Holgate for the third.

'Obviously' @7, becomes 'probably' @65. Hate Benitez, but why would a man of his experience, end up playing three centre-backs, but insist on signing two unproven full-backs?

This doesn't make any sense imo, especially because he was out the door less than a fortnight later, but not before he had also insisted that he didn't want El Ghazi either.

It's getting harder to take some posts seriously, Andy. I heard that both Benitez and Duncan Ferguson (when he took over for one game) say that Patterson wasn't ready, but to judge the lad on half a game and two pre-season games, doesn't surprise me anymore.

Sorry to be pedantic, Tony #67...

But "obviously" and "probably" are not contradictory terms.

And of course it's easy to say with hindsight "especially because he was out the door less than a fortnight later"...at the time Benitez obviously or probably😊 believed in his ability to turn things around.

Sound Brendan, it is easy to say with hindsight, but surely a man of Benitez's experience wouldn't have wanted two very unproven, so therefore very inexperienced, full-backs when his position was so precarious?

Tony #69

I was fully prepared – despite my dislike for the man – to give Benitez a chance when he was initially appointed. I dismissed posters who claimed he was a malign influence orchestrating public spats with players and Boards at previous clubs.

Now, however, I can easily see how this rings true with his falling out with Digne and subsequent sale and I can see how the signing of two new, young footballers of "potential" would help to deflect any criticism arising from that.

No worries if you see it differently, he's history now.

Of course I see it differently, Brendan, because based purely on a football decision, it just doesn't make any sense whatsoever to me.

I was told very early on in his short reign that Benitez didn't fancy Digne, and I was told very late in his short reign that he didn't ask for any of the players that came in to Everton.

Benitez is history, but saying things like he's still hurting us, doesn't make any sense to me, unless you feel that we are missing Lucas Digne? I don't see how bringing in players and not playing them could help deflect criticism when his team couldn't stop leaking goals.

Andy #64, don't bet on any contrition from that particular poster. He's haunt-proof.

I love Patterson's obvious confidence and aggression. There isn't a timid bone in the lad's body. He has a great deal to learn about defensive positioning, but then again, so did Coleman, and he turned out okay.

Personally, I'd like to see Patterson stay and do his learning with us rather than out on loan.

Just like it's silly to say a player isn't good enough after only watching them for half a game, I also think it's silly to say the opposite, Mike. When I watched Patterson in that FA Cup tie, he looked like he could play and, like all good players, he tried to do a lot of things early.

I hope Patterson stays and becomes a regular. I really hope Lampard can slowly bring stability back into our squad. This alone should help to improve us by at least 33% imo.

Rather saddened at the anti-Patterson posts on here.

Whilst accepting that he seemed to be rather expensive, he hasn't had a great run of luck here at Everton, because of injury.

He does have a lot going for him. with strength, speed, height etc, and being young, can only improve with game time.

It also appears to be overlooked that he is now a regular player for Scotland – can't be bad. We can't afford to keep sending our players out on loan – if he has to improve, let him do it with this Club.

I read he had a good game today at Blackpool.

I want Patterson to stay too, sometimes chucking a young player in at the deep end can be the making of them. He is going to make mistakes, but he also brings energy and the ability to get some assists.

We need to blood him in and let him learn the defensive discipline on the job, backed up by Seamus, Cole, and being coaxed during the game by Tarkowski. The lad has the attitude and the talent to rise to the occasion.

After all who would bet big money on his replacement being fault-free? He wouldn't be.

Patterson and Mykolenko were brought in at a rough time; we were in trouble right to the end of the season, no way could we have dropped both these new players into that toxic environment.

It took a while for Mykolenko to settle and I think he will turn into an astute buy. We needed Coleman at right-back or others with experience.

Now is the time to blood Patterson... get him up to speed now and, with a pre-season under his belt, he also looks a good prospect...

We fans need to understand the situation we were in when they both arrived. I was glad to see us cashing in on Digne, to be honest, his time was up and the funds bought us 2 young players. If Digne had hung around, he would have devalued or left on a free eventually.

We don't have the luxury of being able to send him on loan. Look how often Jonjoe Kenny played last season and now he's gone. Seamus won't play 40-odd games and Holgate will be needed to cover Mina's injuries.

It is anybody's guess from the outside what was going on. But there is a lot of questions about that January transfer window and who actually was involved in it.

