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Are First Row and other streams in danger?

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Should we worry about this?

Press Association Sport understands the governing body – which agreed a new worldwide television deal worth around £5.5billion over three years to start with the new season – is in the process of requesting a court order which would force ISPs to effectively ban their customers from accessing www.FirstRow1.eu, a website based in Sweden.

The moves follow on from those made by the music and film industries, which have successfully blocked websites which offer the opportunity to download copyrighted material, such as Pirate Bay, under Section 97 of the 1988 Copyright, Design and Patent Act.

BT is to move into the live broadcast market for the 2013-14 season, having paid £246million to the Premier League for three years – and is set to offer free access to their live sports offerings to its broadband subscribers. Sky also acts as an ISP, and has invested £760million in their football coverage for the next three seasons.

Press Association Sport understands the Premier League has already written to the major UK ISPs, which also include Virgin Media and TalkTalk, to outline its plans to apply for a court order to block www.FirstRow1.eu, which are expected to be put forwards by the end of the month.

Should the court order be granted, the ISPs would then have to contest the application, or comply and restrict access.

It is understood indications are the ISPs have no plans to go against any such application.

The Premier League has for many years monitored various websites during live matches and enforced the removal of any streaming content which breaches copyright.

Ged Simpson, Cheshire     Posted 23/06/2013 at 11:59:05

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Patrick Murphy
708 Posted 23/06/2013 at 14:41:30
Ged I think that it is inevitable that the streaming will come to an abrupt end. I have always thought that Sky et al have missed a trick as the demand for live football is obviously there so why don't they give the customers what they want. For instance I never watch the DS live unless they are playing us and would happily pay for the privilege of paying to watch EFC;s games away from Goodison They show all the matches on CL nights, the same could be done for PL if the clubs and Sky were to agree to it.

BT and Sky are going to battle it out in the next few years as BT thinks that Sky has a monopoly over live sport and they want a bigger piece of the action.

As for the internet in general I'm not sure how they are going to stop sites from streaming live games as they will just keep moving, but of course they could start to punish the users of the sites and that would be another step towards a highly regulated internet with freedom of speech stopped in its tracks and users incurring a possible police record.

Ray Roche
730 Posted 23/06/2013 at 16:05:09
I'd be more impressed with ISPs if they were to turn their attention to preventing certain sections of society from viewing, among other things, child porn etc.

If they can come up with a system to ban us Blue Boys from watching First Row and the other live streams then I'm pretty damn sure that they can come up with a system to prevent paedophiles from watching the unsavoury sites that contain such content. However, there is probably no financial loss to the ISPs from such an action, unlike the problems that defending a court order would incur.

Paul Mackie
739 Posted 23/06/2013 at 16:30:16
I'm not worried in the slightest. If they ban First Row then something else will pop up to replace it or a proxy will be available. The same thing happened with PirateBay. It got banned on several ISPs and within hours there were workarounds. The only effect it had was to actually increase the sites traffic.

What, in my opinion, needs to happen is that the FA should lift the ridiculous restriction on broadcasting games at 3PM on Saturdays and just let Sky/BT charge per game.

Peter Laing
742 Posted 23/06/2013 at 16:50:47
What happens to the live broadcasts that are screened in pubs up and down the country at 3pm on a Saturday accessing the content from the overseas channels via satellite?
Mick Doherty
743 Posted 23/06/2013 at 16:36:41
Pay-per-game would be a good one, even better would be something like a 'season ticket' for ALL a specific clubs games (including Cups and Europe).

I used to have Sky but you'd turn it on of a Sunday hangover to be 'entertained' by Villa vs Stoke or something. Considering something like Sportlemon seems to have a huge selection of games being broadcast somewhere in the world, I've even watched the Toffees with Russian/Polish commentary!

ESPN, Al Jazeera, Setanta etc, seem to try and avoid having the same matches so if a provider, say BT, offered this season ticket kind of thing, you'd be getting matches from the different broadcasting entities but you'd only have to deal with BT, rather than having to subscribe to a lot of individual contracts.

