ToffeeWeb MailBag A Reply to the 'Open letter to all Evertonians'
Secondly, although I don't agree with the calls for his head, last night DM was clueless. Did you see any change of plan after they scored their second or even their third when the tie could have still been salvaged? The 4-5-1 system is supposed to be defensive Gerald and yes we should ditch it once in a while (like in the second leg). Yes it is his fault we haven't signed a striker Gerald, he's the bloody manager for God's sake! He walked away from Forrsell because of a dodgy knee - he scored a hat-trick for Finland last week! Yes you're quite right he should have invested heavily to stay in Europe. Oh, sorry Gerald. I've just read the next bit about 'smelling the roses'... you were being sarcastic there... By the way Gerald, I didn’t see any of our players 'press opponents' or 'harry them out of their stride’ in the second half and I certainly didn't see them 'break down attacks'. Christ Gerald they scored from 5 of them! Anybody who calls themselves an Evertonian will be embarrassed, angry and frustrated about last night's result and everybody has the right to express their opinion on sites like this, Gerald. I don't agree with most of them, but they have the right to voice them without having to read your nonsense about whether they are going to walk away... We can't and won't walk away Gerald because we're Evertonians. Nil Satis Nisi Optimum Gerald. Oh sorry I'm being sarcastic now... Over-achieving
The season before we finished 17th with virtually the same players so the difference was only in attitude. Also we badly missed Gravesen when he left in January. A bad start this season has knocked confidence and as a result things are not going so well. Again we are struggling to score and are not quite as solid as last year. David Weir is a great servant and you can't fault his commitment, but it lools like age is catching up and he looks painfully slow against pacy strikers. A top striker is a priority but that would mean paying silly wages to somebody like Owen for eg or Robbie Keane, Bellamy and the like. What we need is a hungry young forward who would fit into the team ethos and not want £60k a week. Finding such a player is not easy. We must back Moyes and trust his judgement; after all he got us 7th and 4th in 2 of 3 seasons and got us into Europe in the first place. The next logical step is trying to break into the top 3 but let's face it they are miles ahead and getting better. The rest of the league are nowhere near as good so a finish of anywhere between 4th and 17th is possible as demonstrated by the last 2 seasons such is the fine line between sucess and failure. Moyes must stay unless an outstanding candidate emerges. We must back him and trust the players he has signed will gel and results improve. Last year we finished 4th yet were still 34 points behind the champions. We lost both games very heavily against Arsenal and 1-0 both times vs Chelsea. Only againts Man Utd did we perform well.
Let's back the team and hope things turn around. A long hard season awaits...
The 7-0 at Arsenal was no coincidence - the total collapse of Everton when faced with offensive, incisive play riducules the word professionalism. Professionals - you are having a laugh! The last time I recieved so many texts it was my birthday! However, Friday was not my birthday, instead another opportunity for others to piss themselves with laughter, whilst 'us' Evertonians are forced to endure another embarrassment and question our committment. This time it feels different - the total lack of creativity and control was shameful. Even at our worst, Everton still displayed courage, but Thursday night was spineless. I recall being devastated as a child when beaten 6-0 by Villa and I'm sure Evertonians will recall their own tragic experiences, yet years later the shitty experience continues. We desperately need more winners in the team who will be genuinely wounded by that defeat but we cannot point the finger at Moyes, since the guy has all the attributes of a winner who has simply been restricted with a system designed to generate results and accomodate for average players - the manager has the abilty to experiment and succeed, but do the players have the passion, skill and belief to respond in times of crisis. A long hard season awaits... Time for a change
Last Sunday I watched on TV as Flintoff bowled non-stop for 2 hours bursting his lungs in his team's cause. Pride, determination, I WILL NOT BE BEATEN no matter what the odds. This was Everton back in the mid-eighties and for much of last season. Unless I see these qualities return I'll be over to Sky - to watch the cricket. Sorry State of Affairs
We had professional footballers playing a game of football out there, and looking at them you would have thought they had never played together in their lives. They could not pass the ball to a blue shirt, they could not control the ball, they had no confidence in themselves to take players on. And their fitness was not there. We have Arsenal coming up and we all know what happened last year. We got beat 7-nil. God help us! Rock bottom
Moyes should have offered his resignation as a point of principle. He prides himself on his sides showing effort / desire (not skill!) and that was totally lacking last night, so he's not getting his message through to the players any more. Out of Time or contract?