I would prefer that Patterson proves himself like Mykolenko. With Kenny gone and an aging Coleman, he is needed, if he can play at the right level.

Whilst I argued about the circumstances around how, why, and who the two full-backs were signed, I've never suggested they were bad buys... only that they were slightly more expensive than they should have been, as Bernie #74 suggests.

But Brands was gone... Tony #71 is convinced they weren't Benitez signings.

So who takes the blame (or credit)?

Andy # 64, and Mike # 72. A post taken from the Live Forum today, early doors. Says all you need to know about the poster you refer too……..

Ian Edwards
24/07/2022 : 14:15:42
Paul Hewitt. 5 Defenders and 2 holding mids. If we score I'll show my arse on the Town Hall steps.

Just name the date and time, Ian, so we can all get down there and have a good laugh, along with taking a few photo’s!!

Thelwell finds a club Nathan has a fair shot at competing for playing time, send him out.

Whatever his potential, over the last 4 seasons, club and tournaments, Nathan has played in 28 games.

28 games games in 4 seasons.

20-years old. He needs to go out on loan. And we'll see what we see.

Rob Halligan

You'll finally get to see the part of his anatomy he talks out of.

James Flynn,

The stats don't tell the story. The fact is that Tavernier is Rangers' best player and right-back – hence limited chance for Patterson.

That being said, having paid over the odds for a possibly rough diamond, in an ideal world, a loan might do him good, as it did Seamus.

But we have a lack of depth in addition to quality. Kenny and Delph both had a role to play in the run in. They've gone. Richarlison is gone. So in net terms, we are down two contributing players.

I don't think we can afford to send him off as I suspect we will need him.

IMHO, Patterson has absolutely no problem offensively and the coaching staff might have more concerns with him defensively (not fully sound positionally and not physical enough perhaps?) that can only improve with playing time.

The Million Dollar Question would be: is Lampard gutsy enough to ride against the tide with Patterson in the Premier League?

If there is any truth with the rumours, then Lampard does not appear to be willing to bet against it.

Having 4 centre-backs who leaked goals faster than broken pipes leaking water doesn't help too. (I'm giving Tarky the benefit of the doubt until he has played in formal games.)

Rob, that's funny... and Kieran, that's a great topper.

James #81, you left something out... he has also played 10 times for his country.

Mike

Good point and played well by all accounts. But I think this rumor is bullshit. Frank publicly said Dobbin needs to go on loan and backed up that view by not playing him until today for a few minutes with Calvert-Lewin injured.

With Coleman doubtful for the opener and one friendly left, why would Frank be starting Patterson in successive games if he's not up to it? Surely he'd be playing Holgate or AN Other in preparation for the opening game?

As someone who terribly over-reacted to Mykolenko's difficulty shining when he was thrown into the deep end part season — although I still think I was more scared because his throw-ins were worse than most 12-year-olds — I'm here to say it's difficult to read these comments blasting Patterson when he's barely touched the field for a Premier League match.

Others have noted his injury and difficulty getting time at Rangers, which should buy him some slack, but it sounds like he also looked half-decent today against Blackpool.

But, even if he had struggled, it's not like we have some other young natural right-back to step in, assuming Seamus is on his last legs. I get it, we're fans with knee-jerk reactions but, assuming he plays a big part for us this year, he's going to need our support more than anyone else given his age, inexperience, and defensive responsibility.

I remember, Jonathan. I was planning on teasing you about it at some point.

Mykolenko's throw-ins are still ugly... but the rest of his game is turning out to be pretty great. Better than the guy he replaced in my opinion.

Mike,

The truth is that I just don't have enough experience watching a player struggle mightily in their first big test at the highest level and then come good, though I'd say Calvert-Lewin is the best example since I started following us in 2016-17. Of course, he still has plenty of haters after a down year this past season.

Also, as I said at the time, my feelings were heightened because relegation was such a real possibility. I think for a lot of the Patterson doubters — and general pessimists on here — that's also the case, coupled with the heartache of decades of barely sniffing a trophy.

How do we bed in the young guys when we're holding on for dear life? My only hope is that our midfield can continue to improve in the coming months to take the pressure off Patterson, because I just don't see us buying a new right-back.

If somehow we loan him out, relying on Coleman and Holgate and Godfrey as our right-backs will not be pleasant. But this sounds like transfer rumor nonsense to me. And for the record, by all means tease me when Mykolenko becomes a top-5 left-back in the coming years; I deserve it.

