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Speed of Signings

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One of the things that irritated me most during the Moyes years was how long it seemed to take the club to complete signings, as well as how we often seemed to be caught on our heels at the start of each transfer window, as other clubs swiftly and decisively did their business.

There was often speculation among fellow ToffeeWebbers that this was, variously, due to Moyes dithering and taking too long to scout and decide on targets, Kenwright refusing to sanction signings until near the end of the window to save on wages, the economic reality of prices dropping as the window drew to a close, etc.

I don't suppose any of us can say for sure whether any of those factors were in play, but I think we would all agree that, for whatever reason, virtually every signing we did make was always a traumatic up and down and excessively lengthy drama.

Let's hope that this will change under Roberto Martinez. He seems a business-like character who will identify his targets quickly enough. Of course, it's a little early to judge as he's only just been appointed, but even if you ignore the rich elite already spending big, I noticed yesterday that teams like Villa are busy tying up signings of Bulgarian international midfielders.

Pointedly, the BBC gossip column also has a rumour today suggesting that Chelsea have stolen a march over Man Utd towards signing a defender they both want, because Moyes is on holiday and nobody is holding the fort in his absence. I would not, of course, begrudge a manager his end-of-season break, but that was another thing that often seemed to happen at Everton. Moyes would be away and such was his total level of control, that we could not take signings forward in his absence.

I would like to see RM conclude a signing or two by the end of June at the latest, just to show that we really are dealing with a complete culture change at the club. Time will tell if that is just wishful thinking...

Mark Boulle, London     Posted 09/06/2013 at 12:11:14

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Sam Hoare
550 Posted 09/06/2013 at 15:11:48
Good point Mark! It may be though that it is BK's unwillingness to release funds that is the problem rather than dithering on behalf of the manager. Will RM want a chance to see the players in training before identifying what needs changing? Presumably he will be watching all our games on tape for the last year as we speak to get as good an idea of the players as possible.

I think it will be difficult to know who to buy this Summer before the Fellaini issue is sorted out too. I see RM has said that he is staying but I'm not convinced it will be that simple. Hopefully not another Lescott saga.

Ross Edwards
554 Posted 09/06/2013 at 15:18:34
Moyes came across in my opinion as someone who was difficult to do dealings with. I think the Bellamy thing summed it up really. One minute he'd go ahead, then he'd change his mind, by which time the opportunity had gone.

I think with Bobby M in charge, we could be seeing more flair and exciting players being bought. One question: Where has BK suddenly found money from?

Colin Glassar
555 Posted 09/06/2013 at 15:22:13
He wasn't known as 'dithering Dave' for nothing.
Eric Myles
561 Posted 09/06/2013 at 15:42:52
Ross #554, I expect that Samuelson cheque finally arrived?
Kunal Desai
565 Posted 09/06/2013 at 15:45:59
Hopefully we will get the majority of the transfer business done by the time pre-season starts. I'd imagine this will only happen once the Fellaini funds come through, so it's vitally important and dependent that those that want to leave do leave in the next few weeks giving RM ample time to get replacements in. Lets get a good pre season under our belts and be ready for the new campaign, rather than going into it with uncertainty still surrounding players futures.
Sid Logan
594 Posted 09/06/2013 at 18:03:11
Good post Mark and I totally agree.

Some early signings would be a boost for supporters and would also offer the chance for Martinez to show he means business. Having said that I would like his first signing to be Baines on a new contract.

Personally I've always held the view that our lateness in transfer dealings was partly to get the lowest price as the window closes but also to ensure we didn't get involved in a bidding war (more likely early in a transfer window) and which I suspect, more often than not, we would lose!

James Stewart
595 Posted 09/06/2013 at 18:23:49
Agreed. I think we will make signings earlier this summer though
Mark Tanton
600 Posted 09/06/2013 at 18:23:13
This is an interesting thinking point, it's been on my mind for a few days - we might get closer to working out if it was dithering Davey or the club in general. Perhaps a bit of both. But I don't see Martinez watching and meeting Nigel Martyn twelve times and talking to half a dozen people who worked with him at length for a character reference.

We might shave weeks off transfer negotiations with a manager who doesn't go through bins, ask for stool samples and conduct a personal smear test on wives and partners before committing to 'talks'.