Paul Mackie
751 Posted 23/06/2013 at 17:26:57
Peter: I believe that the pubs won the court case and are still allowed to show the games. I could be wrong though.
Ray Roche
755 Posted 23/06/2013 at 17:44:12
Paul Mackie @ 739


"needs to happen is that the FA should lift the ridiculous restriction on broadcasting games at 3PM on Saturdays and just let Sky/BT charge per game. "

Paul, I think that the reason Sky/BT weren't allowed to screen live games at 15.00hrs was that it was thought that it would have an adverse affect on gates. If Sky/BT were allowed to charge, they'd be getting the financial benefit and the clubs would lose out. Whether that has now changed, I don't know.

Paul Mackie
764 Posted 23/06/2013 at 18:10:03
Ray: I disagree with the FA on this one, I don't think it would affect attendances too much.

What you say about the money going in to Sky's pockets rather than the clubs is a good point though. I'm not sure how they could restructure the TV money so that clubs benefit from PPV without clubs with huge fan bases (I'm thinking Man U here) getting even further ahead financially. Perhaps put all the PPV money in one pot and just divvy it up between all the PL clubs equally. The larger clubs would never go for it though even though it would still increase their income.

Ross Edwards
768 Posted 23/06/2013 at 18:32:02
If they try and ban them they'll set up new ones. It'll keep going. No matter how much the PL thrash around in their little tantrums along with Sky and whoever else it is, the streams will keep coming.

We aren't in danger: If they tried to arrest every fan who has watched a stream in the last few years the whole bleedin' country will be in the nick.

Phil Sammon
769 Posted 23/06/2013 at 18:38:10
Ray

'Paul, I think that the reason Sky/BT weren't allowed to screen live games at 15.00hrs was that it was thought that it would have an adverse affect on gates.'

Good! Premier League football needs to start fearing dwindling attendances. The clubs need to start enticing the fans with affordable prices rather than safely knowing they can charge what they want and still get near enough a full house.

Eugene Ruane
772 Posted 23/06/2013 at 18:43:35
I'm certainly no expert when it comes to the interwebnet, but I can't see how any ban could be implemented.

It seems whatever block is implemented, some pale 14-year-old, with thin arms and specs like the bottom of coke bottles, will suss a way round/through it in a matter of minutes.

When I lived for a while in Sweden, I couldn't get the BBC iPlayer and it was as frustrating as fuck (specially with Swedish telly being shite).

When I tried to connect, something came up on screen about me being out of the country and the iPlayer not being available overseas.

Anyway, I got talking to a Scots feller in the office and he pointed me at a thing called Black VPN (or something like that).

He installed it for me and I paid about €5 a month to some company in Holland for it.

Basically it fooled the computer's 'proxies' (or...something) into thinking I was in England and I was sorted – live BBC, ITV etc

Hail the nerds I say!

Plus (just thinking about it) didn't that woman who had the alehouse in Portsmouth win her case?

From what I remember, she said she was entitled to use anything that was on offer in the EU.

Sky tried to get her on the fact that though she was entitled, she was not entitled to show their logo.

I think she said (or proved) that she was not infringing on this as she stuck a sticking plaster on the telly and over the logo.

Whatever it was, she got the decision (nb: I have NO idea if the two things are linked, just... um... wondering type stuff).

Mark Frere
776 Posted 23/06/2013 at 19:23:25
There's nothing SKY or anyone else can do about it and I support anything that can take money out of the back pocket of that Neocon scumbag Rupert Murdoch!
Ged Simpson
780 Posted 23/06/2013 at 19:30:11
Thanks lads - relieved.
Gavin Ramejkis
781 Posted 23/06/2013 at 19:34:20
ISPs will block certain websites from their DNS, for example if you try to browse to the Pirate Bay or other torrent sites from BT its blocked, if you use Chrome as your web browser you can always install add ons like Stealthy, switch that on and it punts your web connection as if you are a n other place than the UK and bingo you get a connection.
Robert Collins
784 Posted 23/06/2013 at 19:56:13
Don't worry there will be a list of proxies, when it's blocked just google "frontrow proxy" and you'll find links to the site.