Jonathan,

Yeah, I remember the Besic debut … but on the flip-side, we've had guys who made an instant impact then tanked. Remember Traore? Scored a goal on his debut, got injured, then was never seen again. Jelavic was another who started strong then sunk like a rock.

In fairness to you, Mykolenko was terrible on his first few outings. Nerves? Rustiness? Who knows... but he had the worst debut since Gbamin.

But, he quickly turned it around and looks a legit player. No shame in being bitten and twice shy. At least you're man enough to admit that he was better than you and many of us first thought.

ps: Thanks again for the only positive Everton-related experience I had this summer, hanging out with your lovely family, that Canadian fellow and Neil Copeland.

We can't judge him yet. He hadn't had much game time prior to arriving let alone since then, during which time he suffered an injury that put him out for the remainder of the season.

If the manager thinks he needs time on loan for now, then that's his judgement.

If that happens, I hope he comes back confident, with game time under his belt and ready to play for Everton.

Would seem a strange move given our lack of alternatives. Difficult to know how quickly the Scot hit the ground running in the Premier League. Probably best to expect some early Seamus Coleman, ie, some exciting attacking play mixed with some frightening and frustrating defensive work.

Lampard may decide he can't take the risk, in which case, he'd be better off tearing up the Championship than sitting on our bench. But, given our lack of dynamic full-backs, I'd be pretty surprised if we didn't need him and give him at least some game time.

Sending Patterson out on loan achieves nothing for us. He has to stay and has to be given game time which, in my opinion, will prove how good he is.

If anything, the trip to The States has let Lampard know that, with this bunch of players, certain systems can't be used, especially 4 at the back

We can moan about Digne's departure but Mykolenko will prove to be a good replacement as I believe will Patterson for Coleman.

At present, the 3 at the back, which becomes 5 defensively, suits this squad. Mykolenko and Patterson going forward will come good.

Who says he's going out on loan?

Top 5 full back with Everton of course Jonathan @88!! You didn't finish your sentence.

It's that time of year Jim, so just rumours that we're all feeding off given rumours and Everton transfers are as rare as Kopite integrity and empathy.

Also fuelled by tenuous links to a right back from the continent I believe I read somewhere.

If he stays then I hope he develops as Mykolenko did even if he takes a bit longer. If he goes on loan, then I trust the management are managing his career and doing what is best for Everton and player right now.

Just a quick one on Mykolenko. As well as impressing once he settled in, and conscious it was only a pre-season game, but we might just have a full back with goals in him here.

His Leicester goal was a beauty following Iwobi's "precision" pass (erm!!) and he got one yesterday. Okay I think he put it in the Park End car park against Palace, but he got into the position. If he keeps doing that, we could get a few goals out of him.

Hahaha! Well said Danny!

Patterson will be going nowhere, he’ll be needed for at least the bench and cup games, not to mention Coleman’s fitness issues, he’ll be getting plenty of minutes here.

After watching him against Blackpool, I know people will say "It's only Blackpool".

The thing that stood out was he could actually pass the ball and mark his player. I think it would be a mistake to send him out on loan; instead, give him 10 straight games, then judge him.

The agent of former Rangers defender Nathan Patterson has blasted reports suggesting the Everton star could be sent out on loan, insisting it was “totally made up” by The Sun...

Former Rangers star's agent blasts The Sun's 'totally made up' Everton exit claims

Good!

I think this lad is a young international and only needs to get up to speed in the Premier League. (Which is more than half our first team squad can't do anyway!)

Him and Mykolenko are two good full-backs. Give them a bit of time.

Are The Sun trying to destabilise us?

It's totally out of order. They should explain themselves.

No coincidence in stories like this in an attempt to inflame and destabilise, and everyone is only too quick to jump on it. It's The Sun, for Christ's sake!

For once, and through gritted teeth, well done to the agent.

As long as Patterson wants it, is prepared to put the hard work in and remains confident he'll be a good player. How good is unknown, but he's got bags of potential.

I certainly don't think we overpaid or that he should be loaned out. He needs games, to grow in confidence and develop an understanding of the position, the managers tactics and expectations.

For any player to gain the trust and belief in their own ability is always hard in a poor, underperforming team with an inexperienced manager. He needs to improve defensively but I say let him loose.

