Everton’s miserable early season continues with cup defeat to Southampton

I hope Dyche purposefully rested players for the kids and squad players, exactly what this comp is for.

Glad we are out of it.

Young on for Beto tells me Dyche doesn't rate or kid in a man's body of a striker either.

Dixon and Armstrong held there own. A few raw, silly mistakes but they will hopefully learn quickly from them.

As for possession stats, they're less meaningful than this cup. But what do people expect, it's what Dyche does.

Frustrate, frustrate, frustrate. A long session ahead!

We made Southampton look like Real Madrid at times.
He's in a death spiral which I don't feel he'll get out of.

"He's in a death spiral which I don't feel he'll get out of."

He will, we might not.

People saying it was a much altered Everton team with many of our better players missing, what do they think that Saints had as they apparently made a number of changes to their starting line-up, yet they could still move the ball around properly for much of the game.

Tonight:

1 Alex McCarthy

6 Taylor Harwood-Bellis

14 James Bree

15 Nathan Wood

21 Charlie Taylor

7 Joe Aribo

10 Adam Lallana

22 Maxwel Cornet

24 Ryan Fraser

26 Lesley Ugochukwu

9 Adam Armstrong

Saturday:

30 Aaron Ramsdale

2 Kyle Walker-Peters

5 Jack Stephens

16 Yukinari Sugawara

35 Jan Bednarek

4 Flynn Downes

18 Mateus Fernandes

26 Lesley Ugochukwu

17 Ben Brereton

19 Cameron Archer

33 Tyler Dibling

I have no idea who was fit, ill or unavailable for this one, but the utter lack of shape, strategy or control, at home, says to me that the dressing room has lost all belief in the manager. To sub a striker after 60mins with a full back was plain stupid and Goodison Park let Dyche know it. I think he is finished. I think he knows it too. No longer a case of if but when. He deserves the plaudits for keeping us up, but he has only ever bought us time, I think it's run out for Sean Dyche.

He can justifiably point to players sales, off pitch noise and the paucity of quality replacements, but it his failure to change, adapt style or players positional, that is inexplicable. His plan isn't working but there is no plan B. I hope a new owner comes with an alternative plan, I hope it's quick because the longer this goes on the worse it's going to get.

Stained by failure in the typical Everton fashion, destroyed by a manager so negative he probably steps backwards before going in his own front door.

Oh well, I suppose it would have been even worse to go out on pens to Barrow?

Sympathy for Young. Whether you rate him or not and no matter how experienced, he is still a human being.

Interesting comment from Dyche afterwards saying people should be free to express themselves. Really? Even when their psyche bypasses wisdom or any level of empathy?

I wonder if Young would have missed that pen if he hadn’t been affected by the booing when he came on?

That sums it up :)

I don't think possession stats are all that relevant in some cases. It's what you do with it that matters. Southampton did control the play and the number of completed passes will show Southampton had far more than us but were mostly going knowhere.

Having said that we were so poor to watch. I watched the match on Sky so don't get to see the whole picture with off the ball movement etc...but some players seemed to get frustrated at their attempts to create something. At one point in the second half Lindstrom went on one mazy run, lost the ball and stopped and started walking back.

No shape, midfield looked all over the place. Don't think you can blame the forwards too much. They're probably as frustrated as the fans with the lack of service. Whilst it's down to them to create stuff themselves, it must be hard playing in this current set up.

Usually with Sean Dyche, players follow his 'minimum requirement is maximum effort' mantra but there is very little evidence of that at the moment.

I've got time for Sean Dyche but he's losing his way just like our other recent managers did. I believe we have decent players capable of performing.

I imagine the overall malaise at the club is taking its toll on the management and players. It's taking its toll on supporters. Whilst only a cup game and in midweek, it attracted a 33k crowd. I would have thought given the significance of the match in terms of possibly being last League Cuo game at Goodison, ther would have beem a higher attendance.

I'm surprised the club didn't open that up for home supporters. With the prices, an ideal opportunity for those who don't get to go often the chance to attend.

I haven't seen Leicester on sale yet, but presume it will sold out quicker than Usain Bolt.

I agree with the substitution, it was to get Ndiaye and McNeil further forward.

We were wasteful in possession and allowed Southampton to control possession.

Penalties are great when they go your way, but a horrible way to go out when they don't.

I'll never slate any player for missing a penalty. Young's came off the post.

His stubborn continuance, to keep playing under-performers and weak links will take it's toll sooner rather than later. Then there's the confidence factor, or lack of confidence altogether. Sorry but Dyche has to be sacked and soon.

The tea-lady (Sorry Mavis) would do better than Dyche and be able to get a tune out of a very limited squad.

Speaks volumes to me that.

I don't think anyone can blame fans for discontent, it's not even so much about last night, losing or just that one substitute.

It's about 5 wins since the middle of December, basically apart from one purple patch in April, we've been appalling, our win ratio under this manager means the fans are never far away from turning.

Last night we started seeing just how unhappy many are with this offing.

It just all seems very flat this season, with a lack of any real ownership or leadership in an environment and team, begging for some (sigh).

I'm starting to see the old managerial 'Not If, But When' momentum building up...like it has, sadly, many times before.
We're one Watford type game were we go from 'yep we're pretty shite' to 'absolutely shite.'

But, as has been said these are not normal times.

Thelwell & Chong; Get a replacement lined up, sack the 3 Stooges, tell they can whistle for their Compo, take a number and get in line behind all the other unsecured creditors

Everton since the Watford debacle we've been in relegation trouble. It can hardly be described as having been fun since then.

It might be that the jig is finally up.

I'm feeling pretty sick myself, tbh.

Use him as a Draught Excluder only in training, please, from now on.

When will the misery end!?

Dyche is the same. He's done probably a better or worse job than the long list before him. The fanbase had accepted that his brand if football was a necessary evil to get the club through to the new stadium, when cash could help a depleted squad.

But it can't go on. 5 wins in a year, and the last away win in over 12 months. 4 Premier League defeats and 13 goals conceded. The squad isn't fit, it looks devoid of doing anything off the training ground.

Last night is probably the poorest I've seen us play in decades. Southampton are a poor side, and yet they played like world beaters.

Young for Beto on 62 minutes was the ultimate demonstration of his coward football. Young, Michael Keane – he just keeps going back to the well of shirtless.

Dyche out, and take your shit backroom staff with you.

I never like "I don't give a flying carp about the league cup - Glad we are out of it." And as for possession stats, they're less meaningful than this cup.

I dare you Justin to walk into the Winslow and say that… but of course you never would because you're at home on a keyboard. I dare you to say that to Rob Halligan, Danny O'Neill, Neil Copeland, Bill Watson, Dave Williams etc., but that would mean meeting them in the flesh, not on your yellow keyboard.

I think that maybe 99/100 ToffeeWebbers would kill to see us win the League Cup. Not one of them gives a shit about your pitiful doggerel. But hey, congrats, you got on at #1 with your carp post lad.

While you're at it, take the time to put this into English for us - I never like I don't give a flying carp about the league cup

Would I get a ban eds/mods if I end this with 'knobhead'?

I see the merit in both your points, but I think the crowd reaction was far more significant than the substitution itself.
That wasn't just a few grumbles of discontent. I saw it as a huge section of the crowd saying "Enough is enough".

They were telling him in no uncertain terms that they were no longer behind him. The cameras homing in on Beto and Doucoure clearly bitching after being hauled off would suggest he is losing the players too — although neither deserved to stay on.

We seem to be lurching from one must-win game to another, but we are not winning any of them. Every single game seems to be even more important than the last one. The stress is killing.

"Inevitably we wanted to win the game and we haven't done. After piecing together a team this morning, with three players going down ill overnight, I think we have given as good as we can get."

What chance have we got?

