ToffeeWeb MailBag Letters from our readers following the Bucharest disgrace
A Reply to the 'Open letter to all Evertonians' Firstly Gerald you might be disgusted by the reaction of your 'fellow Everton fans' but 24 hours on I'm still an Everton fan and still fucking disgusted by the total inept performance shown by the people who are privileged to pull on the blue shirt and represent our club!
Secondly, although I don't agree with the calls for his head, last night DM was clueless. Did you see any change of plan after they scored their second or even their third when the tie could have still been salvaged? The 4-5-1 system is supposed to be defensive Gerald and yes we should ditch it once in a while (like in the second leg).
Yes it is his fault we haven't signed a striker Gerald, he's the bloody manager for God's sake! He walked away from Forrsell because of a dodgy knee - he scored a hat-trick for Finland last week! Yes you're quite right he should have invested heavily to stay in Europe. Oh, sorry Gerald. I've just read the next bit about 'smelling the roses'... you were being sarcastic there...
By the way Gerald, I didn’t see any of our players 'press opponents' or 'harry them out of their stride’ in the second half and I certainly didn't see them 'break down attacks'. Christ Gerald they scored from 5 of them! Anybody who calls themselves an Evertonian will be embarrassed, angry and frustrated about last night's result and everybody has the right to express their opinion on sites like this, Gerald.
I don't agree with most of them, but they have the right to voice them without having to read your nonsense about whether they are going to walk away... We can't and won't walk away Gerald because we're Evertonians. Nil Satis Nisi Optimum Gerald. Oh sorry I'm being sarcastic now... Colin Drury, Northampton (16/09/2005) Right, that's quite enough of the the banter. This is NOT a discussion forum. — Ed
Over-achieving The problem stems from last season when, if we are honest, we over achieved. We had a great start last season and confidence was high. We worked hard and got a lot of narrow 1-0 wins. This proved we were solid at the back and in midfield but lacked in creativity.
The season before we finished 17th with virtually the same players so the difference was only in attitude. Also we badly missed Gravesen when he left in January.
A bad start this season has knocked confidence and as a result things are not going so well. Again we are struggling to score and are not quite as solid as last year.
David Weir is a great servant and you can't fault his commitment, but it lools like age is catching up and he looks painfully slow against pacy strikers.
A top striker is a priority but that would mean paying silly wages to somebody like Owen for eg or Robbie Keane, Bellamy and the like.
What we need is a hungry young forward who would fit into the team ethos and not want £60k a week. Finding such a player is not easy.
We must back Moyes and trust his judgement; after all he got us 7th and 4th in 2 of 3 seasons and got us into Europe in the first place. The next logical step is trying to break into the top 3 but let's face it they are miles ahead and getting better.
The rest of the league are nowhere near as good so a finish of anywhere between 4th and 17th is possible as demonstrated by the last 2 seasons such is the fine line between sucess and failure.
Moyes must stay unless an outstanding candidate emerges. We must back him and trust the players he has signed will gel and results improve.
Last year we finished 4th yet were still 34 points behind the champions. We lost both games very heavily against Arsenal and 1-0 both times vs Chelsea. Only againts Man Utd did we perform well.
Let's back the team and hope things turn around. Mark Scarratt, Wirral (16/09/05)
A long hard season awaits... Prior to Thursday night, I convinced myself that the consolation of Uefa Cup football would prove immensely beneficial to Everton Football Club, providing much needed European experience and a base for future progress. After all it proved a successful formula for Porto, Liverpool etc.. before their ultimate glory. But after the humiliation of Dinamo, shock and disbelief is an understatement.
The 7-0 at Arsenal was no coincidence - the total collapse of Everton when faced with offensive, incisive play riducules the word professionalism. Professionals - you are having a laugh! The last time I recieved so many texts it was my birthday! However, Friday was not my birthday, instead another opportunity for others to piss themselves with laughter, whilst 'us' Evertonians are forced to endure another embarrassment and question our committment.
This time it feels different - the total lack of creativity and control was shameful. Even at our worst, Everton still displayed courage, but Thursday night was spineless. I recall being devastated as a child when beaten 6-0 by Villa and I'm sure Evertonians will recall their own tragic experiences, yet years later the shitty experience continues.