As for Alli, I think it's more a case of if someone offers a half-decent fee for him, he'll by gone. If he's willing to put the effort in, he'll be back in the England reckoning before long. Frank needs to cuddle him and let him enjoy his football. As long as he works hard for the team.

I’m aware that defenders should firstly be able to defend, but I’m also aware that the fullback position has changed dramatically. I do love to see any footballer, dinking little perfect passes with the outside of their foot though, because it usually means that they are confident and find playing with the ball easy, and you can’t have enough of this type imo.

Godfrey will probably enjoy covering the space, vacated by the wingback, but I’m not sure the left centreback, will find this role so natural.

This goes back to playing the game with the defence higher up the pitch Tony. Then the modern full back can flourish as he's not camped on the corner of his own box for 70 or 80 minutes of the 90.

One of our current coaches epitomised the modern full back. Arguably defined it. He could defend but was a constant attacking threat too. A wing back but often played in a back 4. I'm seeing early signs of that in Mykolenko's game. He's not afraid to get forward. Many bemoaned Hibbert for that and his end product in terms of delivery.

I think we have too very young, exciting full backs with potential. Learning their trade under a master of the trade in Cole and a hugely respected club ambassador who knows a thing or two and more about what it takes to work hard and eventually succeed at the highest level when you have come from lesser leagues (Coleman).

I see Ashley Cole has been given the job of organizing us to defend set-pieces Danny, although my own biggest gripe, is why we never put a man on the front post for attacking corners. It really frustrates me when corners are headed away unchallenged, at the near post, because I’ve seen many poor corners turned into goals, once it gets competitive in this area?

Probably going to become its own thread when Lyndon or Michael, become aware of what Paul Clement has just said, because we are getting closer to the start of the season every day, and just like Benitez last summer, Lampard is yet to be backed.

Maybe I'm a traditionalist and don't know the ins and outs of modern defending Tony, but I don't understand not defending the post.

Not old school literally tied arm tight to the post, but on the post, arms length away so you could close and protect it andreact if needed or equally be alive to something coming in more central and able to react to that.

Maybe I'm out of date?

Certain things will never go out of date Danny, although this doesn’t always look like it’s the case, when players don’t go and attack the f/ing ball!

I said at the time and I'll say it again. He came on for a short while at Goodison in the FA Cup game against Boreham Wood and he looked tidy.He was only pulled in that game because we needed a goal.

I hope Frank has simply been protecting him but IMO he's good enough. He looks classy. I hope he becomes a regular pick this season over Seamus and that Seamus is used sparingly in what needs to be a last hurrah for him.

I know many on here have said that Steven Gerrard didn't want him but so what? He's with us now and I hope he rams that down Gerrard's throat when we play Aston Villa this term.

Rob #80 how will I tell which end is which?

Rob 80.

I work within spitting distance of the Town Hall. And to be quite honest, I haven't seen no bare-arsed Evertonians hanging around there today. I'll keep looking though.

Come on, Ian, you don't really believe that yourself, do you?

I've just re-read your post, Tony, and realised I was talking defensively.

You are talking offensive corners?

I think what you are saying is about that first player. I know a lot of supporters get frustrated when we don't clear the first defender.

That is the idea of trying to hit the first player close to the front post.

The defence will generally be set up to defend anything that comes into the 6-yard box, so they, or the keeper, will mop it up most times. The alternative is to go deep and hit the back post or try to get it back in to the danger area.

The player on the front post can do one of two things. A glancing header that can result in a direct goal. Or a flick that creates a second phase that gives the attackers the opportunity because you disrupt the defence's organisation and pull them out of shape to create space to attack.

I'm probably going beyond my technical remit and over-complicating things, but having someone on that near post for a corner if you get the delivery right is pretty effective.

Exactly Danny, and even more importantly, if you get the delivery wrong (which happens quite often) then you still have a man on the front post to contest for the underhit ball.

This will often result in a much more dangerous second phase, instead of their defender just heading the ball away, unchallenged, which happens far too often and drives me crazy.

We all make mistakes, but instead of compensating for this, we often over-complicate instead, because how difficult must it be to put a man on the front post? Zzzzzzz.

Alan Myers:

"For those wondering, Nathan Patterson is not going anywhere on loan"

For what it's worth, I think Patterson could quite quickly become a crowd favourite if he gets the game time and plays to his full potential.

My suspicion is that Patterson is a footballer who suits 11-a-side matches better than he does training drills and exercises.