Paul, I'd love to win the League Cup. Not just so it puts my demons to rest that we've never won it, but it provides a trip to Wembley and European qualification, which can lead to a springboard to better things.

FA Cup it is then.

Also if the ownership isn't sorted soon we will be too far adrift to remain in this division

It also means that the league games come with almost unbearable pressure for everyone. If we lose to Leicester then his whole judgement is called into question and people will ask why we passed up an opportunity to win a league cup game (and build some confidence) to falter (again) in the league.

Fans are not stupid - they know when it makes no sense. They don't go to the Old Lady just to boo players for the sake of it.

Ashley Young is a symptom of lazy and frightened thinking. Play Dixon and Lindstrøm on the right for the rest of the season- build a partnership/understanding - they showed more purposeful attacking intent in 20mins than I have seen in the last 42 games when Harrison + A N Other play together. You could tell the other players were shocked as they sprinted to try and keep up with play.

Being a Blue is fucking hard work these days

Beto wasn’t playing well but he simply had to stay on the pitch because he just had to, and although I could maybe understand what the manager was trying to do with regards the way he tried to shuffle it around, but once you lose that physical presence up front, you are just killing your team imo.

I’ve been having to manage my son’s under eleven team and they were playing last week and drawing 2-2. The forward had stopped working hard and because you are supposed to try and alter the subs to give the players equal game time, it was time for him to come off. I just couldn’t do it because we never had another proper forward to replace him, and two minutes from time the kid bulldozed his way through and scored, to make it 3-2, and a minute later he forced a mistake from a defender and the kids ended up winning 4-2.

I thought Lindstrom should have squared it to Beto for an easy finish and he should have kept his composure when clean through, but watching last night it’s obvious he’s not a wide player, and he’s another wide player who needs to play inside

What are you talking about lad?

I would absolutely love us to win this cup. The fact that we haven’t in our history irks me. The cup is a way into Europe, something that can actually help change the direction of a club. A good performance and result could have acted as a confidence builder going into Saturday.

Do you think 30,000 blues turn up for a laugh, it would have been close to yet another full house if Southampton had bothered.

The Italian club have three draws and a defeat in their opening four Serie A games of the new campaign, and it has cost the 41-year-old his job despite leading them to a sixth-place finish last term.

The news could prove to be bad news for Everton manager Sean Dyche as Friedkin is very much in talks to buy the Goodison Park club.

100%, pretty damn obvious really.

I’ve run out of adjectives to describe Dyches plays now tbh.

The man has sucked the existence out of me.

Lindstrom had a couple of excellent chances which he didnt take and in the first half if he hadnt been so greedy in wanting to score himself if he had rolled the ball sideways it was an empty net for Beto to score. Beto always wants to get into a physical battle and seems to lack basic ball control. I know we were short of players but playing McNeil at full back seemed utter madness, the one thing McNeil hasn't got is pace and to have him up against a pacy winger just didn't make sense. Mangala made his first start for the club, hard to judge on 1 game but he didnt impress, also a first start for Harrison, he did ok but its very hard for a 17 year old to play at this level, unless you are a Rooney et al. Virginia did OK but never got near any of the penalties, but to be fair they were all well taken penalties.

Given our position with the owner in discussions to sell the club, its very hard to imagine any potential managers who would want to come in before the new owner is in place. But seeing it looks like December is the earliest a new owner would be in place, I don't think we can wait that long.

They play like that every week, no matter who they're playing they keep the ball very very well so it's actually not a stat to beat Dyche or our players with.

We lost for many reasons, but that isn't one of them. They've lost all 4 of their PL games with way more possession than every team they've played so it's not really relevant.

We have a 'winnable' set of fixtures coming up though currently this team look like they have the capacity to lose to any team from any position. Last season the results were poor but some of the underlying stats (that decision makers will definitely look at) were encouraging. This season there is zero encouragement to be had at all (apart from perhaps the 87 minutes against Bournemouth).

If Dyche does not turn the corner sharpish I can see him departing in October

McNeil did take a penalty. I agree with Rob though, because Virginia was shit in the shootout. He also looked tiny

Brian, I've criticised Keane in the past and he does worry me. But in fairness, against Villa, aside from his lack of height for their first goal (harsh maybe given Watkins's run), he didn't have that bad a game.

And although it's difficult to tell on TV, he was arguably one of our better players last night.

Just it's an isolated existence being an Everton forward right now, the defenders are put under a lot of pressure.

He is fast running out of redeeming features. No matter what the tactical reason is, bringing Young on is two fingers up to the supporters. The action of a man at the end of his tether.

The FA Cup is a real cup, it's prestigious, shown around the world, and gets teams noticed. Most people can generally list the winners over the past 20 years etc – not unlike the Premier League.

The League Cup, I can't recall who won it last season, never mind the season before. But that's probably just me and my opinion and poor memory of it.

I started with "I don't like losing games". I wish Everton won every game until the end of time, including the League Cup. But, in all honesty, it's never going to happen.

If they scrap the League Cup, I would not miss it. If we won it, I'd celebrate.

As for the two academy products, Harrison Armstrong showed energy and some neat touches. At 17, he looks like a player who could progress in the right setting. Roman Dixon is nowhere near ready for first-team football, especially in a struggling team. He has pace but his tackling is a liability.

I thought the booing of Michael Keane before kick-off was utterly pathetic. Likewise the substitution of Ashley Young for Beto. That change actually helped us control more of the play with Ndiaye and McNeil the players most likely to create a second goal.

Didn't Southampton make 10 changes from Saturday's team – or did I mishear the commentator?

But I wrote that when in a rosy haze of alcohol and nostalgic old days Evertonian, when the "best" bit in Nil Satis Nisi Optimum meant that the Milk / Coca-Cola / League / etc Cup was beneath us.

Of course I want us to win anything to get us back on the board – I was even dead chuffed we won that American pre-season tourny...

But, another 'but', the devastating (not too harsh a word) aspect of last night's defeat was the manner of it. We looked absolutely and utterly devoid of any ideas and bore no resemblance whatsoever to a football team, whether Premier League or Sunday Vets League.

No excuses at the lack of personnel – Southampton didn't play their first team either and they still played us off the park.

As I've said before, Dyche did a "masterclass" video after he somehow beat Liverpool on an off day and made it all about him. Has he made any "masterclass" videos since? I'd dearly love to see his "masterclass" videos of the Bournemouth, Brighton, Chelsea away, last night etc etc. I bet Nuno hasn't released a "masterclass" video of how he (not the team, note) beat the shite at Anfield!

There isn't a "masterclass". There's a "plan" (in the loosest sense of the word) A-minus, and its shit and it's not working.

One last point. On the radio this morning, the sports pundits are still all talking about how Dyche makes teams hard to beat. Personally I think Branthwaite makes Everton hard(er) to beat but that's not my point. When are the pundits going to point out that Dyche makes Everton unlikely to win?

UTFExasperatingT.

I got the sense from watching the game on TV that the booing when Young came on was directed at Dyche? It's hardly Young's fault if he's being picked or sent on in games.

He might be a liability but Everton gave him a contract and the manager keeps picking him, so supporters booing the player are aiming their ire at the wrong man, in my view.

I think the booing was definitely aimed at the decision rather than the player.

I too saw that stat and I am taking it into consideration but it still doesn't excuse the tactics that Dyche used, at home, in a "free-hit" (we won't get relegated on the strength of this defeat) game.

If we'd lost that in normal time after giving it a good go, I personally would feel much more confident for the next few games and for when we get Branthwaite back.

But that was abysmal, cowardly shite.

I wonder how much it contributed to him missing the penalty?

On top of that, we have too many injuries and too much illness in the club right now to be anything other than dreadful.

Like all of us, I hope we stay up but, like most of us, I think we need to start planning for the Championship and a total rebuild in the new stadium.

