Moyes says Everton must ‘dodge and weave a bit’

From Moyes's comments in The Guardian today, where he calls on the Friedkins to 'show some ambition' and sympathises with Evertonians recent travails, I'm almost certain he flagged to the management earlier this year that he expected this sort of fall off with the squad if there was no investment in January, and was obviously denied that opportunity.

And I think that explains Angus's hamfisted defence of the current arrangement, cos he knows he's implicated.

Interesting that, Kevin.

I had the same feeling in January, I could definitely see an opportunity to go and challenge for Europe or, if we were brave enough, maybe even the Champions League.

This was after we had won at Nottm Forest with a squad that was down to its very bare bones with players like Dibling, Rohl, McNeil and Patterson all starting.

When we never went and signed a few players early in that window, my initial thoughts were that it was shortsighted and unprofessional, but others felt differently and were more interested in the long-term plan that the silent Friedkins allegedly possess.

Maybe it would have looked different if Moyes was prepared to keep using these other players more regularly, but when he never did, the only conclusion that you could really come to was that something wasn't quite right behind the scenes.

Did Moyes get told that he had some good young players that he was refusing to play? Or did he just get told there was no money for more players?

Either way, by the owners not being prepared to buy more players, or the manager not being prepared to use more players, then this showed a degree of shortsightedness and gave a picture that things were not quite aligned behind the scenes.

Tony yes, and Moyes's confidence in effectively calling out the owners here indicates he feels confident this is all on them. I reckon he was asking for a proper right back. And Angus in his wisdom was pointing out 'you never get good value in January'. And so they passed.

Calling out the owners?

Where has he done that Kevin?

If West Ham are relegated, we should try and sign Fernandes, can’t believe Martinez left him out of the Portugal World Cup squad. The player’s were been linked with has me worried. I know Moyes love’s experienced players, but it would be ridiculous if he brings in Soucek, Stones, and unbelievable Trippier linked at 35 years of age? Delap linked as well, he was shown around Hill Dickinson but opted for Chelsea, leave him there. In his few games for Chelsea, he’s been sent off and booked in most games, has a nasty streak and no discipline whatsoever, against Spurs on Tuesday night he got yellow instead of red, for elbow on Spence, who has a broken jaw?

You don't think saying 'the Friedkins need to show some ambition' is calling out the owners, John?

Ouch, ouch, ouch, pesky glass ceiling.

The kids have had the chance to show what they can do!!?

I must have missed that part of the season and I don't mean the one game where Moyes made changes.

Something has just resonated with me after reading what Moyes has said about it only needing a couple of your better players to suddenly start losing a bit of form and results can change, after reading that we haven't won an away game since February on the match day thread.

We had the best away form in the league, said some people, another has just said we are now 3rd in the away league, but Michael K, is saying that the truth is we are actually 6th.

All irrelevant in the bigger scheme of things because the only thing that genuinely counts is the proper league table which records every single game both home and away.

But it has taken me back to the final season when David Moyes was managing us first time around and our final away win of the season came in the first week of January, when we had a much better team.

I can never recall a David Moyes team not looking tired at certain stages of the season; although this might be natural given that 10 months is a very long time, the man has never helped himself because he has always preferred to work with a small squad.

Tony,

Posters manipulate stats to show how well Moyes is doing.
100% right mate,the final table is what counts.

I got told by a Moyes fan this week " did you know Moyes has got more points than Iraola since he came back to Everton"

My reply,"one is playing in the CL next season,one isn't."

We've been dodging and weaving for the best part of 10 years.

How long is “a bit” like?

At least with Dyche, one knew that he just wanted to dispose of the question when offering blah blah. With Moyes, I think he actually believes we need him to make sense of what we have witnessed on the pitch.

Moyes mostly speaks in a way that is meant to comfort fans' disappointment. It also provides some cover for the owners. It is a PR stunt.

