Now that the magic seems so irretrievably lost, Everton fans are hurt, bewildered and angry

Everything's happened right before our eyes.

Going by ToffeeWeb and a number of other Everton supporters' sites, hurt and angry for sure.

Not bewildered. It is and has been perfectly clear, who has put the Club in this position.

Edit: I posted before reading the article. The writer waived off responsibility for his long-time friend Bill Kenwright. That is bewildering.

I was just reading an interview with Heinrich Himmler's daughter. According to her, he was a nice bloke and really knew nothing about the holocaust. Weird that cause millions say otherwise. Funny how personal relationships can blind some to the truth.

James, he doesn't discuss Kenwright's responsibility one way or another, just discloses the long friendship and declines to kick him around. As you would with a friend.

And Kieran, your usually entertaining cynicism is way over the line on this one. Nazi references are never appropriate. Disappointed in you, mate.

Some passion required!!!

My Way by Frank Sinatra:

And now, the end is near,
And so we face the final curtain,
My friends I'll say it clear because I'm certain,
I've watched it all, in joy and tears,
Travelled far and near for this club,
We give it all and so much more,
Everton are my way,

Regrets, who gives a fuck,
Far too many, that I'm certain
They reach down and lift us up
We love this team, even though we're hurtin'

For what is a Blue, what have we got,
We have our pride, that means a lot,
Our blood is blue, and it boils hot,
We'll show them all, just what we got,

We'll do it our way!

Viner just reconfirms everyone's suspicions about Menwright's media connections and the whitewashing that's gone on for years. He, like others in the media, knew Kenwright was lying through his teeth but chose to remain silent.

So on we go to our own version of High Noon but without Garry Cooper and without our main weapon. I still think we'll win though. UTFT!!!

However, the lad who wrote this column is an Evertonian. A Blue who's feeling the anguish as much as any of us. He's a friend of Kenwright's and all he's said is he isn't acting against a friend. Seems to me many are born Evertonians and many more choose our club. Well, Brian chose Everton, or Everton chose him, when he was 8 years old.

He's written from his heart and it pours out from this article. His job is journalism and many journalists write pieces that the editor wants. As a Blue, he'll have his own thoughts.

I think his last chapter, he touches a chord with me:

"Years ago I used to have a kind of kinship with Man City fans. Man Utd were top dogs in the city, as Liverpool were in ours. But they were sleeping giants, just as we were in ours. Well they woke up and roared, whereas we're we're still snoring our heads off." Apologies for scousism!

You're right, Colin. We're lacking some big guns. But we've got one more that'll be there.

Us!

We are hurt, angry, frustrated and despairing at our potential fate.

But you only have to read these columns and be in the various stadiums around the country to know that we care passionately and will always do so.

We have been let down. We have been abandoned. It hasn't stopped us.

It never will.

Get Sunday out of the way and then the day of reckoning for those who failed us is coming.

Stan, Brian Viner says he's a friend of Kenwright's in his article, it wasn't suggested in a post that he's a friend of Kenwright's so didn't want to join in the "savage kicking" as he puts it.

This is just a page filler. There's plenty of page fillers including one that said "Send Them Down" written by those who have no love of Everton. This one happens to be by one who loves Everton. Which I much prefer to the previous one mentioned.

There was an article in the Mail on 5 April which goes into some depth on who is responsible for the mire Everton are in. That's Moshiri and Kenwright according, to their Chief Sports Writer.

He followed Everton to places like Middlesborough and Grimsby he says, it was a wasted journey the one to Grimsby, we lost at Goodison Park. Sounds like on of his friends stories to me.
I’d put this article in the bin, I think there might be a few more stories like this one before the game on Sunday,none of them will persuade me to change my mind who has really damaged this club over a long period and it’s all in black and white, the lies and deceit this man has fostered on the club and fans.

I wish I could put my finger on what has gone wrong; I think probably a collection of poor players, poor management at times, and poor direction from the owners and board members.

But I look across the park and they have had bad owners probably in Hicks and Gillette – worse than any we have had – and in Evans and Hodgson had some very ordinary managers. But, since they got back in the top division in 1961, they have never finished lower than 8th.

We have gone from being Mersey Millionaires, as we were dubbed under our greatest Chairman, to a club who struggle to get into the top half of the Premier League.

We used to produce some very good homegrown players but we now struggle to produce youngsters who can come through and hold down a regular first-team spot.

I think what hasn't changed is we still pay too many of our players what Champions League players get, but invariably the salary paid doesn't translate to talent.

But maybe all this is for another day and, despite our lack of quality, I still believe we will still be a Premier League club next season.

I have been there for all the other times we could have dropped out of the top league: 2-down at half-time to Wimbledon and without fans in the Park End as it was being rebuilt but we still created an atmosphere that said "We are not going down!" – and we didn't.

Even last season, when we all thought we would have to beat Palace to stay up and again found ourselves 2-down at half-time, I reminded my Son and Grandson who thought we were gone, "I have seen this club come back from a 2-goal deficit before" – and we did.

So keep the faith and, even if we go a goal behind, remember we are Everton and we will survive. Just finally, I hope nobody goes on the pitch at the end. Maybe we should just turn our backs on this owner and board who have turned their backs on us?

He is gone so fast in the Summer.

Things look bleak but we ain't dead yet. We have to get vocal on Sunday and keep it going should we concede. The worst thing we can do is go quiet and accept our fate. With players out injured, we have to play our part. The time for expressing grief for our plight can come but not yet – we all have a big game to prepare for.

Our West Country Blues coach was sold out some time ago – 77 on board – and loads of others are travelling hundreds of miles to support the team. Let's make a noise like never before and scare the crap out of Bournemouth – All Together Now and show the Spirit Of The Blues… Could be a song there??

If I could, I would write for the Daily Mail.

Dave Williams and the West Country Blues, safe travels. I genuinely admire your dedication.

It is Wednesday and I am clock-watching.

You give it a rest, mate, and stop calling people out for using "Nazi" references – whatever happened in that dark period of history happened, and it was atrocious.
You attempting to stop people referring to historical events is censorship, something the German Government of the time used to their advantage.

You also choose to support a team that it is rumoured Hitler himself went to watch when staying with his Aunt Bridget in Stanhope Street in the city visiting his brother.

This was all unearthed when his aunt's diaries were found.

I, as well as many other families, lost people fighting Germany and part of my family was wiped out in the blitz.

You're not the ToffeeWeb police, mate, and history and the unforgivable crimes committed will not go away if nobody mentions them.

Failure to bring in the right executives and inculcate a performance culture off the pitch will see us suffer.

If we stay up, and that means the outside investment or sale materialises, and they bring in proper management at C-level, then we may see change, but it will be a slow process.

And something tells me the teary one won't go quietly.

Spot on. What you said was a valid comparison and reference: you only shared a similar example of someone claiming to be unaware of something.

It's akin to the way Gary Lineker was misquoted with his reference to speech in 1930s Germany. But in order to discredit what he was saying, then people said he compared the current Government to the Nazis. He didn't.

I absolutely hate people misquoting (often deliberately).

Anyway,

For my money, the writer should have shared some analysis but instead stuck with emotion. Some people love emotion ahead of logic or analysis. I don't… but each to their own.

Since the sale of Alan Ball, our recruitment has been mostly abysmal – buying crap at top dollar is not a new thing in this parish.

The Kenwright - Moyes era rectified the situation by accepting our place was not at the top table, creating an unholy contract with match-going Evertonians that stability at the expense of not challenging was acceptable.

From there on in, we were doomed.

The Martinez revolution was a non-starter from the get-go – massive funds are required to bolster squads with quality every year and he was picking up the likes of Aiden McGeady!!

Once Martinez was binned and the dead hand of Moshiri gripped this club, every decision became a bullet wound. Now the financial burden of a new stadium has effectively put us into penury for the foreseeable.

That unholy contract followed by Moshiri is the root cause of our ills – easily satisfied fans and a mad Iranian… what a combo.

How did we get into the massive financial mess that Moshiri cleared up when he bought the club? Who created the mess? Did they happen by chance?

Wre were £20 million in credit when Kenwright bought the club; we owned Goodison Park and Bellefield training ground. Goodison was mortgaged up to the hilt; Bellefield was sold, Finch Farm had been bought, sold, then leased back for the next 20 years.

Moshiri has paid for a new ground, on hold; his mistake was having a friend guarding the club in his place. If you think Chairman Bill is blameless since Moshiri took over, you might be in a minority but maybe you can explain why Kenwright is blameless? I'll listen if you can.

We also lost at Grimsby in the same competition in 1979.

Yes, true enough, if that was the game Viner was referring to, I apologise to him.

It's still a one-sided article that blames Moshiri and gives his friend a free ride.

We need 3-4 new forward players this summer, I hope to God we’re talking to the right free agents and youngsters. The potential loss of Isaac Price and the favouring of Maupay over Simms is a huge sap on my optimism about this though. We’ll probably sign a few more centre backs and sell Branthwaite.

