O'Brien's crazy handball an early Christmas present for Arsenal

I've got everything crossed (even the missus!)

They don't like it up 'em, them cockneys.

You're a man, not fucking 12!

But Everton look worse. Too many passengers.

One stupid handball the only moment of note. Did both teams overdose on Ambien?

Alcaraz really poor until the very last seconds. It'll take a miracle.

The 1st team, when fit, is a match for most in the Premier League, and after only one transfer market. Having a squad is a massive issue, but this will take time.

Have patience, fellow blues.

We looked as flat as fuck.

VAR is there to help the Sky favourite, remember.

Football is bent, hello, hello.

I thought a bit more fight tonight and we could have got something. I don't think Arsenal were vastly superior despite their resources.

Worryingly, the subs added nothing which shows the paucity of options with Dewsbury-Hall and Ndiaye unavailable. It's not as desperate as previous winters but it's frustrating that the same limitations are costing us in such a tight Premier League.

We wasted money over summer on Barry, Dibling and the young fullback, Aznou. Dibling looks lethargic and leggy when he comes on.

Nine points needed from the next four games and we will be looking good, but the lack of a decent forward needs sorting first week of January.

Not sure what O'Brien was doing. I thought defensively we were sound and Tim and Garner were good. We just had nothing going forward and Charly was poor today. Barry and Beto did not have many opportunities and McNeil is just too slow.

I think we now know why Moyes has not played Dibling. He looked lethargic and looked way out of his depth. I thought Merlin did okay when he came on but we definitely need strikers in January.

I know Mykelenko has been getting bad reviews recently but I thought he defended well today. Just a few players short of a reasonable team.

Let's get it into context...

We are light years behind Arsenal and l'm just sorry I've got tickets for the next three home games already.

John @ (13) summing it up for me saying “Arsenal looked poor tonight but Everton looked worse with too many passengers”.

Definitely with some 4's 5's and 6's if the ratings are marked correctly.

We broke up more of our attacks than the Arsenal defence did tonight.

But still: was Patterson found in bed with Moyes's wife and daughter? Because O'Brien is a perfectly good centre-back, but we're crying out for width, and whatever his deficiencies, surely Patterson would offer more at right-back than Mr I'm Eight Foot Tall But Use My Hand Rather Than My Head. Dibling should get the start next week. Patterson should get a game. We need width.

Fuck. I need to walk, because that performance has pissed me off.

I didn't get the lack of pace. It was like watching Reidy in that veterans game v Roma. Yeah, McNeil is slower than Ndyiae but not like snail slow surely?

Both teams seemed to have a strategy of standing off and doing nothing then appealing for a penalty on the rare occasion that the ball got into the box.

Until we get pace out wide, and I include the fullbacks in this, because Mykolenko and O'Brien absolutely do my head in at right and left side, and a proper striker, one that has a brain and a bit of beef on him, then we might as well forget Top 12.

Scene is set. 52,000 thousand, a state-of-the-art new stadium and a shockingly poor team. New manager to start, then just about a full team of players required.

But I suppose you stay in first place on the referees decision with assistance from VAR, who I don't think even looked at the Barry incident when he was kicked in the penalty area.

Apart from that, with a weakened team, it was a decent effort, but shows how poor Everton are with certain players absent.

Hope the Everton management team can do something to strengthen the squad in the transfer window as every team has injuries to cope with, and we definitely missed the 2 players on international duties.

I'd much rather have McNeil stay at Finch Farm and start Dibling.

Missing 3 key players -- I don't include Gana -- Branthwaite is the 3rd.

However, if you continue to rely on the same players, week-in & week-out, and refuse to give game time to others, that's what you end up with. Football today is an 18- to 20-man squad rotation -- if you don't do it, you end up with favourites which kills the confidence of the squad as a whole.

Tonight was all the evidence I needed to see that our bench and extended squad is being isolated and confidence ruined. It's called inclusion... and all the teams that win things have had it.

Wake up, Everton, it's not 1985 anymore.

Your comments had nothing to do with the Everton v Arsenal game.

I moved them to the Premier League -- Matchweek 17 thread, where they belong. Please do not post off-topic.

Christmas 2023: Everton played 18, points 26, but because we were deducted 10 points, the table was changed to Everton played 18, points 16.

