Onana hoping to put himself in the shop window

He has ability, but if his performances matched his self-belief then he'd be some player. I hope he proves me wrong. I hope he gets the move he wants, and we get the transfer fee we need.

What a shame.

Never mind.

Lukaku was always the same.

The only problem with that is it leaves us very thin in central midfield.

Not a bad player but clearly not as good as his reputation.

I think that's about right – he will be right at home with the other dummies in the shop window.

Anyone who saw our run in will know that this side has a chance of improving next year, and hungry players on the fringe of better teams must see a possibility of climbing aboard.

Moving on the likes of Onana will give us that opportunity.

It seems we will be selling to reinvest. I just hope it isn't Branthwaite. The temptation for the beancounters is there as we only paid £1M for him and would make significant profit.

And keep Pickford.

If we have to sell urgently, that's the order I'd choose.

Hopefully a decent offer for Onana can keep the wolves at bay for another year to keep the other two for now.

If he isn't in Evertons best eleven, which is debateable, I don't understand why Europe's top clubs would be interested. I thought our recruitment and scouts were poor; if the reports are true, then the top clubs are no better.

I feel he offers us nothing and for a big lad spends more time on the floor feigning injury. Take the money for him and spend it on a proper footballer, not a ballerina.

He's no good in a Sean Dyche team. Goes missing half of the time.

To the tune of “Hi Ho, Hi Ho, it's off to work we go”.

“Sheedy, Sheedy” wasn't really a song, wonderful though it was.

I anticipate waking up at 3.00am remembering another single word song.

He didn't really make the forward progression I expected from him last season but then quite a few others didn't either.

Dyche will know if he is worth keeping but obviously a good show at the Euros will boost his fee if some clubs come a calling.

Fact is, he's not a fan, so doesn't really feel any loyalty, he's done his best for us, and we'll no doubt make a tidy profit from selling him. If we'd done as much with other purchases, we wouldn't be in the position we're in.

I will never forgive him for that penalty after my daughter and I did a 600-mile round trip to watch him prance like a pony.

If we have to sell, he should be the sacrifice.

Ta-ra, mate, and take your huge ego with you.

I thought they thought he was a diving cheat? He'd fit right in.

Best way to deal with that?

Fuck him!

So what do we do? Sell him within the next 2 weeks and hopefully get a decent enough fee which should help us with PSR? Or hold out until after the end of June, hoping we can get a higher fee for him, but then face the wrath of Masters and his cronies yet again for a breach of PSR?

If we do sell after June, then maybe we could use Forest's poor excuse for their breach when selling Brennan Johnson, but could add in that the Euros got in the way!

We get very upset with the likes of Lukaku, Rooney, Lescott, Mirallas, Onana, Stones, Gordon when the reality is that they have the ability and ambition to match — that's why they are our better players: due to that self-belief.

Beto, McNeil, Harrison, Mykolenko etc will never be top top level players – they'll only have flashes here and there – and that's why they play for us.

Don't hate the player, hate the infrastructure and the numpties that have put us here.

No doubt Branthwaite will be next on the hatred…

I think that McNeil is probably the most technically gifted player that we have. Sure, there are weaknesses in his game - very one-footed, a bit weak physically, no real aerial presence or threat, no real pace - but I have a sneaking suspicion he'll become more and more influential the older he gets.

I like the fact that he is ambitious, he's not an Everton fan and owes us nothing more than giving 100% every time he pulls on the shirt, which I believe he has done.

He will go with my best wishes having showed flashes of brilliance, very rarely letting anyone dribble past him, and having hopefully made us £20-30M worth of profit. If every Everton player had done that, we'd be in a considerably stronger position!

One-word song, Tequila! by The Champs. And the great John Lennon's Number 9.

I once messed up a job interview after being obsessed by The Beatles Number 9 on The White Album, I thought the interview was on the 9th floor at 9 on the 9th, it wasn't. It was on the 10th, the 10th floor at 10.

How did I fuck that one up?

Unless a huge bid comes in for Branthwaite, I can see Everton saying no, unless the player's head gets turned and he asks for a transfer; he seems happy at Everton so hopefully he will stay at least another season.

Seems to be a trend with Belgian players every time they had International football coming up. He may turn out to be a world beater, but I've not seen anything yet that has got me off my seat from him apart from the odd goals.

I heard Lennon was so in awe of Dixie Dean's goals that he had "Number 9" repeated on The White Album, for each of Dixie's goals.

Ten managers since Dour Davie says it all.

Clowns to the left of us, jokers to the right, here we are, stuck in middle with us – for all but half my now OAP life.

Bitter?

You bet!

Onana might not be perfect but he did contribute to the efforts of keeping us up these past 2 seasons.

Mark #36, Garner is a high-floor, low-ceiling player.

My sons like him more as a player than me. However, he is a capable player in a role where more clubs are paying big money in the modern game – the defensive midfielder who can transition play from the defenders playing the ball out from the back to the flanks or forward. It is the nature of that position that, when you make a mistake, it will really show.

