FAB list 14 questions for 777 Partners to answer

"Can you reassure us that your plans do not include an honorary position for Bill Kenwright and that his time being employed in any capacity at Everton FC is at an end?"

The intent is good but I think the response will be predictable.

A thoroughly true response might be a little disheartening.

It should be remembered that 777 is the only game in town, the alternative looks like administration. So unless another suitor shows their hand after the independent commission sits on the 25th, we are the sickly weak whore who has no option but to accept the unwanted rogering from the wild-eyed, slobbering, half-drunk banker.

"Have you got £3 billion to spend on players after the millstone of stadium debts etc is sorted or should we just whistle?"

I think that's the line that Moshiri wants us all to swallow: only one game in town, the alternative is unthinkable, etc. However, we don't and may never know if there are or have been any other serious potential buyers out there.

I'm not at all happy that 777 Partners are the buyers of choice for Moshiri, not merely because of their less-than-moral business practices, if we are to believe all that we read, but because I'm very uncomfortable seeing Everton as one of a group of clubs.

Everton may look to be the jewel in the crown of the 777 gang but will that prove to be true? What happens if say for example Juventus or another major club joins the fleet?

It will be very difficult for us as fans to judge 777 on their financial decisions involving Everton, and it seems to me, it will be a "rob Peter to pay Paul" existence – with 777 having involvement with both Peter and Paul, and Tom Dick and Harry too.

I can't imagine any of our former peers being involved in such a financial labyrinth, and if 777 are as bad as they are being painted, it won't help Everton's standing from a public relations point of view. However, if the alternative is administration, we'll have to learn to live with it, warts and all.

The club needs to change from top to bottom and this might actually not be as difficult as it sounds, because it has already been ripped to shreds by the complete and thorough ineptitude of people without a genuine thought-out plan.

Whisper it quietly – Fuck Off, Kenwright… or scream it loudly – FUCK OFF, KENWRIGHT! I probably even say it in my sleep.

What happens if say Vasco are going bust and Man City have made an offer of £75M for Branthwaite. Will that sale be pushed through to use some of the money to keep Vasco afloat, likely touted as a temporary loan that will be repaid?

I can see the benefits of the system but the potential negatives also need to be considered.

And so we fall back on the twin mantra, articulated by Mr Wander, of "effort and accountability". This sounds good. But effort is in the eye of the beholder and exactly who is 777 accountable to? It's not us, obviously. We just have to hope the aspirations of investors align with ours and, if they don't, that the modest influence we have in terms of protest can positively shift the dial.

As for Kenwright, I'm less concerned. 777 have enough on their plate without worrying much about him. If they sense he is not popular, it's an easy win to bin him, he's not important to them. Unless he has some undisclosed hold over them. Like a photo of Wander in bed with the same goat as Moshiri.

They'll keep him on because there is no one else.

He has incomparable knowledge of the club machinery and contacts in football and the media coming out of his orifice.

The Romans used to do the same with leaders of the tribes they conquered and the Irish with truculent leprechauns in Kilkeel.

Like cockroaches surviving a nuclear attack, one does wonder about Bill's capacity to survive. But I think 777 Partners will see him as dispensable, certainly after the investigation concludes.

As for what he might have over whom, the obvious one is that he knows it's Usmanov's money and that of course means the end for us. Certainly as currently configured, although long-term good could come out of the implications of that.

But who in their right mind would poke a Russian oligarch, given how that rogue state operates? I can't see Usmanov being too kind to anyone who gets in the way of him and his money...

I remember a time when Goodison was only a quarter full. Over the past 20 years or so more fans have grown into the habit of attending matches thanks in the main to sensible pricing of tickets. It was certainly not owing to success on the field of play.

That demand for tickets is elastic was confirmed recently at Villa Park when the home fans stayed away in protest at the prices being charged.

"I've been careful not to rush to judgement. We're all concerned about the future of the club.

"You feel that so much when you go to the match. We're anxious aren't we?

"I always knew that when Everton did change stadium, it was going to apply stress to the club. That has come to pass, we've been living through that.

"I think there shouldn't be a rush to judgement. There should be scrutiny and challenge.

"I think if you look at the open letter to Evertonians at the weekend, you can see at least a communication there that is an improvement on what we've had recently.