Lampard likes to stress the importance of performance levels in training - which is a very good thing as it incentivises players and suggests a levelling of the playing field (please forgive the pun) - but there are always some players whose particular skillset is better suited to match-time than training, and I see Patterson as such a player.

He is pretty rapid, likes to play direct, is prepared to try things that other players might not, and has a keen competitive streak. Sometimes his over-exuberance will get the better of him – and he'll be dispossessed, or be out of position, or take the wrong option – but I think he's going to do well as I see a player who will turn up for the fight with some good weapons in his arsenal.

This notion of sending Patterson out on loan has to be nonsense – unless we are much further along with a potential new right-back than any of us know. With Coleman injured for the next few weeks, it feels the perfect time to give Patterson the chance to lay down a marker.

If Lampard is going to go 3 at the back and play advanced wing-backs, then Patterson is probably competing with Iwobi (and possibly Stanley Mills) for that position. And when Coleman returns from injury, I'd expect Lampard to use him as the right-sided of the 3 centre-backs rather than as a wing-back.

So, in short, Patterson could end up getting a lot of minutes this season if he shows he can do it on the pitch.

Gerry #98, great catch, should put this rumor to bed very nicely.

Tony #113, agreed on the front post positioning for corners. We should always do it IMO.

Not sure we can say that Lampard hasn't been backed, unless you define that as actually getting in signings. By his own account he and Thelwell are working closely together to identify targets, and if you believe the reports we've made a bunch of offers that have been turned down or topped. To me that's backing him.

Time will tell, Mike, but I'm sure if you were in Frank Lampard's position, you would want new players, and this is surely why the most senior member of his coaching staff is talking about us needing new players to help our manager, right now?

It's not about believing the reports, IMO, Mike, because other reports are alluding to us being skint, but we do need to get a move on because the squad definitely needs strengthening, with other reports saying Lampard is mostly going to end up with second and third choices, if he's lucky. Time is the only thing that'll tell.

I can't see Patterson being loaned out, he is a right back and from what I have read he has nearly always been played in the right back position, in whatever formation the manager wants.

He may have stepped up into a different level with the premiership but he has to play in it to get more experience. Loaned out to another Championship team will not improve his game if used in a different system that Lampard wants to use with him.

There has always been moans on here of why don't we use one of our younger players to replace Coleman who is getting slow, well we have got one who happens to be a full international player for his country.

It is normal thing these days to have a supposed full back to be able to become an attacker as well, that has evolved, since I think it was A Ramsey experimented with it in his 1966 team.

We need the midfield strengthened not loaning out someone who looks like he can improve, so to me it is more beneficial to improve with your own club than another club. The other option is to buy, and there are other positions that need it more, as at right full-back we have 2 players, Coleman and Patterson for full-back.

I think these rumours are absolute media rubbish in an attempt to make Everton look even more of a shambles and worry our supporters even more…

Coleman came in with no Premier League experience from the Irish League and settled in fine. Patterson has looked a decent prospect from what little I've seen of him and I think Benitez actually deserves a bit of credit for addressing the full-back situation (although forcing Digne out was frustrating).

Needless to say, we cannot afford to ship him out on loan, when our squad is so thin, he's first choice for me this season and he'll get all the experience he needs playing regularly with advice and coaching from Coleman and Cole.

UTFT!

Richard,

You have to give Benitez a bit of credit there. We had a negative squad member and managed to get Patterson and Mykolenko (who I think is an improvement on Digne) for the fee we got for him.

If only we could repeat the trick for Gomes.

Jay yes, let's not also forget we had given Digne a crazy contract on well over £100k a week until he was 34. Also getting James out early saved the club about £10 million. Plus Gray and Townsend was excellent business after the horror shows of the last 5 years.

Benitez's transfer business in 5 months shines out like a rare diamond amongst the gigantic mound of horseshit that was Marcel Brands's recruitment policy.

This kid isn't going anywhere. He's looked good. As others have said, he just needs patience, time, and some adaptation to the speed of the Premier League.

He's also exactly what we need. Patterson and Mykolenko are the signings Everton need to make – young, huge upside, sell-on value.

A rare positive comment on TW: Everton have done brilliantly signing these two players, bolstering our back line with young talented players.

Now for that young midfielder? God we need to sign a creative general in the middle!