Our new football model is to sign young players and then sell them for big gains. So I am not so sure why him selling himself in the interview is such an issue when I am pretty sure the club is marketing him as available for sale?

That is Thelwell's football model working to make us a financially sustainable club. Brighton do it and are lauded by everyone, and I don't think we can blame the players who leave in such circumstances.

I think, if we can get £55-60M for him, it's a great deal for all concerned. He can be easily replaced with low-cost alternatives.

He won't be a big loss, as he was okay not great. I am more concerned about other sales. Looking at the finances, I suspect, two, three, or four others will have to be sold.

If we get £60Mm for him, Thelwell got an A for this transfer. £20M plus profit in 2 years.

If he stays, I hope he puts in that missing 10%. If he goes, I will watch him tear up the world. I don't hate him at all and, as long as he does play for us, I'll applaud him after each game. He's just worth more in dosh to us than he is on the pitch.

In my opinion.

I've never understood the mentality of someone who takes the time to go on the internet to generate nastiness and hate. Football seems to bring it out in people.

Onana is a potentially very good player, but all parties will be happy if he leaves for a good fee. We don't have to slag him off in the meantime.

There will be other players we could bring in to cover the loss of Onana, but is there another Branthwaite out there? I think we are lucky we have got a player like Branthwaite, the team needs to be built around this lad.

It will be a good while before a player like Branthwaite turns up anywhere; the lad has everything – we have to do all we can to keep hold of him.

If that means Onana is sold instead, I can live with that.

Like it's been said, he isn't an Evertonian so it's up to us to get as much cash as we can for him.

For me, Onana is one of the few, possibly the only one, of our midfield players who moves to take a pass – something that is rarely seen from Garner or Gana – and, if the rest of our midfield and wide men did the same, then we would look like a far better football team.

But once he does this, there is rarely anything other than a backward, return or square pass; his true value will be seen when he is with players who move for and want the ball. I really wouldn't want anyone in our midfield who tries to beat or dribble past the opposition in our half of the park.

I hope he is a stand-out at the Euros because he is one of us and I don't have a real problem for him to talk about his possible career path, unless, like other Belgian internationals, he is just parroting Koeman.

Not sure whether he reads these pages but mostly all he gets is grief.

Managers must hate fan pages. All they want to do is encourage players and give them a bit of confidence, then the players go home and maybe read the abuse?

It's a funny old game.

Enough people apparently see this differently and are prepared to pay up for him, however, so I would be delighted to offload him.

A real shame since he comes across as a nice guy in his off-field interactions with the younger supporters but he won't be missed by me. These Belgian players can't help shooting their mouths off to their press, it seems.

Not sure if he will be a top player, but what I will say is he has never looked head and shoulders above anyone in our current midfield, and they are hardly top-class.

For every shit comment he has received, there are a hundred kids who worship him and have his name on their shirts.

If some of the comments are poor, the same argument could be used about his interviews. 'Stepping stone' and 'wanting to move to a bigger club' – probably not what our fans want to hear.

I'd not lose any sleep if he was moved on for a decent price.

I had the same thought about the impact of the Euros on the timing of sales and the knock-on implications for our PSR calculations. Another issue is that some of the potential bidders have their own PSR worries meaning they will need to sell before they can buy.

What an artificial construct PSR is! It would not be a total shock if we were unable to make any sales by 30 June.

In regard to Onana, I think he has been a 6/10 player. There have been brief flashes of quality between lengthy periods of anonymity. He never grabs hold of a game.

Given his low output of goals or assists the role for which he seems best suited is in the defensive midfield where his tackling ability and eye for a quick pass can make a difference.

At 22 years old, time is on his side but, if he wants to enjoy a top career, he needs to accelerate his development in the next year or so.

If we paid £30M for this kid, then someone must have thought that he has potential, and if true that he might go for £60M, then someone else is looking on cashing in on that eventual return.

In the games I have seen him play for Everton, I think his lack of talent might handicap his ambition.

But of all the players we most likely will need to sell to pay our damn bills, Onana is the one I will miss the least. That doesn't equate to not liking the kid – again, I think he's going to be a very solid player and will continue to develop and get better.

But as Dave says, I just don't see the affinity for Everton. He'll get a pretty good amount of money that we desperately need, and if it's him we have to sacrifice while we find a new buyer and then can hopefully hold on to Branthwaite and Pickford, we don't have much of a choice other than to ship Onana out and cash in.

Best of luck to the kid, I think it's simply a nailed-on fact he's out the door.

If we sold him and kept Branthwaite, I would be very happy. I would sell Calvert-Lewin too to be honest, I think he is repleacable.

Like Lukaku and Stones, he's marmite to a lot of people and we'll regret selling him (I loved all three) but it's not in our hands so we move on.

I disagree about the “affinity” thing though. He's always been first over to the fans at most games hasn't he? And who has “affinity” these days? Even that dog's turd, Anthony Gordon is raving about the atmospheres at the Sports Direct shed and Mordor. Not a word about his boyhood club.