Last year a large majority of the team knew they would be out of contract at the end of the season and some played as if their lives depended on it (which I guess they did). Now, some of them with fat new contracts and new players with long contracts seem to be a different group altogether...has the fire gone? Or do we miss the bald-headed wonder so much? Soon it won't be a case of "out of contract"...but "out of fucking time"...cos we'll be out of everything else.
Just a thought.
Managing
He came in at a time when we were at our lowest ebb, when just about anybody would have been an improvement. He gave us something to cling on to with his soundbite and along with Rooney we had some hope. He managed a set squad of limited, basically Championship players and we stayed up, then we got lucky last year and all got carried away. Only now can we look at his MANAGEMENT abilities...he has spent a lot of money and has built his own team, he has formulated a style of play and has developed his own fitness requirements for the players...and it is quite clear that he is not very good at this most vital aspect of management! The spending of 25 million pounds on players like Beattie, Wright, Davies etc and the re-signing of Naysmith, Kilbane, Ferguson and Pistone shows him to be completely useless in the growth and development of our club. The tactics and lack of a plan B have made us one of the most depressing teams to watch and are driving Evertonians everywhere to despair, or even more damaging, away from attending games. He has thrown away the opportunity our luck and hard work gave us from last year, has thrown away a ridiculous amount of money on sub-standard players on fat contracts that we couldn't even give away now. So apart from a basic ability to manage a given squad of players... a bit like a good PE teacher... he is crap at every other aspect of management. We are back to Walter Smith again when he wasted all our money on rubbish just before he left with his own fat payoff. He has spent more than the majority of Premiership managers but our squad is one, if not the, most one-paced, unskilled, least threatening squads in the league. I honestly think we would struggle in the Championship never mind the Premiership and a long, painful season lies ahead. I pray that we can survive and that the next manager recognises the importance of pace and skill as well as workrate and commitment. Gobshites
I surely can't be alone in having to suffer the mass of RS who, over the past 5 years, have banged on about how amazing their managers are and then the next minute want them out. Haven't we all laughed at them and hasn't it just confirmed how petty, uninformed and simply pathetic they are? Just arm-chair supporters? We don't care what the RS say. You're born a blue. Others simply don't understand. However, if I was a red I would absolutely love reading what has been written here. Moyes out? Do you honestly think that's the best thing for Everton now? If so, then you have no understanding of the game and, to be honest, sadly misdirected passion for Everton. I'm not trying to put a positive spin on the results so far but look at the team we have now, and look at what we had 2½ years ago. We've actually played pretty well up to Saturday and did ourselves proud against Villarreal. Everton are not suddenly a poor side. Moyes is not suddenly a poor manager. We all have the right to vent our anger but just have a reality check… Did you all bet on us winning the Champions League? Winning the UEFA cup? Finishing 4th again? Why not? Because realistically we're not going to do any of them. Get rid of Moyes and we'll take the biggest step backwards since Mike Walker.
It was an embarrassing performance from the boys last night but it's an embarrassing performance from the fans today. Stop acting like the RS.
Broken hearted
Lee Gray, Wirral (16/9.2005) Was Mao a Bluenose?
Losers and geriatrics
Ok, so there were glimmers of hope in the famous win over the Mancs, the Champions League clincher over Newcastle and the
destruction of a dreadful Villa side but the rest of the stuff thrown our way has been bad. Awful, dreadful, diabolical. We have a team full of losers, second-raters and geriatrics. I can´t see any light at the end of the tunnel and forgive me for thinking about relegation in September but we are gonners this time. Prepare yourselves for a change of altitude... It's my fault
Last week at the Portsmouth game my lad takes his brothers and sister to the game as normal, parks in Cherry Lane where he has parked for years, same spec. He comes out after Portsmouth beats us to a parking ticket; everyone had one. People were going mad. He is not renewing his seaso next year.