They've (isp) have failed to block the piratebay, they'll fail with this.

Jon Withey
785 Posted 23/06/2013 at 19:58:11
I expect the ISPs can block traffic from specific IPs (ie. internet addresses).

But, they can just move somewhere else, which takes all of one hour.

Ultimately you can't stop people pirating video/audio. You can put your finger in the dyke by blocking some of the more popular sites, but they'll just move somewhere else.

Equally I doubt it is difficult for BT to pin-point who is watching illegal streams, if they feel like fining their customers. So it's probably lawmakers who will make the biggest difference, I guess they'll catch up one day.

Ognjen Mojovic
790 Posted 23/06/2013 at 20:40:53
Mick Doherty,
Well, i've watched Toffees with Arabian and Bulgarian commentary for example (on sportlemon), and those aren't languages that I speak.
Paul Ferry
833 Posted 24/06/2013 at 00:07:20
Eugene Interwebnet is old enough for this.

Bring it on.

Radio Caroline and all that.

Kid Jensen and Radio Lux under the sheets

You establishment bastards will not close us down

Up the workers

And Chicory Tip

Patrick Murphy
841 Posted 24/06/2013 at 00:55:48
That was 'Son of My Father' going out to all you pop pickers out there don't forget that Smashie and Nicey do a lot of Charidee work next up Middle of the Road.....
Paul Ferry
842 Posted 24/06/2013 at 00:58:11
Remember that Patrick, the little synth thing that seemed so cool when you were 5 or 6???


Ha Ha

And the bastards were from Maidstone

Now, didn't Middle of the Road have a hot pre-Abba blonde who I bet fancied Jimmy Husband

Patrick Murphy
844 Posted 24/06/2013 at 01:02:55
Sally Carr was her name, little blonde Scottish minx, not that I had a Schoolboy crush on her or anything.

I always had a thing about older women, guess what? My dreams have come true I'm now with an older woman, but it doesn't seem to match the dreams I had when I was younger, It's ok she's asleep now.


Some critics have said that it actually was Jimmy Husband as they were never seen in the same place together,


I didn't know Chicory Tip were from Maidsstone though Paul.

Michael Kenrick
846 Posted 24/06/2013 at 01:19:36
OMG: "Chirpy Chirpy Cheep Cheep"

Are you serious?

Paul Ferry
847 Posted 24/06/2013 at 01:44:18
Ha Happy for you PM

MK that's right - 'chirpy

'Last night I heard ....

Jimmy husband should have been in The Avengers

That blonde was hot tho MK, more so than Mary Hopkins

Ged Simpson
855 Posted 24/06/2013 at 06:22:18
Mouldy Old Dough - a classic
Keith Edmunds
857 Posted 24/06/2013 at 06:28:15
I recall a thread last year being taken over by devotees of Sally Carr. Chirpy chirpy...
Keith Edmunds
858 Posted 24/06/2013 at 06:31:09
As for Radio Caroline, I was more of a Radio Geronimo man (boy) myself.
Drew O'Neall
208 Posted 25/06/2013 at 15:03:20
This won't happen. The ISP's won't sign up to it. This isn't China.
Joe McParland
357 Posted 26/06/2013 at 00:20:31
From what I understand they were able to get ISP's to block the likes of music etc. sites like piratebay because it contained copyrighted material. i.e. music.

The difference is that the EU courts have already ruled that a game of football cannot be copyrighted as it does not contain a "work of art". The only intellectual property issues are the premier league badge and music, which if somebody clever can hide, then there should be no problem.

Peter Nowak
754 Posted 29/06/2013 at 18:37:27
I agree with Paul Mackie. It will only cause the Streissand effect – more and more people will know about this option and more and more people will learn how to circumvent the obstacles.

Besides that, Firstrow has a backup websites like this ready for action. It made them stronger before and it will happen again.

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