And don't get me started on the likes of Slippy G, Carra, Rush, Owen, Fowler etc….

While I don't think he lacks talent, your assessment of his effort was more on target than mine. I do believe he was told to mind his defensive position but he never figured out how to be a threat with that responsibility.

Several late or matador tackles around the box were so unParky that I lost some faith in him. He could have done better and did not. That is on him given how Gana and Garner got on with it without him. Too patchy for that level money.

I thought Jack Rodwell would go to the very top (so did Man City) but, despite clear and obvious talent, he didn't seem to have a burning desire to win and found himself playing second and third fiddle to those who did.

I see a lot of similarities between Onana and Rodwell at that age. Big, powerful. Good on the ball. Unlimited potential... but.

I don't want to dismiss Onana, or any young player, but honest to god, for me, he still has it all to do.

Unfortunately for these young multi-millionaires, football can become a distraction from their jet setting lifestyles. Only the most disciplined and focused get, and stay, to the top. Social media and hanging out with A-listers is the new goal.

Rodders was never in that category.

Rather him than Phillips for me. Fitness record excellent. Scottish International - Played 105 games in the past two seasons!

Defensive midfielder. Scouser, was on our books at one time. Played in Premier League with Sheff Utd previously – not last season!

With Onana and Gomes both going, he would be on a reasonable wage and give us that Scottish aggression in midfield. Age 30. Clement was hoping he'd sign a new contract – he hasn't.

Also released by Rangers: Borna Barisic, Croatian left-back. he could be paid a lot less than what Young will be earning. Age 31. Good cover for Mykolenko.

Although not young, these two could be just what we need for the next couple of seasons, just to keep us afloat, as we all know: "Beggars can't be choosers!"

Everton in my opinion are not a much better side with Onana in it. It's not like for instance West Ham, who were much better with Rice, or Man Utd without Mainoo, Guimares at Newcastle, Luiz at Villa, or even lower down Gibbs-White at Forest and Periera at Fulham.

Remove these players from their teams and they're all greatly missed. They may not all play the same role but all are central midfielders and do or can play in the same areas.

Agreed. Lukaku, Stones, and I'd concur Onana will be players who we lost that did turn out or will turn out as very solid, if not great, players.

Karl,

I think you need to view our current situation through a different prism. You say, "Everton in my opinion are not a much better side with Onana in it."

What we need to avoid is not being a worse side overall. Not if we're better with player X or player Y, but if we are worse without them.

Gana is aging. If he gets hurt or losses those immortal legs of his, we need cover in a Dyche system, and Onana is more than capable. Without him, there's a very critical hole in the pitch right in front of the back 4. Not good.

Our current plight equates to not viewing the lens as "will we be better" but unfortunately "will we be worse" and face relegation again.

But the money is such that this debate is mute. We desperately need the money and Onana will be first on the chopping block I'll wager.

Hopefully he plays a blinder during the Euros and his ambition is fulfilled and he gets his dream move to one of of Europe's elite teams and the club makes a healthy profit on the back of any move, the jury's out on that materialising though...

As an an extremely physically impressive specimen of a player in the mould of Patrick Viera he very rarely dominates a game or opposition teams.

He won't be endearing himself to fans with some of the wording used in this recent interview as it looks like his ego is almost as big as the score his name would get in game of Scrabble - Amadou Ba Zeund Georges Mvom Onana

Jack #70, I don't think you'd even be considering Lundstram if he weren't an Evertonian. Yes, he's a warrior, but he's just too slow. He looked one step off the pace in the Prem, and I doubt he's gotten any faster in three years north of the border. If there's one thing we must have with every signing, it's pace. We remain one of the slowest teams in the league.

Let's see if those managers you mention follow it up by making a bid for Onana or is the reality that these stories linking him with certain clubs and managers are in the imaginations of the people writing these stories?

Unless of course you can give a link to a genuine bid by any of these managers or clubs.

I won't go too far back.

Some were judging Mykolenko after 2 games.

Hibbert and Osman took a lot of stick from some quarters.

There are probably many more people could list.

Onana has vocally put himself on the market in a Lukaku type of way. I'm sure his agent is on the phone. Who that is will anyones guess.

But Lukaku used to do this regularly when on international duty. It took a few seasons for anything to materialise.

He might just be talking about his future ambitions. Circumstances may dictate. I'll wait and see.

Onana will be the easiest to replace given he didnt feature in every game and we have other cover but he will still leave a hole that needs replacement.

Sadly, Onana is a Champions League style player in a team that, out of self-preservation, plays to the strength of its weakest players (and there are many who are a lot weaker than Onana).

Indeed, we've played that way for so long (the best part of 35 years) that fans seem to struggle to get their heads around players like Stones, Lukaku and Sigurdsson who had genuine talent. Personally, I'm keen for more players of genuine talent so we're no longer needing to rely on hard work alone.

I've seen about 20 articles just over the past two weeks. Sources range from Forbes, ESPN, Sportskeeda, The Athletic, Football Insider and the Standard to all three Barca club fan sites and crap sites like Hard Tackle. All from different reporters. All link him to Barca and/or Arsenal, plus others. If every writer is imagining those links, then it's quite a mass insanity.