Kenwright not only never had the money, he never had the business acumen to take the opportunities that others did or recruit the best management teams. He blagged his way till he found Moshiri, then spent his money in the belief it would cure all ills.

The world's most expensive patsy, Moshiri was never really interested in running the club, leaving Kenwright to it. Moshiri was stupid; Kenwright allowed incompetence to happen running the club.

One final question: How could a Chairman and Financial Director fall foul of the Premier League' s Profitability and Sustainability rRles by such a huge amount and not do anything?

Why did we get in that mess when a Finance Director, CEO and Chairman should have been all over this like a rash. That's a perfect example of where the incompetence has been and, if we are relegated, that will be a question that underlines why we may have to even question our survival.

His film reviews aren't up to much either.

Perhaps we are in such a financial mess because we have tried to compete, we had to keep up with the Jones????

Sorry for the inappropriate analogy. I had literally just read that Himmler piece before switching to ToffeeWeb so I posted before engaging brain fully.

What Kenwright and Moyes "achieved" with the collusion of accepting fans was the assurance that non-challenging safety would always provide us with enough cheap functional players to turn a profit. If the shit really hit the fan, we could sell Pienaar, Arteta, Baines, Fellaini, Rooney, Rodwell, Lescott etc to cover debts.

That all changed with Moshiri. He dabbled in matters he was clueless about and spent millions on crap, leaving us with a squad of hardly any valuable assets. Then he went ahead with an ill-timed new build which will kill us stone dead unless he sells to big oil.

From that point of view, it could be argued Kenwright did a decent job but the caveat is always acceptance of Everton as mid-table no-hopers. Not for me, I'm afraid.

I think Viner is genuine. I've read lots of his stuff and he's followed Everton for a long time, so that has include lots of crap times too. A friend of Bill? Well, we can't hold that against him.

And on the subject of the Nazis, can we please have the effing siren turned off for good. What the fuck does it add? Let's hear the fans instead of that appalling sound. I absolutely hate it.

So what are your proposals to turn Everton first from a Bottom 3 team to mid-table and then into a top team given that you are an armchair fan with no power whatsoever?

Admitting to being a friend of Kenwright for 20 years sums up Mr Viner's Evertonian credentials rather well.

I have read Viner's book on us, Looking for The Toffees, and I loved it. I don't doubt his credentials - if anything, it's my increasing anger at what's coming and those who have the power to say something honest about what's gone on.

Barry @28 seems to be espousing the most accurate assessment of what has unraveled over the past 10 years.

Kenwright has always run the club from London, leaving his toffee munchkins to do all else up here – but what do they do?

Let's face it, though, since the inception of the Premier League, we have been largely awful, except for a few years when Moyes had built a half-decent side.

“Even Kenwright's manifest devotion to Everton earns him the sneering nickname "Blue Bill" from one or two columnists on the website ToffeeWeb, this from fans who damned the previous owner Peter Johnson because he was a Liverpool fan.”

“I should declare an interest here: I know Kenwright pretty well and like him enormously. It is true that the great impresario should take some responsibility for the fiasco in the summer, when a superstar and a chief executive exited stage left, while the spotlight fell on directors grappling for power.

"But he didn't deserve to be vilified – let alone spat at, which he was. Nor can his critics have it both ways, lambasting him for the bad that has happened and disassociating him from the good. After all, Kenwright it was who identified Moyes as the man who could make Everton a force again, and increasingly it looks as if no football club chairman ever made a shrewder decision.”

I'd like to help the poor Everton fans who keep us down by accepting being mid-table (I wish?) by helping them understand what they can do to not accept the situation.

Can you help them by explaining that you top fans do to not accept it? How do you feel that you personally have changed the club's fortunes from the top of the Moyes tenure to now?

I'd love to know how I can support the club better.

Viner on Twitter today:

"BK is a friend and I will not publicly kick him. Moshiri has been the overwhelming problem."

Anyone want to buy a Joseph Technicolor coat? It is going for a knockdown price? Anyone? Ok just send it to Viner.

Sorry, mate, you are front and centre.

I maintain hope that we can avoid relegation Sunday but what then next season?

Does anyone not believe that the new stadium on the banks of the Mersey would have been a cowshed in Kirkby if Kenwright had his way originally?

Moshiri's only fault was that he allowed Kenwright to stay in charge of the club – a mistake made by a number of rich people Kenwright had conned before.

As Dave Abrahams said, Kenwright inherited an asset-rich club and took less than 2 years to turn that into a liability and then appointed a Championship manager who totally undid all that Moyes had built up.

Has anyone read Sam Wallace's piece on us in today's Telegraph? It's behind a paywall.

It really has nothing new in The Telegraph piece.

Just recounts the P&S investigation into Everton, how other clubs are upset about a possible rules breach. How parachute payments work.

That is about it. Fluff.

A 3-column article by Sam Wallace with absolutely nothing we don't already know.

Whatever happens on Sunday, Everton will survive and prosper before too long – it's too much loved and supported by its fans to do otherwise.

I think the club will be sold in the near future – hopefully to somebody or persons with more brass and business acumen than Moshiri.

I can't believe that Moshiri and Kenwright will want to stay around after what has gone on this season. It's quite obvious they are not wanted at the club, especially Kenwright.

And with all the outrage over swimwear, doesn't that put a target on Elon?

You ask how can I transform the club before asserting with great glee I have no power to do so!!! Then why ask, you festering banana? Are you desperate to portray “idiot speak” as some kind of gift?

Your question about what fans en masse could do is more than a decade too late. If you had paid attention (or simply not mixed medication with alcohol), you may have noticed many of us forewarned where this would end up at the time!!!!

The Kenwright and Moyes blueprint of safety, not ambition, excused ad nauseum by a vociferous cabal, was never going to return us to our historic place at the top table and the idea other clubs would join us in standing still was delusion of the highest order.

Now get this into your thick skull: fans can do nothing to influence matters on the pitch. Only the impetus of billions from an Oil Sheikh or similar can.

ps: If you can't get your act together and ask sensible questions without spitting your dummy, I won't respond again. Your lack of reason and emotional instability make you barely coherent and ultimately tiresome.

And stop stalking me – I know I'm handsome but that's no excuse.

My view is that Kenwright is mainly to blame for what he did (or didn't) do before Moshiri got involved and that is when he waved Bye Bye to Sheik Mansour...allegedly. He then got the man of his dreams to invest in the club...who knew little about running a football club and a power struggle ensued and we are paying for it. All; the other issues as well, I haven't gone into. The Kings Dock, The money's in the post! Sir Philip Greene (our Good Friend) "We've had some good times" and more.

All that is nothing at all to do with this article written by and Evertonian who's a friend of Kenwright. So what. Or are we getting so like the wokey mobs that we crucify by association? I thought he spoke well of the club he supports
Jay Harris and Raymond Fox, good posts. Even Martin Mason! well said.

If Chairman Bill, hadn't have found a 'billionaire' at the time he did, Everton would already be broke and possibly would have been playing outside the premier league for a few years already, and there would have been no new stadium on the horizon either. Hopefully, Monday will see us continue to play in the top-flight and the stadium will be fully funded to completion.

His full disclosure on Chairman Bill is to be admired and sometimes, as in Harold Pinter's plays, silence is a deeply significant device. His view that Moshiri is ahead of our narcissistic chairman in the blame-game is held by others. I don't share it. It's a question of perspective for me. His mate Kenwright is the biggest factor in our long-term decline; Moshiri is the biggest factor in this last seven-year shocking slump.

Nor is he “a fair-weather fan”, Finn Taylor, unless rarely missing a game from Herefordshire is a definition of “a fair-weather fan”. Some of the trivial reflex comments on this thread tell us rather more about the poster than the subject. I don't know Viner, by the way, I follow his writing and media. I seem to remember hearing that the ‘Brian Viner Interview” in The Independent is the longest running weekly interview column in the history of UK journalism. I might be wrong on that. He is a serious journalist who just happens – to his cost on this thread – to be a devoted Evertonian.

Anyone who has read Viner's wonderful book Looking for the Toffees on the late-1970s feels instinctively and warmly that he is a dyed-in-the-wool blue who loves us. Yes I was there at most of what he writes about and so I feel pretty partial, but jeez does he capture those times for teenage me when supporting Everton, yes Gordon Lee's Everton, was pure joy.

Sorry to head off on another tangent but hearing Brighton's DOF say that his/their main aim is to get players in the door “before we need them” is crushing having watched the Moshiri years of transfer splurges.

We will stay up. In some ways I'm more frightened about the summer than Sunday, and our urgent need for root-and-branch reform in nearly all aspects of the club so that we are not in this position one year from now.

Keep believing everyone!

Give them big shouts and songs from me Rob Halligan!

COYB!