Kevin Tully
603 Posted 09/06/2013 at 18:33:00
You could say he was a little indecisive ;

MOYES: Usually. We went 24 times to watch Joleon Lescott before we signed him from Wolves. People called me ‘dithering Davie’ because I watched players so many times but I couldn’t afford to get it wrong. When you’re looking in an alternative market, you’re not going to find someone who you’re sure about straight away and is ready to come into the team. If he was that good, he would have been taken by the others. We watched Phil Jagielka a lot too. I saw him play badly for England B but we went for him. I liked Leighton Baines after seeing him for the England Under 21s. But neither player got straight into our team once they arrived. It took time.

Sid Logan
604 Posted 09/06/2013 at 18:34:20
Let's hope Roberto's belief in the Prozone Recruitment Module leads to things happening faster!
Al Reddish
608 Posted 09/06/2013 at 18:38:09
To be fair to Moyes, he more often than not got it right with transfers, and usually at a good price though it was a painful process to watch. I think we will see business done earlier this season as we seem to have at least a couple of million to spare and Bill is going to want to show the world how he is backing his new manager. The interesting time to watch will be January or next Summer.......that's when the excuses will start.
Sid Logan
609 Posted 09/06/2013 at 18:39:05
I suppose the bottom line is that there are two things going on when thinking about signing a player.

The first is to assess whether he's someone who's worth having.
In this respect I can't criticise Moyes looking at Lescott 24 times. Lets face it must be easier when Lionel Messi is the target!

Secondly having made the decision to go for a player there needs to be some sort of strategy as to when; how much; and how is it to be moved forward.

Some of this second stage may well have been in someone else's hands e.g. Robert Elstone's. This may have contributed to the apparent fall out between DM And RE.

Richard Dodd
614 Posted 09/06/2013 at 18:59:58
According to the Pie Eaters,Hal Habsi is already on his way across the M58-so no delay there! However,I think Robbie will find it just as difficult as Moyes to CONCLUDE deals as there is a reluctance to release funds-even if they are there-until the last possible moment.(Interest payments etc.)
Remember Fellaini`s deal was concluded `after hours`,probably because BK was waiting for incoming cash `for the deposit`.
So,given that the payment rules in respect of Premier to Premier deals are exceeding strict,don`t expect too many Wiganners to `be following their master`!
Dick Brady
615 Posted 09/06/2013 at 19:00:13
Ok so lets recap you want Roberto Martinez to make two signings by the end of June????? I can see a problem.

Roberto Martinez does not become Everton manager until 1st July. How is he going to make signings in June when he doesn't even start the job until July?????

Plus I think David Moyes is still currently Everton manager. At least he's still being paid until July. Do you think Moyes is going to allow Martinez to change things while he's still in charge?????

Personally I don't want Martinez to make any signings in June. I would prefer the following happen.

1. Martinez becomes Everton manager on July 1st.
2. Martinez spends a few weeks working with the current squad.
3. Martinez gains knowledge and understanding of his squad.
4. Martinez identifies any weakness in the squad.
5. Martinez looks for new players to strengthen the squad.
6. Martinez starts signing players in August.

Personally I feel it would be stupid for Martinez to start signing players before he's even started the job. Before he's even had one single training sessions with the squad.

We all want new players but lets be practical and give Martinez a chance to work with the current squad and assess it. At the very least lets give him a chance to actually start the job first.

Demanding transfers from Martinez a full month before he even starts the job seems unfair and silly.

Mark Tanton
616 Posted 09/06/2013 at 19:15:20
Dick this is not Moyes' club anymore, he's basically on gardening leave. He won't be making any decisions and he will surely respect anything Martinez now puts in place. I very much doubt that Moyes can be found at Goodison now anyway, he's Manchester Utd manager.
Jeremy Benson
618 Posted 09/06/2013 at 19:13:37
Dick,

I tend to agree, but how do you expect Martinez to spend a few weeks with the squad in early july and gain knowledge and understanding?

Firstly, I doubt he'll get more than a few minutes with each one in the first couple of weeks pre-season (some won't even be there for it - those who have international duties probably wont even have to report in until mid july I would guess).

Secondly, you gain nothing from looking at few training sessions with players who've been on their holidays for a few weeks.