Richard (119):

I think these rumours are absolute media rubbish in an attempt to make Everton look even more of a shambles and worry our supporters even more…

I think there's a lot to that which is why I didn't post this one when it emerged yesterday. Some of them aren't worth giving more oxygen to.

Jamie,

Another rare Everton high point was the reemergence of Adrian Heath in the interviews before and after the game... I'd forgotten what a top lad he was.

Looks a good player to me.

Fast, athletic, full of energy, quick to get back if we lose possession, doesn't give up on 50/50 challenges, good tackler, and absolutely great crosser.

What's mor, he's Scottish so he will fight to the end.

Good acquisition and future captain in the making.

COYB

Richard #119

To be fair, Coleman started as an emergency left-back in a European tie and was murdered. Sent to Blackpool where he was more of an attacking wing-back.

It was Fulham in Sept 2010 when he started a Premier League game for the first time – almost 21 months after he signed.

So he was given time, something that Nathan will not have. Nor will he have a solid team in which to fit in.

He certainly looked okay yesterday at Blackpool, just give him more game time, I am sure he will come good for us.

Just to jump in on the Benitez revisionism. There are strong rumours that Benitez had nothing to do with Patterson or Mykolenko and both were on the radar before Benitez.

So it's entirely likely that Benitez's only contribution to their signing was pissing off a fan favourite.

Coleman was a very good player but one thing he never could do was cross. Baines was magnificent on the other side at that aspect and Digne pretty good. It looks like Patterson has it in his locker.

Phil #126, my recollection is that Coleman only really got a chance at right back because Hibbo, Pip and Jags were all injured or unavailable.

Seamus was a positional disaster, all speed and tackling but no awareness of his surroundings, a head-turned ball watcher who couldn't track or mark an attacker. That's why he mostly played right wingback for two years after his return from Blackpool in 2010.

After a course of study at the University of Moyes -- no doubt with some help from Professor Hibbo -- he finally became a full-time conventional back 4 full-back in 2012. And the rest is history.

Kevin @ 121,

I think Benitez left us more than enough horseshit with the signing of the carthorse that is Rondon!

This lad is exactly the type of player we need to sign more of. Looks like could develop in to quality. Scottish lads always give their all. As posters have said, he may take a bit of time but this is what's needed.

A world-class right-back is £50M nowadays, we're just not in that market. He's got good people to learn from in Coleman, Ashley Cole, even Robertson when with Scotland.

I'm excited to watch him and Mykolenko develop. I'd rather we blow £11M on him and see if becomes a star. Too many posters willing to write him off, willing to belive rag tag newspaper reports.

This is what I'd rather have: 5 players at £10M at his level, wanting to develop, wanting to prove themselves, pushing for their international place, thanone £50M Sigurdsson.

Coleman did have a difficult game at left back vs Benfica, but then went onto play motm the match at Goodison vs Spurs. He was awesome that day in a dark December, showing his Cafu running appetite on the right.

Found his feet at Blackpool, but the potential shone brightly vs Tottenham. Hope Patterson can do the same. He's an athlete, can cross well, but needs to sort out positional sense and risk taking.

Outrageous Brent! Almost as outrageous as the phrase ‘Benitez revisionism’. It’s actually like adjusting what we think Frank’s starting position was by constantly degrading a long gone Benitez.

Dale, some fair comment, there.

There was never any credibility to this rumor, and yet there are dozens of posters feverishly claiming that Patterson "isn't good enough and never will be" and that his signing was a "disaster". Probably the same folks who were ready to stick a fork in Mykolenko after 45 minutes.

God knows the club has enough real issues to complain about. People don't need to jump at every shadow in order to fuel their pessimism.

I watched the highlights back again.

Patterson gets 2 direct assists and was involved in the initial build up for one of the other goals.

The first in particular looked great. A purposeful burst forward to eventually put in a great cross for Mykolenko to convert.

Fullback to fullback. I'll take that!!

The loaning out of Branthwaite has not resulted in an adequate replacement. So instead of starting the season with 4 centre-halves, Everton are now down to 3, which is not enough going into a new season when 5 subs are allowed instead of the previous 3.

Patterson offers options for next season, especially with the 5 sub ruling. But I have not noticed any hint of an adequate replacement should he be loaned out, who is not from the Under-21s.

Steavey,

We have Mina, Godfrey, Keane, Holgate and Tarkowski

How are we down to three?