It's painfully naive to be frank, ignoring ( like so many late to the party) the obvious pre Moshiri catalogue of incompetence that almost bankrupted the club. The article for me, sounded a little like groundwork of a post Moshiri Everton still run by Kenwright. Viner is obviously a passionate Evertonian, but like so many, has never bothered to worry about how the club is run until apparently suddenly, we are relegation fodder. There is no sudden demise, quite the opposite, a thousand cuts, mostly self inflicted. It's a shame the article doesn't ask why and how it's happened rather than an observation that it has.

I had never heard of him as a writer or critic (He could write a book on Kenwright never mind a column). I’m leaving that article in the bin Paul!!

The one consistent feature is The Daily Mail - and when Everton finally change their board - maybe Moshiri will tell everyone - it wasn’t me, it was the other three?

All turned quiet - I’ve been here before - a lonely boy - hiding behind the front door - my friends have all gone home - there’s my toy gun on the floor.

Dave #17, I'm not censoring anybody, just expressing an opinion. The gent I expressed it to is a longtime TW friend and he conceded the point. I'll continue to express my feelings. If you don't care for that, scroll past my comments.

Dave #11, you should read Viner's book Searching for the Toffees. It's a lovely tribute to some of his favorite childhood Blues heroes, and the interviews he did once he found them are both entertaining and informative. He's a great Evertonian.

And for what it's worth, I would remind anybody blaming Kenwright 100% for our current situation that it was Moshiri who hired Benitez over Bill's objections. That hire was the single biggest factor in moving us from midtable struggler to desperate relegation candidate two years in a row.

I know people hate him for installing the mediocrity chip at Goodison Park but this really is tenuous supposition dressed up as fact.

It's a cult think

I don't care that he doesn't aim criticism at his friend – and I'll acknowledge his integrity in admitting why. Bill Kenwright has a lot of friends in the media doing his work who do not disclose such friendships.

He doesn't really aim much at Moshiri either. Just comments that the club is failing under his tenure, which is objectively fair. Plus a dig at where the money might have been coming from, which is less objective but probably true.

After the long fluff sections, he poses an existential question. Then wraps it up in a couple of sentences with the conclusion that it'll probably be alright. Doesn't exactly pull at the blue heart strings.

I cannot believe the notion that, despite the lies, incompetence and lack of commercial viability under Kenwright, all the present debacles under Kenwright's Chairmanship are down to Moshiri!

I know people have never understood that he never had the money or sense to take up any opportunity the Premier League offered, while others did, but to ignore the facts as pure supposition is fantasy.

It's a cult I think..

Perspective... always a leveller.

Barry, the rot had set years earlier, when Kenwright, desperate to hold onto his trainset, wouldn't entertain any sale that didn't let him stay in the limelight. He's a thespian and loves the attention. He turned us into ‘plucky little Everton' punching above our weight.

From Kings Dock and his refusal to allow Paul Gregg to put the £30M in, to the Fortress Sports Fund's ‘cheque in the post', through to the "Magnificent Seventh" DVD, to the Destination Kirkby debacle, he had presided over turning one of the England's biggest clubs into an also-ran and then into perennial relegation strugglers.

Managed decline and suppressing expectations, with Moyes, the glass ceiling headbutter, at the helm for 11 years. Moshiri and others are certainly not blameless either but there is one common, ever-present factor in everything that has happened – and it's a certain theatre impresario.

Kenwright should have gone when Moshiri came in. Moshiri should have recruited a competent board to run the club. He didn't, and the blame for our present predicament is shared without doubt.

I disagree with you that it was Rafa Benitez who turned Everton from mid-table struggler to desperate relegation candidates, Mike. He was definitely a toxic appointment, but I think when Ancelotti decided to tell Real Madrid that, if they were struggling financially, they could get him for nothing, then the writing was already on the wall.

Not that it matters because we are where we are, but I think any manager who wasn't allowed to spend any money, then lost the spine of his team after a fairly bright start to the new season, would have seen his team go rapidly downhill.

But kudos to Bill Kenwright anyway, because I'm sure he didn't want to get rid of James Rodriguez either, even though things were already pointing towards us becoming a not financially viable football club.

Exactly. Selective outrage. Moshiri seems to be fair game for everyone but woe betide anyone pointing a finger at Bill.

If Viner feels uncomfortable about discussing his mate, he could have just declined the opportunity to write the story. In reality, it seems as Christine alludes to that Bill's PR machine is in full flow after his disastrous open letter to fans.

First, we had Bill's other mate, Dominic King, with his "poor old Sharpey" story which sounded an awful lot like Bill's open letter. Now we have Viner with the focus on Moshiri, a point he further emphasized on Twitter.

No doubt we will see a nice piece from Prentice over the weekend lauding Bill. Wouldn't be surprised, whatever the outcome on Sunday, for Moyes to offer a few words of support too for the "Greatest Evertonian." All of it is orchestrated and disingenuous.

Our current relegation fight stems from poor governance, poor recruitment, poor transfers, poor management and overall a basket case of a football club over the last few years. That's on the owner.

That doesn't absolve Kenwright, just as it doesn't absolve Thelwell. But it's the owner who is accepting of these standards – both still have the jobs they are spectacularly failing in.

Surely the issue with your version is all your allegations have been ever present during the Kenwright reign but without the disasters. They only appeared with Moshiri

If changing the text gives you a different perspective, I'm sure that helps you, but it does nothing to alter reality based on fact.

Sorry.

I agree with most of what you say but the debacles since Moshiri have been unprecedented. Unequivocally the blame lies with him.

In the 1960’s we had the complete package, a rich owner, a top manager, top players, and 50+ thousand rabid Evertonians at every home game.

Apart from a brief period in the 1980’s when we had the players, the manager, and the fans, who rose above the problems within the club, we have not been at the races since the beginning of the 70’s.

The mentality and culture of any organisation is heavily influenced from the top down. So my view is it’s been a decline over a 50 year period.

I think our owner has made mistakes but if we are going to have a dig at him for them we have to acknowledge his determination to build the stadium. The reason that project is going so well is because he appointed the right man in Colin Chong. Someone who is obviously good at his job and knows what that job is. When the stadium is completed he should be retained by the owner. Good people are hard to find.

He may very well sell out but, if as I suspect, he want’s to finish what he started he will have to identify and appoint board members and a “change manager” CEO to introduce a new culture and mentality from the top to the bottom of the club. In other words Nil Satis Nisi Optimum.

Sorry, mate, but I have to clock you down as an acceptor of mediocrity.

Neville Chamberlain rivalled this type of tripe with his 1939 claim when he came back from a personal meeting with Hitler with a piece of bog-roll in his hand claiming that it guaranteed peace.

Yeah, right.

"Now" is, by years, grossly inaccurate.

"The Magic" disappeared in the 1980's to any sighted/sentient fan. The current decision makers have now buried it too deep even for Indiana Jones to find.

"Hurt/Angry" is akin to someone today realising for the first time, after having repeatedly voted for the lying, self-serving total bastard Boris Johnson, that "they may have made a mistake" - not that the cretinous Brian Viner has that scintilla of accountability (as a Mail journo though, how could he?).

"Bewildered" only describes people with a lesser IQ than an amoeba.

Other than that it's bob-on........ NOT.

I still believe that no single moment contributed quite as much to our current situation as the moment Moshiri handed Rafa a contract.

To those singling out the word "bewildered" in the headline of the article and blaming Viner for it, know that article writers don't write their own headlines. Their editors do.

Also, the last word in the world I would assign to the gentlemanly Viner is "cretinous", so given the amoebic-IQ source of that insult, it's nice to know that irony lives and thrives on this site.

We went from one disaster to the next well before Moshiri entered. Kenwright had to borrow the money to buy the club, meaning, simply, he could not fund it. To do so:

He sold off or mortgaged every asset we had, the ground, the training facility,
He loaned money against future season ticket sales,
He got into bed with Messer's Green and Earl,
He borrowed money through them from shady, high-interest offshore loans with extortionate interest payments,
He tried to convince fans that Goodison was a health and safety risk to sway a vote to Kirkby and a £50M windfall coming from Tesco that didn't exist,
The 24/7 search for a new owner that wasn't,
Stifling shareholders and cancelling AGMs,

And much much more – all before Moshiri.

None of the above are allegations, Barry, they are facts. Disastrous consequences for the club even before Moshiri.

As I said, responsibility for failures since Moshiri came on board are down to the owner and the board who have the direct responsibility to run the club for the benefit of all shareholders, to make sound financial decisions based on operating cash flow and profit and loss. As Chairman, failures to do so are Kenwright's responsibility.

Sound management has been missing for some 25 years or more, but the disasters you allude to were made by owner and board who failed to govern correctly. It didn't just happen with Moshiri.

However, you live in a country where Nazi-ism is alive and well in the persona of Trump and his thick-as-bricks fans (and I respect that you abhor him, as I do).

Over here, Gary Lineker recently went public citing right-wing pronouncements (not their end results) by politicians as very reminiscent of 1930s Germany, and we all know what the appalling cost was in WW2 given such pronouncements in the '30s.