When the club's Europe intentions(?), aspirations(?), fairytale wishes(?!?), evaporated into a surrender, all talk of club development should have ceased. Instead, this one is too concerned about perceptions to just keep it on the pitch and play it out.

This is looking again like he is playing Friedkin. He is communicating to the owners while ostensibly letting us know everything is really alright. You just have to look at the situation in the right way.

Bollocks.

“A big summer might mean that we just make one really top signing that makes the difference to the team, it doesn't necessarily mean we go out and buy six players.”

He does know there are some numbers between 1 and 6 doesn't he? We need at least 1 top class right-back and 1 top class striker, so for me it wouldn't be even a reasonable summer if there is only one really top signing (which will probably be Grealish).

Kevin (1): “I hope we can add to what we have got and excite the supporters a little bit more with what we are trying to do.”

“I am confident the owners will help us to get the next piece of the jigsaw.”

Perhaps the really meaty stuff isn't represented in the OP? Otherwise, I'm not seeing any real evidence that Moyes has been let down at any previous stage and is vehemently demanding redress.

It was nice to be talking about Everton trying to get into Europe. I would honestly prefer to be talking about us at least trying to win a cup, especially because when I look back over time, whenever we qualified for Europe, we never once got past the last 16.

So what exactly is the point if you're not trying to achieve genuine success, which should always be measured in trophies for a club of Everton's calibre???

Some might call me self-entitled in having such an opinion but my reply would simply be that, if this was the case, then surely I still wouldn't be renewing my season ticket once again after witnessing a lot of football without any discernible style getting played every other week in a stadium that is fit for kings.

John (10), wouldn’t help if those stats weren’t true.

AI reckons it’s 80 for Moyes and 90 for Iraola. Who do you believe?

I thought to myself, given the finishing positions in the last two seasons, it was plums mate.

Typical of what I mentioned earlier on, the Moyes backers trying anything to justify the season he has just given us.

Si
you're not going to see 'I feel badly let down. I warned them this would happen and then it did'.
he'd be out within the hour.
But 'Everton need a big summer and the owners need to show the ambition to push the club forward' in the context of our disastrous last six games tells me he holds them responsible. ie he warned them this would happen if they didn't act, and they didn't act. Only something like that would give him the confidence to chide them in this manner.

Kettle calling pot, black arse!!! Where was Moyes ambition in the last 6 to 8 games none!! No risk taken by Moyes all to safe and risk averse. So many missed opportunities and he is dtill winging about refs decisions.

Ian, I was literally about to use the pots and kettles phrase myself.

I just watched a snail try so hard to get out of the sun (I knew he'd make it) but he showed more ambition and speed than the fucker who points the finger at everyone else than himself.

Play the millions of pounds worth of players that Friedkin did buy and maybe they would trust you to not fritter away their investments.

Agree Stu, it is soul-destroying seeing the club we love being driven back to mediocrity after the barren Kenwright years, then the Moshiri "kid in a corner shop" approach, and the Premier League trying to break us.

Like it or not, our RS neighbours are marching Slot out of town for finishing in a Champions League position, yet we must be careful what we wish for!!

Moyes Out!!

Kevin, your assumption that there must be something to be ‘read between the lines' is simply that, an assumption.

The fact that you clearly can see no wrong when it comes to the manager doesn't help.

Maybe you can tell us what messages he is sending us in morse code when he blinks?

A big summer ahead of us hopefully without him. Wants to help West Ham stay up by probably playing the same team and formation that have been piss poor in the last 6 games.

Groundhog Day awaits every game next season if the owners don't grow a pair and go out and get Glasner or someone equivalent.

Moyes calling his boss out about showing some ambition!!! I didn't think Moyes could spell 'ambition' -- never mind know what it means. What we supporters have had dished up to us this season is nothing short of criminal.

Barry for Beto, Beto for Barry, late useless subs, avoiding using younger players. Moyes is the problem -- not the answer. I have said this before... almost 13 years here in his two spells and the only thing he has ever lifted is his pay packet.