We desperately need more winners in the team who will be genuinely wounded by that defeat but we cannot point the finger at Moyes, since the guy has all the attributes of a winner who has simply been restricted with a system designed to generate results and accomodate for average players - the manager has the abilty to experiment and succeed, but do the players have the passion, skill and belief to respond in times of crisis. A long hard season awaits... Hardip Singh, Darlington (16/09/05)
Time for a change At 4-1, I switched off, ashamed at seeing our midfield playing like 6-year-olds swarming around the ball like bees over a honeypot. No fight, no pride, no leadership anywhere on the pitch. So next year, unless things improve massively, the £400+ I spend on my season ticket will be going to Sky. So I can watch my football on TV? Sorry, I've had enough of cheating and diving by obscenely paid prima donnas and a Russian millionaire buying the Premiership.
Last Sunday I watched on TV as Flintoff bowled non-stop for 2 hours bursting his lungs in his team's cause. Pride, determination, I WILL NOT BE BEATEN no matter what the odds. This was Everton back in the mid-eighties and for much of last season. Unless I see these qualities return I'll be over to Sky - to watch the cricket. Colin Nolan, Preston (16/09/05)
Sorry State of Affairs So sick of the Everton Board for the mess they put the Everton fans through. Mr Kenwright and Wyness and other people alike. Moyes and his backroom staff need to have a good hard look at themselves in the mirror, because they keep telling us the Everton fans things are going well that is a lie for a start.
We had professional footballers playing a game of football out there, and looking at them you would have thought they had never played together in their lives. They could not pass the ball to a blue shirt, they could not control the ball, they had no confidence in themselves to take players on. And their fitness was not there. We have Arsenal coming up and we all know what happened last year. We got beat 7-nil. God help us! Edmund Robson, Bangor, N Ireland (16/9/2005)
Rock bottom Being the wrong side of 40 and having followed EFC home and away for more years than I care to remember, and sitting on the plane coming back (at least I had a flight home - I'd never book with the Club and yesterday's events proved to me why - I wouldn't trust them to get me to Anfield never mind Romania), I concluded that that was the second worst performance I've EVER witnessed by an Everton side (worst? versus you-know-who at home when Rush scored 4, and we lost 5-0).
Moyes should have offered his resignation as a point of principle. He prides himself on his sides showing effort / desire (not skill!) and that was totally lacking last night, so he's not getting his message through to the players any more. Dave the Punk, Manchester, England (16/09/05) You do have to wonder just exactly what went wrong. But I guess the the only meaningful analysis will remain behind closed doors at Bellefield. — Ed
Out of Time or contract? Does anyone else have a nagging thought at the back of their mind about the difference between Everton 2004-05 and Everton 2005-06?
Last year a large majority of the team knew they would be out of contract at the end of the season and some played as if their lives depended on it (which I guess they did). Now, some of them with fat new contracts and new players with long contracts seem to be a different group altogether...has the fire gone?
Or do we miss the bald-headed wonder so much? Soon it won't be a case of "out of contract"...but "out of fucking time"...cos we'll be out of everything else.
Just a thought. Dave Cooper, Canada (16/09/05) Thst indeed would be shameful if true. Somehow I find it hard to believe. Even professional overpaid primma donnas, at the end of the day, play the game because they really love it. — Ed
Managing Several of us have been saying it for the past 8 months, and although there is no pleasure in 'told you so', it really is time to wake up and look at David Moyes as a Manager.
He came in at a time when we were at our lowest ebb, when just about anybody would have been an improvement. He gave us something to cling on to with his soundbite and along with Rooney we had some hope.
He managed a set squad of limited, basically Championship players and we stayed up, then we got lucky last year and all got carried away.
Only now can we look at his MANAGEMENT abilities...he has spent a lot of money and has built his own team, he has formulated a style of play and has developed his own fitness requirements for the players...and it is quite clear that he is not very good at this most vital aspect of management! The spending of 25 million pounds on players like Beattie, Wright, Davies etc and the re-signing of Naysmith, Kilbane, Ferguson and Pistone shows him to be completely useless in the growth and development of our club.
The tactics and lack of a plan B have made us one of the most depressing teams to watch and are driving Evertonians everywhere to despair, or even more damaging, away from attending games. He has thrown away the opportunity our luck and hard work gave us from last year, has thrown away a ridiculous amount of money on sub-standard players on fat contracts that we couldn't even give away now.
So apart from a basic ability to manage a given squad of players... a bit like a good PE teacher... he is crap at every other aspect of management. We are back to Walter Smith again when he wasted all our money on rubbish just before he left with his own fat payoff. He has spent more than the majority of Premiership managers but our squad is one, if not the, most one-paced, unskilled, least threatening squads in the league.
I honestly think we would struggle in the Championship never mind the Premiership and a long, painful season lies ahead. I pray that we can survive and that the next manager recognises the importance of pace and skill as well as workrate and commitment. Mike Price, Songhkla, Thailand (16/9/05)
Gobshites I find the majority of these postings really, really embarrassing to read.