Thirdly, with all the scouting and analysis of opposition, and having played the everton team many times, I would imagine he'd have a good enough view without even having to see them roll up to the training ground.

Most early pre-season schedules are simply about building fitness backup to match level, Nothing to see there...

Gavin Ramejkis
619 Posted 09/06/2013 at 19:17:00
Dick, Man U just signed a new right back, they cough cough haven't got a new manager yet either. If I was Martinez told not to make any player decisions yet because of David Moyes I'd tell Kenshite to go fuck himself with a broken bottlle, it was embarrassing enough listen to BK say his name in the press conference, he's gone Bill, long gone you soft get, he nipped down the corner shop on the M62 to get some cigarettes and he isn't coming back
Mark Boulle
621 Posted 09/06/2013 at 19:14:42
Dick #615:

This managerial contract situation is an interesting one - it was obviously discussed at length when Moyes left as he appeared to be working for Man United prior to his official start date, in that he was there assessing which staff he would keep on, dealing with the Rooney situation etc.

Equally, Martinez (incidentally, I forget who but someone on here mentioned the pronunciation recently - I was in Spain last week and am reliably informed the stress is on the 'i') has signed a contract and has been 'appointed' Everton manager. It may have a start date of 1 July, but I imagine he is already working. Indeed, we know he is because he has been responding to speculation about Fellaini and Baines. If Moyes were still in charge and Martinez weren't, surely he wouldn't be asked those questions. Football, in that respect, seems different from other lines of work. There are contractual start and end dates, but they seem very loose.

I take your point that RM might perhaps want to see first hand what he has to work with once the players return to training. However, as has been alluded to by other posters at some point, he is an experienced Premier League manager who must already have some idea of our squad and areas where it might be improved, in the same way you or I could probably offer reasonably well informed opinions about what positions other teams than our own might need to strengthen.

Mark Boulle
622 Posted 09/06/2013 at 19:23:21
I meant to say that that, perhaps, is the one advantage you do gain from appointing a manager with premier league experience. Had we gone for a Pereira or a Rangnick, I daresay they really wouldn't have been in a position to start making signings until August. Martinez I think should and will be.
David Holroyd
623 Posted 09/06/2013 at 19:15:24
We play preseason games all the way through July so we should get business sorted ASAP. The season we bought Lescott and The striker from Palace Andy Johnson we hit the ground running.We need more of the same.

Sid Logan
624 Posted 09/06/2013 at 19:17:47
Dick, I'm sorry but you're talking crap!

Martinez is already operating as Everton's manager. Just as Moyes is already operating as United's manager. We're not talking about jobs at Spar here! We're talking about people paid millions a year!

To believe that Martinez doesn't already know everything he needs to know about Everton is naive in the extreme. He will also know who he wants to bring in. If we were to follow your programme we will end up with last minute chaos as we did last January!

Mark Tanton
626 Posted 09/06/2013 at 19:26:29
Gavin you're right, it was rather uncomfortable when Kenwright chose, two or three times, to go all misty eyed and talk about 'David' sob sob. Martinez probably felt uncomfortable too, having to sit there and listen to his 'Meeeester Chairman' look like a self harming teen who is still finding it hard to come to terms with the break up of his favourite band.

Incidently, by the way, isn't Roberto's accent funny? He says 'Club' with a real northern accent but other words sound very Spanish.

Kevin Tully
630 Posted 09/06/2013 at 19:43:20
What we don't know from the quotes given by what'shisname, is who we missed out on while he was compiling his dossier's?

I also thought we signed Bilyaletdinov on the recommendation of Hiddink?

http://www.tribalfootball.com/everton-boss-Moyes-hiddink-recommended-bilyaletdinov-297881

Mark Tanton
631 Posted 09/06/2013 at 19:53:22
I think there must be a long list of 'nearly Everton men'. My memory fails me, but isn't Robbie Keane one? And then there's Graig Bellamy. Who else got as far as a medical or talking to the club? There's quite a few I bet.
Dick Brady
632 Posted 09/06/2013 at 19:56:33
We can argue all night about who is actually in charge of Everton right now. In my mind Martinez does not take control until 1st July. Maybe he could push through a transfer before that but in my opinion that would be very short sighted.