But no, since I don't have a time machine to jump us all forward to the opening of the window in 2 weeks, I can't offer you a link to a "genuine bid" just yet. Of course, if you're right about the player's quality and the writers' madness, there won't be any offers. Maybe QPR or Millwall offering £4M… After all, he's crap, right?

Let's reconnect around 30 June and see how it turned out.

There is a world of difference between Onana and Branthwaite and the fans react accordingly.

Can you guess what it is? Onana doesn't live up to his obvious ability, he doesn't commit, he doesn't show any desire to dominate a game.

Branthwaite has grown into one half of a highly successful defensive partnership (close to the best in the Premier League, I recall). Onana has probably only shown what he is capable of in a handful of games and none I can think of from last season. He even appeared to mute himself playing for Belgium against England.

That is why Onana won't be missed. He appears to be waiting for something; let's hope it is a massive transfer fee to somewhere else.

All supporters will have their views on players, and we won't always agree. That's football. It's all about opinions.

Onana could go on to be a star. He joined a struggling Everton team and probably wondered what had hit him.

In a better team, he could look a different player.

Anthony Gordon had a good last season for us, but has looked even better surrounded by better players at Newcastle.

Idrissa, Doucoure and remember Iwobi?

There are plenty more. It's all pub debate and conversation.

Those like me who blindly cheer them on. The "you're shite ,Everton" bloke. No one is right or wrong. We just have a view and a way of putting it across in our own way.

Yes, as I say a genuine bid, a genuine indication that one club are interested in him, not a link off a reporter.

It's a pity you are not in a position to buy him or he'd be gone tonight. How much would you pay for him, Mike?

It was with regards to the notion that we, the fans, somehow hate our best players for no reason. It perplexes some, I read.

Complete nonsense.

Onana deserves everything he gets. Do you think he cares about what someone posts on ToffeeWeb? Get real mate.

'Shitbag' isn't nasty, it's accurate. He has stolen a living from us (not the first, granted) and has coasted his way through games, shirking tackles and responsibilities, all the while waving and gesturing to us match-going, money-paying fans to get behind the team.

That is fake. That is fraudulent. That is nasty.

Proper Evertonians can spot a phoney a mile off and this fella is the dictionary definition. As for comparisons to Viera by some – even in his first season at Arsenal – give me a break. He's not fit to lace Viera's boots.

Danny O'Neill, you have a point about players splitting opinion, but not in the case of this particular individual.

Anyone who has seen him in the flesh, up close and personal, isn't fooled. Others who haven't talk about his potential. If he was as good as some make out, then why didn't he start more games during the run-in? I'll tell you why: because his attitude stinks off the pitch as much as it does on it.

And did I actually read somewhere above that not many players go past him. Jesus Christ, that is just not true. I've seen milk turn quicker than Onana.

Good riddance.

And I can do without all that geeing up the crowd. You do your job, mate, and let us do ours. Anyway, if you were playing better, we'd be cheering more.

He rarely makes an impact for a player so fancied and, sadly for him, Everton Football Club needs more than he gives. So, despite others praising his qualities, for us it's not to be. Wrong time to be at the club for him; we need the money more than we need the man.

I can't really remember how Vieira started in the Premier League (1995-96). But I think he really kicked on when he was joined by Petit the following season (1996-97).

They then had the former George Graham back 5 – Petit and Vieira in centre mid – and then Parlour, Overmars, Bergkamp, Wright and Anelka in wide or forward positions.

That's quite a bit different to our non-existent right flank, the total lack of technical ability and / or pace in wide and attacking midfield positions.

Peter #81, I think it's easier for a centre-back to look good in a deep, conservative side. Branthwaite may find it hard initially to adapt to a higher defensive line with more space to run in behind him (although I think he'll develop very well).

Onana isn't really suited at all to our set up unfortunately – since he may superficially resemble Vieira but probably plays more like Emre Can did tonight in the Champions League Final – as an auxiliary centre-back just in front of the back 4. In fact it wouldn't surprise me to see him switch between centre-back and central defensive midfield at a team which prizes possession.

All that matters is what somebody else will pay for him. Sorry, you have to wait for the window to open to find out which idjit wants him, be it Arteta or Howe or whoever, but do you want to wager he turns out to have been a fantastic investment? I'll bet you a pint we make more than £20M profit... not a bad return for ~70 games.

Or, if your opinion is the operative one, nobody will come in for him.

He doesn't appear to be a goalscoring midfielder.

He doesn't appear to be a creative midfielder making plenty of assists for goals.

He doesn't appear to be a midfielder who sits deep and makes the team tick with short and long passes.

He doesn't appear to be a midfielder who's constantly winning the ball back off the opposition.

He may turn out to be an effective player for someone but I don't think it's going to be in the Premier League.

I can see the potential in him, just maybe not right for Everton at this point in time.

He is still only 22.