In the UK, we have a rampantly pro-right-wing daily newspaper, namely the Mail (there are others marginally less strident). Viner writes for it to his own advantage. They profit from him.

You can bet your life that Moshiri, Kenwright, Earl, Green and those now in hoc to them for an opulent salary, such as the totally talentless board, are devotees of the Mail (if they have the ability to read, that is).

I don't want to criticise any other Everton fan (aside from the now disappeared Darren Hind, I suppose).

I'll leave criticism of fellow fans to you and others, but it's in no way what I adhere to after 60 years of unstinting allegiance to our club.

Yom tov.

Give me notice of your second-ever visit to our home!

Watch out, mate – Viner reads ToffeeWeb as I discovered when he twice Tweeted about my post at number 2 today!

However, he rather ridiculed you quite successfully in the sort of restrained and well-worded style that was a million miles away from your post at number 2. You came/come out from all of this quite poorly despite the crowing tone of your post at number 67.

Hugs from the Midwest, Paul.

He can call me out all he wants. I'd gladly talk to him.

That's not me being confrontational, nor am I doubting his passion for the club.

But I would gladly give him my opinion if he is reading.

It's amazing how some authors position themselves and conveniently leave some people out of their appraisal of our situation. Why is that?

Obviously survival in the Premier League is massive for this club; if we stay in the Premier League, those responsible for the demise of our club had better listen to the fans and the manager, because we cannot sustain another season in the Premier League with the quality of some of the players that we have at the moment. Yet another rebuild, with financial constraints, is on the cards.

Divide and conquer, has always been the main tactic used by Bill Kenwright so nothing has really changed except a lot more people are now wise to his self-centered actions as he desperately tries to cling on to something he's losing.

Divide and conquer the fan base.

We don't always have, or need to have, the same opinions, but increasingly, the support base is overwhelmingly united in its feelings.

And that's not me talking from ToffeeWeb. It's what I hear daily talking to family and friends. And what I witness every single match I am fortunate enough to attend.

Our support for those players on the pitch will not waiver, and it doesn't, but we are not divided anymore in wanting change.

We've got our short-term fate in our hands on Sunday. That is down to the manager, players and supporters, who have been left on their own. Don't start me on that.

But then our long-term fate has to be sorted in the summer. And that starts with a clear-out of those absent seats in the Main Stand.

At the end of the day I realised that the article and subsequent posts were taking us away from other Everton fans urging us to to concentrate on the main object for the last game of the season is Everton staying up and plenty of Bluenoses have been doing exactly that, whether Mr. Viner’s article is good, bad or indifferent he is an Evertonian with an opinion about the state of the club, let’s leave it at that I’m only interested, at the moment, in Everton FC’s survival in the premier league and existence as a going concern.

Come on you Blues let’s get those three points on Sunday.

I liked the article, I saw it as a Blue seeing where we are and dreading what might happen. Like all of us are doing.

I think this is common to us all. Who we blame for the mess is a subject for endless debate and hopefully positive action by those who have the power to do so.

Moshiri is ultimately to blame though. It was a ticking time bomb and, whilst I believe Rafa was supported early on, it was a ticking time bomb and everyone knew it.

The season before, under Carlo, whilst we imploded towards the end of the season, there was certainly a feel-good factor around the club. After he left, the next appointment was vital.

Rafa completely divided the club and we haven't really been the same since. I also believe the drop in players' form and confidence started under Rafa and that isn't a shock.

Ultimately, the blame is always with the owner and the board. They make the calls and live or die by them. Hopefully MSP have the hands-on approach that the rags claim they want because I fail to see how they could run us any worse than currently.

This is not a defence of Bill Kenwright because his appalling record for most of his tenure speaks for itself but surely we're above gossip and fabrication when that's what it is?

One thing that we seem unable to do is ask questions such as "Why?"; "What were the alternatives?" etc. I'd be very interested to find the truth about what really happened at Everton and what Kenwright did and why – but based on facts, not gossip and unsubstantiated opinion.

I'd could say that, as fans, we don't know the half of it, but that is a gross overestimation.

He swallowed his bullshit and let him keep hold of the reins; meanwhile, Kenwright spunked his money up the wall in an attempt to make himself the greatest Evertonian on earth.

The man has no values (Kenwright, that is) he has recently...well you all know what he's tried to do to save his skin, but thankfully he's shot himself in the foot.

His latest trick of employing DBB as "Chairman" though and then trying to blame "her" for the state of the club is abhorrent, she is/was out of her depth and I'm convinced he knew this and wanted a patsy.

I hope to god, if we survive on Sunday, there is no pitch invasion. The FA will points deduct us in a heartbeat and Billy Boy will jump all over that and blame the fans... again.

Let's focus on Sunday – nothing else matters til after the game!

Hopefully that won't be superceded by relegation on Sunday.

Martin,

A lot of what is aimed at Kenwright is fact. Because it isn't written down, doesn't mean it's not true. You should talk to some people who know that there is factual support for some of his little manouvres.

Moshiri is the same as Al Capon's Accountant: there to launder dirty money. If the club was sold for nothing, it will not change his or his bosses, it wasn't their money in the first case.

You could blame Kenwright and the board for seeing the £-signs and thinking this is salvation, but then so did a large proportion of Everton supporters.

So a great number of people are to blame for this mess – including people who make comments on this forum.

We never had catastrophes of this magnitude under Kenwright – that really is an unassailable fact.

Look, I get you want to criticise him and there are reasons to do so but this epoch of disaster is not one of them; we face oblivion because something dramatically changed.

Kenwright took over in 1999 and appointed two managers in 17 years. Moshiri arrived in 2016 and has been through six already. Add in the catastrophe that is the DOF model (he's now on his 3rd) and it's clear to any fair-minded individual where the blame lies.

You characterise others' arguments as "tenuous supposition dressed up as fact." In contrast, you claim your arguments are "logic" and "reality based on fact."

In your head, your inner narrative may appear as logic and fact. To the rest of the world, it is just opinion.

And, I respect Christine's opinions more.

It is fact we were never in this position under Kenwright to infer or say otherwise is utter delusion.

Sorry, but you're just wrong.

None as blind as those that don't want to see or as deaf as those who don't want to hear. 🤷

They appeared in the same newspaper 2-3 days before season-defining matches on consecutive weekends.

Someone is laying down the narrative lines with friendly and tame journos before the inquest starts into this season's debacle – relegation threatened, 3 managers in 2 seasons, dysfunctional recruitment, war declared on supporters, breaking Premier League financial rules, boardroom changes as a result of minority investment.

I wonder who it could be…?

People aren't delusional simply because they don't agree with you.

Rein in the ego a bit.

Who hand-picked Moshiri?

You made an assertion that was proven wrong; be man enough to admit it and park the ego.

Not sure what your point is.

If you think Kenwright should have been clairvoyant enough to spot the impending disaster of Moshiri, then shouldn't that apply to you and the majority whooping for joy at the news?

Personally, I don't think 'second sight' is a thing.

Well, I wouldn't want him to do my laundry.

He'd lose the fucking lot in the baggy (scouse term).

And by your reckoning "we" are also culpable... give me strength.

I have always wanted a Ferrari, sell my house, possibly able to buy one, can I afford to keep it maintained and fit for purpose!!! Not a chance in hell.

I believe Kenwright appears to be a high-profile carpet bagger!! Only self-serving, a good business man has both commercial and self awareness which has been shown time and time again not to be the case.

Finally no stand should bare Kenwright's name in the new stadium at Bramley-Moore Dock. At a push, maybe toilets – so we can all piss and shite on Kenwright like he has to our loyal fan base and club.

I can't figure out which bits of that post are some kind of joke or whether they're just completely inaccurate.

Was it god who pointed that out to you when you were having your regular daily conversation?

Keep checking that well-thumbed thesaurus though. Look up fact, logic, and then reflect on reality.

Keep arguing away, let's forget everything else and look back with absolute joy at all the great times we have had since we last won a trophy.

I've stated it many times but, if I could take over our neighbours, and do a similar job to the one our saviour has done with us, I'd die a very, very, very happy man. And that, my friends, is an absolute fact…. Honestly.

If my poor memory serves me right, Moshiri didn't have a majority shareholding at the start, did he? Whatever decisions were made on change of managers, use of DoFs, purchase of players etc, these decisions would be passed by the board, and maybe the shareholders. So while he was/is Chairman, he is where the buck stops.

He has the board and the shareholders for support, and also to be accountable to (till he didn't like what they called him to account about and cancelled the Everton Shareholders Annual General Meetings).

So, in my humble, mere non-clairvoyant capacity, Kenwright could have stopped Moshiri from having any control that he didn't want him to have.

The fact that he didn't seems to me that, at the very least, Kenwright didn't know what he was doing as Chairman of Everton FC, and therefore was a dribbling duffer unaware of his powers and responsibilities.

Or he was fully aware… and was at the least complicit, if not guiding Moshiri, in EFC's Recruitment strategy. Hence, the mess we are in.