I surely can't be alone in having to suffer the mass of RS who, over the past 5 years, have banged on about how amazing their managers are and then the next minute want them out. Haven't we all laughed at them and hasn't it just confirmed how petty, uninformed and simply pathetic they are? Just arm-chair supporters? We don't care what the RS say. You're born a blue. Others simply don't understand.
However, if I was a red I would absolutely love reading what has been written here. Moyes out? Do you honestly think that's the best thing for Everton now? If so, then you have no understanding of the game and, to be honest, sadly misdirected passion for Everton. I'm not trying to put a positive spin on the results so far but look at the team we have now, and look at what we had 2½ years ago. We've actually played pretty well up to Saturday and did ourselves proud against Villarreal. Everton are not suddenly a poor side. Moyes is not suddenly a poor manager.
We all have the right to vent our anger but just have a reality check… Did you all bet on us winning the Champions League? Winning the UEFA cup? Finishing 4th again? Why not? Because realistically we're not going to do any of them. Get rid of Moyes and we'll take the biggest step backwards since Mike Walker.
It was an embarrassing performance from the boys last night but it's an embarrassing performance from the fans today. Stop acting like the RS. Rob H, Wirral (16/09/05) I am getting sick of reading about Liverpool. Please remember, this is an Everton site. Let's keep it that way, please. — Ed
Broken hearted Let's get one thing quite clear here! Is it by coincidence that we did so well last year because those buffoons were all out of contract?
Was Mao a Bluenose? Regardless of where we each stand on where blame lies for our current plight, can we at least all agree that the “People’s Club” tag has long since run its course? Sure, for the first forty-eight hours or so following DM’s appointment it did prove to be a rather gratifying – albeit barely legitimate – stick with which to beat our illustrious and smug neighbours. Nonetheless, in terms of genuine power and ownership, Everton FC is no more a “People’s Club” than China or North Korea are “People’s Republics”. Like almost every other club in existence, ours is one over which the people – of Merseyside or elsewhere – enjoy little or no direct control. Am I only one who finds all the “PC” paraphernalia surrounding Goodison to be – not unlike our Chairman - rather crass and embarrassing? Steve Rooney, Leicester (16/09/05) No, you're not the only one, Steve.
Losers and geriatrics I live in Spain now but I follow the Blues passionately. However, my obsession is rapidly costing me what little hair I have left on my head. Not to mention the wrinkles, mood swings, palpitations... Since the very first match in 2005 Everton, have been shite. That day we were mauled 5-2 by a rampant Spurs and that sorry performance set the tone for the months to come.
Ok, so there were glimmers of hope in the famous win over the Mancs, the Champions League clincher over Newcastle and the destruction of a dreadful Villa side but the rest of the stuff thrown our way has been bad. Awful, dreadful, diabolical. We have a team full of losers, second-raters and geriatrics. I can´t see any light at the end of the tunnel and forgive me for thinking about relegation in September but we are gonners this time. Prepare yourselves for a change of altitude... Rob Prince, Seville, Spain (16/09/05)
It's my fault My family are all Evertonians and I have been a season-ticket holder for 35 yrs until this season. All my 5 kids were bought season tickets from the age of 7. Four still have them. I did not renew mine this year; the state of the club, the cost, and the football... loyalty had taken its toll on me, and the final straw was a parking ticket for being to close to the corner of a junction.
Last week at the Portsmouth game my lad takes his brothers and sister to the game as normal, parks in Cherry Lane where he has parked for years, same spec. He comes out after Portsmouth beats us to a parking ticket; everyone had one. People were going mad. He is not renewing his seaso next year.
I watched last night's game on TV with my 9-year-old son and I was absolutely furious at the tactics and the display, not to mention the worst Everton side I have ever seen, and I was there in the 70s. My son was sitting there at the end of the game crying his eyes out. When he woke up this morning the first words out of his mouth was, "I'm not supporting Everton any more." Next season the club loses 4 season-ticket holders from one family. Anyway, not to worry the club has supporters on the season-ticket waiting list ready to step in! Kevin Connolly, liverpol (16/9/05)
Pass the aspirin We are now suffering from the hangover. I hold my hand up, I jerked my knees with the best of them, but can you blame the fans?
The defeat was so humiliating and it was on TV as well for millions to witness our beloved club falling to such lows. This for me is the sickening part, I am a blue through and through, have been for over 50 years and my father before me. This is why it hurts so much too be a laughing stock, but the performance was so diabolical. I can barely think of any positives to take from this game, except hopefully the team cannot play so badly all at the same time again.