Lets say for example he pushed through a transfer for Victor Moses. Then on the 1st of July he trains for the first time with the squad and realises that actually he's got Ross Barkley who is better then Moses. OH DEAR ROBERTO YOU HAVE JUST WASTED ALL YOUR BUDGET ON A PLAYER NOT AS GOOD AS THE ONE YOU ALREADY HAD.

Now I'm not suggesting Barkley is better than Moses. Just that he or maybe somebody else could be. And Martinez should work with the squad before making decisions like that.

The Everton transfer budget is a very limited thing and should be treasured and spent VERY WISELY.

The only way for Martinez to spend that money wisely is to first work with his current squad and identify where that money should be spent.

If Martinez spends a single pound before even a single training session with his current players then I will be pissed. I don't want any transfers until after July 1st.

Paul Gladwell
635 Posted 09/06/2013 at 20:17:43
I see Leroy Fer scored again, him and that dodgy knee are going to end up with a few clubs after him in the coming months if he carries on like this in The U21s.
Mark Tanton
637 Posted 09/06/2013 at 20:27:51
Fer - so glad we didnt end up with that sicknote on our books, clogging up our treatment room.
Dennis Stevens
640 Posted 09/06/2013 at 19:31:11
Why on earth would we agree a substantial amount of compensation to get somebody released from their current contract ...... later? Even if our incompetent Board are paying the wages of MUFCs manager, surely the manager we announced as 'appointed' is in post with immediate effect. Hence the Wigan Chairman saying that, now Martinez has left, they need to recruit a replacement asap.
Harold Matthews
653 Posted 09/06/2013 at 20:35:34
We're trying to decrease the wage bill which must rule out the likes of Moses. What we do know, judging by the FA cup quarter-final, is that Martinez is well aquainted with the way we play. Lets face it. His team didn't just win. They absolutely wiped the floor with us. He'll know exactly where we'll need to strengthen.
As for likely signings. I'll bet he and his scouting network have more than a few surprises in store.
Anthony Flack
679 Posted 09/06/2013 at 22:54:40
Diame from West Ham as long as he is fit...
Eric Myles
726 Posted 10/06/2013 at 06:45:26
Richard #614, Wigan are no longer a Premier League club.
Drew Shortis
752 Posted 10/06/2013 at 10:25:35
Surely one of the advantages of appointing Martinez is that he has plenty of Premier League experience. He will already know the strengths and weaknesses of our squad well. I'm sure he is already busy lining up potential recruits, and he should try and get them in as early as possible so they can have a full pre-season and bed in. I can't see how much more Martinez can learn about our squad after a few training sessions, apart from their personalities.
Trevor Lynes
781 Posted 10/06/2013 at 14:58:57
Compared to our board/manager situation, the likes of Mr Redknapp in the transfer window is the Usain Bolt of negotiators... whilst we are the tortoise.

My issue with the tardiness of our movements is the failure to have sufficient time to sign alternative targets if our choices fall through. For example the Ofoe and Fer situations. Ironically we seem to be able to offload players and loan out with much more alacrity and efficiency.We actually loaned out four players including Gueye and Barkley, so effectively weakened our squad instead of strengthening it.

I am certain that Moyes was as frustrated as us fans and I'm sure that, had he signed two or three players during the January window, we would have made the top four.

Ryan Holroyd
823 Posted 10/06/2013 at 18:12:52
'Pointedly, the BBC gossip column also has a rumour today suggesting that Chelsea have stolen a march over Man Utd towards signing a defender they both want, because Moyes is on holiday and nobody is holding the fort in his absence'

YES, because Billion pound clubs are run like this.

The reason we don't sign players early is because the sky money isn't available until August.

Richard Dodd
939 Posted 11/06/2013 at 10:43:41
Eric@726.Wigan remain a Premier club until 30 June 2013,I believe.
Colin Glassar
945 Posted 11/06/2013 at 11:33:34
Dick, that was the big problem with Moyes, he waited and waited and dithered and dithered until it was too late in many cases. Martinez is a prem manager who has studied Everton over the seasons so he should have a decent idea about who's who in the club. Despite the fact that Moyes is still on the payroll (disgraceful) he has gone. In fact, he went before the Chelsea game in mind if not in body.
I expect our first signing (Alcaraz?) this week or next. The new players need to be on the pre season tours not in August ffs!!
P. S. We are supposed to have a BoD's who can handle transfers aren't we?
Steve Bryant
971 Posted 11/06/2013 at 13:23:00
HOLD THE PHONE A MINUTE HERE.....