I believe that he wants out because of the slagging he took after that abortion of a penalty against Fulham. Apparently his arse has carried and he's shit scared of making a goof and getting down the banks again.

I believe there is a decent player there somewhere, just not with us!! Take what we can while we can and both parties can move on.

I think that could apply to anyone at Everton at the moment.

He's been inconsistent in an inconsistent team. Goes missing for periods of the game but puts in some great tackles.

If it was a school report, 5/10.

Time will tell with the young player. That won't be with Everton.

Football logic tells you, surrounded by better players, he will be a better player.

I can do that – 'gis a job'!

I get Christine's point. He will probably be sold off.

And go on to be a good player for someone else in a better team as the 22-year-old matures and develops.

I just find it strange. And a little unhelpful if I'm honest as this is a young player who moved leagues and countries to come and play for us. Other young talents will look at this sort of ‘support' – and maybe it will, maybe it won't affect their desire to play for us.

Sure he's not been an unmitigated success and maybe he's not as good as Patrick Viera… but he's rarely shirked, has always looked to take responsibility, and will likely earn us a handsome profit!

In terms of what he does, he's a ball winner first and foremost and is in the top 3% of midfield tacklers at duel winners at his age across the whole of Europe. He needs to improve his work on the ball but that's hard to do in a team with little possession.

My whole consistent argument is that I don't see the same player you see. Whatever he does in the future has no bearing on what I have seen in the player who played for Everton. He has been consistently less than average with very fleeting moments of good moves.

For Everton FC's financial situation, I hope when he moves, we get a fantastic fee for him and good luck to the lad. His future club and, most of all, the supporters of the club he goes to, if they are all like you, Mike, he'll be an instant hero. If they are like me, there will be plenty of swearing in the grounds but, as long as we pull the scam off – sorry, as long as we get the dough – who gives a fuck?

I am with Sam 102 on this. Some of the comments against him are ridiculous.

He isn't the next Lampard, Scholes, gazza or gerrard. He is a stopper that plays an easy pass. In the modern game most possession based teams have a couple of them in their squads.

He was better than anything we had when we signed him and selling him on will make an already weak squad weaker.

Who do people want to replace him with? Bearing in mind we are in the loan market or bargain bin.

I remember Onana's first game for Dyche, for one specific reason. I thought he had just had his best game in an Everton shirt, in our victory over Arsenal, and I thought he even showed glimpses of being able to do the dirty work.

What was very telling though (maybe something to beat up Dyche for some people) was that our new manager, said he had been speaking to Onana, after the game about introducing him to Stefan Defour, who had played for Dyche, at Burnley.

I know who he his said Onana, and Dyche apparently said, and so do I because he used to play for me. Maybe I will bring him over so he can talk to you about the English game, and he can tell you how physically demanding it is, because you have got to be able to do the hard yards to be a successful midfield player in England, and I still don't think I've ever seen Onana, work harder for his teammates, than he did that day.

A slow learner? Someone who thinks he's better than he his? Or someone who is waiting for a better team, before he decides he's gonna work his socks off?

We will see how he does in this summer's Euros, when I'm certain that most Evertonians (I'm not sure about Brian H & Dave) will unite behind him and hope he gets us that £20M profit, especially if it means we can keep hold of Jarrad Branthwaite.

You say "he's rarely shirked, has always looked to take responsibility..." but I think that's very much up for debate. And I am saying that as someone who likes Onana and recognises his huge potential.

But I've been disappointed by his hesitancy to impose himself on a game. Maybe that is on account of instruction from Dyche not to do so, but I'd like to see him carry the ball more, and generally be more dynamic.

At times, I think he has definitely played within himself, and at worst he has gone through the motions a bit. And that's why I can understand why other fans have been disappointed by his contributions so far.

I think he ended the season poorly but was arguably one of our best players in the first half of the season.

This is definitely something Onana is capable of and we may see him do it more when he moves to a better team more comfortable in possession.

The more I read about stats, the more I disbelieve them. Regarding Onana:

“He's in the top 3% of midfield tacklers/ duel winners at his age across the whole of Europe”!!

All the midfield players of Onana's age must have been on a work-to-rule when they did the ratings on this.

By the way, when people talk about him being a ‘cheerleader', they mean this about his antics during the game: when he wins a throw-in, he turns to the crowd asking them to get the cheers going.

As for the after the game and going to the crowd, even when he's only played as a sub. I wish he would show the same enthusiasm during the bleedin' game instead of going missing – which he is very consistent at.

Tony (103),

I can't speak for Brian but I'll be 100% behind Onana playing for Belgium if it means we will make a good profit on him if we sell him. But saying that, I've seen him play for Belgium a few times and he's been the same as he plays for us.

He's second on my list to sell (because we have to). Not so good on PSR because of his high purchase value and sell on clauses (which is why £40m is not much use) but he does struggle to fit into the system and, perhaps understandably, has personal ambition well above loyalty to us. But if he inflates his fee over summer, he will at least deliver us a decent profit which you couldn't claim for most of our signings in recent years.

Then once he's gone, I'll forget about him about as quickly as he will forget about us...