Steve @138,

Tarkowski
Keane
Holgate
Mina
Godfrey

That's 5 centre-backs

Steavey, we have Mina, Keane, Tarkowski, Godfrey and Holgate at centre-back. Welch may get the odd bench appearance too possibly.

Presumably Patterson, Holgate and Coleman will cover the right-back slot. Patterson, Coleman and Iwobi are options for right-wingback.

Not ideal, but then we have a poorly assembled squad. At least we have numbers though.

Paterson set a couple up doing the same delivery as I recall for the U23s at Southport, last season.

I believe there's a player there, still learning, and at times in life people have to adapt faster to conditions and constraints. All the Everton youth players, U21s supporting this squad will be on a steep learning curve this season.

If you're good enough, then you're old enough, and let's hope so for these young players.

So, on a positive, it will be good to have the attacking threat of Patterson (hopefully he will improve his defensive techniques). Dobbin, Welch, Mills, and Price could yet become key players this season for Everton's first team squad.

But back to Everton's defence: Tarkowski, played like Rudi Kroll, with some of his passing, reading the game and tackling, for me, he's the new club captain.

But let's hope Everton's midfield can get some consistency and take the pressure off the defence. I'm seeing also that Branthwaite, in getting loaned out, will eventually be sold, that's my hunch. But, as many have said, the squad is wafer thin in tens of strength in depth.

Phil @126,

You make an excellent point in highlighting the contrast.

Seamus emerged into what was a solid and well-functioning team. He also did so in a right-midfield position and he was very much a player who did a job in the midfield during 2010-11. His performances were dependable but he looked limited in midfield.

He didn't feature with any regularity in 2011-12 with Tony Hibbert first choice that season. Hibbert – a player Moyes had spent years trying to replace.

That illustrates just where Seamus was in terms of making the right-back spot his own.

2012-13, Mike, as you mention, was the breakthrough for Seamus at right-back. However, not without issue. He performed well but that season was a steep learning curve for him and he adapted well. Signs of what would become a phenomenal performer from the next season onwards.

His positioning, experience and general noise was developed during this time. I remember one game away to Reading deep into the winter of 2012-13 when he effectively cost us the game. But he grew from that and moved on.

All-in-all, we are talking about a very raw talent and the steps and the 3 or 4 years it took for him to develop into a top-level full-back. Arguably one of the best in the world during his peak.

As others have pointed out, Patterson will likely not be afforded the same in terms of opportunity and time.

I think fans tend to forget that Seamus played Gaelic football right up to the age 18 before he started seriously playing football, so it isn't strange that he was quite raw in his early days with Everton.

Those rough and ready days playing Gaelic football probably helped him when he was converted to our game because he always seemed to enjoy playing and was involved fully in the game and never shirked the hard work required.

I enjoyed watching him as well and, although I thought he was a good enthusiastic player who was a great asset to the Blues, I never ever thought he was one of the best full-backs in world football. I doubt if the very honest Seamus ever thought that either but, for £60,000, Everton got one hell of a bargain.

James #139, Tommy #140, Robert #141

I personally don't consider Holgate and Godfrey as natural centre-halves. But both played exceptionally well as full-backs when Ancelotti was manager during the 20-21 season.

It really did not make sense, Patterson going out on loan with Kenny gone and Coleman recovering from surgery. . . unless a transfer in was happening. But other areas needed a transfer in before the right-back position.

For those wondering, Nathan Patterson is not going anywhere on loan

— Alan Myers (@ALANMYERSMEDIA) July 25, 2022

Just read a extract on the Echo website (I don't know why, but it was interesting) about Klopp's right hand man, who is pushing his new book.

Two quotes - one which was more like a paragraph really stood out. For a club to be successful then it must have proper leadership from the top to the bottom. Doers make mistakes, doers carry on going, we aren't looking for perfection, we are looking for people with the courage to keep moving forward.

You could argue that those two quotes really epitomize Seamus Coleman, and although I wouldn't say he was a natural leader, he's definitely been one of the few people, who has had the heart, the courage and the fight, and even though he has been swimming against the tide, with regards to having these assets, the fact of how much it stands out, is very, very telling imo, because for way too many people at Everton, I think the club is no more than a job?

Tony#148

It is not Seamu's fault that the Club was not better managed. In a well managed club with his drive and application Seamus which have progressed in line with the Club. His loyalty to Everton may have held him back.