Moyes Out!

I've never been a Moyes basher but the reality of this season is that he hasn't used the squad of available players by not taking real chances with the likes of Dibling, Aznou, George and even Patterson and, until the last few games, Rohl.

So, the majority of the "used" players were absolutely fucked by the 32nd game. Brain-dead management. Instead of blaming the Friedkins, he should be prepared to take the blame for the end-of-season collapse.

“A big summer might mean that we just make one really top signing that makes the difference to the team, it doesn't necessarily mean we go out and buy six players,” said Moyes.

Horse puckey, Davey. One signing won't make that much of a difference unless it's Pedri or Yamal. We really do need at least five -- centre-back, right-back, wing, #10 and striker -- to compete at the proper level for Europe and silverware.

The kids have had the chance to show what they can do!!?

Liar.

I just can't listen to that man any longer. He has to go. He refuses to acknowledge the obvious. The time he used O'Brien at CB, we put in one of our best defensive performances of the season. Then Jake is punished and sent to his "preferred " RB position.
Sadly, O'Brien's limitations as a RB were exposed against Sunderland.
MOYES, O'BRIEN IS NOT A RIGHT BACK!!!

One or two players added to the squad can sometimes/potentially make a difference. Andy Gray/Peter Reid did. Was the team prior to their signings going anywhere. It seemed to gel when we got leaders/characters in...

Maybe I'm missing something " it only takes a couple of your better players to lose form and you're screwed" or something like that. If he's talking about N'Diaye then pick George instead - he didn't. If he's talking about KDH - pick Charlie instead. I suspect it's them two but if he's talking about Tarks, who has been awful - put O'Brien at CB and play either Patterson / Coleman or Garner at RB.

If Dibbling / Aznou were not up to it - loan them out and don't have them sitting on their arses all season. Harrison Armstrong came back from PNE and looked all the better for it, got a few games and went awol.

If it's true, the Club stopped the Moyesiah from playing Gueye, as it would trigger a 12 month extension, which the club didn't want - then Resign. If a club won't let you manage and pick who you want, you leave - don't you ?

But KDH and Ndiaye are average players, the rest of the squad are shit.

Once Carlo lost James, he went to 10 behind the ball. None of our current players are anywhere near that kind of quality and yet somehow Moyes is doing wrong. Carlo, one of the world's greatest managers, came here and was shocked at the shit quality of our players and got out whilst he could.

No academy, no decent scouts and no-one who wants to play for us.

That is more of thee point here

If it’s a drubbing today, which some fans think it will - then he needs fuckin off.
Sours will be well up it. Especially seeing the Burnley pair.
Don’t worry, it’ll be the same team today. Gotta pick the favourites and play it safe.
Poor O’Brien ripped to shreds again. Players shattered or on the breach.

I switch off when he’s on the tv. Same dour press conferences. Plucky little Everton.

I’d hate being a West Ham fan today relying on Everton. They probably accept they’re down. Especially with their ex negative dumb down expectations manager.

Dean @ 32,Moyes spent £115 million in the summer transfer window. Yet, according to you, we only have 2 average players at best.

I would suggest we have some decent players but a very average manager.

...and if the 'one really big signing' turns out to be Grealish then all we're doing is standing still.

Just shut up and fuck off you bullshit merchant

Once Carlo lost James, he went to 10 behind the ball.
Still managed 59 points that season from "behind the ball football"

On and on and on.
Dyche, Ancelotti, Silva, Martinez etc etc.
"They are all shit so it's OK that Moyes is shit"

John

Carlo is a World class manager and we were lucky to have him, had Real Madrid not come in for him and the war in Ukraine didnt happen I think we would have been playing Champions league football on a regular basis. He has the 3rd best win rate of any Everton manager ever and lets not forget he had a back 4 with godfrey and Holgate in it so to get 59 points with them in the back 4 just shows how good a manager he was. Left us went to Real won the league and the Champions league with them. I think he has the record for most Champions league wins.
And you call him shit, I do wonder about if our fans know anything about the game if they are calling Ancelotti shit.