Although this was so bad, I would never turn my back on our club, that is what being a supporter is all about. We all have to hang in there.
A great deal has been said about the club and last night's game. The article by Rob Fox is right which makes it the more important come what may, we stay with it. As regards the game, it was a whole lot of bad things all at once and nobody including the players, manager and board can be blame free.
We have to move onto the next game which is about as tough as they come. I do hope Moyes has the courage to really think about the selection and tactics. We are still short on front men, with BT crying off again, so be it, we will have to live with and suffer it for the moment nought else to do. But now is the time for the fans to come out and cheer and not walk away, that does not help anybody. Even if we ended down in div 2, I would still be there.
Equally to call for a new manager is somewhat short-sighted. This would be catastrophic for the club at this time and who would we get to replace Moyes? Those fans calling for Moyes to be sacked should consider that vital point.
What has happened is not the end of the world, not the end of Everton FC. Come the next match, get out there and support the team!!! Robert Jarvis, Burnley (16/09/05)
Players not good enough I am at my lowest point as a life-long Everton fan. How can a team of highly paid professionals put in a performance like last night in Bucharest? The answer is the players just aren't good enough, with one or two exceptions. Let's look at some of the superstars on Everton's books.
It seams the only players we sign are other club's cast-offs or players with that many injuries it would pay the club to have a team trip to Lordes. He should ask himself who bought these players and open his eyes to Moyes's faults, for he as a few. Not least the transfer market and his blind spot for sticking with the same deadwood week after week. Something must be done now or we are in for another season of religation fights and humiliation because, once again, Everton have failed to strengthen a small squad with quality and streangth in depth instead going for sicknotes and journeymen. David Hughes, York (16/09/05)
Get a Grip! True, it was a shambolic result, but all those calling for Moyes's head should be ashamed of themselves. The only reason we're in Europe in the first place is because of what Moyes has done for the club. It's a sad reflection on some fans when a run of poor form results in them demanding that Moyes should go!
I'd also like to support what Rob Fox had to say, another excellent article from him! Neil Williams, Litherland (16/09/05)
Blue blood Brilliant article by Chris Dunbar; have to say I agree with the vast majority of it. However, and maybe I'm young and naive, but I fail to believe this attitude of "that's it for me". Yes, unfortunately we are shite at the moment; and yes the least we expect from are players priveliged enough to wear our jersey is some heart and fight. Please though, don't try to play the "straw that broke the camel's back" card! All my life I have had to put up with the fact MY team are shite...
I wasn't fortunate enough to be around to sample the mid-80's the way I assume you did. Never for a moment has my love for the club lessened; my love for the team lessened at times of course, like the rest of us, but not for Everton. My ancestors were some of the founding shareholder's of the club, the shares are still in my family today. Season ticket's through generation after generation... still dozens of them attend the match with their season ticket's in hand — includiing my nan, who is well into her 80's — still a season ticket holder, ever since she was a young girl. You think you have experienced any more hardship from Everton than any one of them? BOLLOCKS! Yet still their support in unswerving.
So, if you want to bury your head in the sand when the going gets tough, you go ahead. I'll see you next time we have a season like the last, eh? Don't tell me your life wasn't better than it has been for a long time 'cos of the blues - you wore that cheesy grin like the rest of us, didn't ya? But, for you other blues out there, I'll see you in London on Monday night; if not, I'll see you at Goodison against Wigan.
We are born, not manufaactured. If there's one aspect of the club I've always been proud of, it's our support ... WE ARE NEEDED NOW. Nil Satis Nisi Optimum. We're playing our part.... I live in hope the players will one day too. Blue blood? You bet! Dom Phoenix, Liverpool (16/9/2005)
David Moyes Having woken up severly hung over, depressed and furious about the debacle last night, I decided to have a glance at this website. I then noticed Rob Fox had done a new article and I have to say (having dragged myself through the predictable reams of text) I have thoroughly cheered up.
Rob makes a number of excellent points, as usual. Last night I hazily remember ranting about David Moyes being a shite manager blah, blah, and have now controlled my jerking knee. Before I jump to any conclusions about Moyesey I realise we have to give him time. Practically all of our new signings haven't even played yet, and I cannot believe people are calling for his head. I think when Krøldrup and Van der Meyde are fit again, and (dare I say it) Beattie, results will start to pick up again. Moyes needs time to sort the players out. Come on people were 4, yes 4 games into the league season and people reckon we'll be relegated for fucks sake!