"There's an approach that could make sense. Having Everton linked to a network of clubs whereby there are more options for loans, you are less constrained from a transfer market or transfer window point of view, because there is a network, then that can give options that we wouldn't have ordinarily. I can see how that actually enhances our position.

"I think it has to be a case that the jury has to be out, hasn't it? We have to judge as we find and I would say that to some degree I've been reassured so far, but we will be watching closely.

"This club is too important to all of us for anything to be done that threatens its Premier League status. It is a unique asset in world football.

"The history at Goodison Park that we still can enjoy for another 18 months or so, but the prospect of a new iconic ground. This club is at a pivotal moment and it requires the most seriousness of stewardship at this moment in time.

"As I say, we will be working hard to ensure that is what it gets."

I expect 777 Partners to take these questions seriously and answer them.

They may or may not turn out to be any good, but would they have left if we could have offered them a loan to a competitive league to further their development? I’d say that they would be less likely to leave.

Also, how many times have we had players with potential rotting in the reserves? Again, if we have a network of clubs that we could utilise loan deals with, they could get that experience to make or break them. Even if they don’t succeed, the likelihood is that we will recoup more money since they will have been playing at a competitive level.

Finally - if we are the largest club out of the network (Premier League is considered the largest - even if some might put us on par with the likes of Genoa), then we could utilise that position for players from the other clubs who want to make the move to the premier league.

There are benefits, and the likes of Chelsea and City use these benefits well.

While you are absolutely correct that we either don't produce enough quality youngsters to become first team players or we block their passage. I am sure there may have been a couple over the last 10/15 years but apart from Lundstrum I cant think of to many who have been at our academy and left to play regularly in the Premier league. I think Small left to go to Southampton don't remember him making to many appearances for them and don't know if he is still with them. I think Price said the club wanted him to stay but it was his choice to leave and Samuels Smith I think went to Chelsea and I haven't seen him in any squad of theirs yet.

I have long been a critic of how few we produce from our academy. Maybe we appointed to many ex players who didn't either have the qualifications to coach at that level or just weren't up to the job. Certainly cant think of too many ex players at other clubs who have been given the important role of coaching youngsters.

I'm struggling to think of a youth player we've let go that has actually made it in the Premier League? I was gutted when we let Thierry Small go to Southampton but where is he now?

There's just lots of young players that don't make it so the club's not always wrong to let them go?

A company called Clearwater co-own Chelsea with Todd Boehly being installed as the CEO. Clearwater have had significant investment from the Saudi PIF group.

So not quite American owned… in fact, I would imagine that this is set up this way by the Saudi PIF group to stop the Premier League being able to stop it on the basis that no owner can own 2 Premier League clubs.

Take the case of Antonee Robinson. We let him go for £1M because he was never going to dislodge our left back. 6 months later, and after a run of first-team games for Wigan, he nearly moved for £10M.

If we can use loans to increase the value of our academy players, then the multi-club model will be worth it. Chelsea and Man City make a fortune from selling their academy players and, often, part of the price is the fact that they've played first-team competitive football.

In the case of Chelsea and Man City, it may have more to do with their perceived status as "big clubs." It always amazes me how the other shower get so much for very average players.

Also, Chelsea hoovered up all the top young talent a few years ago, Alex Ferguson style, and then put them out on loan at various top clubs.

Our academy pales in comparison.

I remember a time when Goodison was only a quarter full. Over the past 20 years or so, more fans have grown into the habit of attending matches thanks in the main to sensible pricing of tickets. It was certainly not owing to success on the field of play.

That demand for tickets is elastic was confirmed recently at Villa Park when the home fans stayed away in protest at the prices being charged.

It's often been said that Evertonians probably spend a lot less with the club on match days than most other similar sized clubs fans, whether that is an economic fact of life, given the difficulties that the city and the region has been through at various points in the last few decades, or whether it is more about the ingrained habits of Evertonians, is open to debate.

However, the current economic and political landscape, which doesn't look as if it will improve a great deal in the next few years, isn't really conducive to the average person increasing their spending on leisure, when there are more important demands on any spare cash that they may have available to them.