Although not one bit surprised, I found it very alarming reading what the manager, has been saying about not needing that many numbers, but more about finding one or two players with real quality.

Keeping the squad small and concentrating on slowly moving up the table and creating more stability, before hopefully getting into Europe, is how David, likes to operate, and when he plays the players who he doesn’t really fancy in the cups and we get knocked out, a lot of fans will be livid, but a lot more fans will be saying, what do you expect? It’s not David’s fault we haven’t got enough good players in our squad.

It doesnt matter who he signs, if the luckiest unlucky manager in the history of the top flight stays it will be a facsimile of this season, early exits from both cups, another two derby defeats, top of the bottom half and he wont give a flying fuck...TFG wake up...PLEASE!

Brian 38,

I didnt call him shit.
It was a sarcastic reply.

One of my all time favorites Carlo.
Just finished his book

John,

Sorry, I didn't pick up the sarcasm in your reply.

Gutted we could not keep him, Brian.

All-time great.

Dodge & weave out the fucking door please Moyes!

Time to go!

Moyes needs to hope the owners don’t show any ambition because if they do the first move will be to get a manager who doesn’t give up, focus on playing down expectation and try to convince us that we should be grateful for ‘bad’ because we used to have ‘appalling’.

I can’t quite believe what I’m reading in the early replies, unless I’m misunderstanding things in my heart-addled brain. One of Moyes’ many problems has been his failure to play players like Patterson, Dibling and Röhl in rotation. He’s failed to make adequate substitutions. He’s failed to pick balanced teams. He’s prioritised having centre backs and central midfielders on the pitch to win headers and tackles, then we’ve failed to win headers and tackles. Even after this has been obvious, game after game, he’s failed to change it.

Today’s team had at least 3 players out of position for the 7th game running. We had 3 right backs, none of whom was the best right back at the club. Patterson started 3 league games this season and we got 7 points. Moyes promptly changed it as soon as he was able. Alcaraz has hardly played, Dibling has rotted on the bench and made no progress at all. Dewsbery-Hall has been found out as he’s not a no.10. N’Diaye has become less and less effective as the opposition know he’s the only one they really have to stop.

We could have finished with 10-15 more points this season through some absolute basics, and even if Moyes had simply avoided mind-numbingly stubborn stupidity in the last few weeks we’d have probably gained an extra 5. He managed the whole season badly as he wasn’t able to use fresh legs towards the end of games when it really mattered. This is why you give more minutes to the ‘fringe’/rotation players earlier on - it means they’re ready when needed later on.

We made the fewest substitutions in the league and conceded multiple late goals that cost points. This is not because we didn’t have the players, it’s because Moyes failed to use them. We don’t need massive spending on new players, we need a new coach who will use the ones we’ve got - a job made more difficult by the lack of European football in which to utilise a wider squad.

This is a unique and unusual summer as there are multiple managers, with better Premier League records than Moyes, who are available. This is a huge test of The Friedkin Group as owners and I fear they themselves lack any real ambition. How can anyone look at Bournemouth, Brighton and Sunderland qualifying for Europe and accept the utter nonsense that we ‘weren’t ready’?

Only one man at the club wasn’t ready. The millstone Moyes.

Great post Mike - 45 - from the first word to the last.

Mike Allison (45) thank you for articulating things so well. It is a massive summer for the club and surely the owners can’t be happy?

Not sure if this thread allows positive comments about Moyes to filter through, but it was much easier watch that game through the lens of an Everton fan than a Spurs one.

We tailed off for sure at the end of the season, but when you have tweedle-dum and tweedle-dee to pick from up front, there is automatically a limit to how many goals you are scoring, and points you are picking up.