Hopefully, and it is only hope that sustains us, we will have a new owner who knows what he's doing and can put together a 3-year plan to get us back to the heights to which we all aspire, playing decent football and challenging for Europe.

It's going to be a long, miserable season, but I'm just going to try to enjoy my last games at Goodison as best as I can.

I watch quite a few of the reality sports documentaries such as Sunderland Till I Die and Mission to Burnley. The chaos and lack of leadership, no visible owner etc etc off the pitch will ultimately manifest itself on the pitch. Dont know why but it always does.

Everton FC is a basket case, until the ownership is resolved it will continue to fail and disappoint/frustrate.

Any other club and the manager would be dismissed, but who is there to make that decision and organise severence? Who will choose and sign off on a new manager and agree monies? Who would take a job when there is no owner as the new guy is likely to bring his own choice in?

I only see Moyes on a short term with bonus to keep them up similar to Allardyce if someone, somewhere, whoever, whenever sacks Dyche.

It's a farce, they don't deserve the support.

Easy to say 3 wins would put us back in there, but I can't foresee any wins, and the teams who are ahead of us, all of them btw, are not going to backpaddle to allow us to catch up, so the gap will become a chasm!

As for Ashley Young, the manager is obviously going to try and justify the 1-year extension by selecting the player as often as possible. Coleman too would be in the starting line-up if he was fit and available.

It was lazy management by Thelwell and Dyche to give those two players another year, I can't believe that there are no younger players good enough in the lower leagues or beyond, who might have been bought to the club on similar wages. We don't need star players as full-backs, we just need reliable, capable players who can defend. After all, we're not trying to make Europe, we're aiming for 17th place.

I'm glad I was at Monchengladbach game.

I teach English but I'm truly gobsmacked. As my words fade, my feelings of dread for our beloved club increase.

A man of action.

There are no academy products ready to play at Premier League level. There is no money to sign better players to join us from other clubs.

We were linked with at least three full-backs in the summer; Killian Sardella at Anderlecht, Ángelo Preciado at Sparta Prague and of course Kieran Trippier. Such is our financial plight we were unable to tempt their clubs to sell them – even if the players themselves could be persuaded to move to a struggling club.

I do call it lazy management. Dyche prefers old war-horses to up and coming youngsters; I hope he's proven correct in the final analysis, but I have my doubts.

What was wrong? Injuries, illness, a complete lack of credible tactics, mismanagement, the absence of any kind of structure or learning from Finch Farm. Do they actually get together?

We are stuck with it now. Our league position will mean that players will be playing with fear, that transmits to the fans who simply shrug their shoulders at the inevitability of the outcomes.

Living a 1-hour drive away just prolongs the agony, especially when Highways decide to complete roadworks, simply adding to the journey. I sit next to a guy who drives to the game from Lincoln… my God, what a life he must lead. My son, who couldn't make it last night, describes his week as ‘fucked' now. I know what he means.

The major problem has now become that journeys into Goodison, more often than not by train, are tortuous. An early start around 9:30 am for a 3:00 pm kick-off are not filled, as they used to be, with optimism and excitement. I no longer smile. Return journeys are, more often than not, worse. A wasted day.

Every team can lose football matches, it is what makes it the beautiful game, but this is just desperate. I no longer look forward to it, this club has broken me with its ineptitude.

In the twilight of my life, having survived a quadruple by-pass 3 years ago, I had hoped for better during my retirement but Everton Football Club have this uncanny knack of confounding all logic.

Benitez ridding us of Rodriguez and Digne, the managers who bought Rod Belfitt, Bernie Wright… the list goes on, those who sold Ball, Arteta etc.

Dyche with his complete lack of game management, Mike Walker; do you remember him?? Beating West Ham with a Gary Ablett goal to secure our first win of the 94-95 season. Consider this, the most successful manager over the last 10 years, Martinez's European charge excepted, is Sam Allardyce!

I've had good times: on a coach being waved off to Rotterdam by Alex Parker from Runcorn Shopping City; crying my eyes out driving on the M62 as the final whistle blew against Wimbledon; watching us play Liverpool off the park last April; Bayern Munich… wow!!! Battering Man Utd 5-0 in 1984-85 season – just for the style of football we played. I could go on…

Right now, I've had enough. Reading ToffeeWeb should be part of the players' contract. I wouldn't blame anyone choosing to skip my post but I needed to get this off my chest.

See you Saturday! COYB.

For me, the change made sense. Dyche has been criticised for not having a Plan B. Last night, he had one. Beto was cutting an increasingly forlorn figure up front, getting no joy holding the ball up and making it difficult for the team to move up the field as a unit.

Our two players who looked most likely to create something in open play were McNeil and Ndiaye. Moving the two of them into central areas was our best option and helped the team obtain more control further up the pitch.

In any event, the booing is counterproductive, undermines our players, and boosts the opposition. In difficult times, our team needs the crowd on its side. We need to stick with the team and (for the time being) the manager.

I believe you are correct to say that the presence of Branthwaite makes us harder to beat – but we still lost plenty of games last season with him in the side, so he won't solve the problem single-handedly – and he's had no pre-season.

Tarkowski has come in for a bit of criticism of late, but I suspect he isn't fully fit either.

One who will teach our players that the ball is their friend. Who will teach them that when one presses, they all press, Who will teach them to pass and move and most importantly, keep the ball on the ground as much as possible.

That coach is not Dyche. At the moment, we are a 21st Century team playing Victorian football.

Another 29% possession at home and we had no game plan whatsoever. Something is drastically wrong and Dyche won't change formation. We've lost 5 games in a row, and he still plays 4-4-1-1 with 2 in midfield, it's killing us.

I understood what Dyche was trying to do, but I would have looked to get Lindstrom inside and closer to the play. I still believe that, for Everton to improve, we have got to get our decent footballers a lot closer to each other and also the centre-forward.

I couldn't understand how little fight we had in us at 1-1 with penalties looming. Does Dyche not know our record in penalty shootouts?

I agree with other posters that Michael Keane was okay last night and the booing was out of order but the problem with him is that he makes the other players and, crucially, the crowd jittery and that permeates through the team.

Lindstrom looks another player who gets into good positions but is so wasteful. He never gets his head up. Jack Harrison is another. Gets into a good position and then just flashes it across goal rather than picking someone out. Iwobi used to be the same. I've lost count of how many wingers we've had like that down the years.

What does McNeil's two-handed signal mean on corners? Is it code for "I'm going to put it too close to the keeper again"? Lindstrom took a corner in the first half that rolled to the feet of the defender on the near post. That's criminal. You wouldn't see that in a schoolboys' match.

The other issue I have is Goodison Park. It is becoming a massive negative for our team. Ever since the Covid season under Ancelotti, our home form has been abysmal. In recent seasons we've picked up around spring time but we can't rely on that each season.

I don't know what it is but the players just shrink and can't handle it. A few mistakes makes the crowd jittery and the away team pick up on this. You can see the jitters spreading throughout the team. That was evident as soon as Bournemouth got one back.

We never have a player that can grab hold of the team and raise our levels and reverse the inevitable. I'll miss Goodison enormously but I think away teams can smell blood when playing us at home.

Historically, our away form isn't good and so, stating the bleeding obvious, if we can't make Goodison a fortress then we're gonna be in the mix for relegation.

I've been in the camp that Dyche has done a good job keeping us up despite the issues but I'm changing my opinions. I thought we'd at least be hard to beat but we're a pushover at the moment and conceding from set pieces and not stopping crosses.

You can get away with being hard to beat if you get results but, if you go on a losing run and the style of play is turgid, then people are going to start asking questions.

Thing is, who would we get to improve things? I reckon Moyes would come back but for me, he's cut from the same cloth as Dyche.

I've always defended Dyche but sadly I think his time is up. I think with the right system, coaching and tactics we now have players who could compete in the Premier League.