As long as people buy shirts and go to games, nobody gives a shit what supporters think. They never really have in truth – supporting a football team is a blessing and a curse in that respect.

Every owner knows full well that every sucker who goes to games will follow their team to the grave, so what we all think is utterly meaningless. Even more so nowadays, since football is merely a money making business like any other – rife with exploitation of those who buy the product and to the absolute hilt in order to make cash for investors.

We're given a voice by name only. It's a token gesture.

We have to consider where the majority of our match-going fanbase comes from and the traditional matchday rituals, which are mostly outside Goodison in establishments with no link to the club.

I did a bit of reading, we make just short of £600k in matchday revenue.

Man Utd are just south of £4M. Arsenal and Liverpool are in the £3M club, with Chelsea and Tottenham not far behind.

In terms of season tickets, our most expensive is £690. Arsenal and Tottenham hovering around £2k. What shocked me was Fulham's are £3k. I think that is for a certain section of their new riverside stand. Now as I say, that is based on most expensive.

But it shows how far behind. On a matchday, Everton, at best get about £55 out of me. And that is only if I manage to get served at half-time.

Maybe the new Everton Stadium at Bramley-Moore Dock will change this. If the plans are to be true, it sounds like we will be following the Tottenham model with bars and restaurants inside the stadium as well as the traditional pie and hotdog kiosks.

I would even suggest the club sponsoring the Bramley Moore pub. Maybe on some sort of contract basis. That place is going to hit gold.

Like I say, it's a balance of retaining the traditional matchday fanase but attracting new and, in this day and age, there are other ways of growing the commercial side and building the brand – something we have not been good at (that's being kind).

Online, projecting Everton globally; we have a US base and possibly soon US owners.

I meant to comment on the 777 thread. I wonder if we will see pre-season tournaments between their portfolio of clubs? Maybe even exchanges of players? I seem to remember Watford doing that with Udinese a few years back.

I'm still trying to edge my way onto the FAB.

Look at the recent ToffeeWeb get-together's for Mike G, and Andy C. They went The Harlech but, if there were establishments inside the ground, then I'm sure they would have been used, especially considering they all went out of their way to go and have a drink by our soon to be new stadium at Bramley-Moore Dock after the game.

Even Paul Trail ditched his match day routine and went the Fan Zone because it was a nice day and he had his child with him, so I'm certain once Everton produce the leisure facilities, then people will spend their money with the club, just as long as they don't start taking the piss with absolutely extortionate prices!

If they are going to charge the same level of prices at the new stadium, I will continue to get my food and drink at other outlets.

Thierry Small has been on loan at Port Vale with only 4 appearances, and St Mirren where he's played 15 times over two loan spells over the last two seasons.

His only first team appearance at Southampton was in a Cup tie. But he's not yet 20 so I suppose he's still got time, but maybe the grass isn't always greener.

Wow, I thought Small had played few games at Southampton but didn't realise how low he'd fallen.

I wonder if we'd ever sign him back? I can't believe somebody with such ability (when he was with us) now presumably is seen to have so little.

Has this been a confidence thing after not getting game time? or was he really "all fur coat and no knickers"?

If you think the present prices are extortionate you're in for a shock come BMD, including your season ticket price if you have one. ;-)

Maybe it's because I was in the Upper Gwladys but I was amazed how quickly I got my half-time pint - virtually no queue and I didn't leave my seat early.

That's very different to away games where there's always massive scrums for the bar. Other clubs must love us, commercially wise.

Brent (39), I think Small was better going forward than defending where I thought he was less than average, Samuels-Smith looked a very good all-round player who could make it in the Premier League while learning to improve on a very good contract at Chelsea.

In all three cases, Everton offered them good deals but they preferred to move on, there was nothing else Everton could do to keep them here — they had made their minds up to move on.

In the first tea squad, at the moment, we have the opposite of those three: players who won't move on because they have and have had long lucrative contracts to treasure while being very poor performers, jammy bastards!!

I think many fans will be shocked at the cost of a season ticket at the new stadium.

I can't verify this but a guy I know has a season ticket in the Upper Bullens like me, and he contacted the club over likely prices to sit in a similar position in the ground as he does now.