Just to answer your question, I will be cheering on Onana during the Euros and hope he manages to convince another club to buy him.

Reading most of the threads on here, the reason he hasn't shone is because of the system we play, or the players around him. They say he has 'potential'; another word used to say he hasn't shown much but he will.

All pure speculation, instead comment on his performances since he has been here, which have left a lot to be desired. I think he played in all 15 games we didn't win but didn't start any of the Forest, Liverpool or Brentford games we won. Anybody like to comment on the reason for that?

In fact, Arsenal have very successfully rebuilt their side using the CIES statistical framework (Link) that assesses players by role in the side, not by position.

I can tell you are going to love this but Onana is an "air blocker filter man" meaning strong on aerial defence and recovery tackles – the same as centre-backs Van Dijk, Marquinhos, and Casemiro. Onana scores very highly in this regard (top 5 of those under 25 in world football at one point).

He won't ever do anything very remarkable, but he's very good at the unremarkable stuff all good sides need.

I know how much you loathe stats that contradict the evidence of your own eyes but luckily those same sort of stats are probably why many of the top clubs in Europe are supposedly after him.

I am sure we'll never convince each other but let's agree on our mutual desire for him to raise a good fee for us!

I like to judge on what I see with my eyes.

It's more important that the scouting network get out there and look at players, based on recommendations from their network, rather than looking online.

Just my opinion.

These are problems Everton have had for a few seasons now and the results have shown it.

It all comes down to the personnel they have had to endure mainly due to lack of real finance.

Dyche has done well with the limitations placed on him and although some talented youngsters have come in they have struggled to get results against almost every other Prem. team and particularly at Goodison.

If the finances improve and Dyche can use some of it, then I believe Everton can rise to a much higher level than we have witnessed.

Money talks, you only have to look at Man City and Real Madrid.

Like has been said, everybody is entitled to their opinion. But for me, great players don't split opinion, their quality shines through. The best players may not influence a scoreline all the time but they will influence how their team plays.

Unlike many other clubs, Everton's first XI is almost all English or UK in origin. So adding just those factors, that's pretty big stress. I doubt outside of "club hours", there is any real support network.

Everton do excel at player care internally and externally but how far that goes in managing his lifestyle and needs, I don't know. That is vital to anyone moving away from home to a job in the same country let alone a foreign country.

As a player, he has been expected to blend into and run a midfield that has been poor for some mighty long time. One that is used to relegation and little else. With managers that are changed more frequently than his car's oil filter.

Dyche will be the first manager who has lasted more than a season so Onana can actually begin to form a professional working relationship. Learning and developing as opposed to winging it.

Alongside better players for Belgium, he is a small fish in an elite pond. Nothing extraordinary expected of him other than to show his ability and express his football. Having world class players all around makes your game so much easier.The complete opposite is true at Everton.

He was seen as some sort of mercurial messiah upon arrival. A level of ability that he hasn't built up yet. As stated with no consistency in managers and coaches, player colleagues with little benefit to offer, is it any surprise he has had to make it up?

With Dyche, the team has been unified into a unit that does a job. Clearly there is going to be no sudden influx of better quality or experience that Onana can learn and thrive from.

Personally, I am not sold on him yet. He has his moments good and bad, but I expect that. The lad has massive potential but needs to be in a team where there are 12 or 13 quality superstars and he is the long-term future. Everton is not that and won't be for a long time.

He is a player we paid a lot for. I don't believe we will lose out, unlike the vast majority of acquisitions. I hope he has a good tournament. But, if he tries too hard and plays unlike usual to make it happen, then it won't.

I would find it incredible if a manager bought a player just looking at his stats but never saw the player. I would absolutely love it if some manager paid £50M or £60M for Onana going on his stats.

Then again, we paid over £30M for a 20-year-old Onana so it must have been his stats — surely? Unless Thelwell needs to go to Specsavers!!

I don't think many of us expected him to turn up and just run our midfield. He cost £30M; as such, I expect him to be ready for Everton's midfield and show his quality and improve what we already have.

He has shown glimpses but improving to such a point where he is playing in a team chasing the biggest honours? I would be very surprised… I also hope the lad has a great Euros – as I do all Everton players taking part.

If, and it is a biggish if, we get north of £45M for Onana, then Thelwell's done a very good job.

Your third paragraph, I couldn't believe any of it. Who the fuck makes these stats up, do they get paid for it?

Early this year, I saw physical stats that one club made over a period of a young player they were interested in, showing him in action over multiple games — I understood it perfectly.

Martin (114), I honestly enjoy your posts and you make a lot of sense in this one but I can assure you: “If he tries too hard” in your last sentence — it will be the first time he has ever done that.

I honestly and truly wish I could see the Onana some fans see. For me, it's like looking for meat in a bowl of blind scouse – there's none fuckin' there!

Definitely and he deserves a large bonus. As for Onana, it will be "Goodbye" from him and “Glad to see the back of you” from me.