I watched last night's game on TV with my 9-year-old son and I was absolutely furious at the tactics and the display, not to mention the worst Everton side I have ever seen, and I was there in the 70s. My son was sitting there at the end of the game crying his eyes out. When he woke up this morning the first words out of his mouth was, "I'm not supporting Everton any more." Next season the club loses 4 season-ticket holders from one family. Anyway, not to worry the club has supporters on the season-ticket waiting list ready to step in! Pass the aspirin
The defeat was so humiliating and it was on TV as well for millions to witness our beloved club falling to such lows. This for me is the sickening part, I am a blue through and through, have been for over 50 years and my father before me. This is why it hurts so much too be a laughing stock, but the performance was so diabolical. I can barely think of any positives to take from this game, except hopefully the team cannot play so badly all at the same time again. Although this was so bad, I would never turn my back on our club, that is what being a supporter is all about. We all have to hang in there. A great deal has been said about the club and last night's game. The article by Rob Fox is right which makes it the more important come what may, we stay with it. As regards the game, it was a whole lot of bad things all at once and nobody including the players, manager and board can be blame free. We have to move onto the next game which is about as tough as they come. I do hope Moyes has the courage to really think about the selection and tactics. We are still short on front men, with BT crying off again, so be it, we will have to live with and suffer it for the moment nought else to do. But now is the time for the fans to come out and cheer and not walk away, that does not help anybody. Even if we ended down in div 2, I would still be there. Equally to call for a new manager is somewhat short-sighted. This would be catastrophic for the club at this time and who would we get to replace Moyes? Those fans calling for Moyes to be sacked should consider that vital point.
What has happened is not the end of the world, not the end of Everton FC. Come the next match, get out there and support the team!!! Players not good enough
It seams the only players we sign are other club's cast-offs or players with that many injuries it would pay the club to have a team trip to Lordes. He should ask himself who bought these players and open his eyes to Moyes's faults, for he as a few. Not least the transfer market and his blind spot for sticking with the same deadwood week after week. Something must be done now or we are in for another season of religation fights and humiliation because, once again, Everton have failed to strengthen a small squad with quality and streangth in depth instead going for sicknotes and journeymen. Get a Grip!
I'd also like to support what Rob Fox had to say, another excellent article from him! Blue blood
I wasn't fortunate enough to be around to sample the mid-80's the way I assume you did. Never for a moment has my love for the club lessened; my love for the team lessened at times of course, like the rest of us, but not for Everton. My ancestors were some of the founding shareholder's of the club, the shares are still in my family today. Season ticket's through generation after generation... still dozens of them attend the match with their season ticket's in hand — includiing my nan, who is well into her 80's — still a season ticket holder, ever since she was a young girl. You think you have experienced any more hardship from Everton than any one of them? BOLLOCKS! Yet still their support in unswerving. So, if you want to bury your head in the sand when the going gets tough, you go ahead. I'll see you next time we have a season like the last, eh? Don't tell me your life wasn't better than it has been for a long time 'cos of the blues - you wore that cheesy grin like the rest of us, didn't ya? But, for you other blues out there, I'll see you in London on Monday night; if not, I'll see you at Goodison against Wigan.
We are born, not manufaactured. If there's one aspect of the club I've always been proud of, it's our support ... WE ARE NEEDED NOW. Nil Satis Nisi Optimum. We're playing our part.... I live in hope the players will one day too. Blue blood? You bet! David Moyes
Rob makes a number of excellent points, as usual. Last night I hazily remember ranting about David Moyes being a shite manager blah, blah, and have now controlled my jerking knee. Before I jump to any conclusions about Moyesey I realise we have to give him time. Practically all of our new signings haven't even played yet, and I cannot believe people are calling for his head. I think when Krøldrup and Van der Meyde are fit again, and (dare I say it) Beattie, results will start to pick up again. Moyes needs time to sort the players out. Come on people were 4, yes 4 games into the league season and people reckon we'll be relegated for fucks sake! All I can say is IMIT — and so should you. A month's pension on dross
Big criticism of Bent, a £400k player, but just lumping it to a bloke, with poor control, surrounded by 3 defenders, and no supporting midfield is useless. No real pace, strength or ability to get to the byline for proper crosses from midfielders and Hibbert. How about free tickets to the second leg for us 800 poor sods who made the trip to Bucharest? Think public relations for once EFC. David Moyes - A sensible argument