The issue is finding and implementing the system to suit our players. I can't believe Beto is as bad as he looks playing for us, it was the same with Maupay. We just seem to ruin players and destroy their confidence.

I do know that 29% possession at home isn't the answer.

We have the most uninspired manager incapable of showing any creative thinking, who blames his players when things go wrong. All we can hope for is survival, then hope our fortunes change with the new ownership and new stadium.

If our exit from the League Cup helps our survival in the Premier League, so be it.

Harrison Armstrong didn't seem to impose himself on the game as much as I hoped he would, but that might have been because the opposition was like a Poundshop Man City, passing, passing and passing some more, so our midfield spent most of the time running around in a generally fruitless attempt at closing down their players.

On the signings, O'Brien did okay I thought, though again looked raw. Mangala did the Gana Gueye job very well and will probably find himself first choice more often than not.

Ndiaye has bags of talent and is very exciting but, again, spent so much energy running around trying to close down. He's gonna be a fan favourite for sure.

Lindstrom – least said the better. He's not suited for the Premier League. I can't see him getting much game time except as a sub maybe.

Alex Parker who used to have the ' Swinging Sporran ' in the Shopping City Runcorn, I met him many times as a young husband doing the wife a favour and getting the shopping in. She always thought it was because I was crap at shopping that it took me so long, and often wondered why my breath smelt a mixture of beer and polo mints !

You are NOT alone my friend, and I concur that this IS Everton at it's lowest ebb, and possibly the worst it has been mismanaged. Initially I backed Dyche because he had inherited a crock of shit, courtesy of the Maggot and Moshiri, but I'm afraid it has gone past that now.

He would garner some modicum of respect, IF he actually admitted that he had ' cocked up, with team selections and substitutes ' but NO he is that arrogant and stubborn he actually believes he is doing as best a job as he can with what is available.

I only lived in Runcorn for about 18 months, before moving to Penketh, near Warrington as I worked at Fiddler's Ferry Power Station. Would love to have a pre-match pint with you mate, although I don't go to every home game any longer, but used to be a S T holder in Upper Bullens.

When I do go, I always go to the Harlech on County Road (opposite KFC) as a decent venue close to the ground and a good bunch of Blues meet up there. Take care mate, you are not alone, and I/we hope something happens, like yesterday, as far as new ownership and proper management is in place !

I also agree that players and managers alike should read the fan sites, to gauge the feeling of the fans, and not just going through the motions with little or no emotional attachment to the shirt or those paying to watch them ' entertain ? '.

Calvert-Lewin
Broja
Chermiti
Garner
Gana
Mykolenko
Coleman
Patterson
Tarkowski
Branthwaite

And for a squad that has been stripped of our best players year-on-year, the non-availability of these players meant that there was very little Dyche could have done differently.

I too wish for a proper ‘footballing’ manager (we had 2 of them in the past, remember ? Martinez and Silva), but in the absense of leadership at the top, he would become unstuck just as the 7-8 we have had recently. For the present, we just have to hope that Dyche steers us through this sticky patch and he is aided by some luck with players returning from sickness/injury.

For those who think Dyche has absolutely no footballing nous, I would urge them to replay the 30-45 seconds before the Calvert-Lewin 1-on-1 chance that went abegging last Saturday. There was a sequence of about 8-10 short, crisp passes played in midfield that led to the final one to DCL. If he had scored that, it might have been a contender for our goal of the season.

Nothing in his time has he improved the style of play its very negative and the attackers he picks are largely isolated from the rest of the team, he has his 2 in central midfield who are asked to cover acres of ground playing in most cases against a 3 in midfield, no wonder they start to tire around the 80 minute mark. When we do attack there is usually only 1 or 2 men in the opponents box, so very few options to hit. Even Brentford last week had 5 players regularly in Citys box when the attacked.

The football under Dyche has been awful since he arrived, and yet he still persists with the same system that doesn't make watching Everton enjoyable. I have no idea if Moshiri will pull the plug or whether he will hope that he can sell the club before we could come adrift from the 4th from bottom club, and leave that problem to the new owners.

That is what we have come down to now. 30-45 seconds of a 90+minutes game.

The statistic that burns a hole in my heart is over 70% possession allowed nay encouraged to the opposition especially at home against sides we should be dominating.

I am sick of making excuses for Sean Dyche for his team selections, his tactics and his arrogant obstinate manner. He reminds me so much of Martinez in that he dismisses supporters' views and maintains that he is the only one who knows how to run a football club and it is all the players or supporters fault when it doesn't work.

I used to call Burnley an Alehouse team when he was there but did see some green shoots of hope last season but I have now lost all faith in him. He is the weakest link!!

Southampton played 11 players that did not feature in their last league game!!!

Come on mate, how many times are we going to make excuses.

That was one of the biggest piles of shite I have ever witnessed against a fellow relegation team that was almost unrecognisable from their first choice Premier League line-up.

Whatever you think of Dyche, surely you must acknowledge now that his time is well and truly up. The only reason he is still here is that Moshiri is hoping he can sell the club first and avoid paying any compensation. The man is a complete wreck.

Does anyone have a suitable replacement for Dyche in mind? And I mean someone who is available and who can take this basket case of a club forward.

Please, don't say Moyes.

On a related note, Roma (owned by Friedkin) have just sacked their manager De Rossi after he failed to win any of their opening 4 games (3 draws and a loss).

If Dyche were to get sacked, one of the managers who I would like to see seriously considered would be the Aberdeen manager - Jimmy Thelin. He is beginning to turn heads in the footballing world,

Pressing, passing & elite coaching — Thelin's Aberdeen revolution

As we wallow in seemingly never ending anguish, there is one small positive to take. It must be dawning on not just Moshiri but also our various creditors that relegation is beyond just a risk, it is becoming dangerously close to being a probability and that would mean everyone's idea of the value of their debt and shares would require an urgent re-appraisal, steeply downwards.

At this point, only a new owner can take the necessary steps to mitigate this risk so maybe, just maybe, there will be a bit more pressure to break the impasse we have drifted towards.

The one problem here is that the current bidder has his own constraint, needing a buyer for his Palace shares. Since other bids have collapsed without this complication, that certainly isn't helpful, but it might just raise interest from previous bidders. Maybe there is more motivation among all parties to consider the need for the type of haircut Friedkin wanted to apply. The alternative might be baldness...

I would say Moyes but only until the end of the season (with a bumper bonus for keeping us in the division as an added incentive) then I would go for someone like Carlos Corberan longer term to take us into BMD.

Dyche is now 5 wins out of 27 in 2024 which I believe is a worse win record than any club David Moyes has ever managed including relegated Sunderland.

Moyes would get a short-term tune out of this lot, he did twice in two seperate stints at West Ham.

I hate it when posters disclaim football knowledge of others... but this comes perilously close.

I shouldn't need to point out that McNeil started the game in one of Young's normal positions. And when Young came on, McNeil vacated that position and moved up front, where Beto had been.

So – and it seems this is the tricky bit for us football fans to comprehend – Young replaced McNeil, and McNeil replaced Beto.

But the overwhelming compunction to boo Dyche for "bringing on Young in place of Beto" seems destined to defy any vestige of football logic in the move.

Evertonians — the best fans in the world?

Start packing your bags.

I agree to a certain extent on the Goodison factor, the players do seem very nervous playing at home and the opposition can smell blood.

Moyes is cut from the same cloth but much better.

Fact: Dyche has credit to stay in the Everton hotel until it is sold.

Granted we haven't got the best squad in the Premier League but you would hope and think that a better coach would be able to get this bunch to actually play better than they are at this moment in time.

I hope and pray that the team starts to pick up points very soon or else we are up Shit Creek. Unfortunately, Mr Dyche looks lost as to what to do.

