Here we are, for the first time in over a decade we have a new manager. The 4th most successful team in English football history, the 6th best team (based on league position) in the most famous league in the world. What can we really expect this coming season? The new boss seems focused on a media barrage of positive messages and grand statements of intent; good news for us if he can deliver, but what realistically can we expect?
The old boss made us solid, gave us hope. A hope that often never delivered quite enough substance. Better league placings, a cup final and a couple of semi finals, but no cups and one very chastening Champions League experience. Roberto Martinez now has the job of trying to take us forwards, but realistically is it possible? Goal difference between 6th and 5th last season stood at 5, points at 9. The difference between 6th and 4th 20 goals and 10 points. How can the new boss change this and make Everton genuinely competitive in terms of Champions League qualification?
From a personal perspective, I cannot see an advancement in league position beyond 5th. The top 5 teams will all improve. To advance, Everton need to invest and not lose too many of our star performers. But, to put it in context, if Spurs lose their best player, they get £60 million plus; if we lose ours, we get £25 million. They could afford to buy three £20 million replacements; we might get £15 million toward ours. The team that finished 9 points and 5 goals clear of us will be in a stronger position, even if they sell their best player; would we?
Arsenal and Chelsea finished very close together. One of them has just re-signed one of the world top coaches, the other seems to be ready to open the long-closed purse and bring in some world-class talent to a team that hasn't missed the Champions League in years. Ominous for those chasing...
The top two are in a league apart; best hope we have is a token gesture of finally getting a win away at Man Utd!!
And what of those below us? Most will not be a huge issue, struggling with the same constraints that have held Everton back. Medium-sized stadiums with moderate crowd base. Even with bigger transfer budgets they don't have a squad of the quality of ours. With one exception: painfully, Liverpool have a squad that on paper probably should finish higher than Everton. They are also investing heavily.
With all this, where realistically can we expect Everton to finish next season? Will remaining 6th be positive or can you see the team breaking into the European places again? For me, this season has 7th written all over it. I would predict the same, old manager or new, but I believe there is a higher chance of a cup this year as Roberto is more likely to go for it — which ultimately means nothing but hope springs eternal...
Jim Harrison, Posted 24/06/2013 at 14:48:42
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918 Posted 24/06/2013 at 14:58:49
I think a lot depends on the teams around us rather than what we do. Liverpool will probably do similar to last season, they can't really do much worse than 7th and they're not buying anyone decent so will probably remain in and around us. Aside from pride, it is largely irrelevant if it is above or below us by a place provided Europe isn't on the line. (It would be typical that the one year 6th doesn't make it it's the year we're 6th although I guess we only have ourselves to blame for that.)
We saw how close we were to Arsenal and Tottenham last year both in the league and the head-to-head games. To some it seems natural that a bit of attacking footy or a signing here and there might bridge this gap then we'd be in the hallowed ground of top 4. This relies on Arsenal and Spurs not improving also. Spurs got their record Premier League points tally last year and didn't make it so the bar is always being raised. Arsenal and them will spend again, we probably won't. We have to hope that they not only buy sub-standard players (the only thing keeping Arsenal even in our stratosphere) but that they get injuries and bad luck. As it is it seems to be us who gets all the injuries and a lot of bad luck.
As ever, the top 4 seems so far away but just close enough to give you that slight bit of annoying hope. A cup and Europe of any sort would be a good season in my eyes. Hard to see how Martinez could improve on that as 4th place just looks out of reach.
922 Posted 24/06/2013 at 15:11:33
If we see football that is good to watch and finish top 10 with a run in the cups we should be reasonably happy, to expect more given our financial constraints is unreasonable and I don't think many fans are expecting much more than we have done in the past few seasons,
Although some are thinking that we will implode and be at the wrong end of the table, I don't see that personally. However, RM has to be aware that an evolution of the team has to take place and not a revolution as we do have some good players who mostly do the right things as well as some players that shouldn't be near the first team.
928 Posted 24/06/2013 at 15:21:53
Let's be honest, it was groundhog day watching us over the last few years. Yes we got results, and we were difficult to beat, but I don't want us to be 'difficult to beat' and a 'plucky Everton.' I never understood how a team full of Internationals on megabucks could be described like this in the media, did the last fella love the underdog tag too much?
It would be great to go to Anfield and play 4-3-3, just to see the looks on their faces! Gerrard and Carragher knew we had an inferiority complex whenever we played them. They knew they would come back and beat us at Wembley. We know Man U and Arsenal just had to turn up at home, it reminded me when I looked at fighters who were beat before they stepped in the ring with Tyson.