All I can say is IMIT — and so should you. Sean Gilbertson, Liverpool (16/09/05)
A month's pension on dross I went with some mates and their 72-year-old dad to see that dross. The £300 cost was his month's pension!!! We were locked in the ground for 45 mins after (to stop us getting at our own players!??)
Big criticism of Bent, a £400k player, but just lumping it to a bloke, with poor control, surrounded by 3 defenders, and no supporting midfield is useless. No real pace, strength or ability to get to the byline for proper crosses from midfielders and Hibbert. How about free tickets to the second leg for us 800 poor sods who made the trip to Bucharest? Think public relations for once EFC. Don Harris, Leeds (16/09/05) You do deserve some sort of reward, but I can't see it coming courtesy of Keith Wyness somehow! — Ed
David Moyes - A sensible argument After reading through the sizeable ToffeeWeb mailbag, I am astounded at how fickle some of our 'fans' are. Before you dismiss this article - it is not a Rob Fox IMWT dissertation - but more of a sensible reaction to what was a horrible night.
Let me start by saying I agree with some of the constructive criticism. I too feel Moyes has dissapointed in the transfer market. Not buying a striker in the window is hindering us badly, and our lack of goals are there for all to see. If we can struggle through until Christmas, then I believe we will sign the 'elusive' striker. What sort of quality will depend I guess, on our position in the table and how much money DM is given.
The formation debate is also one DM has got wrong. 4-1-4-1 suited Thomas Gravesen as it diminished the defensive responsibilities. In 'the hole' it also allowed him more time and space to be creative, which ultimately, led to us seeing his most consistent form for EFC. Since January, we have struggled with this formation and the only benefit we gain from it now (although admittedly not last night) is having a holding player sat in front of our frail back 4. DM and AI need to get back to the drawing board and discover our most potent formation - that is their responsibility. Once they get that right (4-4-2 / 3-5-2 or whichever it may be) it is then up to the players.
In my opinion, once the players cross that line - the buck stops with them. DM and his staff can motivate before kick off but once the game begins he is then powerless. It is up to the players to perform. Again, in my opinion, the blame for last night's debacle lies solely with the players. During last night's second half, we lacked heart, passion, astuteness, tactics and effort - everything. It was heartbreaking and it hurt us all badly.
A friend of mine called me this morning to discuss the game and he admitted he had had trouble sleeping, replaying the match over and over in his mind. I bet a few TW readers went through the same. I wonder to myself if the players managed to sleep?
We know it doesn't mean as much to them, but I honestly think it does mean almost as much to DM as it does to us. He is a proud man, and he openly admits that any defeat hurts him. He knows he has to lift morale - he has already said so. Whether you like him, agree with him or not - you must get behind him. Imagine how much harder your job would become if nobody had any confidence in you and didn't offer the necessary support.
Like it or not, DM is our manager, and he gets my vote everytime. What are the alternatives? Bring back Walter? No thanks. This is a man who only 4 months ago was awarded Manager of the Year. I don't recall too many people asking for him to be replaced then. If you are going to berate anybody - berate the players. Look what happened when the Echo slated them after another 5-1 defeat at the end of 2003-04. It got up their noses and they didn't like it. If I recall they then bonded together and propelled us to 4th in the table. Even if a new manager does come in, he'll then take 3 years to build up his own squad, at which point you'll want to get rid of him after another poor run.
The fans asking for Moyes's head are probably the same ones who wanted Kendall's in '83. Get behind the team. We know it's not good enough for EFC but by acting like this we are not helping. John Coyne, Halewood (16/9/05) So let me get this right; last season, the players and the manager, stung by a rapier-like critique in the back pages of the Echo and elsewhere, played their hearts out in response and got us to fourth place, Champions League, etc. Now, a year on, when the fans collectively have to suffer through the latest attrocious debacle, we are not allowed to point up the problems but must instead "get behind the team"? Don't you see that you have just disproved the entire point of your mail? It's criticsm like ours that builds character, ya numpty! — Ed
So Fickle, So Naive... First of all, yes we have had a bad start to the season, that's patently obvious. Anyone, who has a clue about football realised that it was gonna be tough. We were beaten by Man Utd on the opening day because of their strikers' ability to put the ball in the back of the net. We were knocked out of the CL beacuse Pierluigi Collina didn't have the balls to give a legitimate goal and denied us a fighting chance. As for last night, we got humped, shit happens. It's happenened before and it'll happen again in the future.