So you want Martinez to make a couple of signings by the end of June, just to prove a point????!!!!! Is that a sensible strategy to move our club forward???!!!! Get real mate.

Martinez will sign players when he is good and ready – and not before. Let the guy get on with his job.

Incidentally, if there is a need for a 'culture change' as you so put it, you can't change the culture of a club overnight. It takes time. Martinez and his backroom staff need time to bed in. Honestly... this country...

John Jones
982 Posted 11/06/2013 at 13:39:54
I think he might take is time.

What is the point of signing a player then thinking shit a had this lad in the ressies what a waste of money.

McAleny for instance 10 goals in 11 games coming back from injury.
does he just neeed a chance? Or should Martinez just go and buy? Moses?

Barkley we all think he is good enough, does he need a run of games or Martinez go and buy a attcking Midfielder?

Lundstrum Will he get a chance.

Kennendy is another one rave review's for the U21's never got a look in does Martinez go and buy McManaman?

Hey if it is the 21st July and Martinez pays £20 Million for a striker and turns round and said "I looked at the squad and there are players who 18,19,20,21 years old that good enough for the sqaud but we needed a striker"

What would your thought be?


James Marshall
984 Posted 11/06/2013 at 14:20:12
Regarding the Moyes thing - not that it's any concern of ours, but didn't he take a holiday because his contract with Utd doesn't start till July? Seems to me you're giving him a hard time about a job he hasn't actually started yet.

Same goes for Martinez, right?

Don't be surprised if things this summer are just as traumatic where signings are concerned - I can't see how we will suddenly have millions of pounds to spend willy-nilly on players, regardless of the TV deal and possible sale of Fellaini.

Chances are we'll pick up a couple of Wigan players (God help us) for about £10m the pair and that will be it.

All these links with players in the papers are mostly bullshit to fill column inches (we all know that), and various talk of this player & that is fabtasy manager stuff.

I'll wager we don't sign anyone until July at the very earliest.

James Marshall
986 Posted 11/06/2013 at 14:28:14
One other thing - if (and it's a big if) we're selling Fellaini to fund moves for others players, that deal is going to have to be complete before we buy anyone, so...

Until Fellaini is sold, how can we make moves for players if we don't have any cash?

These are massive multi million pound transactions for human beings - it's like the slave trade in some ways and not the same as buying a car off eBay for example. There's a lot to consider when you're spending millions of pounds of someone elses money and the way people talk about transfers seems to miss these points.

Just because £5m sounds like a low amount in the grand scheme of football transfers, doesn't stop it being £5m, which is a LOT of money to throw away without doing your research first!

Jack Cross
993 Posted 11/06/2013 at 15:08:46
I've not read anywhere were BK as said he as money available to buy players. What he as said (guaranteed) that if we were to sell a top player whoever that maybe then the new coach will receive 100% of that transfer fee. That's pretty straightforward to understand wouldn't you say?

And before anyone mentions the Jan window (last). We didn't buy anyone, with the supposed money available. Well I think that was a load of shite. Just a sweetener, BK, said we could have bought Fer, one problem he was injured. How long were they following him? And now there is talk of buying him again. But he's injured isn't he? Has I've said a load of shite.

Jack Cross
994 Posted 11/06/2013 at 15:08:46
I've not read anywhere were BK as said he as money available to buy players. What he as said (guaranteed) that if we were to sell a top player whoever that maybe then the new coach will receive 100% of that transfer fee. That's pretty straightforward to understand wouldn't you say?

And before anyone mentions the Jan window (last). We didn't buy anyone, with the supposed money available. Well I think that was a load of shite. Just a sweetener, BK, said we could have bought Fer, one problem he was injured. How long were they following him? And now there is talk of buying him again. But he's injured isn't he? Has I've said a load of shite.

James Marshall
002 Posted 11/06/2013 at 15:53:36
Fer wasn't injured - he played the rest of the season for Twente without any problems in his knee. The whole thing was a load of rubbish for whatever reason - most likely because we didn't have the cash up front they wanted so we pulled out citing his dodgy knee.