Sin Miedo football will do me!!
944 Posted 24/06/2013 at 15:55:44
I know the RS have invested heavily,strangely enough not were they actually need it and Suarez will pop off to Madrid sooner or later this summer so they'll be 30 goals down.
We on the other hand don't need major surgery our defence is fairly settled,if Fellaini goes he goes a loss yes,but not the apocalypse and his money should get us 3 or 4 decent signings.
We can all fill the top 3 right now in what order I don't know,but I think it'll be Jose with the biggest grin at the end and ol ginger might just be crying into his beer.
Lets look forward with optimism and hope COYB!
948 Posted 24/06/2013 at 16:17:23
One of our strengths has been continuity and that has generally created consistent results but if you suddenly ask players to start doing significantly different things you may well get some problems.
Now don't get me wrong: I'm not advocating not trying to do something different, the former approach had reached the limits of where it could take us. But don't underestimate the difficulty in creating a new style of play and how that could impact results.
But RM may surprise us all yet and play 4-5-1
967 Posted 24/06/2013 at 16:56:37
979 Posted 24/06/2013 at 17:04:42
I think (believe)??, that the first 5 places or so are already taken. Yes, the usual suspects.
What do I expect from Roberto this season? I hope we have a terrific run in one of the domestic cups, and possibly even win one of them (would obviously prefer the FA Cup).
Regarding the league, I'll be delighted if we match sixth, but cant see it, and I wont whinge at Roberto if we don't make it.
My feeling is we will finish somewhere around eighth, and I wont grumble at that especially, as I say, if we have a tremendous roller coaster ride in the cups.
I'm hoping to get to Goodison more times this season than I did last ( I saw us knocked out the FA Cup by an unfancied team from Rugby World, but where is their manager now) ?
Disappeared into obscurity as so many of them do.
984 Posted 24/06/2013 at 17:20:25
I do not expect us to go gung ho attacking at Old Trafford etc - however if we had got to the FA Cup Final this year - and it had been us against Man City - I reckon Moyes would have "parked the bus" and tried to catch them on the counter attack. Wigan attacked them and got what they deserved.
I recall one game in Sept 2011, v Wigan at Goodison, when David Moyes started without a recognised striker - he preferred to play Cahill out of position rather than start with either strikers that were on the bench - Strac' and Velios.
No attacking football isn't the answer to everything - but neither is "parking the bus" at Old Trafford, The Emirates, Stamford Bridge etc.And I am fed up going into Derby games with our Manager "bigging up" the opposition. For several seasons we have had players who could cause Liverpool problems - but our manager has chosen to adopt " inferiority complex" tactices.This is something Moyes will have to overcome at Old Trafford - he needs to be bold. Our new manager will it seems at least have a go. I would rather that than adopt the lone striker and pack the midfield approach that we have become accustomed to.
992 Posted 24/06/2013 at 17:44:06
Tell you one thing though,if it is 6/7th we will have a lot more enjoyment from the style we will play to get there.
996 Posted 24/06/2013 at 17:55:36
998 Posted 24/06/2013 at 18:00:38
003 Posted 24/06/2013 at 18:11:20
If it was all about money, QPR, wouldn't have been relegated, nor would we have finished ahead of the RS or a few other teams who'd spent more than us.
Man City would have finished top of the league, with chelsea second and Utd a distant third. We'd have beaten wigan easily in the FA Cup tie at goodison and promptly lost to city.
Of course its not all about the money. With money comes large squads, disharmony, egos, pressure for the team and manager, pressure to break the 19 less well off clubs down in each and every game. The instability wreaked by a new manager(or two) each season is very significant.
Then of course, there is the law of diminishing returns. Is a £10M striker one fifth the player of Ladyboy? Of course not. Are we better off as a club which spends less, but where the manager has vetted and chosen the players we sign, or would we be better off spending twice as much, but with the players bought by a "technical director" and the manager having to make do with them?
We will always have the potential to compete, if we do well and other, richer teams succum to the many downsides of being rich. Of course if they all play to their potential we have no hope because their squads are stronger, but as we showed once, the top 4 and entry to the champions league is not just a dream, precisely because teams don't always play to their potential.
Infact I'd say that this season is our best chance for a long time to compete for the top 4. I think there is a very good chance Moyes will fail at Utd. He has a dressing room to win or lose and has cleared out the experienced and successful coaching staff at Utd and replaced them with coaches who've won nothing.
Pellegrini is an unknown quantity in the premier league, and will be under pressure to get immediate results. Mourinho should win the league quite easily, but there is always an outside chance he'll fall out with abramovich again.