The club is now in a much better financial state, but the team haven't won a trophy for 30 fucking years, so I think we need to question why this type of statement was put out, less than two weeks ago, thanking the fans for staying with the club through our darkest times?

We only lost two creative players and, although we battled hard, we simply never had the craft to really trouble Arsenal, but we are out of our darkest times?

I don't like being negative but somewhere along the way, this club of ours has forgotten what professional football is all about, and the real reason what Everton Football Club, should exist for.

The problem we have is, after 6 years of no investment, we have a reasonably good first eleven and then the drop off to the rest of the squad is enormous.

So taking off Ndiaye or Grealish to give Dibling half an hour could turn a crucial three points into a draw.

Started a right winger rather than McNeil to start with. Made substitutions earlier etc.

Moyes has done a decent job since taking over but that doesn't exempt him from criticism.

He could even have replaced O'Brien with Patterson to try and give us something going forward. If we are going to lose, at least go down fighting.

Moyes will never change tactics, always safety first, score first if possible, then defend for our lives.

Let's see how he lines up away at Burnley. A game we need to win or, at the very least, not lose.

Go in for Guehi and Semenyo. Both would instantly lift the quality of the squad to Michael's demand for a 20-man squad as it's not 1985.

Guehi and Branthwaite at the back, Semenyo, Ndiaye and Grealish, would be a potent attacking 3.

Chances of that happening, absolutely zero. Nothing to do with Moyes either. You could put King Charles in the dug out, and it would make fuck-all difference. We are a mid-table club and it's going to be a slog to turn it around..

The fan base might be big, but the club profile remains way off.

Swapping O'Brien and McNeil for Dibling and Patterson would've achieved nothing. Fresh legs, but never going to have the quality to undermine a side that's been assembled for a billion quid.

We are under-gunned against the big boys.

I fully take on board that currently the "reserves " are not world beaters, but neither are any of the first team! For Everton to move on and become anything like "current "in the Premier League, the ethos of squad rotation has to be accepted by the club's hierarchy and actively encouraged -- I don't believe this to be the case presently.

You can always give reasons why you shouldn't or can't change -- successful businesses and people take risks and are proactive in their positivity toward such matters -- and state reasons why it should be changed.

This team aren't getting relegated -- there is some real dross in the Premier League, so now is the time to experiment and be brave under pretty much a stress free environment. If you just leave it and accept mediocrity, you can forget Everton ever competing again.

Managers will protect their own profile, so the key is to go after guys who take a risk, but with the acknowledgement of its owners and long-term staff that they are in agreement.

As nice as the new stadium is, that isn't going to make Everton great again -- a risk-taking club ethos based on player rotation throughout its entire structure, from under-7s to the first team will, because the winning teams already have it.

Moyes is an okay fella... but there is a reason why his record against the best teams is bad historically; strength in depth is not his forte and his reliance on square pegs in round holes simply doesn't cut it anymore -- not if you want to compete at the high end of the table anyway.

Look at Aston Villa: modern manager who has a squad system in place now, he has done an unbelievable job, but it's risky to a degree. They already are beating the "top" teams regularly and I wouldn't discount them this season.

Everton have been dormant for 30 years -- time to get with it, modernise the football structurally, and take risks. You won't win the raffle if you don't buy a ticket lads! Us as fans will always back the team after all.

The fella at Palace is not getting the backing he deserved, by the way -- rumblings abound... perhaps his aspirations are not being mutually reciprocated by its owners? A fella not unlike himself would be a start.

But unfortunately some fans still live in the 80's. Idiots.

Barry is the nearest centre forward to Brett Angell that I've seen in a blue shirt. He is awful. Two full-backs and a centre-forward please, Father Christmas.

Dwight on the right? Ridiculous, he can barely use his right peg, should have been on the left. It was obvious to a few I spoke to before the match.

Barry is soft and just doesn't get there quick enough. Praying for a load of decent business on 1 January. And the exodus of Blues fans from the 75th minute was just embarrassing.

The lack of creativity is worrying. Yes, we lost nearly an entire midfield, but we're forever being told it's a squad game... Not for us, McNeil is definitely not a replacement for Ndiaye and never will be, totally anonymous, every set piece rammed down the keeper's throat.