The same person who Kenwright threw under the bus when he tried to distance himself from the shitshow that is Evwerton FC.

Who employed her as a scapegoat... I wonder?

Kenwright may or may not currently be the worst Chairman in the Premier League, or any league for that matter. It's hard to tell as the actual owner of the club - or more accurately, the front for the real owner - couldn't find his dick with both hands.

As Barry says, 17 years and only two managers, plus European football. Then the Iranian Vic Reeves and the eastern bloc's answer to Jabba the Hutt turn up and, hey fucking presto, dog shit decisions across the board, leading to our current plight (potential relegation and financial investigations).

And don't give me the "it was Kenwright wot brought them in" bollocks. Usmanov owned a 30% stake in Arsenal and Moshiri was his business associate. That's about as much due diligence as anyone needed at the time. You lot would have fellated the pair of them to get them into EFC if it had been necessary.

Everton's position as at 25th May 2023 rests squarely on the shoulders of its majority shareholder and the man that pulls the strings behind him.

But keep laying into Barry because you don't agree with his opinion. As every bully knows, that always proves how right you are...

Is that including yourself?

I raise a glass in your honour. Thank you.

But that's predicated on the old sore: What power and influence has Kenwright had over the last 7 years as Chairman of Everton FC to control, influence, dictate or affect the course of the club and the company?

Yes, Moshiri came in... but he did not take a position on the Board and, in his own words, expected to spend about 5% of his time on Everton. Maybe culpability lies somewhere 5% of his time and 100% of his money?

But to claim anything as 'fact' amongst this nonsense is surely facile and unnecessarily divisive at this precarious moment in time.

No Paul, what he did was to ignore the point I was making about people allowing personal relationships to blind them, ignore the point I'd since conceded my choice of analogy was poor, and instead he responded to other people criticizing his defense of Bill by portraying himself as a victim.

When that didn't work, he further misrepresented what I'd said (not to him directly which was also something he misrepresented) and removed mention of the familial relationship I'd referenced and Tweeted another Tweet inferring I'd compared him to a specific individual when I had not. He threw in a few insults too.

If that passes for eloquent redress up on your sanctimonious hall monitor high-horse, then bully for you. To me, it just makes him look a lot like his deflecting victim-portraying mate.

On Kenwright's watch, Moyes finished on 39 points – a record low for us at the time. He sold Rooney cheaply then finished 4th – but was that luck or judgement?

We also started one season with a midfield duo of Jagielka and Baxter while he was trying to beg money off Philip Green. He sold Arteta on deadline day, didn't replace him, then mislaid the money.

The only reason we didn't completely fall apart was that, in Moyes, he found a subservient miracle worker.

By the way, once you post a floater and lose some credibility, no-one is looking for you to define the standards of posting.

Directors run the business day to day. They are legally responsible for what goes on at the business. Their legal duties are to act in the best interests of the business and not the shareholders.

With your impassioned defence of Kenwright, who has remained a company director since making himself a very wealthy man from selling his shares to Moshiri, are you suggesting that he is not a fit and proper company director and should be investigated for failing to act on his legal and fiduciary duties of acting in the best interests of the company?

Did he??…….

(Maybe won't work in the written word.)

Regardless of the precarious position we find ourselves in, Barry is entitled to counter this with some 'facts' of his own. What he is arguing, and there is both logic and fact contained in his argument, is that Everton had 17 years of relative stability, and success of sorts, prior to the Moshiri & Usmanov arrival. What has happened since speaks for itself.

Frankly, how anyone can use the words of Moshiri – Alisher Usmanov's closest business partner – as mitigation of his performance at the club is beyond me. Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but the picture with regard to their relationship and their respective influences over Everton seems pretty clear.

I frequently see unchallenged comments on TW (there's one in this thread), stating that Kenwright pulled the wool over Moshiri's eyes. That's right, a billionaire businessman, business partner to an even richer member of Putin's inner-circle, gets hoodwinked by teary-eyed luvvie, Bill Kenwright.

Farhad Moshiri owns 94% of Everton Football Club. If Kenwright is causing untold damage to the club – and I would argue that such allegations are based on (at best) conjecture – it still comes down to Moshiri. It's his club and he can place anyone he wants in a position of power.

And finally, if he's signed some ridiculous contract that means Kenwright can't be ousted (another perennial ToffeeWeb favourite) then he's even more clearly the shittest billionaire businessman that's ever lived, ie, it's stil his fault.

‘Seems pretty clear' needs some context and so on. Some of us are really trying to follow the argument. Please don't make that such a chase.

That's all.

Barry's getting bullied on here? Read his post at (52) to another poster, Jesus, he has a go in a quiet way, except with that one, not many agree with him. Then you come on in your browbeating way, telling everyone how wrong they are to blame Kenwright, the Chairman who has been left in control of the club, so Moshiri's mistake is trusting him.

I don't know how long you have been supporting Everton, it makes little difference, but the lies and deceit of Kenwright go back a long time and are all in black and white; if you are not old enough to remember them, you must have read about them.

Moshiri put half a billion or more into Everton, hasn't taken anything out yet. Nobody knows how much Kenwright put into Everton, if anything, but he has taken plenty out with more to come.

Anyway, I trust you and Barry will be supporting the club at Goodison on Sunday, cheering the team on, no matter what your points of view are.

But if that were the case:

(1) Moshiri should remove him and any other Directors that are not acting in the best interests of EFC; and

(2) If he doesn't, it's Moshiri's fault.

See how this argument keeps going round?

What I'm saying is that it takes some naivety to trust the words of a man who is the 'No 1 business associate of Alisher Usmanov', himself Vladimir Putin's closest ally. If that seems a bit too conspiratorial, I'll raise you this:

If he was only using 5% of his time on Everton, that clearly amounted to the odd embarrassing 'phone call to Jim White. Or did Kenwright put him up to that too?

Only two managers in 17 seasons but not even one trophy put in the cabinet still equals relative stability and success of sorts? With an attitude like this, I think it becomes easy to see why the once mighty Everton have fallen from grace so easily.

Compared to where we're sat today, it's success... of sorts.

I remember our 2002-03 end-of-season DVD being called 'The Magnificent 7th'. Embarrassing really but it shows the sense of relief after what came before.

It's not some made-up role that they've given her so she can carry the can while Kenwright actually runs the club. She runs the club!

Thanks again, I can work with this and concede your point. Now, I am offering that it is only partially an explanation of the overall clusterfuck.

Do I need to go through my list of effects running the other way? Hint: who brought that guy in? How did 17 good years suddenly get infected? And so on.

That Kenwright is innocent because we were stable until Moshiri came isn't a logical conclusion. Moshiri's takeover gave Kenwright as Chairman something that had kept him in check previously and that was spending power, which is real power, and now with no real businessmen to keep him in check.

I don't differentiate in blame allocation between the two as they are just two faces of the same coin and equally to blame, that is 100% for both of them.

Is Kenwright evil? No, he is exactly what he says he is, a true Blue. Unfortunately, while he could keep the club surviving well in the Moyes era, he was incapable of running the club with money available and yet results went badly.

"That Kenwright is innocent because we were stable until Moshiri came isn't a logical conclusion."

You hit the nail on the head. This also goes to the issue of divide and conquer that the Abrahams and Danny mentioned.

Kenwright and his acolytes have been blaming Moshiri for everything bad (and there's been a lot obviously) since Koeman arrived. But at the same time. Kenwrightwas front and center as the great negotiator who bought Patterson when we were between managers. How could he do that if he has no say over anything?

Charity case Jose Baxter was re-signed by the club as an over-age player for the Under-23s due to a combination of Kenwright and Unsworth, as stated by Unsie publicly. So he has the authority to sign a player that has zero value to the club but ,at the same time he's a marginalized figurehead who ceded all control to the mad Moshiri?

Both Moshiri and Kenwright are guilty of failure, as are many others, but they are at the top of the list.

As CEO she is responsible for the day-to-day running of the club in a way effectively that the Owner and Chairman want? She would have a say on key decisions as a board member but a bit part compared with Blue Bill.

This thread is apportioning blame now yet it doesn't matter, we are where we are now and on Sunday, the Team and Coach get my absolute support and hopes for survival. I won't be going unfortunately.

Monday will one way or another be a new chapter. Going down will make this a very difficult chapter

Claiming 'fact' for what is at best conjecture or supposition does nothing for your belligerent stance.

"17 years of relative stability, and success of sorts" – I would prefer to characterise it as managed stagnation and decline through abject mediocrity.

"What has happened since speaks for itself." Sorry but it doesn't because you don't know the causation. You don't know the detail. None of us do. None of us knows the chain of command, which decisions were made by whom. To absolve anyone in such a circumstances, as you and Barry seem so keen to do regarding Kenwright, seems deliberately contrarian.

I love the logic you use to reject Moshiri's words. Does this logic apply to all of them, I wonder? Everything he has ever said? Perhaps you can extend it to everything he's ever done:

Frankly, how anyone can use the money of Moshiri – Alisher Usmanov's closest business partner – as mitigation of his performance at the club is beyond me. After all, he's only using it to build a stadium for his own benefit!