Then there are our friends the RS who are under immense pressure to get back into the top 4 and they'll be without their best player for all or part of next season and their squad has many poor players.
For us Martinez is not going to be under vast pressure and he will inherit a very good - if small - squad. If he can take that squad and add a little motivation, pace and quality then we're in with a real chance of upsetting the apple cart.
010 Posted 24/06/2013 at 18:32:42
There may be some painful days and more than likely we will lose more often than we have in the last few years but that's the nature of transition.
Of the teams below us I can see Southhampton maybe being a threat as Pochettino seems a good manager and it looks like they maybe making some astute signings this summer with Cortese's sizeable cheque book.
012 Posted 24/06/2013 at 18:40:59
It really doesnt matter who these "big 4" or "big 6are", do you really think we will finish above them?
I really don't think it matters who we bring in, the others will bring in just as good, or better players than we will have, but, nevertheless, I live in hope, and I want all of us to thoroughly enjoy next season.
Good for you for thinking the way you are, and best to all our fans, I just think we will have done well to finish no lower than around eighth !!
018 Posted 24/06/2013 at 18:59:26
I can see West Brom struggling without Lukaku, Swansea, not sure really, Europa League might knock the winds out of their sails.
We are a top 6 team for sure, I cannot see the RS finishing above us without Sewer Rat.
They have bought a load of players I have never heard of before, and to sign some Aspas bloke to potentially replace Suarez, is like signing Zamora to replace Messi.
020 Posted 24/06/2013 at 18:51:15
Dont think we'll be concered with relegation, we can forget top 4, so I reacon we can relax and attempt to play some good football.
Should be very interesting/exciting times, just hope that RM can get some early points on the board, then hes not under pressure for starters!
021 Posted 24/06/2013 at 18:53:48
It could go either way next season, but I do believe we have a very strong first eleven who can more than hold their own. It all depends on who we bring in: McManaman first for me and a good goalkeeper for starters. I think Martinez could do well, I just hope all our supporters get behind him and the club.
037 Posted 24/06/2013 at 19:30:12
When did I say it was all about the money? Did my representation of us being able to compete with Spurs and Liverpool although they will outspend us imply that? I think you might want to try reading posts before replying to them.
There is more to football than money... but... the most money buys the best players, and the best players come top four, and win trophies. On a day when further speculation regarding Arsenal's bid for one of the finest finishers in world football surfaces...we are linked with a former Celtic winger, who many don't fancy, and many think we cant cough up for the speculated four million four.
And by my reckoning... this will be the toughest top four in ages. If you think Man United or City will slip out... you are barking. Chelski, will be nearer to a title next season than this, and Arsenal will be better too.
094 Posted 24/06/2013 at 21:28:44
Of course we have better players than Wigan and Swansea and suppose we have to give him a chance, but I've got this bad feeling that next season might bring us around a 10th place position an not 5th or 4th. So how many of you would be happy with a 10th place but playing free flowing beautiful football??
I suppose if we were to win some silverware in FA or and League Cup well a 10th place would be acceptable. Because cups brings Europe. Then a 10th or there about place, would I guess be acceptable. But we will see. Who knows maybe he will surprise us all, and lets hope he does.
127 Posted 25/06/2013 at 00:53:12
128 Posted 25/06/2013 at 01:10:49
Middle table and you happy with that? I can't for the life of me see why the blues shouldn't push on from were Moyse left off. I can't see us introducing too many new faces to the present squad, so why would the team of last year suddenly drop to mid-table? That's the problem when new managers come in, they switch and change so much that before you know it you can't recognise the team.
133 Posted 25/06/2013 at 02:57:48
134 Posted 25/06/2013 at 02:38:38
I cant see us dropping much below 7th, after Liverpool the rest were behind by some distance. Its pushing to the next level that I cant see happening.
135 Posted 25/06/2013 at 03:09:56
142 Posted 25/06/2013 at 06:45:50
A small, in relative terms, amount of cash spent then and we 'may' have kicked on.
Was there no cash because, well there IS no cash, or did Moyes and / or boys pen billy think that given the fact he was due do a runner, decide that in all conscience ( I know that that word is more often applied to one more than the other, but it could happen ) he couldn't blow the wad for the next guy.
Then we have the 15 draws, they weren't down to money that was attitude, bad play and plain bad luck.
Nothing much will change, the top 3 might swop around a bit but there are 3 new managers there. So just like Martinez until the season is well under way ( late Oct ) no pattern can emerge.