What an absolute mess we have become under the odd couple of Moshiri and the late Kenwright. You couldn't make the fucker up. Oh, I forgot, it's Everton we are talking about. Get your shit together, lads, for god's sake.

So we can agree it didn't work but a few of us believe we can see what the manager hoped to achieve with that substitution (and it wasn't just shutting up shop and holding on for penalties)?

Ajay makes a valid point, whether it was the manager's choice, illness or injury, if you look at that list, it would have made a difference.

In terms of worst team, and I can only go off my lifetime, despite the scrape we're in now, and those we've been in the past few seasons, nothing surpasses the '94 and '98 teams that missed relegation by the narrowest of margins.

Onto Leicester. A few results and it will feel better by Christmas and then the FA Cup to look forward to.

Meanwhile, the club needs to resolve the ownership issue. That is going to dictate the direction we move in and any managerial situation. Right now, we go with what we've got. The important thing is to get points on the board.

The ownership issue for now is a separate issue. We all want it resolving sooner rather than later so the club can be rid of the remnants of this regime and move forward.

It's gone, it was dreadful to watch, but we still had the much better chances and therefore should have won the game, even though we didn't deserve to.

I've been wracking my brain since before the season started, trying to think of our best formation, and Branthwaite has been a massive loss.

I just think it's imperative that we start getting our better players closer to both the centre-forward and also closer to the other better players, and we have got to find a system that hopefully allows this to start happening very quickly.

I have always maintained I can reluctantly accept defeat if the players have given their all, we have been beaten by a better side on the day, or sadly been the victims of wrong decisions or disallowed goals, later proven to be legitimate.

Since the start of this season and pre-season too, there has been little evidence of pride in the shirt, the will to win, and determination or application to the final whistle!

It was good to see that Dyche actually tried to move things around to try to get the team working better together but, in general, we still played with a defensive set-up and tried to catch Southampton on the break.

As with most English managers, his first priority is always going to be defence, which at the moment is not working because teams know they have free reign to attack us even at home.

The only way to get out of this nightmare is to set up as an attacking formation to start with and put some pressure on the opposition defence. Then get Dixon, O'Brien and Branthwaite in the team so we have some speed at the back and we can then press higher up.

I can't see it happening with Dyche so hopefully a takeover is not far off followed by a new foreign manager.

Bound to be sold out faster than Oasis tickets!

Granted he did okay at West Ham, but look at what he did before then and after he left Goodison Park.

Whatever the thinking behind Dyche's substitution was, it appeared admittedly at first, that he was replacing an attacker with a defender and it was a purely spontaneous reaction by frustrated fans.

None of us agrees with booing our players under any circumstance but the miserable performance on the pitch was exasperating for even the most patient of fans, hence the boos.

You would have logically thought that Bournemouth would have been imprinted in the memory as a never to be repeated substitution, or similar with different personnel, but No! It almost beggars belief.

Our squad is less balanced – some new players are perhaps developing the right way – with key players unavailable. We gifted them a goal and yet still should have won last night (if the players had been able to link their play and support the breaks better).

We were all embarrassed by the Bournemouth game but I thought the manager (despite his resistant words) has tried to do things a bit differently since then. Last night, I wanted Ndiaye to get more involved and the substitutions allowed that to happen. I thought Ndiaye being more on the ball in the middle would give us more overall in the last quarter than the Beto - Doucoure system.

Yes, it still didn't all quite gel but we supporters need to get rid of the too simple Pavlov dog like reactions that simply won't help the team in any way.

Loads are saying Dyche isn't very good at doing his job; I can't disagree at the moment but this dickhead of a newsman is useless or a Rednose taking the piss.

I think the crowd were booing Dyche, not Young, when he came on. Whoever they were booing, I think Young had a good game.

Nice bit of condescension there MK (!), but it's completely misplaced on this occasion. Perhaps some of the crowd were booing Young? I don't know. But what is clear is that the booing was directed for the most part at Dyche and taking off Beto.

Even Dyche, for once, said something sensible in his post-match random drivel to admit this:

"My gut feeling probably Beto being withdrawn only the fans will know really".

Quality posts Justin Doone (48) and Colin Bell (66).

Tony, he may not have the finesse, but Beto was a handful for the Southampton defence when we did get forward. But to your previous, we don't get close enough to our forward players enough.

Maybe Moyes would be a short-term answer, but I can't bring myself to consider him back at Goodison, and because Boys Pen Bill is no longer an influence, I don't think it will happen.

It's all down to the new owners and I can't see whoever it is wanting to roll things back to Moyes.

Can I just say that, in 70 years of going to Goodison, I have never booed an Everton player or left a game before the final whistle. But I think for an editor of an Everton fan site to criticize our fans who have turned out in their thousands home and away, for booing a substitution which was because of the fact that he was taking off an attacker and replacing him with a defender rather than another forward was what the fans were booing for.

Yes, the move was to allow McNeil to play up alongside Ndaiye, but you have to ask why he didn't start Young at left-back and play McNeil in the No 10 role.

Also, seeing as Dyche's main tactic is to hoof the ball 40 yards to our target man who was now replaced with a 5ft 8ins forward, he was never going to win an aerial battle and had probably never played in that position in his life before.

I also think the match-going fans have had enough of Dyche and his negative tactics, and have now lost complete faith in him, and in my opinion, rightly so.

Yes, criticize fans for booing a player as I did in an earlier post, but not for showing their contempt for Dyche and his tactics.

But I won't leave the ground until every player has left the pitch, regardless of the result.

In a nod back to the mid 70s, you guys attend virtually every game. Surely you must be close to the ‘cushion throwing' stage? Less than 25% possession against Southampton reserves alone merits a reaction surely?

I think it's valid to ask supporters to consider intent when assessing situations rather than just react to memes.

“But you have to ask why he didn't start Young at left back and play McNeil in the 10 role.”

Probably because we are already at lowest ebb with experienced defenders and the hope was we could win it anyway. I wouldn't be surprised if he would have preferred not to use Young at all.

I walked out and was not surprised to see hundreds doing the same. We sat on the 919 bus on Walton Lane in almost total silence. The news that we were knocked out was greeted with resignation.

Last night's gate was 5,000 short of a full house. People are starting to vote with their feet.

If you can show me another set of supporters who have had to put up with as much crap for as long as Evertonians have, and are fully supportive of their team whilst they play rubbish most of the time, I'm all ears.

It really annoys me that the staff and players can't perform to a minimal level at Goodison when we get fairly big crowds most of the time, and I'm currently watching super Brighton in a half-full stadium, scoring great goals and playing proper footy, what would Goodison be like if we could see our team do that?

Jeez, I remember the cushion-throwing scenario. I was at that match, and if memory serves it was Coventry City. Who, oddly enough, I am watching now vs Spurs.

Not a great watch by any stretch, may switch over to Brighton vs Wolves, but I may miss the cushion throwing. :-)

I see plenty of them calling the substitution simply as a defender replacing an attacker, which I, along with MK and a few others, disagree with.

Si, that is what MK said and it would appear that he is "calling the substitution simply as a defender replacing an attacker" and then slapping "Evertonians" across their wrists for booing.

"I shouldn't need to point out that McNeil started the game in one of Young's normal positions. And when Young came on, McNeil vacated that position and moved up front, where Beto had been".

So it seems that, like me, you "disagree" with Michael.

Dyche is a victim of this in many ways – his ideas and tactics are just so different to the way the modern game is played, and the way the modern player wants to play. They appear conflicted on the pitch and I'm not surprised about the rumours of discontent in the squad, if true.

I would love to hear Dyche, Woan and Stone mic'd up on the touchline – they're often in discussion, but the tactics never seem to change, so what exactly are they talking about?

Leicester City away – Sold out
Crystal Palace home – sold out
Newcastle Utd home – sold out.