Gueye not being in the team for the last few matches is also a limiting factor, as the man is still key for us in midfield, and Ireogbunam is not yet, if he ever will be, at the same level.

Patterson has been available for several managers at the club, and none of them have picked him, which has to say a lot.

Dibling has looked like a fish out of water when he's been on the pitch, so I wouldn't be blaming Moyes for keeping him sat down.

Aznou looks very lightweight for the premier league, which is why he's not getting picked. He did ok coming on as a sub in the cup match, but he wasn't brought on to defend.

Rohl has done ok the last couple of matches, but he's far from an elite premier league player,

Out of any of the subs, George has looked like he could be the real deal, but he's still young and raw.

I would say that the reason we have used so few subs in the league, is that, by and large, the substitutes are a good bit short of the required mark.

"Not sure if this thread allows positive comments about Moyes to filter through,"

Michael K.
You naughty boy, your blocking the hundreds of pro Moyes posts through your own personal choice.

How would we know how good they are Michael? Patterson has always looked decent and we’ve had good results and looked more balanced with him in the side. Alcaraz, Dibling and Aznou would all have improved over time through playing. What’s your excuse for playing players out of position all the time? Two slow centre backs with poor mobility whilst 6’5” O’Brien struggles in wide areas. The things Moyes could and should have done better are just so, so obvious and easy. My assumption about O’Brien at right-back is that Moyes wants an extra aerial player at set pieces, but we’ve not been much of a threat and we’ve also conceded important goals from headers, so that hasn’t even worked.

Even within normal debates about who might play where, Moyes hasn’t even tried different things. He hasn’t even tried the obvious - pick the best player in each position and turn them into a team.

Every team has injuries, you can’t blame them.

Most strikers look poor at Everton because of the way we play. Look how Calvert-Lewin came alive at Leeds. A better manager and more attacking players around them and both of our £25m strikers would have scored more.

I would say the reason we have used so few subs in the league is that Moyes is a cautious, cowardly, stubborn, unimaginative manager who has deliberately surrounded himself with ‘yes men’ who will never challenge him or come up with any alternative ideas.

He’s taken us as far as he can. Finishing below Bournemouth, Sunderland, Brentford, Fulham and Brighton is nowhere near good enough. The results objectively speak for themselves, and subjectively it is clear from Moyes’ decisions and pronouncements that he is not good enough.

I don't think one "special " player will fix us, we need two new full backs for a start.

He needs to stop fanying around with the Beto/Barry - Barry/Beto situation, make a decision.
We also need a different style of striker and not another Delap who had a poor season.

Ferndandes and Summerville would be great signings for us, but knowing Moyes he will buy Soucek, although not a bad player, his best days are behind him.

I know one thing matters will turn very toxic if poor transfer decision are made and Moyes is still Moyes. He may not see out his final 12 months

Fernandes will go for big money.

Somerville is better on the left. Already got Ndiaye, probably Grealish and a decision on George.

Absolutely nothing on the right. This needs addressing, as decent teams are getting 10, 15, 20 goal & assists from the right, and we are getting zip.

It is another reason we struggle.

I think the Friedkins will be happy that Moyes will deliver 45-50 points again next season. Mid table. Guaranteed Premier League income.

I don't want to even discuss the dynamics of the team because this manager will never achieve anything more with us. A manager that has never had a striker getting 20+ league goals in a season in over 20 years of Premier League management.

Zero pace in our squad. Let alone team.

I'm sure the Friedkins don't fully know the depth of feeling amongst match-going fans against Moyes.

A few blues have emailed them on info@pursuit-sports.com. They got replies as well.

He needs sacking! No need to give him any transfer kitty.

Micheal 48.

Are you part of the backroom staff?

His treatment of Alcaraz alone has been appalling, let alone 5 more most of us could mention.

I've just sent them a cracking email, John. Hopefully they read it, because if they do, I'm certain they will go and sack Moyes.

With not that many talented managers on the market, I'm hoping they might end up giving me an interview for the job!!