Like I said it was ours to lose, we've 3 squad members to replace and they will, unless we are very unlucky be better than Mucha, Neville and Hitz.
1, 2 or even 3 'could' go for a big money total, I hope Fellaini is the one and only.
1 or 2 from the 'reserves' might be given a chance to be the ' It's like signing a new player ' player.
If all Martinez gets them partying like it's 2012 and just tweaks it from playing not to lose to playing to win
Jelavic, sans Fellaini and too much running the channels might even find his shooting boots and that WOULD be like signing a new player, half the Fellaini money saved at a stroke.
Until Hallow'een all bets are off and re-assess then.
158 Posted 25/06/2013 at 09:00:09
This time, I am going heavy on 7th as fear RS will go all out to restore their pride and will certainly outspend us in that cause.
Not at all a Roberto fan and if McGeady is typical of who he intends to sign, my money's down the shithole already!
202 Posted 25/06/2013 at 14:42:53
New manager, probably not much to shout about with new players, Fellaini gone and possibly Baines as well will leave us really short.
We have no money to buy new players so will end up with people like Alcaraz for nothing.
As for this so called 'sin miedo' football that people keep talking about as the only thing they really want - look where it got Wigan.
As someone else said above, the thing that wins you things these days is money. Plain & simple. You pay the cash, you win the league. You pay peanuts you get monkey's.
All this talk of people like Negredo is rubbish, when was the last time Everton actually signed someone who was a well known name? I don't remember one at all, apart from Drenthe and Van der Meyde and we all know what happened with those two.
How many of us had heard of Fellaini or Mirallas until they were signed? Exactly.
217 Posted 25/06/2013 at 16:00:05
Not sure about RM but am willing to give him a chance and it will probably take him time to get things as he wants them. It's hard to see there not being some sort of lowering of standards during this transition and I would be happy if we finish no lower than 9th or 10th playing good football and looking as if we can progress.
240 Posted 25/06/2013 at 17:20:15
If you read Jim Harrisons post you'd think it was all doom & gloom and we've got no chance. What I was pointing out is that au contraire, we do have a chance. First step is to actually believe we have a chance, second step is to work hard to maximise that chance, third step is to hope that lady luck smiles upon us.
Jim(037) - Firstly, I wasn't responding to you. Apologies, but I didn't see your post slightly above mine, otherwise I'd have been a bit more specific. I was responding to Jim Harrison, the thread starter.
Secondly, my post isn't foolish, or wrong. When we finished in the top 4, did we do that because we'd spent the 4th highest in the league? No.
You contradict yourself in your very own post.
"money wins leagues"
and then say
"When did I say it was all about the money?"
Money DOESNT win leagues. But it bloody helps. There is a rough correlation between spend and league placings, but it is only an approximation.
As I was pointing out, there are significant disadvantages to having a rich power-crazed owner who demands success and gets rid of managers on a whim, or teams with large squads of demotivated players. Sometimes those disadvantages come into play to make a rich team finish below a poorer one; something that happens every single season.
To be honest, "fans" who decide their team has got no fucking chance of winning a football game after comparing the balance sheets of the opposing squad make me despair. How they were ever conceived is beyond me. I'm surprised their sperm didn't just shrivel up and die on the spot; after all what's the point in attempting to compete when the chance of winning is so low?
Who knows where we'll finish this season. Might do well, might not, but lets not convince ourselves that we're on a hiding to nothing nearly 2 months before a ball is kicked.
272 Posted 25/06/2013 at 19:02:24
I hope your right mind you, but I think If you go to the bookies you'll find you will get rather big odds on it happening.
Baines is a key player for us, do you really think hes going to be here?
More money, champions league, bigger stage!
Hes got a very big decision to make.
New manager that is going to need some time to settle in, its very likely he will tinker around with the team for starters.
I think Martinez will be a great manager that will develop the club from the kids upwards given time, which hes going to need.
I'm not pessimistic for the future, quite the opposite, but I think you have to be realistic in the short term.
Top 8 in his first season will be a decent finish for me.
285 Posted 25/06/2013 at 20:18:09
Don't get me wrong regarding our likely league finish, I think if Martinez tries to use our younger players(duffy/barkley/etc) 7th or 8th is probably where we will finish. If he can make a couple of quality signings, we have a real chance of doing better.
I basically don't buy the basic premise of the original article that because the teams around and above us are likely to spend more than us(again), that our life will necessarily be more difficult and the best we can hope for is 5th or 6th. I think some of the richer teams are going through transitional phases and usually one or two of the richer teams end up struggling. SAF going shakes up the established order quite considerably, I think.