He tells me whoever he spoke to said that the new bars and restaurants will be located in the stand that is on the side like Upper Bullens and the season ticket price would be in the region of £2,000. This doesn't cover any food or drink he may consume, it's just because he is in a part of the stadium with these facilities.

To be honest, I haven't heard anything like this from anybody else, surely this price is incorrect. Has anybody else been in touch with the club over possible prices of season tickets?

Obviously there will be an increase in season ticket prices but I can't believe there would be such a massive leap from what we are paying now.

Before the Bournemouth game, while in The Saddle, there was even a guy saying he knew someone who'd already paid for their season tickets at the new stadium. I'm putting it down to no more than hearsay.

I was contacted by one of Everton's sales team to see if I was interested in "the dining experience". Packages were "on sale with the dining experiences, either every game or occasionally. These packages range from £3,250 - £7,250 + VAT per seat, per season."

"Alternatively, we will be selling our Premium Bar Experiences approximately around Autumn time if this is more suited to what you would be looking for. As these packages are not currently on sale, the prices have not yet been released."

So, the £2,000 you've heard is possibly the cost of the dining experience only, and not including the season ticket. I wouldn't expect season ticket prices to rise by a lot.

ps: I have all this in an email from Everton.

I hope you are right and this guy has been quoted a price that includes the dining experience.

I am lucky in that I have had for a number of years only paid the over-65s price, and my Grandson still gets his season ticket at a greatly reduced price. I am not sure if other clubs offer these deals to their supporters or it's unique to Everton. I wonder if they will still offer these deals when we move to the new stadium?

Seeing that we could be moving as early as 12 months time, it would help if the club suggested what ticket prices will be charged for the new stadium, then it would stop all the speculation.

I think Smalls was, as you say, more of a wing back similar to Nkounkou so it will be interesting to see what eventually happens to him. I know that Unsworth was keen on keeping him. Hasn't Nkounkou been playing well since he left?

Brent, I can't comment on Small's attire and as for the “no knickers”, well you clearly know him better than I would ever want to. 😁

I think that would be expected anyway, would it not?

Ray #47 - just going on what I've seen from his sliding tackle!

I’m still having to log in after every post, even though I don’t log out, is it hate pensioners week on ToffeeWeb!!

Thanks for that, Barry, but I haven't seen that advice, I'll try and find it, it's easy to log back on but I'm just curious to why it's happening. I haven't done anything different to how I usually use ToffeeWeb.

I was fortunate enough to be invited to a corporate box for the North London derby, the day following our Brentford game. The entry level facilities which seat 6 and does not include food or drink (other than water) cost my friend £92,700 per season which comes out to £813 per person per game. He has to guarantee a £1,000 spend on food and drink per match. He does have the use of the box for FA Cup and Carabao Cup games. There are 146 boxes. The corporate box rental is upwards of £30M per season.

Manchester City has 66 boxes the majority of which are rented match by match. A platinum box (accommodating 10 people) per season is £247,000. (£13,000 per game).

I pay £20.52 per game in the Lower Bullens and £3 for a scouse pie, or a sausage roll, if Sodexo haven't run out.

Dave, I paid £20 for my Burnley Carabao ticket, Upper Bullens like you. Did you pay more than that?

No I paid £20 the same as yourself.

Isaac Price scored a last-minute winner for his club Standard Leige (?) on Sunday.

Believe it or not I used to go fishing with the ruler of Qatar in the very late 70’s

I think it’s his grandson who I must have met as a young sprog who’s ruling now

I might take a trip over there and have a word! Better them than our 777 mates?

It's worse than that, John. The Glazers took out a loan to buy the club and then transferred that loan debt onto the club, since when they've been taking annual dividends; and they will still sell the club for a stonking profit and have no loan debt to repay as that's with the club. Nice work if you can get it. No wonder their fans are less than impressed.

Take a loan and get the Club to pay it back

As John K says there is plenty of evidence and speculation that that is how Kenwright bought PJ out.

And, as far as I know, it’s never been refuted.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/dec/29/vibrac-jg-funding-riverdance-everton-shadow-investor-mystery

Thanks for posting though!

Now it is quite possible that TBH then loaded the debt onto the Club considering that they each owned around £7 million (CB) £7 million (P&AG) £5 million (JW)