"The picture with regard to their relationship and their respective influences over Everton seems pretty clear." Does it? Only based on your interpretation that what they may (or may not) have done. Despite your claims to the contrary, the 'facts' are clearly very opaque. I defy you to know anything substantive about their relationship.

And it doesn't need some bizarre contract for Kenwright to have remained in post as Chairman. Nor is it unreasonable to expect the responsibilities of that role as Chairman of the football club to have changed substantially – which is exactly why people blame him in his position of responsibility for what has happened to the football club.

He’s obviously not silly because he’s made himself an absolute fortune, but he’s getting old, and he must realize that he can’t take his money with him. Whatever legacy he might have perceived for himself in his dreams, has also slowly evaporated, with most people now feeling nothing but contempt, for this very cash rich human-being.

"What has happened since speaks for itself." Sorry but it doesn't because you don't know the causation. You don't know the detail. None of us do. None of us knows the chain of command, which decisions were made by whom. To absolve anyone in such a circumstances, as you and Barry seem so keen to do regarding Kenwright, seems deliberately contrarian.

As I said in my original post:

"Kenwright may or may not currently be the worst Chairman in the Premier League, or any league for that matter. It's hard to tell as the actual owner of the club - or more accurately, the front for the real owner - couldn't find his dick with both hands."

I'm not absolving Kenwright of responsibility. I'm neutral when it comes to him and, as I've said before, I'm prepared to consider actual facts and change that opinion, if appropriate. That this makes me look like some form of extremist says more about the accepted narrative on TW than it does about me. What's the point of running a website that gives a platform for fan opinion if you're going to shutdown 'dissent'? And if I seem belligerent, consider it the result of seeing the same 'facts' trotted out unchallenged ad infinitum, when, as you say, none of us know the detail.

I've been on the board at various companies and held shares to various degrees, including as majority shareholder. In that time I've seen several minority shareholder Chairmen who are nothing more than figureheads, relieved of much if not all actual responsibility. Likewise, I've seen Directors that are given little or no opportunity for input; majority shareholders that, behind the scenes, almost solely drive the direction a business is heading etc etc. Having been party to that first-hand, and with respect, it would be pretty fucking stupid of me to pretend otherwise and accept the baying mob's summary of a complex situation, as promoted by ToffeeWeb i.e. It's Kenwright's fault.

I may have been Billy No-Mates, but I did not want them near the club. Everyman and his dog knew that dirty Russian Mafia money was flooding into London and finding people in high places to accept it.

The other very big mistake was wanting to build a new stadium. You need a team before a stadium and if you want evidence, look around the UK and see all these White Elephants, most now in the lower divisions.

Kenwright is a major shareholder and Chairman of the board. Real owner aside, he is the most powerful man at the club and he has been until now from the start of the disaster.

For the Moyes years, it went well and I defended him many times here but, for me, Moyes going marked the turning point – not Moshiri coming. Apart from what could be seen as a fluke first season under Martinez, we have been downhill since then and Moshiri's arrival did nothing to stop it.

The manager-go-round actually started in 2013 not 2016 too. When you look at the above, a logical and reasonable conclusion is that the strength in the Moyes - Kenwright partnership was Moyes and, left to his own devices, Kenwright was hopeless.

The reason why many on ToffeeWeb blame Kenwright for our current situation is because that is the conclusion that a reasonable person would draw from what happened. We don't know exactly, of course, but then again neither do you nor Barry.

You're entitled to your opinion but it isn't fact, sorry, and not necessarily any bettter than the imagined ToffeeWeb Hoi Polloi that you sneer down your nose at.

We never had the present levels of catastrophe under Kenwright. That is an unassailable fact.

Saying “Maybe culpability lies somewhere 5% of his time and 100% of his money?” regarding Moshiri is more supposition.

But my point (and dare I say that of others) is if pitchforks and lit torches are the order of the day, surely the rush to personal persecution should be predicated on facts.

Or maybe I'm old-fashioned.

Martin (164) - He owns 1.3% of Everton. If that’s ‘major’, can I have 98.7% of your assets please? You can keep a major portion of them.

And less of the insults lowering yourself to playground intelligence. 🤷

The fact you took it literally compounds why I really don't want to interact with you.

Whatever happened before 2016 was on Kenwright's watch, and whatever happened after that was on Moshiri's. Of course that's far too simplistic for a complicated situation, but we really have nothing else to go on until one or the other leaves the club, and we may find out very little even then. Personally I strongly doubt that the details of the relationship between the two of them will ever be made public.

On to Sunday, which is really all that matters right now. As Jimmy Buffett sang, "Come Monday, it'll be all right."

"The other very big mistake was wanting to build a new stadium.
You need a team before a stadium and if you want evidence, look around the UK and see all these White Elephants, most now in the lower divisions"

Absolutely bang on.

Unless Moshiri pulls a big oil sheikh out of the hat, any financial critique of the previous regime will pale into insignificance compared to what's on the horizon.

We are absolutely fucked.

Either way, citations/links or whatever please.

BTW – My Dad is a lifelong blue. Raised in Kirkdale, married at Walton Church. Even had his wedding reception at The Mons. He's always said that he hates the fact the RS nicked that song as he's always loved it.

Careful what you say, Mike…

For god's sake please, please desist.

I'm asking for the second time don't refer or interact with me — your insanity leaves no anchor point for coherent debate.

What would you like me to say? Is this all because I said that you accept mediocrity?

Money cannot be idiotic, it is just money, the necessary lubricant for EPL success. The fact that almost all of it was spaffed up the wall is not entirely or even mostly down to him and I guess he's entitled to spaff a bit of it.

Kenwright on the other hand brought nothing. He is basically a parasite, a great big tapeworm wrapped around our great club. If Viner doesn't want to kick him when he's down, no problem – there's already a big queue.

Philip Green was involved in guarantees for the credit with the RBS and seems to have oiled the wheels of the purchase. Which was mortgaged back to the same bank soon after.

He owned 26%, bought for £8 or 9M, with the help of these Green backed loans, then sold half of that for 23m., then sold all but 1.3% sold again to Mr Moshiri. I don't know how much for, but if it was a similar amount it means that Mr Kenwright has made about £35-40m out of Everton without risking an awful lot of his personal wealth.

Nobody really knows the full details, and even this lot above is probably very inaccurate too, anyway it's one interpretation from people putting two and two together and having a stab at the answer.

Yes, we did lose to Grimsby but it was at home not away as the article appears to promote. Paul Wilkinson headed the winner in the last few minutes from a free kick. One of their few efforts. Then we signed him. Another one of our great mis-signings.

Clearly, Mr Viner is referring to the defeat in October 1979, sorry to labour the point, as I don't mind being proved incorrect when that is the case, but I feel that on this occasion I'm correct.

Grimsby 1979

Then in February 1976, when I was 14, he abruptly died. It was a traumatic time to lose a father, but on the upside I gained a season-ticket.

For the next few years I followed my team home and away, bunking off school to make interminable rain-swept journeys to evening games in places like Middlesbrough and Grimsby (for an infamous League Cup defeat) that felt like crossing the Russian steppes. Admittedly, it no longer looked like I had backed a winner.

Three days before the opening Bill Kenwright, a former National Youth Theatre member and avid Liverpool fan, walked in and declared in hurt disbelief: "You have not used the song of the Kop – You'll Never Walk Alone."

Was there another young actor walking around the North-West in the mid-1960s by the name of Bill Kenwright? Had the author got it wrong? Who knows?

Neither is totally to blame and neither is absolved in any way. The failure to run, manage and control the football club falls squarely on both shoulders. It was badly run under Kenwright; it has been badly run under Moshiri, the only common thread through both periods has been Bill Kenwright.

The levels of responsibility are clear as a chairman and director, clearly something that he has manifestly failed to do. From pauper to owning the sweetshop, his tenure has failed to deliver and has seen the demise in standing of this once great club.

Moshiri, despite his standing and wealth, trusted Bill Kemwright to manage in conjunction with the board, all things football. Clearly that didn't happen either, a poor board and an owner who took bad advice. The train set changed hands but neither of them where ever on the same track.

Bill Kenwright's wait in bringing us the right man seems a bitter joke now, the only person in this whole continuing soap opera to come out as a winner is Kenwright himself. Perhaps Moshiri can do deals to limit his loss or even profit from this adventure but at the moment it looks unlikely. Sometimes you have to walk away and admit it didn't work.

Blame? Different circumstances at different times saw two owners, one a relative pauper, the other a richman who trusted the pauper. But there was a reason the pauper sold, because he failed and blamed his failure on anyone and everyone but himself. The richman believe the pauper story that the reason he failed was a lack of money. It wasn't.

And so the fairy story ends and the two ugly sisters are looking for another Prince Charming (mug) — a sorry tale that has caused much fear and discontent in the land.