Moyes is a big unknown quantity managing with the pressure he'll be under. Pellegrini is new to our league, Arsenal can be quite inconsistent and spurs may lose a player who has carried them through so many games last season. I think we have nothing to fear from the RS. Chelsea are the standout team in the league, and I don't see any team getting near them, assuming Abramovich sticks with Mourinho.
If we look at last season, we failed to finish higher largely because of points dropped against lesser teams(reading, norwich, fulham etc), not because we couldn't beat chelsea at their place. That is a mental issue. Its a confidence consistency and motivational issue. It has nothing to do with resources.
I think Martinez is a more positive coach, but it remains to be seen if he can inspire and motivate our team better than Moyes. We'll find out whether trying to finish teams off is more worthwhile than focusing on defending a 1 goal lead. It doesn't take a lot of change to jump us a few places higher(or lower) and I think a 4th place finish is more achievable than many believe.
305 Posted 25/06/2013 at 21:14:11
Yes, money does help but it's no guarantee, just look at QPR. So what I expect is a more positive approach and some good cup runs... and, who knows, we just might find those elusive extra points and make Europe. Myself, I cannot wait for the season to start.
So onward and upwards – and a very good hello to all my fellow Evertonians. :)
312 Posted 25/06/2013 at 21:34:32
Could be worse I suppose, because he will command a big fee if he does go.
The problem early on, is that Martinez is nothing like Moyes as a manager, so how are we going to approach the games, will he try to use Moyes tactics, or change our game to how he wants us to play? Who knows.
I think its going to be confusing for the established players early on so the chances are that the results may suffer.
I get what your saying about the other teams being disrupted as well, which is true, so it may cancel out each others slow start! Lets hope so.
Fingers crossed for some luck and good results early on, it could make all the difference between a good season and a bad one.
380 Posted 26/06/2013 at 01:20:45
I am not trying to project a negative outcome, just trying to be realistic. When the season starts I will fully behind the team just as I am every season, going into every game hoping for a win.
BUT.......being objective and looking without the bias of a supporter I believe it will be very difficult to advance beyond what we achieved this past season as I believe that the chances of more than one of the teams above us slipping up is unlikely. As I said, hope springs eternal.....
496 Posted 26/06/2013 at 16:20:25
Everton are very very wary when signing players, and always go for characters as much as footballing ability. Something QPR quite clearly did not do.
Signing a player is so much more than what they can do on the pitch, so all the people talking about signing players like Loic Remy should look a little harder at the human element attached to a signing and take a more balanced view.
It's all very well having ability, but if you're an absolute pain in the arse, it's going to be massively detrimental to the team and club as a whole. We can expect a fair amount of 'dithering' from the new manager in the same way Moyes was seen to do (personally I just think he was very cautious and rightly so with so little money available) and not to expect a flurry of transfer activity at all this summer.
We might end up with a couple of loans, and maybe one signing but really that'll be about it. Even if we sell Fellaini, don't be surprised if we don't spend the full amount back on players. It's just not realistic at Everton.
504 Posted 26/06/2013 at 16:36:55
So the money doesn't explain everything.
513 Posted 26/06/2013 at 17:38:59
590 Posted 26/06/2013 at 20:08:43
I would think that finishing 6th would be a great achievement but I don't see us finishing that high. I'd hope that Martinez develops the kind of football, I'd like to see us play and a good cup run would do nicely. But until we can spend in something like the amounts of the top 4, Spurs and Liverpool, I don't see us breaking regularly into that group.
597 Posted 26/06/2013 at 20:37:23
Everton have as good a starting 11 as most sides in the league yet we always wanted to act the little guy role under Moyes.Knives to Gun fight
ethos being rife.If RM can get this team playing like we all know it can do and with some much needed pace added you just never know what we can achieve. Two or three players out three or four players in and we might just take a shot at that 4th place finish.As for the Red Shite they will lose the most important player they have have and 30 goals a season wiped away with the lose of Ken Dodd to Real Madrid.My money is on RM being the real deal once he gets drawn in to the passion and the spirit of EFC..
711 Posted 27/06/2013 at 02:16:23
963 Posted 27/06/2013 at 17:57:49
968 Posted 27/06/2013 at 18:13:17
Arsenal would suit Baines a lot better in terms of the style of play and the chance of winning something. The guy has too much class and not a big enough ego to go to Chelsea or City.
992 Posted 27/06/2013 at 18:36:16
003 Posted 27/06/2013 at 18:56:04
010 Posted 27/06/2013 at 18:57:27
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