What really pisses me off though, more than bad refereeing decisions and poor performances, is so called fans getting on David Moyes's back. This is the same David Moyes that was being hailed as 'The Moyesiah' last season. It was only the season before we avoided relegation beacuse there where three worse teams than us. What Moyes did last season was nothing short of a miracle: silk purse, sow's ear, etc. For people to have expected us to continue full throttle is both naive and unrealistic.
I had a strong feeling of deja vu when I logged on earlier, and read some of the anti-Moyes posts. No doubt these are the same people who called for his head the season before last. The same people who sang about his ginger barnet last season.
Wind your necks in. Miracles don't happen overnight. Everton are a team heading in the right direction, so get behind your team and your manager when they need us the most. Things could be a lot fucking worse. Two words: Mike Walker. Remember we are Everton Football Club, not Newcastle Utd. Leave this type of behaviour for the Sky Sports Barcodes in the North East. Franny Porter, Brize Norton (16/09/05) I don't know howw much you have to deal with cause and effect in your daily life, but it often helps to get things lined up right in your head. You might then see a disconnect between taking aim at the fans who have reacted, rather than taking aim at what actually caused them to react. And what on earth does Mike Walker have to do with this??? — Ed
Response To 'Broken Blue' I haven't heard such crying and whingeing since at half time for some match back in May.
I am not going to predict a top-6 finish because on current form we're not a top-6 side and we will need to buck our ideas up. But we have got the best squad (on paper) we have had for many a year, added to the fact we haven't seen half of Moyes summer signings. If you wish to cry and whinge go ahead but I suggest you stay away from Goodison Park as we don't want whingers like that in the ground. We need to get behind the lads 100%.
That lad said at the beginning he supported us through thick and thin; well, this at the moment is a thin patch... prove your words and support us through it. Simon Currie, Liverpool (16/09/05) Oh so you were presumably happy with last night's ineptitude? And what do you think is the reason why we have not seen those signings yet? You may be oblivious the real state of things but that does not mean everyone else has to be. — Ed
Absolute disgrace I am appalled at the way Everton played in the second half. We have no strikers!!! 4 nil at home... Who is going to score? Moyes has dithered around; now we are out of both competitions because he couldn't get players to play for him. Walter Smith managed to get some good players... you have to ask the question why can't Moyes? By the way, Beattie was always injured at Southampton so expect the same. It all went wrong when Gravesen went and wasn't replaced. Clive Lewis, Leicester (16/09/05) Some familar refrains in there... but you do have to wonder if David Moyes has some sort of a reputation in the game as a hard manager to play under. His heavy focus on physical fitness and hard work over skill and flair would certainly do my head in... but them I'm a lazy bastard. — Ed
People still defending Moyes Just because the manager is being questioned about his tactical ability, does not mean you want him sacked. He is not a God. He has ballsed up big time and should admit that his present tactics are not working. The proof is there to see, we are shite and his tactics are useless. Start realising it now or wait until March for a big panic.
All I ask is, try something different, add a bit of urgency to the game. We are talking professional football here not Sunday league. Dave Charles, Liverpool (16/9/05) Amen to that. — Ed
Why Bother? Ok, I settled down last night to pen a letter of discontent to CEO, Kenwright, Moyes and his dog. But then something struck me... why bother? Who is going to take my views on board? I am a mere pleb of a supporter?
Did they listen to me when they gave me an obstructed view season-ticket and I went back to complain? Did they let me see my alternative seat before they gave it to me? Did I get an adequate response when I wrote regarding the lack of availability of the new kit a season or so ago and we had to wait till August? Did I get an apology from my letter complaining about the Villa Real ticketing fiasco? Did I get a constructive reply when I sent a letter to Wyness, advising him to grasp at the greatest oportunity in our history and buy a quality striker before the Champs league games? Did I get a satisfactory explanation after that Shrewsbury FA Cup game? Did I get an explanation after the Highbury mauling recently? Fenerbahçe? Will I get a sensible explaination and a resounding statement that shouts 'Don't worry, we'll get it right?'.
The answer to all of this is of course a resounding NO. So why bother? Do you think anyone at our club gives a toss what we think? But, if it makes you feel better rant away, relieve your burden on other pissed off fans. It's like watching Walter's wonders all over again... we've been here before. Steve Callaghan, Liverpool (16/09/05)
League One vs. Dynamo Bucharest. I work for a League One team in London. Each week I watch our players come out onto the pitch and give 100%. At the end of every game they personally thank the fans. Most of then are lucky to earn £250 - £400 per week as they have been signed from non-league or came up through our youth system. They park their cars in a school car park about 400m from the ground and then walk (amongst the early bird fans) the rest of the way to the club. They would have at least got a draw last night, if not won!