I might be wrong, but I can't recall ever seeing a picture with Bill from the 1960s or early 1970s and any Everton player or at any venue. There's a few from the time he became a member of the board, but not in his early years.

I wish Cyril's bike had gotten a puncture on the way to Goodison in the 1950s.

Can anyone on here imagine being converted to a red aged 18-21? It's impossible. It's a strange story that isn't trying to be malicious or anything, it's just stating something that happened. The ‘recollections may vary' line will be applied.

There was an episode of the awful sitcom 'The Liver Birds' called 'Liverpool or Everton' (series 3, episode 12 - May 5 1972) that featured fathead playing the boyfriend of one of the main characters.

Here's the plot line from IMDB...

"Whilst Beryl is a die-hard Everton football fan, Sandra's newest boy-friend Joe supports Liverpool so the battle lines are drawn, especially after Joe's works team, which he captains, is thrashed 7 - 0 and Beryl mocks him. He challenges her to come with a female football team to take his boys on. It's up to Beryl's Uncle Dermot to get them all into some sort of shape!"

Liverpool or Everton plot

Who played the RS-loving Joe? Old fathead himself. The prosecution rests.

I doubt anybody on the board will leave for a few more months yet and certainly not the Chairman. If somebody proclaims to be the greatest Blue ever, surely it's only fair to examine that claim and check as to its authenticity?

We criticised him for that. And rightly so.

Moshiri had great ambition. He took his shot. New stadium, the best signings we could convince to come. But it was scattergun. No great plan. No real strategy. Poor performers at board level were tolerated. He was completely out of his depth and rightly gets criticism for that.

In this league, when you take your shot, you have to make it. Miss, and you're left with costs without things like European football income to balance them.

It's irretrievable for all involved now.

For us, let's just hope we survive until the next people come in and then hope that they can balance ambition and sustainability better than the last guys. It's a long road back.

Moshiri was "old school" in that he believed success could be achieved by appointing the "right" manager and backing them financially. A professional Board, experienced CEO and savy Chairman...not so important in Moshiri's grand plan.

Unfortunately his managerial appointments fell well short...

"It's like watching a relative with a terminal illness", really?

Shame on you for using that example. I used to think you were an intelligent man, but likening Everton's woes to that really is taking the example far too far.

You’re taking the example far too seriously - and you know you are.

We’re all old enough and ugly enough on here to know that football is the most important unimportant thing out there.

Obviously, OBVIOUSLY, a valued family member dying of a terminal illness is worse.

But the analogy still stands up: a long drawn out and painful journey towards an uncertain but probably difficult conclusion.

It’s up to you if you wish to chastise good Evertonians because you’re being literal (and expect that they are too). But I’d suggest it’s worth worrying about something else matey.

It was a build it on the pitch and the rest will follow type approach.

But on the pitch we've had no identity, signed players that didn't fit or weren't required, failed to address more glaring deficiencies.

It's hard to say Moshiri's approach couldn't have worked. We spent good money and failed to improve the team. Every element failed from the pitch up to the owner.

Any kind of transfer strategy would have been better than what we got. Some players the owner wanted, some the manager wanted, and some that were just a club with new money throwing it around and signing whoever took it.

If we do go, I do hope we all remember just how much of a cause he is.

Yes, the board just as much…..but make no bones, he broke us.

on the back of his work here, Lampard continues to consolidate his ineffectiveness. With Chelsea's better squad, in his almost 8 weeks there since replacing Potter, Chelsea have been below Everton in the form table for the entire time.

However, I won't entirely slag him. Over that 8-game stretch last spring starting with the ManU win and ending with the Palace game, he had us playing with as much passion and inspiration as any of us could have asked for, and we got 14 of a possible 24 to stay up. His joy after the Palace game was palpable.

Unlike Koeman and Benitez, he really cared and gave his all, and I give him points for that.

Lampard as a manager was perplexing. On paper, he ticked a lot of boxes. He had family pedigree of good managers and coaches. He's smart. Players seemed to respect him. He seemed to motivate them. He has been there done it and got the tee-shirt.

He was astute enough to bring in coaches who seemed to cover the areas where he was lacking. And yet, all-in-all, Mike Walker puts him in the shade when you consider his Norwich tenure. As our neighbours across the channel say he obviously missed a je ne sais quo.

Buck up if you want to retain a modicum of credibility!!!! :) :)

Echoing Ben, unfortunately I imagine most of us have seen a terminally ill loved one pass away and it's nothing to joke about. However, I'm sure Colin was speaking figuratively from his sentimental perspective as another of us irrational grown men so concerned about the sporting prowess of a bunch of strangers we don't personally know.

Colin is clearly an intelligent guy but more importantly, based on his years of posts he's also a thoroughly decent bloke. I can understand how you equating it with real life would be offended but I'm sure that was not his intent mate.

I think he's a romantic who saw Everton and thought 'I love that challenge of awakening a sleeping giant'. Then saw Chelsea and thought the former player could help them in their hour of need.

What he should have seen was two basket cases that a smart manager would not go anywhere near.

In terms of on the pitch tactical ability he's obviously questionable. But it's hard to judge anyone who manages Everton. Likewise this current Chelsea setup.

The judgement I can make of him is that he makes very bad choices.

I can't wait for this miserable season to come to an end with West Ham 4 points ahead of Bournemouth in the table!

The only group that seem confident about our chances on Sunday seem to be the bookies – all of whom seem to have us as favourites.

Perhaps any posters more familiar with the sports betting industry could give their thoughts?

I disagree with you slightly. This loved one wasn't and isn't terminal. It was sick and malnourished and, if it had received the right medication at the time, it would be flourishing now. It just needs some nourishment.

If you don't water and feed a plant, it dies; we aren't at that stage yet. No matter where we are next season, the Everton Phoenix will rise again.

Everton mean so much to so many. I have said it before but loving Everton started when you were born and only ends when you die. If there are pearly gates, they are painted Royal Blue.

Point is, for many of us, it truly is the love of our life. Friends and family come and go, The one thing that is always there is Everton. Now, its very existence is threatened by people with dubious motives.

Tears would never be enough to banish the feeling of betrayal. Nothing would ever make me forgive those whose treatment of our club saw its demise. I could banish them from my memory if we stay up... but I could never do that if we don't.

I don't care who is playing or not. The 11 on the pitch have our deepest hearts desire; win, that's all we have to do. So every single fan, whenever you are, summon every ounce of your passion and drive them to win.

I can assure you he was and still is an Everton supporter, but he also loves the City of Liverpool. In the 1960s, he lived in a flat in London, because if you wanted
to make it in showbiz, that was the place to be.

In 1965, when Liverpool played Leeds Utd in the FA Cup Final, he opened up his flat to friends and family to stay over, then going to a London Hotel on the Saturday morning to get tickets for guys who needed them.

In 1966, Everton v Sheffield Wednesday in the FA Cup Final, he did the same.

How do I know this? Because a very good friend of mine was there.

His torpedoing of King's Dock, the relentless 24/7 search that ended with Russian gangsters who let him stay as chairman, his pocketing of tens of millions having not put a bean in, and then his presiding over the last 7 years.

And now potentially our final weekend, none of it matters, cos people hear him speak and think 'You know, he's not so bad'.

It really does show how far charm can get you. Tony Blair, Rolf Harris, Saruman, eat your heart out, you've got nothing on our chap.

The End.

I can't believe we are 3/1 to stay up. If we do, it will be because either Leicester or Leeds (by 3 or more) don't win. Without a recognised striker (or one that score goals), we will struggle to beat Bournemouth so I think we'll be relying on results elsewhere.

Because of the above, I rate us as no more than 6/4 to stay up myself. I really hope I'm wrong and we win 3-0, but this is Everton and we know it's not going to be as easy as that.

Bets alter the prices and the only explanation I can come up with is everyone wants to back Everton and nobody Bournemouth.

Although the other day we were 2/5 and are now 1/2 and Bournemouth were 11/2 and are now 6/1 so maybe nobody wants to bet on the game, who knows.

Pardon Moi – it's been 30 years since I dabbled in French.

I was struck listening to podcasts today that non-Evertonians see us as having the best fixture of the three.

And they're right. If we were facing Spurs or West Ham, we'd feel worse.

Then there's the fact that, of all the possible outcomes, the majority are in our favour.

We're favourite to stay up now for very good reason.

I still think the odds on a draw or Bournemouth win are generous, but I'm a natural pessimist when it comes to Everton.

I'm with the bookies, mate. I honestly think Bournemouth will have no interest in trying to beat us. They will get in, play the game and get out.

For fuck's sake, though, having to rely on beating Bournemouth, a club who have probably spent as much time in the top division as we've spent out of it, to stay up.

The sentimentality and parochial attitudes that figure hugely in Liverpool, he massages and cajoles, playing supporters like a virtuoso. A few references to glories past and his devotion to the cause covers a multitude of sins… as long as we're not in danger!!