The only 2 players for me who came out the game with any credit were Iroegbunam and Mykolenko.

As for the forwards... words fail me, yes, the service was poor but the pair of them are atrocious. Goodnight all and Happy Xmas.

Today, I watched a team that was set up to not win, I don't remember us having a shot in the first half. We have a manager who knows a lot of the fan base will back him, knows he won't get us relegated, and knows he is just protecting himself. His head is so far up his own arse, the only thing that ever comes out of his mouth is shite.

Now people will talk about a depleted squad, but for fuck's sake, that doesn't mean you don't owe it to the fans to give it a go. McNeil v Dibling -- there should have only been one winner in that but of course the youthist won't pick a younger player.

And yes, we are missing players, but I guarantee that Portsmouth will give it a go when they play Arsenal in the FA Cup and their squad is literally awful.

Moyes will win a couple, lose a couple, win a couple, lose a couple and we'll be safe. Whoopdeedoo. He is one of the, if not the biggest reason we haven't won anything since 1995. What I paid to watch today was an abomination. Do one Moyes.

BTW, I might have had a beer.

We huffed and puffed but we were never going to blow Arsenal's house down. Plenty of heroic 50/50 balls won in unimportant areas and some throw-ins that we fought hard for, but Arsenal have about 6 players that are happy to attack the penalty area when given the chance; we have 2 and they aren't available.

They can all pass when under pressure, we can't. I bet MotD looked very one-sided as they had about 5 or 6 chances to our none.

Lastly, could someone have a word with Tarkowski. If he has to do one of his trademark bullet headers when the ball is hoofed up to him in acres of space, could he, just for once, send it roughly in the direction of an Everton player.

Allan @ 45; Well said, but Moyes is not the Manager who can properly handle a squad of 18 to 20 players, any of which who could lay claim to being genuine first XI quality.

So which do we fix first? Getting 18 genuine first XI starters? Or a manager who can get a tune out of them?

It's a bit of a cliche but the less choice he has, the less opportunities he has to dither and second guess himself.
Any sort of draw or win and... from a personal satisfaction point of view, he would've gone home to his tea thinking, "How good was that -- it doesn't get any better"

I am not anti-Moyes but some of his stubborn selection decisions leave a lot to be questioned.

Hallelujah! Someone else sees what I've been saying for years now.

Why the fcuk are we seemingly the only team in the league whose defensive headers always go to the opposition?
Pressured or not?

I agree with the other posters that, if you alienate the subs bench, it becomes predictable and it's not good for squad morale. Image knowing you're not going to start, week-in & week-out, no matter what?

First 20 minutes, we were doing well, but that penalty was ridiculous and killed all the momentum.

Saying that, how can VAR say that wasn't a penalty for us? Foul in every other area of the pitch, no matter where the ball is. Are they saying it's not a foul if you kick someone if they haven't got the ball?

It's open corruption or incompetence. If the decisions are so different for every incident, they may as well leave it to the referee, because that was what was happening before VAR.

Arsenal's goal was definitely a penalty – the only question being why O'Brien had his arms/hands up there??? I know you sometimes use your arms for extra lift but that didn't seem the case.

However, before that, I think about the 13/14th minute, there was an incident where the ball came off an Arsenal man's arm hanging at about 45 degrees angle from the shoulder and about 12 inches from his side and the ball hit his arm and a corner was given.

My thought at the time was it was ball to hand but that idea went out with the introduction of VAR were it now depends on "natural" position despite finger and shoulder joints, wrists and elbows.

There was also the Barry incident and it was said that VAR couldn't get involved as it might not have been in the penalty area. Why the hell not, they didn't know where the offence definitely took place!

Otherwise, we suffered from Grealish being ineffective and not appearing to have any threat on the right other than the occasionally isolated O'Brien and I thought that Moyes might have brought Dibling on at halftime for either McNeil or Alcaraz just to give us another outlet.

Arsenal did hit the post a couple of times but didn't overly impress me as probable Champions.

But we need to sort out our attack and set pieces as from corners it seems to be far post for Tarkowski this week and short to the near post next week. And never from set pieces or open play do we seem to have anyone arriving late which is always difficult for defenders to mark.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aujfxCKjGn4

@mackmcgowan316 - As an Arsenal fan how did we not get multiple penalties conceded against us! We were shocking!!