I have spent 15 years down here, mixing with southern Man Utd fans, watching Chelsea buy an entire fanbase overnight. Putting up with "kopites" from Devon, Bournemouth, Reading, Windsor... all tellin me my club are shite when none of them have ever set foot in Liverpool. (usually coupled with a Harry Enfield "calm down"). I have battled endlessly on behalf of my club...usually with a level of decorum befitting a proud and honourable club like EFC.
After last night, I dont know if I can go on anymore. I have capitulated my will to defend the Blues. My colleagues have been okay but there is a rednose upstairs that I am dreading bumping into, because, for once, I have no argument .... I have nothing to defend. I really dont know what to think or do anymore.
My club (work) are currently second in League One. Paul Skelhorn, West London (16/09/05) Hmmm... an interesting tale. Not sure quite what we can take from that, but I'll mull it over a little more... and see what I can come up with. Ed
For Sale Blue and yellow wristband inscribed 'Everton in €urope'. One careful owner. Hardly ever worn. 50p ono. Craig Walker, Wigan (16/09/05) Hang on! I thought they were blue & white... you scoundrel! — Ed
Jesus Wept! OK yesterday was a complete and utter disaster. Not even the 'away goal', which my housemate kept reminding me of as I swore profusely at the TV, is going to help. But still, if we had of got through to the 'lucrative' group stage of the CL - it would have probably been a very similar if not worse story, albeit it by more recognised teams. People pressumably then would have been baying for the blood of DM, and I think that that is completely unjustified.
Following on only from two (Paul Kish and Mike Keating), look at where we are and the resources we have at our disposal. Yeah, it was a great season last season but we were exceptionally lucky with injuries. With an increase in games (even with the players we managed to bring in) we were/are going to struggle.
Infact, going onto the BBC's score predictor thing, I went through and while trying to be optimistic things look bleak. I am however a realist... we were lucky last season, and IF, only if we stand by Moyles we stand a chance.
Basically, we don't have the resources to get a manager in who could buy big-name players because well we don't have those resources (funds) in the first place. Or we could get a Curbishley-style manager... but what does that change? We'll still will have the attritional (Dogs of War) style. Worse still is that we should be backing what the manager has tried. Yeah the summer's signing spree was not great but we still got some good players. I don't want to end up like Southampton!
I agree, Cahill needs a break - but if DM had of dropped him for this match, and even if the scorline wasn't as bad, he would have been berated.
If anything, being out of Europe may well be a blessing - look at Middlesbrough last season and the squad they had which in the end became nigh-on a youth team. We're not far off that and we've only played 3 European ties. Chad Schofield, Cirencester (16/09/05) There you go.. "it was a GOOD thing..." Where's my seldgehammer!!! — Ed
Down and out — but not yet dead So our 2nd half performance was dire last night to say the least! In fact I left the room for 2 minutes and all of a sudden they were 3-1 up. But lets be realistic, it's the first time in 10 years that we've been back in Europe and all of a sudden we're expected to qualify for the Champions League group stages or go on to do the business in the Uefa Cup! We had the 2 toughest draws, for crying out loud, and only one or two players with any real European experience.
Finishing 4th was beyond mine and most Evertonians dreams but realistically we need to concentrate on the league. It would have been nice to better in Europe but it would have probably been to our detriment. Let's get behind the manager and the lads instead of calling for their collective heads to roll. Fred Hutt, Exeter (16/09/05)
Who? I would just like to ask all the people who are calling for David Moyes's head, name me just one manager who you think would come to Everton and do what David Moyes can't do, because I can't think of anyone!! Steve Wolfe, Liverpool (16/09/05) This is now starting to get boring. Yes, it may seem a valid enquiry, and people love to ask it when others question the manager's credentials, but these are the reasons it annoys me: Firstly, if Moyes should go (and God forbid, but honestly I wouldn't blame him if he were to walk right now, rather than be pushed), it is not up to those calling for his head to actually come up with a replacement. It's not their job! And secondly, the Board somehow always manages to find a new manager in this situation, and to appoint him. Which again renders your question somewhat moot. So let's be having less of that, shall we? Thanks! — Ed
We can win the home leg... no wait... We've got to get rid of this negativity. If Liverpool can score three in 45 minutes (I hate bringing it up) and not let any in, in 75 mins against Milan, why can't we score 4 in 90 minutes (twice as long)? As much as we hate Liverpool, they've got a sense of belief we lack. They sing 'with hope in your heart'; that drive to not give up hoping can be underestimated. That mentality can make a big difference.