Let me start by saying I agree with some of the constructive criticism. I too feel Moyes has dissapointed in the transfer market. Not buying a striker in the window is hindering us badly, and our lack of goals are there for all to see. If we can struggle through until Christmas, then I believe we will sign the 'elusive' striker. What sort of quality will depend I guess, on our position in the table and how much money DM is given. The formation debate is also one DM has got wrong. 4-1-4-1 suited Thomas Gravesen as it diminished the defensive responsibilities. In 'the hole' it also allowed him more time and space to be creative, which ultimately, led to us seeing his most consistent form for EFC. Since January, we have struggled with this formation and the only benefit we gain from it now (although admittedly not last night) is having a holding player sat in front of our frail back 4. DM and AI need to get back to the drawing board and discover our most potent formation - that is their responsibility. Once they get that right (4-4-2 / 3-5-2 or whichever it may be) it is then up to the players. In my opinion, once the players cross that line - the buck stops with them. DM and his staff can motivate before kick off but once the game begins he is then powerless. It is up to the players to perform. Again, in my opinion, the blame for last night's debacle lies solely with the players. During last night's second half, we lacked heart, passion, astuteness, tactics and effort - everything. It was heartbreaking and it hurt us all badly. A friend of mine called me this morning to discuss the game and he admitted he had had trouble sleeping, replaying the match over and over in his mind. I bet a few TW readers went through the same. I wonder to myself if the players managed to sleep? We know it doesn't mean as much to them, but I honestly think it does mean almost as much to DM as it does to us. He is a proud man, and he openly admits that any defeat hurts him. He knows he has to lift morale - he has already said so. Whether you like him, agree with him or not - you must get behind him. Imagine how much harder your job would become if nobody had any confidence in you and didn't offer the necessary support. Like it or not, DM is our manager, and he gets my vote everytime. What are the alternatives? Bring back Walter? No thanks. This is a man who only 4 months ago was awarded Manager of the Year. I don't recall too many people asking for him to be replaced then. If you are going to berate anybody - berate the players. Look what happened when the Echo slated them after another 5-1 defeat at the end of 2003-04. It got up their noses and they didn't like it. If I recall they then bonded together and propelled us to 4th in the table. Even if a new manager does come in, he'll then take 3 years to build up his own squad, at which point you'll want to get rid of him after another poor run.
The fans asking for Moyes's head are probably the same ones who wanted Kendall's in '83. Get behind the team. We know it's not good enough for EFC but by acting like this we are not helping. So Fickle, So Naive...
What really pisses me off though, more than bad refereeing decisions and poor performances, is so called fans getting on David Moyes's back. This is the same David Moyes that was being hailed as 'The Moyesiah' last season. It was only the season before we avoided relegation beacuse there where three worse teams than us. What Moyes did last season was nothing short of a miracle: silk purse, sow's ear, etc. For people to have expected us to continue full throttle is both naive and unrealistic. I had a strong feeling of deja vu when I logged on earlier, and read some of the anti-Moyes posts. No doubt these are the same people who called for his head the season before last. The same people who sang about his ginger barnet last season.
Wind your necks in. Miracles don't happen overnight. Everton are a team heading in the right direction, so get behind your team and your manager when they need us the most. Things could be a lot fucking worse. Two words: Mike Walker. Remember we are Everton Football Club, not Newcastle Utd. Leave this type of behaviour for the Sky Sports Barcodes in the North East. Response To 'Broken Blue'
I am not going to predict a top-6 finish because on current form we're not a top-6 side and we will need to buck our ideas up. But we have got the best squad (on paper) we have had for many a year, added to the fact we haven't seen half of Moyes summer signings. If you wish to cry and whinge go ahead but I suggest you stay away from Goodison Park as we don't want whingers like that in the ground. We need to get behind the lads 100%.
That lad said at the beginning he supported us through thick and thin; well, this at the moment is a thin patch... prove your words and support us through it. Absolute disgrace
People still defending Moyes
All I ask is, try something different, add a bit of urgency to the game. We are talking professional football here not Sunday league. Why Bother?
Did they listen to me when they gave me an obstructed view season-ticket and I went back to complain? The answer to all of this is of course a resounding NO. So why bother? Do you think anyone at our club gives a toss what we think? But, if it makes you feel better rant away, relieve your burden on other pissed off fans. It's like watching Walter's wonders all over again... we've been here before. League One vs. Dynamo Bucharest.
I have spent 15 years down here, mixing with southern Man Utd fans, watching Chelsea buy an entire fanbase overnight. Putting up with "kopites" from Devon, Bournemouth, Reading, Windsor... all tellin me my club are shite when none of them have ever set foot in Liverpool. (usually coupled with a Harry Enfield "calm down"). I have battled endlessly on behalf of my club...usually with a level of decorum befitting a proud and honourable club like EFC. After last night, I dont know if I can go on anymore. I have capitulated my will to defend the Blues. My colleagues have been okay but there is a rednose upstairs that I am dreading bumping into, because, for once, I have no argument .... I have nothing to defend. I really dont know what to think or do anymore.