He'll be getting a reputation and, if it's at all possible, we'll end up getting even less than we do now which is five-eighths of fuck all as it is.

I saw a bit of that too mate. We can only have limited patience but do remember that Dr Michael Gaynes of this parish, former sports writer as he keeps reminding us -- but in 'merica -- told us or rather lectured us that Barry had everything needed to be the finished article.

He said the same about Beto in January or February.

People are saying Grealish looks tired and needs a break — he's been like that for the last 10 games, he's a passenger getting carried like two or three other players doing next to nothing.

January is going to be a month for these new owners to prove their intentions towards Everton's well being — it will be very interesting!

First foul in the match was after 32 minutes. We committed two fouls in the whole game. Ten back passes to Pickford in the first half.

Beam me up, Scotty.

Are you sure there is were only 10 passes back to Pickford?

I thought ‘safety first' Keane made that many alone!

I told you I don't do Christmas cards, Brendan, but if I did, I would put a little note in yours, mate, and tell you to read what Allan has written @45.

I have got up this morning with feelings of melancholy towards a club I have always loved, partly because right now my overriding feeling is one of apathy.

Moyes is the safe option, he's Mr Average, and gives memory to the most self-serving era in the club's long and once illustrious history.

He's doing what it says on the tin, mostly using only a fraction of his small and limited squad of players, and this suits him down to the ground, into the ground. (At least I can smile at those lyrics from Joan Armatradin!)

McNeil, looked like a player who hasn't had enough minutes, four months into the season. I'm glad he's training well but there's no substitute for playing and feeling part of the squad.

Alcaraz was poor, but it's not easy playing for a team with such little craft on the pitch against a team that dominates possession. At least the kid kept trying, especially through that spell towards the end of the first half when he couldn't do anything right.

Iroegbunam did some good things defensively, but he's not in the game enough at this level, and Grealish also struggled because he simply never had enough good players running off the ball around him.

Despite what some sports reporters write, you can see why Guardiola has got rid of him. He's still a good player but I'm not sure he has the necessary physical conditioning that is required to play regularly for a team that is challenging for honours.

That leaves James Garner, who I thought was our best midfielder. The club have got to be very careful with Garner, now he has got such a small amount of time left on his contract. He's getting better and better and could definitely play for most of the best teams now, simply because of his competitiveness, his energy, and his ability to keep the ball moving.

You and those like you crying out for more squad rotation, did you not see the alternatives last night?

Alcaraz passes to the opposition more than his own players, McNeil was a spent force under the Grinch, Dibling and Tim nowhere near Premier League standard and to think we paid £40m for him.

Then add to that he has 2 strikers who have scored 2 goals between them. Without our 2 main goal scorers, Ndiaye and Dewsbury-Hall, we not only lack goals, we lack any threat of a goal, I can't remember a shot on goal in the whole 90 minutes.

I thought apart from O'Brien, the back 4 were pretty solid but the ones in front of them offered very little. I thought Grealish was very poor last night and without runners like Dewsbury-Hall, he doesn't look half the player that started the season.

How we get more goals out of this squad without Dewsbury-Hall and Ndiaye who will both be missing for weeks will be a real problem for Moyes.

I read our CEO is suggesting that we won't be doing much business in January. Well, Mr Kinnear, if we don't get a proper striker in January we will struggle to win many until Dewsbury-Hall is fit and Ndiaye and Gana return.

I think the posters underestimate the quality and control of the opposition. Raya, Timber, Calafori, Saliba, Rice, Saka, Trossard, Odegard, Zubimendi are all quality footballers. All have pace and technique. Is anyone really expecting O'Brien, Mykolenko, McNeil, Alcaraz, Grealish, Barry to outshine them?

You can tell four or five passes before that the ball is going to end up with the goalkeeper.

I would ban the back pass to the keeper from outside the
box. That would surely make for a better spectacle.

We have to sign a fullback and striker in January, Branthwaite should be back, and play O'Brien beside him, which will give us way more pace, and we can play higher up the pitch.p

That’s if TFG do what is needed, to show serious ambition!