I'm not saying we'll win the home leg, but what are we going to do? Curl up and die? There's a saying that goes 'if you think you can, you can. If you think you can't, you're right'. It might be hard to imagine Everton scoring four, but that's the job they face. Moyes is the only manager in decades that's instilled some belief in the team; he definitely shouldn't go, ever... Tokyo Joe, Liverpool (16/09/2005) Now if we get flak for publishing THAT, I could fully understand it... — Ed
IMWT (Fuck off) Sorry Moyesey, you're on the slippery slope, and I'll bet Billy Liar stays. Not good enough; it's not just last night — we are still reeling from losing Gravesen. Uefa Cup!!! You're 'avin' an even bigger fukin' laff... Dave C, Southport (16.09.05)
Time Just read Rob Fox's very long article and all I can say is spot on. I might be one of the more loyal supporters when it comes to managers (stupidly, some might say) but to say Moyes should go when we are only 4 league games into a season is just ridiculous. Apart from the Pompey game we have looked OK and are only 3 points off last seasons achievements.
Granted Europe hasn't panned out, and in spectacular fashion, but this time last year I would have settled for last night's result as at least we got there. (Some won't agree but losing in Europe has got to be better than 3-2 to York in the Carling Cup on a wet Wednesday night at Bootham Crescent.)
I know not everyone will be happy; it's the nature of football and people will call me naive etc... but just look at two clubs who have stuck with managers during hard times: Alex Ferguson - one game from sack and look at them now Alan Curbishley - lots of fans wanted him gone and yet he stayed and they are flying now (though 4 games is no gauge) Then think about Bradford, Derby, Leeds, Sunderland - these all changed managers numerous times in a season.
Sacking Moyes now would effectively end our season, as a new manager (god knows who) would have to come in and wait till January to sign his players. This season is probably the first that every player is wanted by Moyes so we have to give him time.
I have absolute faith that Blue Bill won't get rid of Moyes — one of the only decisions he has got right. The dissenting voices will always be there but I suppose it's therapy for all the 5-fingered gestures I have received this morning from Toon fans — of all people! Daniel Ford, Newcastle upon tyne (16/09/05)
Time is up The comments by Chris Dunbar are so true and echo my feelings. I am 65 and have supported the blues since my first game with my Dad in 1948 — 57 yrs ago. There have been so many ups & downs in that time but I stuck in there as there was always great faith, hope & optimism. No longer... I can`t even talk my grandson into supporting Everton & it really hurts.
The last 15-20 yrs have seen so many huge horrors, in personnel & results, you all know them so I don`t need to go thru them again. Let's be brutally honest; take just last season, we grossly overachieved, with some good results and a large degree of fortune re: injuries, last minute goals, other`s results etc. We were virtually safe by Christmas, managing to finish fourth opened a great chance to resurrect our dignity & finances. Once again we have totally blown it.
Since Jan we have bought nine players, four have not even been seen in the team; Beattie has been injured or suspended for more than he has played, the others Davies (very average) Valente (jury still out but a large ?) Arteta (good in spells but hardly likely to spark a revival) which only leaves Phil Neville as a worthwhile looking buy.
We all know we desperately need a striker; there are so many names we might have had. The games this season have been an embarrassment (we did not even deserve to win at Bolton), so who is to blame? Moyes, the Players Kenwright, Gregg, Wyness... it doesn't matter; it has been building up collectively as supporters have been told "lies" and conned for many years. What other club would allow a cock-up like the fiasco at the airport on Thursday? The CLUB (forget the "Peoples" gimmick) generally has nosedived over years & at the moment it is in freefall to the lower leagues.
We we need players, particularly forwards, possibly a new manager who WILL spend the money available sensibly but most of all we need to be taken over by a new owner & Board who WILL seriously look for a new ground or a complete rebuild of Goodison. Other clubs with far less potential & history than Everton have done this.
Should our current run of results (study them) & performances continue, it is relegation already by next Christmas. As I said "time is up" certainly for me; we have become a "lost cause". I`ve had enough; I`m finished. Perhaps more important to all Evertonians, after all my years, I am so sorry to say I firmly believe we have just passed the Last Chance Saloon and Everton are finished as a "big club". Jim Martin, Runcorn (17/09/05) Well, we are getting serious flack from some individuals for even daring to publish mail like this because you appear to no longer be a supporter. However, I think the expression of anger and sorrow is fully justified, with the glaring exception of blaming the Club for a travel fiasco that resulted from an airline going bust the day before. It's a pity you did that, because it detracts from a series of very valid concerns reflected in your letter. — Ed
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* Everton deducted 8 pts; †Forest deducted 4 pts for PSR breachView full table
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