I hardly think people are starting to vote with their feet.

How anyone can leave as the game went to penalties is absolutely astonishing to me.

I think you hit the nail on the head. The defensive concentration surrenders possession and isolates any centre forward, Beto or Calvert-Lewin. The long punts from Pickford are a complete waste of time if no one is close to him, he cannot win the header, chase the flick, and beat 3 defenders and then score! Yet that's how we are playing!

Calvert-Lewin is excellent at holding a ball up with his back to goal waiting for players to catch up; Beto isn't. The tactics require someone like a Tony Cottee to feed off the main striker; otherwise, the ball comes straight back.

Our possession stats drop like a brick and we are constantly under pressure with no out. They can't score from their penalty area if we have the ball, can they?

I know that the cushion-throwing was common in the late fifties early sixties as a means of voicing disapproval at a poor performance, but if we had had to watch the kind of dross that has been served up for the last few seasons, Goodison would have been razed to the ground. Cushions wouldn't have been an option!

If we had a good start to the season it would have been a full house last night and home fans would have taken the empty Upper Visitors.

In my usual seat, I was surrounded by strangers, only about 20% of my fellow STH's were there and most live locally.

Our league games sell out because of the high number of STH's. 5,000 empty seats at a cup game tells its own story.

Those of us commenting after the game did see the tactical change but didn't agree with it. I called it for what it was, McNeil isn't a centre-forward and we immediately lost an aerial threat up front with the change.

As to a physical one, Beto is a handful; McNeil can finish but he is in no way a physical threat to centre-backs. The change would have made more sense playing McNeil alongside or behind Beto, that's why I saw it as stupid.

If it's true that Everton only had possession for a quarter of the game, but made at least double the chances Southampton did, then it's why I believe that these stats are somewhat meaningless at times.

I was only watching at home but I thought Ndiaye never really pushed onto the last Southampton defender, and once he started going deeper, you could see the confidence levels grow in their centre-backs.

The game was like a practice match and did nothing to ease the fans' lack of confidence in the squad – but we have got to keep believing… even though there is very little belief.

Sold out home and away every week and those fortunate enough to get in are just that, fortunate. If you don't want to go, give up your ticket to someone who does. There are plenty who do want to.

Your last paragraph sums it up, Tony.

See you all at Leicester.

Possession is fine for Man City with their top quality players. Southampton may have more possession in most games this season; let's see how they get on this year!

We all see the game slightly differently. During the 2nd half, the defence did step up a few yards and we pressed slightly higher up the pitch. Beto and Ndiaye never stopped doing doggies across the pitch without either centre-mid putting pressure on the opposition which resulted in an easy pass into midfield.

Lindstrom, although wasteful, at least got in good positions so that's a small positive, the lad can also deliver a decent cross, which Calvert-Lewin will like.

We are missing Branthwaite, Coleman and Mykolenko from the successful defensive unit from last season. Like it or not, we are missing the defensive duties of Onana and squad depth of Gomes.

The players haven't thrown the towel in, they are still fighting for the shirt. We were always going to struggle this season, 4th from bottom is the target again I am afraid.

Mike @128, You could hire cushions in the Bullens Road stand, it was a treat on a cold night to sit on one.

Brighton's attendance was more or less half their capacity and there was a very good turn-out by Wolves fans.

33,842 is more than decent. It is in fact a very good crowd for a League Cup game that normally has significantly smaller crowds than for Premier League games.

You're talking absolute rubbish, Allen, and for the life of me, I cannot understand why someone who supports us would want to go to the lengths that you do on your utterly misguided and ill-informed rant to - what? - drag Everton down a couple of pegs.

I note that you also signally failed to include the issue of low turnout from Southampton but that does not fit into your narrative does it?

Your missing 5,000 is chasing windmills but you carry on, Allen, in your "me vs the world" heroics.

"Voting with their feet"! Jesus wept. Why don't you thank the the people – the very large number of people – who were at the ground, Allen?

There must have been a reason as to why the Upper Bullens was not made available to home supporters last night, but I don't know what it was? The away allocation for Goodison is around 2,700 supporters, yet Southampton only had about 400 - 500, meaning the away section was down by about 2,200 – nearly half of the 5,000 empty seats.

Just because the attendance was not at full capacity last night doesn't mean fans are starting to vote with their feet. If that were the case, then the few thousand seats that are available to members etc, would remain unsold for every home game.

As soon as these seats are made available, they are snapped up within hours, if not days. As Danny says, the fans of Everton will never vote with their feet.

Some games it was like it was raining cushions – so crowd disaffection is not a new thing.

Blues supporters do not like being served up rubbish.

I read MK's post as him disagreeing that the replacement was simply Young (defender) for Beto (attacker) and him having a poke at those who didn't seem to recognise that it released McNeil from his defensive duties so that he could join the attack with the likes of Harrison, Ndiaye, and Lindstrom.

Are we three not all supporting the same thing; that if people booed the substitution simply because they thought it was a wholly negative / defensive move, then perhaps they should reconsider their ‘intuitive' response?

I was also responding to Brian Harrison (112) who apparently wanted some reason for why Young didn't start the game at left back.

We could solve this with pagers or walkie-talkies. You can get a good deal on Hungarian made Taiwan licensed devices.

I've seen the Blues four times in my life, once against Sydney FC, Western Sydney Wanderers and Celtic respectively in Australia.

I was lucky enough to make my one and only pilgrimage to Goodison in 2015 and was even luckier to see us beat defending champions Chelsea (the Naismith perfect hat trick!). I've often described this as the best day of my life — exceptions being the birth of my children.

But I can only try to understand the frustration and disappointment of the local fans being absolutely suffocated by it.

Onwards to Leicester away and hoping for a much-needed win! I will be up 12 midnight Aussie time cheering the Boys in Blue on.

Too late to stay up, too early to get up… But I do! :-(

Imagine, Christine, if a mate said to you 35 years ago as you were heading towards Spellow Lane that in 35 years time you'll be in New Zealand waking up at 3:30 am to watch the match on something called the internet or satellite TV?

It does mate and yes I've usually had a few beers by then!

I remember watching the football whilst in Liverpool at 3 o'clock on a Saturday afternoon and it feeling such a surreal experience!

I wouldn't mind betting Dyche, or the players for that matter, never have that issue. Then again, they are not true Evertonians are they, more on the mercenary side?

Spot on, the sacred time is 3 pm Saturday. Town for a drink or two, taxi to County Road for a few more. Feck, I miss that.

We probably passed each other a few hundred times or more on Goodison Road, Jimmy.

So, it's lucky that we win more than we lose, right .......

No problem with sleeping at all.

I’m not sure if it was because people were voting with their feet or it was because they just couldn’t be bothered going, which was the case with myself and the two people who both offered me a ticket, but the early season optimism has already disintegrated after five games and Evertonians, are once again getting put through the grinder.

My hat goes off to the fans, who don’t live in the city and sometimes have a very long drive home after watching unadulterated shite, and I tipped my hat to a Saints fan, who I saw when I was driving home from my mothers house on Tuesday night.

I used to do that I thought, and now I can’t even be bothered going to Goodison, but I’m sure I’ll get the bug again because the other half of my brain, loves Everton.

Fans have always voted with their feet none more so than in Kendall’s first time in charge, 16,000 for some league games and just over10, 000 for the league cup tie when the “ Kendall out” pamphlets were distributed, Inthink a lot of Everton fans never returned to watch Everton after that season, the performances rinsed Everton out of their system.

That’s why Dyche has got to change a lot of Bluenoses are up to fuckin’ here with his ultra defensive style even though the squad he has make it necessary, to a degree, but enough is enough for plenty of fans, take Tony, my son, he has never been so apathetic in Everton like this before. Some like me just grin and bear it and even the grin is very thin!