Words are hugely powerful – Churchill, Shakespeare and more recently Donald Trump grasped this. Tell people what they want to hear and they trot along like so many sheep.

The only reason protest has jumped from forums to the terraces is the real threat of relegation. If the usual mid-table non-entity status had prevailed, there wouldn't be a peep at Goodison.

My guess is he will see survival as a means to mend fences with the majority and carry on. (I said 'the majority' – not the handful here – that ain't ever going to happen!)

I think Kenwright has more in common with Trump, especially the repeated lies, than Shakespeare and Churchill — and even Churchill was swerved in the first election after the Second World War.

A lot of truth in what you say. I'm in the handful though.

I think you are correct about Kenwright's mentality, but the tide has turned for the majority of fans. They have seen almost 30 years without a trophy and continued decline throughout that time and have had enough, like I have.

A once great club is now a nonentity.

I can see him now post survival getting the photographer to snap him, Moshiri and the new investors beaming from ear to ear.

His quote will be "The only way is up! We've had tough times but together we've come through, as they say what doesn't kill you makes you stronger!! It's all behind us now. Let's join with our marvellous new investors and bring the good times back. UP THE TOFFEES!"

The sound of people lapping it up will echo around the north-west and beyond.

I think only a handful will lap up that speech, and you never left any spaces in the speech where he lets the tears flow, coughs, gets his hankie out etc, etc.

I think Moshiri has realised he was conned by Kenwright. He hasn't been near Goodison for 18 months and the last game they both attended, away in London, they sat apart. I think that relationship is over.

I don't like the sound of these new investors either. Kenwright has finished Everton as a top club.

I can see him now on the second tears pause "We are a family of Evertonians. These silly squabbles are a thing of the past so I invite every Evertonian to join with me in a rendition of YNWA. sorry I meant If You Know Your History. Alright fellows, here they come all the people who've made this club great let's give them a round of applause: Lil' Miss Dynamite, Sharpy, Prenno, Tony Bellew, Wazza, Unsie, Jose Baxter, Moysey, Philip Green, Richard Dodd. welcome back."

Meanwhile deep in the depths of Goodison Park heavily armed security guards have Stubbs and Southall and Tony Marsh in headlocks.

We're favourites to beat Bournemouth and a fabulous 3/1 to get relegated. I'd be all over those odds if I thought we were going down.

First thing is to take your gaze away from the performative psychodrama that is Everton online and look at the percentages. We're two points ahead of the other two and we're playing at home. The other two are playing stronger teams than we are. Their back fours are both as open as a barn door. You could make a case that our defence is (relatively) more solid than both the other teams. Therefore both those teams are more likely to concede goals than us, and they must win. I'd be surprised if Spurs don't get a couple of goals at Leeds and West Ham will have players looking to get into the team for a final. No reason to believe they'd be 'on the beach' any more/less than Bournemouth.

Of course, the unexpected can happen on the final day, but the bookies make their living on consistent, hard probability. I work with people all over the country and beyond - everybody is telling me we'll stay up and I know them well enough to know they're not just being nice.

So that's why I think the bookies have the markets this way. You have to play with the cold detachment that they use.

The only bet I'd think about for Sunday is that none of the three teams will win.

Hope that's useful.

And you'll be accepting it just as much as those fictitious fans you sneeringly identify as lapping it up.

In fairness to Barry, there always have been and still are fans who do "lap it up," even on ToffeeWeb.

I'd like to think Barry is wrong and that the majority won't get snowed again but, between wheeling out his sporadic "illness" to gain sympathy, and capitalizing on emotional moments, Kenwright does have a stellar record for weasling himself out of trouble.

I don't believe that it could possibly happen because nobody is that stupid. I've asked many times and never been answered but what do fans like Barry actually do to NOT accept what the so-called Happy Clappers do?

An unfavorable result will bring in a tsunami that will take years to clear up the damage caused, and will result in rebuilding and repairs to the remaining structures, from the Owner and his 'New Board of Directors'. Some of the repairs could take more than 1 year to rebuild, with other repairs in place in a couple of months.

Living in Canada, we get a lot of news from The States, especially about 1 ex-president
who seems to get an awful lot of support with his baseball cap motif, so I went and got one of my own, instead of MAGA, it is a royal blue baseball cap with MEGA in white lettering. instead.

Going into hiding until after the game.

Us-33 points (-24); Leeds-31 points (-27); Leicester-31 points (-18). 1 game left to play.

Everton possible outcomes

1. Win

2. Draw

3. Lose

#1 result (Please God, you still owe me one) eliminates all other possible outcomes. We're safe. Leeds and Leicester are down.

#2 result, and:

a.) Leeds and Leicester both either draw or lose. We're safe. Leeds and Leicester are down.

b.) Leeds and Leicester win. Leicester safe on GD. Leeds and us are down.

c.) Leeds wins by 3 or more goals and Leicester doesn't win. Leeds safe either by GD or GF. Leicester and us are down.

#3 result, and:

a.) Leeds and Leicester both either draw or lose. We're safe. Leeds and Leicester are down.

b.) Leeds and Leicester win. Leicester safe on GD. Leeds and us are down.

c.) Leeds wins by 3 or more goals and Leicester doesn't win. Leeds is safe either by GD or GF. Leicester and us are down.

Setting The Odds

We win, we stay up. But we might draw or lose and STILL stay up.

Both Leeds and Leicester MUST win to stay up. If they draw or lose, they're down, regardless of our result.

So we have the most result-possibilities that could see us safe, Leeds has the fewest, and the odds are set accordingly.

The thing that surprises me is that all bookies seem to have us odds-on favourites to beat Bournemouth. Clearly they are not known for sentimentality so I wonder why – given recent form?

There are lots of people who think we won't beat them – all the pressure is on us and they will know it.

Around 6 pm on Sunday, Evertonians will be either delirious or distraught!

Our problem is turning draws against these teams into wins and that is because of our lack of fire power as our inablity to keep a clean sheet or hold onto a lead. As such, what worries me most about a Sunday is that we will draw.

God knows who we will have upfront on Sunday but whoever it is is going to need to up their game considerably to give us a chance of winning because we've only managed one clean sheet in the previous 10 games too.

Somebody is using rubber nails. If only I knew what will happen. 2 more sleeps before we know.

Posting for the sake of posting. Hell is supporting Everton.

Whatever happens, I just wish it was Monday!

UTFT

Bearing in mind I'm pretty certain it was you who said that Leeds were nailed on to beat West Ham, after West Ham qualified for the Mickey Mouse European final.

Don't even worry, it will be a very calm Sunday. By half-time, we will be 2-0 up, the other two will be 2-0 down, and the second halves will play out as boring lifeless affairs with only the odd "ole" to remind us the game is going on.

Anything is possible... it's football... it's unpredictable...

Everton will win though!

Sean seemed to be as amused as me.

Everton "don't get" succession planning – obviously – hence our must-win last match to "achieve" our lowest-ever points tally to bizarrely escape the drop.

"Succession planning" – as if!

“Nailed On?” (are you Ivan Toney in drag?? ).

For fuck's sake… I hope you're not anywhere near the team talk.

There's a chance there'll be a shock result in one of the 3 games. What would be a shock result?

Moyes saying he is more than aware that allowing too much rest could see the Hammers lose their edge. "We want everybody fresh but we want them all able and prepared," said the Hammers manager. "We don't want the gap in time between the games to be too long.

"All of those things are coming into our thinking. We want to keep playing as well as we have, we've improved greatly in the last month or so, we had a really good victory last weekend, we won at Alkmaar as well, so we want to try keep that run going."

Winning breeds confidence, and as this is the last game before their European final, he will want to go out on a high. Very similar in fact, to when we played, and won, at Fulham in the last game of the season in 2009, the week before the FA Cup final against Chelsea.

This weekend, the Everton legions of supporters are ready around the World to will the victory over Bournemouth, else the results elsewhere that mean Everton stay up in the Premier League!

The Spirit today in work at Old Hall Street and across the City is superb. Everton will prevail and by merit.

But this Summer, assuming this weekend's results by Everton and the relegation teams, the Board and the club must press the “Stop & Reset” button to start fresh, to start a new era, reset the clock to real time but with a new board. The chaos of the last 30-odd years and the carnage of the last 7 years cannot be accepted.

Failure is not acceptable at Everton at any level of ownership and management. The club must get a solid board to survive and restart Everton FC.

“Whats Our Name?”

UTFTs!

Since that managerial genius Sam Allardyce took over, it was confidently predicted by you and others that they would get big points from their last 3 games. They got 1 point.

Both Leicester and Leeds have one 1 league game out of 13. That form doesn't lie, and they have only managed to earn draws by parking the bus. They can't do that on Sunday.

That being said, the first goal in each of the 3 games will be critical. If Everton, Leeds or Leicester concede first, then pressure is on big time.

Chris @ 257.
Don't you think that's what the manager will be drumming into the players - we must win because the other two will ?

Oliver Molloy: I think it's nailed on that Leeds will get something from West Ham after tonight's result.