Funny, he played the rest of the season for them, and even played a few Internationals - nothing wrong with his knee at all.

Christopher Brierley
016 Posted 11/06/2013 at 16:44:10
I always thought the reason why we didnt sign anyone till late on was because we were always waiting for that tv money payment so we actually had some cash because before it we didnt have a pot to piss in.

If Fellaini doesnt go then we will be waiting for the t.v. money again this year because I cant see us having much money before that date

Matt Traynor
019 Posted 11/06/2013 at 16:50:15
Christopher, that money is the flat rate that is shared equally between all clubs, paid in 2 installments, August and January. That's the money that is borrowed against, so it's not available in its entirety anyway. The other domestic TV money is the success money (end of season) and facility fee - paid for live appearances. Overseas money is paid at a flat rate for all clubs, and is paid monthly in installments.

If I remember, there were 2 years worth of TV money borrowed against. I don't know if they renewed the 2nd year last season.

Ray Roche
129 Posted 12/06/2013 at 00:18:07
I thought the transfer window didn't open until JULY 1st. But clubs can sign players who are out of contract.
Chris Jones [Burton]
131 Posted 12/06/2013 at 00:32:11
Another issue (apologies if anyone has already mentioned it) if we're looking to bring in 2 or 3 players on £50k a week then delaying signings buy 4 weeks saves us circa £600k. When you're impoverished as we invariably seem to be, that's a lot of dosh. And of course you can add this to what we save on stopping paying wages to Pip and them and we're soon looking at the best part of a million saved! Oh to have a fraction of the money that lot across the park appear to be able to spunk every bloody year!
Patrick Murphy
132 Posted 12/06/2013 at 00:46:13
It's not every year is it though Chris , its every damn window, having said that everything in their garden is not as rosy as you might think. Bill Kenwright must think Christmas has come early this year - half of the backroom staff away on their toes - players retiring - new manager on less dough - Finch Farm on a reduced rent - how much better could it get for him - Oh yeah that's right sell the prized assets on the 31st August and it will be the dream summer for him.

James Marshall
199 Posted 12/06/2013 at 13:32:13
BK doesn't sell people off lightly, nor does he do it for the hell of it. By his own admission he doesn't have the funds to compete with City/Utd etc so why are people on his back about it so much?

OK so he talks bollocks a lot of the time, but to say he wants to do things to deliberately make the club worse for his own gains is nonsense in my opinion.

It's not as though he's tried to sell our best players every year. Arteta left for good money at the right time, so did Rooney, Cahill etc etc. I don't think we've once sold a player just to make money.

We don't have as much money as many in the Premier League, but we compete on the field as best we can within our resources. Would you prefer us to do a Leeds and spend beyond our means for a couple of seasons in the sun? Be really careful what you wish for.

Daniel Whyment
332 Posted 12/06/2013 at 23:23:38
Re the argument about who is who's manager. Moyes can't officially start at Man Utd til July because he has to run his contract down or Man Utd have to pay compensation.

We have paid compensation to the pie eaters to buy him out so we can flaunt Bobby M officially as our gaffer!

Raymond Fox
096 Posted 24/06/2013 at 21:27:40
As far as transfers are concerned, it's bound to be a slow process unless you've money to burn, aka Man City & Chelsea. Robbo has Baines's & Fellaini's futures to sort out first & foremost. He's under contract & stuck in Brazil which to my way of thinking ain't great!

He's not sorted out his staff yet, not met his players yet, starts playing friendlies in USA on the 14th July I believe... bloody hell, he's going to have a nervous breakdown before the Prem starts!

This is why you're only as good as your staff, but as I say, they're not in place yet.

Trevor Lynes
104 Posted 24/06/2013 at 22:08:04
The money for Fer and Ofoe was NOT spent and we actually loaned OUT four players.

So why are fans writing articles defending the board and making excuses for them.

Let them spend the money that is already in their coffers since nothing was spent this year.

We have offloaded Neville, Hitzelsberger and Mucha plus young Bidwell has transferred OUT.
Gueye is still away and Barkley was loaned out last January for a period.

Without the SKY money we should still be able to provide funds for early business so that any new player/s could be bedded in before the season starts.

Money was supposedly available for the acquisition of Fer plus the loaning IN of Ofoe.

FFS stop giving this miserly board excuses.

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