So, as Rob notes, they were 1350 or so short in their end. We got you and two mates who decided not to go. So what? Still a boss turn out in the circumstances - I gave you a lot of comparative figures.

Also noted, that MK has not replied to responses to his #89, 60 posts ago, that are, quite honestly, pretty critical. And that does seem a tad ironic given MK's usual rambunctious robust style.

But, LL/MK, we still love the founding fathers!

Here are the League Cup attendances at Goodison Park, going back rather conveniently to the last time we played Southampton at home in Round 3:

Tue 17 Sep 2024, Southampton – 33,842
Tue 27 Aug 2024, Doncaster – 37,245
Tue 19 Dec 2023, Fulham – 38,715
Wed 1 Nov 2023, Burnley – 38,841
Wed 19 Dec 2019, Leicester – 39,027
Tue 29 Oct 2019, Watford – 34,979
Tue 2 Oct 2018, Southampton – 30,545

I was surprised to see how high these attendances are in recent years, as I thought like Paul that folks simply did not turn out in full numbers for midweek League Cup games but post-Covid, this seems to be less true than it used to be.

If you go back another year, to 2017, we played Sunderland (Wed 20 Sep) in front of only 23,593.

But, in comparison to other opponents, I think you could certainly argue that Southampton is not going to draw a full crowd.

There are of course extenuating circumstances that differ for each game in the context of each season, but I agree that Tony's reluctance to attend on Tuesday may well have been shared by a few hundred or a few thousand others.

Does that mean Evertonians are "voting with their feet"? Perhaps for a few of them, yes.

But does it mean we will now see a significant decline in Premier League attendances, as Allen implies? I think not (although there is always some variation) – and I think Danny explains exactly why.

Through our utterly awful years, the astounding thing for me has been the resilience of the match-going fans, no matter the abysmal dross they are watching.

By the way I expect Everton to improve very soon with a fully fit squad and we will have full houses for the remaining league games, if we don’t improve I think a lot of tickets will be handed on to their mates, that’s if their mates want to go!

Dave @150, your grin and bear it sums it up for me. We keep going, we keep believing. One day, it has to change.

What a difference a day makes yesterday you were suggesting that the claim that Everton supporters were the best in the world, was completely erroneous because of some booing at Dyches substitutions. To now produce figures which would suggest that if not the best in the world they are certainly must be amongst Britain's best. Especially as for the last couple of seasons we have been involved in a relegation battle right up till the last couple of games of the season.

I used my paper round money to queue and get in for £1.50 if I remember. My mother bought me a season ticket for several years. God knows how she afforded it. Probably from a Speke loan shark.

I always paid her back in later life.

I spent many years not being able to watch Everton, but now I can, I never turn down the opportunity.

Like I've already said, if people don't want to go, offer your tickets to those who do.

Approximately 30,000 on the season ticket waiting list. Incredible.

And once again, respect for those in NZ, Australia, the US and other places around the globe for get up in the early hours. I've been there.

Unfortunately since the School of Science side, with the exception of Kendall mark 1 and Martinez year 1, it’s been dross or at best a hard watch.

Some of the younger fans don’t know what attractive joined up football looks like.

Bingham
Lee
Smith
Allardyce
Dyche

What does one expect!

A 5hr hour round trip and my work (which admittedly is my choice) prevents me from going to a most games. Watching the blues on the telly or my laptop means I only give up 90mins rather than the entire day.

I think the fact that it was on the box and everyone knew both clubs would field weakened teams made the option to sit at home and watch it with a few beers a bit more attractive to some fans. If the clubs don't take the competition seriously, we can hardly be surprised if some fans feel the same way. I'm not sure that constitutes voting with their feet though. I thought just shy of 35,000 was a very decent crowd under the circumstances.

Our away support is absolutely rock solid. Annoyingly so sometimes ): Especially when you have to sit among home fans if you want to see us play and the length of the waiting list for season tickets would suggest the home support is rock solid too.
TBH I'm always amazed when I see sold out signs for our televised games particularly when so many in attendance have to travel long hours to spend their afternoons sitting in seats with severely obstructed views.

The fans are definitely turning against Dyche, But I expect them to stick around to tell him so rather than stay away. They were here before him and they will still be here long after he's gone

Not everyone can get to the match for various reasons.

I've been saying for weeks that the supporters are turning on Dyche.

Also, the calls for Moyes, who my brother and nephew want. I think it would divide the fan base 50-50. Not what we need.

3,000 travelling to the King Power on Saturday, many of them will be young supporters who have never seen us win anything. Incredible dedication.

I have seen the 1962-63 champions standing on the pitch, watching them receive the league title, to dire days in the '70s, to the magnificent '80s, to Wembley in 1995.. and purgatory every year since..

Early days when I would be proudly holding a little blue and gold book of season tickets for each game and for the Central league games too...

Cutting vouchers out of programmes to get a Cup Final ticket, standing for hours to get one, standing on the East Lancs Road hitchiking a lift to London with a dozen others in a van.

So getting up in the early hours is nothing, because what I wouldn't give to walk through Goodison once more. Don't take love for granted, enjoy and treasure every minute of being a blue.

No matter how frustrating it is, it's nothing like not being able to actually go to a game again. The thought keeps me driven...

I think your posts generally demonstrate a degree of absolutism that will forever see you frustrated because it's the subtle nuances that you seem to be missing, in favour blanket generalizations that feed whatever paranoia is the flavour of the day.

Booing at the game is an instant emotion which many deride. It's rendered more embarrassing if the logic behind it is flawed.

The largely unrelated behaviour of not turning up at all for the game can have many different causal components, but you go ahead and conflate the two if you think that helps.

ps: Paul @151, I know you love a good fight but how your post @119 makes out that Si's post @115 is somehow disagreeing with mine @89 is taking warmongering on here to a new level.

I don't think Evertonians will start voting with their feet because I'm certain it would already have been done by now if this was the case. Considering the absolute shite we have had to put up with for a very long time, how many people actually enjoy watching Everton play right now?

If I'm being honest, I enjoyed the first five months of Moyes's last season, and I enjoyed the first season when Roberto had a dream, but other than that, I haven't enjoyed much. The final eleven games of Marco Silva's first season gave me hope, but Marcel Brands had crushed that by the end of the following transfer window.

Everton are like an infection that we can't ignore and there is no medicine that can cure it. Nor would we want it.

I know you and many others will be with us on Saturday, no matter what.

I remember the leaflets. "Kendall Must Go".

Right now, as much the optimist I am, I'm watching the clock from the second minute!!

Link

What dramatically changed under Howard Kendall was the promotion of Colin Harvey to first-team coach, replacing Mick Heaton. Colin was a great coach and his impact was there all through Howard's first spell.

I think events transpired against Colin when Howard went to Bilbao. I still wonder why? Yes, the lure of European football, maybe losing the Barcelona job to Venables had something to do with it.

I think we were 6th in the league when Colin was sacked as manager, and wasn't really given much time to bring in new players.

That link does not work for me. Can you fix it our post a better one? Thanks!

As I watched Kendall's babes in '83 away in Nottingham(where I was a student) I wondered when the good times would return.

Little did I know it was just round the corner.

When I would chat to my Portsmouth mates they would talk of their fathers watching Pompey win the league in the fifties but their fans travelled everywhere in good numbers without a sniff of a trophy for decades.

It is the deal that fans get dealt.

We older ones do have those marvellous memories but it is fantastic to see our younger crowd so enthusiastic.

I hope that new ownership will bring new management and new players to that new stadium and those kids get to experience silverware.

It is my belief that Colin Harvey was a football visionary, and he was more suited to training and coaching on the training ground, rather than being a football manager.

My brother had one of those leaflets on the bedroom door, Danny. I can still remember ripping it and even believed I had some special powers for a little while because suddenly Everton's fortunes changed and we started winning. What joy those next few years brought.