My guess is the amount of cash spent this window will be a lot less than recent summer windows. More clubs will be trying to sell than buy. If this is the case, big money transfers along with big money salaries will be a lot harder to achieve for both clubs and their players' agents.

So it could be that the players we think we can sell will be still here come August unless we lower their price tags.

I knew you'd enjoy the CIES framework! Yes, they do get paid. They also do a weekly newsletter which you can subscribe for free of charge. Fill your boots.

I can see why those who had the more realistic ‘hopes' may still be on the fence. 22 is still very young and being all conquering whilst having to make do with our patchy ranks would be beyond Roy Race. But he definitely hasn't had any definitively standout performances either.

The economic situation at the club means it is probable he's been put on notice by the club that he is likely to be determining his next club by how well he does show in the Euros, so why is he being slated for being disloyal?

Just hope he does burnish, and not banish, his reputation!

It is because I think he could be a great player that I am so disappointed in him. Unlike some, I do think he shirks and plays too safe on many occasions.

Tony mentioned the Arsenal game, that and a few others made me a believer in what he could be. He has all the attributes but just doesn't seem to use them consistently.

If it is an issue or mentality for whatever reason then that is a weakness and will hold him back from being a great player. Shame, as he could be vital to our team and he comes across as a decent man.

Branthwaite, to compare yet again, is growing into a solid defender, never shirks and has even started showing leadership at the back. Not empty gestures to the fans.

Different players, but he was only 24 when he played for us in a very poor Everton team.

He went on to win several Serie A titles, the Champions League and the World Cup.

A very temperamental player as I recall. Sent off several times and then the infamous winding up of Zidane in the World Cup Final. Quite a character.

American sports lend themselves to stat analysis because "plays" tend to be instantaneous and data meaningful unlike the prolonged passages of play in footy where umpteen immeasurable nuances are In effect.

How do you gauge the number of times a defender takes a step that makes the opposition player change his pass or the midfielder who drifts wide to pull his oppo out of position so his mate can play a killer through ball?

Stats can give a general picture of things in togger but can never replace the eyes and good judgement.

Onana is a work in progress.

Just been reading about Doucoure's fantastic stats on another thread, Strangely enough, I can guarantee you that they will not be lining up around the block trying to sign him.

Stats or xG and other such figures that clutter the heads of so many commentators are only ever based on somebody's opinion – or worse still, a computer.

Why would the opinion of somebody sitting in an office compiling stats without regard for circumstances carry more weight than an experienced fan? Who decides what is a good, easy, or difficult chance?

How can we take figures on things like "pass completion" seriously when a clumsy journeyman who abdicates his responsibility by simply giving it to a braver more gifted player two yards away ends up with better stats because he doesn't try to split defences?

If I was an owner, I would ask someone like Dave Abrahams to manage my team before anyone who either compiles or trusts these bizarre figures. At least I know that the air-con was fucked if I walked into his office and caught him online looking for an "air blocker filter man".

Your point about stats and US sports is a very good one. Basketball, baseball and American football have used stats for decades to delineate individual success and failure, and most of those metrics are still the ones being used today. And such stats are often quite black and white (eg, hit or miss, completion or incompletion, pass-play or run-play).

In relation to football, and how to judge a player, I think stats are interesting, especially how they can highlight deficiencies and/or efficiencies in a player that are not immediately obvious. But anyone who played the game to a high level is probably going to trust their eyes over anything else.

It's the same in any field; if you have worked to achieve some level of expertise, then I suspect you are more likely to trust your own judgement. And while stats always say the same thing (although interpretations may vary), everyone's eyes are different. That's why recruitment is so difficult.

But the reality is that human eyes and thoughts are faulty in so many ways. Any first-year psychologist will be able to list a variety of experiments that demonstrate the many biases and perceptual errors we are prone to.

Good statistics should help cut through such subjectivity and pretty much every top scouting department in the world now will be using a combination of well chosen or sourced statistics and the evidence of their own eyes.

- Caiceido
- Buonanotte
- Barco
- Enciso
- Adingra
- Mitoma

Etc etc.

It's exactly the same sort of science that commodity and stock traders use to find value in a crowded market - where extremely experienced investment managers are pleased to embrace stats and data analytics to support decision-making.

I don't think football players occupy some special category that means they can't be effectively analysed using data and statistics.

Of course, a scout might spot "decent but cheap" before they're flagged in any stats?? Or are they all pretty much captured in the stats anyway?

But it can scour a much, much bigger pool of players and it can also reveal things about players that have gone unnoticed.

Or identify characteristics of players which don't work in one particular team / tactical set-up – but may be a good fit for another. That is how it is being used.

£30M don't get you much? It does if you have people who can spot a player. Wharton at Palace, Rodgers at Villa, probably never cost £30M between them. And it wasn't that long ago that £30M bought Mo Salah.

£30M might not be much for some managers; give it to others and they will improve your team greatly.

Money can make you lazy, apparently, especially when you get offered a seat on the board.

Let's hope some mug buys him and we make our money back!!

We can do a lot better finding a replacement in this country.

Thanks, guys. Your feedback and thoughts regarding my post are very much appreciated.