75 mins played
0 out 2 aerial duels
0 out 2 grund duels
10 out of 13 passes
4 incomplete crosses
3 final third passes
0 shots
22 touches of the ball
0 touches in the box

Grealish:

28 touches
1touch in the box
11 out 17 passes
0 out 1 threw balls
0 crosses
0 shots
0 tackles
11 possession lost

O'Brien:

Error leading to goal 1
Tackles 0 out 2
57 touches
15 possession lost

Barry:

6 out of 10 passes
0 chances created
65 minutes played
22 touches, 2 in the box
0 out of 1 tackle
0 shots
0 goals

Beto:

Played 30 minutes
2 passes
1 shot
0 chances created

Those are horrible stats. The players need to look at themselves in the mirror, ask why they can’t do better. They're a limited group of players, as the stats bear out.

Regarding Grealish not having enough players running off the ball for him — he's allowed to run off the ball himself into space for the other players to find him, which he hardly ever does.

He's quite content to stay on the wing and wait for the pass… then does very little with it. To give him his due, he used some energy appealing for the penalty we never got and he uses more energy arguing with the ref over little things.

Also, he uses that bleedin' ridiculous smile through the game, coming and going off the pitch, but he's doing next to nothing once he gets the ball— he's a passenger and a very fuckin' expensive one at that.

Pep definitely knew the score with Jack!

Before the game, I honestly thought we would get beaten by 2 or more goals, considering the players Moyes had to pick from. Remarkably it would have been a draw but for O'Brien’s barmy handball.

If it was horse racing or boxing there would be an inquiry into has O'Brien took a bribe to lose the game. I mean is he a closet goalie, I like the lad but that was crazy.

I'm in no way suggesting he has, maybe he had a few slugs of firewater before the game.

We were bad but at least we had lots of excuses, Arsenal were only a little better than us.

We have had the guts ripped out of the team which leaves us at the moment with a squad that is probably 15th-16th quality on a good day.

Either the players on our bench are not good enough, or the manager simply doesn't try and utilise the players in his squad enough? Take your pick.

I'd say it was the latter in my view, but I'm not saying I'm right. Although one thing I'd use to back up my opinion, is sometimes I get fed up watching our most creative player, getting totally isolated on the right!

That’s why I said that I think Jack Grealish needs runners.

Grealish should become a bookie then, Tone. He could then employ as many runners as he needed!

There is also a stat that Everton are 20th when it comes to subs making an impact. None of our subs has got an assist or a goal -- which says to me that they are not very good.

And if yesterday is anything to go by, most of the players who Moyes was forced to pick due to injuries and the Afcon, none of them had a decent game.

I have been banging on for weeks about why we signed Barry, Dibling, Anzou and Rohl -- all unproven youngsters. Add to that that Alcaraz had played for 4 clubs by the age of 24... that tells a story in itself.

I think that TFG sat down at the end of last season and decided they would go for younger players, which is fine provided they are very good youngsters... So far, the ones we have signed have been a resounding flop.

I've never known such a Jekyll and Hyde team as Everton: one minute, we look great; the next, we look done in.

I suppose we must remember we were playing the league leaders, but I suspect they won't be that for much longer.

Clearly the first goal for this side is critical. What on earth was Jake O'Brien doing...

Completely agree... We constantly play out matches which we are losing like we are 2-nil up.

What l find even more frustrating is that, when we do raise the tempo, we look a completely different side. No one at this club understands the importance of momentum. l think Moyes would have taken a 1-nil defeat at half-time.

I'm not saying McNeil is a world beater but he his definitely good enough to be getting more game time than he's been getting this season. But I don't think utilising a full squad of players has ever been one of David Moyes's real strengths.

Against us -- two shots on target vs 1.
Against Wolves -- two shots on target vs 2.

The corner: yes, it was handball. But the level of blocking off to allow Calofori to make the header is like American football.

Grealish definitely missed Dewsbury-Hall, both to give him the ball and to move into space for his passes. Creativity will be at a low and up front will look worse than ever.

Roll on the end of January.

Moyes reluctantly throws them on with little time left, a despondent crowd and no real flow to our possession. That isn't how it is done unless you want to undermine them to justify non-selection.

We stuck with Garner and Iroegbunam, they are growing into solid contributors. McNeil and Alcaraz have abilities that could be used if they were given regular roles and regular positional partners. McNeil on the right with no help from the right-back? Fuckin come on! That is a shit selection we could all see from the start.