It did make me wonder though, Rob, how much die-hards such as yourself – who attend virtually every game – are spending each year? Perhaps though it might depress you to work it out?

I love Colin Harvey, he epitomises the ultimate Evertonian.

He was a great coach but didn't cut it as a manager. He preferred being on the training ground. I'll caveat the manager piece with that being him following in the boots of our most successful manager and the club starting it's failure to build on the platform we had built. There were many and obvious reasons for that.

Everyone was out of work but, wherever we went, including into Europe, there were always thousands of Evertonians inside the ground and it always seemed to be the same when watching Liverpool play on the television.

What do you think the diehards spend on watching Everton play? I'll leave that to others because I'm not so fanatical right now but, I love the story that John Motson told after once meeting a diehard Evertonian on a train.

He couldn't get over the time, effort and money, the man put into watching Everton, but I suppose this is what has made Everton such a special football club to begin with.

Coming from a Welshman.

Being the type of person he is, I wish he could be more involved with the club. I'm not sure he would want to be and I'm not sure how well he would go down in the corridors of power.

The most iconic picture of any Everton player since Dave Watson picked up the FA Cup, is Richarlison holding that blue pyro above his head Danny, and he definitely reminded me of a scouser when he tried to throw it outside the ground!

I thank Colin Harvey even more, he had a massive importance and influence on those victorious four years, Howard never would be a winning manager again anywhere and the less said about his two other times as manager, the better.

As for the hard times of the those years in the eighties, I don't believe the gates went from 30,000 or more down to 16,000 and getting booed off the field under Kendall's first reign because people couldn't afford it, it was mostly down to the shit getting served up, although it was better shit than the present muck.

Even if you just consider when £30 for away fans tickets was introduced, season 2016-17, that's £570 just on tickets alone. Then factor in travel, coach or train, probably another £500 - £600.

So there's anything between £1,150 - £1,200 per season, just getting there, seeing the match and coming home. Times that by eight years, so just under £10k.

Then add on about £4,500 for a season ticket for home games. So for the last 8 years, you're looking at just under £15k. Throw in cup games, European aways, pre-season friendlies away in Europe, and food and drink and the figure just goes up and up!!

When we had those few years in Europe, I reckon those European aways per season could have amounted to £3K+. So there's probably another £15K+.

So being realistic, since I started going to away games regularly, since the 1994-95 season, I'm estimating I could have spent anywhere between £75k - £85k… even touching £100k!! Just your average Premier League players weekly wage!!

Now then, where's that defibrillator!!

When the away fans don't take up their full allocation, we usually take up the vacant seats in the Upper Bullens. They were empty on Tuesday because we didn't fully sell out the rest of the ground. Therefore, I would estimate that about 4,000 fans voted “not to bother” turning up.

The reasons for that could be manifold: a) the fact that the club increased the price; b) it's midweek and difficult for some to attend; c) the short purchasing window; d) discretionary expenditure; and e) apathy.

I know that e) must have had some effect as me and my mate briefly considered “giving it a miss” – but, of course we didn't.

If we'd been doing well, we'd have sold out. Dyche's football is most definitely having a wearing effect!

Don't forget also that thousands are hanging onto their season tickets due to the lure of the new stadium.

I don't think this is a criticism in any way of the loyalty of our fans. Most teams would have been lucky to draw 25,000 for Tuesday's game.

One further point, if you remember in the eighties when our attendances hit an all time low, there was (in my life time) unprecedented unemployment, Liverpool and Man Utd's crowds were rock bottom, football was in the grip of terrible matchday violence, and crowds were actually lowered by the clubs to dodge VAT (no automatic turnstiles in those days).

No, the Evertonians support is rock solid but being tested to the limit these days!

He showed a lot of respect when he came back to Goodison.

Dave, Dr David wrote a very good article on Colin Harvey "The Greatest Evertonian ever". Boyhood supporter, player, youth coach, first-team coach, manager. "All I ever want to do was play for Everton."

He lived the dream we all dreamed of.

Iconic. I think if he could, he would walk all the way back from London for the chance to play for us once more.

Apologies for being the prompter of further depression. I hope you have a very understanding wife (or have kept the figures hidden from her)!

As Sky have fucked us ex-pats over and wont allow espana to show any Carabao Cup games and no radio station will allow us to listen, I just kept on the updates occasionally.

I saw the highlight on YouTube. I'm not sure how any other so-called missing players would have made much of a difference.

Calvert-Lewin wouldn't have scored in the 1 v 1s.

O'Brien will learn from that set play where they scored.

I actually feel sorry for Young. It wasn't that bad of a penalty.

Their keeper realised before ours that, if it's a right-footer, go left. (Left go right) Which is the way Southampton took theirs.

Our team not having a forward in the entire club without zig and zag is an absolute disgrace and on Thelwell. He is 100 % responsible for this League One squad.

Dyche is a terrible game management manager and his tactics are fucking odd.

Another humbling and another laugh for the rns.

Oh joy. Now Leicester., away. Gulp.

I still maintain that Gordon Lee was unfairly judged. Maybe because the Championship side of 69-70 was still fresh in the memory.

I had some absolutely glorious homes and aways under Gordon Lee. Everton were Mmgic (or possibly mercurial?)
It's unfair to label him full – we played some great stuff.
I miss it.

Is it his cape and coffin physiognomy that makes people either unable to accept that his teams could play or forgetting things in a cognitive subconscious refual to put the count out of mind?

Andrei Kanchelskis? No thanks. Dave Thomas every day of the week.

I'll have to disagree with regards to Kanchelskis. Alongside Rodriguez, the last top quality players we signed.

Mick Buckley was a hero of mine who might have gone on to become a great. He was that good, but fates conspired. But he had the good fortune to play alongside one of the most elegant midfielders I have ever seen in our shirt, Martin Dobson.

The image of Lee – damn, I'm blanking on his #2 – and a sub squeezed and huddled up in that tiny little box with blankets around the knees always makes me chuckle.

Remember the quote from Gordon Lee: "People keep on about stars and flair. As far as I'm concerned, you find stars in the sky and flair at the bottom of your trousers."

For an 11-year-old, everything about the day was amazing and my view from the bench seats in the Park Road and the aroma of beer, Bovril and tobacco was a defining moment for me.

To cap it off, after a 1-1 draw, a cascade of cushions rained down from the main stand, and we were 4th at the time!

A mildly interesting fact from the match programme was:-

‘The cushion hire service at Goodison Park is supplied and is the Property of C. Greenall, 157 Goodison Road, Liverpool 4'

He must have had a big shed!

I don't go as often these days but I will be at the Palace game with two of my brothers.

Everton had a full-back named Greenhall in the 1940s who also was on the coaching staff later in his career, I think his first name was Norman. maybe C Greenhall was a relation of his, bit of a soft job with all those cushions!

Anyway, a few years ago, my mum, in her late 70s, went to a dance up the East Lancs Road and was asked to dance by a “smallish bloke called Mick who said he used to play for Everton” I rattled off a few names – Pejic, Bernard, Buckley…. “That's him” she said, “Buckley”.

I got excited and asked if she was seeing him again but she said she didn't fancy him. She had just been widowed for the third time so I reckon he had a lucky escape!

Reading your post brings back a lot of similar experiences but most of mine were from 1956 to 1976. I have been getting back on an average of every 5 years with the last visit in April this year.

I suppose you along with many others have done what I did and that is, after the end of the game on the Saturday, we went round to the Bullens Road side of the ground and started queuing up for cup tickets that were on sale the following, day I think at noon... my wife saying she queued up the same for her dad.

I remember the amount of supporters hitch-hiking down the East Lancs in 1966 and 1968 for the cup finals and always wondered how many got there and had tickets to get in?p>