I try to offer observations, facts and opinions that are accurate, relevant and believable. And/or food for thought. Okay, on the odd occasion, I will make a quip but I tend to say so.

To clarify my point about our 5* midfielder: £33M is what we paid for him. He was 20. I think it wasn't unreasonable for most fans to believe that, whoever this guy is, he must be of the ilk of De Bruyne at 20 coz we are so deep in it financially. Expectations were stratospheric. The reality is we are Everton. The numbers, nor the player, never adds up.

As for the comedy Euros, my concern is that, in wanting to "put himself in the shop window" he will go and do a Gazza. Flinging himself into stupid challanges (for which he has a tendancy). Bust or snap something important and be crippled for the transfer window.

It seems he is leaving come what may. We are bereft everywhere and particularly in central midfield. If he goes, we are left with two.

With no talent coming through the academy and no money to spend (even if we got a huge fee for him), we are gonna be needing to urgently add numbers. So I foresee Dyche & Thelwell dusting off the same Almanac Ashley Young was selected from.

That's not a well thought-out comment in fairness mate.

Coleman, Mykolenko and if we go back, Arteta and Lukaku. Amokachi who got us to a cup final that we won.

Make your point about the individual, but I'd lay off the ‘foreign waste of space' comment personally. Many foreign players have contributed to Everton as they have and do in many teams.

I don't care where a player comes from as long as they perform.

Once he goes to a good side, he will start showing just how good he really is.

Personally I get the feeling, and it's only my opinion, from watching him, week-in & week-out, is that he feels he's maybe too good for us and that he believes he's destined for better things.

With that in mind, I can't understand why he doesn't "shine", week-in & week-out, and seems to pick when to put in that 100% effort that Dyche requires.

I know some have pointed out that he's only 22 but Bellingham is 20 and has just had a season that dreams are made of. Our best player in a generation was 18 when he was showing that he was the best player at the club, and beyond.

I guess players mature at different ages and stages and for me he seems a bit immature at present.

IMO, he'll go on to be a very good player but he's one that doesn't really suit us in our present predicament.

If we get good money for him, though, perhaps those that continually slag our recruitment might have a good word for them this time.

It just won't happen at Everton by the looks of it.

I'm sure Onana would agree with Paul's assessment but I would love to hear his thoughts on Brian's third paragraph. It's not easy to shine every week, is my own view, and definitely impossible when you're not quite putting the effort in.

Reading this thread, then it seems like Onana.has taken over from our departed chairman with regards to splitting the fanbase but we need him to perform at this summer's Euros and I'm certain every single Evertonian, will be behind him – so good luck, Amadou!

He is the only one of our saleable assets that I wouldn't be bothered to see leave.

I can only hope we look to the lower leagues now (as with Branthwaithe and Stones before him) and take a chance on young British and Irish talent or local lads from our ranks, thus saving us a fair few quid in the months to come.

I'd very much like us to be the go to team for Scottish, Irish and lower league players. It annoyed me when the likes of Hickey, Doig and Ferguson left the SPL for Italy at very low prices. Ideal for us.

And it annoys me to see Brighton having scouted Ferguson and Moran from the Irish League. These are markets we've worked well in the past and hopefully will do again.

We can't pretend though that some of the names being mentioned from our own academy or the likes of Shankland are really worthy of a place with us though. Shankland has had a good season but at 28 has surely found his level at Hearts - and has done nothing in Belgium or on the international stage to suggest he's got the quality for the Premier League. I don't think he'd stand out in Championship.

Supplemented with a bit more exotic talent too of course – this seems like a good approach.

Everton beat rivals and win race to snap up Linfield prodigy Braiden Graham — Belfast Telegraph, 25 Nov 2023

Still only 16 (at the time) so you might not see much him for a while. There have been plenty of Irish talents scouted into the youth teams over the years, most recently Sean McAllister and Dylan Graham (no relation to Braiden).

I think this young lad came on, as a sub, in the Irish FA Cup Final last month so he definitely has potential. He might be the first of the new plan to bring young players through the Academy then sell them for huge fees until we get on our feet!

I didn't post anything like ‘£30 million don't get you much'.

I stated it doesn't guarantee anything – especially true for young players with no prior experience of English football – so it shouldn't be quoted as if it does.

It is also sadly true that the high flying clubs can probably get better deals when buying because the players and agents are probably agitating for those moves.

We just don't know how many decent players we have missed out on at reasonable prices because the players had just as good options elsewhere.

We may have been interested in Wharton but we certainly weren't going to be able to bring anyone in mid-season.

We obviously have to sell so I think I am aligned with most that the quickest way to make some cash is to get shot of Onana. He was a business purchase and was always going to be moved along after some development.

Shame we will have to give a sell-on fee to Lille but, if we can bank £55M or so and replace with a loan midfielder, then so be it.

There are plenty of talented players around (as Robert et al frequently remind us) available for buttons, it's just that the competition to sign them is so high.

I've seen enough of Thelwell to trust he knows what he's doing.

Amadou