Alcaraz needs an obvious forward target to play toward. Beto has been the better choice for his style of play. This is largely Moyes's responsibility, to find chemistry between the players we have and forge relationships.

Instead, he is either experiencing a lapse... or making an ill-advised statement for some January acquisitions. He is like that; believe it.

Why are we consistently looking for an experienced coach that has only reached mediocre safety positions with the clubs he was with? We need a manager with new fresh ideas, not one that has got lost in the modern era.

Other teams have injuries or players on international duties but seem to have other players who can step in, some even as young as 16. It seems our best younger players are either loaned out or given experience sitting on the bench.

David Moyes is a good safety-first experienced manager who is unable to change his style or tactics to suit the modern era.

This game showed the difference in the 2 clubs. Everton relying on a old-fashioned safety-first manager, and Arsenal backing a young coach in his first managerial position. Who came out best?

On the basis of 5 minutes here, 15 minutes there. He might need game time and some trust; under Moyes, he is getting neither.

In a normal job, an employee would get a warning for fuckin up. I hope Moyes gave him a bollocking for his childlike flappy hands behaviour.

Fuckin joke.

When Ndiaye was initially signed, McNeil was then moved central, in the Number 10 role, where he played his best football. He regularly assisted and contributed with goals from that position. He can be very effective playing there where his lack of pace becomes less of an issue. He's also very one-footed and simply can not play on the right.

Alcaraz has had his chance to shine in these last few games, in his preferred central position behind the striker. He's been mostly disappointing, with his poor distribution and his inability to keep up with the pace of the game. He's so careless with his passing.

If Dibling isn't ready to start regularly, then Alcaraz needs to be the one to move out to the right side... not McNeil! It's a sorry situation when we've paid £40 million for a player to specifically play that position, and he's deemed not ready. It's a damming indictment of our recruitment staff, and manager!

Glaring weaknesses have been left unaddressed in the full-back positions. Our two strikers only have a goal apiece all season! I know that PSR dictates how much we can spend in each window but I think the money could've been used more wisely.

We have some very winnable games coming up. Here's hoping Moyes can come up with a winning solution with the players he has available at his disposal. There's still enough talent left there to get playing as a cohesive unit.

I don't think Moyes had any options; Dibling would not make any Premier League side at present, but I would bet my house he was not a Moyes buy.

I just watched Villa v Man Utd. United brought on 18-year-old Jack Fletcher, making his Premier League debut, he looked streets ahead of Dibling.

I've just been reading what he said after the game and I like what I see, from a man who I think has got a very sensible and matter-of-fact approach.

He's lucky, I'm sure he's got a much bigger squad than Moyes, but from looking like a football club that was about to implode, then I think Manchester United might be slowly starting to turn things around.

Look at Aston Villa, I remember them beating Everton very early in the season when they last got promoted, and now they have got one of the best teams in the country.

Let's just hope and pray that TFG have got similar plans for Everton.

While I'm at it, Moyes drinking cups of tea in his press conferences really winds me up. No Premier League manager should look that comfortable.

Carthorses against Thoroughbreds!

Congratulations you're bow top of the leaderboard for the dumbest anti-Moyes comment ever made!

It's all Moyes's fault that we didn't win anything when he was playing at Preston NE? I think it's more than beer you've been imbibing.

Stu also forgets:

Howard Kendall Mk III
Walter Smith
Roberto Martinez - manager of Belgium and Portugal
Robert Koeman - manager of Barcelona and Netherlands
Marco Silva
Sam Allardyce - manager of England until he was caught taking backhanders.
Carlo Ancelotti - manager of Real Madrid and Brazil
Frank Lampard
Sean Dyche

Blackburn Rovers and Leicester City are the only 2 winners of the Premier League other than the Sky 5 (do you include Spurs? I don't).

In the 33 FA Cup Finals since the Premier League started, we are 1 of the 5 clubs to win it other than the Sky 5 (Spurs never even made the final since the Premier League started -- we have done it twice)

League Cup - 9 wins outside Sky 6 - 24 by them.

We can only dream of trophies. Will Villa crack it? Will Man Utd get back to Fergie days? We are too impatient.