My club (work) are currently second in League One.
For Sale
Jesus Wept!
Following on only from two (Paul Kish and Mike Keating), look at where we are and the resources we have at our disposal. Yeah, it was a great season last season but we were exceptionally lucky with injuries. With an increase in games (even with the players we managed to bring in) we were/are going to struggle. Infact, going onto the BBC's score predictor thing, I went through and while trying to be optimistic things look bleak. I am however a realist... we were lucky last season, and IF, only if we stand by Moyles we stand a chance. Basically, we don't have the resources to get a manager in who could buy big-name players because well we don't have those resources (funds) in the first place. Or we could get a Curbishley-style manager... but what does that change? We'll still will have the attritional (Dogs of War) style. Worse still is that we should be backing what the manager has tried. Yeah the summer's signing spree was not great but we still got some good players. I don't want to end up like Southampton! I agree, Cahill needs a break - but if DM had of dropped him for this match, and even if the scorline wasn't as bad, he would have been berated.
If anything, being out of Europe may well be a blessing - look at Middlesbrough last season and the squad they had which in the end became nigh-on a youth team. We're not far off that and we've only played 3 European ties. Down and out — but not yet dead
Finishing 4th was beyond mine and most Evertonians dreams but realistically we need to concentrate on the league. It would have been nice to better in Europe but it would have probably been to our detriment. Let's get behind the manager and the lads instead of calling for their collective heads to roll. Who?
We can win the home leg... no wait...
I'm not saying we'll win the home leg, but what are we going to do? Curl up and die? There's a saying that goes 'if you think you can, you can. If you think you can't, you're right'. It might be hard to imagine Everton scoring four, but that's the job they face. Moyes is the only manager in decades that's instilled some belief in the team; he definitely shouldn't go, ever... IMWT (Fuck off)
Time
Granted Europe hasn't panned out, and in spectacular fashion, but this time last year I would have settled for last night's result as at least we got there. (Some won't agree but losing in Europe has got to be better than 3-2 to York in the Carling Cup on a wet Wednesday night at Bootham Crescent.)
I know not everyone will be happy; it's the nature of football and people will call me naive etc... but just look at two clubs who have stuck with managers during hard times:
Sacking Moyes now would effectively end our season, as a new manager (god knows who) would have to come in and wait till January to sign his players. This season is probably the first that every player is wanted by Moyes so we have to give him time.
I have absolute faith that Blue Bill won't get rid of Moyes — one of the only decisions he has got right. The dissenting voices will always be there but I suppose it's therapy for all the 5-fingered gestures I have
received this morning from Toon fans — of all people! Time is up
The last 15-20 yrs have seen so many huge horrors, in personnel & results, you all know them so I don`t need to go thru them again. Let's be brutally honest; take just last season, we grossly overachieved, with some good results and a large degree of fortune re: injuries, last minute goals, other`s results etc. We were virtually safe by Christmas, managing to finish fourth opened a great chance to resurrect our dignity & finances. Once again we have totally blown it. Since Jan we have bought nine players, four have not even been seen in the team; Beattie has been injured or suspended for more than he has played, the others Davies (very average) Valente (jury still out but a large ?) Arteta (good in spells but hardly likely to spark a revival) which only leaves Phil Neville as a worthwhile looking buy. We all know we desperately need a striker; there are so many names we might have had. The games this season have been an embarrassment (we did not even deserve to win at Bolton), so who is to blame? Moyes, the Players Kenwright, Gregg, Wyness... it doesn't matter; it has been building up collectively as supporters have been told "lies" and conned for many years. What other club would allow a cock-up like the fiasco at the airport on Thursday? The CLUB (forget the "Peoples" gimmick) generally has nosedived over years & at the moment it is in freefall to the lower leagues. We we need players, particularly forwards, possibly a new manager who WILL spend the money available sensibly but most of all we need to be taken over by a new owner & Board who WILL seriously look for a new ground or a complete rebuild of Goodison. Other clubs with far less potential & history than Everton have done this.
Should our current run of results (study them) & performances continue, it is relegation already by next Christmas. As I said "time is up" certainly for me; we have become a "lost cause". I`ve had enough; I`m finished. Perhaps more important to all Evertonians, after all my years, I am so sorry to say I firmly
believe we have just passed the Last Chance Saloon and Everton are finished as a "big club". Back to the ToffeeWeb Mailbag |
